intere_v myself_o for_o he_o any_o further_a in_o the_o business_n or_o to_o intercede_v for_o one_o in_o who_o i_o have_v find_v nothing_o but_o weakness_n mix_v with_o ignorance_n nevertheless_o protestant_n print_v this_o man_n letter_n and_o the_o single_a allegation_n of_o such_o a_o witness_n must_v become_v god_n willing_a a_o proof_n against_o i_o i_o speak_v it_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n reverend_a father_n my_o heart_n be_v grieve_v to_o see_v objection_n of_o so_o poor_a a_o nature_n serious_o press_v in_o book_n and_o i_o beg_v of_o almighty_a god_n in_o the_o anguish_n of_o my_o soul_n o_o lord_n will_v thou_o still_o continue_v to_o suffer_v christian_a soul_n to_o let_v themselves_o be_v catch_v in_o such_o weak_a and_o miserable_a snare_n the_o extract_v from_o cardinal_n bona_fw-la which_o they_o bring_v in_o the_o last_o objection_n regard_v the_o common_a difficulty_n so_o often_o propose_v by_o protestant_n about_o prayer_n to_o saint_n the_o difficulty_n consist_v in_o this_o that_o as_o they_o who_o pray_v with_o efficacy_n and_o obtain_v the_o effect_n of_o their_o desire_n be_v sometime_o consider_v as_o the_o doer_n of_o the_o thing_n after_o their_o manner_n it_o happen_v also_o sometime_o that_o instead_o of_o say_v to_o the_o saint_n pray_v for_o we_o they_o say_v do_v this_o always_o understand_v that_o it_o be_v by_o their_o prayer_n they_o do_v it_o by_o such_o objection_n the_o holy_a ghost_n may_v be_v blame_v for_o say_v so_o often_o in_o the_o scripture_n that_o the_o saint_n have_v do_v that_o which_o god_n have_v do_v by_o they_o and_o at_o their_o prayer_n if_o such_o manner_n of_o speak_v be_v familiar_a in_o scripture_n why_o will_v they_o not_o also_o have_v they_o use_v in_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n but_o be_v it_o possible_a to_o explain_v one_o self_n more_o clear_o than_o the_o church_n do_v upon_o this_o subject_a see_v for_o one_o time_n you_o find_v and_o that_o in_o the_o hymn_n and_o other_o poetical_a work_n that_o we_o pray_v the_o saint_n to_o do_v or_o to_o grant_v some_o thing_n you_o will_v meet_v with_o it_o a_o thousand_o time_n explicate_v that_o they_o do_v it_o only_o by_o their_o intercession_n and_o prayer_n and_o have_v not_o the_o thing_n be_v already_o explicate_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n can_v there_o yet_o remain_v any_o doubt_n after_o the_o exposition_n i_o have_v bring_v out_o of_o the_o council_n catechism_n and_o after_o the_o decision_n of_o the_o council_n itself_o for_o i_o beseech_v you_o let_v we_o weigh_v a_o little_a with_o ourselves_o what_o it_o teach_v in_o the_o twenty_o five_o session_n do_v it_o not_o put_v this_o as_o a_o foundation_n of_o the_o invocation_n which_o we_o make_v to_o they_o that_o they_o offer_v up_o prayer_n for_o we_o and_o consequent_o its_o design_n be_v to_o show_v we_o their_o power_n be_v in_o their_o prayer_n and_o yet_o new_a explication_n be_v still_o demand_v as_o if_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v not_o sufficient_o declare_v her_o doctrine_n in_o a_o matter_n otherwise_o very_o clear_a true_o reverend_a father_n it_o extreme_o trouble_v a_o christian_n heart_n to_o see_v though_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n be_v make_v so_o very_o evident_a in_o her_o decision_n people_n shall_v continue_v still_o thus_o to_o juggle_v and_o cavil_v with_o we_o about_o word_n i_o will_v say_v nothing_o about_o mr._n de_fw-fr witte_n rector_n of_o st._n mary_n of_o meckline_n i_o find_v nothing_o in_o that_o objection_n which_o concern_v i_o in_o particular_a nor_o in_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o clergy_n upon_o the_o subject_a of_o some_o brief_n from_o the_o pope_n nobody_o ever_o pretend_v to_o offend_v his_o holiness_n or_o in_o the_o least_o title_n to_o diminish_v the_o authority_n of_o his_o see_n by_o say_v that_o thing_n may_v proceed_v thence_o which_o may_v not_o always_o be_v according_a to_o rule_v on_o the_o contrary_a protestant_n my_n observe_v from_o such_o example_n that_o a_o church_n may_v with_o respect_n maintain_v what_o she_o think_v to_o be_v she_o right_o without_o either_o break_a unity_n or_o hurt_v subordination_n pardon_v i_o reverend_a father_n for_o make_v this_o return_n so_o late_o my_o employment_n of_o another_o nature_n which_o will_v not_o give_v i_o leisure_n soon_o must_v with_o your_o leave_n be_v my_o excuse_n i_o conclude_v praise_v your_o zeal_n which_o will_v not_o suffer_v you_o to_o mitigate_v the_o urgent_a desire_n you_o have_v for_o the_o salvation_n of_o your_o brethren_n i_o be_o with_o particular_a esteem_n reverend_a father_n your_o most_o humble_a and_o most_o affectionate_a servant_n ✚_o j._n benign_a de_fw-fr meaux_n the_o index_n to_o the_o preface_n the_o mischief_n of_o heresy_n and_o schism_n schism_n 1._o catholic_n seek_v the_o best_a mean_n to_o obtain_v peace_n ib._n we_o neither_o decline_v particular_n nor_o refuse_v to_o fight_v with_o protestant_n at_o their_o own_o weapon_n weapon_n 2._o we_o appeal_v to_o scripture_n ib._n to_o the_o father_n and_o council_n in_o all_o age_n age_n 3._o to_o a_o uninterrupted_a tradition_n tradition_n 4._o and_o show_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n from_o protestant_n own_v concession_n ib._n but_o protestant_n fly_v to_o particular_a dispute_n and_o in_o they_o to_o the_o particular_a tenet_n of_o schoolman_n schoolman_n 5._o and_o at_o last_o to_o downright_o rail_v therefore_o a_o plain_a exposition_n of_o our_o doctrine_n be_v think_v necessary_a necessary_a 6._o a_o brief_a account_n of_o the_o religion_n of_o our_o ancestor_n from_o the_o first_o conversion_n of_o this_o nation_n till_o henry_n the_o 8th_n schism_n schism_n 7._o a_o like_a account_n from_o henry_n the_o 8th_n time_n till_o his_o present_a majesty_n majesty_n 8._o the_o rise_n of_o the_o present_a controversy_n controversy_n 9_o of_o the_o betwixt_o the_o vindicator_n and_o the_o defender_n defender_n 10._o the_o state_n of_o the_o controversy_n misrepresent_v by_o protestant_n who_o fly_v to_o private_a opinion_n and_o stick_v not_o to_o what_o be_v of_o necessary_a faith._n faith._n 11._o honour_n due_a to_o saint_n saint_n 12._o image_n and_o relic_n relic_n 13._o justification_n merit_n and_o satisfaction_n satisfaction_n 14._o purgatory_n indulgence_n indulgence_n 15._o sacrament_n church_n church_n 16._o rule_n of_o faith._n faith._n 17._o protestant_n will_v not_o distinguish_v betwixt_o faith_n and_o private_a opinion_n ib._n but_o prolong_v dispute_n about_o unnecessary_n which_o the_o vindicator_n resolve_v to_o decline_v decline_v 18._o the_o index_n to_o the_o book_n article_n i._o introduction_n pag._n 1._o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n be_v the_o protestant_a cry_n and_o calumny_n at_o present_a present_a 1._o other_o protestant_n think_v the_o charge_n unjust_a ib._n it_o be_v begin_v in_o queen_n elizabeth_n time_n reject_v in_o king_n charles_n the_o 1st_n and_o now_o renew_v to_o make_v we_o odious_a odious_a 2._o catholic_n be_v allow_v by_o protestant_n to_o hold_v all_o fundamental_o but_o not_o protestant_n by_o catholic_n catholic_n 3._o mounseur_fw-fr de_fw-fr meaux_n and_o the_o vindicator_n sense_n pervert_v by_o the_o defender_n catholic_o no_o more_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n than_o protestant_n a_o instance_n of_o the_o defender_n charity_n and_o moderation_n ib._n article_n ii_o religious_a worship_n terminate_v ultimate_o in_o god_n alone_o page_n 6._o a_o necessary_a distinction_n in_o respect_n honour_n worship_n adoration_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v equivocal_a term_n and_o misapply_v by_o the_o defender_n defender_n 4._o as_o also_o in_o bow_v kneel_v etc._n etc._n etc._n 5._o the_o honour_n pay_v by_o these_o word_n or_o action_n be_v distinguish_v by_o the_o object_n object_n 6._o divine_a honour_n call_v latria_n be_v due_a to_o god_n only_o inferior_a honour_n call_v doulia_fw-la may_v be_v give_v to_o creature_n prove_v by_o 1._o scripture_n scripture_n 7._o 2._o and_o the_o practice_n of_o protestant_n protestant_n 7._o article_n iii_o invocation_n of_o saint_n pag._n 10._o prayer_n invocation_n etc._n etc._n be_v equivocal_a term_n misapply_v by_o the_o defender_n defender_n 8._o saint_n may_v be_v honour_v they_o pray_v for_o we_o we_o may_v desire_v they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o prove_v three_o sort_n of_o such_o prayer_n prayer_n 9_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n in_o the_o four_o age_n as_o protestant_n grant_v grant_v 10._o these_o prayer_n be_v not_o rhetorical_a flight_n flight_n 11._o in_o st._n gregory_n nazianzen_n st._n ephrem_fw-la st._n basil_n st._n gregory_n nissen_n the_o primitive_a father_n wrongful_o accuse_v by_o the_o defender_n as_o if_o they_o hold_v that_o the_o saint_n be_v not_o admit_v to_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n till_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n judgement_n 12._o wrongful_o accuse_v as_o if_o they_o have_v depart_v from_o the_o practice_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o forego_n age_n age_n 13._o they_o pray_v to_o saint_n within_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n
enjoy_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n till_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n yet_o see_v it_o be_v true_a and_o confess_v by_o the_o most_o 14._o most_o chemuitius_n exam._n conc._n trid._n part_n 3._o the_o invoc_n ss_z vossius_fw-la disp_n 2_o thes_n 1._o bishop_n forbes_n commend_v bishop_n montague_n candour_n in_o acknowledge_v s._n augustin_n to_o allow_v invocation_n of_o martyr_n and_o censure_v bp._n andrews_n for_o deny_v it_o lib._n the_o invocat_n sanctorum_fw-la c._n 4._o n._n 3._o dr._n fulk_n in_o his_o rejoynder_n to_o bristol_n pag._n 5._o spalatensis_n repub._n eccl._n l._n 7._o c._n 12._o n._n 25._o affirm_v the_o same_o of_o st._n augustin_n and_o several_a other_o these_o be_v cite_v by_o s._n c._n in_o his_o answer_n to_o dr._n pierce_n court_n semon_n pag._n 192._o 198._o 199._o see_v also_o thorndike_n cite_v before_o pag._n 14._o ingenuous_a protestant_n that_o they_o also_o hold_v it_o lawful_a to_o invocate_v the_o saint_n that_o they_o not_o only_o pray_v to_o they_o themselves_o but_o exhort_v other_o to_o do_v the_o samâ—_n and_o this_o without_o ever_o give_v they_o the_o least_o caution_n that_o their_o expression_n be_v only_o rhetorical_a flight_n it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o beauties_n argument_n will_v have_v be_v of_o no_o force_n with_o they_o as_o indeed_o it_o be_v not_o with_o st._n augustin_n who_o though_o he_o dare_v not_o decide_v whether_o it_o be_v the_o saint_n themselves_o who_o appear_v sometime_o at_o the_o memorial_n and_o who_o hear_v the_o prayer_n or_o the_o angel_n for_o they_o yet_o make_v no_o difficulty_n to_o pray_v to_o they_o himself_o and_o to_o record_v the_o many_o benefit_n which_o other_o obtain_v by_o pray_v to_o they_o as_o may_v be_v see_v throughout_o his_o whole_a 22d_o chapter_n of_o his_o 8_o book_n de._n civitate_fw-la dei._n but_o it_o seem_v our_o adversary_n be_v force_v to_o great_a strait_n when_o they_o be_v constrain_v to_o catch_v hold_n of_o every_o little_a argument_n which_o they_o think_v ill_o manage_v and_o rather_o than_o not_o maintain_v their_o novelity_n cast_v dirt_n in_o the_o face_n of_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o accuse_v that_o primitive_a church_n itself_o who_o purity_n they_o profess_v to_o imitate_v and_o acdord_v to_o who_o doctrine_n they_o say_v they_o have_v reform_v not_o only_o of_o such_o gross_a error_n as_o be_v contrary_a to_o express_v text_n of_o scripture_n but_o of_o such_o ignorance_n that_o they_o hold_v opinion_n not_o only_o incoherent_a but_o even_o etc._n even_o this_o be_v one_o of_o the_o protestant_n usual_a amusement_n to_o make_v st._n augustin_n quarrel_n with_o st._n augustin_n st._n chrysostom_n with_o st._n chrysostom_n etc._n etc._n contradictory_n to_o several_a other_o expression_n in_o their_o own_o write_n how_o much_o more_o christian_n like_o have_v it_o be_v for_o he_o to_o have_v imitate_v 621.1_o imitate_v proinde_fw-la cum_fw-la apud_fw-la priscos_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la doctores_fw-la legis_fw-la justorum_fw-la animas_fw-la vivere_fw-la aut_fw-la in_o sinu_fw-la abrabae_n aut_fw-la in_o paradisi_fw-la nemore_fw-la aut_fw-la sub_fw-la altar_n dei_fw-la aut_fw-la in_o abditis_fw-la recepriculit_fw-la lbique_fw-la expectare_fw-la suiurae_fw-la gloriae_fw-la praemia_fw-la non_fw-la statim_fw-la suspiceris_fw-la animas_fw-la sancterum_fw-la career_n divini_fw-la intuitus_fw-la gleria_n sed_fw-la intellige_fw-la eas_fw-la nondum_fw-la potiri_fw-la perfecta_fw-la &_o consummat_n illa_fw-la felleitate_fw-la quam_fw-la post_fw-la corporis_fw-la resurrectionem_fw-la expectant_a bibl._n sancta_fw-la lib._n 6._o annot._fw-la 345._o pag._n 621.1_o sixtus_n senensis_n who_o he_o cite_v who_o after_o have_v relate_v the_o several_a obscure_a passage_n of_o the_o father_n affirm_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o just_a to_o remain_v till_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n in_o the_o shade_n of_o paradise_n under_o the_o altar_n of_o god_n or_o in_o hide_a receptacle_n expect_v the_o future_a reward_n of_o glory_n tell_v we_o we_o must_v not_o present_o imagic_a they_o intend_v as_o if_o the_o soul_n enjoy_v not_o the_o beatifical_a vision_n but_o only_o that_o they_o do_v not_o yet_o possess_v that_o entire_a felicity_n which_o they_o expect_v after_o the_o resurrection_n of_o the_o body_n what_o if_o some_o of_o the_o father_n believe_v that_o saint_n depart_v be_v not_o admit_v to_o the_o high_a heaven_n immediate_o upon_o their_o decease_n do_v not_o our_o lord_n himself_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v many_o mansion_n in_o his_o father_n house_n and_o saint_n paul_n that_o as_o the_o star_n do_v differ_v in_o glory_n so_o do_v the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n we_o need_v not_o inquire_v how_o one_o may_v be_v subordinate_a to_o another_o as_o the_o degree_n of_o angel_n be_v let_v we_o let_v that_o alone_o till_o we_o come_v thither_o however_o let_v mounseur_fw-fr daillè_fw-la and_o this_o gentleman_n take_v heed_n lest_o while_o they_o deny_v any_o invocation_n of_o the_o saint_n they_o stumble_v not_o upon_o purgatory_n certain_o what_o ever_o sense_n may_v be_v put_v upon_o the_o primitive_a father_n write_n the_o constant_a practice_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n show_v that_o she_o always_o believe_v some_o person_n to_o enjoy_v the_o beatific_a vision_n immediate_o after_o their_o departure_n out_o of_o this_o life_n though_o there_o remain_v a_o further_a compliment_n of_o their_o glory_n at_o the_o general_a resurrection_n when_o soul_n and_o body_n shall_v be_v unite_v another_o piece_n of_o the_o like_a veneration_n for_o the_o ancient_a father_n follow_v defender_n follow_v 13._o primitive_a father_n calumniate_v by_o the_o defender_n where_o he_o accuse_v those_o of_o the_o four_o age_n of_o depart_v from_o the_o practice_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o age_n before_o they_o and_o endeavour_n to_o prove_v it_o from_o the_o profound_a silence_n of_o the_o father_n of_o the_o three_o first_o age_n from_o who_o he_o challenge_v i_o to_o bring_v he_o any_o one_o instance_n of_o such_o intercession_n have_v he_o consult_v his_o brethren_n the_o centurist_n of_o magdeburg_n year_n magdeburg_n 14._o prayer_n to_o saint_n within_o the_o one_a 300._o year_n he_o will_v not_o have_v make_v so_o bold_a a_o challenge_n for_o they_o acknowledge_v that_o origen_n who_o live_v anno_fw-la 226._o miseris_fw-la 226._o the_o centurist_n of_o magdeburg_n cent._n 3._o col_fw-fr 83._o lin_v 49._o allege_v origen_n say_v o_o beat_v job_n or_o a_o pronobis_fw-la miseris_fw-la pray_v to_o holy_a job_n and_o admit_v the_o d_o invocation_n of_o angel_n they_o affirm_v also_o that_o there_o be_v manifest_a step_n of_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n in_o the_o doctor_n of_o that_o ancient_a age._n have_v he_o also_o consult_v cardinal_n perron_n who_o he_o cite_v he_o will_v have_v see_v that_o the_o father_n of_o the_o four_o age_n be_v so_o far_o from_o depart_v from_o the_o practice_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o age_n before_o they_o that_o they_o make_v mention_n of_o that_o forego_n practice_n thus_o st._n gregory_n nazianzen_n in_o his_o sermon_n upon_o the_o aniversary_n of_o st._n cyprian_n 28._o cyprian_n again_o cent._n 3._o col_fw-fr 75._o line_n 29._o they_o say_v angelos_n etiam_fw-la origines_fw-la invocenlos_fw-la putavit_fw-la hom._n 1._o in_o ezech._n i_o they_o cent_n 3._o c._n 4._o col_fw-fr 83._o line_n 47._o videat_fw-la in_o dectorum_fw-la huius_fw-la saeculi_fw-la scriptis_fw-la non_fw-la obscura_fw-la vestigia_fw-la invecationis_fw-la sancterum_fw-la apud_fw-la protestnat_fw-la apology_n tr._n 2._o sect_n 3._o subd_v 7._o pag._n 95_o in_o margin_n n._n 26_o 27_o 28._o who_o flourish_v in_o the_o year_n 250_o not_o only_o pray_v to_o he_o but_o relate_v a_o history_n how_o st._n justina_n be_v in_o danger_n of_o make_v shipwrac_n of_o her_o chastity_n by_o the_o magical_a art_n of_o st._n cyprian_n before_o he_o be_v convert_v to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n have_v recourse_n to_o the_o intercession_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n mary_n beg_v of_o she_o to_o assist_v she_o who_o virginity_n be_v in_o danger_n by_o which_o relation_n whether_o he_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o cyprian_a he_o mention_n or_o no_o it_o matter_n not_o he_o at_o least_o plain_o show_v that_o the_o practice_n do_v not_o arise_v in_o his_o time_n but_o be_v the_o common_a custom_n of_o the_o precedent_n age._n what_o then_o if_o the_o few_o write_n of_o the_o ancient_n of_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n which_o remain_v be_v silent_a in_o this_o particular_a do_v it_o follow_v that_o they_o approve_v not_o the_o practice_n or_o be_v there_o nothing_o now_o to_o be_v believe_v in_o the_o church_n but_o what_o must_v be_v find_v in_o their_o write_n this_o indeed_o may_v be_v a_o socinian_o plea_n but_o i_o do_v not_o think_v those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o by_o law_n establish_v will_v have_v stand_v upon_o it_o when_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n oblige_v they_o to_o venerate_v the_o 4_o first_o general_n council_n 1._o stat._n 1_o eliz._n c._n 1._o so_o far_o as_o not_o to_o judge_v any_o matter_n or_o
that_o whether_o you_o will_v or_o not_o every_o petition_n to_o a_o prince_n or_o a_o court_n of_o justice_n be_v necessary_o a_o prayer_n and_o he_o that_o make_v it_o invocate_v or_o call_v upon_o that_o prince_n or_o court_n for_o favor_n or_o for_o justice_n 2._o honour_v jid._n saint_n may_v be_v honour_v i_o must_v also_o with_o the_o same_o mr._n thorndike_n say_v that_o to_o dispute_v whether_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o honour_v those_o who_o we_o call_v proper_o saint_n or_o not_o be_v to_o dispute_v whether_o we_o be_v to_o be_v christian_n and_o to_o believe_v this_o or_o not_o for_o if_o god_n have_v say_v i_o will_v honour_v those_o who_o honour_v i_o it_o become_v as_o certain_o to_o honour_v they_o too_o and_o that_o whether_o this_o honour_n be_v religious_a or_o civil_a become_v disputable_a only_o for_o want_v of_o word_n vulgar_a use_v not_o have_v provide_v proper_a term_n to_o signify_v all_o conception_n which_o come_v not_o from_o common_a sense_n 3._o i_o suppose_v mr._n we_o saint_n pray_v for_o we_o thorndike_n as_o in_o they_o speak_v also_o the_o sense_n of_o his_o church_n when_o he_o tell_v we_o and_o prove_v it_o from_o undeniable_a 28._o undeniable_a apoc._n v._n 8._o viij_o 3._o gen._n xxvi_o 5.24_o exod._n xxxii_o 13._o deut._n ix_o 27._o 1_o king_n xi_o 1.32_o 33_o 34._o xv_o 4_o 2_o king_n viij_o 19_o nineteeen_o 34._o xx_o 6._o esd_v xxxvii_o 35._o 1_o king_n xviii_o 36._o 1_o chron._n xxix_o 28._o text_n of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v and_o st._n cyprian_n st._n jerome_n st._n augustin_n st._n leo_n st._n gregory_n and_o many_o more_o which_o he_o can_v bring_v passage_n of_o the_o father_n word_n ibid._n pag._n 354._o ibid._n pag._n 355._o whether_o they_o be_v our_o mediator_n intercessor_n or_o advocate_n be_v only_o a_o contention_n about_o word_n that_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v that_o the_o saint_n in_o happiness_n pray_v for_o the_o church_n militant_a and_o that_o therefore_o whatsoever_o may_v be_v dispute_v whether_o saint_n or_o angel_n in_o this_o regard_n may_v be_v count_v mediator_n intercessor_n or_o advocate_n between_o god_n and_o we_o will_v be_v mere_a contention_n about_o word_n which_o i_o intend_v to_o avoid_v if_o i_o can_v in_o all_o controversial_a discourse_n so_o that_o the_o difference_n betwixt_o catholic_n and_o moderate_a protestant_n be_v not_o whether_o saint_n or_o angel_n be_v to_o be_v honour_v with_o a_o inferior_a honour_n or_o whether_o they_o pray_v for_o we_o but_o whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o pray_v to_o they_o not_o in_o that_o sense_n as_o if_o we_o intend_v by_o that_o prayer_n to_o do_v that_o to_o they_o which_o they_o do_v to_o god_n for_o we_o for_o that_o as_o the_o same_o mr._n 356._o ibid._n pag._n 356._o thorndike_n well_o observe_v still_o real_o and_o actual_o as_o the_o same_o author_n note_n apprehend_v they_o to_o be_v creature_n which_o prevent_v idolatry_n can_v not_o be_v say_v without_o idolatry_n but_o whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o beseech_v or_o entreat_v they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o and_o the_o question_n betwixt_o the_o defender_n and_o we_o be_v we_o we_o may_v desire_v they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o whether_o such_o kind_n of_o address_n as_o these_o be_v of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o to_o make_v god_n as_o he_o call_v they_o of_o man_n and_o woman_n a_o very_a disrespectful_a term_n for_o the_o saint_n who_o reign_n with_o god_n who_o we_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v our_o fellow-creature_n however_o exalt_v to_o such_o a_o glorify_a state._n perhaps_o he_o will_v here_o tell_v i_o with_o the_o same_o mr._n thorndike_n 9_o thorndike_n 9_o that_o there_o may_v be_v three_o sort_n of_o prayer_n to_o saint_n ibid._n three_o for_o be_v of_o prayer_n to_o saint_n accordidg_v to_o mr._n therndike_n ibid._n the_o first_o of_o those_o that_o be_v make_v to_o god_n but_o to_o desire_v his_o blessing_n by_o and_o through_o the_o merit_n and_o interecession_n of_o the_o saint_n the_o second_o of_o those_o prayer_n which_o be_v reduce_v to_o a_o or_o apronobis_fw-la and_o the_o three_o when_o one_o desire_n immediate_o of_o the_o saint_n the_o same_o blessing_n spiritual_a and_o temperal_n 357._o ibid._n pa._n 357._o which_o all_o christian_n require_v of_o god_n that_o as_o to_o the_o first_o he_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v utter_o agretable_a with_o christianity_n though_o he_o can_v go_v so_o far_o with_o mr._n therâ—â—â—â—_n as_o to_o allow_v of_o the_o word_n meris_fw-la in_o those_o prayer_n which_o he_o think_v make_v the_o merit_n of_o our_o saint_n râ—â—_n parallel_n with_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n that_o the_o second_o have_v the_o begâ—â—â—ing_n in_o the_o â—_o flourish_a vine_n of_o the_o church_n after_o constantine_n 358._o constantine_n this_o be_v mr._n thorndikes_n assertion_n who_o affirmas_fw-la that_o the_o light_n of_o the_o greek_a and_o letin_n church_n bassi_n nazlanzen_n nyssene_n ambrose_n jerom_n augustin_n chrysostom_n both_o the_o cyrll_n theodoret_n fulgeutlus_n gregory_n the_o great_a leo_n more_o or_o rather_o all_o after_o that_o time_n have_v all_o of_o they_o speak_v to_o the_o saint_n depart_v and_o desire_v their_o assistance_n ibid._n pag._n 358._o but_o that_o they_o be_v rather_o 〈…〉_o and_o rhetorical_a flight_n then_o direct_a prayer_n and_o that_o in_o they_o they_o begin_v to_o depart_v from_o the_o practice_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o three_o age_n before_o they_o but_o as_o to_o the_o three_o that_o he_o have_v sufficient_o show_v in_o his_o appendix_n to_o this_o three_o article_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n devotion_n to_o the_o saint_n be_v such_o and_o that_o therefore_o she_o adore_v man_n and_o woman_n to_o all_o which_o i_o will_v as_o brief_o as_o i_o can_v give_v he_o positive_a answer_n and_o examine_v his_o ground_n because_o he_o tax_v i_o with_o negligence_n in_o that_o point_n and_o first_o 10._o first_o 10._o as_o to_o what_o he_o say_v that_o mounseur_fw-fr daillè_fw-la himself_n have_v the_o same_o notion_n he_o have_v of_o the_o expression_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n of_o the_o four_o age_n viz._n that_o they_o be_v rather_o innocent_a wish_n and_o rhetorical_a flight_n than_o prayer_n i_o do_v not_o doubt_v of_o it_o but_o i_o think_v the_o rhetoric_n lie_v at_o his_o door_n who_o fly_v to_o such_o a_o poor_a shift_n it_o seem_v these_o be_v some_o of_o the_o duriores_fw-la loci_fw-la more_o difficult_a passage_n which_o some_o only_o nibble_v as_o other_o can_v not_o digest_v and_o he_o only_o shift_v off_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o rhetorical_a flight_n or_o novelty_n and_o therefore_o mounseur_fw-fr de_fw-fr meaux_n be_v not_o out_o as_o this_o gentleman_n seem_v to_o insinuate_v when_o he_o say_v 4._o exposit_n sect._n 3._o page_n 4._o that_o protestant_n in_o general_n oblige_v by_o the_o sirength_n of_o truth_n begin_v to_o acknowledge_v the_o custom_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n and_o honour_v their_o relic_n be_v establish_v even_o in_o the_o four_o age_n of_o the_o church_n age._n protestant_o grant_v pray_v to_o saint_n to_o have_v be_v establish_v in_o the_o four_o age._n or_o that_o m._n daillè_fw-la grant_v as_o much_o for_o certain_o his_o accuse_v the_o father_n of_o that_o age_n of_o alter_v in_o that_o point_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o three_o forego_v age_n and_o his_o mince_v the_o boldness_n of_o his_o assertion_n by_o his_o neque_fw-la 〈◊〉_d à _fw-la veer_fw-la long_o aberr_v aturum_fw-la puto_fw-la and_o his_o ferè_fw-la sunt_fw-la bujus_fw-la generis_fw-la show_v that_o he_o can_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o many_o of_o they_o can_v not_o pass_v for_o such_o 7._o defence_n pa._n 7._o howeve_v the_o defender_n be_v of_o mounseur_fw-fr daillè_n religion_n in_o this_o 11._o this_o 11._o point_n and_o tell_v we_o that_o these_o address_n be_v real_o of_o this_o line_v â—nd_n prove_v it_o first_o from_o two_o example_n of_o st._n gregory_n natianzen_n â—nd_v from_o the_o opinion_n of_o those_o age_n that_o the_o saint_n depart_v be_v â—t_a admit_v to_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n immediate_o upon_o their_o decease_n but_o his_o first_o argument_n be_v altogether_o insufficient_a only_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o primitive_a fathen_n to_o saint_n be_v not_o rhetorical_a slight_n only_o for_o example_n for_o i_o say_v suppose_v for_o with_o leave_n of_o the_o greek_a scollast_n the_o patticle_n if_o do_v not_o always_o denote_v â—_o doubt_v but_o rather_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v so_o in_o this_o place_n if_o st._n gregory_n iustead_o of_o hear_v o_o great_a soul_n of_o constintint_n if_o live_v last_o hear_v i_o have_v sald_v as_o this_o author_n will_v have_v he_o hear_v o_o grease_n soul_n but_o i_o know_v not_o â—â—better_v thou_o do_v or_o no_o the_o rhetotlcal_a slight_n have_v be_v spoil_v how_o much_o rather_o than_o may_v we_o supâ—e_v that_o the_o sense_n of_o this_o pather_z