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A94294 A discourse of the right of the Church in a Christian state: by Herbert Thorndike. Thorndike, Herbert, 1598-1672. 1649 (1649) Wing T1045; Thomason E1232_1; ESTC R203741 232,634 531

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Provinces as having Commission to conclude them in which case they must needs be considerable according to the Provinces for which they stood So in all things which may concern the Whole not onely every mans rank of Bishop Presbyter or Deacon is to be considered but also the eminence of the Church in which he bears the same So that by this reason nothing hinders a Presbyter of some chief Church to be of more consideration to the Whole then a Bishop of some mean Church such as we spoke of in Africk And therefore it would be inconsequent that the determinations of Synods should passe indifferently by the Votes of Bishops unlesse we suppose that consideration is had of the chief Churches and this consideration answered in the eminence of that respect which the Bishops of those chief Churches enjoy inswaying the determinations of those Synods to which they concur And this consideration might perhaps have served to take off part of S. Hieromes displeasure against Bishops grounded upon the Power which their Deacons had by their means above Presbyters which he in regard of the great difference between the two degrees in generall thinks to be so great an inconvenience Epist LXXXV ad Euagrium For though it is most true in regard of the Presbyters and Deacons of the same Church that it was a disorder that Deacons in regard of their neernesse to the Bishops should take upon them above Presbyters yet if we compare the Deacon of a chief Church with the Presbyter of a small country Parish no man can say that he is of lesse consideration to the Whole Church in regard of his rank unlesse he mean to make Steven or Philip Titus or Timothy or any of those that waited on the Apostles in person and were properly their Deacons as I have said in assisting them to preach the Gospel where they came to be meaner persons in the Church then one of those Presbyters which Paul and Barnabas Titus or Timothy Ordained in the Churches of those Cities where they came To that which I say p. 92. to prove that the word Angel in the Epistle to the VII Churches Apoc. II III. being an obvious and proper metaphor to signifie a Bishop or Presbyter cannot therefore be used to signifie a College of Presbyters the word being no collective nor any construction inforcing it to be used for a collective in all that Epistle I adde here the comparison of two passages by which it may be gathered for what reason and in what consideration the Spirit speaketh to the Body of those Churches in the Epistle directed to the Angels of them and by consequence who those Angels are The first is that of S. Paul to Titus II. 10. A man that is an Heretick after the first and second admonition avoid For is it S. Pauls purpose to command that onely Titus avoid those whom he should declare Hereticks Surely that would be to no great effect unlesse we understand that by virtue of this precept both Titus is enabled to charge the Churches under him to avoid them and they thereupon obliged to doe it The other is the Epistle under the name of Ignatius to Polycarpus wherein after such advise as he thought fit for Polycarpus without turning his speech from him to another person he proceeds to exhort his people with such instructions as he found to bee most requisite Which feems to be the reason why many count that Epistle counterfeit and none of Ignatius his own though for my part I confesse I am not yet perswaded to think so not onely because of the character both of the matter and language of it which seemeth to me to carry the stamp of Apostolicall upon it as the rest of Ignatius but also particularly because of the example of this Epistle of S. John to the VII Churches wherein it is plain he involves both Pastor and flock in the same praises reproofs advises and exhortations the reasons being the same in both because both sent to be read to the People in the Church as the Epistle to the Colossians and the Laodiceans Coloss IV. 15. and as the Epistle of Clemens to the Corinthians Eusebius says was wont to be read in that Church in his time Now if the instructions concerning the people be addressed to Titus and Polycarp is it not because of some eminence of authority in them by which they might be brought into effect among their people How much more that which is addressed unto the Angels of VII Churches being a style apt to signifie a person of eminent authority over others but never used to signifie a Body of persons much lesse with parallel authority among themselves It is commonly conceived that the Souls under the Altar which we reade of Apoc. VI. 10. were seen by S. John lying under the Altar of Burnt Sacrifices at the foot whereof the rest of the blood that was not sprinkled on the Altar was poured out and the blood being the life or Soul of living creatures in the language of the Scriptures that therefore the souls of those that were slain for the profession of Christianity are seen by S. John under the Altar Against this apprehension I allege p. 95. that it is not the Altar of burnt Sacrifices but the Altar of Incense within the Tabernacle but without the Vail which is represented in these Visions correspondent to the Primitive fashion of Churches where the Communion Table called also the Altar because of the Sacrifice of the Crosse represented upon it stood in the midst of that compasse which the Seats of the Bishop and Priests did enclose For though in the Temple the people prayed without the Sanctuary the Priest whose Office it was at the same time offering Incense with their Prayers yet in the Church where all the people are within the Sanctuary as Priests the XXIV Presbyters are described with golden Vials full of Incense which is the peoples prayers as David saith Let my prayer be set forth in thy presence as the Incense Apoc. V. 8. and besides the Angel puts Incense upon his Censer to the prayers of the Saints Apoc. VIII 3. therefore his fire is from the Altar of Incense within the Tabernacle though without the Vail Besides it is not imaginable how the souls of those that were slain could appear to S. John in Vision of Prophesie lying under the Altar of Burnt Sacrifices where the bloud of Sacrifices was poured out and that in such a multitude as we know there was of the Primitive Martyrs Especially seeing the circumstances of the Text inforces that they are the same Souls which first cry for vengeance and have long white Robes given them because they are not presently satisfied Apoc. VI. 9 10 11. and which are afterwards described standing and praising God in the white Robes that were given them afore Apoc. VII 9. And therefore when they are said to be seen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the meaning is not that they were seen lying
because as our Saviour Christ rides forth thereupon at the beginning so at the end of the Prophesie XIX 11. he appeares again riding on the white horse which he appears mounted on at the beginning So that he which went forth to conquer at the first returns to take vengeance at the last as he is there described In the next place I will not much intreat any man to grant me that the souls under the Altar VI. 9. are the Martyrs which suffered for the Gospel under the Romane Emperours in the ten Persecutions For that S. John addressing this Prophesie to the Churches of Asia I. 11. and that with a promise of happinesse to them that should reade and keep it I. 2. should not speak of things done during those times when those Churches stood and wherein they were concerned is a thing that no common sense can imagine God then being importuned by the bloud of the Martyrs sheweth that he determines to take vengeance of the same Which he further declares by the vision of seven Angels ready to blow seven Trumpets Apoc. VIII 2. For with these seven appears another that puts much incense to the Prayers of the Saints upon the Golden Altar before the Throne What prayers of the Saints but those which the souls of the Martyrs had made for vengeance before For immediately thereupon the said Angel takes the Censer upon which he had put Incense to the Prayers of the Saints v. 3. and fills it with fire from the Altar and throws it upon the earth and there comes forth noise thunder lightning and earthquake Apoc. VIII 5. the figures of this Vengeance Besides it appears that after the VI seals he proceeds to declare the vengeance promised the Martyrs because immediately after the sixth Seale there appears four Angels ready to destroy the earth Apoc. VII 1. But because God would shew his Prophet that he meant as well to preserve a number of his own as to take vengeance upon the Persecutors therefore he suffers them not to proceed till his own be marked These Prayers are therefore called also the Prayers of all the Saints Apoc. VIII 3. to shew us that though they are expressed at the opening of the fifth Seale to be onely the Prayers of the Martyrs Apoc. VI. 9. yet we are to understand that those which are sealed and saved from the vengeance inflicted on the Persecutors doe joyn in the same For the Martyrs that had long white Robes given them Apoc. VI. 10. doe appear again praising God in those white Robes Apoc. VII 9 14. But we must needs imagine that the meaning of the Vision is that those which were sealed and saved joyned also in the same praises of God For Apoc. XIV 1 3. where the same CXLIV thousand that were sealed afore appear again and immediately the same voice of Gods praises is heard like the noise of Harpers but as loud as thunder or as many waters it is said that no man could learn the Song but the CXLIV thousand redeemed from the earth So then both the Martyrs and those that are sealed joyn in the praises of God therefore in the prayers also for the fulfilling whereof those praises are tendred which are therefore called the Prayers of all the Saints because as well those that were sealed and saved as those that suffered Martyrdome are to be conceived to joyn in them as well as in the Praises of God And therefore the Plagues which they procure began from the going forth of the Gospel because from thence began the sufferings of the Martyrs which appeared at the beginning of the fifth Seale as also the Praises tendred to God by those that were sealed and escaped Though they were not to be accomplished but with the number of their brethren that were to be slain as well as themselves Now the summe of the Prophesie being propounded in the Figure of a Book with seven Seals which none but the Lamb could open Apoc. V. the effect of the seventh is divided into seven Trumpets wherewith seven Angels publish the vengeance which God had promised to take upon the Persecutors of his Martyrs at the opening of the fifth Seal Apoc. V. 9 10 11. VIII 2. So that the Martyrs being those that suffered by the Romane Empire the vengeance is that which was taken upon the Romane Empire This as the most judicious of our late Expositors confesseth and proveth so had he considered the consequence of it he would have found himself constrained not to part the tenth Chapter and that which followeth from the rest that went afore but to expound all to one and the same effect the oversight whereof is in truth the cause of his whole mistake For whereas the Angel pronounceth three woes to come upon the sounding of the three last Trumpets Apoc. VIII 13. two whereof are repeated after the fifth and sixth IX 12. XI 14. is it not manifest that the effect of the seventh Trumpet is divided into and comprised in seven Vials of the last plagues Apoc. XV. 1 7. as the effect of the seventh Seal was in seven Trumpets otherwise how comes it to passe that where the third woe is proclaimed upon the sounding of the seventh Trumpet Apoc. XI 14. there follows nothing but rejoycing Onely because the joy of the Saints for the advancement of Christianity is joyned with the woe that comes upon the Persecutors And the joy is mentioned here the woe deferr'd till the seven Vials which contain the effect of the seventh Trumpet come Therefore they are called the last plagues Apoc. XV. 1. to wit of those which the Martyrs bloud Apoc. VI. 9 required For the Plagues as they began so they must needs be accomplished after the Persecutions And all this gap between the sixth Trumpet and the seven Vials is made on purpose to reveal more largely the cause of those last Plagues to wit the Persecution which God punishes For what signifies the victory of Michael and his Angels over the Devil and his and the taking of the child up to Gods Throne Apoc. XII 5 7. but Gods decree that Christianity should prevaile Wherefore the flight of the woman into the Wildernesse following in time the fall of Satan into the world which caused it Apoc. XII 6 9. must needs begin as soon as Persecution for Christianity began And the same CXLIV thousand which were sealed afore the Trumpets Apoc VII 3 appear again with the Lamb after sixe of them Apoc. XIV 1. as having escaped the Persecution represented in the thirteenth Chapter as well as the Plagues attending on it and therefore were sealed that they might escape it Therefore the same persons being preserved the same Persecutors must be understood The same it is which S. Paul had Prophecied of 2 Thess II. though it seems there was more revealed to S. John by succession of time For whereas by many passages of S. Pauls Epistles it appears that he had conceived that the end of the world was
desired who having white Robes granted them in stead of that present justice which their Prayers sollicited are afterwards described standing with their faces toward the Throne the Lamb and the Elders as the People in the Church at Divine Service towards the Bishop and Presbyters Which particulars too long here to be deduced are easie to be observed by comparing Apoc. V. 8. VI. 9 10 11. VII 12 14. VIII 3 4 5. Adde hereunto the saying of Ignatius that the Bishop in his Church bears the figure of the Father of All to wit in the whole Church Triumphant and unto that the Ordinary expression of the Jews when they use the term of God and his House of Judgement 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is his Court or Consistory to represent the Majesty of God sitting in Counsell or in Judgement upon the World with the Angels about him in the Old Testament but the Saints in the New attended by the Angels Mar. XIX 28. Luc. XXII 30. 1 Cor. VI. 2. Apoc. XX. 4. which expression of theirs is manifestly borrowed from the Scriptures of the old Testament every where representing the Majesty of God in this posture Ps LXXXIX 8. Dan. VII 9. Psal CXLIX 1. Deut. XXXII 2. and you have not onely a Commentary upon this whole passage but also a Confirfirmation of all that hath been or shall be said that the Bishop and Presbyters are the same in the Church as the Sanedrin and the Head of them in the Synagogue All this is yet more fortified by the testimony of Tertullian De Praescript cap. XXXVI that the very Chairs in which the Apostles sate in their Churches were extant in his time as saith he were also the very Originals of their Epistles in the Churches to whom they were sent and as the Chair of S. James at Jerusalem was extant in Eusebius his time Eccles Hist VII 19. Adde further The uppermost Seats in Synagogues which the Scribes and Pharisees desired Luc. XI 43. adde the Apostle 1 Cor. XIV 25 30. distinguishing between the Seats of private persons and Prophets which the supposed S. Ambrose expounds by the Custome of sitting in the Synagogue as I have shewed in the same place adde The Chair of Moses on which the Scribes and Pharisees sate in succession to him who taught the people in that posture with the Priests sitting about him as Philo expoundeth the Text Num. XV. 33. Mat. XXIII 2. and I suppose we have not only evidenced to common sense the Superiority of the Bishop above the Presbyters by his Place in the Church but also the distinction of the Clergy from the People by the same Which Point that I may deduce with that care which the consequence of it requires it will be worth the inquiry first by what title of Right the Celebration and Consecration of the Eucharist belongs only to Presbyters which as it seems to be agreed upon on all sides so let the Reason also once be agreed upon why it belongs only to them and thereby it will appear that it is convertible with the Power of the Keys that is that the Power of the Keys also belongs only to Presbyters whereas the Offices of Preaching and baptizing are communicable to their inferiours and that it belongs also to all Presbyters and so by consequence that there is no such thing as Lay Elders The Presbyterians stiling their Pastors Ministers of the Word and Sacraments in opposition to their Lay Elders seem to ground this Right upon the Commission of our Lord to his Apostles Goe preach and make Disoiples all nations Baptizing them as if this were the Office wherein Presbyters succeed the Apostles though of the Eucharist there is here never a word But if they consider what it is to Preach the Gospel to Unbeleevers or rather what it was before the Gospel was received any where it will easily appear that unlesse they be mad men that go about it it is necessary that they be indowed with abilities to make it appear even to the enemies of the Gospel that they are sent by God to Preach it Therefore no man succeeds the Apostles in the Office of Preaching the Gospel to the Nations And therefore if they will take notice they shall easily observe that the Title of Minister of the Gospel Minister of the Word of the New Testament Minister of the Church and others equivalent are never given to any but the Apostles in the Scriptures unlesse it be to their Scholars and Substitutes the Evangelists because they were to the Apostles as the Apostles to Christ and Christ to God that is they were Ministers of the Apostles assumed by them to the work which Christ had trusted them in Person with of Preaching the Gospel and planting Christianity And therefore when need was were able to make their Commission appear by the works they did though in an inferiour degree because they proceeded upon that stock of reputation which the Apostles had won the Gospel by their Preaching and Miracles Such titles you shall finde attributed to the Apostles and their Followers and Substitutes 1 Cor. III. 5. 2 Cor. III. VI. 4. XI 23. Col. I. 23 25. Eph. III. 7. VI. 21. 1 Thess III. 2. Col. IV. 7. I. 7. Acts I. 17. VI. 4. XX. 24. XXI 19. but no where to Presbyters For the name of Presbyters as also of Bishops is Relative to the People of those Churches whereof they are Bishops and Presbyters signifying them to be the best qualified of all the Body of those Churches chosen and constitute to conduct the rest in Christianity And therefore the Apostles also are Presbyters as S. Peter and S. John style themselves 1 Pet. V. 1. 2 John 1. 3 John 1. because the greater includes the lesse and because they had power in all Churches as Presbyters in one But Presbyters are never called Apostles because the greater is not included in the lesse and because Presbyters never had Commission to preach the Word or the Gospel in the sense whereof I speak here that is to publish the Gospel to Unbeleevers And whereas there is the same difference between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the one part and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the other as there is between Publishing the Gospel to Vnbeleevers and instructing Christian Assemblies in it we never finde the former attributed to any Presbyter in the Scriptures but we finde both attributed to the Apostles because their Commission was to Publish the Gospel to all Nations and to make them Disciples by Baptizing them and being such to Teach them further to observe all that our Lord commandeth Mat. XXVIII 19 20. Mar. XVI 15. Thus the Apostles Acts V. 42. ceased not to Teach and Preach Jesus Christ in Houses and in the Temple To Teach the Church in those Houses where the Christians assembled to serve God as Christians and to Preach to the Jews in the Temple whither they resorted for that Service Acts II. 42 46.