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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87828	Seven questions about the controversie betweene the Church of England, and the Separatists and Anabaptists, breifely [sic] discussed. 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true church? 2. Whether the Church of England be a right nationall church? 3. Whether are the ministers in the Church of England sent of God, and so are true ministers or not? 4. Whether is the baptisme of infants a true and lawfull baptisme or no? 5. Whether it be lawfull to be rebaptized or not? 6. Whether it is lawfull to separate from all the publike ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English church, because there are some defects in discipline, and in other things amongst us? 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our churches (steeple-houses as the Separatists call them,) and to build them in other places, because they were built by idolators for idolatrous worship, were abused with images, and dedicated to saints? By Immanuel Knutton, preacher of Gods word at Beeston in Nottingham shire [sic].	Knutton, Immanuel, d. 1655.	1645 (1645)	Wing K744; Thomason E25_20; ESTC R4217	31,540	40

SEVEN QVESTIONS ABOVT THE CONTROVERSIE betweene the CHVRCH of ENGLAND AND THE Separatists and Anabaptists breifely discussed 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true Church 2. Whether the Church of England be a right Nationall Church 3. Whether are the Ministers in the Church of England sent of God and so are true Ministers or not 4. Whether is the Baptisme of Infants a true and lawfull Baptisme or no 5. Whether it be lawfull to be Rebaptized or not 6. Whether is it lawfull to separate from all the publike Ordinances and Christian Assemblies in our English Church because there are some defects in Discipline and in other things amongst us 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our Churches Steeple-houses as the Separatists call them and to build them in other places because they were built by Idolaters for Idolatrous worship were abused with Images and dedicated to Saints By IMMANVEL KNVTTON Preacher of Gods Word at Beeston in Nottingham-shire Endeavouring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace there is one body and one spirit even as ye are called in one hope of your calling one Lord one Faith one Baptisme one God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in you all Ephes 4.3 4 5 6. London Printed by Tho Paine and are to be sold by Andrew Kembe at Margrets Hill in Southworke Anno Dom. 1645. TO THE HONORABLE COMMITTEE of Parliament in Nottingham Immanuel Knutton Wisheth all present hapinesse and future blessednesse IT is well knowne to your Honours that I endured a long and tedious bondage at Newarke together with my godly Con-captive and fellow labourer in the work of the Ministry M. William Hewit for the space of almost thirty weekes and how God wrought our enlargement by the worthy instrument of his glory Captaine John Needham Governour of Killingworth Castle in Warwickshire But at my returne to Nottingham from Newarke I found this Garrison much distracted by some Separatists in it who desert our publike Assemblies and the Divine Ordinances and have seduced too many to their way In my conference with them I found their Tenets unchristian and themselves pertinacious in them Their tenets were these 1. The Church of England is no true Church of Christ 2. The Ministers of this Church are not true Ministers not called of God 3. Baptisme of Infants is no true Baptisme therefore not lawfull 4. It is not lawfull to heare us Ministers Preach least they should by their presence approve of our Popish calling by the Bishops and because we preach in popish steeple-houses also because wee were Baptized in our Infancy but if wee will renounce our calling by the Bishops Preach at the Market-crosse not in the Steeplehouse and be rebaptized they well heare us otherwise not 5. Our steeplehouses ought to be demolished neither is it lawfull to worship God in them These their opinions too many in this Garison approve of and follow therefore I have breifely answered their arguments and published them that I might hereby excite others more able then my selfe to handle these points of controversie more fully and in the meane time I beseech your Honours to suppresse these errours offencive both to God and the godly least these Schismes turne to heresies endeavour to extirpate all Popery Scisme and Prophainnesse as the Covenant enjoynes you which you heard worthily explicated and urged home to your consciences in St. Maries Church on Thursday August 8 by that faithfull Minister of Christ M. Richard Whit-Church in his Lecture Sermon upon that Text Jer. 50.5 Almighty God establish you in his truth direct you ever by his spirit secure you and this Garrison by his presence or owne your designes with comfortable successe to the glory of his name and to the perpetuall happinesse of this Nation Amen So prayeth your Honours humble Servant Jmmanuel Knutton From my Study at Beeston August 16. 1644. ❧ SEVEN QVESTIONS about the Controversie betweene the Church of England and the Separatists and Anabaptists breifely discussed QVEST. I. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true Church Answer I Premize this that in this Church is much defect in Discipline and in the execution of it in comparison of other reformed Churches who in this farre exceede us Next I affirme it is a true Church yea the spouse of Christ Reas 1 First Because the Church of England hath the matter and forme of a true Church the matter of a Church are men and women in a right Logicall sence matter which is one of the causes hath this property it is passive for action is from the forme which is called the beginning of doing as matter is of suffering so are men by nature in the internall and reall worke of grace in conversion passive Phil. 2.13 such matter our Church hath it hath also the forme of a Church the forme of a thing in strict logicall sence is a chiefe cause which actuates the matter and perfects it it is a constituting cause now the forme or constituting cause of a Church is faith which brings it into relation to Christ therefore in Scripture the Church is called the Lords Spouse Vineyard House c. because of its relation to him this forme our Church hath it hath many true beleevers Now Discipline though it conduce to the well being of a Church to keep it in a sweet order yet it is not the cause of a Church it doth not give being to a Church as the cause gives being to a thing in nature a man is begotten and borne but the order he is tied to observe in his life makes him not a man but conduceth to his well being in his life so is Discipline to the Church so then our Church hath many true beleevers who by faith are united to Christ and are thereby made members of his body as the Separatists acknowledge and if they helpe to make up his body they must needs be Christs Church for his body is his Church Col. 1.18.24 Ecclsia est caetus hominum vocatorum Dr. Ames 1 Cor. 1.24 1 Cor. 10 32. Reas 2 Secondly because the Church of England hath the essentiall notes and markes of a true Church of Christ 1. One is the word of God purely and powerfully preacht profest and maintain'd which alwaies gathers a people to the Lord being so taught 2 Cron. 13.10 11 12. 2. The lawfull administration of the two Sacraments according to Christs institution Mat. 28.19 20. 3 The true obedience to the word of God a right following Christs voyce and conforming to his will John 10.27 4. The union with God by his spirit and faith and with his Saints by love Col. 1.4 2 Cor. 6.16 Rom. 8.14 Object But this Church wants the Discipline of Christ therefore no true Church Ans I confesse it wants it yet it hath these forenamed fundamentall essentiall notes by vertue whereof it s the Church of Christ as truly

from this Church which I proved to bee the spouse of Christ therefore for such as have taken this Covenant and yet Separate from us how they can doe this with a good conscience I cannot see QVEST. VII Whether is it necessary to demolish our Churches Steeplehouses as the Separatists call them and to build them in other places because they were built by Idolaters for Idolatrous worship were abused with images and dedicated to Saints Ans I Hold it neither necessary not fit to pull them downe because of the Idolatrous service practised in them Reas 1 Because we that worship God in them doe reject those Superstitions which were used in them and use them lawfully in the true worship of God as Golias his sword though an instrument of cruelty and murther serving for the maintenance of heathenish Idolaty in the hand of the Gyant was yet lawfully used by David as an instrument of justice to the glory of God 1 Samuel 17.51 1 Sam. 21.9 the authority of the Magistrate hath cast Superstition out of these houses converted them to the true worship of God Reas 2 If for the Superstitious rits of consecration our Temples should be demolished then how comes it to passe that the Church yards are not liable to the same judgement seeing they have beene consecrated by Bishops with abominable rites and Idolatrous superstitions as the Temples were The people of Biscaie in Spaine admitts of no Bishop amongst them for when Fernand the Catholike came in progresse hither accompanied by the Bishop of Pampelune the people arose in armes drave back the Bishop and gathering all the dust on which they thought he had troden and flung it into the Sea If Popish superstition have defiled our Churches and Church yards with an indelible staine why serve you not them so likewise Reas 3 Then it will also follow that Popish Baptisme being in like manner defiled with Idolatrous rits ought by the like necessity to be abolished a new baptisme to be sought while you retain amongst you the baptisme administred in Popery you cannot without partiality refuse our Temples the pollution of Baptisme by idle ceremonies of crossing exorcisme exsufflation salt spittle oyle c. is as great as the pollution of the Temples by their consecration Besides Mr. Ainsworth in on part of his workes saith that persons unlawfully circumcised and baptized in Idolatrous and false Churches might yet through faith and repentance come to a lawfull and comfortable use of their former circumsition and baptisme why then cannot our repentance and faith as well sanctifie unto us the places superstitiously consecrated while we doe in like manner disclaime and renounce their superstitions Reas 4 If the superstitious consecration of places unto Idolatry doth necessarily inferre the destruction of the same then are private houses of Idolaters to be destroyed for many of them have beene defiled with images and superstitious Rits Reas 5 If Temples popishly consecrated must bee demolished because of their former superstitions then it will also follow that the living Temples as Infants in their popish Baptisme and popish Ministers in their superstitious ordinations and popish Princes in their Coronations being as much defiled with Idolatrous rits as our Temples are in like manner to be destroyed Shall Achans tent be burnt and not Achan himselfe Iosh 7.24 25. this is the rather to be marked because Revel 18.13 the soules of men are expressely mentioned and reckoned amongst the wares and marchandise of Antichrist so as the Temples are not therefore such as stand for the demolishing of our Temples I suppose they would not have such persons destroyed as are converted from popery because they have beene Papists nither would they destroy a Papists house if the Parliament should bestow one upon them Object But the retaining of these steeple-houses for the service of God is a breath of the second Commandement Exod. 20.4 5 6. with Deut. 12.2 3. Ans 1 I conceive that commandement Deut. 12. is a temporary ordinance part of Moses his pollicie that is abrogated and therefore not binding us in these times for how ever the equity thereof continue teaching us to detest Idolatry yet it bindes us not in such manner and by such meanes to signifie our detestation thereof as it did them in Moses time for example as God here commands to abolish Idolatrous places so in the next chapter Deut. 13.12.15 16 17. God commands them not onely to demolish their places of worship but also their goods and cattell to burne it with fire the equity of this commandement leades us to a great detestation of Idolatry but who will say that it is to be declared by the very same meanes and manner of judgement in destroying such things as are of necessary use Secondly As God commands to destroy Idolatrous places so hee commands to abolish their names and not to retaine them Deut. 12.3 this commandement appeares herby to be temporary and ceremoniall because now in the New Testament wee see that the names of divers Idolls have beene retained in divers persons thereupon denominated as the names of Mercury Venus Phebe Iupiter Apollo Fortuna that were heathenish Idolls worshipped for gods and goddesses and yet their names not abolished in the Saints mentioned by the Apostles Rom. 16.14 Phil. 2.25 Rom. 16.1 Titus 3.13 1 Cor. 16.17 Thirdly this command for destroying Idolatrous places as it s not perpetuall for time so also not universall for the place but expresly restrained to the land of Canaan to the Idolls of those Nations which Israel should possesse from that place they were to be cut off ●s is thrise noted in three verses together Deut. 12 1.2 3. even as God would have greater severity and detestation to bee manifested towards the Idolaters in Canaan then to those of other Countries a farre off Deut. 20.10.15 16 17. Iosh 9.6 7. Fourthly Seeing meates sacrificed to Idolls were as much polluted as the places of their worship and yet notwithstanding may now lawfully be retained for our necessary vse Psal 24.1 with 1 Cor. 10.15 26 27. why not the Temples also Fiftly There is not the like reason to abolish the buildings abused unto Idolatry now as the high places of old because God having appointed one onely place for sacrifice Deut. 12.5 6 c. Levit. 17.3.4 those high places being for sacrifice were to bee destroyed though no Idolatry had beene committed in them but beeing polluted with the service of Idolls there was then double cause of their destruction which is not now in these while differance of place is taken away John 4 21. Sixtly The high places the Groves Altars Images destroyed by Josias 2 Chron. 34. whereof no necessary use as our Temples now are the high places were Altars in heigh Mountaines and Hills Acts 19.9 10. There we find an Idolatrous place converted by the Apostle unto the service of God the schoole of Tyrannus being as the rest of the heathenish schooles the nurseries of superstition idolatry false worship and pernicious opinions was yet after this used by Paul for a place of Gods worship for a schoole of religion to preach the Gospel of Christ in the same Levit. 6.28 Levit. 11.32 33. God there ordained that things polluted being of lesse price should be broken but being of more worth were to be purged and so retained as the mercifull care of God for his people appeared herein even under the Law so much more under the Gospel this type is fullfilled unto us and God in his large bounty doth grant us the necessary use both of things polluted with Idolatry as also of such thing as were otherwise ceremonially uncleane I hope these reasons will satisfie any reasonable man who truely loves the peace of Sion they satisfie me and convince me of the truth of these points which I have endeavoured to defend but howsoever some may like these reasons and others may dislike them I shall say to my selfe in the words of the Poet Theogins 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 FINIS

lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world Verse 4 Then said Paul John verily baptized with the baptisme of repentance saying unto the people that they should beleeve on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus Paraph. Then said Paul Iohn verily as the outward Minister of Baptisme baptized you with water to the remission of sinnes together with his baptisme teaching the people that they should beleeve in that Jesus Christ which should come after him so as his baptisme was true and perfect yet such as was not accompanied attended with these miraculous gifts which now since the full glorification of Christ are bestowed upon men Verse 5 When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Iesus Paraph. Whiles therefore Iohn taught them thus and made this holy comentary upon his said baptisme they that heard it in receiving his baptisme were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Verse 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them the holy Ghost came on them and they spake with tongues and prophesied Paraph. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them as having before beene fully and duely baptized the Holy Ghost came downe upon them in miraculous gifts and they spake with tongues and prophesied So that here is no ground for rebaptization in this place these twelve doubtlesse had received the Holy Ghost though not in that miraculous and extraordinary manner as they did after for Paul in his question saith they beleeved now to beleeve is a fruit of the Spirit Therefore the Separatists doe very ill oposing our Baptizing of Infants for in Scripture we finde no examples wherein Infants of Christian Parents were denyed baptisme but examples we find wherein they had it conferred upon them 1 Cor. 10.2 as I proved before and Lydia with all her houshould was baptized likewise wee finde no negative precept inhibiting paedobaptisme neither can it bee proved truely that Christs command Teach and Baptize c. doth exclude infants from baptisme now if their bee neither example nor precept against paedobaptisme then such as oppose it doe ill for they follow those pestilent hereticks called Annabaptists in Germany who sprung up there when the light of the Gospel first began to shine not very long since about Luthers time this their opinion being but new and upstart there is good reason they should disclaime it and be humbled for it QVEST. VI. Whether is it lawfull to separate from all the publike Ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English Church because there are some defects in Discipline and in other things amongst us Ans I Conceive it is absolutely unlawfull to relinquish Gods holy Ordinances and the Assemblies of godly Christians in this Church of England because of our mixt congregations and because of some defects in our Discipline Reas 1 Because Jesus Christ leaves us not for our defects and weakenesses but continues with us and I hope will doe for ever It appeares Christ dwells amongst us because hee hath setled his sacred word amongst us sent us many godly and learned teachers and where these are teaching the truth there is Christ Mat. 28.20 Also he hath planted his Sacraments in our Church he hath converted many soules in our land to himself by the faithfull dispensation of his Ordinances but where all this is there Christ is resident Exod. 20.24 such a Church is the spouse of Christ and whilst she holds the foundation of Religion retaining the substantiall grounds of it agreable to the analogie of faith she is spoused to Christ but if shee reject the foundation of religion she is an harlot as the Church of Rome is Revelat. 2. there Christ walkes amongst the seven golden candlestickes viz. Those seven Churches of Asia yet some of them had great defects Now till Christ leaves us it is unlawfull for them to leave us and account our Church an harlot such as do thus do through the sides of our Church wound Christ strike at him and dishonour him Luke 10.16 Reas 2 Because in separating from our Assemblies and Ordinances you prevent the exercise of many an holy duty which you might ought to have performed amongst us Heb. 10. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love good workes but some might aske how must we performe this duty he answers verse 25. not forsaking the Assembling of our selves together c. here the Apostles impugneth the supercidiousnesse of the selfe conceited Jewes who out of contempt of the Gentiles deserted the Christian Assemblies as if he had said notwithdrawing and utterly separating our selves from the assemblies of Gods people upon conceit of the peculiar rights prerogatives which God hath given the Jewes above the Gentiles and standing upon the high tearmes of difference as the manner of some is c. Reas 3 Because its the high way to the sinne against the Ghost as is very cleare Heb. 10.25.26 for such as despise and desert our Christian Assemblies and Gods holy ordinances amongst us for some defects and imperfections which doe not alienate Christ his presence love from us are in the ready way to fall to blaspheme the truth and to sinne unpardonable Mr. Paget of Amsterdam in his preface to his booke called An arrow against the Separation of the Brownists complaines of them thus It is apparent that three or foure hundred of the Brownists have brought forth more Apostate Anabaptists and Arrians sometimes in one yeare then 10000 members of the reformed Dutch Church in this City have done in ten yeares or more though tempted and compassed about with seducers as much as any other Now the Arrian heresie is fearefull and odious in the yeare 324 sprang up Arrins a Presbyter in Alexandria who denyed that the Sonne of God was begotten of the substance of the Father but said that he was a creature and that there was a time wherein the Sonne was not The Anabaptists taught that infants should not bee baptized untill they came to perfect age and can give a confession of their owne faith Next that Christ tooke not flesh and blood of the Virgin but brought it from heaven Next that God not onely revealeth his will by the written word but also by visions and dreames Next that that Church is not a true Church wherein there is any Spot or wrinckle Next that the Office of Magistrates under the New Testament is not a calling approved of God Thomas Muntzerus one of the first Fathers of this Sect made a great insurrection though the Anabaptists teach that warres are unlawfull for Christians but was overcome and beheaded in the yeare 1533. Iohannes Leidensis troubled the City of Munster but was taken and condemned to death he called himselfe King of new Ierusalem David Georgius an Anabaptist in Holland said that he was Christ the Messias and Saviour of the world Thus wee see when men disdaine the Assemblies of Saints for some defects God leaves them to