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rest_n bishop_n church_n presbyter_n 2,348 5 10.4986 5 false
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A27046 A third defence of the cause of peace proving 1. the need of our concord, 2. the impossibility of it, on the terms of the present impositions against the accusations and storms of, viz., Mr. John Hinckley, a nameless impleader, a nameless reflector, or Speculum, &c., Mr. John Cheny's second accusation, Mr. Roger L'Strange, justice, &c., the Dialogue between the Pope and a fanatic, J. Varney's phanatic Prophesie / by Richard Baxter. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1681 (1681) Wing B1419; ESTC R647 161,764 297

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excommunicate_v king_n offer_v we_o as_o a_o test_n or_o why_o be_v there_o never_o any_o such_o difference_n between_o we_o and_o the_o prelatist_n pretend_v try_v we_o whether_o we_o will_v not_o subscribe_v in_o this_o to_o as_o much_o as_o the_o prelatist_n ever_o do_v agree_v on_o or_o ordinary_o hold_v and_o lay_v our_o liberty_n upon_o it_o and_o spare_v not_o but_o i_o remember_v you_o nibble_v before_o at_o my_o word_n in_o differ_v of_o magist_n and_o pastor_n power_n thes_n 60._o p._n 38._o as_o if_o i_o have_v say_v that_o unless_o perhaps_o in_o some_o rare_a case_n king_n may_v not_o be_v excommunicate_v a_o calumny_n when_o i_o annex_v those_o word_n of_o exception_n only_o to_o the_o excommunicate_v of_o parent_n but_o your_o way_n be_v still_o equal_a and_o i_o give_v even_o moral_a reason_n against_o excommunicate_a king_n and_o parent_n but_o when_o you_o in_o swear_v will_v put_v who_o know_v how_o many_o exception_n to_o express_v universals_z must_v i_o after_o all_o this_o be_v at_o your_o mercy_n unless_o i_o will_v say_v that_o in_o no_o rare_a case_n a_o pastor_n may_v excommunicate_v his_o own_o parent_n what_o if_o the_o rare_a case_n be_v 1._o that_o he_o be_v but_o one_o in_o a_o presbytery_n subject_a to_o a_o bishop_n and_o his_o parent_n be_v as_o open_a apostate_n as_o julian_n and_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o presbytery_n require_v he_o to_o concur_v in_o their_o excommunication_n 2._o what_o if_o the_o king_n command_v a_o bishop_n to_o excommunicate_v a_o magistrate_n or_o parent_n for_o treason_n must_v he_o needs_o be_v disobey_v 3._o what_o if_o god_n shall_v send_v a_o angel_n or_o prophet_n with_o a_o particular_a message_n so_o to_o do_v i_o be_o sure_a that_o case_n be_v rare_a enough_o and_o i_o dare_v not_o disobey_v but_o it_o be_v hard_a please_v some_o man_n §_o 45._o semper_fw-la idem_fw-la 1._o but_o will_v you_o give_v it_o under_o your_o hand_n as_o a_o lesson_n to_o your_o flock_n that_o a_o minister_n may_v not_o gainsay_v another_o for_o slander_v christian_n who_o in_o any_o thing_n differ_v from_o he_o that_o do_v gainsay_v he_o nor_o may_v defend_v the_o innocency_n of_o a_o presbyterian_a unless_o he_o be_v one_o himself_o and_o that_o all_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o stand_v to_o the_o opinion_n of_o all_o christian_n in_o all_o other_o point_n who_o they_o seek_v to_o vindicate_v against_o public_a slander_n what_o a_o pack_n of_o doctrine_n do_v the_o reason_n of_o these_o your_o write_n imply_v if_o they_o be_v but_o set_v together_o if_o i_o write_v almost_o twenty_o year_n ago_o and_o still_o against_o lay_v elder_n a_o conformist_n may_v equal_o charge_v that_o upon_o i_o which_o i_o write_v against_o if_o i_o do_v but_o plead_v against_o slander_v those_o that_o hold_v what_o i_o dissent_v from_o yea_o he_o know_v not_o where_o to_o have_v we_o so_o little_o do_v our_o write_n signify_v our_o mind_n in_o these_o man_n account_n the_o first_o epist_n to_o kederm_v in_o the_o first_o book_n that_o ever_o i_o write_v disclaim_v they_o but_o that_o be_v nothing_o to_o you_o and_o i_o must_v be_v take_v for_o the_o achilles_n of_o the_o party_n and_o accountable_a for_o their_o opinion_n if_o i_o do_v but_o say_v to_o a_o print_n conformi_v thou_o shall_v not_o bear_v false_a witness_n against_o thy_o neighbour_n may_v i_o not_o say_v so_o to_o you_o for_o a_o heathen_a or_o a_o papist_n dr._n heylin_n tell_v we_o in_o the_o life_n of_o archbishop_n laud_n that_o the_o king_n printer_n be_v censure_v sore_o for_o print_v the_o seven_o commandment_n thou_o shall_v commit_v adultery_n but_o i_o never_o yet_o meet_v with_o the_o nine_o commandment_n so_o transmute_v to_o give_v you_o any_o excuse_n if_o you_o think_v it_o lawful_a to_o say_v any_o thing_n how_o unjust_a soever_o against_o a_o man_n that_o be_v not_o for_o your_o discipline_n which_o you_o as_o much_o wish_v amend_v yourself_o i_o be_o of_o another_o mind_n when_o lamprid_n tell_v we_o that_o alex_n severus_n borrow_v his_o motto_n of_o the_o christian_n quod_fw-la tibi_fw-la fieri_fw-la non_fw-la vis_fw-la etc._n etc._n he_o never_o say_v that_o therefore_o he_o be_v a_o christian_n i_o have_v get_v no_o lawyer_n to_o plead_v for_o i_o at_o the_o bar_n if_o they_o have_v know_v that_o they_o be_v accountable_a for_o all_o my_o opinion_n i_o be_o sure_a the_o lord_n chief_a justice_n when_o he_o acquit_v i_o think_v fit_a to_o declare_v his_o different_a judgement_n from_o i_o in_o point_n of_o preach_v private_o yet_o here_o your_o term_n of_o logic_n be_v into_o how_o many_o shape_n and_o hecatetriformis_fw-la fish_n flesh_n mermaid_n episcopal_n presbyterian_a independent_a yet_o none_o of_o these_o when_o you_o please_v a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sometime_o in_o the_o water_n sometime_o out_o i_o wish_v you_o be_v hot_a or_o cold_a all_o this_o set_v together_o will_v make_v a_o syllogism_n of_o a_o new_a mood_n and_o figure_n but_o 1._o for_o aught_o i_o know_v most_o of_o the_o nonconformist_n be_v such_o be_v your_o bungle_a description_n intimate_v and_o whatever_o man_n hold_v take_v it_o as_o it_o be_v and_o feign_v they_o not_o to_o hold_v what_o they_o do_v not_o do_v not_o you_o in_o print_n proclaim_v man_n to_o be_v flesh_n or_o fish_n hot_a or_o cold_a that_o be_v not_o so_o but_o lay_v our_o error_n where_o it_o lie_v even_o as_o i_o must_v not_o take_v your_o chancellor_n for_o clergyman_n or_o layman_n 2._o and_o do_v not_o all_o my_o tedious_a write_n convince_v you_o before_o now_o that_o i_o therefore_o take_v that_o for_o a_o honour_n which_o you_o take_v for_o my_o disgrace_n because_o i_o take_v that_o for_o plain_a and_o certain_a truth_n which_o you_o reproach_n you_o can_v not_o except_o a_o catholic_n christian_n have_v true_o call_v i_o than_o a_o episcopal_a presbyterian-independent_a i_o have_v oft_o enough_o tell_v the_o world_n that_o i_o be_o very_o confident_a that_o each_o of_o the_o three_o party_n have_v some_o truth_n and_o some_o error_n appropriate_a to_o themselves_o or_o which_o the_o rest_n have_v not_o i_o never_o find_v in_o scripture_n any_o obligation_n that_o i_o must_v needs_o be_v of_o a_o faction_n in_o a_o time_n when_o faction_n have_v breed_v war_n trouble_a kingdom_n silence_a preacher_n by_o the_o hundred_o etc._n etc._n and_o when_o i_o have_v see_v and_o feel_v the_o effect_n and_o not_o be_v always_o innocent_a of_o the_o cause_n nor_o yet_o that_o i_o must_v either_o refuse_v all_o the_o good_a or_o receive_v all_o the_o bad_a and_o feed_v on_o the_o excrement_n of_o any_o faction_n whatsoever_o i_o be_o for_o no_o such_o heat_n or_o cold_a i_o be_o no_o such_o fish_n or_o flesh_n i_o will_v neither_o persecute_v as_o paul_n do_v nor_o separate_v as_o peter_n do_v gal._n 2._o nor_o comply_v as_o barnabas_n do_v nor_o reject_v the_o brethren_n as_o diotrephes_n do_v nor_o condemn_v other_o as_o the_o weak_a do_v nor_o despise_v they_o as_o the_o strong_a do_v rom._n 14._o 1_o 2_o etc._n etc._n but_o be_v such_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o he_o that_o become_v a_o jew_n a_o greek_a all_o thing_n to_o all_o man_n that_o he_o may_v win_v some_o when_o i_o offend_v the_o bishop_n in_o conference_n i_o open_o tell_v they_o i_o have_v ever_o take_v kneel_v at_o the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v lawful_a but_o i_o never_o take_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o cast_v honest_a christian_n out_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o dare_v not_o do_v it_o do_v this_o prove_v i_o to_o be_v neither_o fish_n nor_o flesh_n be_v no_o man_n of_o your_o religion_n that_o be_v not_o for_o excommunication_n or_o prison_n sword_n or_o flame_n for_o every_o child_n of_o god_n that_o cry_v or_o wrangle_v with_o the_o breast_n again_o i_o will_v say_v be_v they_o priscillianist_n i_o be_o more_o for_o martin_n spirit_n than_o the_o ithacian_a bishop_n and_o sir_n that_o factious_a fury_n and_o uncharitableness_n keep_v up_o but_o a_o present_a violent_a kind_n of_o honour_n the_o instance_n now_o once_o again_o name_v may_v tell_v you_o that_o when_o all_o the_o bishop_n thereabouts_o in_o their_o synod_n do_v but_o seek_v to_o the_o magistrate_n to_o use_v the_o sword_n against_o such_o gross_a heretic_n as_o the_o priscillianist_n who_o as_o severus_n say_v that_o know_v they_o be_v gnostic_n and_o but_o one_o poor_a ragged_a unlearned_a godly_a bishop_n martin_n with_o one_o other_o only_a in_o all_o france_n do_v dissent_v from_o they_o reprove_v they_o and_o separate_v for_o it_o from_o their_o synod_n and_o communion_n godly_a people_n accidental_o fall_v under_o the_o vulgar_n reproach_n for_o the_o heretic_n sake_n as_o late_o by_o the_o word_n puritan_n here_o yet_o this_o one_o
their_o own_o principle_n in_o baptise_v the_o infant_n of_o non-confederates_a p._n 129._o i_o do_v utter_o withstand_v it_o as_o wickedness_n and_o abomination_n in_o god_n church_n i_o be_o to_o die_v and_o burn_v at_o a_o stake_n before_o i_o yield_v to_o any_o such_o thing_n this_o be_v mr._n baxters_n way_n he_o offer_v it_o to_o bishop_n morley_n and_o bishop_n gunning_n in_o his_o preface_n to_o his_o last_o book_n of_o concord_n that_o posterity_n may_v see_v what_o it_o be_v that_o he_o will_v have_v have_v and_o labour_v to_o set_v up_o in_o all_o the_o church_n and_o according_o let_v both_o the_o present_a and_o future_a age_n see_v and_o know_v p._n 130._o your_o way_n be_v not_o so_o innocent_a as_o that_o of_o rebaptising_a for_o the_o very_a matter_n and_o term_n of_o your_o church-covenant_n be_v unsafe_a and_o plain_o schismatical_a as_o if_o constable_n and_o people_n of_o each_o town_n must_v confederate_a to_o be_v a_o corporation_n a_o independent_a body_n have_v all_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o and_o such_o as_o will_v not_o enter_v into_o this_o confederacy_n must_v be_v count_v none_o of_o the_o king_n subject_n to_o say_v there_o be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o world_n but_o a_o few_o independent_a church_n be_v to_o go_v beyond_o brownism_n it_o be_v rather_o to_o teach_v infidelity_n such_o a_o opinion_n will_v be_v abhor_v by_o all_o now_o mr._n baxter_n and_o the_o independent_o doctrine_n say_v it_o their_o error_n shall_v they_o hold_v it_o habitual_o predominant_o and_o practical_o will_v be_v certain_o their_o damnation_n p._n 141_o i_o see_v not_o but_o pagan_n gross_a heretic_n apostate_n thief_n and_o robber_n may_v combine_v together_o and_o say_v i_o take_v thou_o for_o my_o pastor_n and_o i_o take_v you_o for_o my_o people_n do_v not_o your_o doctrine_n infer_v it_o p._n 143._o if_o i_o yield_v to_o their_o assertion_n i_o must_v subvert_v the_o office_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n and_o all_o his_o faithful_a minister_n and_o all_o the_o church_n to_o this_o day_n which_o i_o will_v not_o do_v for_o fear_n of_o the_o censure_n of_o any_o man_n live_v no_o nor_o of_o a_o whole_a council_n of_o man_n p._n 57_o the_o way_n that_o mr._n baxter_n offer_v seem_v to_o be_v a_o worse_a way_n it_o be_v the_o way_n of_o rigid_a independency_n indeed_o mr._n b._n in_o all_o his_o write_n seem_v to_o be_v against_o the_o office_n of_o lay-elder_n but_o that_o he_o be_v not_o for_o they_o under_o another_o notion_n as_o head_n and_o delegate_n of_o the_o people_n mutual_o choose_v by_o the_o pastor_n and_o people_n for_o assistance_n in_o discipline_n may_v be_v doubt_v he_o seem_v to_o hint_n at_o it_o etc._n etc._n §_o 2._o how_o little_a truth_n be_v in_o all_o this_o and_o abundance_n such_o 1._o either_o it_o be_v truth_n that_o i_o be_o for_o rigid_a independency_n or_o not_o if_o not_o if_z yea_o i_o be_o glad_a that_o the_o independent_a way_n be_v no_o worse_o i_o be_o not_o much_o acquaint_v with_o they_o but_o if_o this_o man_n say_v true_a 1._o they_o be_v for_o no_o covenant_v but_o consent_n to_o the_o relation_n signify_v 2._o they_o be_v not_o for_o bind_v any_o to_o continue_v in_o that_o relation_n 3._o they_o be_v not_o for_o bind_v any_o from_o a_o regular_a use_n of_o any_o other_o minister_n or_o church_n communion_n 4._o in_o place_n where_o parish_n be_v divide_v by_o law_n and_o the_o ordinary_a attendance_n on_o the_o pastor_n ministration_n go_v for_o a_o sign_n of_o consent_n they_o be_v true_a church_n and_o member_n that_o thus_o signify_v it_o and_o ad_fw-la esse_fw-la it_o be_v usual_o enough_o though_o ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la in_o doubtful_a case_n the_o more_o express_a as_o more_o intelligible_a caeteris_fw-la paribus_fw-la be_v best_o 5._o they_o be_v against_o a_o office_n of_o lay-elder_n distinct_a from_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n as_o of_o god_n institution_n for_o church-government_n 6._o they_o be_v against_o democracie_n or_o the_o church-governing_a power_n of_o the_o people_n 7._o they_o take_v reform_v parish-church_n for_o the_o best_a order_n not_o take_v all_o for_o member_n that_o be_v in_o the_o parish_n but_o all_o the_o capable_a 8._o they_o be_v against_o gather_v church_n out_o of_o such_o parish-church_n without_o great_a necessity_n 9_o they_o be_v great_o against_o require_v any_o qualification_n as_o necessary_a to_o communion_n in_o point_n of_o holiness_n but_o express_a consent_n to_o the_o baptismal_a covenant_n or_o profession_n of_o christianity_n not_o disprove_v 10._o they_o make_v not_o the_o people_n election_n of_o their_o pastor_n necessary_a ad_fw-la esse_fw-la but_o mere_a consent_n though_o the_o patron_n or_o other_o elect_v they_o 11._o they_o suppose_v that_o the_o people_n election_n or_o consent_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o man_n a_o minister_n in_o the_o universal_a church_n but_o only_o to_o make_v he_o their_o pastor_n as_o to_o make_v a_o physician_n and_o to_o make_v he_o my_o physician_n differ_v 12._o they_o suppose_v that_o a_o true_a minister_n officiate_v as_o such_o where_o ever_o he_o do_v it_o 13._o they_o suppose_v that_o association_n or_o correspondency_n of_o church_n for_o concord_n and_o help_n and_o synod_n to_o that_o end_n and_o dependencie_n on_o such_o synod_n be_v usual_o a_o duty_n where_o it_o can_v well_o be_v have_v and_o needless_a discord_n a_o fault_n 14._o they_o refuse_v not_o to_o submit_v in_o practice_n to_o the_o instruction_n or_o admonition_n of_o any_o general_a visitor_n or_o overseer_n of_o many_o church_n call_v by_o some_o archbishop_n 15._o they_o refuse_v not_o the_o precedency_n of_o one_o pastor_n in_o every_o particular_a church_n over_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o presbyter_n 16._o they_o refuse_v he_o not_o the_o name_n of_o the_o bishop_n nor_o yet_o to_o submit_v to_o his_o negative_a voice_n as_o of_o the_o quorum_fw-la or_o the_o archbishop_n either_o in_o ordination_n and_o all_o great_a public_a matter_n 17._o they_o be_v for_o separate_v from_o no_o christian_n further_o than_o they_o separate_v from_o christ_n or_o will_v force_v they_o to_o sin_n but_o be_v for_o universal_a love_n and_o concord_n 18._o they_o be_v for_o obey_v the_o magistrate_n in_o all_o lawful_a thing_n belong_v to_o his_o function_n 19_o they_o take_v the_o most_o extensive_a love_n peace_n and_o concord_n for_o the_o most_o desirable_a and_o best_a 20._o it_o be_v next_o their_o obedience_n to_o christ_n and_o his_o sufficient_a law_n the_o great_a reason_n why_o they_o be_v against_o the_o term_n impose_v in_o most_o place_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n where_o thing_n unnecessary_a and_o suspect_v be_v make_v necessary_a to_o communion_n reader_n mr._n ch._n be_v so_o honest_a a_o man_n that_o it_o be_v unjust_a to_o take_v he_o for_o a_o deliberate_a study_a lyar._n therefore_o see_v he_o say_v that_o my_o way_n be_v rigid_a independency_n and_o oft_o make_v i_o a_o downright_a independent_a i_o that_o know_v my_o own_o judgement_n and_o know_v not_o they_o so_o well_o as_o he_o seem_v to_o do_v be_o glad_a to_o hear_v that_o they_o be_v no_o worse_o and_o that_o they_o be_v wrong_v by_o such_o as_o accuse_v they_o of_o deny_v any_o of_o those_o twenty_o point_n §_o 3._o and_o suppose_v that_o he_o say_v true_a and_o that_o they_o hold_v but_o my_o way_n as_o he_o call_v it_o i_o will_v now_o try_v the_o force_n and_o honesty_n of_o his_o charge_n against_o they_o and_o first_o it_o savour_v of_o a_o spirit_n worse_o than_o his_o own_o that_o when_o he_o have_v before_o use_v the_o word_n oath_n as_o own_a by_o i_o and_o then_o say_v he_o repent_v of_o it_o that_o he_o still_o use_v the_o word_n covenant_n here_o as_o i_o instead_o of_o consent_n which_o be_v the_o word_n which_o i_o use_v and_o over_o and_o over_o say_v that_o i_o own_v no_o covenant_n but_o any_o signification_n of_o consent_n to_o the_o relation_n only_o because_o i_o say_v that_o not_o ad_fw-la esse_fw-la but_o ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la plain_a or_o express_v consent_n in_o doubtful_a case_n be_v best_o this_o smell_n of_o a_o ill_a intention_n and_o now_o i_o will_v try_v his_o argument_n against_o this_o consent_n §_o 4._o p._n 101._o he_o say_v mr._n b._n act_n contrary_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n in_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o no●_n confederate_n the_o universal_a and_o particular_a church_n make_v but_o one_o church_n of_o god_n he_o that_o refuse_v one_o essential_a of_o church-communion_n be_v no_o christian_a and_o be_v to_o be_v debar_v the_o privilege_n of_o christian_n but_o according_a to_o you_o non-confederates_a refuse_v one_o essential_a of_o church-communion_n i_o may_v not_o baptize_v you_o you_o be_v to_o i_o a_o pagan_a ans_fw-fr putares_fw-la sed_fw-la calumniaris_fw-la here_o be_v