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A73011 Looke beyond Luther: or An ansvvere to that question, so often and so insultingly proposed by our aduersaries, asking vs; where this our religion was before Luthers time? VVhereto are added sound props to beare vp honest-hearted Protestants, that they fall not from their sauing-faith. By Richard Bernard, of Batcombe in Sommersetshire. Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641. 1623 (1623) STC 1956.3; ESTC S123041 43,757 64

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yeeres after Christ in which space was there none that might be called a Papist or Roman Catholike after the definition of the Trentists And therefore were they not their Martyrs neither did any of them professe the now new Romane Trentisme And thus wee see how by these differences they cannot claime the Martyrs Now our differences from them are all grounded vpon Scriptures and principles of Christianity and warranted by such common truth of Christian Religion as they and we doe fully accord in not one of our differences being either heresie or any part of Iudaisme or Paganisme nor euer condemned by any generall Councell in the space of these first sixe hundreds of yeeres in which these three sorts of Martyrs did liue True it is that our aduersaries call vs Heretikes and lay heresies to our charge but falsely without iust proose as our learned Whitacres Bishop Morton and others shew in answering Bellarmine his calumnies herein to the full Seeing then our differences and truths of Christian Religion taught by the Apostles and by the succeeding Pastors and belieued by the Church are the parts of that Faith and Religion which these Martyrs suffered for I conclude that in regard both of the truthes wherein wee and our Aduersaries agree and also of our differences wherein we disagree from the now present Church of Rome they were our Martyrs and none of theirs IV. Sort of Martyrs are those who suffered by and amongst these our aduersaries as the Berengarians Waldenses Albigenses Wicklife and his followers in England Iohn Hus and Ierome of Prague at Constance and many moe in Bohemia and in other places euen to Luthers time and after an innumerable multitude slaine and massacred burnt and put to sundry deathes for our Religion and for gaine-saying our aduersaries in those differences which we now stand out in against the Church of Rome at this present These were therefore our Martyrs But our aduersaries will say that these were no Martyrs but condemned Heretikes That they were Martyrs no Heretikes its cleare S. Iohn in the Reuelation calleth those Saints and Martyrs of Iesus Reuel 17.6 which should suffer for the Word of God for refusing to worship the Beast and his Image and for not receiuing his marke in their fore-heads or in their hands Reuel 20.4 and for keeping the Commandements of God and the faith of Iesus and so dying in the Lord should rest from their labours and be accounted blessed Reuel 14.12 13. But such were these our Martyrs for they suffered for Gods Word for keeping the Commandements and Faith of Iesus and for refusing to worship the Beast and Whore of Rome drunke with the blood of the Saints And therefore were blessed Martyrs and no Heretikes But they will say These held diuers errours and were not in all things wholly with vs They suffered and were Martyrs for those selfe-same things which with vs they witnessed against the Church of Rome II. Many errours are ascribed vnto them which they neuer held as Doctor Vsher Bishop of Meeth learnedly shewes III. Though in some things they should haue differed from vs yet doth not that make them not to be of our Religion For if for lighter differences in opinions men should be held not to be of the same Religion if so our aduersaries will conclude then are the now Romanists not of one and the same Religion which is now professed at Rome for one of them differs much from another in many things Neither haue they any right to the ancient Fathers betweene whom and these our aduersaries is also great difference and that in many things These Martyrs therefore though they might differ from vs in some things the Light then not shining so clearely as now it doth were our Martyrs Thus wee see all the Martyrs from the beginning to be ours and so haue our Aduersaries none at all which may be properly called theirs for the first 600. yeeres For if they claime the first three sorts it s but as they doe agree with vs for in their differences from vs the Martyrs are none of theirs The fourth sort are clearely our owne and are Martyrs in defence of our differences from them But for their differences they haue no Mrrtyrs of Iesus for such Martyrs as be his Martyrs suffer for his sake for Gods Word for his Faith and Commandements but their differences are not Gods Word nor the Faith nor Commandements of Iesus neither suffered Papists here for Religion but for treason rebellion disloyall acts for denying due obedience to lawfull authority and for standing in defence of forraine power and the authority of the Whore of Babylon the murtherer of Saints and of that Antichrist the Pope as hee is prooued sufficiently so to bee And therefore I conclude our Religion to be before Luthers time III. Argument From the Writings of the ancient Fathers THat Religion which is to be found in the writings of the ancient Fathers as professed and taught by them in the first 600. yeeres after Christ that was before Luthers time But this our present Religion in the poynts of doctrine wherin we differ from our Aduersaries is to be found in the writings of the ancient Fathers as professed and taught by them in the first 600. yeeres after Christ Therefore was this our present Religion in the poynts of doctrine wherein wee differ from our Aduersaries before Luthers time The Minor I thus prooue All the differing Religions of greatest note which were euer since Christs ascension are one of these Iudaisme Gentilisme or Paganisme Arianisme vnder which I comprehend all heresies Mahometisme or Turcisme the present Religion of the Church of Rome which may be called Trentisme or Iesuitisme commonly called Papistrie and this our Religion termed The reformed Religion or Protestancy which wee professe and teach with an vnanime consent in the Harmonie of Confessions otherwise then the Church of Rome now doth But those ancient Fathers taught not Iudaisme nor Paganisme nor Arianisme or other heresies which in those dayes rose vp nor Mahometisme Ergo either the Religion of the now Church of Rome or ours with either of our differences one from another But not so this of theirs For those differences on their part whereby a man becommeth a Romane Catholike or Papist the ancient Fathers with one consent neuer taught The differences are mentioned before for all which if they can produce the vnanime Consent of those Fathers in 600. yeeres space we yeeld them the Fathers but if not then are they ours as they that taught and professed our Religion For they not onely taught all the maine poynts of faith which we and our aduersaries doe agree in but also all the principall differences with vs wherein we and our aduersaries doe differ as Polanus hath largely prooued to whose learned paines I referre the Reader Therefore this our present Religion was before Luthers time IV. Argument From the witnesse of our very