Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	bishop_n	peter_n	succession_n	1,339	5	9.9497	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A26947	A key for Catholicks, to open the jugling of the Jesuits, and satisfie all that are but truly willing to understand, whether the cause of the Roman or reformed churches be of God ... containing some arguments by which the meanest may see the vanity of popery, and 40 detections of their fraud, with directions, and materials sufficient for the confutation of their voluminous deceits ... : the second part sheweth (especially against the French and Grotians) that the Catholick Church is not united in any meerly humane head, either Pope or council / by Richard Baxter, a Catholick Christian and Pastor of a church ...	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1659 (1659)	Wing B1295; ESTC R19360	404,289	516

whether_o the_o tongue_n of_o these_o man_n be_v fit_a to_o call_v we_o mercenary_n or_o hireling_n or_o such_o as_o preach_v for_o filthy_a lucre_n or_o whether_o ever_o great_a impudence_n be_v manifest_v by_o the_o vile_a son_n of_o adam_n then_o for_o such_o man_n that_o lord_n it_o over_o emperor_n king_n and_o prince_n and_o devour_v the_o wealth_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n to_o call_v poor_a minister_n of_o christ_n covetous_a or_o hireling_n that_o be_v content_a with_o food_n and_o raiment_n and_o a_o mean_a education_n of_o their_o child_n and_o that_o have_v do_v so_o much_o to_o take_v down_o the_o lordliness_n and_o riches_n of_o the_o clergy_n judge_n of_o this_o deal_n and_o if_o you_o have_v rather_o have_v the_o popish_a priesthood_n with_o the_o numberless_a swarm_n of_o friar_n and_o several_a order_n you_o may_v take_v they_o and_o say_v you_o have_v your_o choice_n chap._n xxxiii_o detect_v 24._o another_o of_o their_o design_n conjunct_a with_o the_o last_o mention_v be_v to_o persuade_v the_o world_n that_o they_o only_o have_v a_o true_a ministry_n or_o priesthood_n and_o a_o apostolical_a episcopacy_n and_o true_a ordination_n and_o that_o we_o and_o all_o other_o church_n have_v no_o true_a minister_n but_o mere_a lay_v man_n under_o the_o name_n of_o minister_n because_o we_o have_v no_o just_a ordination_n and_o how_o prove_v they_o all_o this_o why_o they_o say_v that_o they_o have_v a_o pope_n that_o be_v a_o true_a successor_n of_o saint_n peter_n but_o we_o have_v no_o succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n and_o therefore_o no_o just_a ordination_n because_o no_o man_n can_v give_v that_o power_n which_o he_o have_v not_o and_o we_o be_v schismatic_n separate_v from_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o our_o ordination_n be_v invalid_a and_o some_o of_o our_o church_n have_v no_o bishop_n and_o therefore_o say_v they_o we_o have_v no_o true_a ministry_n there_o nor_o be_v they_o true_a church_n these_o be_v their_o reason_n in_o answer_n to_o which_o i_o shall_v first_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o my_o second_o s●eet_n for_o the_o ministry_n in_o justification_n of_o their_o call_n where_o these_o reason_n be_v confute_v and_o our_o calling_n vindicate_v and_o i_o shall_v forbear_v here_o to_o repeat_v the_o same_o thing_n again_o also_o i_o refer_v you_o for_o a_o full_a answer_n to_o the_o london_n minister_n jus_fw-la divinum_fw-la ministerii_fw-la and_o to_o mr._n tho._n ball_n book_n for_o the_o ministry_n and_o mr._n mason_n book_n in_o vindication_n of_o the_o ministry_n of_o those_o reform_a church_n that_o have_v not_o prelate_n and_o to_o voetius_fw-la desper_n caus_n 2._o though_o we_o need_v not_o fetch_v our_o ordination_n from_o rome_n yet_o as_o to_o they_o we_o may_v true_o say_v that_o if_o they_o have_v any_o true_a ordination_n and_o ministry_n than_o so_o have_v we_o for_o our_o first_o reformer_n be_v ordain_v by_o their_o bishop_n which_o be_v enough_o to_o stop_v their_o mouth_n if_o they_o say_v that_o our_o schism_n have_v cut_v off_o our_o power_n of_o ordination_n i_o answer_v ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la that_o though_o it_o be_v they_o that_o be_v indeed_o the_o notorious_a schismatic_n yet_o if_o we_o be_v what_o they_o false_o say_v we_o be_v it_o will_v not_o null_a our_o ordination_n confirmation_n or_o such_o other_o act_n and_o this_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o their_o own_o writer_n i_o shall_v at_o this_o time_n only_o cite_v the_o word_n of_o one_o of_o they_o and_o of_o many_o in_o that_o one_o and_o that_o be_v thom._n à_fw-la jesis_fw-la de_fw-fr conversione_n gentium_fw-la lib._n 6._o cap._n 9_o where_o he_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v one_o of_o the_o certainty_n agree_v on_o that_o schismatic_n lose_v not_o nor_o can_v lose_v any_o spiritual_a power_n consist_v in_o the_o spiritual_a character_n of_o baptism_n or_o confirmation_n of_o order_n for_o this_o be_v indelible_a as_o dr._n thomas_n teach_v here_o art_n 3._o and_o turrecremata_fw-la confirm_v lib._n 4._o sum_n part_n 1._o c._n 7._o and_o silvester_n verb._n schismatici_fw-la and_o it_o appear_v by_o pope_n urban_n can._n ordinationes_fw-la 9_o q._n 1._o who_o judge_v those_o to_o be_v true_o ordain_v that_o be_v ordain_v by_o schismatical_a bishop_n and_o from_o austin_n lib._n 6._o de_fw-fr bapt._n cont._n donatist_n cap._n 5._o where_o he_o say_v that_o a_o separatist_n may_v deliver_v the_o sacrament_n as_o well_o as_o have_v it_o he_o next_o add_v that_o yet_o such_o be_v deprive_v of_o the_o faculty_n of_o lawful_a use_v the_o power_n which_o they_o have_v so_o that_o it_o will_v be_v their_o sin_n to_o use_v it_o though_o it_o be_v not_o a_o nullity_n if_o they_o do_v use_v it_o and_o that_o thus_o those_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v that_o speak_v against_o the_o ordination_n confirmation_n etc._n etc._n of_o schismatic_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a because_o their_o power_n be_v suspend_v by_o the_o church_n but_o not_o a_o nullity_n because_o they_o have_v the_o power_n pag._n 316._o he_o put_v the_o question_n whether_o schismatical_a presbyter_n and_o bishop_n do_v want_v the_o power_n of_o order_n or_o only_o want_v jurisdiction_n and_o he_o answer_v out_o of_o d._n thom._n 22._o q._n 39_o art_n 3._o that_o they_o want_v jurisdiction_n and_o can_v absolve_v excommunicate_a or_o grant_v indulgence_n and_o so_o they_o can_v elect_v and_o give_v benefice_n and_o make_v law_n but_o yet_o they_o have_v the_o holy_a power_n of_o order_n and_o therefore_o a_o schismatical_a bishop_n do_v true_o make_v and_o consecrate_v the_o eucharist_n true_o confirm_v true_o ordain_v and_o when_o he_o elect_v and_o promote_v any_o to_o ecclesiastical_a order_n they_o true_o receive_v the_o character_n of_o order_n but_o not_o the_o use_n because_o they_o be_v suspend_v if_o know_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o a_o schismatical_a bishop_n he_o next_o ask_v whether_o this_o punishment_n deprive_v they_o of_o jurisdiction_n take_v place_n with_o all_o schismatic_n and_n answer_v that_o some_o say_n that_o before_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n this_o punishment_n belong_v to_o all_o notorious_a schismatic_n but_o not_o to_o the_o unknown_a one_o but_o since_o that_o council_n it_o take_v place_n only_o on_o those_o that_o be_v express_o and_o by_o name_n denounce_v or_o manifest_a striker_n of_o the_o clergy_n other_o say_v otherwise_o but_o he_o himself_o answer_v that_o if_o a_o schismatic_n be_v toleraet_v and_o by_o the_o common_a error_n of_o the_o people_n be_v take_v for_o lawful_a there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o all_o his_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v valid_a which_o we_o shall_v affirm_v also_o of_o heretic_n but_o if_o a_o presbyter_n or_o bishop_n be_v a_o manifest_a schismatic_a than_o some_o say_v that_o those_o act_n that_o require_v jurisdiction_n be_v invalid_a but_o other_o say_v that_o they_o be_v all_o valid_a in_o case_n the_o schismatic_a be_v not_o by_o name_n excommunicate_v or_o a_o manifest_a striker_n of_o the_o clergy_n thus_o far_o thom._n à_fw-fr jesus_n open_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o papist_n doctor_n themselves_o in_o the_o point_n and_o by_o the_o way_n our_o new_a superprelatical_a brethren_n that_o degrade_v other_o that_o want_v their_o ordination_n yea_o or_o command_n and_o nullify_v their_o act_n shall_v learn_v not_o to_o go_v beyond_o the_o papist_n themselves_z if_o they_o will_v go_v with_o they_o and_o observe_v that_o it_o be_v but_o their_o own_o canon_n that_o be_v their_o own_o will_n that_o the_o papist_n here_o plead_v when_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n have_v so_o alter_v the_o business_n 2._o though_o this_o that_o be_v say_v be_v enough_o as_o to_o the_o papist_n yet_o i_o add_v for_o full_a satisfaction_n that_o their_o succession_n be_v interrupt_v and_o therefore_o they_o be_v most_o unfit_a to_o be_v our_o judge_n in_o this_o they_o have_v have_v so_o long_a schism_n in_o which_o no_o man_n know_v who_o be_v the_o right_a pope_n nor_o know_v to_o this_o day_n and_o so_o long_o remove_v and_o vacancy_n and_o such_o interposition_n of_o various_a way_n of_o choose_v their_o pope_n and_o interruption_n by_o heretical_a pope_n condemn_v by_o general_a council_n beside_o murderer_n adulterer_n symonist_n and_o such_o as_o their_o own_o writer_n as_o genebrard_n express_o say_v be_v not_o apostolical_a but_o apostatical_a yea_o pope_n that_o by_o general_a council_n have_v be_v judge_v or_o charge_v with_o infidelity_n itself_o as_o i_o have_v former_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o certain_a than_o that_o their_o succession_n have_v be_v interrupt_v 3._o they_o can_v be_v certain_a but_o its_o every_o age_n interrupt_v and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o true_a pope_n or_o bishop_n among_o they_o because_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o ordainer_n or_o consecrator_n be_v with_o they_o of_o necessity_n to_o the_o thing_n and_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o

of_o any_o father_n whereby_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o any_o account_n at_o all_o be_v make_v of_o it_o where_o he_o cit_v the_o full_a express_a word_n of_o the_o father_n of_o those_o first_o age_n against_o pray_v to_o saint_n as_o origen_n in_o jus._n hom._n 16._o and_o in_o rom._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 2._o and_o contr._n celsum_fw-la lib._n 8._o page_n 432_o 433_o 406_o 411_o 412._o &_o lib._n 5._o pag._n 239._o tertullian_n apol._n cap._n 30._o tertullian_n and_o cyprian_n of_o prayer_n athanasius_n orat._n 4._o cont._n arrium_fw-la pag._n 259_o 260._o eccles_n smyrn_n apud_fw-la euseb_n hist_o lib._n 4._o etc._n etc._n i_o be_o loath_a to_o recite_v what_o be_v there_o already_o give_v you_o 3._o and_o when_o prayer_n to_o the_o dead_a do_v come_v in_o how_o exceed_o it_o differ_v from_o the_o romish_a prayer_n to_o the_o dead_a i_o pray_v you_o read_v there_o in_o the_o same_o author_n 4._o and_o also_o of_o those_o adoration_n and_o devotion_n offer_v by_o the_o papist_n to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n i_o desire_v you_o to_o read_v in_o the_o same_o author_n and_o place_n enough_o to_o make_v a_o christian_a tremble_v and_o which_o for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o not_o able_a to_o excuse_v from_o horrid_a blasphemy_n or_o idolatry_n though_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o put_v the_o best_a interpretation_n on_o their_o word_n that_o reason_n will_v allow_v 5._o the_o reason_n why_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n man_n be_v not_o wont_a to_o pray_v to_o saint_n bellarmine_n say_v be_v because_o than_o they_o do_v not_o enter_v into_o heaven_n nor_o see_v god_n bellar._n the_o sanct_a beat._n li._n 2._o cap._n 19_o so_o suarez_n in_o the_o three_o part_n tom._n 2._o disp_n 42._o sect._n 1_o but_o abundance_n of_o the_o chief_a doctor_n of_o the_o church_n for_o divers_a age_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o saint_n be_v not_o admit_v into_o heaven_n to_o the_o clear_a sight_n of_o god_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n as_o most_o of_o the_o eastern_a church_n do_v to_o this_o day_n therefore_o they_o can_v not_o be_v for_o the_o popish_a prayer_n to_o saint_n and_o here_o again_o observe_v that_o man_n may_v be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n and_o church_n with_o we_o that_o differ_v and_o err_v in_o as_o great_a a_o matter_n as_o this_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n have_v now_o define_v it_o that_o depart_v soul_n be_v admit_v into_o heaven_n to_o the_o clear_a sight_n of_o god_n and_o yet_o stapleton_n and_o francis_n pegna_fw-la à_fw-fr castro_n medina_n sotus_n affirm_v that_o irenaeus_n justin_n martyr_n tertullian_n clemens_n romanus_n origen_n ambrose_n chrysostome_n austin_n lactantius_n victorinus_n prudentius_n theodoret_n aretas_n oecumenius_n theophilact_fw-mi euthymius_n yea_o and_o bernard_n have_v deliver_v the_o contrary_a sentence_n see_v staplet_n defence_n eccles_n author_n cont_n whitak_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 2._o with_o fran._n pegna_n in_o part_n 2._o director_n inquisitor_n come_v 21._o now_o as_o all_o these_o must_v needs_o be_v against_o the_o popish_a invocation_n of_o saint_n so_o they_o be_v against_o that_o which_o be_v now_o determine_v to_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la whence_o i_o gather_v on_o the_o by_o 1._o that_o the_o romish_a faith_n increase_v and_o be_v not_o the_o same_o as_o heretofore_o 2._o that_o they_o have_v not_o this_o article_n by_o tradition_n from_o any_o of_o these_o father_n or_o from_o the_o apostle_n by_o they_o unless_o from_o the_o scripture_n 3._o that_o man_n that_o err_v in_o such_o point_n as_o be_v now_o define_v by_o council_n to_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la be_v yet_o account_v by_o papist_n to_o be_v of_o their_o church_n and_o faith_n and_o therefore_o they_o may_v be_v of_o we_o notwithstanding_o such_o error_n as_o this_o in_o hand_n 4._o and_o note_v also_o by_o this_o taste_n whether_o the_o papist_n be_v not_o a_o perjure_a generation_n that_o swear_v not_o to_o expound_v scripture_n but_o according_a to_o the_o unanimous_a consent_n of_o the_o father_n 6._o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n condemn_v they_o as_o idolater_n that_o pray_v to_o angel_n can._n 35._o which_o caranza_n crab_n and_o other_o papist_n have_v turn_v into_o angulos_fw-la who_o falsification_n you_o may_v see_v full_o detect_v by_o the_o say_a bishop_n usher_n ibid._n pag._n 470._o 471_o 472._o read_v there_o also_o the_o full_a testimony_n of_o greg._n nissen_n athanasius_n epiphanius_n etc._n etc._n against_o pray_v to_o saint_n and_o angel_n and_o the_o detection_n of_o bellarmine_n fraud_n that_o pretend_v the_o father_n to_o speak_v of_o the_o gentile_n idolatry_n when_o they_o mention_v the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o the_o saint_n and_o say_v express_o they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v adore_v but_o for_o all_o this_o h._n t._n manual_n page_n 291_o etc._n etc._n have_v father_n for_o this_o adoration_n of_o angel_n and_o saint_n and_o who_o be_v they_o the_o first_o be_v dionysius_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v 1._o there_o be_v never_o a_o such_o a_o word_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v in_o dionysius_n in_o the_o book_n that_o i_o have_v at_o hand_n print_v lugdun_n 1572._o 2._o we_o be_v for_o pray_v the_o saint_n to_o pray_v for_o we_o too_o that_o be_v those_o on_o earth_n and_o the_o word_n cite_v by_o he_o mention_v not_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n 3._o that_o dionysius_n be_v not_o dionysius_n but_o a_o spurious_a apocryphal_a book_n not_o once_o know_v and_o mention_v in_o the_o world_n till_o gregory_n the_o great_v day_n six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n as_o bellarmine_n himself_o say_v lib._n the_o scriptor_n eccles_n de_fw-fr diony_n and_o lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr monach._n cap._n 5._o the_o second_o be_v clem._n apostol_n constit_fw-la 5._o answ_n 1._o the_o word_n speak_v only_o of_o honour_v the_o martyr_n which_o be_v our_o unquestioned_a duty_n but_o not_o of_o pray_v to_o they_o 2._o it_o be_v a_o apocryphal_a forgery_n and_o neither_o the_o apostle_n nor_o clement_n work_n which_o he_o cit_v but_o any_o thing_n will_v serve_v these_o man_n let_v he_o believe_v bellarmine_n the_o scriptor_n eccles_n pag._n 38_o 39_o where_o he_o prove_v it_o and_o say_v that_o in_o the_o latin_a church_n these_o constitution_n be_v of_o almost_o no_o account_n and_o the_o greek_n themselves_o canon_n 2._o trul._n reject_v they_o as_o deprave_v by_o heretic_n and_o that_o the_o receive_n of_o they_o be_v it_o that_o mislead_v the_o aethiopian_n see_v more_o against_o they_o in_o cook_n censurâ_fw-la pag._n 17_o 18_o 19_o and_o rivet_n crit._n sac._n &_o dalaeus_n in_o pseudepigrap_n the_o three_o testimony_n of_o h._n t._n be_v from_o justins_n second_o apol._n answ_n it_o be_v not_o pray_v to_o angel_n that_o justin_n seem_v to_o intend_v but_o give_v they_o due_a honour_n which_o we_o allow_v of_o his_o intent_n be_v to_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o heathen_n that_o call_v the_o christian_n impious_a for_o renounce_v their_o god_n to_o who_o he_o reply_v that_o we_o yet_o honour_v the_o true_a god_n and_o his_o angel_n etc._n etc._n his_o testimony_n for_o the_o three_o age_n be_v only_a origen_n and_o yet_o none_o of_o origen_n first_n in_o his_o lament_n answ_n 1._o origen_n there_o mention_v the_o saint_n but_o not_o the_o dead_a saint_n it_o may_v be_v all_o the_o saint_n in_o the_o church_n on_o earth_n who_o prayer_n he_o desire_v 2._o if_o this_o satisfy_v you_o not_o at_o least_o be_v satisfy_v with_o this_o that_o you_o cite_v a_o forgery_n that_o be_v none_o of_o origen_n work_v not_o only_o erasmus_n say_v that_o this_o lamentation_n be_v neither_o write_v by_o origen_n nor_o translate_v by_o hierom_n but_o be_v the_o fiction_n of_o some_o unlearned_a man_n that_o by_o this_o trick_n devise_v to_o defame_n origen_n but_o baronius_n annal._n tit._n 2._o ad_fw-la a_o 253._o p._n 477._o witness_v that_o pope_n gelasius_n number_n it_o with_o the_o apocryphal_o but_o h._n t._n have_v a_o second_o testimony_n from_o origen_n in_o cantic_a hom._n 3._o answ_n 1._o that_o speak_v of_o the_o saint_n prayer_n for_o we_o but_o not_o of_o our_o prayer_n to_o they_o one_o word_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n 2._o but_o erasmus_n and_o other_o have_v show_v that_o neither_o be_v this_o any_o of_o origen_n work_v sixtus_n senensis_n say_v that_o some_o old_a book_n put_v hieroms_n name_n to_o it_o and_o lombard_n and_o aquinas_n cite_v passage_n out_o of_o it_o as_o ambrose_n you_o see_v now_o what_o testimony_n h._n t._n have_v produce_v for_o the_o first_o three_o age_n even_o till_o above_o four_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o yet_o no_o doubt_n but_o this_o be_v currant_n proof_n with_o the_o poor_a delude_a papist_n that_o read_v his_o book_n 2._o the_o next_o exception_n to_o be_v consider_v be_v pray_v for_o the_o dead_a which_o they_o say_v the_o ancient_a church_n be_v for_o answ_n 1._o we_o be_v for_o

the_o commemoration_n of_o the_o holy_a life_n and_o suffering_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o the_o first_o sort_n of_o the_o ancient_n prayer_n for_o they_o begin_v here_o as_o the_o occasion_n 2._o we_o be_v for_o thankful_a acknowledgement_n of_o god_n mercy_n to_o the_o depart_a saint_n and_o to_o the_o church_n by_o they_o and_o the_o first_o prayer_n for_o they_o be_v such_o as_o these_o 3._o bishop_n usher_z have_v copious_o prove_v that_o they_o be_v saint_n suppose_v to_o be_v in_o heaven_n or_o paradise_n and_o not_o in_o purgatory_n that_o be_v then_o pray_v for_o and_o therefore_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o popish_a pray_v for_o torment_a soul_n that_o be_v then_o practise_v and_o therefore_o their_o prayer_n then_o be_v beside_o commemoration_n and_o thanksgiving_n the_o petition_v of_o all_o those_o follow_a mercy_n for_o they_o which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v till_o the_o resurrection_n bellarmine_n himself_o prove_v that_o though_o we_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o bless_a soul_n shall_v have_v a_o raise_v glorify_v body_n and_o be_v justify_v in_o the_o last_o judgement_n yet_o may_v it_o be_v pray_v for_o because_o it_o be_v yet_o future_a now_o we_o be_v far_o from_o be_v of_o another_o church_n or_o religion_n then_o those_o that_o hold_v such_o a_o opinion_n as_o this_o say_v usher_n pag._n 224._o when_o he_o have_v cite_v many_o testimony_n in_o these_o and_o other_o prayer_n of_o the_o like_a kind_n we_o may_v descry_v evident_a footstep_n of_o the_o primary_n intention_n of_o the_o church_n in_o her_o supplication_n for_o the_o dead_a which_o be_v that_o the_o whole_a man_n not_o the_o soul_n separate_v only_o may_v receive_v public_a remission_n of_o sin_n and_o a_o solemn_a acquittal_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o that_o great_a day_n and_o so_o obtain_v both_o a_o full_a escape_n from_o all_o the_o consequence_n of_o sin_n the_o last_o enemy_n be_v now_o destroy_v and_o death_n swallow_v up_o in_o victory_n and_o a_o perfect_a consummation_n of_o bliss_n and_o happiness_n all_o which_o be_v comprise_v in_o that_o short_a prayer_n of_o s._n paul_n for_o onesiphorus_n though_o make_v for_o he_o while_o he_o be_v alive_a the_o lord_n grant_v unto_o he_o that_o he_o may_v find_v mercy_n of_o the_o lord_n in_o that_o day_n yea_o divers_a prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a of_o that_o kind_n be_v still_o retain_v in_o the_o roman_a office_n of_o which_o the_o great_a spanish_a doctor_n john_n medina_n thus_o write_v although_o i_o have_v read_v many_o prayer_n for_o the_o faithful_a decease_a which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o roman_a missal_n yet_o have_v i_o read_v in_o none_o of_o they_o that_o the_o church_n do_v petition_n that_o they_o may_v more_o quick_o be_v free_v from_o pain_n but_o i_o have_v read_v that_o in_o some_o of_o they_o petition_n be_v make_v that_o they_o may_v be_v free_v from_o everlasting_a pain_n again_o there_o be_v other_o prayer_n say_v medina_n wherein_o petition_n be_v make_v that_o god_n will_v raise_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o dead_a in_o their_o body_n unto_o bliss_n at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n you_o see_v then_o that_o our_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o the_o dead_a may_v be_v pray_v for_o but_o what_o prayer_n may_v be_v make_v for_o they_o and_o therefore_o to_o find_v that_o about_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n more_o or_o less_o man_n begin_v to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a be_v no_o proof_n that_o they_o be_v not_o of_o our_o church_n or_o religion_n or_o that_o therefore_o we_o want_v succession_n it_o be_v not_o a_o pray_v to_o be_v soon_o out_o of_o purgatory_n that_o then_o be_v use_v as_o papist_n do_v but_o a_o pray_v for_o the_o mercy_n promise_v at_o the_o resurrection_n and_o thus_o we_o think_v it_o lawful_a to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a be_v it_o not_o for_o the_o accidental_a evil_n that_o may_v follow_v with_o they_o that_o will_v misunderstand_v and_o abuse_v it_o and_o its_o further_a to_o be_v note_v that_o as_o pegna_fw-la stapleton_n and_o other_o confess_v the_o father_n greek_n and_o latin_a before_o mention_v do_v believe_v that_o man_n have_v not_o their_o perfect_a joy_n till_o the_o resurrection_n and_o therefore_o they_o have_v the_o far_o strong_a motive_n to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a and_o if_o protestant_n have_v not_o be_v partly_o of_o this_o mind_n save_o only_o that_o we_o put_v not_o the_o soul_n into_o hide_a receptacle_n nor_o anywhere_o but_o with_o christ_n bellarmine_n have_v not_o find_v so_o much_o occasion_n of_o that_o unworthy_a calumny_n against_o calvin_n for_o the_o word_n cite_v by_o he_o in_o his_o instit_n as_o if_o he_o deny_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n if_o not_o the_o immortality_n of_o the_o soul_n even_o because_o he_o take_v not_o our_o bliss_n to_o be_v perfect_a till_o the_o resurrection_n but_o somewhat_o short_a of_o what_o we_o shall_v then_o be_v now_o see_v the_o father_n be_v so_o common_o of_o that_o mind_n and_o the_o greek_n and_o aethiopian_n be_v still_o of_o that_o mind_n and_o bellarmine_n say_v luther_n and_o calvin_n be_v of_o that_o mind_n you_o may_v see_v that_o neither_o in_o that_o nor_o the_o point_n of_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a as_o use_v by_o the_o ancient_n be_v our_o distance_n so_o great_a as_o to_o weaken_v the_o proof_n of_o our_o succession_n or_o make_v we_o to_o be_v of_o two_o church_n or_o religion_n and_o here_o you_o may_v see_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a which_o be_v use_v by_o the_o papist_n and_o by_o the_o eastern_a church_n to_o this_o day_n and_o yet_o if_o upon_o private_a unsound_a opinion_n any_o shall_v go_v somewhat_o further_o in_o this_o point_n it_o follow_v not_o that_o such_o error_n change_v the_o faith_n i_o desire_v the_o reader_n that_o will_v have_v a_o full_a sight_n of_o the_o face_n of_o antiquity_n in_o this_o point_n to_o read_v bishop_n usher_n of_o it_o in_o the_o forementioned_a answer_n to_o the_o jesuit_n 3._o another_o point_n that_o they_o much_o challenge_v we_o about_o be_v the_o veneration_n or_o adoration_n of_o image_n relic_n and_o the_o cross_n to_o which_o i_o may_v join_v peregrination_n to_o place_n esteem_v by_o they_o to_o be_v of_o eminent_a holiness_n concern_v peregrination_n you_o may_v see_v by_o a_o plain_a epistle_n of_o gregory_n nyssen_n in_o the_o end_n of_o his_o print_a work_n but_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o a_o m._n s._n in_o paris_n library_n write_v purposely_o against_o go_v on_o pilgrimage_n to_o jerusalem_n what_o be_v to_o be_v think_v of_o this_o he_o advise_v even_o the_o retire_a monastic_o even_o in_o those_o country_n that_o be_v near_o judaea_n to_o forbear_v such_o pilgrimage_n as_o dangerous_a and_o unnecessary_a and_o not_o at_o all_o command_v in_o the_o scripture_n the_o papist_n do_v as_o long_o as_o they_o can_v persuade_v the_o world_n that_o this_o epistle_n be_v none_o of_o gregory_n and_o when_o they_o be_v make_v ashamed_a of_o that_o they_o will_v expound_v it_o as_o prohibit_v pilgrimage_n to_o none_o but_o the_o monastic_o and_o sure_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v forbid_v they_o then_o much_o more_o shall_v other_o be_v forbid_v that_o have_v not_o the_o leisure_n and_o pretend_v not_o to_o the_o devotion_n which_o these_o pretend_v to_o read_v but_o the_o epistle_n itself_o without_o either_o molinaeus_n his_o note_n on_o our_o side_n or_o gretser_n frivolous_a answer_n and_o judge_v as_o thou_o see_v cause_n as_o for_o image_n we_o allow_v the_o historical_a use_n of_o they_o and_o the_o set_v they_o up_o in_o church_n the_o lutheran_n allow_v and_o we_o dislike_v it_o only_o as_o dangerous_a and_o a_o needless_a snare_n but_o take_v not_o ourselves_o to_o be_v of_o another_o church_n or_o religion_n from_o those_o that_o be_v otherwise_o mind_v no_o nor_o from_o those_o that_o reverence_n they_o as_o they_o respect_v the_o person_n who_o they_o signify_v but_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o use_v image_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o use_v they_o popish_o which_o be_v to_o make_v they_o mediate_v object_n of_o divine_a worship_n yea_o to_o worship_n the_o very_a image_n itself_o and_o the_o cross_n and_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n with_o the_o same_o worship_n as_o we_o do_v he_o that_o be_v signify_v by_o they_o so_o that_o we_o confident_o affirm_v 1._o that_o the_o primitive_a church_n do_v make_v no_o use_n of_o image_n at_o all_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n no_o nor_o endure_v they_o in_o the_o place_n of_o worship_n 2._o that_o when_o they_o be_v first_o bring_v in_o the_o popish_a use_n of_o they_o be_v still_o renounce_v and_o detest_v clemens_n alexandrinus_n protreptic_a ad_fw-la gent._n say_v that_o we_o be_v plain_o forbid_v to_o use_v that_o deceitful_a art_n of_o paint_v or_o image-making_a and_o we_o have_v no_o