iuuare eos precibus sanis atque interuentu suo apud Deum Non erit inconueniens Scriptum nanque est in Machabeorum libris ita Hic est Hieremias propheta Dei qui semper orat pro populo That is to saye But it shall not bee inconueniente yf it bee sayd that all the Saintes whyche bee departed out of thys lyfe hauynge yet a loue and charitie towardes them that be in the worlde bee carefulle ouer theyr saluation and healpe theym with theyr prayers and intercession vnto God For in the booke of the Machabees it is thus writen This is Hieremie the Prophete of GOD that prayeth alwayes for the people These woordes seeme vnto me very playne Philalethes Answer It is a wonder and meruaile that this old ancient father should go about to confirm and establish the intercession and prayeng of the Saynctes for vs in heauen which is a doctrine no where set foorth vnto vs in all the Canonicall Scriptures by the testimonie and authoritie of an Apocryphicall booke For Origene hymselfe if that bee trewe that Eusebius writeth of hym doothe numbre no more than .xxii. canonicall bookes secludyng the bokes of the Machabees Moreouer Hierome in his preface vnto Damasê° which he did set before the .ii. treatises or homelies of Origene vpon the CaÌ„ticles doth testifie that Origene did write these .ii. treatises vpon the caÌ„ticles whiche Hierome hyâ—selfe dydde turne or translate into latin and .x. bokes which he sayth he dyd not translate because it was a woorke that required muche leysure tyme labour and coste Nowe those that wee haue at this present vnder the name and title of Origene are not called bookes but homelies where as in the meane whyle he wrote none but those .ii. which Hierom did translate But put the case that they be Origenes shall we set more by the authoritie of man than by the authoritie of the Canonical scriptures Lu. 7. Math. 15. Obie 2â— Albion It is written in Luke that the Centurion dyd sende the elders of the people vnto Christ beseching him that he wold come and heale his seruant And why because that he thoughte not hymselfe worthy to come vnto hym Dyd not the the Apostles lykewyse make earneste sute vnto Christ for the woman of Chanance why shoulde wee not likewyse thynking our selues vnworthie by reason our synnes to come vnto God praye vnto the dead Saintes that be already in heauen with their head our sauior Iesu Christe to make intercession for vs Philalethes Answer vvhiles vve liue in this vvorld vve are bound to praye one for another We haue alreadye declared that whiles we yet liue in this worlde we may pray one for an other yea we are bound by goddes worde so for to doo But that we shoulde doo the lyke after we be ones deceassed or departed out of this lyfe and haue fulfiled our course we haue not one onelye iote in al the whole body of the scriptures that testifieth any suche thyng vnto vs Albion Obie 14 Reuel 5 Ye shall not nede to make any repetition of that which hath ben saide alreadie For I doo wel beare in mynd the whole matter Therfore I wil com to the Apocalipse or reuelation of Iohn There wee haue these woordes And when he had taken the boke the fower beastes and the foure and twentie elders fell downe before the lambe hauyng euery one harpes and golden viols full of odours which are the prayers of the Sainctes And in an other place of the same booke he saieth Reue 8. And an other angell came and stoode before the aultar hauyng a golden censer and many odoures were geuen vnto hym that he should offer of the praiers of the Saintes vpon the golden aultar which is before the throne These places doo seeme vnto me to proue manifestly the inuocation of the dead Saintes Phila. Answer Tvvo â—yndes of praiers Ye must vnderstande that there be .ii. kyndes of prayers the one is inuocatioÌ„ or petition and the other is geuyng of thankes laude and prayse This petition yf nede were might be proued by the iiii chapiter of the epistle to the Philippians we cal that inuocation when we desyre some good thing to be geuen vnto vs or some euyll to bee taken awaye from vs. Geuyng of thankes doth contayne the praising and lauding or magnifieng of the name of god for his exceading great benefyts which we receaue dayly and hourely at his handes It is manifeste by that whiche doth immediatly folow that the Apostle doth speake of this laste and not of the first These be the wordes And they sounge a newe song Reuela 5. saieng Thou act worthy to take the boke and to open the seales therof because thou wast killed haste redemed vs to God by thy bloude oute of euerye kynred and tongue and people and nation and haste made vs vnto our God kinges and prestes we shal raigne on the erth Therfore what doth thys make for the intercession of the blessed spirites or soules that the saints do sing praises vnto god in heauen In the other place none other thing is ment Reuela 8 but that the aungell did ioygne his laudes and praises whiche he gaue vnto God with the himnes and songes of the elders Saint Augustine August expoundyng this place writeth thus Alius angelus ipse est Iesus Christus habens thuribulum aureuÌ„ quod est corpus sanctum Ipse enim dominus factus est thuribulum ex quo deus odorem suanitatis accepit propitius factus est mundo quia obtulit seipsum modoreÌ„ suauitatis Et accepit angelus thuribuluÌ„ impleuit illud ex igne altatis Accepit Iesus corpus id est ecclesiam perficieÌ„do patris voluntatem illam igne spiritus impleuit sancti That is to saye The other angell is Iesus Chryst hauyng a golden censer whyche is an holy body For the LORD hym selfe was made a censer oute of the whyche GOD receaued a swete odour and was made mercifull vnto the worlde For he offered hym self a sacrifice of swete smell And the aungell didde take the censer and dydde fyll it wyth the fyre of the aultare IESVS tooke a bodye that is to saye the churche and dydde fyll it wyth the fyre of the holye Ghoste DYDIMVS Obie 25 Râ—ffâ— lâ—â— Eccle. historiae I perceaue brother Albion that ye muste seeke for helpe som other where than in the scriptures of the old and newe testament sith that youre inuocation of the deade Saintes is already driuen out of the Apocalypse or reuelation of Iohn Albi. I haue yet somme what in store These wordes we do reade of Theodosius the emperor in the eleuenth boke of the ecclesiasticall hystorie whiche one Ruffinus dyd write Ciren nibat cum sacerdotibus popâ—lo omnia orationum loca ante martyrum apostolorum thecis â—acebat cilitio prostratus auxilia sibi fida sanctorum intercessione poscebat That is he did with
temple not made wyth handes Ibi. ca. 16. And in an other place yf therfore any angels wil haue sacrifices to be offred vnto theÌ„selues they that wyl haue the sacrifice to be offred not vnto them selues but vnto god the creator of all thinges whom they do serue are to be preferred before them For hereby do they shewe howe syncerely they loue vs when by the sacrifice they wil assubiectize vs not vnto theim selues but vnto him by the contemplation of whoÌ„ they are blessed and seke that we shoulde come vnto him from whome they neuer wente awaye Although thys hadde bene sufficiente for to aunswer al the obiections that caÌ„ be made of the angels yet wil I for to make the matter more plain adde these few wordes that is to saye howe that the same is many tymes attributed vnto aungels as vnto the farther cause whiche in dede doth properly perteyn to god only but is attributed vnto the angels as to ministers instrumentes and meanes Di. I do not well vnderstande what your meaning is Exod. 23. Hovv the name of god 〈◊〉 in hâ—â—â—â—â—ed Philalethes I shall make you anone to vnderstande it In Exodus the lorde dothe with exprsse wordes speake thus of his angel My name saieth he is in him that is I wil geue hym myne autoritye and whatsoeuer he shall do he shall doo it in my name he shall do it by my vertue and power So doth holy Stephen speak also And when fourty yeres were expired Actu 7. ther appeared to him in the wildernesse of Mount Syna an aungell of the lorde Exo 3. Then by and by dothe he adde And the voyce of the lorde came vnto hym saying I am the god of thy fathers the god of Abraham the god of Isaac and the GOD of Iacob Loe he dothe expresselye calle hym GOD whome he hadde already called an aungel because that he vnderstode that the aungell dydde all whyche he dydde in the name of God and at hys commaundement EVTRAPELVS Sith that this aungell dothe call hym selfe God I doo stedfastelye beeleue that he was Chryste The angel of the gâ—â— câ—unsaile the angeâ—â— of the testament Augu. lâ— que â—â— ex odâ— 2. c. 3. the mediatour who is the eternall God and who in the scriptures is called Angelus magni consilii angelus Testamenti that is to say the aungell of greate counsell and the aungell of the Testamente Philalethes Ye doo not beleue amysse For Sainct Augustine in his questions vppon Exodus dothe write of it on thys manner The Lord cried vnto him oute of the bushe The lord in the angell or that lorde the aungell which is called the aungell of greate counsayle â–ª Tertullâ—â— contra â—â—xeam and so Chryste is vnderstanded whervnto maye bee added the sayings of Tertullian in hys boke contra Praxeam It is the sonne sayth he who at the begynnyng dydde condemne that moste proude towre dashyng out and destroying the tongues punnishyng the whole worlde wyth violence of waters raynynge fyre and brymstone vpon Sodome Gomorre beyng GOD of God For he dyd always come down to speake wyth men from Adam vnto the Patriarches and prophets in vision in dreame c. Sith then that this angell of the testament whiche is Christe was promised vnto Abraham Israell coulde no better expresse the faith of his mynd than with these wordes The aungell which hath deliuered me from all euill blesse these children For he vnderstode the angel of great counsaile euen the Lord Iesus who alone is the blessyng saluation righteousnesse and sanctification of his people Albion But what saye ye to that which I alledged out of Zacharie For there he doothe with expresse wordes testifie that the angell prayed vnto God for the delyueraunce of the people if the angels do pray for vs The place of the first chapter of zacharie why shoulde not the blessed soules departed pray also for vs Phil. What if by the same angell we should vnderstand our sauior Iesu Christe who as mediatour prayed for the saluation of his Churche whiche was then troubled when all the countreyes aboute them Hieron in zacharia were at rest Hierome hym selfe writyng vpon this place doothe by the angell of the Lord who stode among the myrre trees who vpon the occasion of the aunswere which they had made whome the lorde had sent throughoute al the whole worlde began so ernestly to praye for Hierusalem and the cities of Iuda vnderstande the aungell of great counsayl Again let vs by waye of disputation graunt that the angels do praye or are carefull for vs. Shal ye bee able to proue by it that we oughte therfore to call vpon them and displacyng Christ the onelye mediatour bewixt god and men to make theim our mediatours aduocates intercessors or that the blessed soules departed doo make intercession for vs vnto our heauenly father Ye haue learned beefore out of Sainct Augustine that the holy aungels will in no wise suffer that any sacrifice shoulde be offred vnto theym The holye aungels vvil haue no sacrifices to bee offered vnto them ergo they vvil not be praied vnto but will haue all sacrifices to be offred vnto him onely whose seruaunts they are Nowe it is moste playne that the prayers of the faithfull congregation are called sacrifices the aungels then who do onely seeke the glorye of him whome they doo serue will in no wise suffer that the faithfull congregation shold maâ—e any prayers vnto them Moreouer what should the carefulnes or praiers of the aungelles profite vs excepte we be firste reconciled vnto god Exo. 33. The lorde said vnto Moises Departe go vp from hence thou and the people whiche thou hast brought vp out of the laÌ„d of Egipt into the land which I promised vnto your forefathers and I will sende myne aungel before thee For I will not go vp with thee because thou arte a stifnecked people lest I consume thee in the waye Here the lorde promised vnto Moises vnto the people hys anâ—el but hear what foloweth streight waies after And wheÌ„ the people heard these euill tydinges they sorowed and no man did put on his best raymentes The scriptures do cal the helpe and assistaunce of the aungels euill tydings as longe as god is angry with vs and not yet reconciled Therfore Moyses doth laboure as much as in hym lieth yea it is all his study and care that god may be reconciled vnto hys people Whiche thing he goeth not aboute to obtayne by desyrynge the aungelles to praye for him and the people but by pouring oute his whole harte beefore God Now they that are reconciled vnto God doo vnderstande that they are through Christ reconciled to him Therfore they doo whollye depende vppon God onely in hym onely doo they reioyce in hym only haue they theyr hole affiance and truste they haue no neede of the intercession of angels but doo offer vnto God onely their troubled spirit their contrite
the inuocation or calling vpon of the dead saints For why should he els say that the chirsten people did keepe the meâ—ories or remembraÌ„ces of the martyrs that they might be helped by their prayers Philalethâ— â–ª But howe dothe this agree with that whiche he writeth bothe in this place and also in the two and twentieth boke De ciuitate Dei and tenth chapiter He saith plainely in the place before alleaged that they did not set vp altars nor yet offered vp sacrifices vnto the martyres And in the boke De ciuitate Dei which we spake of eueÌ„ now he writeth thus The Gentiles haue builded temples set by altars ordeined priests and offred sacrifices vnto their gods But we do not buyld vp temples vnto our martirs as vnto gods but remembrances as vnto dead men whose spirites soules do lyue with God Neither doo we there set vp aultars in the whiche we shold offer sacrifices vnto martires but we do offer sacrifices vnto the only God of the martirs and ours at the which sacrifice as men of God which haue ouercomed the world with theyr confession they are in theyr place and in their order named And yet they be not called vpon or prayed vnto of the priest that offreth the sacrifice For Praiers are â—â—e sacrifiâ—es of the eleâ—â— aâ—d â—â—osen of god he is the priest of god not theirs Nowe this is most euident plaine the prayers are the sacrifices of the saints I mean of the elect and chosen people of God beyng sanctified in the blood of his son Iesus Christ we mai coÌ„clude then eueÌ„ vpon the wordes of S. Augustin that prayers ought to be offered vnto God only and not vnto the dead sainctes that is that God onely not the dead saintes ought of al the godly to be called vpon Herevnto dothe that belong and pertaine whiche he speaketh also in that place sayenge Sancti vel homines vel angeli id sibi tribuâ— nolunt quod vni deo deberi noâ—unt Holy men or holye aungelles will not haue the same to bee attributed vnto theym which they knowe to be due vnto God onely We maye gather by this that they will none of our prayers nor of our inuocation The proude diuelishe spirites do vsurpe that which doth perteine vnto God onely Therefore as Daniell woulde aske nothyng of any man Danie â— but of God only so all the godly will in their praiers call vpon none other but on the true lyuyng God thorough his sonne Iesus Christ our lord and of him only aske all thynges that they haue neede of Nowe as touching his opinion wherby he doothe thynke and suppose that the soules of the righteous doo pray for vs in heauen for as much as it is only grounded vpon coniectures or gessyng and not vppon the infallible worde of God nor vpon any strong argumentes or reasons taken out of the same we may without any perill of our saluation reiect or refuse it cleauing vnto that whiche we haue alleadged before oute of his booke De cura pro mortuis agenda wher he gouÌ„deth himselfe altogether vpon the holy scriptures affirmyng that the blessed soules departed be paste all sollicitude and care for the liuing Albion Nowe sithe that the sayinges of the fathers will not helpe â—h ect 15 eâ— 48 I will come to the plain scriptures These are Iacobs wordes The aungell which hath deliuered me from all euill blesse the children let my name be called vpon them and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac In this autoritye of the scriptures they note two speciall thinges Fyrste how that Iacob dothe confesse that he was deliuered by the aungell and that this aungel doth blesse Secondly how that his name and the name of his fathers shoulde be called vpon those children which is as much as if he should haue sayde They shall call vppon my name and vpon the name of my forefathers â—achâ— 1. Herunto do they adde this place of Zacharye And the aungell of the Lorde aunswered and sayde O Lorde of hostes how loÌ„g wilt thou be vnmercifull to Hierusalem and to the cities of Iuda with whom thou hast ben displeased nowe these three score and ten yeres Hereby doe we plainely learne say they that the aungels doo care for our miseries and praye for vs. They be also kepers guides of meÌ„ yea they be appointed to waite vpon them For thus we rede in Exodus Exod. â—3 Behold saith the lord I send myn angel before thee to kepe thee in thy way to bring thee to the place which I haue prepared And in the psalmes Psal 91. for he shal geue his angels charge ouer thee to kepe thee in all thy ways They shall beare thee in their hands that thou hurt not thy fote against a stone Dani. 10. The angels be also called presidents of realmes because that vnto them whole contreis be coÌ„mitted Phil. First formost as touchyng those thinges that bee generally obiected or brought against vs of the angels Answer how they do blesse pray for vs howe they are presidentes guides kepers bothe of men and of realmes I haue lieffer bryng the answeres of the ancient fathers than myne own reasons LactaÌ„tius in his diuine institutions writeth after this maner Lactanti insti 2. li. ca 17. Neither hath God nede of any name sith that the is alone nor the angels sith they be immortall will suffer themselues to be called goddes whose one and only office and duetye is to bee at the commaundemente and becke of GOD. For we saye that the worlde is gouerned of god as a prouince is by a ruler whose apparitours and officers no man will cal his felowes in the gouernement of the prouince And yet they may do many thinges besydes the commaundemente of the ruler through his ignoraunce whiche is an humayne infirmitye But the ruler gouernour of the whole world who knoweth all thinges and from whose eies nothyng is hidden hath alone with his sonne power ouer all thynges neither is there any thyng in the angelles but a necessitie to obeye Therfore they will haue no honour to be attributed vnto them whose honor is in god But they which are reuolted and fallen awaye from the ministerye and seruice of god do go about to chalenge vnto theym selues the name of god and the worshipping of the gods Saint Augustine Au. lib. 10 de ciuitate dei ca. 12. dothe in all thynges agree with Lactantius What miracles soeuer sayeth this holy father bee so diuinely wrought done eyther by angels or by som other mean that they do coÌ„mend the religion worshipping of the only god in whom only the blessedful lyfe is we must beleue that they are truly done of them or by them whiche do loue vs according to the truth godlinesse God him selfe working in them And when the aungels do heare vs god him selfe doth heare in theym as in his true