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saint_n catholic_a church_n creed_n 1,395 5 10.7130 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18441 [A treatise against the Defense of the censure, giuen upon the bookes of W.Charke and Meredith Hanmer, by an unknowne popish traytor in maintenance of the seditious challenge of Edmond Campion ... Hereunto are adjoyned two treatises, written by D.Fulke ... ] Charke, William, d. 1617, attributed name.; Fulke, William, 1538-1589. 1586 (1586) STC 5009; ESTC S111939 659,527 941

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heretic_n do_v hold_v it_o but_o he_o rather_o do_v offer_v manifest_a wrong_n to_o doctor_n fulke_n whouse_v not_o 41._o to_o reason_n so_o looselie_o but_o rather_o conclude_v that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a be_v a_o error_n because_o it_o be_v first_o invent_v and_o practise_v by_o a_o heretic_n for_o all_o truth_n have_v a_o high_a and_o more_o ancient_a spring_n than_o any_o heretic_n or_o heresy_n but_o for_o so_o much_o as_o he_o have_v answer_v this_o whole_a objection_n sufficient_o in_o his_o confutation_n of_o popish_a quarrel_n i_o will_v send_v the_o reader_n thither_o where_o he_o shall_v find_v that_o which_o may_v satisfy_v he_o in_o this_o matter_n the_o last_o kind_n of_o trial_n whereof_o he_o will_v speak_v at_o this_o time_n be_v to_o consider_v the_o manner_n of_o old_a heretic_n and_o to_o compare_v the_o same_o with_o we_o and_o here_o he_o will_v have_v the_o two_o former_a condition_n observe_v to_o wit_n that_o we_o consider_v such_o quality_n only_o as_o 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caepta_fw-la 〈◊〉_d quidam_fw-la enim_fw-la altiùs_fw-la repetentes_fw-la à_fw-la beato_fw-la helia_n &_o johanne_n sumpsere_fw-la principium_fw-la quorum_fw-la helias_n plus_fw-la nobis_fw-la videtur_fw-la fuisse_fw-la quàm_fw-la monachus_n &_o johannes_n antè_fw-la prophetare_fw-la caepisse_v quàm_fw-la natus_fw-la est_fw-la alij_fw-la autem_fw-la in_fw-la quam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la vulgus_fw-la omne_fw-la consentit_fw-la asserunt_fw-la antonium_n huius_fw-la propositi_fw-la fuisse_fw-la caput_fw-la quod_fw-la ex_fw-la parte_fw-la verum_fw-la est_fw-la it_o have_v be_v often_o doubt_v among_o many_o by_o which_o of_o monk_n especial_o the_o wilderness_n begin_v to_o be_v inhabit_v for_o some_o fetch_v the_o matter_n somewhat_o high_a have_v take_v the_o beginning_n of_o blesseá_fw-fr elias_n and_o john_n of_o which_o two_o elias_n seem_v to_o we_o to_o have_v be_v more_o than_o a_o monk_n and_o john_n to_o have_v prophesy_v before_o he_o be_v bear_v but_o other_o into_o which_o 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three_o question_n you_o have_v what_o difference_n be_v between_o these_o speech_n namely_o of_o proceed_v and_o beget_v which_o question_v you_o say_v with_o the_o rest_n though_o master_n charke_n seem_v ignorant_a in_o they_o all_o and_o not_o to_o understand_v so_o much_o as_o the_o very_a 〈◊〉_d themselves_o yet_o catholic_a divine_n know_v what_o the_o church_n have_v determine_v herein_o but_o concern_v this_o question_n saint_n augustine_n shall_v answer_v for_o our_o ignorance_n cont._n maximin_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 14._o quid_fw-la autem_fw-la inter_fw-la nasci_fw-la &_o procedere_fw-la incersit_fw-la de_fw-la illa_fw-la excellentissima_fw-la natura_fw-la loquens_fw-la explicare_fw-la quis_fw-la potest_fw-la non_fw-la omne_fw-la quod_fw-la procedit_fw-la nascitur_fw-la quamuis_fw-la omne_fw-la procedar_fw-la quod_fw-la nascitur_fw-la 〈◊〉_d omne_fw-la quod_fw-la bipes_fw-la est_fw-la homo_fw-la est_fw-la quam_fw-la nis_fw-la bipes_fw-la sit_fw-la omnis_fw-la qui_fw-la 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the_o party_n use_v by_o the_o key_n of_o jurisdiction_n grant_v to_o such_o as_o christ_n make_v the_o steward_n of_o his_o household_n the_o disposer_n of_o his_o mystery_n for_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o her_o pastor_n though_o they_o be_v merciful_a &_o incline_v to_o remission_n rather_o than_o rigour_n yet_o they_o take_v not_o upon_o they_o neither_o in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o penance_n to_o remit_v sin_n and_o damnation_n neither_o out_o of_o the_o sacrament_n to_o release_v any_o pain_n or_o part_n of_o punishment_n enjoin_v without_o recompense_n thereof_o by_o christ_n copious_a redemption_n and_o the_o communion_n of_o holy_a work_n that_o be_v betwixt_o the_o head_n and_o member_n of_o this_o mysticali_a body_n of_o christ._n fulke_v so_o often_o as_o you_o repeat_v this_o untruth_n so_o often_o it_o must_v be_v tell_v you_o that_o it_o be_v false_a that_o the_o pope_n pardon_n by_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o giver_n and_o receiver_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o 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after_o his_o word_n set_v dowen_v in_o the_o section_n last_o before_o in_o which_o he_o speak_v neither_o of_o the_o desert_n of_o the_o live_n nor_o of_o the_o dead_a able_a to_o answer_v his_o justice_n for_o other_o but_o altogether_o of_o the_o mercy_n of_o god_n which_o take_v occasion_n even_o of_o his_o love_n which_o he_o bear_v towards_o his_o saint_n that_o be_v depart_v to_o show_v compassion_n upon_o they_o that_o be_v alive_a &_o this_o for_o his_o covenant_n sake_n although_o chrysostome_n seem_v to_o speak_v of_o the_o intercession_n of_o they_o that_o be_v depart_v which_o yet_o proove_v no_o merit_n or_o satisfaction_n for_o to_o become_v a_o humble_a suitor_n for_o a_o benefit_n or_o a_o pardon_n be_v not_o to_o deserve_v a_o benefit_n or_o to_o satisfy_v for_o a_o offender_n trespass_n and_o this_o benefit_n he_o give_v say_v saint_n cyrill_n upon_o this_o text_n unto_o the_o memory_n of_o holy_a man_n that_o sometime_o he_o forget_v the_o evil_n which_o their_o 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will_v ratify_v and_o allow_v in_o heaven_n above_o what_o will_v he_o not_o do_v in_o respect_n of_o the_o pain_n and_o abundant_a passion_n of_o his_o own_o child_n jesus_n that_o have_v yet_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n his_o death_n so_o due_o represent_v for_o the_o remission_n of_o our_o daily_a debt_n what_o can_v be_v deny_v to_o the_o intercession_n of_o so_o many_o saint_n to_o the_o chaste_a combat_n of_o so_o many_o virgin_n to_o the_o bloody_a fight_n of_o so_o many_o martyr_n to_o the_o stout_a stand_n of_o so_o many_o confessor_n what_o mercy_n may_v not_o the_o church_n crave_v and_o doubtless_o obtain_v for_o any_o of_o by'r_a child_n either_o in_o penance_n '_o in_o this_o world_n or_o in_o pain_n in_o the_o next_o that_o have_v in_o her_o treasure_n such_o abundance_n of_o satisfaction_n first_o in_o our_o head_n christ_n jesus_n through_o who_o gracious_a work_n all_o other_o man_n pain_n be_v become_v beneficial_a either_o to_o themselves_o or_o their_o 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no_o fault_n find_v with_o his_o sentence_n of_o the_o priest_n power_n in_o bind_v and_o lose_v gratian_n also_o declare_v that_o learned_a and_o religious_a man_n in_o his_o time_n be_v in_o diverse_a opinion_n about_o that_o point_n and_o other_o concern_v this_o popish_a sacrament_n of_o penance_n whereby_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o sentence_n which_o you_o hold_v be_v not_o account_v catholic_a nor_o universallie_v receive_v in_o their_o time_n if_o peter_n lombard_n the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n be_v deceive_v by_o the_o say_n of_o saint_n jerome_n and_o s._n augustine_n they_o be_v first_o deceive_v themselves_o for_o other_o sense_n out_o of_o their_o say_n than_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n gather_v no_o reasonable_a man_n can_v conclude_v and_o it_o be_v but_o one_o only_a say_v of_o s._n augustine_n that_o he_o cit_v not_o diverse_a and_o not_o only_o out_o of_o augustine_n and_o hierome_n but_o out_o of_o other_o writer_n also_o as_o ambrose_n and_o 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punish_v for_o their_o offence_n against_o such_o proud_a cogitation_n as_o saint_n augustine_n term_v they_o god_n have_v purpose_o to_o teach_v humility_n and_o obedience_n one_o to_o another_o both_o in_o temporal_a cause_n and_o especial_o in_o spiritual_a matter_n pertain_v to_o man_n sin_n and_o soul_n he_o have_v i_o say_v for_o the_o nonst_a not_o only_o institute_v these_o way_n of_o base_a creature_n use_v in_o the_o sacrament_n to_o attain_v his_o grace_n by_o but_o also_o have_v make_v man_n the_o master_n almost_o and_o executor_n of_o his_o meaning_n in_o the_o same_o who_o service_n he_o use_v so_o much_o for_o our_o salvation_n that_o he_o stick_v not_o to_o send_v his_o most_o choose_a and_o dear_a even_o of_o those_o day_n of_o grace_n and_o plentifulnes_n of_o the_o spirit_n to_o be_v instruct_v by_o man_n and_o make_v ready_a for_o his_o ministry_n no_o otherwise_o but_o by_o man_n a_o strange_a thing_n sure_o and_o to_o be_v well_o note_v for_o this_o purpose_n 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the_o least_o they_o disdain_v to_o submit_v themselves_o to_o the_o priest_n who_o god_n have_v give_v power_n unto_o to_o discern_v the_o clean_a from_o the_o unclean_a but_o i_o will_v thou_o shall_v not_o beguile_v thyself_o by_o false_a persuasion_n or_o some_o respect_n of_o shame_n that_o thou_o have_v to_o confess_v unto_o the_o priest_n who_o be_v god_n vicar_n for_o i_o tell_v thou_o thou_o must_v under_o his_o judgement_n who_o god_n do_v not_o disdain_n to_o constitute_v his_o vicegerent_n but_o this_o doctor_n make_v a_o whole_a work_n of_o penance_n and_o the_o way_n of_o recovery_n of_o christian_a man_n fall_n after_o baptism_n by_o the_o priest_n judgement_n and_o sacrament_n of_o confession_n of_o the_o which_o book_n if_o any_o man_n listen_v doubt_n yet_o let_v he_o be_v assure_v that_o they_o be_v both_o ancient_a catholic_a learned_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o saint_n augustine_n day_n whosoever_o make_v they_o and_o our_o cause_n be_v so_o 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book_n you_o vouch_v be_v not_o admit_v for_o saint_n augustine_n authority_n among_o so_o many_o great_a and_o large_a volume_n as_o be_v certeinlie_o know_v and_o general_o receive_v to_o be_v of_o saint_n augustine_n writing_n where_o you_o can_v find_v nothing_o but_o these_o book_n of_o uncerteine_a credit_n to_o maintain_v the_o necessity_n of_o auricular_a confession_n the_o indifferent_a reader_n may_v well_o gather_v how_o little_a ground_n your_o purpose_n can_v find_v in_o that_o age_n of_o s._n augustine_n for_o that_o you_o have_v declare_v already_o out_o of_o s._n austin_n upon_o s._n matthewes_n gospel_n &_o else_o where_o how_o plain_a it_o be_v for_o these_o matter_n let_v the_o reader_n judge_v by_o that_o i_o have_v answer_v in_o those_o several_a place_n but_o as_o touch_v the_o book_n de_fw-fr visitatione_n 〈◊〉_d be_v one_o of_o the_o two_o treatise_n that_o you_o cite_v as_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o it_o be_v not_o of_o s._n austin_n writing_n so_o have_v it_o no_o similitude_n with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o his_o time_n or_o with_o the_o stile_n of_o any_o learned_a or_o ancient_a father_n the_o censure_n of_o erasmus_n upon_o these_o book_n be_v this_o sermo_n locutulei_fw-la nec_fw-la docti_fw-la nec_fw-la diserti_fw-la quid_fw-la habuerunt_fw-la vel_fw-la frontis_fw-la vel_fw-la mentis_fw-la qui_fw-la talia_fw-la scripta_fw-la nobis_fw-la obtruserunt_fw-la nomine_fw-la augustini_fw-la etc._n etc._n these_o book_n be_v the_o speech_n of_o a_o prattler_n neither_o learn_v nor_o eloquent_a what_o shame_n or_o wit_n have_v they_o which_o have_v thrust_v upon_o we_o such_o writing_n under_o the_o name_n of_o s._n augustine_n yet_o you_o dare_v assure_v we_o that_o they_o be_v ancient_a catholic_a learned_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o saint_n augustine_n day_n but_o the_o reason_n of_o your_o assurance_n you_o spare_v to_o show_v give_v we_o nothing_o but_o your_o bare_a word_n which_o be_v sufficient_a among_o unlearned_a and_o sottish_a papist_n who_o ignorance_n you_o know_v will_v accept_v whatsoever_o you_o bring_v and_o therefore_o be_v carl_n what_o all_o the_o learned_a of_o the_o contrary_a part_n may_v judge_v of_o your_o impudent_a and_o shameless_a assertion_n concern_v the_o other_o whole_a work_n of_o penance_n which_o you_o affirm_v that_o this_o doctor_n make_v although_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o saint_n augustine_n be_v author_n of_o that_o work_n of_o repentance_n as_o it_o shall_v be_v easy_o grant_v that_o if_o not_o saint_n augustine_n yet_o some_o other_o ancient_a and_o learned_a father_n be_v the_o writer_n of_o they_o nevertheless_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o they_o by_o which_o you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v the_o matter_n in_o controversy_n namely_o the_o necessity_n of_o confession_n of_o all_o mortal_a sin_n to_o a_o priest_n and_o therefore_o albeit_o you_o set_v a_o good_a face_n upon_o the_o matter_n you_o have_v never_o a_o sentence_n to_o set_v down_o out_o of_o those_o book_n that_o be_v able_a to_o give_v but_o only_o a_o gloss_n or_o colour_n to_o your_o popish_a confession_n for_o if_o you_o have_v you_o will_v not_o have_v be_v silent_a in_o set_v forth_o the_o sentence_n of_o another_o beside_o saint_n augustine_n as_o you_o say_v and_o as_o i_o think_v of_o great_a antiquity_n who_o against_o they_o that_o be_v impenitent_a and_o neither_o acknowledge_v their_o sin_n unfainedlie_o before_o god_n nor_o study_v to_o amend_v and_o reform_v their_o wicked_a life_n write_v vehementlie_o show_v three_o kind_n of_o repentance_n one_o before_o baptism_n in_o they_o that_o be_v of_o year_n another_o after_o baptism_n which_o be_v daily_o sorow_v for_o our_o infirmity_n in_o say_v the_o lord_n prayer_n the_o three_o of_o heinous_a and_o notorious_a sin_n offensive_a to_o the_o church_n of_o they_o that_o be_v excommunicate_v and_o be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v without_o open_a confession_n and_o sign_n of_o humility_n but_o the_o necessity_n of_o confess_v all_o thing_n to_o a_o poor_a priest_n justly_o occupy_v the_o very_a judgement_n seat_n of_o god_n there_o be_v no_o word_n in_o either_o of_o those_o two_o book_n de_fw-fr medicina_fw-la poenitentiae_fw-la &_o de_fw-la utilitate_fw-la poenitentiae_fw-la allen_n and_o saint_n ambrose_n these_o man_n ancient_n somewhat_o do_v know_v this_o practice_n so_o well_o and_o allow_v it_o that_o he_o do_v sit_v in_o his_o paulino_n own_o person_n on_o confession_n as_o paulinus_n do_v record_n who_o behaviour_n in_o that_o divine_a office_n that_o all_o priest_n may_v perceive_v and_o all_o the_o people_n note_n i_o will_v report_v quotie_n scunque_fw-la illi_fw-la aliquis_fw-la ob_fw-la percipiendam_fw-la poenitentiam_fw-la lapsus_fw-la suos_fw-la confessus_fw-la esset_fw-la it_o a_o flebat_fw-la ut_fw-la ilium_fw-la flere_fw-la compellerat_fw-la causas_fw-la autem_fw-la criminum_fw-la quas_fw-la illi_fw-la confitebaniur_fw-fr nulli_fw-la nisi_fw-la domino_fw-la soli_fw-la apud_fw-la quens_fw-la intercedebat_fw-la loquebatur_fw-la bonum_fw-la relinquens_fw-la exemplum_fw-la posteris_fw-la sacerdotibus_fw-la ut_fw-la intercessores_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la sin_n magis_fw-la quàm_fw-la accusatores_fw-la apud_fw-la homines_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v so_o often_o as_o any_o man_n come_v unto_o he_o to_o confess_v his_o fault_n and_o receive_v penance_n he_o so_o weep_v that_o he_o make_v the_o penitent_a to_o weep_v also_o but_o the_o fault_n themselves_o which_o they_o confess_v he_o utter_v to_o no_o man_n but_o to_o god_n alone_o to_o who_o for_o their_o sin_n he_o make_v suit_n leave_v a_o bless_a example_n to_o all_o priest_n of_o the_o posterity_n to_o account_v themselves_o rather_o as_o intercessor_n to_o god_n for_o sin_n than_o accuser_n of_o man_n before_o the_o world_n for_o their_o sin_n this_o say_v paulinus_n of_o saint_n ambrose_n whereby_o at_o once_o we_o see_v the_o judgement_n of_o they_o both_o for_o our_o matter_n fulke_v the_o judgement_n of_o saint_n ambrose_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o popish_a thrift_n or_o auricular_a confession_n we_o have_v
punishment_n secondlie_o you_o assure_v we_o if_o the_o pardon_n be_v large_a it_o take_v away_o the_o whole_a pain_n than_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o god_n punish_v a_o man_n for_o his_o sin_n with_o the_o gout_n or_o any_o other_o bodelie_o sickness_n a_o large_a pardon_n will_v take_v away_o the_o whole_a pain_n thereof_o sure_o if_o you_o will_v become_v suitor_n to_o his_o holiness_n for_o a_o large_a pardon_n that_o will_v take_v away_o the_o whole_a pain_n of_o bodelie_a sickness_n you_o may_v do_v a_o acceptable_a deed_n and_o be_v well_o pay_v for_o your_o pain_n but_o if_o the_o pope_n pardon_n be_v not_o able_a to_o take_v away_o the_o pain_n of_o one_o scab_n or_o flebiting_n you_o will_v hardly_o persuade_v we_o that_o it_o can_v take_v away_o all_o the_o pain_n of_o purgatory_n if_o it_o be_v prove_v that_o any_o such_o pain_n or_o place_n be_v after_o this_o life_n but_o if_o the_o pardon_n say_v you_o determine_v the_o number_n of_o day_n or_o year_n than_o it_o 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