hold That the Souls of the Faithful departed before Christs Resurrection did not enter into Heaven neither see the Face of God nor know the State of things here above them and therefore it was not usual in the Church to call upon them and say Holy Abraham pray for us Your Doctors hold a Bell. ib. c. 19. Notandum ante adventum Christi qui moriebantur non intrabant in Coelum non Deum videbant nec ordinarie poterant cognese preces sapplicantium That the Spirits of the Patriarchs and Prophets and People of God were shut up in Limbo Patrum as they call it in a subterraneous place the uppermost verge of Hell beneath us without pain and without joy in the Vision of God waiting for their redemtion out of that Prison by the coming of Christ who descended into Hell to set them at liberty and to conduct them triumphantly into Heaven When we urge that Text Isa 63. ver 16. Doubtless thou art our Father tho Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledgeth us not to shew how the Saints departed know not the Affairs and Transactions here below You answer So it was before Christs Ascension the Saints departed were not in Heaven until Christ opened the Kingdom to them but they were shut up from the Vision of God and from all knowledge of the concerns of this World and yet contrary to this their own Hypothesis you see how they give Instances of Moses and Samuel and Onias and Jeremiah praying for their People the Jews and sollicitous for them in their distress Phil. You may therefore observe the limitation of Bellarmine Non poterant ordinarie preces cognoscere c. In that state they understood not ordinarily the Affairs upon Earth nor heard the Prayers of the People but God might reveal them and so excite them to pray for the People upon which account some of our Doctors hold a Azorius Instit. Moral lib. 9. c. 9. Medina de Orat. Quaest 4. That Prayers might be made to the Fathers in Lymbo yea even to the Souls in Purgatory because they are in a state of Grace and Charity and by the gift of God or by the Ministery of Angels they may hear our Praiers Theoph. Upon the same ground we may daily implore the Assistance and Prayers of our Friends that are absent living at a great distance from us for God may reveal our Desires and Petitions to them but alas these are weak props and suppositions to uphold a feeble cause and hitherto your Learned Cardinal hath not bin demonstrative in the point Phil. Before we conclude I do not doubt but you shall change your note In the New Testament we read Rev. 5. 8. How the 24 Elders fall down before the Lamb having golden Viols full of Odors which are the Praiers of the Saints Theoph. What Argument can Bellarmin or you frame out of this Text I understand not his design Phil. Bellarmin shews how Interpreters understand by the Praiers of the Saints Intercessions made by the Saints in Heaven for the confirmation and support of their weak Brethren upon Earth Theoph. It seems then even the Saints in Glory make use of Mediators of the four Beasts and the twenty four Elders to present their Prayers to the Lamb. The more general Interpretation of that place is That these Odors filling the golden Vials are the Praiers of the Faithful upon Earth which are represented in the Psalm To ascend like the Incense Psal 141. ver 2. Phil. This gives as full testimony to our purpose as the other for thereby it appears the Praiers of the Saints on Earth are presented unto God and to the Lamb by the Saints and Angels in Heaven And to this effect we read Rev. 8. ver 3 4. how an Angel came and stood at the Altar having a golden Censer and there was given unto him much Incense that he should offer it with the Praiers of all Saints upon the golden Altar which was before the Throne And the smoke of the Incense which came with the Praiers of the Saints ascended up before God out of the Angels hand Now this Incense offered up with the Praiers of the Saints on Earth we may suppose are the Merits and Intercession of the Saints in Glory Theoph. And we may suppose they are the Merits and Intercession of Christ whom Primasius understands by the Angel in this place we know it is said expresly Heb. 9. 24. That Christ is entred into the Holiest of all into Heaven it self to appear in the presence of God for us and that by him we offer up to God continually our Sacrifices of Praise Heb. 13. 15. and without all peradventure he is most properly said to add Incense and sweet Odours to our Praiers and Praises because for his sake only they are acceptable to the Father However I cannot but observe what a leap your Cardinal hath taken over all the New Testament to produce his first and cheifest Arguments out of the Revelations of S t John for the Saints hearing and presenting our Prayers unto God purposely to involve himself and others in mysteries and visions which can admit no clear Interpretation neither become useful to lay the Foundation of a Doctrine which takes up the greatest part of the peoples devotions in the Church viz. of the Invocation of Saints In a like case S t Augustine cried out to the Donatists a A Ferte aliquid quod non egeat Interpret Bring forth such proofs as want no Interpretation Suppose I should undertake to prove That the Souls of the just departed are not in Heaven neither do enjoy a perfect state in bliss Rev. 6. vers 9. c. because when the fift seal was opened S t John saw under the Altar the Souls of the Martyrs of them that were slain for the word of God and for the Testimony which they held and they cried with a loud voice saying How long O Lord Holy and true dost thou not judg and avenge our blood upon them that dwell on the earth and white robes were given unto every one of them that they should rest yet for a little season until their fellow servants and their Brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled Suppose I should from the same Text urge that the Martyrs do expressly pray for Divine vengeance upon their enemies but no mention is made of any intercession for their Freinds you would not well approve Arguments drawn from such mysterious visions and Revelations and therefore do not your self make use of them b Tom. 30. in Epistolis ad Paulinum ad Marcellam S t Jerom tells us That the book of the Revelations hath as many mysteries as words and that the whole is to be understood in a spiritual sense and not literal Phil. These things were certainly written for our Instruction and Bellarmine very well argues That if the Saints in Heaven and Martyrs do pray for jugdment upon their
own copy was so faulty ut emendare non possim nec editum à me dici vellem And withal he asserts nothing but only saith here Job seems to call upon the Angels or the Saints that they would pray for him being penitent Angelos postulare videtur aut certè Sanctos ut pro paenitente orent Now Bellarmine himself will not grant the Saints deceased in those daies should be invocated besides the literal sense which I have given is cleer and therefore we look not further to the Allusions of Interpretors The third proof is a Text full of obscurity fit for the Cardinall to amuze his reader with out of the Original we read A Messenger or Interpreter one among a thousand who should shew unto Man his Duty and bring him to repentance and pray for him that the Lord may spare him As Isaiah praied for Hezekiah being sick saith Jerom. Gregorie the Great found no advantage or proof out of this Text for the Invocation of Saints or Angels altho he favour'd the opinion but interprets that of Christs Intercession The Septuagint mention a thousand Angels but not to your Cardinalls purpose but against it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. If there were a thousand destroying Angels yet not one of them shall wound him if he seriously purposeth in heart to return unto the Lord. And thus you see what blind arguments your Doctors urge to maintain their delusions if you are not better provided to prove the Invocation of Saints then you have been of Angels I could wish you to study our case and the reputation of your Doctors by conceling them Phil. You are very pleasant but I shall make you change your note you read how Moses did beseech God to spare his people for the sake and merits of their forefathers Remember Abraham and Isaac and Israel thy Servants to whom thou swearest by thine own self and saidst unto them I will multiplie your seed as the Stars of Heaven c. Theoph. In this Text Moses praies to God not to Patriarchs and therefore it doth not confirm your Doctrine of Saints Invocation Phil. It shews that they did allege the merits of the Saints departed as an help and advantage unto their prayers as Theodoret upon the place when Moses thought himself insufficient to appease the wrath of God he takes in the patronage of the Holy Patriarchs Therefore if they had not the benefit of their praiers as not being in the presence of God they did reap the fruits of their merits Theoph. There is a great mistake in this argument Moses doth not urge the merits of their forefathers but the Covenant God was pleas'd to make with them that he would multiply their seed and give them possession of the promised Land Of this promise he puts the Lord in remembrance that he would please to spare his people and perform the promise made to their forefathers So God promiseth unto the righteous that he will bless their seed unto many Generations Exod. 20. 6. Yet their children do not urge their Fathers merits but the gracious covenant of God As for the Testimony of Theodoret Bellarmine hath made it to his purpose by interposing Patrocinium a Faciens Patriarcharum mentionem Patriarcharum the patronage of the Patriachs instead of making mention of the Patriarchs and of the Covenant with them made beseeching God not to break the Covenant for these are Theodorets words Phil. The Cardinal shews this general answer touching Gods Covenant with the Patriarchs to be insufficient b Pactum Dei justitia Sanctorum simul commemorantur because we shall find express mention made of their righteousness together with the Covenant Lord remember David and all his meekness Psal 132. 1. and ver 10. For thy servant Davids sake turn not away the presence of thine Anointed saith Solomon For Davids sake and not only for the Covenant made with David Theoph. Express mention of that Covenant immediatly follows The Lord hath made a faithful oath unto David Of the Fruit of thy Body shall I set upon thy seat As tho he should have said Lord seeing thou were graciously pleased to make a Covenant with my Father David be pleased upon the same Motives to make good that Promise As for the first part Remember David and all his mansuetude and virtue so your vulgar Translation reads it But according to the Original it is thus rendred Remember David and all his troubles And then immediatly follows Davids vow to build an House unto the Lord and Gods Promise That one of his Sons should build him an House in remembrance whereof Solomon puts up his Supplication And after all you may consider how these Texts are impertinently urg'd making nothing for the Invocation of Saints the consideration of their Merits may fall in more seasonably hereafter Phil. c Ib. c. 19. Hoc Argumentum Adversarii nunquam solvere potuerunt Bellarmin hath one Argument more for the Invocation of Saints grounded upon the Word of God which he accounts unanswerable It is this We read the Faithful have requested the Praiers of the Saints living God himself sends Jobs three Friends to him to intercede for them Job 42. St. Paul beseecheth the Saints at Rome to help him with their Praiers Rom. 15. 30. and the like in many of his Epistles Therefore saith the Learned Cardinal it is lawful even now to call upon the same Saints reigning with Christ For if it be not as lawful to call upon them for the assistance of their Praiers now they are with God in Heaven as when they were living upon Earth It is either because First they are not willing or 2 ly are not able to pray for us or that because 3 dly They cannot hear and receive our Praiers or 4 thly Because their Intercession would be injurious to the Intercession of Christ The two first cannot be suppos'd because their Charity in Heaven is intended and enlarged and their Praiers more effectual neither the third Because as the Angels in Heaven know our state and can hear our Praiers so likewise the Blessed Saints nor the fourth Because as the Intercession and Praiers of the living for their Brethren and for all men are not injurious unto Christs Intercession so neither are the Praiers of the Saints departed Theoph. Alas This Achilles will prove a very Dwarf Your Cardinals unanswerable Argument is of no force First To answer it in general we must tell you That we have no warrant in Holy Scripture either of President or Precept to recommend our selves unto the Praiers of the dead as we have of the living and therefore the consequence holds not good from one to the other Bellarmine knew this well and was so wise to take no notice of it yet it is the main hinge whereupon our regular Devotions must turn even the rule of Holy Scripture wherein God hath reveal'd how and to whom we must direct our Praiers His Argument of four
That the Saints departed have as much charity to pray for us and that their Praiers are as prevalent with God But alas Death hath intercepted former commerce And his third Particular must be well prov'd or all will fall to the ground namely That the Saints in Heaven do hear our Praiers and know our particular needs otherwise it will be in vain to call for their assistance And this main Point your Cardinal doth but slightly touch and gives a short and fallible proof of it That because the Angels know the conversion of a sinner and rejoice thereat according to the saying of our Blessed Savior therefore likewise the blessed Saints do know our state and all our concerns Now we have already shew'd how the Consequence is weakly drawn from the knowledg of the Angels to the knowledg of the Saints in Heaven because the Angels are Gods Messengers ministring unto the heirs of Salvation they are imploi'd about us and know much of our concerns but of the Saints departed no such things are recorded And moreover doubtless the Angels themselves know not all the affairs of particular persons only of those about whom they are emploied and so far as God shall impart to them in their Embassage and Emploiments Phil. As they know the Conversion of every Sinner that repenteth and rejoice so do they know and hear the Praiers of all the Faithful especially such as do concern them and are particularly directed to them Theoph. We are much in the dark as to the measure and extent of their knowledg and must not in these things so much above us set one foot forward without the light and conduct and revelation of Gods Word Now we read in Holy Writ That the Angels have charge over us according as God has committed us unto them but how far and in what particulars is not revel'd We read They rejoice at the Conversion of a Sinner which way soever or whensoever for the improvement of their joy God is pleased to manifest it unto them perhaps by the relation of those Angels who were instrumental in the Conversion But from those Promises we cannot infer their universal Knowledg of Affairs here below and much less the universal Knowledg of the Saints in Heaven Methinks the Learned Cardinal should not so peremtorily have handled this grand Point upon which depends the Invocation of Saints for if they hear us not in vain certainly do we make our Praiers to them If they understand not our condition they cannot recommend it unto God If S t Peter knows not of any such Person as Philodoxus in being to no effect shall we beg his assistance Phil. Not so neither d Ibid. c. 20. Non frustra Sanctos à nobis Invocari etiamsi nec audiant nec agnosâ—ant preces nostras aliquis alius eorum vice fungitur Bellarmin expresly affirms That we do not pray for them in vain altho we shall grant they know not neither hear our Praiers for saith he some other may perform their office and we obtain the favor For many miraculous Instances are given in Church Records of many that have obtained their Requests whil'st they have applied themselves unto the Intercession of some Saint and therefore so we obtain our desires whil'st we pray unto them it is not material whether they hear or not it will concern us to call upon them Theoph. He had done well to point out this Aliquis alius Who is this Delegate of the Saints in Heaven to do their work whil'st themselves hear not our Prayers Whil'st we Invocate the Saints do the Angels help us The surest way then would be to apply our selves to them Doth God help us when we pray to the Saints altho it is high presumtion to make God the Saints Delegate qui eorum vice fungitur however if God helps such as pray to the Saints the most compendious course would be to call directly upon him and so did Christians in the Primitive and purest Times Ad memorias Martyrum at the Shrines and Monuments of Martyrs they did pray to God who was pleas'd to work many miraculous Cures at their Tombs in Testimony of the Faith which those Martyrs sealed with their Blood And this is the just account of the Miracles wrought by the Saints and Martyrs in Heaven at their Shrines here on Earth The Miracles were wrought by Almighty God before the Monuments of the Saints themselves not knowing of it as we shall shew hereafter out of S t Augustine his Book De cura pro Mortuis And yet from this Assertion of Bellarmin wherein I suppose he stands single That we pray not to the Saints in vain altho they do not hear us From this Assertion we must conclude him very inconsiderable and forgetful when immediatly after he approves this Consequence e Sancti recte in vocantur ergo sciunt quod petimus The Saints are immediatly call'd upon therefore they know what we ask One Supposition destroies the other If we may prudently and successfully pray to them altho they hear us not it cannot follow That if we rightly call upon them they do hear us Phil. The first Assertion of Bellarmin was by way of supposition not granted altho they hear us not yet we may profitably pray to them but he positively maintains That the Saints know humane affairs and do hear our Praiers f Quae solo cordis assectu proferuntur even such as are made only in the Heart altho there may be some dispute how they know and hear c. and he gives you the several Opinions of the Doctors Theoph. His former Supposition as we call it was ill put because it directly overthrows the Consequence which he immediatly after approves That because the Saints in Heaven are rightly Invocated therefore they do hear us But I pray proceed to shew how the Saints attain unto the knowledg of things beneath and even of our mental Praiers Phil. g Ibid. c. 20. Bellarmin proposeth four Opinions of the Doctors about the manner how the Saints in Heaven know Affairs beneath and hear the Praiers that are made unto them The first That they know them by the relation of Angels who are Messengers between Heaven and Earth The second That both Angels and Saints are in a sort every where present by the celerity and agility of their natures and so they understand the Affairs of the world and hear our Prayers And he cites S t Augustin for the first Opinion and Jerome for the second Theoph. He cites them very faintly Innuit Augustinus saith he S t Augustin intimates so much in his Book De cura pro Mortuis and there indeed the Father tells us The dead may hear of Affairs on Earth by the relation of Angels but he affirms not they do so and then they may hear some things related h Non quidem omnia sed quae sinuntur indicare but not all things And afterwards he declares Fatendum
est c. We must acknowledg that the dead do not know the things that are don upon Earth I shall give you a full account of this Book hereafter Next for S t Jerome Bellarmin saith he seems to say as much in his Book against Vigilantius where in truth the Father doth assert of the evil Angels That they wander far and wide thro-out the World and by their celerity are every where present But we must of necessity understand him only in a comparative sense their agility and swiftness makes them instantly to pass from place to place whereas gross Bodies required a slow and successive motion but Ubiquity and Omnipresence is an Attribute of God Incommunicable to a Creature Again These evil Angels may be conceiv'd present in all places by their numbers and multitude not by their individual persons Phil. But i Si Agnus est ubique ergo hi qui cum to sunt ubique sunt S t Jerome in that Book argues fully for the ubiquity of the Saints in Heaven because it is written of them That they follow the Lamb whither soever be goeth Rev. 14. 4. And if the Lamb be every where present therefore they that are with him Theoph. This Argument cannot hold for then much more the human Nature and Body of Christ united unto the Divine Nature should be omnipresent which I know none to assert and therefore S t Augustins Interpretation of that place is this k Lib. de Sancta Virginit c. 27. Quid est eum sequi nisi imitari To follow him is to imitate him not as he is the only Son of God by whom all things were made but as he is the Son of Man giving us an example of all things necessary to be sollowed Bellarmin knew well the Invalidity of S t Jeromes consequence and therefore did not urge it for an Argument Phil. But that you love to contradict and spin out your Discourse you need not have perplex'd your self and me with these Answers For you know Bellarmine approves of neither of these two ways of the Saints knowledg in Heaven Because saith he celerity cannot suffice but true ubiquity is requir'd to hear all the Praiers that shall be made to a Saint perhaps in all places of the World at the same time And again he saith That neither Angels nor Saints in Heaven altho they were present with us can naturally know our mental Praiers Theoph. We account these to be substantial Arguments against the Invocation of Saints and Angels because they cannot be every where present to hear Praiers made from all parts and because they know not our thoughts and mental Praiers Phil. But these are answer'd by the the two next ways he proposeth and approveth of the Saints comprehension and knowledg One is l Sanctos in Deo omnia videre quae ad ipsos aliquo modo tertinent That the Saints do sec all things in God that concerns them even from the first instant of their blessedness Theoph. I pray tell me why doth the Cardinal following Aquinas and other School-men put in that tearm of Limitation In the Face of God they see and know all things that concern them We know all things are in God and in him represented as in a Glass and Mirror and therefore Pope Gregory the Great asks the Question m Quid est quod ibi nesciant ubi scientem omnia sciunt What can they be ignorant of who know him that knoweth all things And therefore In speculo Trinitatis as the Schools speak in the Beatifical Vision one would think all things should be manifest to the Saints and Angels and not only such things as concern them Phil. The reason is plain God is Speculum voluntarium such a Glass as represents according to his good pleasure and what he thinks meet unto those who have the happiness to see his Face And therefore the Angels who alwaies behold the Face of God yet know not all things not the day of Judgment not the Mystery of Christs Incarnation and Mans Redemtion not the calling of the Gentiles c. until they learn'd these things by the Preaching of the Gospel amidst the Congregation of the Faithful so saith S t Paul Ephes 3. 10. To the end that now unto Principalities and Powers in Heavenly places might be known by the Church the manifold Wisdom of God Theoph. Your Answer is rational and excellently serves my purpose Such as see the Face of God do not in that Beatifical Vision see and know all things but only such things as pleaseth him to revele unto them And therefore the fourth Opinion which Bellarmin mentions was That God doth revele unto the Saints in every instant such Particulars as concern them and so when Praiers are made unto them the Lord makes the Blessed Saints to know and hear their Praiers by particular Revelation Hereupon I demand how this is prov'd That it is the good pleasure of God constantly to revele unto the Saints whatsoever doth concern them or all the Praiers that are made unto them Phil. I do not find the Cardinal attemts to prove this because he had reason to take it for granted Theoph. Or rather because he had no proof to offer and in truth he doth not so well approve this way of particular Revelation from God to the Saints because as he argues well n Si indigerent Sancti novâ revelatione Ecclesia non diceret omnibus Sanctis Orate pro nobis sed peteret aliquando à Deo ut eis revelaret preces nostras If the Saints know our Praiers which we make to them by Revelation from God we should not so constantly say to them Pray for us but rather somtimes beseech Almighty God that he would please to revele our Praiers to those Saints we Invocate Phil. He prefers that Opinion as most profitable That the Saints in Glory alwaies standing in the presence of God and beholding his Face do in that Beatificall Vision behold all things which relaâ—e unto them and need no particular Revelation and therefore in the Vision of God they know and hear the Praiers that are made unto them even from the first instant of their Beatitude Theoph. And so three waies Bellarmin doth not approve whereby the Saints and Angels are concern'd to know our state and hear our Praiers Now the fourth which he sticks too That from the first instant of their happiness all things which concern them are manifest and revel'd unto them This cannot be true for then the Saints must know when they shall reassume their Bodies which certainly concerns them and so by consequence They must know the Day of the general Resurrection and of Judgment which we deny They must also know all the Praiers that shall be made to them unto the Worlds end and so by consequence the end of the World So must the Angels from the beginning know the Praiers that shall be made to them the laps'd state of
death And for a farther Confutation we shall find in his Works undoubtedly belonging to him that altho in some places he dubiously allows the Intercession of the Saints in Heaven for us Mortals yet he no where approves their Invocation but rather the contrary a Hom. 3. In Cantieum Sol. The Saints departed this life saith he having a great love for those who are in the World it will be no inconvenience if we say they have a care of our wellfare and do assist us with their Praiers and Intercession with God Again b In cap. 13. Josue Ego sic arbitror c. I am of the Opinion That all the Fathers who are asleep before us are helpful to us by their Praiers And yet afterwards he accounts this Opinion of his Apocryphal c Lib. 2. In Epistolam ad Rom. Non procul à principio as being not manifest by good Autority If such as are without the Body and now with Christ do any thing for us after the manner of Angels who are ministering Spirits d Habeatur inter occultanda mysteria nec chartulx committenda let this as a Mystery be concel'd and not publish'd and committed to Paper Phil. e Ibid. c. 20. Bellarmin takes notice of this Passage out of Origen and answers That he speaks of their daily and constant converse with us which is not so certain as that they know our state and Pray for us whereof Origen asks the Question f Homil. 26. in Numb Quis dubitet c. Who doubts of it That the Saints do help us with their Praiers and confirm and encourage us by the example of their good Works Theoph. By degrees he proceeded from doubting to affirming and yet the Assertion only maintains That the Saints do pray for us in common which we have not denied but himself rejects the Consequence That because the Saints do pray for us therefore we should pray to them g L. 8. Contra Celsum For when Celsus had objected That it could not displease the Supreme Deity if inferior Demons as Friends of God should be worship'd and implor'd to become the Advocates of poor Mortals with him Origen answers That Christians acknowledg no such Demons but know that the Angels are Gods Ministers and the Blessed Saints his Friends And then he proceeds to shew the practice of Christians in Invocation We humbly present our Petitions to the most high God thro his only begotten Son to whom also we make our Supplications as being the propitiation for our Sins and as being our High Priest to offer up our Praiers to God For God only saith he is to be worship'd and God the Word our High Priest to be call'd upon that those Requests which come to him he would please to present unto the Father If we desire as he goes on the favor and assistance of the Angels they assuredly are Friends to such who imitate their Holiness and call upon God with devout hearts and worship him whom they adore and worship And therefore he sheweth the most compendious way is to commit our selves to the great Ruler of the Creation thro Christ who hath taught us so to do and from him to expect that help and protection which by the ministery of Angels and by the Spirits of Just Men is communicated to us And whereas Celsus had objected as your Doctors many of them do unto this day that as in the Courts of Princes we make our Applications first to his Nobles and Favorites to appease his Displeasure and obtain his Favor so in our Address to the most High God we should make our way by the Intercession of his choisest Friends and Servants Origen answers Altho in the Courts of Princes so it be yet to us one only God is to be appeas'd with Piety and Virtue and his Favor to be desired as for the blessed Saints and Angels their favor and assistance follows a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. as the shadow the Body They love and serve those who are in the favor of God This I do assure you saith he when we have propos'd to our selves great things and made our Request known to God by Prayer and Supplication All the Heavenly b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Powers of their own accord without our Invocation do pray with us and for us Nothing could more be said against the Invocation of Saints and Angels and the Heavenly Powers and this I am perswaded was the principal reason why your Learned Cardinal brought not the Testimony of Origen to confirm your Praiers to the Saints departed as others of your unadvised Doctors have done Phil. To proceed We find in the same Century how Cyprian a Blessed Martyr was so far perswaded of the Saints Intercession in Heaven that as he desired in his Epistles to him the Praiers of Cornelius the Pope living So farther That he would please to enter with him into a serious Engagement That whether of them by Divine dignation should first leave the World he should be mindful to persevere with God in servent Praier for his Brethren the Faithful left behind him c Tom. 2. l. de disc Ethabitis Virginum ad finem Again in his Book to the Virgins he exhorts them To hold out couragiously to proceed Spiritually and to obtain Happily and then saith he Remember us when your Virginity shall receive the Crown Theoph. This is an Instance of Praier to the living for their assistance when they should be translated into Heaven but nothing to the Point of the Invocation of Saints departed It was his private Opinion That the Saints in Heaven might retain the remembrance and affection towards their Friends and Relations whom they left behind and commend them particularly in their Praiers but not distinctly know their condition or hear their Praiers if they should call upon them this mutual stipulation before their decease rather implies that they conceiv'd they should not have opportunity after ones decease for the other to call upon him And now good Friend having conferr'd notes together about the Testimony of the three first Centuries of Christianity there appears none for the Invocation of the Saints departed not so much as any foot-steps of this Doctrine before Cyprians a Martinussius Pere Ne vestigium quidem unte Cypriutum say some of your Doctors and we have not found a word in Cyprian that doth confirm it For a close therefore we may answer all your Pretensions with our Blessed Saviors words Matth. 18. 8. but from the beginning it was not so And taking in Tertullians Rule b Id verum quodcunque primum id Adulterum quad posterius That is truth which is first what comes after is adulterate We may conclude your Doctrine to be innovate and a fruit of Spiritual Fornication Phil. You must not so soon condemn so many of the Primitive Fathers who have deliver'd this Doctrine and therefore I pray
give your patience to hear their ample Testimony Bellarmin gives this notable Instance out of c Lib. 3 praepar Evang c. 7 Votaque ipsiç facimus c. Eusebius in the fourth Century Honoring the Champions of the true Religion as Friends of God we come to their Tombs and make Praiers to them as to Holy Men by whose Intercession we may be much advantag'd Theoph. A notable Instance indeed to manifest the corruption of Translators and such as follow them for the advantage of the Cause Bellarmin might have consulted the Greek Copy of the Council of Calcedon and then he would not have bin deceiv'd by the Parenchesis in the Latin Translation forg'd for the advantage of the Cause as you have heard before And so now the Greek Copy of Eusebius would have spar'd this proof of Cardinal Bellarmin for Eusebius in that Book having shew'd out of Plato That Men eminent for Virtue should be honored after death he declares the practice of Christians to be agreeable To honor the Champions of Piety and Religion as Friends of God after their decease d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Whence saith he it is our use to frequent their Monuments and make our Praiers there We repair to their Tombs and there make our Praiers saith Eusebius And so the Christians did frequent Memorias Martyrum and call upon God in those places But the Translator with Bellarmin reads it We repair to their Tombs and pray to them as to Holy Men. Again Eusebius saith e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We honor these Blessed Souls and conceive we rationally do so But the cousening Translator leaves this passage quite out and puts in a Clause of his own By whose Intercession we declare our selves to be much assisted with God It seems George Trapezuntius a wretched Translator suited better Bellarmins turn then the Original Text of Eusebius and therefore he chose to consult one rather then the other We see what reason we have to examine Bellarmins Quotations many times they pretend much but prove nothing but Imposture Phil. Methinks you might satisfie your self with your pretended Confutations and leave out your uncharitable Censures I proceed to the Cardinals next Quotation out of the great a Sermene de Annuntiatione ad finem Athanasius who with the People of God puts up these Supplications to the Mother of God Incline thine ear unto our Praiers and forget not thy People O blessed Virgin we cry unto thee Be mindful of us O our Lady and Mistress the Queen of Heaven and Mother of God Intercede for us Theoph. I must confess this is an ample Testimony But your Cardinal knew very well this Oration was a forgery falsly ascrib'd to that Holy Father It discovers it self to have bin written after the opposite Heresies of Nestorius and Eutyches for it directly confutes them And Cardinal Baronius b Anno Christi 48. N. 19 20. acknowledgeth what I say and Numb 23. concludes like an Oracle giving a just reproof to Bellarmin and the other Doctors who make use of Lies to uphold supposed Truths c Existimamus Cathel veritatem labre factari potius c. We believe Catholic Truths rather to be weakned by such false Allegations then supported And withal holy d Oratione 2. centra Arrianos 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Athanasius urgeth this Argument against the Arrians to prove Christs Divinity because we call upon him and tells us That the Saints do not call upon any Created Being to be their help and succor And so I hope you apprehend the severity of my Censures to be due being put to such an intollerable Drudgery to search among the Rubbish of your falsified Records and Quotations it is the only satisfaction I have to discover your Impostures and expose them to censure and undeceive the World Phil. Well now you must take your farewel These Autorities that follow are without Exception S t Basil e Oratione in 40 Martyres hath this Passage He that is streightned with any necessity let him fly to them He that hath occasion to rejoice let him call upon them the one that he may be delivered the other that be may continue in prosperity Theoph. I wish you would make good your words and bring Quotations fair and without Exception For this of Basil is ill Translated meerly for your advantage f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The oppressed flies to these 40 Martyrs 'T is in the Indicative and not in the Imparative Mood shewing the Peoples practice not his precept But that which follows shews your Doctors cheat a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He that rejoiceth comes to these saith Basil and you say Let him pray to these Now you have heard it was usual for Men in every condition to come to the Monuments of the Martyrs and there call upon God for help and there offer up their Sacrifices of Praise to him not to the Martyrs Phil. What shift have you for b In Psalmum 35. Basils next Testimony Of the Spiritual Powers some are call'd Eyes because they watch over us some are call'd Ears because they c hear and receive our Praiers Theoph. What Praiers those which are made to them that doth not appear rather those Praiers which are made to God which some of the Antient from some passages out of the Revelation of S t John did conceive the Angels did present to God How doth this prove the Invocation of Saints Phil. The next Testimony Bellarmin urgeth is o. c Quia nostras excip preces Gregory Nazianzen The d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Oratione in Cyprianum Eminent Divine as he is generally called He relates how Saint Cyprian before his Conversion was a Magician and falling desperatly in Love with a Christian Virgin and not being able to obtain her Affection he made use of Art-Magic and Enchantments to compass his design But saith he e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The Virgin made her Supplication to the Blessed Virgin to help a Virgin in distress and so was delivered from the Enchanting Powers Theoph. Nazianzen took this Fable out of a Book call'd Cyprians Repentance and Conversion where 't is related and that Book is declared spurious by Pope f Dist. 15. cap. Sancta Rom. Ecclesia Gelasius g In Catal. Script Ecclesiast 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 S t Jerome gives another account of Cyprians Conversion shewing how he was Rhetoric Professor in Carthage and Converted by the acquaintance and perswasion of Cecilius from whom he took the Sir-name Coecilianus Cyprianus And Pamelius and many others who have written Cyprians Life acquit him of this Infamous passage and Nazianzen was strangely credulous to assert it Phil. You are alwaies severe against such as do not please you But Bellarmin shews farther how that Holy Farther calls upon Cyprian in the end of this Oration upon Basil in the close of his Panegyrie and upon Athanasius
our Arguments against your Doctrine We have already shew'd that your Doctors can make no proof or give any assurance that the Saints in Heaven do hear our Praiers and therefore that we should call upon them in vain But yet further as to our thoughts and mental Praiers the Saints cannot discerne them and therefore are not meet Objects of our Invocation Phil. Yes in the glass of the Trinity even mens thoughts may be represented to them Theoph. Never tell me what may be but do you believe they do discerne our though's you know in Scripture to search the hearts and know the thoughts of men is made an incommunicable property of the divine Nature Thou even thou only knowest the hearts of men saith Solomon 1 Kings 8. 39. Phil. To this Bellarmin answers that God only naturally and by hiw own vertue know's mens thoughts but the Saints by Revelation and the beatific Vision Theoph. These are meer Dictates without proof Devices to shift of unanswerable Arguments How can your great Doctor prove that God reveles the thoughts of Men and Women and Children and their mental Praiers to the Saints in Heaven or that they behold them in the Beatifical Vision whereas he is foret to acknowledg that other things are conceled from them for instance neither Angels nor Saints know the day of Judgment Phil. This wise discourse signifies but little For if the Saints in glory cannot difcern nor hear mental Praier let us put up vocal Supplications unto them Theoph. If you cry aloud and they cannot hear you what then however there is more in this consideration then so Would you have the blessed Virgin as soon interceed for Hypocrites as for sincere Christians shall Peter admit you all promiscuously into Heaven such Mediators as you make the Saints ought to be qualified for their high office with a discerning faculty of the sincerity of men's hearts who call upon them and withal when men are speechless upon their death-beds and most need the help of their Fraiers by your last supposition they must go without them Phil. Why is this Argument of not discerning the thoughts of mens hearts of force against the Saints Intercession in Heaven more then against the Intercession and praiers of Saints upon Earth for one another Theoph. Your selves make the wide difference between the Intercession of the Saints in heaven and of the faithful here upon Earth And that shall be the ground of our next Argument against your Invocation of Saints and their Intercession because you make their Mediation much to derogate from the Meditation and Intercession of Christ Phil. That indeed is a material Objection but how do ye prove it a Ibid. Cap. 20. Bellarmin saith expresly We do not call upon the Saints to perform the Offioe of Christ but only that they would assist us with their Praiers the more easily for us to obtain our requests from God thro Christ He acknowledges Christ to be the one only Mediator between God and man by way of Redemption and satisfying the debt and by Nature as being God and man and because he only stands in need of no other Mediator whatsoever others obtain of God either for themselves or others they obtain it thro Christ. Now altho the Saints and Angels do not satisfie for our sins and pay the debt yet they may beseech God for Christs fake to forgive them Theop. If this were all we would not much contend with them about the Saints Intercession as prejudiciall to the Mediation and Intercession of Christ But the Doctrine of your Schools goes further That the Saints intercede for us not only by their Praiers but also by their merits b Sent. l. 4. dist 45. ad finem so Peter Lombard the Mr. of the Sentences Interprets the Act of Intercession We pray to the Saints to Intercede for us i. e. That their merits may become our assistance and Immediately before he saith c Intercedunt merito affectu The Saints interceed with God for us by their Merits whilst their Merits plead for us and by their Love desiring to have our requests granted Bonaventure explains him Altho first he the Saints in glory Non sunt in statu merendi are not in a state of Meriting and are sufficiently recompenc'd for their Merits in this life d In 4. Sent. dist 45. yet because they did supererogate much They have obtain'd such honor by there Merits not only to deserve beatitude and glory for themselves but also to prove suffragans for others so that he who was before unworthy by Praying to the Saints thro their Patronage becomes worthy Now we say that thro the Merits of Christ we who are otherwise altogether unworthy have access with boldness unto the Father and therefore we implore his Patronage and Advocation and Intercession and take him as the only Mediator between God and man and for all this we have the full and express Authority of Gods word Thro Him we have access by one Spirit unto the Father In whom we have boldness and access with confidence thro faith in Him Ephe 2. 18. and 3. 12. Again If any Man Sin we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous e Quia multa supererog suis meritis adepti sunt locum c. and he is the Propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world 1 John 1. 2. Again There is one God and one Mediator between God and Man the Man Christ Jesus who gave himselfe a Ransom for us 1 Tim. 2. v. 5. 6. Phil. I have shew'd above how Bellarmin acknowledgeth Christ to be the one only Mediator by way of Redemtion and solution of the debt but the Saints may be Mediators by way of Intercession Theoph. If you meant only the Intercession of Praiers it were tolerable but your Doctors bring in the intercession of their Merits and that implies satisfaction of the debt at least in some part their Superogation supplying our defect Phil. This refers unto another Point to be discust hereafter touching the Saints Merits and Superogation and therefore we will not now determine it Theoph. Mean while upon your own grosse suppositions you make the Saints so to Interpose with God for us as to Intrench upon the Intercession of Christ who is therefore represented to be our Advocate because He is a propitiation for Sin 1 John 2. 1 2. As our Mediator because He gave himself a Ransom for all 1 Tim. 2. 6. Phil. You may take our Blessed Saviour as the principal in Intercession and satisfaction and the Blessed Saints may come in as Inferiour Advocates and Patrons Theoph. This is the Rock against which your Schole-men generally Ship-wrack Concience First They take all things taught or practis'd in the Church of Rome as infallibly true and then when any thing is objected out of Gods word or the Testimony of the Ancients against them they salve themselves by a
Virgins Rosary after ten Ave Maries or Angelical Salurations b Ave Maria grarid plenae c. Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee Blessed art thou among Women and Blessed is Jesus the Fruit of thy Womb. Holy Mary Mother of God Pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our death Amen I say after ten Ave Maries follows one Pater noster or the Lords Praier and fifty Ave Maries and five Pater nosters make a Rosary so called because it is interwoven with Praiers and Salutations Pater noster's and Ave Maries as a Garland with Flowers Now out of great Devotion some will treble the Rosary and so make 150 Salutations which they call'd the Ladies Psalter until Bonaventure was so bold out of Davids Psalter to compose another and many Fraternities and Companies were erected in several Chaunteries to celebrate and rehearse those treble Rosaries saying 150 Ave Maries and 15 Pater Noster's in one Service and so they became highly guilty of the Heathenish Battology which our Blessed Savior forbad Matth. 6. And to make this great Devotion general and public Pope Gregory the 13 th appoints a Solemn c Festum Rosari Beatae Virg. Sub 2. majori officio ab omnibus c. Feast of the Rosary of the blessed Virgin to be celebrated by all in general and by every single person with the double greater Office and Solemnity You see the grand Superstition of this Office and the proportion ten to one between their rehearsing the Lords Praier and the Angels Salutation or the Ave Mary So are likewise your Letanies now stufft with the Names of all the Saints you can imagin to be in Heaven and with the Orders of Angels and the Name of God and of Christ hath scarce any room among them whereas we read the antient Letanies were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lord have mercy upon us Christ have mercy upon us Lord have mercy upon us The People of God in great Extremities of Earthquakes and Tempests and Plagues and calling earnestly upon God in these Forms until in the fifth Century was added the Trisagion Holy is the Lord holy is the strong holy is the d Sanctus Deus Sanctus Fortis Sanctus Immortalis Immortal e Bin. Tom. 3. Episi 3. Felitis Papae ad Petrum Fullonem p. 801. which Form whil'st the Church of God in Constantinople upon a great Earthquake running forth into the field called upon God for mercy was taught them from Heaven by a yong Child who was carried up out of their sight the Patriarch Proclus of Constantinople and all the People being Eye-witnesses and after an hour was let down into the midst of them and declared That he had heard the Angels sing that Hymn and that he was commanded to bring it down to them Phil. If all be Gospel that you say it sufficeth there needs no more Additions Theoph. Those things are well known and may be easily confirm'd by Testimonies But I am willing to give you respite and not multiply Arguments and Testimonies seeing you have acknowledged what hath bin said to be sufficient as I suppose to prove what I first design'd The Error of your Doctrine of the Invocation of Saints and the great Superstition and Idolatry in the practice And now good Sir give me your hand in assurance that you will pardon my Incivility to hold you so long in an unacceptable Discourse abroad mean while forgetting that respect and entertainment which is due to a worthy Friend who hath most courteously given me a Visit Will you please therefore to walk in and recreate yourself with other Divertisements and better Company and with such slender Provisions as we can make at present I hope you will be so kind to stay longer with us and give the Opportunity to make amends FINIS
unto the Image it self putting us in mind of our Savior you have high reason to yield all civil honor and obeisance to your Prinoe but will you bow the Knee or put of your Hat unto his Image in your Coin or to his Picture in your Closet Phil. Let me ask you also one Question If any should stab the Image of the King or of your Ancestors and shew great indignation against them would you not be higtly offended Theoph. If the Circumstances declare that he did it out of despight and malice to the person represented by the Picture there is reason to take it as an high affront Phil. By insensible degrees I shall bring you to acknowledge as much as we desire If you should see any Man give honor and respect unto the Princes Picture for his sake would you not approve it Theoph. Yes giving such regard as a pious Prince expects from us not to put a studied affront upon it not to set it up in a contemtible place we likewise shew a dutiful affection in highly valuing the Picture that resembles the King Phil. Why should you except against honor and respect given to an Image of your Savior or of his blessed Mother and the Saints Theoph. We do not set aside the Religious Worship of an Image which may lawfully be made and we will not except against any respect you will give to it for his sake whom it represents you must prove it lawful to worship Images Phil. To a Prince civil Worship and Honor is due and so much you give likewise to his Picture by the same rule seeing unto Christ as Man in union with the Divine Nature is due Religious Worship and Adoration you must give Religious Worship to his Image Theoph. We never said the same honor is due to the Picture of a Prince as to his Person Do you all stand bare in the Parlor because your Princes Picture hangs there or the Pictures of any of his Predecessors And secondly from a civil Worship given unto a Creature to a Religious Worship given unto a Creature there is no consequence to be drawn and the reason is this God hath forbid one and not the other Now the Pictures of Christ and of his Cross and of the Saints are Creatures even the work of Mens hands and therefore to them no Religious Worship to be given Phil. There is a receiv'd Maxim in the Church first taken from Basil the Great a Vid. Damascen Orthod Fid. lib. 4. c. 17. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The honor done to the Image passeth unto him whom it represents and therefore honoring their Images you honor Christ and his Saints Theoph. 'T is truth what respect is given to a Picture is only with regard unto the thing or person represented by it and therefore it is call'd relative Honor We prize the Picture of a Friend and much more of our Blessed Savior and his Saints if they be drawn to the Life but however to the Picture itself no adoration can in reason be given and honor because it is far inferior to the meanest Man who is the living Image of God and a Picture suppose of Christ but an inanimate Image b Honor est agnitio praecellâ—ntis Now Honor is given to things more excellent Will you say the Picture of a King excels in dignity the person of a Subject or that a liveless Picture of our Blessed Savior is more honorable then a living Disciple of our Blessed Savior Phil. Not in itself but as it is the Image of Christ Theoph. I speak of it as his Image and yet I do suppose you dare not maintain That the Picture of Christ in the consideration as his Picture is more to be esteemed then a Disciple of Christ for suppose one of them were to be destroi'd Would you save the Picture and leave the Man to perish Again for worshipping the Images of Saints it may be of S t Peter Is more honor to be given to his Image now then was to his person in the days of his Flesh When Cornelius fell at his Feet and worship'd him he receiv'd it not but said Stand up I my self also am a Man Acts 10 26 instructing him that no such worship was due to a Man Phil. He would not receive such adoration as was due to God Theoph. Who told you good Cornelius a devout Man intended such worship as was due to God Dare you say Cornelius in that act committed I dolatry giving the worship due only to God unto his Servant Peter he only design'd to give to him such high expressions of Honor and Worship as to a Saint and Servant of God upon Earth and yet Peter would not accept of it and intimates because he was a Man he ought not So we read S t John fell down to Worship before the Feet of the Angel and the Angel said See thou do it not for I am thy fellow-servant and of thy Brethren the Prophets and of them which keep the sayings of this Book worship God Now it is to be conceiv'd John design'd not to commit Idolarry and give Divine Worship to the Angel but only some inferior Religious Worship as your Doctors use to speak and yet the Angel would not receive it being jealous of his Creators Honor and directs the Apostle to worship God Now if we must not worship Saints in their own Persons much less in their Images If Angels will not accept worship from us neither will the Saints Triumphant both instruct us to worship God and not them altho we should intend to give them only inferior worship Phil. The second Council of Nice being the seventh Oecumenical Council hath well stated this Point and establish'd the Worship proper to God call'd Latria to be incommunicable to a Creature But a second sort of inferior Worship and Adoration they determin must be given to the Images of Christ and the Saints Theoph. I wish they had first satisfied you or me why they should determine inferior Worship and Adoration to be given to the Saints in Heaven and to their Images on Earth seeing the Angel expresly forbids it and directs us only to worship God But seeing you have appeal'd to that Council of Nice thither we will go as being indeed the first Foundation of Image worship and if you please I will give you a preliminary account and history of that Council Phil. I pray do so for it will suit with our present Discourse and shew the rashness of those Enemies of Christ and his Saints who brake down their Images and cast them out of Churches as Heathen Idols unto the Dung-hill whil'st the holy Popes of Rome successively wrote Epistles and sent Legats and gave warning to the Emperors whose Zeal without knowledge gave countenance and autority to such Sacrilegious Outrages Theoph. About the year of Christ 720. Leo Isaurus the 69 th Emperor of Rome from Augustus observing the growth of Superstition and Idolatry
Stories and Fables whereof the Reader may give himself an account in reading the History of that Council given by Binius in his 5 th Tome and there they pretend to shew how the former Council of Constantinople did impose upon many of the Bishops then present by corrupting Books and Testimonies and forcing their Votes to concur with them and this by the confession forsooth of those who had recanted and now sate in this Council to condemn and pronounce the other Accursed In the sixth Session they come close to the Point and examine the definition of that Conventicle as they are pleased to call it against Images but not in the usual way of Councils by debating particulars among them but referring all to a malapert Deacon one Epiphanius The Representative of the Arch-Bishop of Sardinia and he answers every Paragraph with Exclamation and Railing as the impartial Reader may observe To give one Instance the Council of Constantinople instead of the Picture of Christ sends us to the Holy Sacrament of the Lords Supper in commemoration of Christ and his Passion and calls the Eucharist Christ Image wherein he was best represented to his Church Here the Deacon wonderfully insults and triumphs over them and calls this fancy of theirs a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 An extreme apoplectical Madness He declares unto all the World That never any of the Apostles or Fathers of the Church before them call'd the Holy Sacrament an Image Now when we shall consider that the use of Images and Pictures is chiefly for representation and that in the Sacrament Christs death is represented and himself commemorated this Assertion of the former Council might have well pass'd without such an outragious Censure and yet withal to see how confident men will soon be over-taken in their presumtions we read in Baronius that great Darling of the Church of Rome an account given of one Stephanus a Confessor and Martyr for Images who expostulating with Leo Isaurus for his Image-breaking b Bar. Tom. 9. Anno 765. num 9. Audi corp sang Christi Antitypa proscrib ab Ecclesiâ ut quae Imag. veram fig. tenent quae adoramus c. bids him likewise if he thought good proscribe the Antitypes of Christs Body and Blood which contain'd the true Image and Figure of Christ and were also worshipped That which was memorable in Stephanus to call the Eucharist The Image of Christ in the Council of Constantinople was abominable so partial are Men who swerve from Truth they have Mens Persons and Arguments in admiration or contemt meerly for the advantage of their Cause however the insolent Deacon was no tell-troth in saying The Council had no president for their Assertion when Stephanus one of his Martyrs for Images had before asserted the same Now the Council of Constantinople which this Deacon under the Patronage of the Council of Nice fain would baffle into a Conventicle as far as we can discern by their Definition which their Adversaries have set forth only to be confuted we given them thanks for it this Council I say designs in the Definition to lead Men from sensible things unto Spiritual shewing that in this World we must walk by Faith not by sight and if we have known Christ after the Flesh from henceforth to know him so no more That Christians thoughts should not be drawn outward and distracted with visible representations from Spiritual intendments They quote a saying of Gregory Nazianzen c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. It is an injury to have our Faith in colours not in the Heart And he adds That Picture which is engraven in the depth of the Heart is amiable to me Pictures made in colours will wash away They quote Chrysostom saying d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We enjoy the presence of the Saints in glory by their Writings having the Images not of their Bodies but of their Souls for those things which were done by them are the representations of their noble mind They quote a saying of Amphilochius Bishop of Ieonium e We take no care to represent in Tables the fleshly visage of the Saints by colours but to imitate their virtuous conversation We 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. have no need of Pictures They shew how Eusebius Pamphilus when Consiantia Augusta desired him to send an Image of Christ to her disswaded her from it What Image saith he would you have of his God-bead that 's impossible no man hath seen God at any time of his Man-hood We believe the humane Nature of Christ to be glorified and mortality swallowed up in life and how shall we express his Glorious Body with liveless colours and shadows The Disciples being in the Mount could not behold his transfigur'd Body whilst he was in the Flesh much less can we now represent or behâ—ld him after his Ascension into the highest Heavens Other Testimonies they bring but the Deacon excepts against them as spurious but these he allows as legitimate and sets himself to answer them but with very little satisfaction to the Reader Now I pray judg whether these are not more significant Testimonies against Images then the Council of Nice or any others yet have produc'd for them Now the determination of the Council of Constantinople after their confession of Faith upon the whole matter is this a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We unanimously determin That every Image of whatsoever matter or colour made by the wicked Art of Painters or Carvers be cast out of Christian Churches as alien and abominable And in the next words they condemn the Art of Carving or Painting as an ungodly and wicked Profession and forbid every one to keep a Picture in his House The Definition of the Council of Nice follows in the seventh Action After profession of the Faith of the six general Councils before them and Anathema's denounc'd against Heresies and Heretics they declare to hold uncorrupt all Traditions of the Church written and unwritten b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. whereof they say One Tradition is the making of Images suited to the History of the Gospel for confirmation of the Faith of Christs taking flesh and therefore say they With all diligence and exactness we define That Images of the Life-giving Cross and of Christ and of the Virgin Mary and of the blessed Angels and all the Saints shall be set up in Churches and Houses and High-ways and wrought in Copes and Vestments because the oftner these Images are seen the more they bring into remembrance and imitation such as are represented by them c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We also Decree To give Honor Salvation and Adoration to these Images not that true worship of Latria which belongs only to the Divine Nature but as to the Image of the Cross and to the Holy Gospels and that the Oblations of Incense and Tapers should be made for their honor And in the
Images And I do not find in the second Council of Nice the term of Dulia opposite to Latria but Salutation and Adoration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 However at present we dispute not the terms but desire to know the importance of the known distinction That God only is worship'd with the worship call'd Latria and the Saints with the worship call'd Dulia In the first place therefore What is Latria a Lib. 9. Instit Moralium c. 5. Cultus soli Deo c. Azorius a Jesuit and Casuist tells us It is Service or Worship due to God alone whereby we subject our selves to him as to the supreme Lord putting our trust and confidence in him In the second place What is Dulia b Veneratio quae civibus Coeli tribuitur That Veneration saith he which is given unto the Citizens of Heaven This sheweth to whom it is given but why doth he not tell us what that Worship is and wherein it differeth from Latria And withal seeing Dulia signifieth servitude in the judgment of c Tom. 1. l. de vera Relig. c. 55. Honoramus eos charitate non servitate Augustin we ought not to give it to the Saints in Heaven We honor them saith he with love and not with servitude No distinct peculiar Service or Worship is due to the Saints in Glory for herein lies the difference between the Fathers and the School-men These appropriate a Service and Worship to the Saints in Heaven and call it Dulia to the Blessed Virgin and call it Hyperdulia But Augustin makes no difference between the Service and Worship due to the Saints in Heaven and the Saints on Earth d Lib. 20. Contra Faust. Manich. c. 21. Colimus Martyres eo cultu delect c. We honor Martyrs with that worship of love and friendship wherewith we honor holy Men of God in this life and we worship God alone with Latria When the Manichees objected That Christians made Idols of their Martyrs honoring their Tombs and erecting Altars before them e Quos etiam votis similibus colitis and making Vows unto them f Altaria erigimus Deo Martyrum quod offertur Deo offertur c. Augustin answers We erect the Altars to the God of those Martyrs and the Oblations are given to God who crowned the Martyrs A Christian with Religious Solemnity celebrates the memories of Martyrs to excite Imitation and that he may share in their merits and be assisted by their Praiers Phil. This passage of S t Augustin shews a Religious Solemnity to be kept in honor of the Saints departed and that the living may share in their Merits and be assisted by their Praiers these are Truths which you will not freely acknowledg Theoph. We do acknowledg them for by a Religious Solemnity we understand the Festivals which the Holy Church observes in commemoration of the Saints and Martyrs By the society of their Merits we understand that by imitation of the Saints we have a Fellowship in their Labors and in their Crowns And for the last Clause the assistance of their Prayers we doubt not but that the Saints in Heaven do pray for the Church of God and his Servants here on Earth but as for any knowledge of particulars when we come to that Point I can shew how S t Augustin doubts a Lib. de cura pro Mort. c. 15. Fatendum nescire quidem mortuos quid hic agatur Whether the Blessed Saints and Martyrs do hear the Prayers which are offered up at their Shrines nay he confesseth that they do not know what is done here below and that when by the power of God and Ministry of Angels Miracles were done at their Shrines themselves might not know it no not when they did appear to some upon Earth as Saul saw in a Vision one Ananias coming to him and putting his hands upon him that he might receive his sight but Ananias himself knew nothing of that appearance to Saul until the Lord declared it to him Acts 9 12 God might please to act great things at the Monuments of Martyrs b Cap. 17. Illis in summa quiete positis whil'st themselves were in perfect rest as he speaks But this by the way it belongs to another Controversie in due time to be assum'd However you have heard Augustin after all that he had said concluding We honor Martyrs with that worship of Love and Friendship wherewith we honor Holy Men of God in this Life and if you will require no more Veneration to be given to them we will grant it But then you must remember That Paul when living did forbid Cornelius to worship him and so did the Angel prohibit the Apostle John and so would all the glorious Saints in Heaven prohibit your Adoration before their Images if they could communicate in speech or any other way with you Religious Worship we deny to the Saints and their Images civil honor and respect we give Phil. Because the Saints and Angels of God are like him in their natural Powers and Qualities moral and civil honor is due to them for honor is the acknowledgment of some Excellency But then in regard unto their supernatural Gifts and Spiritual and Religious Qualities we must allow them Religious and Spiritual Honor and Veneration Theoph. c De vera Relig. c. 55. Vni Deo religamus animas nostras unde Religio dicta creditur S t Augustin observes how the very name of Religion strictly binds us to God and therefore all Religious Acts and Services are due only to him Had not Peter and Paul and the other Saints in bliss while they were living in the Flesh supernatural Gifts and Excellencies and would you have worship'd them with Religious Worship Cornelius attemted it and was forbidden Phil. There is a great disproportion between the Saints in Glory and the Saints militant here on Earth Theoph. In regard of their Happiness and Fruition they are excellent beyond compare but this is their reward the Honor we give them is in commemoration of their Works and Excellencies in this Life for our example and imitation And withal Cornelius worshipping Peter in the Flesh was sure Peter was sensible of that Honor then given and you know the Apostle refus'd it but if you worship him now being in Heaven you may rationally doubt as S t Augustin did of the Saints in geneneral whether he is sensible of that Honor more then his Image before which you fall down and worship Phil. However God accepts the Honor done to his Saints as to himself Theoph. Yes when done according to his rule But where hath God given any command or direction to worship them you bring no proofs of your Practice out of Holy Scripture we urge many Texts against it Your Arguments run altogether upon Analogy and Proportion that much more honor is due to the Saints now in Heaven then when they liv'd in the Flesh because they are much more excellent
Persecutors much more for mercy and favor unto their friends and brethren for they are more inflam'd with charity then with an eager thirst after revenge Theoph. I perceive most of the Arguments are probable diductions from Analogie and proportion but we expect divine Autority to establish such a principle part of Worship which you make the Invocation of Saints Phil. We are not yet arriv'd at that point but preparing the way unto it shewing the Saints in Heaven do understand our affairs and pray for us and with your patience I will give other Texts to prove it Theoph. More pertinent I beseech you Phil. That passage of S t Peter is full to the point 2 d of Pet. 1. 15. I will endeavor after my decease that ye may be able to have these things alwaies in remembrance Where the Apostle shews that after his departure he will endeavor for them Theoph. This feat Argument is Bellarmines and not S t Peters he hath chang'd the order of the words and so by consequence their meaning The Original Text manifests how the words should be read not as you transport them I will endeavor after my decease that you may be able to keep in remembrance c. But Thus a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. I will endeavor that every one of you may be able after my decease to have those things alwaies in remembrance And this endeavor he did use in the daies of his flesh in preaching the Gospel until his death and leaving these Epistles as remembrancers Bellarmine indeed hath the confidence to add to the Text his Paraphrase that it might serve his turn b Dabo operam habere vos commendatos sive in Animo post obitum I will endeavor to have you recommended or in mind after my death And yet it is observeable how he concludes this Text after all his patching c Quam vis non sit evidens est tamen probabile argumentum to be no evident but a probable Argument Whereas as he hath shapt it it is cleer and demonstrative to his purpose but his conscience checkt him for his additions and transmutations and so he would not lay any great stress upon it Phil. You will never leave your sinister Construction of his fair dealing but I hope his next Argument has evidence enough That if Dives in Hell was solicitous for his Brethren upon earth and pray'd Abraham to send Lazarus to warn them least they should come into the same place of Condemnation much more are the Saints in Heaven sollicitous for their Brethren the Church Militant and pray for their protection and assistance Theoph. Your Arguments a majori will not hold without some Autority to support them This of the rich glutton is but a feeble Crutch d Justin Eucherius Cyril Chrysost many Intepreters take the whole passage to be a parable not an History and e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Theophylact upon the place reckons the other that it is an History a foolish conceit Now you know the maxim f Parabolae non sunt argumentativae parables are no Argumentative Topick neither are they Narratives of things done but similitudinary representations to fix some Doctrines more sensibly and effectually in mens minds Again if it were an Historical relation of matter of fact it would not prove the point That Dives beindead and in Torment knew the affairs of this world Only he was sensible that he had given an example of voluptuousness and uncharitableness unto his brethren and that their sins would contribute unto his Torment and therefore he was solicitous to have them reclaim'd When he shall urge his example for the Invocation of Saints I will answer That you bring an ill president to confirm a Doctrine of the Church and withal when Abraham or any of the Saints in Heaven shall undoubtedly appear and commune with you you may desire their assistance Phil. Bellarmine hath one material proof that the Saints in Heaven do pray for the faithful upon earth because the Church militant and triumphant do make one mystical body whereof Christ is the head And so there g Ibid. Communio illa exigit necessario ut membra pro invicem sint sollicita mutuo se juvent must be a Communion between the members making them solicitous mutually to help one another Theoph. He might have spar'd to urge the necessary mutual assistance for we do not pray for the Saints in Heaven neither are we solicitous for them who are immutably blessed and of their affection towards us their fellow members militant upon earth we do not doubt neither of their praiers for the Church in general That she may be victorious over all her Enemies as also for the filling up the number of the Elect and their Consummation in bliss but this will not infer their distinct knowledg of things here below or make for your Doctrine of Invocation For you know the Saints militant over all the world are fellow members and mutually solicitous for one another and yet one National Church doth not invocate another in her public offices Phil. I pray give me leave to make the Inference when I have sufficiently fortified the premises you run away with the argument before it is perfect and so conclude it is invalid For you shall find that our Doctors do not only prove how the Saints in Heaven pray in general for the Church militant and for the Saints on earth but that they pray particularly for them for that is Betlarmines next position a Ibid. Sancti qui regnant in coele crant pro nobis etiam in particulari The Saints in Heaven pray for us in particular Theoph. Be pleas'd to let us here his Arguments Phil. He proves the Angels have a special charge over us in particular and pray for us and therefore much more the Saints in Heaven do so Theoph. How doth he prove his much more I doubt it will prove at length much less and the whole Argument a non sequitur Phil. His reasons seem demonstrative our Saviour saith the Saints in Heavin are as the Angels Luk. 20. vers 36. They alwaies stand in the presence of God and most affectionately love us and therefore want neither understanding or will to be assistant unto their brethren upon earth And in one regard they may surpass the Angels in a promtitude to succor us in that they have a nearer relation to us as their flesh and blood and have had experience of our dangers and sorrows and so are the rather qualified to compassionate our infirmities Theoph. Our blessed Savior shews how the Saints in Glory are like unto the Angels and equal to them in respect of their Immortality for they can dy no more and in that they neither marry nor are given in Marriage as you may observe the place but there is no demonstration the comparison should hold in all things and doubtless before the Resurrection
and the joyful union between the Spirits of just Men and their glorified bodies they are in some state of imperfection their appetite of Union being not fulfill'd and therefore you may observe our Savior spake of the Saints in the Resurrection expressly as to their likeness and Equality with the Angels and concludes not any thing before They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the Resurrection from the Dead neither Marry nor are given in Marriage Neitheir can they dy any more for they are equall unto the Angels Luk. 20. vers 35. 36. That they want neither knowledg nor affection to assist us and take a charge of us altho we should grant to avoid disputes yet we do not read they have such a Commission from God to attend us as have the Angels It is written Ps 34. 7. The Angel of the Lord tarries round about them that fear him and delivereth them Again Ps 39. 11 He has given his Angels charge over thee It is written Matt. 18. 10. In Heaven their Angels do alwaies behold the face of my Father which is in Heaven Again Heb. 1. 14. Are they not all Ministring Spirits sent forth to Minister for them who shall be heirs of Salvation Produce such Autorities for the glorious Saints ministery and assistance and we will yield your consequence that because the Angels of Heaven have charge over the people of God upon earth the Saints have likewise It is written 1 Thes 4. 16. That at the voice of the Archangel and the sound of the trump the dead shall rise That the Son of Man shall send his Angels at the last day to gather the elect and sever the wicked from the just the chaff from the corne Matt. 13. Dare you ascribe this office likewise unto the Saints in glory And therefore your Argument from the Angels to the Saints is groundless a meer invention of man without any warrant from Gods word Wherein it appears that the Angels are Gods messengers and Ministers between Heaven and earth but not so the Saints departed Now as God Almighty imploies the Angels so he imparts unto them the knowledg and understanding of affaires below so far as concerns their business and as they attend the Saints upon earth so they know much of their condition And so they rejoice at the conversion of a sinner But we read not a syllable of the Saints in Heaven of their knowledg or their Joy and therefore you can draw no good consequence from one to the other Phil. You conclude well upon your own suppositions but take our Doctors along with you and you will find That God hath committed the charge of the Church militant and the Saints upon earth as well to the Saints as to the Angels of Heaven c Bell. Ibid. A spiritibus beatorum regi gubernard fideles c. and that the faithful are govern'd and conducted by the Spirits of the Blessed Theoph. Shew their substantial proofs and not their confident assertions Phil. You read how the Son of God makes a faithful promise Revel 2. vers 26. 27. He that overcometh and keepeth my words unto the end to him will I give power over the Nations and he shall rule them with a rod of Iron as the vessel of a potter shall they be broken in peices Again Rev. 3. 12. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of God to uphold his Church and I will grant to him to sit with me on my throne to rule and govern with Christ his Church and to preside over the world now Bellarmine proceeds to shew how these promises are made to the Saints after this life because they are made to him that overcometh all the Temptations of life and keepeth Christs word until death And that this government belongs to them before the general Resurrection appears from that expression He shall cule them with a rod of Iron and shall brake them as a potters vessel These words imply a pastoral regiment the original is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he shall feed them as a Shepherd his sheep and it is call'd an Iron rod because inflexible from the rule of justice and therewith the refractory shall be broken in pieces the same expressions are given of Christ Rev. 12. 5. She brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of Iron Theoph. Methinks your Doctors in there deep Theologie fetch their proofs most from the Revelations of S t John Your Doctrine of the Saints in Heaven governing the World and the faithful upon earth knowing our state and hearing our praiers is a great mysterie I had almost said of Iniquity and you cheifly confirm it from some mysterious passages in the Revelation an Argument you want plain and positive proofs and therefore fly unto obscure and figurative and mystical expressions All these promises you have mention'd made to the Saints persevering unto the end serve to shew their state of transcendent blessedness and glory above their fellows who in this life were inferior to them in their sufferings and in their graces Like those in the parable who according to the improvement of their Talents had autority given them over many Cities Luk. 19. Or like the blessed servant whom the Lord at his coming shall find so doing Verily I say unto you That he shall make him ruler over all his goods Mat. 24. 47. He shall place him in great honor saith Euthimius upon the place and he gives a caution that we should not enquire too far and with too much curiosity into these things nor collect any thing from such parabolical expressions but what they necessarily imply After the like manner Theophylact upon the place He a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. shall share in the more Honourable recompences to wit in the Kingdom of Heaven for the Saints are Heirs of all that appertain to God And so run the general Interpretations upon the ten Cities c. Among the Ancients we find no mention of this conceit That Christ communicates the charge of his Church and people and the government of the world before the day of judgment unto the Saints in glory Phil. However his proofs out of scripture may sail him Bellarmine abundantly shews from the Testimony of the Fathers that the Saints in Heaven do govern and take charge of the Saints on earth and are therefore in this regard likewise equal with the Angels Theoph. I will take the Testimony of the Antient in due season but I first desire to hear all the Arguments together out of the Holy Scripture proving That the Saints do particularly pray for us and that we must pray to Them for I suppose the foundation of this Doctrine must be sure laid in the word of God or else all will fall to the ground Phil. The Doctrines of our Church are very consonant unto the Scripture and out of them you will find sufficient proof of our duty to call
upon the Saints in Heaven Theoph. Make that good and I shall undoubtedly become your convert Phil. Remember this when we draw towards a conclusion mean while I will not spare to give the premises and proofs Bellarmine undertakes to prove expressly b Quod Sancti sive Angeli sive homines piè ac utiliter à viventibus invocantur That the Saints in Heaven whether Angels or men are piously and profitably call'd upon by us who are Living Theoph. Can you tell the reason why he puts his proposition in such unusual terms the common distinction is of the Angels and Saints in Heaven but he calls them Angels and men and both by the name of Saints Phil. You cannot deny but that Angels are Holy Persons and by consequence that they are Saints Theoph. It is not material what they are by consequence but you know the Angels are not commonly call'd Saints when you propose to speak of the Saints in Heaven none will understand you of the Angels and then for the other member of the distinction c Sive Angeli sive homines Men the Souls of just Men departed are not men The man is dead his immortal Spirit lives and upon this Account when you call upon Peter and Paul to pray for you alas Peter is dead and Paul is dead their blessed Spirits are with God but not their Persons before the general Resurrection Phil. These are but frivolous exceptions do not betray your fears by diverting me from the Cardinals proofs First he alledgeth that plain Text for the Invocation of Angels Gen. 48. 16. The Angel which redeemed me from all evil bless the Lads You see the Holy Patriarch Jacob invocates the Angels blessing upon Josephs two Sons Ephraim and Manasseh Theoph. It is Jacobs Option not a formal Invocation his desire not his praier we may suppose rather that Jacob sends up his hearts desire to God that the Angel which did alwaies deliver him might be a Guardian to these Lads when Isaac blessing Jacob said Gen. 27. vers 29. Let the people serve Thee and Nations bow down to Thee doth he therefore invocate Nations and People or rather pray to God that he would bring it to pass This answer sufficeth if Jacob by the Angel understood a created Spirit but the context makes it evident That the Angel stands for Christ the second person of the Sacred Trinity because he is join'd in this Benedicton with the God of Abraham God before whom my Fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk the God that fed me all my life long until this day the Angel which redeemed me from all evil bless the Lads Observe I pray what great d Oratione quarta contra Arrianos Athanasius saith to this place having prov'd the unity of the Father and the Son because they are join'd in the same prayer 1 Thess 3. 11. Now God himself and our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ direct our way unto you He proceeds to declare That no man can pray to receive any thing from the Father and from an Angel or any other creature no man will say let God and the Angels give Thee and then directly answers this Benediction of the Patriarch That he did not joine a created Angel with God that made him in the blessing neither forsaking him that nurisht him doth he seek for an Angels blessing upon the children but stiling him the Angel that deliver'd him out of all his troubles he manifests that he did not understand any created spirit but Christ the word whom he joines with God the Father in the blessing knowing that he is called The Angel of his great Councel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the Septuagint Herunto agrees a Thes l. 30. cap. 10. Cyrill of Alexandria The Patriarch of God means the Father and by the Angel the word of the Father whose name is the Angel of his councel b Hemil. 66. in Gen. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Chrysostom makes God and the Angel to be the same whose benediction Jacob implores A graceful Soul to God saith He how doth he retain the memory of his favors fixt in his heart He that nurisht me from my youth hitherto he that deliver'd me out of all evil bless these Lads 'T is much the Learned Cardinalshould take no notice of these signal Autorities but bring a Text in two regards impertinent to his purpose as you have heard to prove the Invocation of Angels which would not however infer the Invocation of Saints departed Because Angels are Gods ministring Spirits and more constant in the affaires here below then are the Saints in Heaven of whose Ministerie upon earth we have no account given in the Holy Scripture only that they sing and Bless God and worship him incessantly in Heaven Phil. Give me leave to proceed and shew how our Doctors prove the Invocation of Angels and then I will manifest likewise how it confirms the Invocation of Saints Bellarmine brings three Texts out of the book of Job to shew the early usage of praying to the Angels Job 5. 1. Call now if there be any to answer thee and to which of the Saints wilt thou turn Job 19. 21. Have pity upon me have pity upon me O my freinds for the Hand of the Lord hath touched me Job 33. 23. If there be a Messenger with him an Interpreter one of a thousand to shew unto man his uprightness Then he is gratious unto him and saith Deliver him from going down to the pit for I have found a ransom Theoph. If these be proofs nothing can miss the mark if calling be invocating and Saints be Angels then the first Text may stand the Cardinal in some stead and Eliphaz his Autority must uphold it But the context shews the meaning of the words Eliphaz would have Job enquire and call any one that fears God to witness whether any perished being Innocent Chap. 4. vers 7. or whether a man can be more pure then his Maker Vers 17. Job had complain'd sadly of his affliction and his friends design'd to put him upon the search whether these severe Judgments did not fall upon him for some secret sins The second proof is as wide from the mark as Heaven from the earth his three friends did persecute his Innocency with their grand error and mistake That God never afflicts but for sin and Job intreateth them to spare and pity him For why do ye persecute me as God and are not satisfied with my flesh as it follows in the next vers 22. Phil. Bellarmine shews how S t Augustin in his Commentary upon Job refers both these Texts unto the Angels Theoph. Read S t Augustin in his second book of Retract c. 13. and you will find him doubtful whether he should call it his book Liber cui titulus Annotationes in Job utrum meus habendus est haud facile dixerim Or rather his who collected his imperfect notes he tells us his
Man and his redemtion by Christ and other Mysteries which were made known unto them saith the Apostle in the Churches by the Ministery of the Gospel See Estius in 4. Sent. dist 46. Paragr 19. p. 294. And so while your Doctors without any warrant of Scripture generally lay this for a Foundation That the Saints in Heaven do know our state and bear our Praiers when they come to the proof and confirmation every one abounds in his own sense and they easily confute one anothers Reasons and Opinions and manifest unto their Readers upon due consideration that they are full of uncertainties in the Point which they take for granted and can urge only fallible Arguments to confirm that which they would have receiv'd by all Men as a mesur'd Truth but we have not learn'd to subscribe to Mens Dictates And you acknowledg your Doctor makes not proof of his Assertion which is a great defect this being the main Hinge whereupon the Controversie turns We conclude therefore there is no reason we should call upon the Saints when they do not hear us as a Child doth not ask his Fathers Blessing when he is out of hearing Now you assert with Bellarmin That the Saints in Heaven out of doubt do hear us but you know not how It is probable say you that in the Face of God they see and know all things that concern them but give no reason of that probability and is it fit that a Doctrine of your Church which takes up in that part the Devotion of all Gods People should be grounded only upon such a probability whereof you can give no reason How can I call upon the Saints with Faith and Comfort when I have no assurance that they can hear me I may with as much reason daily beg the Praiers of pious Friends who live far from me and say It is probable God will revele to them that I desire the assistance of their Praiers Phil. Your Instance runs not parallel Our condition here is a state of ignorance their 's a state of comprehension They can see the Face of God and live for ever they certainly know all things which tend to their consummation in Bliss for they are arriv'd at the state of Perfection and perfect Knowledge is the foundation of their Happiness Theoph. The perfect knowledg of God is so Here we know in part saith the Apostle 1 Cor. 13. ver 12. but there we shall know as we are known i. e. fully perfectly and this knowledg and Vision of God is Beatifical But how doth this prove their knowledg of the necessities and Praiers of us poor Mortals here on Earth whom they have leâ—t behind them in the vale of Misery we may rather suppose the wisdom of God hath excluded them from the knowledg of their Friends and Relations and of miserable Man here beneath least it should prove a diminution of their Joy and Bliss Your Angelical Doctor holds o Aqu. part 1. qu. 12. Art 8. ad 4. Cognoscere singularia cogitata aut facta c. non est de perfect It belongs not unto the perfection of a created Intellect to know particulars the thoughts or actions of Men. If God only be seen it sufficeth to make men happy As S t Augustin â— He is happy who knoweth Thee altho he have nothing else In a word Cardinals Cajetane was a Learned Advocate of your Church and had studied the Point in hand much and he concludes at last That we have no assurance that the Saints know when we pray to them altho we piously believe it Phil. I well perceive you have a Spirit of contradiction and please your self much in eluding such Arguments which our Doctors urge from Scripture and reason to prove the Doctrine of our Church touching the Invocation of Saints I will therefore take a more convincing way unto such refractory persons and plainly shew by matter of Fact and express Testimony of the Antients That this Doctrine hath bin receiv'd in the Church Catholic from the beginning Theoph. I presume you mean not from the beginning of Christianity you have heard how the attemt of your Doctors to prove it out of Gods Word hath been altogether unsuccessful and some of your Doctors have confes'd that it is delivered in Holy Scripture very obscurely and others have shew'd the reason even the humility and modesty of the Apostles which with-held them from publishing this Doctrine least they should appear to make themselves as Gods after their decease by requiring the People of God to make their Praiers and Supplications to them Seeing therefore your Doctrine is not sounded in the Holy Scripture I could give a short Answer unto your pretended usage of the Church and Testimony of the Ancient That which S t Augustin gave to Cresconius urging the Autority of Cyprian r I am not bound to the Autority of this Epistle for I do not hold the Writings of Cyprian as Canonical but judg of them by the Canonical Scripture and whatsoever is consonant to the Holy Scripture I receive with praise what agrees not with his leave 〈…〉 eject If you could prove what you have urg'd out of the Canonical Books of the Apostles and Prophets I would not contradict but seeing what you haue is not Canonical with that liberty whereunto God hath called us I do not receive his Testimony whose due Praise I can never equal with whose Writings I dare not compare mine own whose Learning I embrace whose 〈…〉 y I admire whose Martyrdom is venerable Again S t Augustin to the same effect elsewhere It is not sufficient unto the Autority of Faith and of the Dostrines of the Church to say Thus Esay or thou faist or he saith 〈◊〉 Thus saith the Lord. So the Blessed Martyr Gyprian himself We must not been what any one hath done before us but what He who is before all Ages hath taught or communded to be don Once more I could answer you out of Gratian t A Custom without the Word of God to back it is not â— B 〈…〉 quâ— T 〈…〉 scit etiamsi alia n 〈…〉 t. 〈…〉 sec 〈…〉 secundie â—hem qn 88. Art 5. Certaratione nescimus an Sancti vota 〈…〉 se 〈…〉 2. contr Cresconium c. 32. Ego hujus Epistolae c. 〈…〉 do sine verbo Lei non esse veritatem sed vetustatem erroris Truth but the Antiquity of Error The Council of Cartbage resolved thus â— The Lord said in the Gospel I am Truth He said not I am Castom Phil. Can you so easily trample upon the Autority of the Fathers You have formerly pretended much honor to the venerable Testimony of Antiquity where you conceiv'd it consonant unto your Principles and now you would decline that Touch-stone because you know full well it is against you in this Point of the Invocation of Saints Theoph. These Sentences I have produc'd are of the Fathers and seeing the Word of God doth not establish your Doctrine
in these words h Oratione in Athanasium Do thou graciously look down upon us out of Heaven and direct this Holy People and feed and cherish us in peace and in our conflicts guide and supportus and bring us unto the same state of Glory with thy Self and such Blessed Spirits as are like Thee Theoph. Nazianzen was a great Orator and makes such Apostrophe's severally to the Saints upon whom he made his Panegyrics and yet this will not infer That he did believe they heard him or that he made this Application to them by way of Invocation no more then he did to Julian the Apostate after his decease unto whom he directs his Speech for a whole Leaf together in the close of his second Invective Nay you shall find this Orator somtimes to correct himself by an Epanor thosis in the midst of his Rhetorical Apostrophes in his first Invective against Julian in the words of the Prophet Isaiah he calls upon the Heaven and Earth to hear him a Ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Hear O Heaven and give ear O Earth And then it follows Hear O Soul of Constantius the Great if there be any sense in thee of these inferior things In his Fathers Funeral Oration he saith Now he advantages the Church of God more by his Praiers then before by his Doctrine and Preaching if it be not presumtion to say so And in the Funeral Oration of his Sister Gorgonia he is more expresly doubtful Whether this honor is given to the Saints departed as to be sensible of those things that are spoken of them Phil. b Illudsi non est dubitantis sed affirmant Bellarmin takes notice of such Passages and saith Those ifs are not of one doubting but asserting as when S t Paul said to Philemon If thou count me a Partner receive him as my self ver 17. he did not doubt of Philemons affection Theoph. The Circumstances shew the contrary and Bellarmin offers no proof of his consident Assertion but only because It may be so taken in one place it must be in these If your Doctors groundless Shifts and Answers must go for Oracles you may carry all before you For instance in the first If of Nazianzen in his Apostrophe to Constantius after his decease Hear O thou Blessed Soul of great Constantius If thou hast any knowledg of these things I speak c. Dares Bellarmin suppose that Constantius did hear Nazianzen Or that he was a Blessed Soul in Heaven who was so great a Persecuter of the Orthodox Christians in his life time and Protector of the Arrians and upon this account I much wonder how this Holy Father could make such honorable mention of an Arrian Emperor as to stile him c The most famous of Princes that ever were encreasing the heritage of Christ to his power For his zeal of the Orthodox Faith he is generally stiled Gregory the Divine But here we must reckon him to be a vehement Orator and many of his Sentences must be made good only by some Figures of Rhetoric Hyperbolies Apostrophes and the like Phil. Is this your way to answer the Fathers You formerly severely censur'd this way in Bellarmin when he said Chrysostom in many places spoke like an Orator and do you now fall under the same condemnations Theoph. I have given an answer unto Bellarmins Arguments out of Nazianzen and now I make this necessary Observation to the Reader for greater caution Phil. S t Hilary liv'd in this fourth Century an eminent Bishop in France who in his Commentary upon the 129 Psalm tells us That the Angels are Presidents of Churches Theoph. He brings a strange proof of the Assertion Rev. 2. 3. from the Angels of the Churches of Asia which are generally taken by Interpretors for the Bishops of those Churches and they cannot possibly stand for the Heavenly Powers and Spirits because some Infirmities are imputed to them Rev. 2 ver 4. That the Angel of the Church of Ephesus had left his first love that he should repent and do his first works That the Angel of the Church of Laodicea was luke-warm cap. 3. 16. Phil. I pray give me leave to urge the whole Testimony of this Father he saith We may in a probable sense call the Angels The Eyes of the Lord and his Ears his Hands and his Feet for they are his Ministring Spirits And altho the Divine Nature who knoweth all things need not their information yet our infirmity in Praing to God and deserving his savor needs their Spiritual Intercession Theoph. I pray How doth the Ministery and Intercession of Angels prove the Invocation of Saints Such impertinent Quotations are only brought to fill up the number and weary the Reader Phil. Bellarmin shews how the same Holy Father in Psal 124. speaks alike of the Intercession of the Holy Apostles and Prophets Theoph. True he doth Allegorize the Mountains which stand round about Jerusalem a Nec leve praesidium in Apostolis vel Patriarchis Prophetis vel potius in Ang. to be The guard of Saints or rather saith he of Angels about Gods People But leaving S t Hilaries Allegories I pray observe what the Prophet David adds immediatly As the Mountains stand about Jerusalem so the Lord is round about his People from hence-forth even for ever And Hilary thereupon declares b Benum quidem praesidium Angeli sed melius Dei The safe-guard of the Angels is good but of God much better Mean while here is not one syllable of our Invocation of Saints or Angels but only of their Intercession and Protection And by the way you may take this note along with you That Hilary was as bitter in his Invectives and had as great an Indignation against the Emperor Constantius as you but now heard Gregory Nazianzen did extol him Phil. It is not my work to commit the Fathers I proceed in Bellarmins proofs his next out of S t Ambrose is full and without Exception We must pray unto the Angels who are our Guards and to the Saints and Martyrs whose Patronage we may challenge as being of our own Substance they can intreat for our sins who have washt away their own if any they had with their Blood These are Gods Martyrs and our Bishops Over-seers of our Life and Actions let us not c Lib. de Viduis ultra medium Obsecrandi sunt Ang. c. Obs sunt Martyres Corporis pignora blush to admit these as Intercessors for our infirmities because They when they did overcome were yet sensible of the infirmity of the body Theoph. Saint Ambrose was but a young Divine a novice and Cathechumen when he was chosen Bishop of Millam he was train'd up in Civill affairs pleading Causes as a Deputy of the Country administring justice therfore we have no teason to ground our Faith upon his dictates He speaks often piously but not alwaies Orthodoxly do you allow that passage of his in this very proof
a Qui proprio sanguine laverunt si qua habuerunt peccata The Martyrs if they had any sins have washt them away with their own Blood The Blessed Apostle tells us 1 Joh. 1. The Blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all unrighteousness Immediatly before these words which Bellarmin quotes S. Ambrose hath this passage b Infirma est caro mens aegra ad Medici sedem non potest debile explicare vestigium The flesh is weak the mind sick and feter'd with the chains of sin and so we cannot creep to the Physician but must call upon the Angels and Martyrs c. Where do you read in H. Scripture that the sick to wit the sinner cannot come to Christ the Physitian did he not come to call sinners to invite the weary and heavy laden to come to him and find rest you shall hear other Fathers generally contradicting this Doctrine of Ambrose and the Holy Scripture much more yet this is the usual pretence for Saints Invocation and Intercession That we are unworthy of our selves to draw neer to an Holy God to put up our supplications to him of which more hereafter herein S. Ambrose contradicts what he hath piously commented upon the first chap. of the Epistle to the Rom. in the 4 chap. of his Commentary c Solent miserâ uti excusatione per istos posse ire ad Deum ut per Comites ad Reg. This is the miserable excuse saith he that by Angels and Saints we may have access to God being unworthy of our selves to come unto him as we go to the King by his Courtiers For which he answers d Ideo per Tribunos Comites itur ad Regem quia homo est c. Ad Deum a. promerendum qui omnium novit merita suffragatore opus non est sed mente devotâ Therefore we come to the King by his Tribunes and Officers because the King is a man and must receive information from others but to obtain the favor of God who knoweth all mens deserts we need no suffragants but a devout mind whensoever such a one calls upon Him he will answer him Nothing could be more directly oppos'd to your usuall plea for the Invocation of Saints The same Father in his book de Isaac Anima cap. 5 tells us from the third chap. of Canticles and the third vers e Anima quae Deum quaerit transit custodes enim sunt mysteria quae etiam Ang. concupiscunt videre That a Soul seeking God passeth by the keepers for there are mysteries which the Angels them selves desire to looke into Phil. Do you then follow S. Ambrose's direction in one place and I will take his advise in the other Bellarmin brings the testimony of many other Fathers of the later Ages of the Church and I must confess I am almost tired in following him especially seeing you so dextriously shift him off Gregory Nyssen speaks home to the point in the latter end of his Oration opon Theodorus a Martyr thus We want many benefits doe thou become our Legat with the King of Heaven Thou art not ignorant of humane necessities procure peace for us That we have bin safe and sound hitherto we ascribe it to thee If you want more assistance take in the quire of your Brethren the Martyrs The praiers of many Saints wash away the sins of Nations and People In the like manner he speaks in his Panegyricks of another Martyr Theoph. This is sufficient to your purpose you need look no further But I pray tell me do you take him for an Orator or Divine in these passages Is it possible he should in earnest ascribe the preservation of the Faithfull all along unto this Martyr hope for security from him for the future and never take into consideration the divine protection Is it good Divinity to say That the praiers of the Just wash away the guilt of Nations and People and never mention the Blood of Christ and his effectuall Intercession Phil. That is to be suppos'd as the principall the Blessed Saints may be instrumentall in these Blessings Theoph. What you suppose is one thing and what he expresseth another But it is neither good Philosophie nor Divinity to intitle the effect unto the Instruments and leave out the principall Agent Should I make such an harangue to an Artists Tooles give them all the honor of the excellent work he would reckon me besides my wits and himself put besides his due commendation praise Phil. You ask Questions instead of giving Answers But I have now concluded to favor you and not overlade you with innumerable testimonies The Authority of the later Fathers perhaps you will except against in this point Such as Bede and Anselme Bernard Damascene the Elder I have hitherto produc'd and yet there remaine two of the Greek Church and two of the Latin Church whose Authorities I will urge out of Bellarmin in confirmation of this point then I shall give you respite The Greek Fathers are Chrysostome and Theodoret the Latin Jerom and Augustin Theoph. You have made a noble choise herein you much oblige me whilst your wisdom and your zeal do prompt you to urge the most effectuall testimonies on your side that you determine to let the others passe which cheifly serve to fill up a number Phil. Bellarmin quotes an eminent passage out of a Homil. 66 ad pop Antioch Chrysostom but we easier find it in his 26 Homilie upon the second Epistle to the Corinthians from whence we suppose the Homilie was collected it is in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of that Homilie The words out of Chrysostom are these He that weareth purple goes and salutes the sacred bodies and laying aside his state b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. stands praying unto the Saints that they would appear before God in his behalf He that weareth the Diadem beesecheth the Tent-maker and Fisherman being dead to become his Advocates Theoph. This is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a passage whereunto we find not a second like it in all the works of Chrysostom Bellarmine refers to other pâ—â—ces of this Father but according to his accoustum'd manner without truth and reason It is strange therefore if he were of the opinion the practice in his daies was usual to pray to the Saints before their shrines that any where else he should not speak of it and therefore I must tell you that the originall Greek doth not altogether warrant Bellarmin's translation but equally admits another which will fall short of his proof For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well signifies standing in need of the Saints Intercession as praying for it and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He wants their protection Now we may stand in need and may reap the benefit of the Saints supplications in Heaven for the people of God here on earth yet have no warrant to call upon
against any desire That the Faithfull living should assist us with their praiers Theoph. You should not join together the Mediation Intercession of Christ and of the Saints whether in Heaven or Earth And you may observe the Father speaks of k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Intercessors in the plural as of many Implying That one is our Mediator between God and men even the Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim. 2. 5. And withall the Testimony is sufficient against that fond conceit That we are unworthy to draw neer to God in our own persons but by others Intercession Phil. You will draw out your discourse in infinitum by your rejoinders and remarks but I hast to an end The second Greek Father I propos'd was Theodoret a Learned Bishop of Cyprus who in his History of the Lives of Holy Fathers concludes each Life after this manner l Huic narrationi finem imponens rogo ut per horum intercess div cons cuxil I putting a period to this relation and history do pray and beseech that by the Intercession of these Saints I may obtaine Divine assistance Theoph. It is not here exprest that he did pray unto these Saints but we rather suppose to God upon the opinion of their Intercession That he might reap the benefit therof withall he was infected with the hereâ—y of Nestorius and wrote bitterly against Cyrill of Alexanria his twelve Theses and that work of his was condemn'd in the fift general Council and himself thro the violence of oppositions was compell'd against his judgment to pronounce Nestorius accurs'd yet we honor his great Learning and let his memory be precious Phil. I am glad to discover your moderation for there is another most considerable testimony out of him full to the point of Saints Invocation m Libro 8. De curandis Graec affectibus The Temples of the Martyrs are magnificent beautifull in them we often keep festivals such as enjoy health pray to the Martyrs to preserve it such as are sick desire health of them Men and Women who are unfruitfull ask of them Children Such as go a journey desire their conduct and after their safe return they pay their thanks to them owing their security to their favour Now saies he they do not pray to these Martyrs as to God but as unto Holy men whose Intercession they desire and that they often obtain'd their requests the numerous gifts devoted to these Martyrs do testify hanging up in the Martyrs Temples the pictures of theirs eyes and hands and legs in gold which their votaries recover'd by their merits and praiers and Intercession Theoph. These are high things and great assignments unto the Martyrs Methinks there should of right have bin som reflexions upon God in these deliverances and cures sure there was somthing in the wind that Bellarmin only refers to this passage and doth not set it down in full length being so full to his purpose in the 18 th chap. he hath part of this quotations but not the whole Perhaps the Cardinal was not fully satisfied with the person of Theodoret or rather with the book it self which n Niceph. l. 44 c. 54. Nicephorus doth not reckon up among Theodoret's Works when he gives an account of all his books these 8 books De curandis Graecorum affectibus are not mentioned o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Those which he wrote are these c. And withall your Learned Cardinal knew well That what Theodoret if this book were his did build with one hand he pull'd down with another as to this point of Invocation of Saints or Angels For in his Commentary upon the 2 d chap. of S t Paul to the Colossians vers 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of Angels I say Theodoret in his Commentary upon this place cuts off the sinews and foundation of Saints and Angels Invocation He shews how some Jewish Christians in Phrygia and Pisidia being zelous of the Laws did worship Angels by whom the Law was given and build Temples to S t Michael and others and that this course continued long among them p Bin. Concil Lacd Tom. 1. can 35. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. And therfore that in the 4 th Century a Council of Bishops in Laodicea the Metropolis of Phrygia neer neighbor to Colosse did expresly forbid the worship of Angels calling it Idolatrie That Christians ought not to leave the Church of God and depart and call upon the Angels and make assemblies and if any be found to be conversant in this hidden Idolatrie let him be accursed Now this voluntary humility which S t Paul mentions refers to that humble pretence That sinners are not worthy to draw neer to God themselves but by the Intercession of Saints Angels Intruding into those things which he hath not seen vainly puft up in his fleshly mind saith the Apostle That is saith Theodoret a Propriis utens rationibus cogitationibus using his own reason and imaginations c. now saith he the b Synodus volens veteri illi morbo mederi cavit ne precarentur Angelos Synod of Laodicea desiring to cure this old dicease forbids them to pray unto Angels And you will grant if we must not pray to Angels neither to the Saints For you have deriv'd cheifly the Invocation of Saints from that of Angels Phil. c Ibid. cap. 20. Bellarmin hath answer'd this passage of Theodoret and of the Council of Laodicea and the Text of the Apostle together Namely d Apostolum damnare haeresin Simenis Magi qui decuit Angelos quasi minres c. That the Apostle condemns the heresie of Simon Magus who taught like Plato that the Angels should be worships as lesser Deities and that none could please the invisible God but by the Angels And he tells us That the Council e Concilium non damnat quamvis venerationem Ang. sed quae Deo propria did not condemn all worship of Angels but only such veneration as is proper to God Theoph. Observe the incongruity of this Answer as to several particulars He saith the Council condemns not all Veneration of Angels but only such as is proper to God the supreme Deity and yet according to his own relation Simon Magas and the Jewish Christians that worshipt Angels did not worship them as the Supreme Deity but only as subordinate Intercessors And S t Paul and the Councel of Laoduea condemns this That in voluntary humility they should deprive them selves of that priviledg to come to God themselves and so make way unto him by the Intercession of Angels The Apostle therefore and the Council sorbid this inferior worship as Theodoret observes f Ne precarentur Angelos That they should not pray to the Angels to make way for them unto the Great God And in the next chap. of S. Paul to the Colossians vers 17. the Apostle
contemn'd death might learn much more to contemn their Burial He shews That Funeral Solemnities are a Magis sunt vivorum solatiaquam subsidia Mortuorum rather comforts to the living then assistances to the dead And then coming near unto the Question touching the advantage of being buried in a Martyrs Temple He answers in those words which Bellarmin cites I see not how such a provision can benefit the Person deceas'd unless herein That whil'st his Friends remember where his Body lies Interr'd they may be apt to commend him to the Patronage of that Saint for assistance with God Phil. This plainly proves the particular Invocation of Saints departed Theoph. Have patience and S t Augustin in the next Chapter will shew what he meant by this recommendation The pious Mother saith he did desire her Son should be buried in the Martyrs Temple believing that so his Soul should reap some benefit from the Martyrs merits And then he immediatly adds b Hoc quod ita credidit suppli catio c. This belief of hens was a kind of Praier and if any thing did profit her Son This was it You plainly see how doubtfully the good Father speaks concerning the benefit of burial near a Martyr and how he expresly interprets praying to the Saint to be our believing that by his Merits we shall reap some advantage to our Souls He proceeds in that Book to shew That altho there have bin appearances of Ghosts complaining That their Bodies did lie unburied yet these things may come to pass by Divine permission thro the Ministry of good or evil Angels the Spirit departed knowing nothing of the Apparition He gives an Instance of an Executor who after his Fathers decease was much distressed with the demand of a great Debt which was supposd to have bin paid but having no Discharge to shew it was like to lie upon him Mean-while his Father appears to him and directs him to the place where he should find the Acquittance and a full discharge of the Debt Now by this Apparition Men may be apt to conclude That the deceas'd Father understood and compassionated his Sons condition and came to his relief and yet saith S t Augustin All this might come to pass by Divine Providence without his deceased Fathers knowledge And gives an Instance of himself appearing to a Friend of his in his Dream whilist himself knew nothing of it Eulogius was to read a solemn Lecture before a great Auditory in Carthage upon Tullies Rhetoric and one obscure passage there was which he did not well understand and was very solicitous how to interpret it And lo the night before saith S t Augustine as Eulogius declares I appeared to him in his Dream and shew'd him an apposite sense of the Words This is in the 11 th Chapter of the Book In the 13 th Chap. he concludes That of such Apparitions whether of Persons living or defunct are made to others themselves being altogether ignorant thereof And he concludes farther That there is no commerce between the living and the dead for otherwise saith he my most deer Mother would have often appear'd to me and manifested her care and love for God forbid That I should think she is become cruel by her state of Happiness And if our Parents and nearest Friends have no communion with us after death How should others thay are Strangers S t Augustin goes on to tell us That the Children of Abraham expresly say to God Isaiah 63. 16. Surely thou art our Father altho Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledge us not That Josiah was gathered to his Fathers that his eyes might not see the evil which should be brought upon Jerusalem 2 Kings 22. 20. implying That after death he should not know it Therefore saith he b Ibi sunt spiritus defuncti ubi non vident quae hic aguntur c. The Souls of dead Men are where they do not see what things are done here below And how then can they see their own Tombs And whereas Abraham did know Moses and the Prophets and their Writings when he directed Dives his Brethren unto them He might know them saith he by their own Relation after their decease In the 15 th Chapter he concludes fully c Fatendum est Nescire Mortuos quid hic agatur We must confess that the dead do not know what is here done unless somthing may be made known to them by the relation of Angels or persons lately deceas'd And whereas saith he at the Shrines and Monuments of Martyrs Miracles have bin wrought and Martyrs themselves have appear'd to the living yet they might not themselves know that they did appear as we read That Ananias appear'd to Saul in Damascus himself knowing not of it until the Lord acquainted him therewith The Lord said unto Ananias Acts 9. 11 12. Arise and go into the street which is called Strait and enquire in the House of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus for behold he Praieth and hath seen in a Vision a Man named Anaâ—ias coming in and putting his hand on him that he might receive his sight At length he concludes d An ista fiant Dei nutu per Angelicas potestates in honorem c. Such Miracles at the Shrines of Martyrs may be done by Gods permission thro the Ministry of Angels and Holy Powers in honor of the Saints and for the benefit of Men the Saints themselves being enter'd into the highest rest and attending unto more excellent things being sequestred from us and praying for us Phil. S t Augustin acknowledgeth you see that the Saints and Martyrs do pray for us Theoph. Yes in general as he expresseth it in the 16 th Chap. e Ipsis in loco suis meritis congruo ab omni mortalium conversatiens remotis c. They being remov'd from the society of Mortals in a place suitable to their merits and yet in general praying for the indigency of poor Supplicants As we pray for the dead with whom we are not present neither know we where they are or what they do Thus have I given an account of S t Augustins Judgment out of this Book to shew That he did not believe the Saints departed knew our conditions or that Praiers were to be made to them That which he mentions concerning the Praiers of the living for the dead that will fall into consideration hereafter Now as this excellent Father is voluminous so are there scattered in his Works many other Passages to take us off from the Invocation of Saints That even at their Shrines we ought not to pray to them but to God a Lib. 8. De civit Dei cap. ult He tells us That whatsoever Religious Obsequies are used in the Temples and Places of the Martyrs they are Ornaments of their Memory That we may give thanks to God for their Triumph and may encourage others to their Imitation from the renewing of their Memories
b Eodem Deo invocato in auxilium The same Lord being call'd upon for our assistance Mark it God being call'd upon for his assistance that we may imitate the Martyrs Virtues c Lib. 20. Centra faustum Manich. c. 21. Quod offertur Deo offertur c. Again he tells us That which is offer'd at the Shrines and Memories of the Martyrs is offered to God Phil. This is true as to Sacrifices which belong only to God but not as to our Praiers Theoph. Our Praiers are Christian Sacrifices ascending up like the Incense and the Evening Sacrifice Psal 142. 2. Offer unto God thanksgiving and pay thy Vows unto the most highest and call upon me in the time of trouble saith the Prophet David Psal 50. 14 15. So Tertullian Phraseth it d Lib. Ad Scapulam Sacrificamus Deo pro salute Imperat. sed prece pura We sacrifice unto God for the health of the Emperor but with pure Praier And in his Apology for Christians Chap. 30. e Offero opimam majorem Hostiam orationem de carne pudica c. I offer to God saith he a more excellent Sacrifice even Praier proceeding out of pure lips and an innocent heart and from the Holy Ghost So Clemens Alexandrinus Lib. 7. Stromatum f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We honor God by Praier and send up this best and most holy Sacrifice Our Praiers therefore are the most acceptable Sacrifices from us to God Of your transcendent Sacrifice of the Mass we may God willing treat hereafter Again in his first Tom. Lib. De ver a Relig cap. ult he tells us That the service of the Body may be due to Princes the service of the Soul to God He tells us farther g Ecce unum Deum colo quisquis Angel diligit hunc Deum certus sum c. Behold I worship one God the Fountain of all things and the Angels that love God I am sure they love me Whosoever abides in him and can hear the Praiers of Men in him he heareth me and in him he helps me h Religat ergo nos Religio uni Omnipotenti Deo Religion therefore binds me to one Omnipotent God The good Father often tells us That the Blessed Saints and Angels expect no such service from us but expresly saith he they direct us to pray to God i Psal 96. Tom. 8. Omnes Sancti Angeli c. Ad ejus cultum c. All the Saints and Angels seek his glory whom they love and they study to draw all whom they love to his Worship and to his Contemplation and to pray to him To this effect elsewhere he tells us a Lib. de Pastoribus c. 8. Sunt montes boni sc autores divin script The Authors of Holy Scripture are good hills and when we look unto them they will send you back to God in whom standeth your help b Si in iis spem posueris contristabuntur If you put confidence in them they will grieve The Angel saith he that related many Mysteries to John being worship'd by him he calls him back to God c Tanquam levantem oculos ad Montem revocat ad Deum as one that did lift up his eyes to the hills saying See thou do it not worship God I am thy Fellow-servant d Enar. upon Psal 64. 3. Solus ibi ex his qui carnem c. Again he sheweth How Christ is our High Priest enter'd within the veil who only of all that lived in the flesh there doth make Intercession for us And this saith he was shadowed under the Law for in the first Temple only the High Priest enter'd into the Holiest of all and offer'd Sacrifice for the People standing without Once more in the 10 th Book of his Confessions chap. 42. S t Augustin speaks fully against Invocation of Angels e Quem invenirem qui me reconciliaret Tibi Whom may I find saith he to reconcile me to thee O God! Shall I go to the Angels With what Praier with what Sacraments Many desirous to return to Thee and distrusting themselves as I hear have tried this way and have fallen into the curiosity of Visions and became meet for Delusions And now after all that you have heard out of S t Augustin I pray judg whether Bellarmin had reason to appeal to him for the confirmation of the Invocation of Saints Phil. Notwithstanding all your insulting Triumphs what hath bin brought by Bellarmin out of S t Augustin hath not bin impertinent But you forget one notable passage which Bellarmin quotes out of S t Augustin in his 18 th Chapter of this Book and Controversie you promis'd to take these Testimonies into consideration in your own season but you have forgotten it f Aljuvet nos Cypr. Orationibus suis Lib. 7. de Baptism Contra Donatist c. 10. It is a formal Invocation Let Cyprian help us with his Praiers Theoph. 'T is no Invocation of Cyprian but S t Augustins desire put up to God That the Blessed Martyr Cyprians Praiers might benefit him It implies the Supplication of the Saints in Heaven for the People of God in general and his Praier to God That he with others might reap the fruit of their Praiers Phil. I will conclude with Bellarmins last Argument the Miracles that have attested this Doctrine whereby the Saints and Martyrs have demonstrated That they do hear our Praiers and can help us Theoph. For a general Answer hereunto we have already shew'd out of S t Augustin That Miracles may be done at the Monuments of the Saints and themselves may appear unto Votaries in their Temples and yet know nothing neither of the Miracle or the Apparition God by the ministery of Angels working Miracles and Cures at their Shrines for a Testimony unto the Faith for which these Martyrs died Phil. This general Answer will not serve For the Learned Cardinal proves out of the 3 d Book of S t Bernard's Life That the Holy Father Preaching at Tholouse against such who denied the Invocation of Saints before all the Congregation blessed Loaves of Bread with the Sign of the Cross and offer'd this trial of his Doctrine That if it were true all who had Diseases in the great City eating of these Loaves should be healed And so multitudes were healed of their Infirmities Here you see God did attest the Doctrine of Invocation of Saints by Miracle Theoph. Bernard liv'd in the 12 th Century and so the Testimony runs low But withal the Abbot who wrote those four Books as a Legend of Bernards Life suited the fabulous credulous humors of these Times he makes him a Wonder-worker thro-out I well remember That above 30 Years since being a Novice in the University and reading this account of S t Bernards Life I could not choose but abhor the notorious Forgeries of the Writer I pray read and judg Phil. I see you will not be convinc'd and therefore
you put the poor ministring Angels out of Office delegating their ministery and powers unto the Saints triumphant and yet I cannot let pass without a just indignation and censure these forementioned Threats in the Popes Bulls and Letters That the indignation of our great God and of his two Apostles Peter and Paul should be threatned together as tho one were as much to be fear'd as the other and so likewise for the conferring of blessing and the return of thanks they are directed to God and to the Saints It is Bellarmin's close in every Tome a Laus Deo beatae Virgini Praise be given to God and to the Blessed Virgin and so all the Jesuits conclude Nay Gregory de Valentia puts the Virgin before our Saviour in the close of many of his Books Laus Deo beatae Virgini Mariae Domino Jesu Christo Nay we read how Pope Pius the fift ascrib'd that famous Victory over the Turks in the Battel of Lepanto to the Virgin Mary and appointed a Solemn b Festum S. Mariae à Victoriâ Octobr. 7. Feast in memory thereof We shall find likewise in c Epistolarum lib. 12. Epist. 22. Speramus in câ—nip Dei virt in beati Petri Apost Principis adjutorio Gregory the Great such expressions as these We trust in the power of the most high God and in the help of blessed Peter the Prince of the Apostles Now the holy Fathers taught us another lesson as I have intimated partly before not to join together almighty God and the Angels or any other Creature in our supplications or benedictions or threats or confidences d Oratione 4. contra Apr. Great Athanasius proves the unity of God the Father and of Christ because the Apostle hath join'd them in one praier God him self and our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ direct our way unto you 1. Thess 3. 11 And he proceeds No man must pray to receive any thing from the Father and from the Angels or any other Creature e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 neither may any one say God and the Angel give thee this Upon this ground as you have heard he concluded in Jacobs blessings upon the sons of Joseph that the Angel stands for the Son of God the Angel of his Counsel as the Septuagint read Is 9. 6. So a Thes l. 3. c. 1. Cyril of Alexandria No man would endure to hear any one say Would God and some Angel would direct your course to us c. But alas in your Church your ears are accustom'd to such blasphemous conjunctions Jesu Maria is an usual oath among you and God help you and the Blessed Virgin you wish if a beggar ask you Alms you say God relieve and S. Peter And so you have heard the imprecations of your Popes The indignation of God Almighty and of Peter and Paul light upon you Now saith holy Athanasius b Loco citat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. It sufficeth these things should come from the Father alone no Creature communicating So ye make solemn vowes unto God and some particular Saint in trouble and after deliverance pay to the Saint your vows Nay Cardinal c In 2. secundae q. 88. Art 5. Eâdem ratione votum sit Dâ—o Sanctis nec obstat quod sit actus relig quia ejusdem virtutis est vovere â—rare Cajetan maintains That a vow is made to God and to the Saint in the same manner altho a vow be a religious Act for we may as well make vows to them as praiers And therefore notwithstanding all your qualifying distinctions and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there appears little difference in the Invocation of God and of the Saints especially when you come to the practice of this Doctrine These Instances which we have already given are authority sufficient unto the undiscerning people to ask all blessings from the Saints and to hope from them to receive blessings as confidently as from Almighty God Phil. No they are taught to expect blessings from God for the sake and Intercession of the Saints Theoph. And they are taught and accustom'd to ask blessings of the Saints without any such limitations but in an absolute manner Phil. If the limitation be not exprest it must be implied Theoph. It seems the ground of your peoples error is expressed when the Hymns and prayers of your Church ask grace and protection of the Saints without the reserve that they should procure them by their Intercession But that which should undeceive them is supprest or as you will have it implied that what they ask absolutly of the Saints they must understand it only in reference to their praiers and Intercession And so the ignorant people who understand only the plain words of the petition and not the sense of the Church which is understood are induc'd to hope in the Saints for their succours and to fly to them in trouble as to their cheif Sanctuary and to return their thanks and their vows to them for their deliverance d â—omm in lib. 8. Aug. de Câ—v Dei Multi Christiam divos divasque non aliter venerantur quam Deum c. Ludovicus Vives complains that the common people highly offend in not discerning between the worship of God and of the Saints nor doth their opinion saith he of the Saints want much of what the Heathen do believe of their Deities or Idols Phil. What value we Ludovicus Vives come to the point What are these praiers to the Saints which you say our Church owns and prescribes and are so offensive to your tender ears and such a snare unto the people of God among us Theoph. Such as have the opportunity to search into your Breviaries and Missals have collected their gross absurdities and your Doctors as I can find have not bin sollicitous to answer them I shall give you some instances which I have taken out of one of your service books stiled a Ordinarium secundum usum Sarum The Ordinary after the use of Sarum printed at Paris by William Merlyn In the Office of the Virgin we have these passages b Tuum nobis impende solatium per te mereamur habere praemium cum electis Dei reenum Impart to us thy comfort by thee may we deserve the reward and the Kingdom of Heaven with the Elect. Again c Tuo pio interventu c. ut per te redemti sedem gloriae c. By thy pious intervention wash away our sins that being redeemed by thee we may climb the Seat of eternal glory O holy Virgin thou alone hast slain the heresies of the World d Accipe quod offerimus redona quod rogamus c. accept what we offer give what we ask and excuse what we fear Then follows a Formal praier or Collect e O Regina Mundi Scala Coeli Thronus Dei Janua Parad. c. O Queen of the world the ladder
the Decree Ad eorum orationes opem auxiliumque confugere Phil. I have no reason to admit sinister constructions any farther then the words will necessarily force me Now the later terms may be Exegetical of the former and well transpos'd thus To fly to the aid and assistance of their Praiers And then tell me what have you gotten by this decree Theoph. Your practise will best interpret your Rule If the public praiers of your Church request more of the Saints in Heaven then the assistance only of their Praiers you may suppose your Church intended and understood and exprest more in her decree You shall find your Church often to supplicate That as well by the Merits as by the Intercession of the Saints God would be favourable unto them In the Hymnes above mentioned to the Virgin Mary she is call'd the Mother of Grace and mercy and Protection from our Ghostly Enemy is sought from her and reception into Glory So likewise in the hymne of the Apostles Grace and Vertue is desired of the Saints for such as languish in their Vices And that by the command of the Apostles as it is exprest and not by their Praiers And yet Bellarmin hath the confidence to interpret all these things according to the sense of the Church as he speaks That all these things are expected from their Praiers not from any other assistance You shall find several Popes in the Names of Peter and Paul promising great things unto Princes who shall engage in the defence and cause of the Church and threatning dreadfull Judgments from them upon such as are disobedient Pope Hadrian writing to the Emperor Constantine and Irene his Mother Congratulates their embracing the Faith of Peter and Paul Princes of the Apostles and promiseth a Binius Teme 5. p. 554. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. They shall protect the Empire make them Victorious and bring the Barbarous Nations under their feet On the contrary we find direful threats from these two Apostles Pope Pius the 4 th concludes his Bulls after this sort b Nulli hominum liceat bane c vid. Concil Trid. edit per Joan. Gallemaâ—t ad finem Let none presume to infringe this our Declaration If any shall attemt to do so let him know he shall incur the wrath of God Almighty and of his two blessed Apostles Peter and Paul These things are Obvious and I will not heap Quotations to prove them I will only give you an Account of one notable Letter to this effect which I mention'd in the beginning of this Conference and will now transcribe much of it for your sake and the Readers that ye may judge what your Popes opinion was of the power and Parronage of the Apostles and so by consequence of the other Saints c Bin. Tom. 5. p. 55. Pope Stephen the 3. being grievously streightened by Aystulphus King of Lombardy who with a Potent Army besieged Rome sends a Letter in the name of S t Peter unto Pipin and his two sons Charles and Carloman Kings of France It begins thus d Petrus Apost vecatus à Jesu Christo dei filio c. Peter call'd to be an Apostle by Jesus Christ the Son of God c. Grace Peace and Power c. To you most excellent men Pipin Charles and Carloman 3 Kings c. After the salutation he proceeds e Ego Petrus Apost dietus a Christo c. I Peter an Apostle being call'd by Christ and the good pleasure of the Divine Clemency and ordain'd by his power to enlighten the whole world f Quamobrem omnes c. Therefore all Men who fulfil my Preaching and command must believe That their sins by Gods precept are forgiven in this World and shall go into life Eternal without Blemish c. Therefore I Peter c Who have Adopted you for my Sons do exhort you to defend the City of Rome and my Sepulcher and Temple there against the Incursion of my Enemies g Pro certo confidite memet ipsum c. And know ye for certain that I my self will be present with you to assist you as tho I were present and visible in the Flesh for altho I am absent in the Flesh I am present in the Spirit Now our Lady the Mother of God the Thrones and Dominions and all the Host of Heaven with the Martyrs and confessors of Christ with all obligations possible do adjure you to assist my City and People of Rome with your utmost power and speed h Et ego Petrus in hac Vita c. And I Peter by way of recompence will become your Brother in this life and in the day of Gods strict Judgment prepare Mansions for you in the glorious Kingdom of God the reward of eternal recompence and the Infinite joies of Paradice Nay whatsoever Protections and assistance you will ask I will give you I therefore Conjure you by the most beloved living God that ye permit not my City to be sackt by the Lombards least your Souls and Bodies be likewise torn and tormented in everlasting Fire with the Devil and all his Pestilent Angels i Firmiss tenete quod ego c. Ye must firmly believe that heretofore when you Prai'd unto me I did help and give you Victory over your Enemies by the power of God when you were few in number in comparison of the Enemies of the Church k Ecce chariss fili c. He concludes Behold my dear sons I have warned you if you obey with speed it shall be your great reward and my suffrage shall help you in this life ye shall overcome your Enemies and live long and eat good things and afterwards ye shall inherit Eternal life But if ye make any delay know ye that by the authority of the holy and individual Trinity and by the Apostolical grace given unto me ye shall be alienated for the transgression of this my Exhortation from the Kingdom of God and from life Eternal Phil. I have had the Patience to hear you I pray let me now understand your design in these Instances Theoph. Your Popes are public Persons and you would have them thought to be guided by an infallible Spirit especially in their Buls Epistles and serious agitations not to err And you see what power they ascribe to the Saints departed not only of Interceding but Acting for us and against our enmies And partly from thence your Doctors have taken occasion to instruct the people to invoke them as Patrons and Protectors and Saviours out of trouble Now you have a rare art of Reduction if you can bring all this under the single head of Intercession that they effect these things only by their praiers to God and not by a delegacy of his power to them Phil. It comes all to one if by their praiers they obtain such power to save and to destroy Theoph. Take your suppositions for granted and the case is clear Mean while