Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	angel_n	golden_a	incense_n	1,470	5	12.0788	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10345	The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.	Rainolds, John, 1549-1607.; Hart, John, d. 1586. aut; Rainolds, John, 1549-1607. Sex theses de Sacra Scriptura, et Ecclesia. English. aut	1584 (1584)	STC 20626; ESTC S115546	763,703	768

manifest testimonie that their praiers are offered in heauen vnto God by anie other person then by Christ Iesus the hye Priest of our profession the Angell of the couenant the onely mediator betweene God and man And this doth séeme to be that Angel that other Angell of whom it is writen in the Reuelation An other Angell came and stoode before the altar hauing a golden censer and there was much odours giuen vnto him that he should put them into the prayers of all the Saintes on the golden altar which is before the throne and the smoke of the odours which were put into the prayers of the Saintes went vp before God out of the Angels hand For although the Angels be ministring spirites sent forth to minister for the Saints on earth who shall inherite saluation and therefore as they serue to certifie them that their prayers are come vp before God so they might rather offer their prayers to God then the Saintes in heauen who haue no such ministery to serue the Saintes on earth yet because this Angell standing with a censer at the altar of incense to burne perfume before God is set forth as dooing that duetie which the hie Priest did figure in the law and our hye Priest is no created Angel but he by whom the Angels were created euen Christ it foloweth that Christ is meant by the Angell To whom this name is giuen oftentimes in scripture because he is an Angel that is to say a messenger sent by God his father to open his will vnto his seruants and worke their saluation by his couenant And it may be that as God the father hauing said of him Behold I send an Angell doth adde my name is in him to shew that he is God so to distinguish him from the created Angels who are often mentioned in the Reuelation S. Iohn doth cal him an other Angell as differing from the rest not onely in number but also in nature autoritie and dignitie For those things which are writen of the Angell who had the seale of the liuing God who casting fier into the earth the Angels blew their trumpets and powred out the plagues of God who comming downe from heauen clothed with a clowde and the rainebow vpon his head and his face was as the sunne his feete as pillers of fier had in his hand a little booke set his right foote on the sea and his left foote on the lande which are namely written of an other Angell an other mightie Angel as he is also called doo if the circumstances of the text be weighed best agrée to Christ. But whether it be so or no it is certaine that Christ is the Angell who putteth odours of most sweete perfume into the prayers of all the Saintes as our hye Priest and offreth them to God his father to whom he maketh alwayes intercession for vs and is not onely for our prayers but for our selues also an odour of a sweete smelling sauour before him Wherefore sith the scripture manifestly sheweth that our Sauiour Christ offreth the prayers of all the Saintes and not that the Saintes in heauen offer the prayers of the Saintes on earth you might haue bene contented to leaue this honour vnto Christ and haue suffred me to go forward with your reasons about the offering in Malachie For you see how we are fallen from the Pope to Priests from Priests to the Masse from Masse to the Saintes And if I should folow the same veyne on that which you haue saide of Saintes and touch your abuse who confessing that the scriptures giue that name to faithfull and holy persons in earth yet to maintaine your solemne inuocation of dead men do make it proper not to Saintes in heauen but to them whom it shall please the Pope to canonize or deifie as the Master of his sacred ceremonies termeth it wherin notwithstanding your Doctors also teache that the Pope may erre and canonize a wicked person for a Saint so that it may be euen by your owne doctrine that in your Church-seruice you worship them as Saints whose spirits are in hell with the deuill and his Angels I say if I should flit thus from point to point on euery occasion that your speech doth offer we should confound our conference and neuer make an end of the point in question Wherefore let other questions I pray be reserued to their due place touchinge the faith of the Church And now to finish this touching the head of the Church let vs go forward with your Masse-priestes that so we may returne to the Popes supremacy Of the sixe reasons therfore which you alleaged out of D. Allen to proue that the cleane offring which Malachie doth write of is the sacrifice of the Masse and not spirituall sacrifices the first is conuinced clearely to be false and that by the consent of all the same Fathers whom he would proue it by For the word which noteth an outward sacrifice with him with all them is incense of sweete perfumes and odours But incense in the scripture is taken for the praiers of the Saintes as you grant The word then which he doth build the Masse vpon is not alwayes taken properly in scripture for the act of outward sacrifice Hart. But he doth not onely vrge the word to sacrifice for which indéede the Fathers and the Hebrewe text haue incense but the word to offer And if that be alwaies taken properly for the act of outward sacrifice his reason is of force still Rainoldes But the force of his reason doth lye vpon the word to sacrifice not to offer For him selfe granteth that lay men yea women too are said to offer properly and truely when as in the olde law the tithes and first fruites commanded to be giuen to the Leuites and the poore were presented before God so they present bread and wine for the communion or almes for the reliefe of the poore and needy or any earthly giftes and offerings for holy vses as the Fathers shew Wherefore though the word to offer were alwaies taken properly for the act of outward offering it proueth not the offering of your outward sacrifice sith the wise men offered giftes vnto Christ the faithfull Iewes at the altar lay men and women at the Masse and yet nether any of them were Massing-priests nor their offerings Massing-hosts Much lesse doth it proue it as Malachie applyeth it to the offering of incense For as incense signifieth the prayers of the Saintes so to offer incense must be to sacrifice those prayers But the sacrifice of prayers is a spirituall sacrifice Wherfore the word to offer doth not proue your outward sacrifice of the Masse And so the first reason is gone The second foloweth which is no sounder then the former For why doth Allen say that the

it is impossible they should merit Hart. Nay I meant not so For though they be defiled as they are of our selues yet as they are of Christ whose grace worketh in vs they are pure and perfit Rainoldes Then as they are wrought by the grace of Christ so they may be the offering which the Prophet speaketh of For they are pure and perfit so and therefore cleane by your owne opinion Hart. But the Propheticall offering is cleane of it selfe Our workes are not cleane of them selues but of Christ and therefore can not be that offering Rainoldes Now may you féele the falshood of D. Allens dealing For himselfe addeth those words of it selfe to make his reason serue the Prophet saith no more but that the offering is cleane Wherefore sith our workes are cleane and vndefiled chiefly as Papistes iudge our workes might be meant by the Propheticall offering howsoeuer they be vnperfit and impure of them selues Hart. What And doo you thinke M. Rainoldes that our workes though vncleane of them selues yet as they are wrought by the grace of Christ are cleane and vndefiled And see you not then that of the other side you consent in the chiefest point of Catholike faith with Papists as you terme vs For if you thinke in deede that our workes bee cleane as they are wrought by grace then must you néedes thinke that we may so fulfil the law and merit life and be iustified by workes not by faith onely Rainoldes I meant not so M. Hart. But according to the prouerbe that for a hard knot a hard wedge must be sought I thought good to cleaue a Popish dreame in sunder with a Popish fansy For otherwise I know that although our workes be wrought by Christes grace yet is mans nature and flesh in vs who worke them and therefore doo they cary a staine of vncleannes It was of grace that the children of Israel did consecrate their holy thinges and giftes to God Yet that worke of theirs was not frée from spot in so much that Aaron must beare on his forhead a plate of pure gold wherein was ingrauen Holines of the Lord a monument of Christ that hee might take away the iniquitie of the holy thinges which they consecrated of all the giftes of their holy thinges and he should beare it alwayes to make them acceptable before the Lord. It is of grace that the Saintes of God doo pray to him Yet the other Angel that stoode before the altar with a golden censer had much odours giuen him that hee might put them into the prayers of all the Saintes vpon the golden altar which is before the throne and the smoke of the odours put into the prayers went vp before God out of the Angels hand Which is a token that the prayers of Saintes haue their infirmitie and yeelde no sweete smelling fauour vnto God without fauour in Christ. To be short in all the gratious and good workes of men God doth worke in vs both to will and to doo But euill is so present with vs that the good which we would doo we can not wee would through Gods grace we can not through our frailtie Yea when we doo good it is a will rather of dooing then a dooing we are so farre from perfit dooing it For wee ought to loue God with all our heart and with all our soule and with all our strength with al our thought and our neighbours as our selues But as long as the flesh doth lust against the spirit and a law in our members doth rebell against the law of our minde which is as long as we are in this body of death we loue him not with all our heart soule strength and thought but with part and therefore in lesser measure then we ought Now whatsoeuer is lesse then it should be is fautie for it transgresseth his commandement Wherefore sith our workes should bee doon with perfit loue of God and men and that perfit loue we haue not in this life it foloweth that our workes in this life are fautie yea though they 〈◊〉 wrought by the grace of Christ. Not as though his grace had any blemish God forbidde but because our selues in whom it worketh are corrupt as water though it flow from a fountaine most cléere yet if it doo runne through a muddy chanell it becommeth muddy So nether fulfill we the law in any worke much lesse in all our workes which they must doo who will fulfill it for he that offendeth in one is guiltie of all nether can we merit ought at Gods hands much lesse eternall life for he oweth vs no thankes though we did all thinges which are commaunded vs because we ought to do them and what is our desert then who doo not all things nether may wee possibly be iustified by workes before the iudgement seat of God for cursed is euery man that continueth not in all things which are written in the booke of the law to doo them and we all offend in many things Hart. But if all our workes be muddy as you say and stained with vncleannesse then is it much surer that the cleane offering which the Prophet speaketh off cannot betoken them For the Lord reproueth the Iewish Priests there for offering vncleane bread and sacrificing the blinde the lame and the sicke Wherefore sith of the contrarie he saith that the offering made among the Gentiles shall be a cleane offering it foloweth that he meant not the spirituall sacrifices that is the workes of Christians and what then but the outward sacrifice of the Masse Rainoldes In déede if cleane things stained with vncleannesse were the verie same that vncleane things you might iustly thinke that our spirituall sacrifices could not be allowed no more then the carnall of those Iewish Priests But the onely sacrifice that is cleane perfitly and hath no staine at all is Christ the vndefiled and vnspotted Lambe offered on the crosse to sanctifie vs with his blood The sacrifices of the faithfull are cleane but vnperfitly and therefore néede his fauour with pardon as I shewed that they may be acceptable to God through Iesus Christ. The sacrifices of the wicked and hypocrites are vncleane as being either vnlawfull such as were the blinde and lame and sicke among the Iewes or offered vnlawfully with mindes and consciences defiled So the sacrifices of those Iewish Priests which God reproueth were absolutely vncleane Our spirituall sacrifices are vnperfitly cleane cleane in comparison and cleane by acceptation Cleane in comparison respect of men as Habacuk complaining that the wicked man deuouteth the righteous saith him that is righteous in respect of him selfe praysing not the righteous man as simply righteous but in comparison of the wicked Cleane by acceptation in the sight of God who dealing as a louing father with his children taketh in good part that which they

we shall raigne vpon the earth By the which wordes it seemeth that he openeth what the prayers are which they offer to Christ. And sith they who offer them doo say of them selues that Christ hath made them Kinges and Priests which S. Iohn before affirmeth of the Saintes on earth it may be that they also and not the Saintes in heauen onely are represented by the foure and twentie Elders Hart. Nay the foure and twentie Elders are described with golden crownes vpon their heads And the crowne is giuen to Saintes in heauen as it is writen Be thou faithfull vntill death and I will giue thee the crowne of life Rainoldes The rewarde of life giuen to the Saintes in heauen when they haue striued as they ought to doo and gotten the victory is called a crowne or as we speake a garland by allusion to a custome that was among the Grecians For such as got the masterie in their games of wrastling or running or the like were crowned with a garland in token of victorie Whereupon the scripture by a figure of spéech doth call life eternall wherewith God rewardeth the conquerours the crowne of life not a corruptible crowne as those of the Grecians were but incorruptible a crowne that can not wither euen a crowne of glory And as the crowne is taken in this sense for a garland to signify the blisse of endlesse life and ioy it is giuen onely to the Saintes in heauen who rest from their labours But the foure and twentie Elders had golden crownes set vpon their heads and a crowne of gold betokeneth a kingdome Wherefore sith the Saintes on earth are kinges also and not the Saintes in heauen onely the foure twentie Elders may signifie them both As it is both their duties to cast their crownes before the throne and say to him who sitteth on it Thou art worthie O Lord to receiue glory and honour and power for thou hast created all thinges and for thy willes sake they are and were created Hart. But they are saide also to be clothed in white raiment And the white raiment is vsed to betoken the brightnesse of glory wherewith the Saintes in heauen are clad For Christ doth pronounce of the godly in Sardis that they shall walke with him in white and when vpon the mountaine his clothes were white glistering it was a token of his glory Rainoldes But as white raiment doth betoken glory so doth it grace too For our Sauiour aduiseth the Church of the Laodiceans to buye of him white raiment that she may bee clothed and that her filthie nakednesse doo not appeere And the scripture sheweth touching the faithful of al tongues and peoples and kinreds and nations that they had washed their robes and made their robes white in the blood of the Lambe Wherefore sith no more is saide of the Elders but that they were in white raiment it may as wel agrée to the Saintes on earth who are in white of grace as to the Saintes in heauen who are in white of glory Hart. But they were sitting on foure and twentie seates about the throne of God and the throne is saide to haue béene set in heauen Wherefore it can not be that the Saintes on earth should be meant thereby Rainoldes Why Was not S. Paul on earth when he said our conuersation is in heauen Or doth he not meane the same of all the faithfull who liue after the lawes of the heauenly citie that is the Church of God and are not earthly minded Doth not S. Iohn him selfe in the Reuelation say that a great wonder appeered in heauen a woman clothed with the sunne and the moone was vnder her feete and vpon her head a crowne of twelue starres and she was with childe and cryed trauailing in birth and was pained readie to be deliuered And is not the Church on earth hereby meant clad as it were with Christ who is the sunne of righteousnes treading downe things worldly which change as the moone adorned with the doctrine of the Apostles as of starres and bringing forth the faithfull as children vnto God Doth not he say farther that there was a battel in heauen Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his angels but they preuailed not nether was their place found any more in heauen And is not this also meant of the militant Church in which the Prince of the faithfull Michael that is Christ with his angels and seruants doth fight against the dragon that is the deuil with his angels euen all his powers and ministers and doth preuaile against them Then if the Church militant on earth be represented both in this battel and in that woman as your selues confesse and yet S. Iohn describeth the one to haue appeered the other to be doon in heauen the foure twentie Elders might haue their seates in heauen by S. Iohns vision and notwithstanding signifie the faithfull on the earth also Which yet I say not as defining it to be so for I had rather learne then teach the Reuelation wherein I doo acknowledge there are many mysteries that God hath not reuealed to me but onely to shew that you haue no ground in the holy scripture why you should restraine it to the Saintes in heauen And if I could satisfie my selfe with such aduantage to plucke downe your fansies as you content your selues with to set them vp I might as well restraine it to the Saintes on earth sith the Elders say we shall raigne vpon the earth perhaps as Christ said that the meeke are blessed for they shal inherite the earth But you and your Rhemists should haue doon well before you medled with the scriptures to learne S. Austins lesson giuen to the Donatists who when they alleaged as fit a place of scripture out of the song of Salomon to proue that the Church was in Afrike alone as you to proue that Saintes in heauen know our desires out of the Reuelation S. Austin telleth them that he were very impudent who would expound an allegorie or darke speech of scripture for his owne aduantage vnlesse he haue also plaine and manifest testimonies by the light whereof the darke may be made euident Which point in this place doth touch you the néerer because though it be graunted that the Elders signify the Saintes in heauen alone yet the praiers which are spoken off may be their owne praiers to shew that they serue God as it is shewed after that the Angels doo and all the creatures in heauen and on the earth and in the sea and vnder the earth and the foure beasts and finally them selues againe For there are manifest testimonies of scripture that all the Saintes offer vp their owne praiers in which respect they all are Priests But no