wall Phil. This Canon may respect the Pictures of God and not of the Saints and you have dismist that Point Theoph. Your Church however is to blame to transgress this Canon in admitting Images of God and of the Trinity But seeing you allow Worship and Adoration to the Images of Christ and of the Saints the reason given in the Canon reacheth them also The Fathers would not have that which is worship'd pictur'd on the Wall Phil. You will find other Answers given to that Canon That it prohibited Images in the Church because then the People were newly weanâ—d from Idolatry and might be apt to return For the Council was held under Pope Marcellus Anno 305. and withal the Heathen among whom they liv'd might suppose Christians did worship Idols like themselves whilst they condemn'd them and there was danger least the Gentiles should break in upon them and do despite unto the Images of Christ and the Saints Theoph. The Reason given in the Canon confutes these Answers and manifests them to be but shifts That which is worship'd must not be pictur'd Phil. b De Im. l. 2. c. 9. Bellarmin having reckon'd others chiefly approves this Answer The Canon forbids Images upon the Walls least they should be defil'd and stain'd with the moistness and mouldring of the Wall but Pictures in Arrasor Tables are not forbid as not being so liable to such Inconveniencies Theoph. He will say somwhat tho to little purpose such a ridiculous Answer deserves no Consideration Phil. But withal he shews how the Eliberitan Council consisted but of 19 Bishops And what are they if compar'd with such General Councils which afterwards establish'd Images Theoph. This is like himself when any thing makes against him to slight it But this Council was alwaies held in great esteem for the Antiquity and Piety thereof Hosius presided therein and the other Bishops were most of them Confessors and at that time assembled with the hazard of their lives to give Rules and Directions to the People of God And in those days Bishops were not so numerous the World being not subdued to Christianity And lastly Binius acknowledgeth there were six and thirty Presbyters in the Council besides the Bishops Phil. Once more Bellarmin shews That Council did incline to Novatianism denying Reconciliation unto the Church even at their deaths unto some Offenders as appears in the three first Canons of that Council whereas about 20 years after the great Council of Nice in the 13 th Canon Decreed the contrary a Bin. Tom. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We determin in general That any one departing this life and desiring to receive the Eucharist the Bishop upon examination shall give it him Theoph. Bellarmin doubtless was not ignorant That Pope Innocent the first had vindicated the Eliberitan Council from this imputation of Novatianism and reconcil'd the difference of the Canons by the times wherein they were made b Innocent Epist 1. c. 2. Cum illis temporibus crebrae essent persecut c. In those persecuting Times the Fathers of the Eliberitan Council were more severe least the easiness of Reconciliation to the Church should encourage some to Apostatize they Decreed That such as did fall off should not be admitted to the Eucharist even at their deaths But when Constantine restored Peace to the Church and Persecution ceas'd the Council of Nice releas'd the former Canon and Decreed The Communion should be given to such as desired it upon their death beds Now Bellarmin's brother Cardinal c Annal Tom Anno 305. Fatetur se paulo liberius de hoc Concil loquutum c. Baronius taking into consideration this Justification of the Eliberitan Council by Pope Innocent makes acknowledgment That he spoken too freely against this Council in his Annals before and Declares That there could be no suspicion of Novatianism in that Council Phil. d Baron Tom. 1. Anno Christi 57. Baronius suspects this Canon against Pictures may be supposititious put in among the rest by some who had ill will to Images in after times Because saith he the Image-breakers take no notice of this Canon in their defence Theop. This is their constant practice to suspect all that makes against them They have accustomed themselves much of late to the corrupting of Fathers and Councils and would have us believe they have learn'd that Art from the Primitive Times And withal you may observe Baronius's cheat upon his Reader In the year 570. he much labors to undermine the Autority of this Council as being but a particular Council of few Bishops given to Novatianism and for this Canons sake against Images all this indignation and therefore the Canon must be thought supposititious Now when he hath prepossest his Reader with these prejudices against this Council long after in the year 305. as you have heard he recants acknowledging he had spoke too freely against it and that Pope Innocent had acquitted the Council of Novatianism c. Do you not believe the Learned Cardinal knew as much of this Concern when he wrote his first censure of the Council as when he cries peccavi only he was willing to undervalue the Council in the first place and might presume many of his Readers might never go so far as to read this his Recantation But to proceed in Church History concerning Pictures of the Saints in Churches we have a notable passage of Epiphaninus a Learned Bishop in Cyprus who going towards Bethel with John Bishop of Jerusalem in the way he turn'd into a Church in a Village call'd Anablatha to Pray And seeing there a piece of hanging before the door of the Church painted and having the Image of Christ in it or some Saint for afterwards in his Letter to John Bishop of Jerusalem he saith That he did not well remember whose Picture it was he cut the hanging and Picture into pieces and wish'd the Keeper of the Church to wrap some dead Body in it and bury it When some of the Village standing by expostulated with him for the Fact and said That however he should buy another piece of hanging before the door he promis'd to do so and sent it afterwards to the Bishop of Jerusalem to be put up instead of the other Now in this Letter to the Bishop who had Jurisdiction in that place he gives a reason of his action a Hierom. Tom 2. Epist Epiphan ad Jeannem Episc Hiros cum vidissem in Ecclesia Christi contra Script Autorit hominis c. When I saw in the Church of Christ against the Autority of Holy Scripture the Image of a Man set up I cut it in pieces And in the close of his Letter he adviseth the Bishop to command That such hangings should not be admitted into the Church which are against our Religion that so he might take away all scandal and scruple c. Phil. Many Answers you will find given to this memorable Passage Theoph. Yes it
hold That the Souls of the Faithful departed before Christs Resurrection did not enter into Heaven neither see the Face of God nor know the State of things here above them and therefore it was not usual in the Church to call upon them and say Holy Abraham pray for us Your Doctors hold a Bell. ib. c. 19. Notandum ante adventum Christi qui moriebantur non intrabant in Coelum non Deum videbant nec ordinarie poterant cognese preces sapplicantium That the Spirits of the Patriarchs and Prophets and People of God were shut up in Limbo Patrum as they call it in a subterraneous place the uppermost verge of Hell beneath us without pain and without joy in the Vision of God waiting for their redemtion out of that Prison by the coming of Christ who descended into Hell to set them at liberty and to conduct them triumphantly into Heaven When we urge that Text Isa 63. ver 16. Doubtless thou art our Father tho Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledgeth us not to shew how the Saints departed know not the Affairs and Transactions here below You answer So it was before Christs Ascension the Saints departed were not in Heaven until Christ opened the Kingdom to them but they were shut up from the Vision of God and from all knowledge of the concerns of this World and yet contrary to this their own Hypothesis you see how they give Instances of Moses and Samuel and Onias and Jeremiah praying for their People the Jews and sollicitous for them in their distress Phil. You may therefore observe the limitation of Bellarmine Non poterant ordinarie preces cognoscere c. In that state they understood not ordinarily the Affairs upon Earth nor heard the Prayers of the People but God might reveal them and so excite them to pray for the People upon which account some of our Doctors hold a Azorius Instit. Moral lib. 9. c. 9. Medina de Orat. Quaest 4. That Prayers might be made to the Fathers in Lymbo yea even to the Souls in Purgatory because they are in a state of Grace and Charity and by the gift of God or by the Ministery of Angels they may hear our Praiers Theoph. Upon the same ground we may daily implore the Assistance and Prayers of our Friends that are absent living at a great distance from us for God may reveal our Desires and Petitions to them but alas these are weak props and suppositions to uphold a feeble cause and hitherto your Learned Cardinal hath not bin demonstrative in the point Phil. Before we conclude I do not doubt but you shall change your note In the New Testament we read Rev. 5. 8. How the 24 Elders fall down before the Lamb having golden Viols full of Odors which are the Praiers of the Saints Theoph. What Argument can Bellarmin or you frame out of this Text I understand not his design Phil. Bellarmin shews how Interpreters understand by the Praiers of the Saints Intercessions made by the Saints in Heaven for the confirmation and support of their weak Brethren upon Earth Theoph. It seems then even the Saints in Glory make use of Mediators of the four Beasts and the twenty four Elders to present their Prayers to the Lamb. The more general Interpretation of that place is That these Odors filling the golden Vials are the Praiers of the Faithful upon Earth which are represented in the Psalm To ascend like the Incense Psal 141. ver 2. Phil. This gives as full testimony to our purpose as the other for thereby it appears the Praiers of the Saints on Earth are presented unto God and to the Lamb by the Saints and Angels in Heaven And to this effect we read Rev. 8. ver 3 4. how an Angel came and stood at the Altar having a golden Censer and there was given unto him much Incense that he should offer it with the Praiers of all Saints upon the golden Altar which was before the Throne And the smoke of the Incense which came with the Praiers of the Saints ascended up before God out of the Angels hand Now this Incense offered up with the Praiers of the Saints on Earth we may suppose are the Merits and Intercession of the Saints in Glory Theoph. And we may suppose they are the Merits and Intercession of Christ whom Primasius understands by the Angel in this place we know it is said expresly Heb. 9. 24. That Christ is entred into the Holiest of all into Heaven it self to appear in the presence of God for us and that by him we offer up to God continually our Sacrifices of Praise Heb. 13. 15. and without all peradventure he is most properly said to add Incense and sweet Odours to our Praiers and Praises because for his sake only they are acceptable to the Father However I cannot but observe what a leap your Cardinal hath taken over all the New Testament to produce his first and cheifest Arguments out of the Revelations of S t John for the Saints hearing and presenting our Prayers unto God purposely to involve himself and others in mysteries and visions which can admit no clear Interpretation neither become useful to lay the Foundation of a Doctrine which takes up the greatest part of the peoples devotions in the Church viz. of the Invocation of Saints In a like case S t Augustine cried out to the Donatists a A Ferte aliquid quod non egeat Interpret Bring forth such proofs as want no Interpretation Suppose I should undertake to prove That the Souls of the just departed are not in Heaven neither do enjoy a perfect state in bliss Rev. 6. vers 9. c. because when the fift seal was opened S t John saw under the Altar the Souls of the Martyrs of them that were slain for the word of God and for the Testimony which they held and they cried with a loud voice saying How long O Lord Holy and true dost thou not judg and avenge our blood upon them that dwell on the earth and white robes were given unto every one of them that they should rest yet for a little season until their fellow servants and their Brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled Suppose I should from the same Text urge that the Martyrs do expressly pray for Divine vengeance upon their enemies but no mention is made of any intercession for their Freinds you would not well approve Arguments drawn from such mysterious visions and Revelations and therefore do not your self make use of them b Tom. 30. in Epistolis ad Paulinum ad Marcellam S t Jerom tells us That the book of the Revelations hath as many mysteries as words and that the whole is to be understood in a spiritual sense and not literal Phil. These things were certainly written for our Instruction and Bellarmine very well argues That if the Saints in Heaven and Martyrs do pray for jugdment upon their
distinction So you have in Saints worship and Image worship 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Supreme and inferior religious worship composeth the difference So Christ is the Invisible head of the Church Catholick and the Pope the visible and Ministerial So the works of the Law do not justify together with faith but good works do So you may hold two principles with the Manichees For altho God be the only Author and Creator of good things there may be any other first principle of evil things And thus we can have no standing rule and measure of Truth and Religion as long as the wit of Man shal adventure to delude them by the subtlety of a distinction Phil. How can you attain to any true knowledg of things if you take away the use of distinguishing Theoph. Not the use but the abuse of distinguishing is our greivance when subtle men elude the most evident Testimonies of the Scripture and the Fathers against them which distinctions minted in their own brains and only serving to their present purpose Phil. Our Doctors excellently distinguish in this work of Mediation Namely That Christ is the Mediator between God and Man and the blessed Saints are Mediators between us and Christ a 3 Sent. Dist. 3. qu. 2. So Bonaventure of the Blessed Virgin She is the Mediatrix between us and Christ as Christ is Mediator between us and God b l. 9. Moral Just. c. 10. Sancti apud Christum c. And so Azorius asserts of all the blessed Saints The Saints are our Advocates and Patrons with Christ and Christ with God And some of our Doctors give an excellent reason of this distinction They say Christ is not only an Advocate but also a judge examining the Merit of the supplicant and how shall a poor Sinner come unto him without an Intercessor to find Acceptance so the c Antonius 4. sum titulo 15. Deus providet nobis c. Arch-Bishop of Florence and therefore saith he God hath furnish'd us with an Advocatrix who is gentle and sweet without any mixture of sharpness according to that notable saying of S t Bernard which Antonius cites O man thou hast a secure access to God where the Mother stands before the son and the son before the father the Mother shewing her Breast and Paps and the son his Side and the Wounds unto his Father Theoph. This is a new Model of Divinity to the purpose we had thought the Love of Christ towards poor Sinners could find no paralel That the good Shep-heard needed no solicitation and mediation of others to bring home the lost sheep he came down from Heaven to save it We find he has gratiously invited the weary and heavy laden to come unto him do ye find where he puts them from him since the work of our Redemption is perfected The Apostle tells us he can have compassion of our infirmities and be touched with a fellow feeling being in all points Tempted like as we are yet without Sin And therefore we may come boldly unto the throne of grace that we may obtain Mercy Feb. 4 15. 16. That we have a Merciful and Faithful High Priest to make Reconciliation for the Sins of the People Heb. 2. 17. That he is able to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him seeing he ever liveth to make Intercession for them Heb. 7. 25 All this and much more we Read to our unspeakable Comfort but nothing of his severe Inquisition and Judging them that come to him before his second coming unto Judgment And yet I must tell you you have bin too favouroble in the discovery this Mystery of Iniquity works higher then you have Represented The blessed Virgin must not only intreat but command her Son It is a Notorious form of Praier among you d O Felix Puerpera Jure Matris impera O happy Mother upon a Mothers autority command thy Son And altho e Ibin c. 16 Quiâ— nostrum hoc dicit Bellarmin askt who used that Form as tho he were ignorant thereof yet as being conscious he immediately after Exenses and justifies the Praier a Si Josh 10. dicitur obedire c. For saith he if it be said Joshua the 10. The Lord obeâ—'d the voice of a Man why may not after some sort the Son of God be said to obey his Mother Theoph. Aliquo modo Your Doctors can make any thing good but in the first place it is not there said That the Lord obei'd the voice of Man So indeed your vulgar Translation renders it but according to the Original we read it thus b That the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a Man Josh 10. 14. And so the septuagint and if God did obey the voice of a Man yet we do not read that Joshua did command the Lord but only the Sun and Moon Sun stand thou still in Gibeon and Thou Moon in the vally uf Asalon and therefore c Jure Matris impera vpon the authority of a Mother command thy Son it was Intolerable to say so when Christ was in the Flesh and subject to his Parents much more now he being ascended into Glory You do not read that the Blessed Virgin laid any command upon her Son on Earth Phil. You may take these as high Expressions of a devout Soul manifesting her confidence in the blessed Mother to obtain any thing of her Son and Saviour Theoph. Such extatic devotion hath led many of your Church beyond all reason and Religion in their superstitious addresses to the Saints and upon this occasion given I will insist more upon your Extravagancies in the Invocation and worship of our Lady You salute Her the Queen of Heaven and Mother of Mercies and so your Doctors have assigned unto Her more then half the Kingdom with the Father As the great King Abassuerus promist unto Queen Ester d Gabriel Biel Supra Canon Missae lect 80. c. One of your Schoolmen tells us That God reserving the execution of Justice to himself hath granted to the Virgin Mother the dispensation of Grace and Mercy e Bernardinus in suo Mariali c. By another we are taught to appeal from the Bar of Gods Justice unto the Throne of Mercy of the Blessed Virgin And whereas the Apostle exhorts to come boldly unto the Throne of Grace that we may obtain Mercy The Arch-Bishop of Florence tels us That f Mariah est thronus Christi c. Mary is this throne wherein Christ rested and that it is necessary all such should be Justified and saved unto whom she turnsher favorable countenance and for whom she proves an advocate and Bernardinus further ◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 assures us That a In Christo tanquam in capite influente in Mariâ tanquam c. as Grace is in Christ as in the head and fountain so is it in Mary as in the neck transmitting So that no Grace can descend from
the Decree Ad eorum orationes opem auxiliumque confugere Phil. I have no reason to admit sinister constructions any farther then the words will necessarily force me Now the later terms may be Exegetical of the former and well transpos'd thus To fly to the aid and assistance of their Praiers And then tell me what have you gotten by this decree Theoph. Your practise will best interpret your Rule If the public praiers of your Church request more of the Saints in Heaven then the assistance only of their Praiers you may suppose your Church intended and understood and exprest more in her decree You shall find your Church often to supplicate That as well by the Merits as by the Intercession of the Saints God would be favourable unto them In the Hymnes above mentioned to the Virgin Mary she is call'd the Mother of Grace and mercy and Protection from our Ghostly Enemy is sought from her and reception into Glory So likewise in the hymne of the Apostles Grace and Vertue is desired of the Saints for such as languish in their Vices And that by the command of the Apostles as it is exprest and not by their Praiers And yet Bellarmin hath the confidence to interpret all these things according to the sense of the Church as he speaks That all these things are expected from their Praiers not from any other assistance You shall find several Popes in the Names of Peter and Paul promising great things unto Princes who shall engage in the defence and cause of the Church and threatning dreadfull Judgments from them upon such as are disobedient Pope Hadrian writing to the Emperor Constantine and Irene his Mother Congratulates their embracing the Faith of Peter and Paul Princes of the Apostles and promiseth a Binius Teme 5. p. 554. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. They shall protect the Empire make them Victorious and bring the Barbarous Nations under their feet On the contrary we find direful threats from these two Apostles Pope Pius the 4 th concludes his Bulls after this sort b Nulli hominum liceat bane c vid. Concil Trid. edit per Joan. Gallemaâ—t ad finem Let none presume to infringe this our Declaration If any shall attemt to do so let him know he shall incur the wrath of God Almighty and of his two blessed Apostles Peter and Paul These things are Obvious and I will not heap Quotations to prove them I will only give you an Account of one notable Letter to this effect which I mention'd in the beginning of this Conference and will now transcribe much of it for your sake and the Readers that ye may judge what your Popes opinion was of the power and Parronage of the Apostles and so by consequence of the other Saints c Bin. Tom. 5. p. 55. Pope Stephen the 3. being grievously streightened by Aystulphus King of Lombardy who with a Potent Army besieged Rome sends a Letter in the name of S t Peter unto Pipin and his two sons Charles and Carloman Kings of France It begins thus d Petrus Apost vecatus à Jesu Christo dei filio c. Peter call'd to be an Apostle by Jesus Christ the Son of God c. Grace Peace and Power c. To you most excellent men Pipin Charles and Carloman 3 Kings c. After the salutation he proceeds e Ego Petrus Apost dietus a Christo c. I Peter an Apostle being call'd by Christ and the good pleasure of the Divine Clemency and ordain'd by his power to enlighten the whole world f Quamobrem omnes c. Therefore all Men who fulfil my Preaching and command must believe That their sins by Gods precept are forgiven in this World and shall go into life Eternal without Blemish c. Therefore I Peter c Who have Adopted you for my Sons do exhort you to defend the City of Rome and my Sepulcher and Temple there against the Incursion of my Enemies g Pro certo confidite memet ipsum c. And know ye for certain that I my self will be present with you to assist you as tho I were present and visible in the Flesh for altho I am absent in the Flesh I am present in the Spirit Now our Lady the Mother of God the Thrones and Dominions and all the Host of Heaven with the Martyrs and confessors of Christ with all obligations possible do adjure you to assist my City and People of Rome with your utmost power and speed h Et ego Petrus in hac Vita c. And I Peter by way of recompence will become your Brother in this life and in the day of Gods strict Judgment prepare Mansions for you in the glorious Kingdom of God the reward of eternal recompence and the Infinite joies of Paradice Nay whatsoever Protections and assistance you will ask I will give you I therefore Conjure you by the most beloved living God that ye permit not my City to be sackt by the Lombards least your Souls and Bodies be likewise torn and tormented in everlasting Fire with the Devil and all his Pestilent Angels i Firmiss tenete quod ego c. Ye must firmly believe that heretofore when you Prai'd unto me I did help and give you Victory over your Enemies by the power of God when you were few in number in comparison of the Enemies of the Church k Ecce chariss fili c. He concludes Behold my dear sons I have warned you if you obey with speed it shall be your great reward and my suffrage shall help you in this life ye shall overcome your Enemies and live long and eat good things and afterwards ye shall inherit Eternal life But if ye make any delay know ye that by the authority of the holy and individual Trinity and by the Apostolical grace given unto me ye shall be alienated for the transgression of this my Exhortation from the Kingdom of God and from life Eternal Phil. I have had the Patience to hear you I pray let me now understand your design in these Instances Theoph. Your Popes are public Persons and you would have them thought to be guided by an infallible Spirit especially in their Buls Epistles and serious agitations not to err And you see what power they ascribe to the Saints departed not only of Interceding but Acting for us and against our enmies And partly from thence your Doctors have taken occasion to instruct the people to invoke them as Patrons and Protectors and Saviours out of trouble Now you have a rare art of Reduction if you can bring all this under the single head of Intercession that they effect these things only by their praiers to God and not by a delegacy of his power to them Phil. It comes all to one if by their praiers they obtain such power to save and to destroy Theoph. Take your suppositions for granted and the case is clear Mean while
in these words h Oratione in Athanasium Do thou graciously look down upon us out of Heaven and direct this Holy People and feed and cherish us in peace and in our conflicts guide and supportus and bring us unto the same state of Glory with thy Self and such Blessed Spirits as are like Thee Theoph. Nazianzen was a great Orator and makes such Apostrophe's severally to the Saints upon whom he made his Panegyrics and yet this will not infer That he did believe they heard him or that he made this Application to them by way of Invocation no more then he did to Julian the Apostate after his decease unto whom he directs his Speech for a whole Leaf together in the close of his second Invective Nay you shall find this Orator somtimes to correct himself by an Epanor thosis in the midst of his Rhetorical Apostrophes in his first Invective against Julian in the words of the Prophet Isaiah he calls upon the Heaven and Earth to hear him a Ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Hear O Heaven and give ear O Earth And then it follows Hear O Soul of Constantius the Great if there be any sense in thee of these inferior things In his Fathers Funeral Oration he saith Now he advantages the Church of God more by his Praiers then before by his Doctrine and Preaching if it be not presumtion to say so And in the Funeral Oration of his Sister Gorgonia he is more expresly doubtful Whether this honor is given to the Saints departed as to be sensible of those things that are spoken of them Phil. b Illudsi non est dubitantis sed affirmant Bellarmin takes notice of such Passages and saith Those ifs are not of one doubting but asserting as when S t Paul said to Philemon If thou count me a Partner receive him as my self ver 17. he did not doubt of Philemons affection Theoph. The Circumstances shew the contrary and Bellarmin offers no proof of his consident Assertion but only because It may be so taken in one place it must be in these If your Doctors groundless Shifts and Answers must go for Oracles you may carry all before you For instance in the first If of Nazianzen in his Apostrophe to Constantius after his decease Hear O thou Blessed Soul of great Constantius If thou hast any knowledg of these things I speak c. Dares Bellarmin suppose that Constantius did hear Nazianzen Or that he was a Blessed Soul in Heaven who was so great a Persecuter of the Orthodox Christians in his life time and Protector of the Arrians and upon this account I much wonder how this Holy Father could make such honorable mention of an Arrian Emperor as to stile him c The most famous of Princes that ever were encreasing the heritage of Christ to his power For his zeal of the Orthodox Faith he is generally stiled Gregory the Divine But here we must reckon him to be a vehement Orator and many of his Sentences must be made good only by some Figures of Rhetoric Hyperbolies Apostrophes and the like Phil. Is this your way to answer the Fathers You formerly severely censur'd this way in Bellarmin when he said Chrysostom in many places spoke like an Orator and do you now fall under the same condemnations Theoph. I have given an answer unto Bellarmins Arguments out of Nazianzen and now I make this necessary Observation to the Reader for greater caution Phil. S t Hilary liv'd in this fourth Century an eminent Bishop in France who in his Commentary upon the 129 Psalm tells us That the Angels are Presidents of Churches Theoph. He brings a strange proof of the Assertion Rev. 2. 3. from the Angels of the Churches of Asia which are generally taken by Interpretors for the Bishops of those Churches and they cannot possibly stand for the Heavenly Powers and Spirits because some Infirmities are imputed to them Rev. 2 ver 4. That the Angel of the Church of Ephesus had left his first love that he should repent and do his first works That the Angel of the Church of Laodicea was luke-warm cap. 3. 16. Phil. I pray give me leave to urge the whole Testimony of this Father he saith We may in a probable sense call the Angels The Eyes of the Lord and his Ears his Hands and his Feet for they are his Ministring Spirits And altho the Divine Nature who knoweth all things need not their information yet our infirmity in Praing to God and deserving his savor needs their Spiritual Intercession Theoph. I pray How doth the Ministery and Intercession of Angels prove the Invocation of Saints Such impertinent Quotations are only brought to fill up the number and weary the Reader Phil. Bellarmin shews how the same Holy Father in Psal 124. speaks alike of the Intercession of the Holy Apostles and Prophets Theoph. True he doth Allegorize the Mountains which stand round about Jerusalem a Nec leve praesidium in Apostolis vel Patriarchis Prophetis vel potius in Ang. to be The guard of Saints or rather saith he of Angels about Gods People But leaving S t Hilaries Allegories I pray observe what the Prophet David adds immediatly As the Mountains stand about Jerusalem so the Lord is round about his People from hence-forth even for ever And Hilary thereupon declares b Benum quidem praesidium Angeli sed melius Dei The safe-guard of the Angels is good but of God much better Mean while here is not one syllable of our Invocation of Saints or Angels but only of their Intercession and Protection And by the way you may take this note along with you That Hilary was as bitter in his Invectives and had as great an Indignation against the Emperor Constantius as you but now heard Gregory Nazianzen did extol him Phil. It is not my work to commit the Fathers I proceed in Bellarmins proofs his next out of S t Ambrose is full and without Exception We must pray unto the Angels who are our Guards and to the Saints and Martyrs whose Patronage we may challenge as being of our own Substance they can intreat for our sins who have washt away their own if any they had with their Blood These are Gods Martyrs and our Bishops Over-seers of our Life and Actions let us not c Lib. de Viduis ultra medium Obsecrandi sunt Ang. c. Obs sunt Martyres Corporis pignora blush to admit these as Intercessors for our infirmities because They when they did overcome were yet sensible of the infirmity of the body Theoph. Saint Ambrose was but a young Divine a novice and Cathechumen when he was chosen Bishop of Millam he was train'd up in Civill affairs pleading Causes as a Deputy of the Country administring justice therfore we have no teason to ground our Faith upon his dictates He speaks often piously but not alwaies Orthodoxly do you allow that passage of his in this very proof
a Qui proprio sanguine laverunt si qua habuerunt peccata The Martyrs if they had any sins have washt them away with their own Blood The Blessed Apostle tells us 1 Joh. 1. The Blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all unrighteousness Immediatly before these words which Bellarmin quotes S. Ambrose hath this passage b Infirma est caro mens aegra ad Medici sedem non potest debile explicare vestigium The flesh is weak the mind sick and feter'd with the chains of sin and so we cannot creep to the Physician but must call upon the Angels and Martyrs c. Where do you read in H. Scripture that the sick to wit the sinner cannot come to Christ the Physitian did he not come to call sinners to invite the weary and heavy laden to come to him and find rest you shall hear other Fathers generally contradicting this Doctrine of Ambrose and the Holy Scripture much more yet this is the usual pretence for Saints Invocation and Intercession That we are unworthy of our selves to draw neer to an Holy God to put up our supplications to him of which more hereafter herein S. Ambrose contradicts what he hath piously commented upon the first chap. of the Epistle to the Rom. in the 4 chap. of his Commentary c Solent miserâ uti excusatione per istos posse ire ad Deum ut per Comites ad Reg. This is the miserable excuse saith he that by Angels and Saints we may have access to God being unworthy of our selves to come unto him as we go to the King by his Courtiers For which he answers d Ideo per Tribunos Comites itur ad Regem quia homo est c. Ad Deum a. promerendum qui omnium novit merita suffragatore opus non est sed mente devotâ Therefore we come to the King by his Tribunes and Officers because the King is a man and must receive information from others but to obtain the favor of God who knoweth all mens deserts we need no suffragants but a devout mind whensoever such a one calls upon Him he will answer him Nothing could be more directly oppos'd to your usuall plea for the Invocation of Saints The same Father in his book de Isaac Anima cap. 5 tells us from the third chap. of Canticles and the third vers e Anima quae Deum quaerit transit custodes enim sunt mysteria quae etiam Ang. concupiscunt videre That a Soul seeking God passeth by the keepers for there are mysteries which the Angels them selves desire to looke into Phil. Do you then follow S. Ambrose's direction in one place and I will take his advise in the other Bellarmin brings the testimony of many other Fathers of the later Ages of the Church and I must confess I am almost tired in following him especially seeing you so dextriously shift him off Gregory Nyssen speaks home to the point in the latter end of his Oration opon Theodorus a Martyr thus We want many benefits doe thou become our Legat with the King of Heaven Thou art not ignorant of humane necessities procure peace for us That we have bin safe and sound hitherto we ascribe it to thee If you want more assistance take in the quire of your Brethren the Martyrs The praiers of many Saints wash away the sins of Nations and People In the like manner he speaks in his Panegyricks of another Martyr Theoph. This is sufficient to your purpose you need look no further But I pray tell me do you take him for an Orator or Divine in these passages Is it possible he should in earnest ascribe the preservation of the Faithfull all along unto this Martyr hope for security from him for the future and never take into consideration the divine protection Is it good Divinity to say That the praiers of the Just wash away the guilt of Nations and People and never mention the Blood of Christ and his effectuall Intercession Phil. That is to be suppos'd as the principall the Blessed Saints may be instrumentall in these Blessings Theoph. What you suppose is one thing and what he expresseth another But it is neither good Philosophie nor Divinity to intitle the effect unto the Instruments and leave out the principall Agent Should I make such an harangue to an Artists Tooles give them all the honor of the excellent work he would reckon me besides my wits and himself put besides his due commendation praise Phil. You ask Questions instead of giving Answers But I have now concluded to favor you and not overlade you with innumerable testimonies The Authority of the later Fathers perhaps you will except against in this point Such as Bede and Anselme Bernard Damascene the Elder I have hitherto produc'd and yet there remaine two of the Greek Church and two of the Latin Church whose Authorities I will urge out of Bellarmin in confirmation of this point then I shall give you respite The Greek Fathers are Chrysostome and Theodoret the Latin Jerom and Augustin Theoph. You have made a noble choise herein you much oblige me whilst your wisdom and your zeal do prompt you to urge the most effectuall testimonies on your side that you determine to let the others passe which cheifly serve to fill up a number Phil. Bellarmin quotes an eminent passage out of a Homil. 66 ad pop Antioch Chrysostom but we easier find it in his 26 Homilie upon the second Epistle to the Corinthians from whence we suppose the Homilie was collected it is in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of that Homilie The words out of Chrysostom are these He that weareth purple goes and salutes the sacred bodies and laying aside his state b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. stands praying unto the Saints that they would appear before God in his behalf He that weareth the Diadem beesecheth the Tent-maker and Fisherman being dead to become his Advocates Theoph. This is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a passage whereunto we find not a second like it in all the works of Chrysostom Bellarmine refers to other pâ—â—ces of this Father but according to his accoustum'd manner without truth and reason It is strange therefore if he were of the opinion the practice in his daies was usual to pray to the Saints before their shrines that any where else he should not speak of it and therefore I must tell you that the originall Greek doth not altogether warrant Bellarmin's translation but equally admits another which will fall short of his proof For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well signifies standing in need of the Saints Intercession as praying for it and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He wants their protection Now we may stand in need and may reap the benefit of the Saints supplications in Heaven for the people of God here on earth yet have no warrant to call upon
our Arguments against your Doctrine We have already shew'd that your Doctors can make no proof or give any assurance that the Saints in Heaven do hear our Praiers and therefore that we should call upon them in vain But yet further as to our thoughts and mental Praiers the Saints cannot discerne them and therefore are not meet Objects of our Invocation Phil. Yes in the glass of the Trinity even mens thoughts may be represented to them Theoph. Never tell me what may be but do you believe they do discerne our though's you know in Scripture to search the hearts and know the thoughts of men is made an incommunicable property of the divine Nature Thou even thou only knowest the hearts of men saith Solomon 1 Kings 8. 39. Phil. To this Bellarmin answers that God only naturally and by hiw own vertue know's mens thoughts but the Saints by Revelation and the beatific Vision Theoph. These are meer Dictates without proof Devices to shift of unanswerable Arguments How can your great Doctor prove that God reveles the thoughts of Men and Women and Children and their mental Praiers to the Saints in Heaven or that they behold them in the Beatifical Vision whereas he is foret to acknowledg that other things are conceled from them for instance neither Angels nor Saints know the day of Judgment Phil. This wise discourse signifies but little For if the Saints in glory cannot difcern nor hear mental Praier let us put up vocal Supplications unto them Theoph. If you cry aloud and they cannot hear you what then however there is more in this consideration then so Would you have the blessed Virgin as soon interceed for Hypocrites as for sincere Christians shall Peter admit you all promiscuously into Heaven such Mediators as you make the Saints ought to be qualified for their high office with a discerning faculty of the sincerity of men's hearts who call upon them and withal when men are speechless upon their death-beds and most need the help of their Fraiers by your last supposition they must go without them Phil. Why is this Argument of not discerning the thoughts of mens hearts of force against the Saints Intercession in Heaven more then against the Intercession and praiers of Saints upon Earth for one another Theoph. Your selves make the wide difference between the Intercession of the Saints in heaven and of the faithful here upon Earth And that shall be the ground of our next Argument against your Invocation of Saints and their Intercession because you make their Mediation much to derogate from the Meditation and Intercession of Christ Phil. That indeed is a material Objection but how do ye prove it a Ibid. Cap. 20. Bellarmin saith expresly We do not call upon the Saints to perform the Offioe of Christ but only that they would assist us with their Praiers the more easily for us to obtain our requests from God thro Christ He acknowledges Christ to be the one only Mediator between God and man by way of Redemption and satisfying the debt and by Nature as being God and man and because he only stands in need of no other Mediator whatsoever others obtain of God either for themselves or others they obtain it thro Christ. Now altho the Saints and Angels do not satisfie for our sins and pay the debt yet they may beseech God for Christs fake to forgive them Theop. If this were all we would not much contend with them about the Saints Intercession as prejudiciall to the Mediation and Intercession of Christ But the Doctrine of your Schools goes further That the Saints intercede for us not only by their Praiers but also by their merits b Sent. l. 4. dist 45. ad finem so Peter Lombard the Mr. of the Sentences Interprets the Act of Intercession We pray to the Saints to Intercede for us i. e. That their merits may become our assistance and Immediately before he saith c Intercedunt merito affectu The Saints interceed with God for us by their Merits whilst their Merits plead for us and by their Love desiring to have our requests granted Bonaventure explains him Altho first he the Saints in glory Non sunt in statu merendi are not in a state of Meriting and are sufficiently recompenc'd for their Merits in this life d In 4. Sent. dist 45. yet because they did supererogate much They have obtain'd such honor by there Merits not only to deserve beatitude and glory for themselves but also to prove suffragans for others so that he who was before unworthy by Praying to the Saints thro their Patronage becomes worthy Now we say that thro the Merits of Christ we who are otherwise altogether unworthy have access with boldness unto the Father and therefore we implore his Patronage and Advocation and Intercession and take him as the only Mediator between God and man and for all this we have the full and express Authority of Gods word Thro Him we have access by one Spirit unto the Father In whom we have boldness and access with confidence thro faith in Him Ephe 2. 18. and 3. 12. Again If any Man Sin we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous e Quia multa supererog suis meritis adepti sunt locum c. and he is the Propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world 1 John 1. 2. Again There is one God and one Mediator between God and Man the Man Christ Jesus who gave himselfe a Ransom for us 1 Tim. 2. v. 5. 6. Phil. I have shew'd above how Bellarmin acknowledgeth Christ to be the one only Mediator by way of Redemtion and solution of the debt but the Saints may be Mediators by way of Intercession Theoph. If you meant only the Intercession of Praiers it were tolerable but your Doctors bring in the intercession of their Merits and that implies satisfaction of the debt at least in some part their Superogation supplying our defect Phil. This refers unto another Point to be discust hereafter touching the Saints Merits and Superogation and therefore we will not now determine it Theoph. Mean while upon your own grosse suppositions you make the Saints so to Interpose with God for us as to Intrench upon the Intercession of Christ who is therefore represented to be our Advocate because He is a propitiation for Sin 1 John 2. 1 2. As our Mediator because He gave himself a Ransom for all 1 Tim. 2. 6. Phil. You may take our Blessed Saviour as the principal in Intercession and satisfaction and the Blessed Saints may come in as Inferiour Advocates and Patrons Theoph. This is the Rock against which your Schole-men generally Ship-wrack Concience First They take all things taught or practis'd in the Church of Rome as infallibly true and then when any thing is objected out of Gods word or the Testimony of the Ancients against them they salve themselves by a