Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	bishop_n	church_n	cyprian_n	2,093	5	10.8624	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A47791	God's Sabbath before, under the law and under the Gospel briefly vindicated from novell and heterodox assertions / by Hamon L'Estrange ...	L'Estrange, Hamon, 1605-1660.	1641 (1641)	Wing L1188; ESTC R14890	92,840	157

the Apostles abrogated it without expresse warrant from God they did it as Pastours and their Pastorall constitutions by your rule ought not oblige the Church for ever But let us take view of the proofs which confirm this your distinction First you say the Apostles considered as Pastours were subject to mistake as appeareth by Saint Peter who living at Antioch as a Pastour was justly reproved by Saint Paul for not walking as behoved a Pastour And Paul and Barnabas dissented from one another and that in such heat as it maketh it apparent they were not both if either directed by the Spirit I answer That Peter and the other two Apostles were too blame I not deny but were they in Cathedra or doing any Pastorall work assuredly No He offended about the choice of meat these about the choice of a companion which are not things relating to the Pastorall office And for ought I see you may as well argue Such a Minister is a temporizer Such and such a Pastour were cholerick one with another Ergò they preach false doctrine and so transferre the faults of the Person to the office or calling Secondly you instance in places of Scripture where you bring in the Apostle speaking some things of himself not as dictates of Gods Spirit I speak this by permission not of commandment vers. 6. To the rest speak I not the Lord vers. 12. And I have no commandment of the Lord vers. 25. And I give my judgement vers. 40. I answer Your first is nothing ad oppositum for the Apostle there distinguisheth not his permissive counsel from Christs command In the following Text where S. Paul is said to speak and not the Lord it is onely meant that Christ did not expresly determine the doubt whilest he conversed on earth it being not then on foot and this is the solution of the 25. verse also Where it is said verse 40. I give my judgement we must not think it to proceed from his own head but dictated by the Spirit and so by way of precaution he telleth us I think I have the Spirit of God Nor do these words I think imply as though the Apostle were not confident of it but by way of Irony seem to gird those who boasted of extraordinary illumination and this is the constant interpretation of all learned Expositours Let us now see how you distinguish Apostolicall Traditions These you say are either such as they received immediately from Christ or such as were suggested to them by the Spirit the first you say they delivered as Apostles and they are therefore Divine the other as Pastours and may be dispensed with I did expect you would have derived this distinction from the Primitive Fathers or some reformed Writers men of some credit with us but I see you are put to hard shifts and are glad to appeal to them whom we renounce as incompetent judges the Papists But you say according to this sense you find the Fathers speak of Traditions Your talk of Fathers at first affrighted me till I saw your instance onely attain a bare singular number But what find you in Cyprian your Fathers or universall particular when Stephen accused his Anabaptisme for novelty and repugnant to the ancient Tradition True saith Cyprian but whence is this Tradition from Christ in the Gospel or from the Apostles in their Epistles For what is written must be observed There you say we have the first kind But elsewhere Saint Cyprian saith that the choice of Bishops and Ministers in the presence and with the approbation of the people was of Divine and Apostolicall Tradition Now who seeth not that here Saint Cyprian speaketh of those other Traditions delivered and practiced by the Apostles as the Churches Pastours which are no longer in force then the Church you forget your self you mean the Pope for so your Canus singeth shall like I answer what you see I know not this I dare affirm that whosoever shall behold directly and with equall angles this passage of Cyprian will clearly discern these two things First that he couples Divine and Apostolicall Traditions together Secondly that he annexeth to Apostolicall Tradition an observandum tenendum est it must be observed which implieth their perpetuall Obligation and by both these Cyprian will be discovered to differ from your assertion secundùm terminos oppositos as wide as may be And whereas you would enforce your interpretation upon us as agreeable to the mind of this Father from an assurance that such a choice of Bishops and Ministers is neither delivered in the Gospel the Acts or the Epistles the thing is not so evident as you perswade yea the contrary is the more probable for Acts 14. vers. 23. where it is said they had ordained them Elders in every Church the word is {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which most properly implieth that the suffrage of the Laity was used therein Mistake me not I say not the Popular vote made but onely confirmed the Election to chuse is one thing to ratifie the choice made another therefore to commentatours and others who render the word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} To elect by Popular suffrage I cannot subscribe The energy of the word may best be collected from Junius his description thereof Chirotony saith he is a signification of suffrage by the hand the people being entreated thereto by the common cryer in this form {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Let him that approveth not of this lift up his hand And in like manner I have observed Xenophon a bespeaking his Souldiers {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} This description with some small elucidation will give you a plenary notion of the Athenian Chirotony For further illustration therefore you must know that regularly in whatsoever thing this Popular suffrage was required the matter it self was first debated and resolved upon by the Nomothetes or Legislatours in their counsel-house and after such consultation it was then posted up in the most remarkable place of the Citie some few dayes to the end the people might have time to consider of it which time elapsed the common cryer in open Market propounded it to the people next an Oration b was made to them wherein the convenience and necessitie of the thing offered was laid open that Oration ended the people were last demanded by the publick cryer their vote ut suprà according to whose suffrage the businesse in agitation or stood or fell Conformable to this custome Apostolicall practice in the ordaining Ministers most probably was viz. That they first chose the men and then presented them to the people who if they had any thing to oppose against them were then required to declare it And this is the rather likely because the Primitive Church curious in imitating Apostolick usage did universally a observe the same order which is still retained also in our