Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	altar_n	prayer_n	throne_n	1,329	5	9.2496	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33770	Theophilus and Philodoxus, or, Several conferences between two friends the one a true son of the Church of England, the other faln off to the Church of Rome, concerning 1. praier in an unknown tongue, 2. the half communion, 3. the worshipping of images, 4. the invocation of saints / by Gilbert Coles.	Coles, Gilbert, 1617-1676.	1674 (1674)	Wing C5085; ESTC R27900	233,018	224

hold That the Souls of the Faithful departed before Christs Resurrection did not enter into Heaven neither see the Face of God nor know the State of things here above them and therefore it was not usual in the Church to call upon them and say Holy Abraham pray for us Your Doctors hold a Bell. ib. c. 19. Notandum ante adventum Christi qui moriebantur non intrabant in Coelum non Deum videbant nec ordinarie poterant cognese preces sapplicantium That the Spirits of the Patriarchs and Prophets and People of God were shut up in Limbo Patrum as they call it in a subterraneous place the uppermost verge of Hell beneath us without pain and without joy in the Vision of God waiting for their redemtion out of that Prison by the coming of Christ who descended into Hell to set them at liberty and to conduct them triumphantly into Heaven When we urge that Text Isa 63. ver 16. Doubtless thou art our Father tho Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledgeth us not to shew how the Saints departed know not the Affairs and Transactions here below You answer So it was before Christs Ascension the Saints departed were not in Heaven until Christ opened the Kingdom to them but they were shut up from the Vision of God and from all knowledge of the concerns of this World and yet contrary to this their own Hypothesis you see how they give Instances of Moses and Samuel and Onias and Jeremiah praying for their People the Jews and sollicitous for them in their distress Phil. You may therefore observe the limitation of Bellarmine Non poterant ordinarie preces cognoscere c. In that state they understood not ordinarily the Affairs upon Earth nor heard the Prayers of the People but God might reveal them and so excite them to pray for the People upon which account some of our Doctors hold a Azorius Instit. Moral lib. 9. c. 9. Medina de Orat. Quaest 4. That Prayers might be made to the Fathers in Lymbo yea even to the Souls in Purgatory because they are in a state of Grace and Charity and by the gift of God or by the Ministery of Angels they may hear our Praiers Theoph. Upon the same ground we may daily implore the Assistance and Prayers of our Friends that are absent living at a great distance from us for God may reveal our Desires and Petitions to them but alas these are weak props and suppositions to uphold a feeble cause and hitherto your Learned Cardinal hath not bin demonstrative in the point Phil. Before we conclude I do not doubt but you shall change your note In the New Testament we read Rev. 5. 8. How the 24 Elders fall down before the Lamb having golden Viols full of Odors which are the Praiers of the Saints Theoph. What Argument can Bellarmin or you frame out of this Text I understand not his design Phil. Bellarmin shews how Interpreters understand by the Praiers of the Saints Intercessions made by the Saints in Heaven for the confirmation and support of their weak Brethren upon Earth Theoph. It seems then even the Saints in Glory make use of Mediators of the four Beasts and the twenty four Elders to present their Prayers to the Lamb. The more general Interpretation of that place is That these Odors filling the golden Vials are the Praiers of the Faithful upon Earth which are represented in the Psalm To ascend like the Incense Psal 141. ver 2. Phil. This gives as full testimony to our purpose as the other for thereby it appears the Praiers of the Saints on Earth are presented unto God and to the Lamb by the Saints and Angels in Heaven And to this effect we read Rev. 8. ver 3 4. how an Angel came and stood at the Altar having a golden Censer and there was given unto him much Incense that he should offer it with the Praiers of all Saints upon the golden Altar which was before the Throne And the smoke of the Incense which came with the Praiers of the Saints ascended up before God out of the Angels hand Now this Incense offered up with the Praiers of the Saints on Earth we may suppose are the Merits and Intercession of the Saints in Glory Theoph. And we may suppose they are the Merits and Intercession of Christ whom Primasius understands by the Angel in this place we know it is said expresly Heb. 9. 24. That Christ is entred into the Holiest of all into Heaven it self to appear in the presence of God for us and that by him we offer up to God continually our Sacrifices of Praise Heb. 13. 15. and without all peradventure he is most properly said to add Incense and sweet Odours to our Praiers and Praises because for his sake only they are acceptable to the Father However I cannot but observe what a leap your Cardinal hath taken over all the New Testament to produce his first and cheifest Arguments out of the Revelations of S t John for the Saints hearing and presenting our Prayers unto God purposely to involve himself and others in mysteries and visions which can admit no clear Interpretation neither become useful to lay the Foundation of a Doctrine which takes up the greatest part of the peoples devotions in the Church viz. of the Invocation of Saints In a like case S t Augustine cried out to the Donatists a A Ferte aliquid quod non egeat Interpret Bring forth such proofs as want no Interpretation Suppose I should undertake to prove That the Souls of the just departed are not in Heaven neither do enjoy a perfect state in bliss Rev. 6. vers 9. c. because when the fift seal was opened S t John saw under the Altar the Souls of the Martyrs of them that were slain for the word of God and for the Testimony which they held and they cried with a loud voice saying How long O Lord Holy and true dost thou not judg and avenge our blood upon them that dwell on the earth and white robes were given unto every one of them that they should rest yet for a little season until their fellow servants and their Brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled Suppose I should from the same Text urge that the Martyrs do expressly pray for Divine vengeance upon their enemies but no mention is made of any intercession for their Freinds you would not well approve Arguments drawn from such mysterious visions and Revelations and therefore do not your self make use of them b Tom. 30. in Epistolis ad Paulinum ad Marcellam S t Jerom tells us That the book of the Revelations hath as many mysteries as words and that the whole is to be understood in a spiritual sense and not literal Phil. These things were certainly written for our Instruction and Bellarmine very well argues That if the Saints in Heaven and Martyrs do pray for jugdment upon their

Images And I do not find in the second Council of Nice the term of Dulia opposite to Latria but Salutation and Adoration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 However at present we dispute not the terms but desire to know the importance of the known distinction That God only is worship'd with the worship call'd Latria and the Saints with the worship call'd Dulia In the first place therefore What is Latria a Lib. 9. Instit Moralium c. 5. Cultus soli Deo c. Azorius a Jesuit and Casuist tells us It is Service or Worship due to God alone whereby we subject our selves to him as to the supreme Lord putting our trust and confidence in him In the second place What is Dulia b Veneratio quae civibus Coeli tribuitur That Veneration saith he which is given unto the Citizens of Heaven This sheweth to whom it is given but why doth he not tell us what that Worship is and wherein it differeth from Latria And withal seeing Dulia signifieth servitude in the judgment of c Tom. 1. l. de vera Relig. c. 55. Honoramus eos charitate non servitate Augustin we ought not to give it to the Saints in Heaven We honor them saith he with love and not with servitude No distinct peculiar Service or Worship is due to the Saints in Glory for herein lies the difference between the Fathers and the School-men These appropriate a Service and Worship to the Saints in Heaven and call it Dulia to the Blessed Virgin and call it Hyperdulia But Augustin makes no difference between the Service and Worship due to the Saints in Heaven and the Saints on Earth d Lib. 20. Contra Faust. Manich. c. 21. Colimus Martyres eo cultu delect c. We honor Martyrs with that worship of love and friendship wherewith we honor holy Men of God in this life and we worship God alone with Latria When the Manichees objected That Christians made Idols of their Martyrs honoring their Tombs and erecting Altars before them e Quos etiam votis similibus colitis and making Vows unto them f Altaria erigimus Deo Martyrum quod offertur Deo offertur c. Augustin answers We erect the Altars to the God of those Martyrs and the Oblations are given to God who crowned the Martyrs A Christian with Religious Solemnity celebrates the memories of Martyrs to excite Imitation and that he may share in their merits and be assisted by their Praiers Phil. This passage of S t Augustin shews a Religious Solemnity to be kept in honor of the Saints departed and that the living may share in their Merits and be assisted by their Praiers these are Truths which you will not freely acknowledg Theoph. We do acknowledg them for by a Religious Solemnity we understand the Festivals which the Holy Church observes in commemoration of the Saints and Martyrs By the society of their Merits we understand that by imitation of the Saints we have a Fellowship in their Labors and in their Crowns And for the last Clause the assistance of their Prayers we doubt not but that the Saints in Heaven do pray for the Church of God and his Servants here on Earth but as for any knowledge of particulars when we come to that Point I can shew how S t Augustin doubts a Lib. de cura pro Mort. c. 15. Fatendum nescire quidem mortuos quid hic agatur Whether the Blessed Saints and Martyrs do hear the Prayers which are offered up at their Shrines nay he confesseth that they do not know what is done here below and that when by the power of God and Ministry of Angels Miracles were done at their Shrines themselves might not know it no not when they did appear to some upon Earth as Saul saw in a Vision one Ananias coming to him and putting his hands upon him that he might receive his sight but Ananias himself knew nothing of that appearance to Saul until the Lord declared it to him Acts 9 12 God might please to act great things at the Monuments of Martyrs b Cap. 17. Illis in summa quiete positis whil'st themselves were in perfect rest as he speaks But this by the way it belongs to another Controversie in due time to be assum'd However you have heard Augustin after all that he had said concluding We honor Martyrs with that worship of Love and Friendship wherewith we honor Holy Men of God in this Life and if you will require no more Veneration to be given to them we will grant it But then you must remember That Paul when living did forbid Cornelius to worship him and so did the Angel prohibit the Apostle John and so would all the glorious Saints in Heaven prohibit your Adoration before their Images if they could communicate in speech or any other way with you Religious Worship we deny to the Saints and their Images civil honor and respect we give Phil. Because the Saints and Angels of God are like him in their natural Powers and Qualities moral and civil honor is due to them for honor is the acknowledgment of some Excellency But then in regard unto their supernatural Gifts and Spiritual and Religious Qualities we must allow them Religious and Spiritual Honor and Veneration Theoph. c De vera Relig. c. 55. Vni Deo religamus animas nostras unde Religio dicta creditur S t Augustin observes how the very name of Religion strictly binds us to God and therefore all Religious Acts and Services are due only to him Had not Peter and Paul and the other Saints in bliss while they were living in the Flesh supernatural Gifts and Excellencies and would you have worship'd them with Religious Worship Cornelius attemted it and was forbidden Phil. There is a great disproportion between the Saints in Glory and the Saints militant here on Earth Theoph. In regard of their Happiness and Fruition they are excellent beyond compare but this is their reward the Honor we give them is in commemoration of their Works and Excellencies in this Life for our example and imitation And withal Cornelius worshipping Peter in the Flesh was sure Peter was sensible of that Honor then given and you know the Apostle refus'd it but if you worship him now being in Heaven you may rationally doubt as S t Augustin did of the Saints in geneneral whether he is sensible of that Honor more then his Image before which you fall down and worship Phil. However God accepts the Honor done to his Saints as to himself Theoph. Yes when done according to his rule But where hath God given any command or direction to worship them you bring no proofs of your Practice out of Holy Scripture we urge many Texts against it Your Arguments run altogether upon Analogy and Proportion that much more honor is due to the Saints now in Heaven then when they liv'd in the Flesh because they are much more excellent

Gods Word But leaving the Cardinals Excuses and Guesses to himself Aquinas and the rest give their own Reasons for their Opinions the Church hath taught us to put our hope in the Cross and therefore we worship it with Divine Worship the honor of his Image tends to Christ The thing represented is in the Image as in a Looking-glass and therefore we adore it Nay Azorius takes notice of the Nicene determination and shews how in one sense it is true in another not take the Image of Christ materially as a Consecrated thing so it is not worship'd with Divine Worship but formally as an Image representing Christ so Divine Worship is given to it Now such allowed Distinctions as these and Doctrines have prevail'd upon the unwary People to give the same worship to the Image and the Exemplar nay to give Religious Worship to all Images In the Schools they tell us of divers kinds of Worship whereas in their Churches there is no sensible difference what Worship the People give to God the same they give to the Saints they Pray they fall down and Worship And to our purpose a In Psalm 113. Quis adorat vel orat intuens simulachrum qui non sic afficitur ut ab eo se exaudiri putet ab eo sibi praestari quod desiderat speret Augustin proposeth a serious Question Who Praies or Adores beholding an Image and is not so affected that he believes the Image bears him and hopes to receive from it that which he desires and praies for Phil. S t Augustin speaks of the Heathen and their Idols Theoph. And it is very applicable unto your deluded People and their Images for let us no longer hover in the Clouds and in the general Notion of a Divine Worship call'd Latria due only to God and of an inferior Worship call'd Dulia given unto the Saints in Heaven and to their Images You know the saying Dolus in universalibus Much deceit usually lurks in general terms We will descend therefore to some particulars what are precisely the Acts of Divine Worship a Azorius tells us To put our trust and confidence in him is one special act of Latria the peculiar Worship due to God And yet Aquinas hath shew'd how your Church teacheth us to put our only hope in the Cross Ave Crux spes Vnica Phil. This we must conceive to be a Prosopopoea or Speech made to Christ upon the Cross in the day of his Passion Theoph. The common People doubtless understands your Figure of Prosopopoea singularly well And why doth your Church choose to speak to the Cross after that manner and not rather to Christ upon the Cross And how comes it to pass that Aquinas understood not this Figure but supposeth it to be spoken to the Cross directly and so frames his proof of Divine Worship due to the Cross because we put our trust in it Again for Churches and Temples built and dedicated to the Saints b Tom. 6. lib. 10. contra Maximinum Nonne si templum alicui Sancto Angelo excellentiss de ligno lapide faceremus Anathematizeremur à veritate Ecclesia Dei quonium Creat exhiberemus eam servitutem quae soli Deo debetur Augustin saith expresly If we should make a Temple to any Holy and most excellent Angel either of Wood or Stone Should we not be separated and accursed from the Truth and from the Church of God because we exhibit to a Creature that service which is due only to God c Hoc nunc fit quibuslibet Divis. And Erasmus his Marginal Note upon this Passage of Augustin is This now is every where done unto the Saints d Lib. 1. De vera Rel. c. 55. Honoramus cos charitate non servitute nec iis templa construimus Again Augustin in another place speaking of the Saints saith We honor them with love not with service neither do we build Temples to them e Horae Virg. Mariae secundum usum sacrum Sancti Dei in quorum honore commemoratione haec Sancta est dedicata Ecclesia haec altaria consecrata c. So at the entrance into the Church Men are taught to direct their Praiers unto the Saints to whom the Churches are dedicated saying O ye Saints of God in the honor and remembrance of whom this Church is dedicated and this Altar consecrated c. Now the Temple is call'd The House of Prayer and the House of God because to him only who heareth Praier we sheuld send up our Supplications Again Altars as well as Images are frequently erected unto Saints and yet Saint Augustin saith An Altar implies a Deity the Altar shews they take the Statue for a God and the Altars of the Blessed Virgin and of the Saints are common upon which their Votaries offer Gold and Jewels and Pearl and embroidered Garments c. Phil. Bellarmin shews how the Altars are erected and Churches f Sermone 6. de Verb. Domini secundum Matth. Quod pro Numine accip illam siatuam Altare testatur dedicated to God and so the Sacrifice of the Eucharist and of Praier and Praises are offer'd up to God in honor to the Saints and they are call'd upon in the public Prayers of the Church c. Theoph. a Bell. Tom. 2. lib. de Beat. Sanctorum c. 7. Invocantur Sancti in publicis Ecclesiae precibus c. Bellarmin acknowledgeth enough to condemn the practice of your Church in ascribing more honor to the Saints then the Holy Scriptures allow them Christ saith Do this in remembrance of me And Bellarmin saith The Sacrifice of the Eucharist is offered to God in remembrance and honor of the Saints And withal you should do well to consider That if these Religious Acts are perform'd to God in honor of the Saints they are terminated in them as the finis ultimus the chief end As when you say The honor and worship of the Image redounds to the honor of him whom it represents and the honor done to the Servant redounds unto the Master so the several acts of worship perform'd to God in honor of the Saints redound more to their glory then to the glory of God they are the chief end and his service but subordinate unto their honor And so you run in a Circle and intangle your selves in a Labyrinth to maintain a gross and palpable Error of giving a Religious Worship to the Saints and to their Images calling the Cross Our only hope the Images of the Saints Pledges of our Salvation lighting Tapers and burning Incense to them and such like and after all you wash your hands of Idolatry and tell the World That ye give inferior petty honor to the Saints and their Images and to the Cross even such as to sacred Utensils of the Church or to the Holy Book of Scriptures or to the Chair of State in the Kings Palace or to the Kings Image or to the name of Jesus or to

that stand raise them that fall Correct our Manners Actions and Life and guide us in the way of peace In their Hymne for that day they declare Wonders All things obey and veild to Thomas Plague Diseases Death and Divels Fire Water Earth and Seas Thomas hath fil'd the World with glory The world to Thomas yields obeysance Thomas shines with new Miracles He restores the Members to the Gelt He adornes the Blind with sight Cleanseth the Lepers and their spots And free 's the dead from hands of death Thomae cedunt parent omna Pestes morbi mors daemonia Ignis Aer Tellus Maria Thomas mundum replevit gloriâ Thomae Mundus prestat Obsequia Novis sulget Thomas Miraculis Membr is donat Castratos masculis Ornat uisu privatos oculis Mundat Leprae conspersos maculis Solvis Mortis ligatos vinculis Opem nobis O Thoma po●rige Rege stantes c. There is a farther account how a Country Man going to visit the Martyrs Tomb was just led into the River by a Waggon on the Bridge And rising and sinking five times he was at last cast upon the Shore safe For having call'd upon the Martyr for his aid and that he would not suffer his 〈◊〉 Pilgrim to perish a grave Bishop a●pear'd upholding and conducting him to land This is the Legend of S t Thomas of Becket which your Church hath adopted into the Service and Office for the Feast And I have bin the more particular that you may observe well the gross Fables and Absurdities therein that your Church should impose such Stories of Miracles upon the credulous People And is it possible you should be reduc'd to such a low esteem of the pretious Blood of Christ that you must Petition our Blessed Savior to bring you to Heaven by the Blood of his Martyr Thomas And for a Conclusion I pray seriously consider this pretended Martyr He died in the defence of the Popes Usurpations among us and the Pope hath requited him with a Saintship whereas he had great success to go to Heaven so immediatly with such Qualifications of a turbulent and haughty Spirit And this us●ers in another grievance and just Exception we take against your Invocation of Saints because you pray to some Saints of whom you have no assurance that they are in Heaven nay of whom you cannot prove that ever they were in being what think you of the Beggars Saint S t Lazarus a Part. 3. Tom. 4. Tract 2. Salmeron assures us That he is every where esteemed a Saint and Protector of the poor Canoniz'd by the Church b Baronius Tom. 1. Anno 33. N. 44. Multis locis in memoriam Lazari c. worship'd with Altars and Images and Praiers made unto him And I have read an Argument some of your Doctors have urg'd to prove it an History of Dives and Lazarus in the Gospel and not a Parable because Lazarus is a Canoniz'd Saint and therefore doubtless such a Person there was of whom our Savior in the Gospel gives an Historical account But I have shewed above from the judgment of divers Fathers that it is a Parable Theophilact calls him fool who thinks otherwise and that by Dives and Lazarus only were represented the Rich and Poor by a Fiction of Persons suited to a Parable and so your Jesuit Maldonate affirms Now for your Church to make a real Saint of this Parabolical Representation to whom you make your Addresses in Praier somthing resembles your other kind of Devotion Praying unto or worshipping the Image instead of the Saint Your Church might as well have made the Prodigal Son returning a Saint So for S t George you cannot make any Historical Demonstration that such a Holy Person and Martyr there was George of Cap●adox was a fierce Arrian mightily opposing Athanasius but he was slain for being a Christian b 〈…〉 an ●eathen Prince and so by his Heretical Faction esteemed a Martyr whom they represented for a great Champion and Captain under Christ fighting against the great Magician of Alexandria as they impiously stiled Holy Athanasius otherwise we rather account Saint George as he is constantly represented in his Image flaying a Dragon in rescue of a Virgin to be an Emblem of our Blessed Savior overcoming the Red Dragon our great Enemy the Devil and rescuing his Church as a chast Virgin from his temtations and force a Martyrol Rom. Apr. 23. Symboli potius quam Historiae alicujus c. Baronius acknowledgeth the Picture of S t George on Horse-back armed cap-a-pe and flaying a Dragon to be a Symbolical Image rather then a true History And that Jacobus de Voragine He that made the Golden Legend made it an History An Emblem saith b Hyperius de 〈◊〉 Stud. Theol. l. 3. c. 7. Hyperius of Christian Magistrates Who defend the Church of Christ as a pure Virgin from the snare of the Devil and his accursed Instruments interposing their power against the pernicious attemts of Heretics and so by the Blessing of God S t George shall be the Emblem of our most Noble Order of the Garter even unto the end of the World What shall I say of the Gyant S t Christopher from the Etymology of whose name you have deriv'd a Fable That being of a vast height at least 12 Cubits in length he carried our Blessed Savior over a deep and dangerous River guiding himself by a Staff like a Weavers beam c Hyperius citate Villavincent us makes him an Emblem of a Preacher of the Gospel who holding forth Christ in his word visible unto the People is encompass'd with Waves and Tempests and Waters of Affliction and Persecution but supports himself and wades thro with the staff of his Christian hope the expectation of the exceeding recompence of reward After this sort to fill up your Kalendar of Saints your Doctors might do well to go down into Egypt and bring their ancient Hieroglyphics to be Canonized and Worship'd Phil. You may do better to forbare scossing and study the Defence which our Doctors make against all the Exceptions your side have produc'd concerning these and other Saints Theoph. I have search'd and find them so impertinent that I lost my labor and shall not until I be urg'd farther to it trouble you and the Reader with the discovery Phil. I thank you for sparing your self and your Friend together for I begin to be weary of this Discourse which hath bin drawn out beyond expectation and me-thinks gives but little satisfaction Theoph. My serious endeavors to open your Eyes unto a discovery of the Errors of your Church are abundantly satisfactory unto my Conscience altho the success should fail and you still stop your Ears against the voice of the Charmer And yet I must trespass upon your patience in one more consideration touching the Canonizing of Saints If an Error should be committed therein it would be diffusive and spread all over your Church Praiers may be