Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) |
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A56149
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The altar dispute, or, A discovrse concerning the severall innovations of the altar wherein is discussed severall of the chiefe grounds and foundations whereon our altar champions have erected their buildings / by H. P.
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Parker, Henry, 1604-1652.
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1642
(1642)
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Wing P393; ESTC R21276
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49,491
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88
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for_o the_o same_o reason_n whatsoever_o be_v former_o by_o some_o imagine_a we_o know_v that_o the_o east_n be_v name_v so_o from_o the_o rise_n of_o the_o sun_n and_o we_o know_v the_o sun_n have_v neither_o rise_v not_o set_v but_o comparative_a and_o so_o america_n be_v as_o proper_o east_n as_o china_n for_o if_o america_n lie_v west_n to_o we_o yet_o it_o lie_v east_n to_o china_n which_o lie_v east_n to_o we_o the_o doctor_n tell_v as_o not_o certain_o whether_o the_o ancient_n pray_v eastward_o because_o their_o church_n be_v so_o build_v or_o whether_o they_o build_v so_o because_o they_o prayeâ—_n so_o but_o both_o way_n he_o make_v use_n of_o it_o for_o his_o own_o posture_n although_o we_o may_v both_o way_n as_o probable_o thus_o retoâ—â—â—_n to_o the_o contrary_a if_o the_o christian_n pray_v eastward_o only_o because_o their_o church_n be_v so_o build_v than_o they_o hold_v that_o posture_n of_o pray_v in_o itself_o indifferent_a and_o if_o they_o build_v so_o because_o they_o pray_v so_o than_o they_o hold_v the_o posture_n for_o build_v so_o to_o be_v indifferent_a and_o sure_o the_o proof_n be_v very_o weak_a that_o the_o primitive_n do_v put_v any_o virtue_n in_o all_o place_n of_o the_o world_n either_o in_o building_n or_o in_o pray_v eastward_o since_o it_o be_v most_o apparent_a that_o private_a dwelling_n and_o pagan_a temple_n and_o jewish_a synagogue_n be_v at_o first_o convert_v into_o church_n and_o some_o new_a erection_n be_v not_o contrive_v in_o this_o eastern_a posture_n for_o his_o second_o proof_n the_o doctor_n say_v that_o ancient_o according_a to_o bishop_n juell_n the_o choir_n or_o chancel_n be_v draw_v with_o curtain_n and_o this_o will_v be_v very_o unsightly_a he_o say_v if_o the_o table_n shall_v stand_v in_o the_o middle_n 〈◊〉_d far_o from_o the_o wall_n the_o doctor_n here_o make_v no_o difference_n between_o a_o cathedral_n and_o parochial_a church_n for_o in_o parâ—chials_n a_o curtain_n may_v hang_v at_o the_o chancel_n door_n without_o incumbâ—ance_n and_o in_o cathedral_n it_o may_v be_v draw_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o choir_n without_o any_o inconvenience_n though_o the_o table_n stand_v not_o near_o the_o wall_n in_o our_o cathedral_n the_o quire_n be_v now_o so_o spacious_a that_o a_o three_o part_n of_o they_o may_v be_v assign_v to_o the_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o or_o altar_n place_n and_o yet_o all_o the_o congregation_n may_v stand_v in_o the_o other_o division_n nay_o if_o in_o saint_n paul_n london_n the_o altar_n wall_n be_v again_o remove_v as_o it_o be_v in_o ridleys_n time_n the_o altar_n will_v be_v see_v stand_v in_o the_o very_a middle_n of_o the_o choir_n for_o his_o three_o proof_n the_o doctor_n cite_v the_o altar_n in_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n which_o not_o stand_v to_o the_o east_n be_v story_v to_o have_v differ_v in_o posture_n from_o all_o other_o church_n if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o all_o church_n in_o the_o west_n part_n from_o antioch_n nay_o all_o of_o the_o whole_a world_n have_v altar_n stand_v towards_o the_o east_n this_o prove_v not_o that_o they_o touch_v the_o east_n wall_n and_o stand_v side_n way_n the_o doctor_n four_o proof_n be_v from_o the_o division_n in_o church_n for_o first_o occur_v he_o say_v the_o seat_n of_o the_o presbyter_n and_o then_o above_o they_o the_o episcopal_a throne_n and_o above_o all_o the_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o this_o be_v speak_v only_o of_o cathedral_n and_o in_o cathedral_n we_o see_v the_o same_o division_n still_o yet_o see_v withal_o that_o betwixt_o the_o bishop_n throne_n and_o the_o altar_n wall_n there_o be_v a_o great_a distance_n so_o that_o the_o altar_n be_v not_o necessary_o drive_v close_o to_o the_o wall_n the_o doctor_n last_o and_o main_a proof_n be_v from_o the_o custom_n of_o papist_n who_o since_o they_o retain_v the_o old_a fashion_n of_o their_o building_n be_v not_o likely_a to_o innovate_v in_o the_o fashion_n of_o their_o altar_n this_o proof_n be_v no_o stranger_n for_o altar_n posture_n then_o for_o the_o multitude_n of_o pillar-altar_n chappell-altar_n and_o requiem-altar_n and_o for_o a_o thousand_o other_o superstition_n and_o yet_o we_o answer_v more_o over_o that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o easy_a for_o the_o papist_n to_o alter_v in_o the_o fashion_n of_o church_n as_o altar_n and_o therefore_o this_o be_v a_o very_a non-concludent_a argument_n i_o have_v now_o answer_v doctor_n heylin_n and_o i_o may_v proceed_v to_o confute_v he_o also_o but_o that_o be_v do_v to_o my_o hand_n by_o a_o lin_n minister_n in_o a_o book_n call_v the_o holy_a table_n name_n and_o thing_n and_o hither_o i_o shall_v refer_v all_o that_o be_v unsatisfy_v in_o this_o point_n i_o shall_v note_v only_o of_o that_o learned_a author_n that_o he_o put_v his_o example_n of_o the_o chief_a metropoly_n of_o europe_n and_o asia_n and_o in_o rome_n itself_o his_o first_o instance_n be_v in_o the_o catacombe_n the_o most_o ancient_a and_o reverent_a church_n there_o wherein_o saint_n paul_n and_o peter_n first_o be_v bury_v and_o where_o none_o may_v officiate_v but_o the_o pope_n yet_o even_o this_o church_n be_v not_o canonical_a in_o this_o eastern_a altar_n posture_n his_o next_o instance_n be_v in_o saint_n peter_n there_o the_o holy_a mother_n church_n of_o the_o world_n for_o 〈◊〉_d there_o that_o most_o reverent_a altar_n which_o stand_v over_o the_o translate_v bâ—nes_o of_o peter_n and_o 〈◊〉_d stand_v some_o distance_n from_o the_o wall_n many_o other_o instance_n be_v give_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v repeat_v and_o yet_o of_o all_o instance_n none_o can_v be_v more_o convince_a theâ—_z those_o of_o his_o four_o table_n so_o precious_a and_o rich_o adorn_v and_o inscribe_v round_o about_o which_o be_v dedicate_v at_o constantinople_n rome_n and_o s._n dennis_n if_o altar_n be_v only_o in_o use_n why_o be_v such_o incredible_a cost_n powâ—ed_v out_o upon_o table_n if_o the_o altar_n posture_n be_v only_o in_o use_n why_o be_v those_o table_n round_o about_o on_o 〈◊〉_d side_n inscribe_v when_o the_o inscription_n have_v be_v 〈◊〉_d in_o part_n obliterate_v i_o come_v now_o to_o this_o late_a age_n and_o to_o our_o own_o nation_n in_o the_o time_n of_o edwâ—â—â—_n we_o find_v that_o altar_n be_v take_v down_o that_o hooker_n preach_v against_o they_o that_o ridley_n take_v away_o the_o altar_n wall_n in_o paul_n to_o destroy_v the_o posture_n of_o they_o that_o bucer_n complain_v in_o câ—orâ—_n tantum_fw-la sacra_fw-la representari_fw-la and_o when_o at_o first_o thing_n be_v not_o full_o settle_v when_o the_o old_a posture_n be_v reject_v and_o not_o any_o new_a one_o instead_o thereof_o constant_o 〈…〉_z we_o find_v huggaid_n deride_v that_o incertainty_n and_o we_o findâ—_z king_n edward_n second_o liturgy_n end_v that_o doubt_n by_o appoint_v the_o north_n side_n of_o the_o table_n for_o the_o place_n whereat_o to_o officiate_v in_o the_o time_n of_o queen_n eliz._n we_o find_v a_o injunction_n to_o place_v the_o table_n where_o the_o altar_n stand_v save_v when_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v and_o other_o thing_n refer_v to_o the_o appointment_n of_o visitor_n and_o in_o the_o three_o of_o queen_n eliz_n the_o visitor_n set_v forth_o their_o order_n that_o the_o step_n in_o the_o chancel_n shall_v be_v decent_o 〈◊〉_d and_o that_o there_o the_o communion_n table_n shall_v stand_v out_o of_o the_o time_n of_o receive_v and_o we_o know_v no_o reason_n wâ—y_v they_o which_o endure_v not_o the_o form_n of_o a_o altar_n shall_v endure_v the_o posture_n or_o why_o they_o which_o like_v not_o that_o posture_n in_o time_n of_o receive_v shall_v like_v it_o at_o other_o time_n or_o why_o they_o shall_v call_v that_o the_o north_n side_n which_o our_o doctor_n now_o will_v needs_o understand_v the_o north_n end_n of_o the_o table_n last_o 〈◊〉_d sanctorum_fw-la be_v interpres_fw-la praeoeptorum_fw-la we_o must_v believe_v that_o the_o altar_n posture_n have_v not_o be_v so_o general_o use_v in_o all_o parochial_n in_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n ever_o since_o the_o reformation_n and_o no_o care_n thereof_o take_v by_o authority_n if_o it_o have_v be_v irregular_a but_o the_o doctor_n say_v that_o the_o altar_n posture_n be_v retain_v in_o the_o king_n chapel_n and_o in_o cathedral_n and_o that_o they_o ought_v to_o give_v law_n and_o not_o to_o receive_v it_o from_o parochial_n for_o answer_v we_o say_v that_o chapel_n and_o cathedral_n have_v their_o own_o peculiar_a statute_n and_o may_v differ_v sometime_o from_o themselves_o therein_o and_o from_o parochial_n but_o parochial_n be_v all_o govern_v by_o the_o public_a canon_n beside_o we_o see_v there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n in_o the_o very_a fabric_n between_o cathedral_n chapel_n and_o parochial_n and_o therefore_o in_o parochial_n
heathen_n nor_o apostate_n christian_n shall_v know_v thereof_o and_o yet_o the_o more_o sâ—â—ange_a that_o this_o be_v object_v against_o christian_n and_o not_o be_v true_a that_o christian_n will_v not_o justify_v themselves_o against_o so_o manifest_a a_o untruth_n origen_n answer_v that_o the_o christian_n altar_n be_v his_o understanding_n and_o that_o prayer_n be_v his_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o octavius_n answer_v that_o the_o church_n sacrifice_n be_v bone_fw-la animus_fw-la sincera_fw-la mens_fw-la and_o pura_fw-la conscientia_fw-la arnobius_n confess_v sacrifice_n but_o not_o corporeal_a agree_v with_o the_o former_a that_o they_o be_v mental_a only_o and_o cyrill_n give_v not_o a_o deny_v all_o to_o julian_n be_v it_o not_o to_o be_v wonder_v at_o that_o so_o many_o man_n of_o several_a place_n and_o time_n shall_v all_o so_o far_o prevaricate_v and_o make_v such_o fond_a answer_n if_o they_o can_v have_v advantage_v their_o own_o cause_n or_o satisfy_v their_o adversary_n by_o affirm_v proper_a altar_n and_o such_o real_a sacrifice_n as_o our_o doctor_n now_o affirm_v how_o easy_a have_v it_o be_v and_o how_o true_a and_o how_o necessary_a be_v it_o to_o have_v make_v this_o direct_a answer_n persecution_n suffer_v not_o christian_n to_o build_v such_o sumptuous_a church_n and_o altar_n as_o you_o do_v but_o we_o have_v altar_n as_o proper_a and_o will_v build_v temple_n as_o stately_a as_o you_o do_v if_o we_o have_v power_n and_o liberty_n we_o deny_v not_o all_o sacrifice_n as_o you_o erroneous_o object_n we_o deny_v not_o true_a visible_a external_a sacrifice_n we_o deny_v only_o jewish_a bloody_a and_o mere_o corporeal_a sacrifice_n so_o that_o the_o force_n of_o that_o objection_n be_v against_o our_o hard_a condition_n not_o against_o our_o worship_n or_o religion_n but_o mr._n mede_n say_v that_o these_o apologetical_a divine_n deny_v altar_n under_o the_o heathen_a name_n {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o not_o deny_v the_o church_n word_n {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o whereby_o he_o account_v they_o mere_a cheater_n and_o trifler_n not_o regard_v who_o they_o treat_v withal_o or_o the_o current_a sense_n of_o the_o word_n according_a to_o common_a acception_n but_o desire_v to_o obscure_a truth_n and_o deinde_fw-la their_o opponent_n this_o be_v to_o be_v slight_v as_o a_o toy_n pocklington_n take_v pain_n to_o prove_v church_n out_o of_o the_o scripture_n and_o antiquity_n and_o say_v that_o those_o church_n have_v altar_n to_o which_o none_o come_v without_o oblation_n and_o that_o with_o those_o oblation_n captive_n widow_n orphan_n etc._n etc._n be_v relieve_v he_o also_o insist_v upon_o the_o great_a name_n of_o throne_n and_o syndo_n but_o his_o proof_n be_v most_o of_o they_o indefinite_a both_o to_o time_n place_n and_o thing_n we_o say_v that_o before_o constantine_n few_o church_n be_v especial_o so_o formal_o build_v with_o throne_n and_o other_o division_n as_o he_o seem_v to_o intimate_v and_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o vast_a surface_n of_o the_o earth_n scarce_o visible_a or_o considerable_a especial_o to_o several_a man_n live_v in_o several_a place_n and_o at_o several_a time_n such_o as_o the_o apologetick_n be_v and_o yet_o the_o word_n church_n be_v take_v sometime_o for_o any_o place_n where_o god_n be_v public_o worship_v and_o sometime_o for_o the_o congregation_n itself_o of_o the_o faithful_a name_v by_o such_o a_o town_n city_n or_o country_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n and_o no_o other_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v say_v to_o maintain_v in_o it_o 1._o bishop_n 46._o priest_n 7._o deacon_n 7._o subdeacon_n 42._o acolythite_n exorcist_n reader_n porter_n 52._o widow_n 1500._o poor_a it_o be_v not_o mean_v that_o any_o local_a material_a church_n in_o rome_n during_o the_o time_n of_o persecution_n be_v so_o rich_a capacious_a or_o stately_a for_o this_o will_v evince_v more_o than_o a_o mere_a toleration_n of_o christianity_n and_o yet_o we_o read_v not_o of_o so_o much_o hospinian_n for_o the_o â—â—ace_n betwixt_o christ_n and_o constantine_n more_o reasonable_o collect_v that_o those_o altar_n which_o be_v then_o be_v neither_o fix_v nor_o of_o stone_n which_o sufficient_o clear_v that_o they_o be_v wooden_a unfixed_a table_n not_o stone_n and_o fix_a altar_n for_o if_o christian_n during_o heathenism_n have_v liberty_n to_o build_v and_o meet_v in_o such_o formal_a church_n and_o have_v such_o synod_n throne_n library_n school_n gazophylacy_n as_o the_o doctor_n labour_v to_o prove_v they_o can_v not_o want_v power_n or_o opportunity_n to_o adorn_v or_o enrich_v altar_n or_o to_o fix_v they_o and_o fashion_v they_o as_o they_o please_v and_o thus_o the_o age_n before_o constantine_n may_v be_v defective_a in_o discipline_n by_o reason_n of_o persecution_n and_o we_o may_v suspect_v the_o age_n after_o for_o their_o superstition_n constantine_n be_v too_o pompous_a in_o discipline_n and_o soon_o incline_v to_o arianism_n and_o long_o defer_v his_o own_o baptism_n in_o his_o time_n the_o foundation_n of_o popish_a usurpation_n begin_v to_o be_v lay_v then_o it_o be_v say_v hodie_fw-la venenum_fw-la infusum_fw-la est_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la than_o it_o be_v say_v that_o there_o be_v as_o many_o religion_n as_o opinion_n and_o opinion_n as_o man_n i_o ascribe_v not_o to_o antiquity_n such_o infallibility_n as_o some_o do_v and_o yet_o many_o thing_n may_v fit_v those_o time_n which_o fit_v not_o we_o and_o many_o thing_n may_v be_v misreport_v misunderstand_v and_o mistake_v by_o we_o in_o these_o time_n which_o perhaps_o be_v not_o in_o such_o repute_n of_o old_a as_o we_o now_o believe_v our_o three_o reason_n against_o material_a and_o proper_a altar_n be_v ground_v upon_o the_o father_n eusebius_n often_o call_v that_o of_o christian_n a_o unbloody_a and_o reasonable_a sacrifice_n the_o word_n unbloody_a be_v use_v in_o opposition_n to_o corporeal_a and_o sensitive_a thing_n the_o word_n reasonable_a to_o real_a or_o vegetative_a thing_n for_o if_o we_o conceive_v that_o reasonable_a and_o unbloody_a distinguish_v from_o jewish_a sacrifice_n we_o must_v understand_v notional_a or_o mental_a sacrifice_n because_o the_o jewish_a be_v not_o all_o bloody_a the_o same_o eusebius_n also_o say_v that_o we_o be_v appoint_v to_o offer_v daily_o to_o god_n the_o commemoration_n of_o christ_n sacrifice_n {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o a_o king_n deputy_n be_v entertain_v as_o a_o king_n and_o its_o a_o honour_n to_o he_o but_o king_n be_v not_o entertain_v as_o deputy_n that_o be_v derogatory_a so_o if_o this_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n it_o be_v a_o undervalue_n lessen_v word_n to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o mere_a commemoration_n or_o instead_o of_o a_o sacrifice_n in_o another_o place_n also_o he_o call_v it_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o that_o which_o be_v the_o representation_n of_o a_o proper_a sacrifice_n be_v not_o itself_o a_o proper_a sacrifice_n these_o thing_n differ_v in_o predicament_n and_o to_o put_v all_o out_o of_o doubt_n chrysostome_n by_o way_n of_o correction_n for_o more_o propriety_n sake_n have_v call_v it_o a_o sacrifice_n add_v this_o word_n {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o to_o show_v that_o it_o be_v in_o propriety_n but_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o {non-roman}_o it_o may_v be_v call_v a_o sacrifice_n figurative_o but_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v rather_o the_o remembrance_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n our_o four_o reason_n be_v take_v from_o the_o act_n of_o our_o ancestor_n in_o the_o reformation_n who_o do_v express_v great_a dislike_n of_o altar_n and_o do_v remove_v and_o abollsh_a the_o same_o as_o popish_a innovation_n we_o will_v therefore_o against_o doctor_n heylin_n make_v these_o two_o thing_n clear_a first_o that_o the_o reformer_n be_v very_o adverse_a to_o altar_n second_o that_o they_o be_v so_o upon_o just_a ground_n constantine_n time_n though_o not_o so_o pure_a as_o the_o former_a yet_o be_v far_o more_o pure_a than_o those_o which_o succeed_v for_o antichrist_n entrance_n be_v obscure_a he_o seem_v like_v melchisedeck_n without_o pedigree_n as_o to_o some_o of_o his_o mystery_n of_o tyranny_n he_o begin_v to_o work_v present_o after_o the_o the_o infancy_n of_o the_o church_n but_o as_o to_o his_o solemn_a inthronization_n at_o rome_n he_o be_v much_o young_a than_o constantine_n tantae_fw-la mo'is_fw-la erat_fw-la romanam_fw-la condere_fw-la gentem_fw-la it_o appear_v by_o saint_n ambrose_n his_o insult_n over_o theodosius_n that_o the_o hierarchy_n be_v advance_v in_o good_a time_n and_o that_o by_o the_o blind_a zeal_n of_o some_o man_n otherwise_o very_o good_a altar_n have_v get_v great_a adoration_n before_o st._n ambrose_n but_o that_o adoration_n be_v not_o whole_o abuse_v till_o the_o instalment_n of_o antichrist_n and_o than_o the_o sacrament_n be_v soon_o turn_v into_o a_o present_a propitiatory_a sacrifice_n and_o