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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33979	A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way.	1680 (1680)	Wing C5343; ESTC R18940	53,644	120

Reading the Scripture Singing of Psalms Prayers and Adlocutions These he will have to be Biddings of Prayer the Deacons saying Let us pray then telling them what they should pray for So then Preaching was no part of the Sabbath-days Service which I should rather understand by Allocutiones considering that there is a book called Dies Dominica so abundantly proves it and we have such plentiful proof of it from Chrysostome Justin Martyr c. But a thing never thought on by Christ or his Apostles Bidding of Prayer that forsooth must be made one of the parts of the Sabbath-service Most ridiculous But in all this good Reader consider what little of proof there is besides the Authors Questionless and without doubt Cyprian speaks of solemn things Offices he puts in and are there no solemn things but Prayers made by forms He hath sursum corda And do not those who pray by no forms ordinarily begin with Let us lift up our hearts to God Cyprian saith they pray continually and earnestly and might they not do so without a book Origen saith they used Prayers appointed but doth he say the words they should use in those prayers were also set and appointed them Origen reciteth a form of three lines and he might for ought we know or say to the contrary both make it and use it but is it proved that the Church generally used that form His interpretation of the Petitions mention'd by Tertullian as part of the solemn Service of the Sabbath to be Collects is a new whimsi of our Authors and I think his Exposition of Tertullians sine Monitore is as new and precacious for Tertullian's preces delegatae they signified all the prayers which the Congregation put up to God by their Ministers delegated and instructed to speak to God in the name of all the people who upon this account by Greg. Naz. is said to have had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a kind of Mediatorship between God and man he being the peoples mouth unto God There was then in the Church-Meetings but one voice heard 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Chrysostome Homil. 36. in 1 Cor. That is There ought never to be but one voice in the Church He that readeth readeth alone and the Bishop saith he is in the mean time silent He that sings sings alone and when all sing together 't is all as one voice c. Our Author in the last place spends much Paper upon a quotation from Justin Martyr It is too long to transcribe p. 62. he comes to his Collections from it 1. He saith the Catechumeni were taught to pray the congregation of believers praying with them he would have them taught to pray by the Deacons admonishing them to pray Admonishing whom did they think we admonish those not admitted yet into Church to pray in the solemn Assembly of the Believers Surely the latter and they told them the general matter of Prayer This certainly concludes they had no stated forms of words which they used and might use no other So fair a proof is this 2. In the next place he collecteth that the Catechumeni did in a form make confession of their faith What is this to the purpose 3. In the third place he gathers from Justin Martyr that the Catechumeni were brought from the water to the congregatiou and Sermon ended they went jointly to prayer So then they had a Sermon and prayers after it but how doth it appear this was by a form of words from which they might not vary Questionless saith our Author it is pretty that he should think his Questionless should make a good argument But he hath found the form in Clements Constitutions a book not heard of 300 years after Clements death out of what hole soever it is now come All he saith else is no more to the purpose than that Prayers being ended they saluted one another with an holy kiss they received the Sacrament and prayed again and praised God in a copious and large manner by their Minister And these prayers being concluded the people jointly cryed out Amen What proof there is for forms of prayer comes out of the forged Constitutions of Clement and this Authors strong fancy not out of Justin Martyr and our Author p. 62. confesseth Justin Martyr tells us no such things but yet he saith They did it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Cyril he talks of as so ancient was an Author lived near 500 years after Christ and was not like to know so exactly what was done in Justin Martyrs time Any writer now would be lookt on to give a very incertain account of what was done in England Anno 1200. nor would any give much credit to what he should write It is a great vanity men have when they are eager of a thing to fancy all they meet with to look that way if they do but see a word or a letter or two of that nature I knew a Dignitary of our Church who was strongly conceited against the Morality of the Sabbath and therefore was engaged to put another sense upon the fourth Commandment or to leave us but Nine Moral Precepts in the Decalogue He at last finds in Origen and Epiphanius a place or two where Christ was call'd The great Sabbath and presently writes a book about a new 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mightily triumphing That he had found out Gospel in the midst of the law The sense of that Commandment was nothing else but remember to sanctifie the Name of Jesus Christ When alas the old Fathers meant no more than that Christ in whom alone is rest for our souls was typified by the holy day of rest appointed by the law and though Christ be our rest our great rest yet he is not a day of rest which is that which the Commandment only speaketh of Just so I observe it is in this Controversie Some men are so mightily zealous for stated and universally imposed forms of prayer that where-ever in any of the Ancients they meet with the words Liturgy Offices Common-prayers Prayers solemn Services they presently think they have a full proof for forms of prayer composed by others to be used by all Ministers When as alas there 's nothing more weak and ridiculous and these arguments speak nothing of reason but only a fancy disturb'd by unreasonable passion A Liturgy signifies nothing but an order of Ministration in holy things which may be without one form of prayer only directing the time or times when the Ministers shall pray Offices in the ancients signifies no more than Duties The approbation of the term Offices to forms of prayer to be used at Burials Christnings c. is but a very modern Popish Device to suggest to silly souls that Ministers did not do their duties if they did not use their Missals and Rituals c. and surely Prayers and solemn Services may be without forms and so may Common prayers too I am the more confirmed in this by what our

the most orthodox people and it would be enquired in England at this day whether there be more Socinians Pelagians and Papists amongst those that adore the Liturgy or amongst those who have no kindness for that or any other Let but the understanding Reader judg of all the rest he saith by the truth of this In the next place he saith it cannot be denied but Liturgies were in use in St. Basils and St. Chrysostomes time generally who were about 380 years after Christ and why cannot this be denied because he saith Liturgies are extant under their names This learned argument will prove that there were also Liturgies in St. Marks St. Peters St. James and St. Andrews time for there are Liturgies out also under their names yet this is all this Author hath to say why no body should deny what he saith as if there were not 100 books extant under the names of the Ancients which not only Rivet and Cocus amongst the Protestants but Possevine Sixtus Senensis Erasmus and Bellarmine amongst the Papists have denied to be theirs men all as learned as our Author I have before shewed that the Liturgies going under their names could not be theirs The noble and learned Lord of Mornay whom our Author sometimes speaks highly of l. 1. de missa cap. 6. saith Liturgies has omnes falsi postulo I charge all these Liturgies as false In both of them as was said before is the hymn 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which came 200 years after into the Church in both Confessors are mentioned whose names were not known of many years after in both the Virgin Mary is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a term not admitted in common use till after the Council at Ephesus 436. In both of them there is Incensing Many other reasons the Reader may find in Morney in the Chapter before quoted c. But faith our Author Though we do not think that these are the very same which they used because later ages have defaced them and foisted many heterogeneous things into them yet 't is Ridiculous to imagine that St. Basil and St. Chrysostome did not compile any or that nothing of these was of their composing And what if they did compile some doth it therefore follow that they required all Ministers in their Diocesses to use them But the truth is this is a ridiculous argument to prove they compiled any because some go under their names and a ridiculous answer to men proving the forgery of those pretended Liturgies from the use of terms not known in their Ages of rites mentioned in them which confessedly came not in of hundreds of years after they were dead and of Prayers found in them for a Pope and an Emperor that lived 500 years after they were dead I say it will appear to answer all this a most silly and ridiculous trifling to tell us It is true some things are foisted in since but 't is manifest they made Liturgies and some parts of those Liturgies How is it manifest Good Reader observe what possibility of proof there is that these men made no such Liturgies if this will not it lyes upon them to prove they did make some They produce Copies divers Copies we peruse them and find 1. That no two of them agree each with other 2. That the Doctrine in the Copies is contrary to the Doctrine of those times 3. That there is in them Prayers for men that lived 500 years after they were dead 4. That there are in them many rites and modes of worship not known of hundreds of years after they were both dead But yet saith our Author ' t is Ridiculous to think these Fathers did not make Liturgies or that nothing of these was of their composing yea 't is ridiculous to assert any thing in them was of their composing for what is there to prove it Those parts which the Papists and some Protestants say are foisted in come to us upon the same Tradition that the other parts do What one thing is there in any of these Liturgies which none but Basil or Chrysostome could be the Author of If others might be the Authors and that 500 years after how doth it appear that Basil or Chrysostome must we are sure they were no Authors of a great part what but a foolish fancy can make us believe they were the Authors of any part of them But the truth is this is the Papists answer My Lord of Morney quotes Espenceus de missa privata p. 220. It was saith the Jesuit Leo Thuscus that wrote the Scholion of the Priests communicating alone he lived in the year 1170 and was Secretary to Emanuel the Great Emperour and Interpreter to Trithemius Did not he make the whole Liturgy and had respect rather to his own times than Chrysostomes Which saith he I mind you of not that I think that Missal unworthy of Chrysostome or the Greek Church or do otherwise suspect it but think it began and composed by a most holy man and enlarged by putting in many things according to the variety of times As much might be said for the Antiquity of the Alcoran in which are many things of Primitive truth though Mahomet hath put in a world of fooleries and wickedness and doubtless the whole is of no Primitive authority though there be much Primitive truth in it From hence our Author rises higher to tell us of St. James and St. Marks Liturgies and Clements Constitutions for the two first I have said enough before For Clement chuse Reader whether thou wilt believe the D. of Somersets Chaplain or Eusebius and Hierome who lived above 400 years after Christ and knew of no such book as Clements Constitutions see Eusebius l. 3. cap. 32. See also what Morney saith of this l. 1. de missa p. 46. cap. 2. He that will believe all in Bibliotheca patrum hath more faith than I have or any Protestant can have But he will at last come to authentick Testimonies that will satisfie any indifferent man p. 56. if compared with the Liturgies that is with the forgeries aforementioned that such and such forms were used by Christians in the first ages and so that in all probability they were directed by the Apostles or Apostolical men Vsed is not enough if he could prove it they must be universally used or required to be universally used But let us hear what proof he hath Cyprian speaks of solemn Offices solemnibus adimpletis that must be understood of customary forms of Prayer and why because he elsewhere hath sursum corda Lift up your hearts We lift them to the Lord. In another place he saith they prayed for several things continually and earnestly and these he saith no doubt were charitable forms used in Morning and Evening-Service Origen saith they used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 appointed Prayers Origen quotes a form of three lines Questionless this was in the Alexandirian Liturgy Tertullian mentions Dominica solemnia and tells us of four parts of it