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A54558 The Petition of the six countries of South-wales, and the County of Monmouth presented to the Parliament of the common-wealth of England, for a supply of ministers in lieu of those that have been ejected. Powell, Vavasor, 1617-1670.; England and Wales. Parliament. 1652 (1652) Wing P1836; ESTC R8119 13,309 33

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in all Flint-shire Lastly For the Tithes they were and are tendred unto the Parishioners but some are either so Malignant or fearfull of their priest that they would not nor dare not to take them in severall parishes they are set to the owners at a reasonable rate but the value of them because things are so cheap and the people much disaffected thereto much fallen these things will be affirmed to be true and I will ingage my self upon the word of a Christian and a Gospell Minister to maintain the same Yours in the Lord Valuesor Powel The Answer to the preceding Letter Sir IN the front of one of the Diurnals lately come to my hands I found a frontlesse Letter or invective of yours against that much-talked of Petition of South-Wales that had been long since presented to the Parliament wherein you charge the said Petition and Petitioners with abominable lies falsities and scandals against godly men and their proceedings 1 This is boisterous and bold language and these words are not like those of St. Paul the words of Truth and Soberness Act. 26.15 If the Petitioners had been so pusillanimous and so poor-spirited as to have deserted their Petition as you did by your menaces indeavour to make them or if they had failed to justify and make good the Charge therin contained you might have had some cause to be thus violent and to spend your usuall Artillery even bitter words but since maugre all opposition and discouragements they stand to what they have don and like worthy conscientious Gentlemen doe prosecute their pious desires and intentions declared in the said Petition I hope all sober heads will suspend their judgements touching that Pet while you spend yours so freely and rather incline to believe that a Pet proceeding from 7 whole Counties and subscribed by above 15000 hands of persons engaged and well affected to the present State and government was not framed and prosecuted without very good grounds and reasons But for the honest proceedings you speak of we have but your word and single testimonie for their honestie as yet the generall exclamations and great thoughts of heart among the Inhabitants of those respective Counties seem to me to argue the Contrary And some of your own Commissioners that went along with you a good while in the simplicitie of their hearts and who were not so sharp sighted as to see into the bottom of your designs at first have now deserted you and joyned with the Petitioners in presenting the said Petition to the Parliament and others of their Colleagues that did not goe along with it to the House went along with it in their hearts and wished it good luck in the name of the Lord. 2 But to justifie these proceedings further you tell us of the great paines you have taken to converse with the Commissioners both of North-wales and South-wales and to examine their proceedings we can bear you witnesse that you took no small pains in travelling those Countreys like a Spirituall post or a Knight errant to encounter this terrible Petition perswading some by fair words to call back their hands from that lying Petition that was your style and like another Saul breathing out threatnings against others menacing them with sequestration ruin This petition tossed you much in the saddle and made you sit very uneasie ever since it came to light which shewes that all is not well and sound in your proceedings nor so honest as you seeme to make them all is not gold that glisters nor are all Saints that arrogate that name and Title 3 In the next period you present your friends with the fruits of your labours Apostolicall excursions in to those Countreys some hundreds and thousands of people have been Converted in Wales since that new Engin for the propagation of the gospell was brought in thither Converted these were your suggestions of old to the Parliament that your Countrey men were no better then Pagans and Infidells and stood in need of being converted to the Faith But let me tell you Sir that the Inhabitants of those parts were neither Jewes Turkes nor Pagans before your Holines came thither but were as good Christians every whit as they are now and I may say better For they had Sermons far more frequently and used to observe the Lords-Day with more piety and reverence than now they do Sabbatum aurei vituli for now they make it but a Brutish Sabbath and distinguish it from other dayes but by mere abstaining from their daily labours which is not a Holy sanctified rest but a Sabbath of Beasts and not of men There be strangers enough that have travailed those Countries that can bear witness to this sad Trueth and seriously lament it But perhaps you mean another sort of conversion to wit to Popery and herein we can beare you witness that many hundreds have been converted since you came to Raigne and since the Ministers have been cast out who did carefully guard their Flocks from Romish Wolves and Foxes For these have made as great a Harvest in those parts of late as you have and do seduce as fast as you we heare of whole Parishes fallen off that way For the people of Wales in the generall have so much aversnes to your loose and fanatick waies that they choose rather to go to Rome then to Bedlam And for this reason I know none that are greater Enemies to the said Petition and restitution of the able Ministers than the Papists and your self 4 For your Character of the Commissioners that most of them are really Godly we will not gainsay you but wish they may approove themselves so when their Actions shall be scanned yet that many of them had their judgements captivated by fair pretences and been seduced to go along with you appeares by their serious remorse and retractations which we have touched before Praestat recurrere quàm malè currere and I wish the rest would be so godly as to follow so good a president But that none of them have taken any of the Church Revenue into their hands I think you will not be a Compurgator for any of them we can tell you of one Commissioner that resolved not to Act or concurre with you in the extirpation of the Ministry if he might not have some Tithes into his hands he would not be evill for nought or sell his conscience for nothing and accordingly he hath been a parson of two good Benefices ever since we can name others that have bought lands and built houses since they had the handling of these Revenues who before times were so low that they never had such immodest hopes as to amend themselves so well and so fast as they have done 5 Having used your Target to defend your Commissioners you now draw your sword against your formidable Enemies those Things in black the Ministers whom you have routed and rooted out They were say you most of them either
Un-preaching Curats or scandalous men in their lives or had administred some accursed oath to the people But in sober sadnesse Sir did you eject none else we could name you hundreds that you have deprived the Church of God of the benefit and comfort of their labours that had neither administred any oathes neither were Un preaching Curats nor were any way scandalous in their lives But their lives and labours did expresse as much power of godliness quietly in their proper spheares as any of your tinkling cymballs or wandring and foolish fires If the Parliament were pleased to goe down that is in their power and authority to those Countries and see whether you have done altogether according to the crie of it which is come up unto them Gen. 19.21 If they were pleased to grant Commissions to examin who and what persons you have cast out of gods vineyard and upon what score your actions would appear as odious to all the world as now they doe to them that know you It seemes you had not room and scope enough to rule except like the great Ottoman you killed all your Brothers that you might rule and reign alone 6 But for to satisfie all honest men and to shame your Adversaries you promise an exact account from South-Wales If you desire to satisfie the one or to shame the other let mee advise you as a friend not to smoother your Accounts but let men see them and see how you have disposed of neer 20000 l. per annum for two years and a half For if your Accounts must be received onely in grosse without the particulars received by an implicit faith without farther examination as wee hear they must you and your friends may passe for Godly men still Howsoever the Petitioners doe humbly conceive that they have performed the office of honest and faithfull men to the State in presenting to their notice and cognizance what a vast Revenue they have been defrauded of are like to be stil defeated and they seem to all indifferent and dis-interessed persons to deserve thanks from the State and countenance and encouragement against all affronts For if they miscarrie in this petition and their hopes be blasted therein they resolve to make no such attempts any more but will study to serve the Parliament in some more acceptable way 7 But in the next Paragraph you tell us of the Ministers and School-masters of North Wales with their number and qualitie as though you had been at a late muster of them indeed the Scean of your discourse lyes most in that countrey this is lapwing-like to crie farr from the nest you give an account of North-Wales to confute a Petition from South-Wales Here you are out of the reach of my pen because the places are out of the road of my acquaintance But for your School masters in North-Wales if they be like those you have placed in South-Wales they are fitter to goe to School then to keep any as the countryes are most deeply sensible thereof 8 But here is some good newes from Flintshire Here are but two Ministers ejected in all truely they had better luck then their fellowes we can tell you of some other Counties in lieu of this where you have not left above two to stand in all and of others where you have not allowed of above 3 or 4 Itinerants to instruct neer three score and ten parishes some whereof are very large and populous and were supplied lately with very able godly Ministers that had been trained up in the Schooles of the Prophets and were skilfull in dividing the word of god aright and were instruments of conveying goodnesse and grace to many a poor soul in their respective charges for by my vicinitie to those countryes and my often sallies upon occasion to those parts I have reason to know them well But the Itinerants that are come in their roome are such men that though they presume to be Teachers yet have need to be taught themselves which are the first principles of the oracles of God and if men had a designe to bring preaching into contempt and derision they could not have thought of a more effectuall course then by setting up such men to preach for they have set up such mock-teachers that will be glad of 10 l. per annum though their Masters may set upon their score large reckonings to be accounted to the State as they will doe for their School-masters likewise But how well contented men are with your Propagation in North-Wales may appear by this ensuing presentment made by the Grand-Jury of Montgomery-shire at the last great Sessions held for that County The presentment of Montgomery-shire was as following April 1. 1652. WEE the Grand Jury of the County of Montgomery being upon our oathes doe discover and represent to your Lordships the complaints and aggrevances thereof In the first place out of our duty to Almighty God and in obedience to the present Government we make bold to signifie to your Lordships that the most Generall and allmost universall complaint amongst us is the want of able Ministers to supply our parish Churches being 47 which are left vacant upon the Lords day without any known preacher to officiat in them But in lieu of the said 47 and most of the rest lately questioned there are a few illiterate poor Tradesmen set up and countenanced without any just pretence or fitting qualifications to instruct the Congregations so that by meanes hereof the gospell as we conceive is so farr from being Visibly propagated among us according to the meaning of the late Act that it is much feared if a remedy be not timely applied it is rather in a way of declining which wee crave your Lordships assistance seasonably to prevent Two foremen of the Grand-Jury Ga. Win Will. Kyffin c. We could produce the like if need were from Denbighshire put up at the Great Sessions held for that County at the same time You conclude with Tithes that delicate morsell which is fit for the mouths of your creatures onely which you tell us were and still are tendred to the Parishioners But they have a kind of an odd squeamish conscience that few of them will meddle with them as you complain You made an Order of late as I am told since this Petition was set on foot to make offer of the Tithes to the Parishioners to avoyd envie and exclamations Before that none but your Favorits must eat of the holy things and live of the altar The poor ejected Parsons must have no share nor portion in them though they offered more rent than any others payed for them and offered good security for the payment But wee need not marvell that they could not have their Tithes when they could not have their Glebes upon rent nay their very fifts denied them though allowed by the Act for Propagation which being accounted according to the undervaluations made by the Sequestrators and their Agents