reason that in the primitiue Church for euery mortall sinne men vvere vvonte to doe penance many yeares and that novv deuotion and charity is vvaxen so cold that one man vvill sometimes coÌ„mitt tvveÌ„ty or forty mortall sinnes in one yeare and by that accompte de serue aÌ„ 100. sometimes a 1000. yeares of penaunce excepte penances vveare shortened and pardons enlarged in this fraylty of man it vvould be harde to giue God and the Church satisfaction M. Truly so it is and more is the pitty but hereby vve see hovv iustly vvee call the Church our mother and the Pope our father seeinge they deale so gently vvith vs. But lett vs goe forvvard vvith the Creede and tell me the meaninge of the sixt Article D. The sixt article is He ascended in to heauen and sitteth on the right hand of God the father almightie VVhich ascensioÌ„ beinge full fortie dayes after his Resurrection doth so assure vs of the verity of all the mysteryes of his lyfe and passion as there can be no further doubt of them and this as the conclusion of the reste doth manifestly assure vs of the greate glorie and majestie vvhich novv he retaineth in heauen M. And vvhat meaneth it to say that Christ after his ascension sitteth on the right hand of God the father hath God the father any right hand D. No sir for he is a spirite and hath no bodie but vvhen vve say he sitteth on the right hand the meaninge is that Christ in that be is God hath the same glorie honor povver vvith his father not inferior nor superior but equall and in that he is man God the father hath giuen him more glorie honor and povver then to all the Angels and saintes in heauen M. Let vs come to the seauenth article vvhich is From thence he shall come to iudge the quicke the dead Doe you Knovve hovv this iudgment shal be D. Yea Sir for it shal be as saint Paule sayeth in greate terrour and majestye in the Voice and trumpet of an Angell at vvhat tyme the vvhole vvorld shal be destroyed vvhith fire as it vvas vvith vvater in the deluge vvhich day no man shall Knovv hovv neare or farre it is of the dead shall rise and those that are then liuinge shall presently die and sodainly rise againe to the ende they may haue their due to death At vvhich tyme shal cease dayes and nightes mariadge and merchandise and all these other things vvhich vve novv see vsed in this vvorlde M. To vvhat purpose then shall those be iudged vvhich haue alreadie in the hovvre of their death receiued their final sentence and verdicte D. For diuers causes and first because the bodie vvith the soule shall haue his iudgment of paine and glorie euerlastinge vvhich before it had not Secondly for the glorie of Christes saintes vvhich as they vveare in this vvorld persecuted and euell intreated so there they shal be in the sight of the vvhole vvorld by God glorified Thirdly for the glorie of Christe because hauing been vnjustly coÌ„demned of many neither Knovvne not honoured as vvas conuenient so is it good reason that there should come a day vvherin the vvhole vvorld eyther by loue or force should both Knovve him and honour him as their Kinge lord and soueraigne Fourthelie for the confusion of the proude enemies of God Lastly for the glorie of God him selfe against all Atheistes and incredulous persons vvho measuringe Gods prouideÌ„ce by their ovvne carnall desires because they see often tymes the just to be afflicted and the vvicked to lyue in prosperitie thinke that God doth not vvell gouerne this vvorld But then they shall see that all this hath been by Gods highe vvisedome and goodnesse vvherby he shall there as justly condemne the vvicked for their sinnes as he doth here in this lyfe revvarde their slender good vvorkes vvith temporall coÌ„modities As contraryvvise his servantes in this lyfe be punished for small offences to enriche them in the nexte for their good vvorkes vvhith an infinite treasure of glorie M. VVhat is comprised in the eyght article I beleeue in the holy ghoaste D. That the holy ghoast the thirde person of the holie Trinitye is the same God of aequall povver vvhith the father and the sonne the other tvvo persons of the blessed Trinitye And he is called the holy ghoast or spirite because all other spirites vvhether of men or Angels though neuer so holy haue of him receaued all their sanctification to vvhose goodnes are also attributed all other giftes and graces of God vvhich are reparted in the vvhole Catholique Churche M. VVhat meaneth it that the holy ghoast is painted in the forme of a doue and some times in the forme of fier and clouen tongues D. Not because the holy ghoast hath any corporall forme or shape of him selfe but to represente vnto vs in the doue the holy simplicitie puritie and zeale of those soules vvhich he replenisheth And in the fiery tongues is signified the comminge dovvne of the holy ghoast ten dayes after Christes Ascension vpon his Apostles and disciples vvhome he then filled vvhith all Kinde of Knovvledge vvhich is signified by the light of that fier vvith charitie vvhich is signified by the burninge flames of the same and thirdly vvith eloquence vvhich is signified by the fierie tongues all vvhich vvere necessarie for the publishing and propagation of his gospell M. Novv then declare vnto me the ninth article I beleeue the holy Catholique Church the communion of saintes Hovv doe you beleeue the holy Catholique Church and hovv shall vve be able to distinguishe it froÌ„ all other synagogues and heretical congregations D. I beleeue the Catholique Church as our deare louinge mother vvhich therfore vvill neuer deceive vs and credite her as Christes true spouse vvhich therfore can not erre for the vvhich also saint Paule calleth her the piller and firmament or foundatioÌ„ of truth and to vvhome our Sauiour ascendinge in to heauen promised the holy ghoast to remaine vvith her and to instruct and teache her all truth M. And vvhat signes can you giue me vvhearby I may Knovve vvhich is the Catholique Church D. Those vvhich this holy Creede and the Creede of the counsell of Nice doth put vvhich are infallible and sufficient M. VVhich are those D. These foure Vnam Sanctam The signes of the â—â—â—e Church Catholicam Apostolicom That is to say in English One Holy Catholique and Apostolick To the vvhich vve may adde the fifte Romanam That is the Romaine M. VVhy may not the hereticKes say the same of theyr Church also D. No for they first are not one The first signe One See Vinc. â—yrinens Tertull. Epiphan Philastr Augus Cypr. contra haereses Ephe. 4. versi 5. because they are deuided into many sects and some are Lutherans some Caluinists some Puritans some Protestantes others of the familie of loue and so forth and as Bozius de sig Eccl. recordeth in these fevve yeares since Martin Luther fled
father and the children are all one in the title of inheritance and as the churches body continued after saint Peter so her head must needes continue also on earth M. Saint Peter at Rome 1. Petr. 5. Irinae lib. 3. c. 3. Tert. de praescri et in Scor. Clem Alex. 7 Strom Euseb Ecclesiast his lib. 2. c. 14. 15. Hieron de Scriptor Eccles Cypr. lib. 1. Ep. 3. Aug. coÌ„tra Petilia l. 1. c. 51. et Ep. 91. 93. 164 Amb. ser 66. Nicephor lib. 2. c. 36. You make no doubt then that saint Peter vvas the first Bishops or poPe of Rome D. None at all sir For as much as it vveare madnes to call it in question beinge so certaine a matter and so receiued amongest all Christians as any other article of our faith as all histories and auncient and moderne vvriters do testifie and to this day ther remaine manifest arguments of the same in Rome M. VVhy have you any relique of his in that citie D. VVe have both his and saint Paules vvhole bodies and their heades ar yeat to be seene vvher are extant the most sumptuous and auncient teÌ„ples in the vvorld built ouer them for their memories saint Paule beinge beheaded by the svvord the same day that saint Peter vvas crucified vnder the vvicKed Emperour Nero after that he had been Bishope tvventie and fiue yeares of that cittie M. You haue reason but lett vs returne to our first purpose of the Creed And first tell me 〈◊〉 other 〈◊〉 vvhen he been 〈…〉 hovv many articles there bee of yt D. Ther be tvvelue vvhearof the first belongeth to the father the six follovvinge to the sonne and the last fiue to the holy ghoast vvhich are the three persons of the blessed Trinitye M. VVhat is the mystery of the holy Trinitye D. Truly sir that is to deepe a question for me to expounde But it is sufficient The Blessed Trinitye for me to beleeue that vvhich the Churche doth teach vvhich is that the blessed Trinitye is three persons one God only M. Yt is vvell ansvvered but do you Knovve no similitude by the vvhich you may in some manneâ— declare it D. Yes for sooth for as our soule beinge but on alone yet hath iâ— three povvers to vvitâ— vnderstandinge memorie and vvill vvhich povvers are all one things vvith the soule euen so the persons of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghoast are all three one God M. The similitude is good but let vs speake a vvorde or tvvo 〈◊〉 euerie article by it selfe And first vvhat doe you professe by the first article D. I professe and beleeue that theâ— is a God although vve doe noâ— see him vvith our corporall eies and that this God is one only and therfore it is sayde beleeue in God and not in Gods vvho filleth ruleth gouerneth seeth and knovveth all thinges euen the most secret thoughtes of mans hart And therfore vvorthely called Almightie and Maker of heauen and earth because in deede he hath created of nothinge them both and all creatures that in them are conteyned and can also if he list reduce them to nothinge Yea if he did not coÌ„tinually sustain and vphold theÌ„ they vvould returne to nothinge of vvhich they vvere made And therfore the conseruation gouerment order and beinge of these creatures do inferr of necessity the infinite povver vvisdome goodnesse of almighty god vvithout vvhoÌ„ no creature could haue had beginniÌ„ge this the very heathens Aristotle and others of good vnderstaÌ„ding did coÌ„preheÌ„d M. And vvhat is meant by the secoÌ„d article And in Iesus Christe his onely sonne oure Lorde D. It is geuen vs to vnderstand that our Sauiour Iesus Christ is the true and onley sonne of God and to him coaequall and coaeternall the vvhich is called our lorde first because he hath joyntelye vvith his father created vs and so remaineth our lord and maister as much as his father and furthermore for that vvith his laboures and passioÌ„ he hath bought vs from the bondage of the deuill M. But tell me the meaninge of the thirde article hovv is it saide that he vvas Borne of the Virgen Marie The mystery of the IncarnatioÌ„ Isai 9. Mat. 1 Ioan. 1. Luc. 1 Rom. 81. Cor. 6.1 Petri. 6. and conceiued of the holy ghoast D. Because this sonne of God and seconde person of the holy Trinitie by the vvorKe and vertue of t e holy ghoast in the vvombe of the Virgen Marie our blessed Ladie tooKe and vnited to the person of his diuinitie our humaine nature that is a true bodie and soule eueÌ„ as ours is and so remayninge still God as he vvas became also by his incarnation true Man So that as in his deuine generation he had no father but taKinge of her the vvhole substance of his bodye proceeded from her in his birth vvith out detrimente of her virginity even as in his resurrection he came foorth of the sepulchre vvith out openinge the seale and closure therof M. And vvhat is conteyned in the fourth article He suffered vnder Pontius Pilate vvas crucified dead and buried D. The most profitable mystery of our RedeÌ„ption for the greatnesse of the offence and iniurie done vnto Gods maiestie required a satisfaction of infinite valure and dignitie vvhich none beinge able but God to performe Christ beinge true God and man did by his death on the Crosse most fullie accomplish vvypinge avvay oure sinnes vvith his pretious bloode passion and giuinge vs vvithall therein a most liuely paterne example of his vertue especially of his patiâ—nce his humility his obedience and his exceedinge charity M. If Christ hath satisfied his father for the sinnes of all meÌ„ hovv coÌ„meth it to passe that so manie are damned that vve haue so much neede to doe penance for our sinnes vvas not the passion of Christ sufficient D. Yes but as Christ hath satisfied for all sinners so it is necessary to applie this satisfaction in particular to euerie one that desireth to bee partaker of so great a benifite And this is doen by faith vvith vse of the SacrameÌ„ts vvith good vvorkes and particularly vvith penaÌ„ce and therfore althoughe Christ hath suffered and satisfied for vs vve must notvvithstanding if vvee vvill not be daÌ„ned apply by penaÌ„ce the same to vs. M. I like your aunsvver vvell but tell me haue you neuer hearde any example that may giue light to this doctrine D. No truly sir but I vvolud be glad to learne it M. VVhy then take this example If ther vvere one Man that for Charitye vvould take such paynes laboure as by his indeuours he might gaine monye sufficient to pay all the debts of this citty and should put it all in one treasure house to the ende it might be geuen to all those that should briÌ„ge a vvritte or bill of receit froÌ„ him This Man no doubt on his parte might be truly said to haue satisfied for all and yet manie might remaine skill indebted
haue mercy vpon vs Inuocation of Saintes Vide 1. Reg. 15 4. Reg. 5. Iob. 5.2 Machab. 1.15 Isai 37. Iob. 12. Dan. 10. Ierem. 15 Matt. 18. Ps 67.1 Cor 14. Apoc. 17 21. Orig. l. 8. coÌ„t Celsum Cypr. serm de mâ—rtali Baâ—il â—o in 40. marty Naz. in Câ—pâ— Athan. Basil Hieron cont Vigilant Athan ser 2. de deipara Ambros lib. de vi dais orat 2. in mort fâ—at Aug. lib. 7. de bapt coÌ„tra donat cap. 1. Greg. lib. 12. moral cap. 13 c. because vve Knovve shee is but a creature M. VVhy if shee be but a creature as all other saintes are hovv is it not an injury to God to praye vnto any other but to him sith he hath inuited vs sayenge come vnto me all you that are loaden c. VVhereby it shoulde seeme vve haue no neede to seeke to any other mediator D. You say vvell if by prayenge to saintes vve forsooke God but beinge that therefore vve praye vnto the saintes because vve maye the more easily and speedely come vnto him and be the better accepted of him there is no doubt of dishonouringe God vvhile vve praye vnto them vvhom he him selfe hath glorified and vvoulde they should be of all creatures honoured euen as it is no diminishinge but rather encreasinge of any Princes maiesty to haue many honourable seruantes and subjectes and to make remonstrance that he doth esteeme them M. But hovv can the saintes and AuÌ„gels see vs or heare our prayers D. By seeinge God in vvhom they see and heare allthinges pertaininge vnto them For if vve knovve that the holy Prophetes vvhile they year liued could see and heare all thinges that God reuealed vnto them though they vveare farre distant or longe after to come muche more vvee are to beleeue the same of the saintes and Angels vvhich are still in Gods presence M. But doth not the Scripture attribute this title vnto God only that he knovveth and searcheth the harte and reynes hovv then can the saintes beinge creatures haue so greate a priuilege D. Sir it is true that God onely hath this attribute of his ovvne povver or puissance and therefore the saintes not of them selues but in him and by his reuelation doe knovve the hartes thoughtes of others yea and mortall men may knovve allso all the secretes of my harte if God should disclose the same vnto them M. I like very vvell of your ansvvere But then I vvoulde faine knovve the cause vvhy the heretiques doe so much impugne this pointe and especially the honoure done vnto the blessed Virgen Marie D The reason is manifest For the Scripture saith that God vvould put enmitye betvveen the seede of the vvoman and the seede of the serpent as heretikes are falsely impugninge the true prayse and honoure due to our blessed Lady as allso diuers of the Sacramentes good vvorkes penauÌ„ce purgatorie and suche like especiall helpes for mans saluatioÌ„ Yea supposing the vnsatiable enuye and hatred that the devill hath against CHRIST and all that is his it is no marvell that the heretiques vvho as Saint Polycarpus calleth them be primogeniti Diaboli do hate and oppugne the honour of our blessed Lady vvho hath so strait and neare allyance vvith our Sauiour And hovv can it othervvise be but that those vvho possessed vvith the vncleane spirite haue no other scope of theyr vvhole lyfe and Religion but meere liberty and sensuality should be vvithout deuotion to her vvhich is the true Maistres mother and mirrhour of all chastity and purity Besides that she hauinge alvvayes bene the bane and overthrovv of heretiques in all ages no vvonder if they vvho are nothing els but a fardell and nevv broode of ould heresyes are guyded by the same spirite that theyr forfathers vvere and vse the same malignity againste her that those vsed M. Truly it is so But tell me hath the Church any vsuall prayer to the saintes and especially to our Ladie D. To the saintes vve vse the letanies and other deuoute prayers in particular but to the blessed Virgen the principall is the Aue Marie M. I pray you say the same Vide Athan. serm de deipara Ambros Luc. 1. Chrysost in liturgia Aug. ser 2. de annuÌ„cia Fulg. serm de laudibus Mariae Bern. ho. 5. in missus est c. D. Hayle Marie full of grace our lord is vvith thee blessed art thou amoÌ„gest all vvomen and blessed is the fruyte of thy vvombe IESVS holye Marie mother of God pray for vs sinners novv and in the hovver of our death Amen M. Tell me vvho made this Aue Marie D. Our holy mother the Church takinge the vvordes of the Angell Gabriel vvhen he came to salute our Lady the Virgen Marie and some of the vvordes of sainte Elizabeth in her visitation and the rest is added by the Church so as consideringe that all these vvordes beinge eyther of God by his Angell Gabriel Oure Blessed Ladie vvithout sinne See S. Damas orat 11. de natiu virg et orat 2. 3. l. 3. de fid c. 2. D. Laure. Iustin ser de annuncia lib. de cast coÌ„ animae cap. 7. in fascic amo c. 7. IdiotaÌ„ de conteÌ„pl Virg. c. 2. 6 SeduliuÌ„ lib. 2 paschal S. VinceÌ„t Fer. serm 1. de natiu 2. de nati virg D. Aug. lib. de nat gra cap. 36. c. 5. coÌ„t Iulian. c. 9. S. Cypr. de Card. op Christi c. de nati Christi Amb. ser 22. in Ps 118. D. Hierony in cap. 10. Eccl. Sophro. Ep. Synod in 6. syn act 11. S. Brun. in Ps 101. Richard Victor in cant cap. 26. 42. lib. 1. de Emanuel c. vlt. Pet. Daemia ser de natiu virg serm de annunc Arator lib. 1. in Act. Apost D. Iacob in Liturg. cit a 6. syn cant 32. 7. syn act 3. Conc. Francford Ep. ad epÌ„os Hispa Origen bo 1. ex var. Andre Cretens serm de assumpt Euthiâ—â—i serm de zon virg D. Ansel lib. de concep vir c. 18. cit a D. Th. in 1. d. 44. q. vnic ar 3. Theodoret. l. 3. in cant Irenae l. 3. coÌ„t haer cap. 35. Hippol. orat de sanctificat Cyril bo 6. in Concil Ephes Epipha haer 78. Innoc. 3. serm 2. de assumpt Hesyc Concio 2. de B. V. FulbertuÌ„ Carn ex Canis lib. 1. cap. 7. Ansel lib. de excell virg cap. 9. SS Basil Chrysostom in suis liturg c. or of the holy ghoast by the mouth of Sainte Elizabeth and his spouse the Catholique Church vve may justely say that this prayer vvas made by God him selfe or by the holye ghoast M. VVhat doe you thinke vvorthe the nothinge in this Aue Marie D. Besides the petitioÌ„ I note fovvre especiall prayses and commendations of our Blessed Ladie M. VVhich be they D. The first in those vvordes Full of grace for in this shee did so a bounde that shee neuer had in her soule any blotte or staine