Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	ancient_a	church_n	see_v	1,231	5	3.8295	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56149	The altar dispute, or, A discovrse concerning the severall innovations of the altar wherein is discussed severall of the chiefe grounds and foundations whereon our altar champions have erected their buildings / by H. P.	Parker, Henry, 1604-1652.	1642 (1642)	Wing P393; ESTC R21276	49,491	88

for_o the_o same_o reason_n whatsoever_o be_v former_o by_o some_o imagine_a we_o know_v that_o the_o east_n be_v name_v so_o from_o the_o rise_n of_o the_o sun_n and_o we_o know_v the_o sun_n have_v neither_o rise_v not_o set_v but_o comparative_a and_o so_o america_n be_v as_o proper_o east_n as_o china_n for_o if_o america_n lie_v west_n to_o we_o yet_o it_o lie_v east_n to_o china_n which_o lie_v east_n to_o we_o the_o doctor_n tell_v as_o not_o certain_o whether_o the_o ancient_n pray_v eastward_o because_o their_o church_n be_v so_o build_v or_o whether_o they_o build_v so_o because_o they_o praye●_n so_o but_o both_o way_n he_o make_v use_n of_o it_o for_o his_o own_o posture_n although_o we_o may_v both_o way_n as_o probable_o thus_o reto●●●_n to_o the_o contrary_a if_o the_o christian_n pray_v eastward_o only_o because_o their_o church_n be_v so_o build_v than_o they_o hold_v that_o posture_n of_o pray_v in_o itself_o indifferent_a and_o if_o they_o build_v so_o because_o they_o pray_v so_o than_o they_o hold_v the_o posture_n for_o build_v so_o to_o be_v indifferent_a and_o sure_o the_o proof_n be_v very_o weak_a that_o the_o primitive_n do_v put_v any_o virtue_n in_o all_o place_n of_o the_o world_n either_o in_o building_n or_o in_o pray_v eastward_o since_o it_o be_v most_o apparent_a that_o private_a dwelling_n and_o pagan_a temple_n and_o jewish_a synagogue_n be_v at_o first_o convert_v into_o church_n and_o some_o new_a erection_n be_v not_o contrive_v in_o this_o eastern_a posture_n for_o his_o second_o proof_n the_o doctor_n say_v that_o ancient_o according_a to_o bishop_n juell_n the_o choir_n or_o chancel_n be_v draw_v with_o curtain_n and_o this_o will_v be_v very_o unsightly_a he_o say_v if_o the_o table_n shall_v stand_v in_o the_o middle_n 〈◊〉_d far_o from_o the_o wall_n the_o doctor_n here_o make_v no_o difference_n between_o a_o cathedral_n and_o parochial_a church_n for_o in_o par●chials_n a_o curtain_n may_v hang_v at_o the_o chancel_n door_n without_o incumb●ance_n and_o in_o cathedral_n it_o may_v be_v draw_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o choir_n without_o any_o inconvenience_n though_o the_o table_n stand_v not_o near_o the_o wall_n in_o our_o cathedral_n the_o quire_n be_v now_o so_o spacious_a that_o a_o three_o part_n of_o they_o may_v be_v assign_v to_o the_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o or_o altar_n place_n and_o yet_o all_o the_o congregation_n may_v stand_v in_o the_o other_o division_n nay_o if_o in_o saint_n paul_n london_n the_o altar_n wall_n be_v again_o remove_v as_o it_o be_v in_o ridleys_n time_n the_o altar_n will_v be_v see_v stand_v in_o the_o very_a middle_n of_o the_o choir_n for_o his_o three_o proof_n the_o doctor_n cite_v the_o altar_n in_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n which_o not_o stand_v to_o the_o east_n be_v story_v to_o have_v differ_v in_o posture_n from_o all_o other_o church_n if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o all_o church_n in_o the_o west_n part_n from_o antioch_n nay_o all_o of_o the_o whole_a world_n have_v altar_n stand_v towards_o the_o east_n this_o prove_v not_o that_o they_o touch_v the_o east_n wall_n and_o stand_v side_n way_n the_o doctor_n four_o proof_n be_v from_o the_o division_n in_o church_n for_o first_o occur_v he_o say_v the_o seat_n of_o the_o presbyter_n and_o then_o above_o they_o the_o episcopal_a throne_n and_o above_o all_o the_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o this_o be_v speak_v only_o of_o cathedral_n and_o in_o cathedral_n we_o see_v the_o same_o division_n still_o yet_o see_v withal_o that_o betwixt_o the_o bishop_n throne_n and_o the_o altar_n wall_n there_o be_v a_o great_a distance_n so_o that_o the_o altar_n be_v not_o necessary_o drive_v close_o to_o the_o wall_n the_o doctor_n last_o and_o main_a proof_n be_v from_o the_o custom_n of_o papist_n who_o since_o they_o retain_v the_o old_a fashion_n of_o their_o building_n be_v not_o likely_a to_o innovate_v in_o the_o fashion_n of_o their_o altar_n this_o proof_n be_v no_o stranger_n for_o altar_n posture_n then_o for_o the_o multitude_n of_o pillar-altar_n chappell-altar_n and_o requiem-altar_n and_o for_o a_o thousand_o other_o superstition_n and_o yet_o we_o answer_v more_o over_o that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o easy_a for_o the_o papist_n to_o alter_v in_o the_o fashion_n of_o church_n as_o altar_n and_o therefore_o this_o be_v a_o very_a non-concludent_a argument_n i_o have_v now_o answer_v doctor_n heylin_n and_o i_o may_v proceed_v to_o confute_v he_o also_o but_o that_o be_v do_v to_o my_o hand_n by_o a_o lin_n minister_n in_o a_o book_n call_v the_o holy_a table_n name_n and_o thing_n and_o hither_o i_o shall_v refer_v all_o that_o be_v unsatisfy_v in_o this_o point_n i_o shall_v note_v only_o of_o that_o learned_a author_n that_o he_o put_v his_o example_n of_o the_o chief_a metropoly_n of_o europe_n and_o asia_n and_o in_o rome_n itself_o his_o first_o instance_n be_v in_o the_o catacombe_n the_o most_o ancient_a and_o reverent_a church_n there_o wherein_o saint_n paul_n and_o peter_n first_o be_v bury_v and_o where_o none_o may_v officiate_v but_o the_o pope_n yet_o even_o this_o church_n be_v not_o canonical_a in_o this_o eastern_a altar_n posture_n his_o next_o instance_n be_v in_o saint_n peter_n there_o the_o holy_a mother_n church_n of_o the_o world_n for_o 〈◊〉_d there_o that_o most_o reverent_a altar_n which_o stand_v over_o the_o translate_v b●nes_o of_o peter_n and_o 〈◊〉_d stand_v some_o distance_n from_o the_o wall_n many_o other_o instance_n be_v give_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v repeat_v and_o yet_o of_o all_o instance_n none_o can_v be_v more_o convince_a the●_z those_o of_o his_o four_o table_n so_o precious_a and_o rich_o adorn_v and_o inscribe_v round_o about_o which_o be_v dedicate_v at_o constantinople_n rome_n and_o s._n dennis_n if_o altar_n be_v only_o in_o use_n why_o be_v such_o incredible_a cost_n pow●ed_v out_o upon_o table_n if_o the_o altar_n posture_n be_v only_o in_o use_n why_o be_v those_o table_n round_o about_o on_o 〈◊〉_d side_n inscribe_v when_o the_o inscription_n have_v be_v 〈◊〉_d in_o part_n obliterate_v i_o come_v now_o to_o this_o late_a age_n and_o to_o our_o own_o nation_n in_o the_o time_n of_o edw●●●_n we_o find_v that_o altar_n be_v take_v down_o that_o hooker_n preach_v against_o they_o that_o ridley_n take_v away_o the_o altar_n wall_n in_o paul_n to_o destroy_v the_o posture_n of_o they_o that_o bucer_n complain_v in_o c●or●_n tantum_fw-la sacra_fw-la representari_fw-la and_o when_o at_o first_o thing_n be_v not_o full_o settle_v when_o the_o old_a posture_n be_v reject_v and_o not_o any_o new_a one_o instead_o thereof_o constant_o 〈…〉_z we_o find_v huggaid_n deride_v that_o incertainty_n and_o we_o find●_z king_n edward_n second_o liturgy_n end_v that_o doubt_n by_o appoint_v the_o north_n side_n of_o the_o table_n for_o the_o place_n whereat_o to_o officiate_v in_o the_o time_n of_o queen_n eliz._n we_o find_v a_o injunction_n to_o place_v the_o table_n where_o the_o altar_n stand_v save_v when_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v and_o other_o thing_n refer_v to_o the_o appointment_n of_o visitor_n and_o in_o the_o three_o of_o queen_n eliz_n the_o visitor_n set_v forth_o their_o order_n that_o the_o step_n in_o the_o chancel_n shall_v be_v decent_o 〈◊〉_d and_o that_o there_o the_o communion_n table_n shall_v stand_v out_o of_o the_o time_n of_o receive_v and_o we_o know_v no_o reason_n w●y_v they_o which_o endure_v not_o the_o form_n of_o a_o altar_n shall_v endure_v the_o posture_n or_o why_o they_o which_o like_v not_o that_o posture_n in_o time_n of_o receive_v shall_v like_v it_o at_o other_o time_n or_o why_o they_o shall_v call_v that_o the_o north_n side_n which_o our_o doctor_n now_o will_v needs_o understand_v the_o north_n end_n of_o the_o table_n last_o 〈◊〉_d sanctorum_fw-la be_v interpres_fw-la praeoeptorum_fw-la we_o must_v believe_v that_o the_o altar_n posture_n have_v not_o be_v so_o general_o use_v in_o all_o parochial_n in_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n ever_o since_o the_o reformation_n and_o no_o care_n thereof_o take_v by_o authority_n if_o it_o have_v be_v irregular_a but_o the_o doctor_n say_v that_o the_o altar_n posture_n be_v retain_v in_o the_o king_n chapel_n and_o in_o cathedral_n and_o that_o they_o ought_v to_o give_v law_n and_o not_o to_o receive_v it_o from_o parochial_n for_o answer_v we_o say_v that_o chapel_n and_o cathedral_n have_v their_o own_o peculiar_a statute_n and_o may_v differ_v sometime_o from_o themselves_o therein_o and_o from_o parochial_n but_o parochial_n be_v all_o govern_v by_o the_o public_a canon_n beside_o we_o see_v there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n in_o the_o very_a fabric_n between_o cathedral_n chapel_n and_o parochial_n and_o therefore_o in_o parochial_n

but_o a_o slanderous_a consequent_a issue_v out_o of_o his_o malice_n not_o out_o of_o our_o tenet_n for_o if_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o sacrament_n do_v not_o whole_o consist_v in_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n or_o the_o honour_n of_o sacrifice_n in_o the_o external_a work_n do_v there_o be_v no_o more_o necessity_n of_o altar_n than_o table_n or_o that_o either_o altar_n or_o table_n shall_v be_v hold_v so_o essential_o honourable_a to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o this_o may_v be_v hold_v by_o he_o which_o hold_v not_o all_o place_n equal_a and_o indifferent_a for_o divine_a service_n wherefore_o as_o for_o saint_n cyprian_n rule_n eucharistia_n in_fw-la altari_fw-la consecratur_fw-la which_o doctor_n pocklington_n affirm_v to_o be_v undeniable_a we_o say_v it_o must_v stand_v with_o our_o saviour_n example_n who_o do_v administer_v the_o eucharist_n upon_o a_o real_a table_n but_o upon_o a_o imaginary_a altar_n and_o so_o we_o be_v not_o oppose_v to_o it_o but_o say_v doctor_n heylin_n further_o material_a altar_n be_v very_o ancient_a in_o the_o church_n which_o if_o they_o be_v not_o erect_v for_o our_o sacrifice_n certain_o they_o be_v for_o popish_a and_o this_o will_v prove_v popery_n to_o be_v very_o ancient_a i_o answer_v the_o doctor_n have_v not_o prove_v formal_a stone_n altar_n so_o ancient_a but_o if_o he_o have_v he_o have_v not_o prove_v antiquity_n free_a from_o all_o error_n and_o superstition_n but_o we_o can_v easy_o prove_v the_o contrary_a but_o doctor_n heylin_n proceed_v thus_o he_o which_o teach_v that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v neither_o priest_n sacrifice_n nor_o altar_n proper_o so_o call_v bring_v in_o confusion_n and_o ruin_n into_o the_o church_n take_v away_o all_o external_a worship_n enable_v every_o man_n to_o the_o priestly_a function_n and_o rob_v the_o church_n of_o all_o due_a reverence_n this_o be_v a_o strange_a inference_n that_o i_o can_v sufficient_o honour_v the_o sacrament_n but_o under_o the_o name_n of_o sacrifice_n nor_o minister_n but_o under_o the_o name_n of_o priest_n nor_o the_o communion-table_n but_o under_o the_o name_n of_o altar_n d._n heylins_n supposition_n herein_o of_o i_o must_v be_v more_o weighty_a than_o my_o own_o certain_a knowledge_n of_o myself_o doctor_n pocklington_n also_o concur_v herein_o for_o he_o which_o deny_v altar_n say_v he_o may_v as_o well_o deny_v church_n and_o he_o which_o deny_v church_n may_v as_o well_o deny_v the_o throne_n of_o bishop_n in_o the_o choir_n near_o the_o altar-place_n and_o he_o which_o deny_v throne_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o christian_a religion_n by_o a_o strange_a dismember_v deform_a kind_n of_o argumentation_n he_o make_v altar_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v as_o throne_n of_o bishop_n and_o throne_n as_o the_o succession_n of_o bishop_n and_o the_o succession_n of_o bishop_n as_o the_o rock_n and_o foundation_n of_o all_o religion_n cartwright_n ames_n and_o those_o of_o geneva_n and_o all_o other_o country_n which_o can_v derive_v their_o lineal_a succession_n of_o bishop_n from_o the_o apostle_n be_v puritan_n and_o heretic_n though_o they_o scarce_o differ_v from_o we_o in_o any_o other_o point_n of_o consequence_n yet_o in_o this_o they_o be_v in_o worse_a condition_n than_o the_o papist_n the_o anchor_n of_o our_o salvation_n be_v that_o my_o lord_n of_o canterbury_n be_v lineal_o descend_v from_o saint_n peter_n for_o no_o inthronization_n of_o bishop_n no_o personal_a succession_n and_o no_o personal_a succession_n no_o derivation_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v from_o god_n to_o etc._n etc._n be_v not_o this_o write_v against_o puritan_n or_o by_o such_o as_o have_v a_o authority_n to_o prove_v quidlibet_fw-la ex_fw-la quolibet_fw-la it_o will_v deserve_v laughter_n and_o not_o a_o answer_n but_o now_o we_o must_v be_v more_o serious_a the_o allegation_n be_v that_o there_o be_v the_o same_o evidence_n for_o altar_n as_o throne_n and_o therefore_o since_o it_o be_v most_o impious_a to_o deny_v throne_n it_o be_v the_o like_a to_o deny_v altar_n i_o wish_v throne_n have_v be_v better_o prove_v for_o if_o throne_n do_v prove_v altar_n yet_o man_n of_o such_o ordinary_a faith_n as_o i_o may_v something_o scruple_n throne_n themselves_o saint_n aug._n say_v that_o throne_n be_v remain_v at_o rome_n and_o jerusalem_n till_o his_o day_n from_o the_o very_a apostle_n time_n saint_n augustin_n may_v see_v throne_n stand_v in_o both_o place_n but_o when_o they_o be_v first_o raise_v or_o by_o who_o or_o for_o who_o or_o for_o what_o reason_n he_o can_v not_o understand_v but_o by_o relation_n and_o what_o that_o relation_n may_v be_v he_o have_v not_o express_v neither_o do_v i_o think_v that_o his_o main_a hope_n of_o salvation_n be_v chain_v to_o that_o relation_n neither_o can_v i_o chain_v i_o to_o the_o same_o for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o so_o far_o from_o make_v throne_n or_o altar_n my_o soul_n anchorage_n that_o i_o believe_v neither_o to_o be_v apostolical_a and_o till_o the_o doctor_n can_v better_o convince_v i_o of_o they_o i_o can_v wish_v he_o will_v call_v in_o his_o anathema_n or_o rather_o epigram_n against_o such_o atheist_n as_o i_o be_o but_o say_v doctor_n pocklington_n further_o no_o altar_n no_o priest_n no_o priest_n no_o rubric_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o say_v in_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o relation_n between_o priest_n and_o altar_n be_v not_o inseparable_a as_o have_v be_v prove_v second_o that_o the_o word_n priest_n derive_v from_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o imply_v not_o real_a sacrifice_n three_o if_o we_o do_v reject_v the_o word_n priest_n utter_o as_o less_o proper_a than_o minister_n and_o less_o fit_a to_o be_v use_v as_o sir_n francis_n bacon_n maintain_v and_o as_o we_o do_v not_o affect_v to_o use_v it_o yet_o we_o reject_v not_o the_o thing_n with_o the_o name_n the_o same_o ministry_n the_o same_o sacred_a order_n we_o retain_v and_o honour_n and_o hold_v it_o as_o revenerd_a as_o either_o jew_n or_o papist_n do_v their_o sacrifice_a priesthood_n but_o what_o consequence_n be_v this_o no_o priest_n no_o ordination_n no_o ordination_n no_o rubric_n no_o rubric_n no_o law_n he_o which_o oppose_v the_o word_n priest_n only_o do_v not_o oppose_v the_o thing_n and_o he_o which_o oppose_v not_o the_o thing_n oppose_v not_o the_o rubric_n and_o he_o which_o oppose_v not_o the_o rubric_n oppose_v not_o the_o parl._n establish_v it_o it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o we_o oppose_v neither_o the_o thing_n priest_n nor_o the_o word_n except_o only_o in_o its_o popish_a sense_n as_o it_o intimate_v real_a sacrifice_n to_o we_o i_o come_v now_o to_o such_o proof_n as_o clear_a antiquity_n from_o meaning_n of_o real_a proper_a altar_n and_o first_o we_o read_v the_o word_n altar_fw-la sometines_fw-la in_o the_o work_n of_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o be_v no_o proof_n that_o altar_n be_v the_o common_a term_n or_o word_n so_o use_v in_o common_a speech_n of_o that_o there_o be_v no_o proof_n or_o colour_n at_o all_o it_o be_v ordinary_a to_o use_v metaphor_n in_o study_a discourse_n and_o as_o unusual_a to_o use_v they_o in_o our_o ordinary_a language_n that_o the_o word_n table_n be_v first_o in_o common_a use_n at_o the_o beginning_n be_v very_o credible_a that_o it_o be_v now_o whole_o disuse_v among_o papist_n be_v evident_a therefore_o when_o we_o see_v the_o change_n but_o can_v perceive_v the_o certain_a time_n or_o motion_n of_o that_o change_n as_o it_o happen_v in_o the_o shadow_n upon_o the_o sun-dial_n we_o may_v well_o suppose_v that_o the_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n have_v have_v its_o secret_a operation_n upon_o it_o as_o upon_o divers_a other_o thing_n we_o find_v second_o in_o the_o most_o ancient_a time_n that_o it_o be_v a_o common_a objection_n make_v against_o christian_n by_o jew_n pagan_n and_o renegado_n christian_n that_o they_o have_v neither_o church_n altar_n nor_o image_n and_o to_o this_o common_a objection_n we_o find_v that_o the_o great_a apologetic_a and_o most_o learned_a divine_n of_o those_o day_n do_v all_o unanimous_o yield_v that_o they_o have_v no_o material_a proper_a altar_n nor_o no_o other_o but_o metaphorical_a only_o clesus_fw-la object_v to_o origen_n that_o the_o christian_n do_v avoid_v to_o raise_v {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o caecilius_n ask_v octavius_n cur_fw-la nullas_fw-la arras_n habent_fw-la templa_fw-la nulla_fw-la nulla_fw-la nota_fw-la simulacra_fw-la arnobius_n say_v to_o his_o adversary_n nos_fw-la accusatis_fw-la quod_fw-la nec_fw-la templa_fw-la habeamus_fw-la nec_fw-la imagine_fw-la nec_fw-la arras_n and_o julian_n who_o have_v be_v a_o christian_a and_o know_v their_o worship_n well_o enough_o and_o live_v after_o the_o erection_n of_o church_n yet_o say_v to_o cyrill_n offer_v in_o altar_n and_o sacrificare_fw-la cavetis_fw-la it_o be_v strange_a if_o any_o christian_a altar_n than_o be_v that_o neither_o