Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	act_n	apostle_n	peter_n	1,298	5	6.9742	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A82528	A friendly debate on a weighty subject: or, a conference by writing betwixt Mr Samuel Eaton and Mr John Knowles concerning the divinity of Iesus Christ: for the beating out, and further clearing up of truth.	Eaton, Samuel, 1596?-1665.; Knowles, John, fl. 1646-1668.	1650 (1650)	Wing E121; Thomason E609_16; ESTC R205964	49,997	66

stead of proof What have you learn'd to measure the knowledge of him who hath receiv'd the spirit without measure cannot he as man know in heaven what things are done in earth Who told you so None but the man Christ Jesus can intercede it being absurd to conceive that God can interede unlesse it might be conceived that God hath a Superiour Now if the man Christ Jesus doth intercede for his Church he knows her state and why he may not know the state of the Church by a communication of power from the Father notwithstanding he be not God and man in one Person is a riddle for the unfolding whereof I would willingly plow with your heifer Thus I take leave of your ninth Instance that I may visit the tenth which because it is of the same value and in that part which I would deny it already answerd'd in my reply to Matth. 28.20 whither I refer you I shall passe it by and be take my self to examine the eleventh which now follows ●●●●nce 11. If Christ be a meere creature then a meere creature is the Judge of the World which is against the Scritpure for the Judg of the World is God before whom Abraham stood in Gen. 18.25 When he pleaded for Sodom Rom. 2.5 6. tho day of judgment is called the day of Revelation of the righteous Judgement of God who will render to every man according to his words Answ Sir this Argument will speak out the midd of this Instance That Doctrine which makes a meer creature the judg of the world is against the Scripture Gen. 18.15 Rom. 2.5 6. But Christ is the judg of the world Therefore that doctrine which makes Christ a meer creature is against the Scripture To your Major take these Answers 1. That in a sense it is false for Christ shall judg the world But you will say he is not a meer creature But what say you to the Apostles were not they meer creatures but what will you say if I shal shew from the word that they shall be judges at the last day see Mat. 19.28 and you shall hear Christ telling Peter that they of the Apostles Who had followed him in the regeneration should sit upon 12 Thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel And are not all the Saints meer creatures Doubtless at that instant when you fram'd this Instance you had not in your mind what Paul speaks in 1 Cor. 6.2 3. Do ye not know saith he that the Saints shall judge world and if the world shall be judged by you are ye unworthy to judg the smallest matters Know ye not that we shall judge Angels 2. That in a sense it is true no creature can be as God is the judg of the world for God is Principal in the judgment being both the Alpha Omega of it deriving his power frō none being the original of al power Thus you may see that your Proposition is and is not true I pray for the future make distinctions where need requires Now for your Minor that Christ is the judge of the world Sure you take this for a granted truth that no proof is brought to confirm it I shall grant it What then Will your design of drawing up the Conclusion prosper nothing less For it hath been brought to light that meer creatures shall be Judges of the world Wherefore if you cannot from evident scriptures demonstrate this That Jesus Christ is Principall in judging the world deriving from none his power of judgment you will doe nothing to purpose But Sir that I may preserve you from such an endless labour I shalll ay down these Propositions which also will spoil your present Market Propos 1. That the most High God who is the worlds Principall judg will not immediately but by a Delegat judg the world In Acts 17.31 the Apostle tels us That God hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained whereof he hath given assurance unto all men in that he hath raised him from the dead In Iohn 5.22 Christ thus speaks The Father judgeth no man but hath committed all Iudgment to the Son Christ must raign till all enemies are put under his feet and when all things shall be subdued to him then shall the Son also himself be subject to the Father that God may be all in all 1 Cor. 15.28 That Jesus Christ is a subordinate Judg in reference unto God the supream Judg but superintendent in reference to the Saints his assessors in judgment That Christ is not the supream Judg is evident from these Scriptures In Acts 10. Peter shews that the Apostles were commanded of God to preach unto the people and to testifie That Iesus Christ is ordained of God to be Iudg of quick and dead Christ when he comes shall be sent Acts 3.20 and shall come in the glory of the Father as Viceroy and Lord Deputy Mat. 16.27 The Father hath given him authority to execute Judgement Io. 5.27 And all that honour which shall be given to him shall be for the Fathers glory Phil. 2.11 J am now to deal with your last Jnstance which is like to deal as unkindly with you as the former If Christ be a meer creature Instance 12 then Prayer to him being now in Heaven is altogether vain and frivolous inasmuch as persons may cry loud long enough before Christ hear them at that distance but the Saints have been wont not onely to pray to God in Christs Name but to pray to Christ directly and immediatly in Acts 7.59 Rev. 22.20 Lord Iesus receive my spirit Come Lord Jesus Answ By the rule of the Gospel we are to pray to God or the Father in the Name of Christ Jesus You have nothing to countenance Prayer to Christ but the two Texts you mention Jf Stephen did pray directly to Jesus Christ his act might be warranted by the visible appearance of Chrise As Lot prayed to the Angel being visible That in the Revelation is no Prayer but an intimation of the Churches desire after Christs coming The like manner of speaking we have Rev. 6.16 which is no Prayer I cannot but look upon that as vain and frivolous which you set as the Walls and Bulwarks of your Argument If Christ were but a meer creature being in heaven we might cry loud and long enough before he could hear us I would only ask you this question whether Christ could not hear as far as Stephen could see Stephen could see from Earth to Heaven though he was but a man What will hinder the Man Christ from hearing as far Thus I have with much brevity though a considerable Volume might have been written concluded my answer to your Instances which are twelve in number after your own reckoning though they might have been fewer by many being branches one of another I have studied to forget your person and endevoured onely to discover the weakness of your arguing Whether I have done any thing to purpose I leave you to be Iudge when with sobriety and impartiality you are capable to examine And so in the midst of my many other occasions I have brought my whole Answer to a full period and have time to say no more but this that my desires are that the God of light and strength would be pleased to enlighten your eyes that you may rightly discern all things and so order your spirit that by modestliness you may breath forth truth in replying to him who is Sir yours whilst you are for the truth FINIS

I shall put this Instance in form of an Argument that the fallacy and insufficiency thereof may the better appear That it is contrary to the Scripture to give Divine worship honour and service to a meer Creature But Divine worship honour and service is by the warrant of the Scripture given to Christ Iesus Rev. 5.12 13 14. Therefoae Christ Iesus is not a meer creature To the Major I shall thus reply 1. I conceive that your expressions having in them some ambiguity need explanation If by Divine worship honour and service you mean that worship honor and service which is in any sense Divine I utterly deny your Proposition as erroneous and unsound For there is no worship honour and service which of right belongs to the creature but is in a sense Divine God being the principall Author and ultimate Center thereof Rom. 13. Eph. 5.7 But if you mean in the strictest sense that worship honour and service which is peculiar unto the most High God then shall I say with you that it is Idolatry and contrary to the Scripture to give it to any creature whatsoever That worship honour and service which is peculiar unto God differs from that which may be yeelded to the Creature partly in the matter but wholly in the manner of it We must pray to God for all things we want and may pray to men for what they can give we must obey God and we must obey men who are set over us by God but we may not worship honour or serve men in the like manner as we doe the most High God who is the Principall and Ultimate Object of all worship honour and service his right thereto being only of himself and he himself being the sole end thereof According to this sense is that command which our Saviour mentions Mat. 4. ●0 to be understood Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve 2. I wonder at this adjection MEER which you have added to creature as if a creature in essence could be more then a meer creature or as if some creature might have as its right and due that honor worship and service which the Scripture doth appropriate to the most High God Sure I am that creatures as creatures are excluded from sharing with GOD in that worship and service which is peculiar to him Now for your Minor That Divine worship honor and service is by Scripture-warrant given to Christ Iesus Answ Sir it is granted that Jesus Christ is the intermediate object of Divine worship honour and service being Gods Viceroy and acting amongst men in his Fathers name which the Scripture you bring helps to confirm But where the Scripture allows worship honour and service to be given to him as the Principall and Vltimate Object thereof is not yet made to appear and therefore the Conclusion may not have liberty to pass as an unquestiouable truth Instance 2 If Christ be a meer creature then it is lawfull and warrantable to beleeve in a meer Creature which is against the tenure of the whole Scripture But it is commanded in reference unto Christ Joh. 14.1 and salvation is annexed to it Jo. 3.36 Instance 3 If Christ be a meer creature then faith in a meer creature can save man which is absurd and grosse and contrary to the Scriptures for Abraham beleeved God and it was accounted to him for Righteousness Rom. 4.3 and so was saving Answ SIR these two instances the one being in respect of the other flesh of its flesh and bone of its bone I have joyn'd together and shall oppose unto these two Propositions which the Scripture will warrant and may suffice for an Answer 1. That that Faith which is needfull and necessary to salvation hath a double object God and the man Christ Jesus Joh. 14.1 the Scripture which you quote bears witness to this as a truth We are to beleeve on him that sent Jesus Christ Joh. 5.24 Verily verily I say unto you saith Christ he that heareth my Word and beleeveth on him that sent me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death to life And also on Jesus Christ that was sent John 6.29 As the Serpent was lifted up in the wilderness so must the Son of man be lifted up that whosoever beleeveth in him should not perish but have everlasting life John 3.14 15. That faith which hath but a single object is not a saving faith It is impossible that men should by a Gospel-light beleeve in God and not in Christ or in Christ and not in God Jesus cryed and said He that beleeveth on me beleeveth not on me but on him that sent me John 12.44 For by the Gospel God appears merciful in the face of Christ Christ appears instrumentall in the hand of God Rom. 4.24 Rom. 10.9 Though in some places but one is expressed yet there the other is clearly imply'd 2. That that Faith which is needfull and necessary to salvation acts in a diverse manner on God and the Lord Christ Jesus It acts towards God as the Principall and Vltimate and towards Iesus Christ as the Secondary and mediate Object of Faith Peter shews that the Saints to whom he wrote did beleeve in God through Iesus Christ and so that God was the Ultimate and Christ the Mediate object of their faith 1 Pet. 1.21 'T is from Gods Commandment that faith in Christ is needfull 1 Iohn 3.23 And 't is from Gods appointment that faith in Christ is saving Joh. 6.4 This is the will of him that sent me saith Christ that every one which seeth the Son and beleeveth on him may have everlasting life Instance 4 If Christ be but a meer creature then a meer creature is the Saviour of men saving them with a mighty and eternal salvation as the Scripture speaks but this is against the whole current of the Gospel which speaks of God our Saviour Tit. 2.10 13. and in many other places Answ Against this your instance I shall levell this Assertion which will be sufficient to discover its weakness and confute it That to affirm Jesus Christ to be the Saviour of men without God or equal with God is contrary to the current of the whole Scripture which doth distinguish God from Christ in the work of Salvation calling him a Saviour as distinct from Christ as in the 1 Tim. 1.1 where God is said to be our Saviour and the Lord Jesus Christ to be our hope and in the Text you alleadge and frequently elsewhere And in that the Scripture doth prefer God in the work of Salvation before our Lord Jesus Christ making God to be the principal Agent therein when it declares that the work of Christ in saving men was from the purpose of God who appointed him for it and from the Precept of God who injoyned him to it and from the Presence of God who assisted him in it all which from the Scriptures might be abundantly set forth