father and the children are all one in the title of inheritance and as the churches body continued after saint Peter so her head must needes continue also on earth M. Saint Peter at Rome 1. Petr. 5. Irinae lib. 3. c. 3. Tert. de praescri et in Scor. Clem Alex. 7 Strom Euseb Ecclesiast his lib. 2. c. 14. 15. Hieron de Scriptor Eccles Cypr. lib. 1. Ep. 3. Aug. coÌ„tra Petilia l. 1. c. 51. et Ep. 91. 93. 164 Amb. ser 66. Nicephor lib. 2. c. 36. You make no doubt then that saint Peter vvas the first Bishops or poPe of Rome D. None at all sir For as much as it vveare madnes to call it in question beinge so certaine a matter and so receiued amongest all Christians as any other article of our faith as all histories and auncient and moderne vvriters do testifie and to this day ther remaine manifest arguments of the same in Rome M. VVhy have you any relique of his in that citie D. VVe have both his and saint Paules vvhole bodies and their heades ar yeat to be seene vvher are extant the most sumptuous and auncient teÌ„ples in the vvorld built ouer them for their memories saint Paule beinge beheaded by the svvord the same day that saint Peter vvas crucified vnder the vvicKed Emperour Nero after that he had been Bishope tvventie and fiue yeares of that cittie M. You haue reason but lett vs returne to our first purpose of the Creed And first tell me 〈◊〉 other 〈◊〉 vvhen he been 〈…〉 hovv many articles there bee of yt D. Ther be tvvelue vvhearof the first belongeth to the father the six follovvinge to the sonne and the last fiue to the holy ghoast vvhich are the three persons of the blessed Trinitye M. VVhat is the mystery of the holy Trinitye D. Truly sir that is to deepe a question for me to expounde But it is sufficient The Blessed Trinitye for me to beleeue that vvhich the Churche doth teach vvhich is that the blessed Trinitye is three persons one God only M. Yt is vvell ansvvered but do you Knovve no similitude by the vvhich you may in some manneâ— declare it D. Yes for sooth for as our soule beinge but on alone yet hath iâ— three povvers to vvitâ— vnderstandinge memorie and vvill vvhich povvers are all one things vvith the soule euen so the persons of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghoast are all three one God M. The similitude is good but let vs speake a vvorde or tvvo 〈◊〉 euerie article by it selfe And first vvhat doe you professe by the first article D. I professe and beleeue that theâ— is a God although vve doe noâ— see him vvith our corporall eies and that this God is one only and therfore it is sayde beleeue in God and not in Gods vvho filleth ruleth gouerneth seeth and knovveth all thinges euen the most secret thoughtes of mans hart And therfore vvorthely called Almightie and Maker of heauen and earth because in deede he hath created of nothinge them both and all creatures that in them are conteyned and can also if he list reduce them to nothinge Yea if he did not coÌ„tinually sustain and vphold theÌ„ they vvould returne to nothinge of vvhich they vvere made And therfore the conseruation gouerment order and beinge of these creatures do inferr of necessity the infinite povver vvisdome goodnesse of almighty god vvithout vvhoÌ„ no creature could haue had beginniÌ„ge this the very heathens Aristotle and others of good vnderstaÌ„ding did coÌ„preheÌ„d M. And vvhat is meant by the secoÌ„d article And in Iesus Christe his onely sonne oure Lorde D. It is geuen vs to vnderstand that our Sauiour Iesus Christ is the true and onley sonne of God and to him coaequall and coaeternall the vvhich is called our lorde first because he hath joyntelye vvith his father created vs and so remaineth our lord and maister as much as his father and furthermore for that vvith his laboures and passioÌ„ he hath bought vs from the bondage of the deuill M. But tell me the meaninge of the thirde article hovv is it saide that he vvas Borne of the Virgen Marie The mystery of the IncarnatioÌ„ Isai 9. Mat. 1 Ioan. 1. Luc. 1 Rom. 81. Cor. 6.1 Petri. 6. and conceiued of the holy ghoast D. Because this sonne of God and seconde person of the holy Trinitie by the vvorKe and vertue of t e holy ghoast in the vvombe of the Virgen Marie our blessed Ladie tooKe and vnited to the person of his diuinitie our humaine nature that is a true bodie and soule eueÌ„ as ours is and so remayninge still God as he vvas became also by his incarnation true Man So that as in his deuine generation he had no father but taKinge of her the vvhole substance of his bodye proceeded from her in his birth vvith out detrimente of her virginity even as in his resurrection he came foorth of the sepulchre vvith out openinge the seale and closure therof M. And vvhat is conteyned in the fourth article He suffered vnder Pontius Pilate vvas crucified dead and buried D. The most profitable mystery of our RedeÌ„ption for the greatnesse of the offence and iniurie done vnto Gods maiestie required a satisfaction of infinite valure and dignitie vvhich none beinge able but God to performe Christ beinge true God and man did by his death on the Crosse most fullie accomplish vvypinge avvay oure sinnes vvith his pretious bloode passion and giuinge vs vvithall therein a most liuely paterne example of his vertue especially of his patiâ—nce his humility his obedience and his exceedinge charity M. If Christ hath satisfied his father for the sinnes of all meÌ„ hovv coÌ„meth it to passe that so manie are damned that vve haue so much neede to doe penance for our sinnes vvas not the passion of Christ sufficient D. Yes but as Christ hath satisfied for all sinners so it is necessary to applie this satisfaction in particular to euerie one that desireth to bee partaker of so great a benifite And this is doen by faith vvith vse of the SacrameÌ„ts vvith good vvorkes and particularly vvith penaÌ„ce and therfore althoughe Christ hath suffered and satisfied for vs vve must notvvithstanding if vvee vvill not be daÌ„ned apply by penaÌ„ce the same to vs. M. I like your aunsvver vvell but tell me haue you neuer hearde any example that may giue light to this doctrine D. No truly sir but I vvolud be glad to learne it M. VVhy then take this example If ther vvere one Man that for Charitye vvould take such paynes laboure as by his indeuours he might gaine monye sufficient to pay all the debts of this citty and should put it all in one treasure house to the ende it might be geuen to all those that should briÌ„ge a vvritte or bill of receit froÌ„ him This Man no doubt on his parte might be truly said to haue satisfied for all and yet manie might remaine skill indebted
reason that in the primitiue Church for euery mortall sinne men vvere vvonte to doe penance many yeares and that novv deuotion and charity is vvaxen so cold that one man vvill sometimes coÌ„mitt tvveÌ„ty or forty mortall sinnes in one yeare and by that accompte de serue aÌ„ 100. sometimes a 1000. yeares of penaunce excepte penances vveare shortened and pardons enlarged in this fraylty of man it vvould be harde to giue God and the Church satisfaction M. Truly so it is and more is the pitty but hereby vve see hovv iustly vvee call the Church our mother and the Pope our father seeinge they deale so gently vvith vs. But lett vs goe forvvard vvith the Creede and tell me the meaninge of the sixt Article D. The sixt article is He ascended in to heauen and sitteth on the right hand of God the father almightie VVhich ascensioÌ„ beinge full fortie dayes after his Resurrection doth so assure vs of the verity of all the mysteryes of his lyfe and passion as there can be no further doubt of them and this as the conclusion of the reste doth manifestly assure vs of the greate glorie and majestie vvhich novv he retaineth in heauen M. And vvhat meaneth it to say that Christ after his ascension sitteth on the right hand of God the father hath God the father any right hand D. No sir for he is a spirite and hath no bodie but vvhen vve say he sitteth on the right hand the meaninge is that Christ in that be is God hath the same glorie honor povver vvith his father not inferior nor superior but equall and in that he is man God the father hath giuen him more glorie honor and povver then to all the Angels and saintes in heauen M. Let vs come to the seauenth article vvhich is From thence he shall come to iudge the quicke the dead Doe you Knovve hovv this iudgment shal be D. Yea Sir for it shal be as saint Paule sayeth in greate terrour and majestye in the Voice and trumpet of an Angell at vvhat tyme the vvhole vvorld shal be destroyed vvhith fire as it vvas vvith vvater in the deluge vvhich day no man shall Knovv hovv neare or farre it is of the dead shall rise and those that are then liuinge shall presently die and sodainly rise againe to the ende they may haue their due to death At vvhich tyme shal cease dayes and nightes mariadge and merchandise and all these other things vvhich vve novv see vsed in this vvorlde M. To vvhat purpose then shall those be iudged vvhich haue alreadie in the hovvre of their death receiued their final sentence and verdicte D. For diuers causes and first because the bodie vvith the soule shall haue his iudgment of paine and glorie euerlastinge vvhich before it had not Secondly for the glorie of Christes saintes vvhich as they vveare in this vvorld persecuted and euell intreated so there they shal be in the sight of the vvhole vvorld by God glorified Thirdly for the glorie of Christe because hauing been vnjustly coÌ„demned of many neither Knovvne not honoured as vvas conuenient so is it good reason that there should come a day vvherin the vvhole vvorld eyther by loue or force should both Knovve him and honour him as their Kinge lord and soueraigne Fourthelie for the confusion of the proude enemies of God Lastly for the glorie of God him selfe against all Atheistes and incredulous persons vvho measuringe Gods prouideÌ„ce by their ovvne carnall desires because they see often tymes the just to be afflicted and the vvicked to lyue in prosperitie thinke that God doth not vvell gouerne this vvorld But then they shall see that all this hath been by Gods highe vvisedome and goodnesse vvherby he shall there as justly condemne the vvicked for their sinnes as he doth here in this lyfe revvarde their slender good vvorkes vvith temporall coÌ„modities As contraryvvise his servantes in this lyfe be punished for small offences to enriche them in the nexte for their good vvorkes vvhith an infinite treasure of glorie M. VVhat is comprised in the eyght article I beleeue in the holy ghoaste D. That the holy ghoast the thirde person of the holie Trinitye is the same God of aequall povver vvhith the father and the sonne the other tvvo persons of the blessed Trinitye And he is called the holy ghoast or spirite because all other spirites vvhether of men or Angels though neuer so holy haue of him receaued all their sanctification to vvhose goodnes are also attributed all other giftes and graces of God vvhich are reparted in the vvhole Catholique Churche M. VVhat meaneth it that the holy ghoast is painted in the forme of a doue and some times in the forme of fier and clouen tongues D. Not because the holy ghoast hath any corporall forme or shape of him selfe but to represente vnto vs in the doue the holy simplicitie puritie and zeale of those soules vvhich he replenisheth And in the fiery tongues is signified the comminge dovvne of the holy ghoast ten dayes after Christes Ascension vpon his Apostles and disciples vvhome he then filled vvhith all Kinde of Knovvledge vvhich is signified by the light of that fier vvith charitie vvhich is signified by the burninge flames of the same and thirdly vvith eloquence vvhich is signified by the fierie tongues all vvhich vvere necessarie for the publishing and propagation of his gospell M. Novv then declare vnto me the ninth article I beleeue the holy Catholique Church the communion of saintes Hovv doe you beleeue the holy Catholique Church and hovv shall vve be able to distinguishe it froÌ„ all other synagogues and heretical congregations D. I beleeue the Catholique Church as our deare louinge mother vvhich therfore vvill neuer deceive vs and credite her as Christes true spouse vvhich therfore can not erre for the vvhich also saint Paule calleth her the piller and firmament or foundatioÌ„ of truth and to vvhome our Sauiour ascendinge in to heauen promised the holy ghoast to remaine vvith her and to instruct and teache her all truth M. And vvhat signes can you giue me vvhearby I may Knovve vvhich is the Catholique Church D. Those vvhich this holy Creede and the Creede of the counsell of Nice doth put vvhich are infallible and sufficient M. VVhich are those D. These foure Vnam Sanctam The signes of the â—â—â—e Church Catholicam Apostolicom That is to say in English One Holy Catholique and Apostolick To the vvhich vve may adde the fifte Romanam That is the Romaine M. VVhy may not the hereticKes say the same of theyr Church also D. No for they first are not one The first signe One See Vinc. â—yrinens Tertull. Epiphan Philastr Augus Cypr. contra haereses Ephe. 4. versi 5. because they are deuided into many sects and some are Lutherans some Caluinists some Puritans some Protestantes others of the familie of loue and so forth and as Bozius de sig Eccl. recordeth in these fevve yeares since Martin Luther fled
heretiques then such indeed may by reason of theyr naturall inclination to vertue and modesty be vvith holden from those excesses vvherunto other vvise theyr erroneous beleefe doth provoke theÌ„ as amongst the Moores Turks Ievves and other infidels some morall honest men are to be found But you shall never find that any man habituated accustomed to sinne hath bene coÌ„verted to vertue and holynesse of lyfe by the force of any Religion but only in by the Catholique fayth of vvhich are proprely vnderstood those vvordes of the Prophet Lex DnÌ„i iÌ„maculata coÌ„verteÌ„s animas the lavv of God is vnspotted and coÌ„verteth soules And by vvhich oÌ„ly meÌ„ become saintes gyving theyr lyues in testimony of this faith are truely called Martyrs of vvhose merites and of all other holy and spirituall benefittes and graces The communioÌ„ of Saintes Ps 118. Rom. 12.1 Cor. 12. 2. Cor. 8. Ephe. 4. Coloss 2. Philippens 1. IoaÌ„n 1. Aug. EnchiridioÌ„ c. 36 ser de tpe â—81 The Thirde signe Vniuersall Ps 2. versi 8. Mat. 28. Ma r. 16. Luc. 24. Cypr. l. de vnitale Ecclesiae Bas Epist 72. Hieron l. 4. in Isai c. 12. Anbros in Ps 39 Aug. in Ps 9 reg in regiset alibi all Good Catholiques as children of the same mother are made partakers VVhervpon allso folovveth an other article in the Creede The communion of Saintes M. So that there can be no saint nor Martyr excepte he be Catholique although he die for his Religion D. No vndoubtedly for it is not the punishment as S. Austine sayeth but the cause intention that maketh a Martyr M. VVel goe forvvard then vvith the other markes of the Church D. The thirde is the name Catholique vvhich signifieth Vniuersall and folovveth of the reason aboue said for that is the true faith and consequently must nedes be but one As vve see that it is receiued generally in the vvhole vvorlde amongst all nations vnto the farthest endes of the earth and hath florished in all ages euer since Christ The Fourth signe Apostolique Vide. D. Basil l. de Spir. S. c. 27. Tertul. de praescript cap 36. Leo. Pap. ser 1. de Petr. Paulo Irenae l. 3. adâ—â—rsus haereses c. 4. Aug. Epist 50. ad Bonifa ibi 1. ad HonoratuÌ„ tom 6. contra Ep. Fundam c. 4 l. 1. coÌ„tra CrescomiuÌ„ gramat c. 33. hist Triparsitam l. 9. c. 19. vvher as other sectes remaine in corners and as they breed of corruption so they dure not longe nor by any of them vvas euer any nation conuerted to Christ M. VVhich is the fourth marke D. This vvorde Apostolique for by continuall succession of Popes and Bishops from Christes Apostles vvee can proue that our Religion hath euer endured in the vvorlde neuer corrupted nor interrupted euen vnto this day vvhich no heretike can say but that he is presently conuinced of nouelty M. That is very true and especially of the sectaries of this age vvhich beganne all vvith their maister Luther in the yeare of our lord 1517. But tell me also the fifte and last note The fifte signe Romaine Vide Mat. 16 5. Leo. 5. Mar. in festuÌ„ Apostolor Orig tom 1. in proemio periarchen Anaclet Pap. Ep. 1. Chrysost de Aâ—â—st Petro Paulo Hieren Ep. ad Daâ—â—sum Terâ—ull de praescript cont haeret c. 36. vvhy doe you call it the Romaine faith D. Because saint Peter on vvhome as vpon a rocKe our Sauiour built his Church and promised that his faith should neuer faile saienge that hell gates should neuer preuaile against it first planted and possessed that seate togeather vvith saint Paule and aftervvardes they beinge the principall Apostles sealed the authority of the same vvith theyr glorious Martyrdome Since vvhen euen vnto the Pope novv lyuinge vvas neuer any heretique nor Apostata in that holy chayre and there haue beene in it many vvorthy saintes and Martyrs M. So that vvhosoeuer doth not buyld on this rocKe or builde besides it can not be constant nor assured in Religion D. Very true and moreouer he may be sure that his buildinge vvill perish as it appeareth in all the heresies of times past vvhich novv God be praysed are consumed though for a tyme they raged vvith sundry persecutions like vvaues of the sea against this vnmoueable rocke of our Religion And the lyKe ende I hope for shortly of all these present sectaries M. You haue great reason For heauen and earth shall passe but this vvorde and promise is euerlasstinge But tell me if the case so stande vvhat foundacion doe those seculare Princes builde vppon vvhich take vnto them selues the title of supremacie in Ecclesiasticall as vvell as ciuile affaires D. Vppon the sandes and shalovves of flatteringe courtiers and couetous politiques Cromvvel and Cranmer after vvar doe executed for traitoures K. Henry the. 8. deceiued by euil counsaile vvhich vvas the firste K. that eâ—â—er tooke the title of supremcye on him Hughe Latimer Peter Martir Martin Bucer Ridley c. â—o groâ— that eueÌ„ Caluin him selfe theire chiefe Catangeliste vvrote against yt repreheÌ„dinge therfore K. Harry thoughe vvith more libertie theÌ„ became so sleighte a CompanioÌ„ to speake of so potents a prince See his preface vppon Amoâ— vvho to enioye the fatte morsells of Abbey landes and Church goods first put this false persuasion in they re Princes heades soothinge theire rauenous pretensions vvith the vendible doctrine of hungrye ministers vvho for they re priuate interest enuye and ambition made sale of they re ovvn conscience and shipvvracke of the vvhole common vvealth by preachinge this grosse and erroneous paradox hauinge no one sentence vvorde or syllable in holy scripture or any aunciente vvriter for it M. VVhy doe not the scriptures often say that the Kinge is to be honoured and feared and the like D. I graunte yovv but vvhat coherence or consequence hath this vvith makinge the Kinge or Queen a Pope or Bishope or supreame head of the Church vvhich is all one seinge them selues graunte that a vvoman or seculare person thoughe a Prince can not doe the office of a prieste Pope or Bishope as to minister the Sacramentes preache in publike giue holy orders or the liKe vvhich are annexed and can not be denyed to him vvhich in truth is head of the Church no more then it can be denyed in ciuile affaires that a Kinge if he liste may supply the place of an Esquire Knighte Mayre or Constable or any other office vvhich is subordinate to him selfe in his ovvne Kingdome because the greater and superior povvre doth all vvayes include the lesser and the inferior jurisdiction M. If this be so those that be Catholiques and liue vnder suche a Prince as VVoulde take this title vpon him vvill hardelie be thoughte true subiectes for they re conscience beinge contrarye thervnto it seemeth to folovv that they serue they re Prince but by halues that is vvith they re bodies onlye D. Perhappes it seemeth so but in truth