Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	acknowledge_v	church_n	true_a	1,336	5	5.6741	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16643	A plaine confutation of a treatise of Brovvnisme, published by some of that faction, entituled: A description of the visible Church In the confutation wherof, is shewed, that the author hath neither described a true gouerment of the Church, nor yet proued, that outward discipline is the life of the Church. Whereunto is annexed an ansvvere vnto two other pamphlets, by the said factioners latelie dispersed, of certaine conferences had with some of them in prison. Wherein is made knowen the inconstancie of this sect, what the articles are which they still maintaine: as also a short confutation of them. There is also added a short ansvvere vnto such argumentes as they haue vsed to proue the Church of England not to be the Church of God.	Alison, Richard, controversialist.	1590 (1590)	STC 355; ESTC S100153	67,007	148

faction crie out that the true church is without spot or wrinkle or grosse pollution take libertie to slaunder those that are in authoritie so to free themselues from all submission affirme that the Sacraments are no Sacraments Whervpon though the renuer of this schisme Browne I meane did not in plaine wordes require a baptising againe yet their succossors in their established Church attempted it haue taught that they being the Lordes free people the magistrate is not to deale in causes ecclesiasticall holde that men are not to be compelled to good duties binde one another with a vow to persist in this faction boast of suffrings c. yet detest the name of Donatisme though Donatus was the first deuiser of Brownisme though Brown was the only restorer of these fansies The forerunners it should seeme were grosse when their Disciples are ashamed to be accounted their schollers yet if anie grossenesse as yet vnnamed either in matters of faith or manner of dealing be found in them it will appeare in these also for it is no new fansie but an ancient heresie neither is there hope that they will be restrained but by an olde remedie For as the Donanists when councels were called conference was had and they were conuicted yet gaue it out with great glorie that they had put to silence all the learned and remained wilfull vntill that by the sharp laws of Honorius they were restrained yea and many of them by that meanes were brought againe to the Church so with our men all gentle meanes haue bene vsed in conference hard speeches haue onelie helped them yet remaine they obstinate and brag of victorie if the lawes of our christian Honorius doe them no good they are incurable No doubt the Phisition is irke some to a frantique person and a father to an vnrulie child the one in binding the other in striking and both in louing The dutie of a phisition and the nature of a father must appeare in the magistrate not in satisfieng the desires of the froward to cōtent them but in restraining their phrensie to profite them It may bee to the discontentment of some that anie punishment should be inflicted vpon them for their disordered stubburnnes I would not be mistaken I wish it not howsoeuer m. Greenwood affirmeth that the magistrate ought to compell vnto the hearing of the word Only this I saie that the lesse these matters are cōsidered of the better may the men be conceiued of but view their writings examine their doctrine and marke their dealings and they will appeare the open enemies of Gods truth for in pretending to establish a church they ouerthrowe the church and vnder the colour of setting vp the discipline of Christ they seeke to plague themselues and others with their owne dreams which in this their treatise of discipline and in their two other treatises of certaine conferences lately by them published shall bee made manifest to the indifferent reader In answering of them al onelie the calumniations in the conferences excepted which concerne some particular persons whose cause I leaue to themselues who best know how farre they are abused and in regorde thereof can best answere the same I haue followed the authors method leauing the man and seeing into the matter not regarding who wrote it but what is the doctrine that is maintained by him As for the treatise of the visible Church it will appeare not tollerable inasmuch as it is impious abusing the Scripture iniurious to the Church in describing a false gouernment and daungerous to the simple who are readie to bee deceiued with euerie blast of vaine doctrine The other discourses are not onely like vnto it but haue in them many bitter speeches vngodlie slanders both of Church Magistracie Ministerie and all wherby it seemeth that the author hath not learned to rule his pen. In this mine attempt I haue small hope to satisfie those that are wedded to their will when Gaudentius was answered sufficientlie to his follies hee would notwithstanding returne his aunswere though he did the same nulla ratione respondens sed magis se nec respondere nec tacere potuisse declarans If our author wil replie let him labour to be vnlike to Gaudentius and his companie who with words and bitter speeches sought to vphold their cause if he vse the Scriptures let him applie them faithfully and then if he preuaile the controuersie will be at end In the meane while if these poore labours of mine might satisfie these discontented persons or failing hereof might staie the ignorant from beeing seduced or else might prouoke them that are better able to deale more substantially in these matters I shal be glad Finally I am to intreate the reader both to accept in good part that which in desire of his good is deliuered And also before hee beginne to reade this treatise to amend such faultes as by default in the printing were committed R. A. Faultes escaped in the printing The 2. pag. line 21. This read Thus. pag. 5. li. 5. read the sentence pag. 9. line 24. reade preaching pag. 13. in the margent Iudg. 4 reade Iude. 4. pag. 23. line 12. read Veliphnei Iehouah ijshpok c. pag. 30. line 14. dutie reade vnitie pag. 40. in the margent reade Bale in Apoc. 2. Iraeneus c. pag. 65. line 25. reade were not in the primitiue c. pag. 99. Tit. 3. is to bee placed line 11. and line 19. should be Deut. 13. pag. 108. line 28. reade for instruction onely c. pag. 110. line 23. reade Inst. lib. 4. c. pag. 117. line 2. reade ignorantiam A PLAINE CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE OF Brownisme published by one of that Faction the Title whereof is this A true Description out of the word of God of the visible Church The Answere to the Title THE departure out of the Church is rightly called the badge of an heretike to whom in his going out the Goates do flie for succour when the sheepe of Christ do seeke their foode in the Church of Christ. But because it is a lesser burthen to beare the marke then to haue the name of an heretike it falleth out that men in all ages when they forsake the fellowshippe of the saintes of GOD they doe professe a betaking themselues vnto the true Church of God Heerevppon it commeth that such as haue beene nourished with the milke of discontentment strengthened with the spirite of vnquietnesse and cloathed with the profession of a godlie conscience do now trouble and molest vs refuse to continue with vs and make a nullitie of our Church Their eyes they say are now opened who liued vntill nowe in blindnesse they haue found out the true Church whereof they labour to be members in seeking our good they publish and set sorth vnto vs a true description thereof and this shall bee confirmed out of the word of God This their knowledge their loue and their faithfull dealings are warranted vnto vs

in the Title of this their treatise which matters if we can finde therein we will acquite them from schisme and heresie but if the discourse be not answerable vnto the Title they must returne vnto vs or else wee must acknowledge them to be not as they pretend but as they are Brownist As there is but one God and father of all one Lord ouer all and one Spirite so is there but one truth one faith one saluation one Church called in one hope ioyned in one profession guided by one rule euen the word of the most high The answere In this first sentence which heere is sette dovvne wee are giuen to vnderstande what there is to bee hoped for in that which followeth both for the matter and also for the manner of handling the matter if wee do but regarde the ende and scope thereof being altogither false yet packed vp with euident truthes that the certaintie of these might free the other of suspition The manner of dealing is to pester the margent with a cloud of witnesses to smal purpose onely they make the ignorant beleeue that he which gain-saith this booke doth speake against the word of God But how vainly this is done it will appeare by the examination of the particulars Seeing the nature and gouernment of the church say they is like vnto the Lord thereof it must be granted that as God is euer one and the same so is his church which professeth one truth holdeth one faith and is guided by that order which God hath reuealed in his word Our answere is that we do acknowledge one God the father sonne holy ghost his truth our faith and the meanes of our saluation to be vnchangeable we confesse likewise one catholike church which is the communion of saints which iointly and seuerally do confesse that saluation is obtained in and through Iesus Christ alone This church comprehendeth in it both angels and men the one sort continuing in the other sort restored vnto that estate wherein they stand and all obtaining this sentence of being perfitly righteous in and thorough the head of that church whereof they are members euen Iesus Christ our Lord. This is the church which they say must be guided by one rule euen the word of the most high Now we desire to know in what sence the word of the most high is taken for if they meane thereby the prouidence of God in which sence it is sometimes taken as Deut. 8. 3. Heb. 1. 3. we do agree in this clause also But the places quoted in the margent do shew that it is meant of the reuealed will of God contained in his word For Deut. 6. 25. Moses telleth the Israelites that the obseruing of all the commandements of the Lord their God wil be their righteousnes Paul Rom. 10. 8. saith that the worde of God was in their mouth in their hart euen the word of faith which vvas preached Againe 2. Tim. 3. 15. hee sheweth Timothie that the scriptures are able to make him wise vnto saluation thorough the faith that is in Christ Iesus Christ in the eight Chapter of Iohn and the one and fiftith verse affirmeth that if a man keepe his vvorde he shall neuer see death Lastly Iohn saith 1. Iohn 2. 3. By this vve knovv that vve know him if we keepe his commandements It is euident that these places do speake of the word of God which is giuen vnto vs to be our guide in this life for the gathering togither of the saints during their abode in this world but when life ceaseth the vse of this word of God doth cease in the Church of God as appeareth in the first to the Corinthians the thirteenth chapter and eight verse Colossians the first chapter and the three and twentith verse c. Therefore to say that the whole church that is both angels in heauen the faithfull departed out of this life and the godly remaining vpon the earth are all alike gouerned by this rule doth bewray either a foule ignorance or a foolish rashnesse VVhich rash ignorance if in this one matter it had shewed it selfe onely it had bene more tollerable then it can be when it alledgeth manie scriptures to prooue the truth so vnseasonablie as here it doth about the vnitie of the Godhead c. For the two first places the first chapter of Genisis and the first verse the twentith Chapter of Exodus and the third verse do mention God in regard of his soueraigntie ouer all things but they speake of him as the inheritour of mount Sion his Church wherefore that of saint Paul in the first to Timothie the second chapter and fourth verse might haue bene sufficient both for the proofe of this and also that there is but one truth one faith c Vnto the knowledge whereof it is the will of God that men should come and be saued By the way obserue that this place of Paul doth crosse that negatiue of theirs We denie say they that you are able to iustifie that faith which they beget their reason is because our worshipping of God is not ioyned with their discipline for we hold that faith which Paul approueth As for the testimonie which Paul giueth of Epaphroditus that he is his brother companion in labor and fellow souldier It is a weake proofe of that whereunto it is referred so is that of the Iewes saying that they haue all one father euen God which Christ denyeth vnto them in the verse next following These things are spoken not to call that into question which in it selfe is true but to shew what discretion hath bene vsed in the choise and alledging these scriptures But we will go forward Brownist This Church as it is vniuersally vnderstood containeth in it all the elect of God that haue ben are or shall be The answere Most certaine it is that the inuisible Church of God extendeth it selfe vnto all the beloued of God that haue bene are or shall be men and Angells beeing complete in him who is the head of all principalities and powers to wit Iesus Christ. VVe do agree herein yet it hath his warrant such as it is for it is here proued by the couenant made with Abraham Gen. 17. and by the vision of Iohn Reuel 7. 9. VVhich places do not proue the matter in as much as they speake of the restoring and preseruation of man onely and not of the whole bodie of the church The other three places alledged are lesse to purpose Peter 1. Pet. 1. 2. writeth vnto the church which was scattered ouer the face of the earth so that he speaketh not of the vniuersall church of God but of that which was in his age Paul saith 1. Cor. 10. 3. that the fathers did eate one spirituall meat But they were not the vniuersall church of God he speaketh only of those that were before him Christ prayeth for his Apostles Ioh. 17. 20. and not for them