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rest_n bishop_n church_n presbyter_n 2,348 5 10.4986 5 false
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A26860 An answer to Mr. Dodwell and Dr. Sherlocke, confuting an universal humane church-supremacy aristocratical and monarchical, as church-tyranny and popery : and defending Dr. Isaac Barrow's treatise against it by Richard Baxter ; preparatory to a fuller treatise against such an universal soveraignty as contrary to reason, Christianity, the Protestant profession, and the Church of England, though the corrupters usurp that title. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1682 (1682) Wing B1184; ESTC R16768 131,071 189

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be_v say_v for_o it_o as_o well_o as_o against_o it_o and_o i_o never_o meet_v but_o with_o two_o objection_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o worthy_a of_o much_o further_a search_n one_o be_v that_o see_v de_fw-la facto_fw-la popery_n and_o high_a prelacy_n have_v so_o far_o and_o long_o rule_v in_o the_o church_n whether_o it_o be_v credible_a that_o christ_n will_v so_o permit_v it_o if_o he_o hate_v it_o and_o give_v his_o church_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la no_o better_a government_n 2._o whether_o man_n great_a proneness_n to_o discord_n make_v not_o popery_n italian_n or_o french_a a_o prudent_a course_n and_o to_o these_o 1._o i_o be_o sure_a that_o christ_n come_v to_o destroy_v the_o work_n of_o the_o devil_n and_o save_v his_o people_n from_o their_o sin_n and_o make_v they_o holy_a a_o peculiar_a people_n zealous_a of_o good_a work_n and_o gather_v a_o church_n of_o such_o out_o of_o the_o world_n and_o rule_v they_o in_o a_o communion_n of_o saint_n till_o he_o bring_v they_o to_o 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if_o she_o have_v no_o more_o the_o priest_n that_o the_o pope_n send_v from_o italy_n into_o england●hat_o ●hat_z can_v speak_v no_o english_a know_v what_o you_o mention_v perhaps_o but_o it_o be_v necessary_a also_o that_o the_o pastor_n teach_v all_o this_o knowledge_n to_o all_o the_o flock_n which_o be_v not_o do_v with_o say_v few_o word_n this_o man_n mind_v i_o of_o the_o say_n of_o a_o atheistical_a physician_n what_o need_v there_o all_o this_o preach_a and_o stir_v i_o can_v tell_v they_o all_o in_o three_o word_n it_o be_v but_o think_v well_o and_o say_v well_o and_o do_v well_o dr._n saywell_n and_o mr_n dodwell_n that_o be_v so_o much_o for_o our_o silence_n seem_v to_o be_v too_o near_o to_o this_o man_n mind_n but_o say_v st._n paul_n who_o be_v sufficient_a for_o these_o thing_n 8._o yet_o this_o sort_n of_o man_n that_o can_v accept_v of_o so_o little_a of_o god_n in_o the_o priest_n so_o be_v it_o they_o will_v but_o be_v rule_v by_o the_o prelate_n who_o i_o 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2._o 1_o cor_fw-la 1.21_o 2_o tim._n 2.2_o 24._o tit._n 2.3_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o ever_o any_o one_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v ordain_v a_o mass_n priest_n or_o sacrament_n priest_n and_o not_o a_o teacher_n 2._o when_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o actual_a give_v the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a to_o a_o bishop_n or_o presbyter_n not_o only_o paul_n baptize_v few_o but_o many_o parish_n priest_n leave_v that_o work_n to_o their_o curate_n and_o some_o bishop●_n leave_v both_o the_o sacrament_n to_o their_o chaplain_n or_o priest_n i_o suppose_v you_o know_v that_o in_o the_o ancient_a church_n one_o assembly_n have_v usual_o a_o bishop_n with_o many_o presbyter_n and_o deacon_n and_o usual_o the_o bishop_n do_v both_o preach_v and_o celebrate_v the_o eucharist_n can_v you_o prove_v that_o the_o rest_n do_v any_o 〈◊〉_d celebrate_v than_o preach_v 3._o but_o if_o you_o be_v willing_a you_o may_v easy_o know_v that_o we_o take_v preach_v to_o ●ave_n more_o mode_n than_o make_o a_o set_a sermon_n in_o the_o pulpit_n the_o presbyter_n of_o old_a be_v all_o preacher_n sometime_o in_o the_o pulpit_n when_o the_o bishop_n or_o chief_a speaker_n be_v absent_a sick_a or_o require_v it_o sometime_o to_o small_a party_n in_o house_n or_o chapel_n or_o lesser_a meeting_n sometime_o by_o conference_n as_o christ_n preach_v to_o the_o woman_n job._n 4._o and_o if_o you_o think_v otherwise_o yet_o i_o be_o confident_a by_o experience_n that_o it_o be_v a_o easy_a thing_n and_o require_v less_o skill_n to_o make_v a_o pulpit_n study_a sermon_n than_o to_o deal_v convince_o in_o conference_n with_o particular_a person_n that_o need_v our_o teach_n and_o a_o man_n may_v learn_v to_o say_v mass_n or_o liturgy_n that_o have_v no_o tolerable_a fitness_n to_o teach_v 4._o but_o if_o preach_v and_o teach_v be_v all_o one_o with_o you_o as_o they_o be_v with_o i_o be_v it_o not_o a_o strange_a question_n to_o ask_v how_o we_o prove_v that_o preach_a that_o be_v 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do_v he_o think_v it_o such_o a_o small_a and_o easy_a matter_n to_o teach_v man_n all_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n the_o sense_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o lords-supper_n it_o may_v be_v h●_n will_v say_v that_o it_o be_v some_o other_o preach_v that_o he_o mean_v but_o he_o speak_v to_o i_o who_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o d●_n warmstrie_n and_o of_o mr._n th._n baldwin_n who_o be_v yet_o live_a do_v offer_v bishop_n morley_n when_o he_o forbid_v i_o to_o preach_v in_o his_o diocese_n to_o promise_v he_o to_o preach_v only_o the_o catechism-doctrine_n on_o baptism_n the_o creed_n the_o lord_n prayer_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n archbishop_n usher_n in_o his_o ●ermon_n before_o king_n james_n on_o eph●s_n 4_o 3._o bold_o affirm_v that_o l●t_v the_o learnede_a of_o they_o all_o try_v it_o when_o they_o will_v they_o shall_v find_v that_o it_o require_v great_a 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intimate_v or_o express_v untruth_n mere_o forge_v by_o he_o contrary_a to_o my_o copious_a explication_n and_o against_o the_o rule_n of_o common_a honesty_n that_o i_o will_v not_o lose_v my_o own_o and_o the_o reader_n time_n in_o particular_a answer_n to_o they_o he_o will_v persuade_v the_o reader_n that_o i_o affirm_v that_o power_n immediate_o result_v from_o gift_n who_o never_o have_v such_o a_o thought_n but_o say_v it_o neither_o result_v from_o they_o mediate_o nor_o immediate_o this_o deal_n be_v so_o gross_o false_a that_o it_o be_v neither_o credit_n to_o his_o cause_n nor_o he_o will_v he_o make_v man_n think_v that_o i_o take_v he_o to_o have_v most_o authority_n or_o power_n that_o have_v the_o best_a gift_n as_o if_o
the_o ruin_n of_o their_o worldly_a estate_n and_o the_o hazard_n of_o their_o life_n in_o the_o common_a goal_n endeavour_v nothing_o but_o to_o preach_v christ_n gospel_n to_o save_v man_n soul_n from_o ignorance_n unbelief_n sensuality_n worldliness_n etc._n etc._n in_o case_n of_o the_o people_n undeniable_a necessity_n i_o say_v when_o such_o meet_a with_o man_n of_o the_o same_o profession_n who_o think_v not_o the_o common_a goal_n among_o rogue_n and_o the_o forfeiture_n of_o forty_o pound_n a_o sermon_n as_o enact_v by_o law_n to_o be_v enough_o to_o restrain_v they_o but_o also_o as_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n they_o will_v charge_v we_o with_o heinous_a sin_n unless_o we_o will_v perfidious_o break_v our_o obligation_n to_o christ_n and_o sacrilegious_o alienate_v ourselves_o from_o the_o work_n which_o we_o be_v devote_v to_o many_o of_o we_o under_o the_o bishop_n hand_n and_o unless_o we_o will_v be_v cruel_a to_o miserable_a soul_n and_o shut_v up_o the_o bowel_n of_o our_o compassion_n from_o they_o while_o we_o see_v they_o in_o need_n and_o in_o danger_n of_o damnation_n what_o fortitude_n do_v we_o need_v against_o such_o kind_n of_o tempter_n and_o such_o temptation_n if_o drunkard_n and_o boy_n in_o the_o street_n only_o scorn_v i_o as_o a_o puritan_n or_o precisian_n it_o be_v less_o if_o turkish_a ruler_n do_v persecute_v i_o for_o my_o preach_a christ_n it_o be_v less_o if_o mistake_v christian_a ruler_n make_v i_o the_o scorn_n of_o the_o nation_n and_o strip_v i_o of_o all_o my_o worldly_a maintenance_n and_o lay_v i_o with_o malefactor_n in_o prison_n it_o be_v a_o less_o temptation_n than_o for_o a_o man_n to_o come_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n to_o tell_v i_o that_o i_o sin_n against_o he_o unless_o i_o will_v forsake_v my_o call_v break_v my_o vow_n cease_v preach_v his_o gospel_n betray_v thousand_o of_o soul_n to_o satan_n and_o damnation_n and_o encourage_v all_o that_o endeavour_v it_o by_o yield_v to_o all_o their_o temptation_n and_o give_v they_o success_n but_o as_o christ_n must_v be_v accuse_v of_o sin_n as_o well_o as_o crucify_v and_o not_o allow_v the_o honour_n of_o suffer_v as_o innocent_a so_o must_v his_o servant_n i_o will_v venture_v upon_o one_o argument_n on_o the_o by_o that_o may_v be_v somewhat_o by_o other_o though_o nothing_o to_o you_o for_o the_o invalidating_a of_o your_o accusation_n i_o see_v from_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o noble_a lord_n orery_n a_o excellent_a true_o learned_a manuscript_n say_v by_o he_o to_o be_v the_o bishop_n of_o lincoln_n to_o satisfy_v you_o who_o be_v say_v to_o judge_n it_o unlawful_a to_o subscribe_v to_o athanasius_n creed_n what_o else_o you_o refuse_v i_o know_v not_o but_o by_o that_o much_o i_o perceive_v you_o be_v a_o strange_a kind_n of_o nonconformist_n now_o if_o it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o you_o to_o subscribe_v and_o conform_v or_o unlawful_a for_o i_o which_o i_o here_o undertake_v to_o prove_v before_o any_o equal_a competent_a judge_n than_o it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o all_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n ☜_o for_o none_o of_o they_o may_v do_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v by_o it_o and_o then_o all_o the_o minister_n in_o england_n ought_v to_o cease_v preach_v if_o i_o ought_v to_o cease_v when_o they_o be_v forbid_v the_o consequence_n will_v be_v deny_v by_o other_o though_o not_o by_o you_o and_o by_o the_o way_n how_o can_v you_o take_v the_o bishop_n for_o absolute_a from_o who_o there_o be_v no_o appeal_n to_o a_o invisible_a power_n and_o yet_o disobey_v they_o if_o they_o bid_v you_o subscribe_v athanasius_n creed_n if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n in_o i_o not_o to_o cease_v preach_v when_o i_o be_o silence_v for_o nonconformity_n and_o yet_o nonconformity_n be_v a_o duty_n than_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n in_o all_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n not_o to_o be_v nonformists_n and_o so_o not_o to_o cease_v preach_v but_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o consequent_a be_v false_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o antecedent_n 2._o yea_o direct_o your_o assertion_n put_v it_o in_o the_o power_n of_o one_o superior_a to_o put_v down_o the_o preach_v of_o the_o gospel_n and_o all_o god_n public_a worship_n in_o whole_a country_n or_o kingdom_n if_o not_o in_o the_o world_n and_o so_o christ_n must_v be_v at_o their_o mercy_n whether_o he_o shall_v have_v any_o church_n and_o so_o whether_o he_o shall_v be_v christ_n and_o god_n whether_o he_o shall_v have_v any_o public_a worship_n in_o ethiopia_n though_o brierwood_n say_v that_o yet_o after_o the_o decay_n of_o the_o abassine_a empire_n it_o be_v as_o big_a as_o italy_n germany_n france_n and_o spain_n they_o have_v but_o one_o bishop_n call_v their_o abuna_n and_o if_o he_o forbid_v all_o preach_a or_o public_a worship_n in_o the_o empire_n it_o be_v a_o sin_n to_o obey_v he_o and_o it_o be_v a_o great_a duty_n to_o gather_v church_n within_o his_o church_n it_o be_v a_o sin_n in_o the_o empire_n of_o muscovie_n that_o all_o their_o clergy_n obey_v their_o patriarch_n and_o prince_n in_o forbear_v to_o preach_v if_o all_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n shall_v agree_v to_o reduce_v the_o kingdom_n to_o one_o only_a bishopric_n and_o one_o church_n and_o turn_v all_o the_o rest_n into_o parish-chappels_a it_o be_v a_o duty_n to_o disobey_v they_o and_o gather_v church_n in_o that_o one_o church_n if_o the_o patriarch_n of_o alexandria_n antioch_n or_o constantinople_n have_v forbid_v all_o in_o their_o limit_n to_o preach_v and_o worship_n god_n public_o it_o have_v be_v a_o wickedness_n to_o obey_v they_o when_o severus_n antioch_n the_o eutychian_a forbid_v the_o orthodox_n to_o preach_v in_o his_o patriarchate_n it_o have_v be_v their_o sin_n to_o obey_v he_o yea_o or_o if_o theodosius_n or_o anastasius_n the_o emperor_n have_v do_v it_o yea_o though_o a_o general_n council_n of_o ephes._n 2._o if_o not_o ephes._n 1_o be_v on_o his_o side_n if_o the_o pope_n whether_o as_o pope_n or_o as_o patriarch_n of_o the_o west_n interdict_v all_o the_o preacher_n and_o church_n in_o venice_n or_o in_o britain_n it_o be_v a_o sin_n to_o obey_v he_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o their_o power_n be_v derive_v and_o limit_v to_o pass_v by_o the_o no_o power_n of_o usurper_n the_o great_a have_v it_o for_o edification_n and_o not_o for_o destruction_n none_o of_o they_o have_v power_n to_o make_v void_a the_o least_o continue_v law_n of_o god_n by_o their_o doctrine_n precept_n or_o tradition_n all_o man_n must_v take_v heed_n of_o the_o leven_a of_o their_o false_a doctrine_n and_o must_v beware_v of_o false_a prophet_n and_o must_v prove_v all_o thing_n and_o hold_v fast_o that_o which_o be_v good_a there_o be_v no_o true_a power_n but_o of_o god_n and_o therefore_o none_o against_o he_o it_o be_v better_a to_o obey_v god_n than_o man_n but_o of_o this_o you_o may_v in_o season_n have_v large_a proof_n if_o you_o desire_v it_o vi_o your_o exclude_v we_o from_o salvation_n that_o will_v not_o cease_v preach_v 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wish_v i_o silent_a 5._o what_o superior_n say_v and_o do_v i_o need_v not_o mention_v 6._o and_o to_o perfect_v all_o some_o preacher_n in_o press_n and_o pulpit_n and_o you_o in_o discourse_n declare_v we_o in_o danger_n of_o damnation_n as_o schismatic_n unless_o we_o will_v give_v over_o preach_v the_o gospel_n o_o how_o easy_a be_v it_o to_o i_o to_o avoid_v that_o damnation_n and_o if_o i_o incur_v it_o how_o dear_o do_v i_o purchase_v it_o it_o be_v a_o sad_a case_n that_o such_o poor_a soul_n as_o we_o be_v in_o that_o will_v fain_o know_v god_n will_n whatever_o study_n or_o suffer_v it_o cost_v we_o and_o after_o our_o most_o earnest_a search_n and_o prayer_n believe_v that_o if_o we_o forsake_v our_o trust_n and_o office_n and_o the_o people_n soul_n we_o
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liberty_n of_o the_o subject_n and_o one_o word_n for_o the_o protestant_a religion_n for_o we_o englishman_n think_v god_n to_o be_v great_a than_o the_o king_n or_o st._n patrick_n and_o god_n law_n to_o be_v firm_a than_o the_o statute_n of_o king_n and_o parliament_n and_o yet_o i_o doubt_v that_o the_o king_n and_o some_o parliament_n will_v be_v angry_a if_o you_o do_v but_o say_v that_o the_o bishop_n by_o consent_n may_v change_v their_o statute_n or_o lawful_a officer_n and_o power_n and_o bishop_n if_o you_o say_v that_o episcopacy_n may_v be_v change_v ix_o baptism_n as_o such_o enter_v not_o the_o baptise_a into_o any_o particular_a church_n but_o only_o into_o the_o universal_a head_v by_o christ_n yet_o a_o man_n may_v at_o the_o same_o time_n be_v enter_v into_o the_o universal_a and_o into_o a_o particular_a church_n but_o that_o be_v by_o a_o double_a consent_n and_o not_o by_o baptism_n as_o such_o in_o this_o i_o know_v none_o that_o agree_v with_o you_o but_o some_o 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condescend_v tenderness_n patience_n plain_a evidence_n earnest_a exhortation_n no_o mean_n leave_v untried_a to_o reduce_v a_o sinful_a miserable_a soul._n and_o all_o this_o with_o the_o time_n and_o patience_n which_o so_o great_a a_o work_n require_v and_o sure_o if_o the_o congregation_n must_v avoid_v the_o sinner_n they_o shall_v know_v why_o one_o such_o person_n will_v hold_v the_o pastor_n work_n from_o first_o to_o last_o many_o a_o hour_n and_o day_n n●xt_v let_v we_o think_v how_o many_o such_o as_o by_o christ_n law_n must_v be_v th●s_o deal_v with_o be_v in_o a_o diocese_n i_o have_v the_o most_o reform_a people_n as_o to_o sin_n of_o commission_n and_o omission_n that_o ever_o i_o know_v in_o england_n our_o custom_n be_v to_o have_v each_o family_n come_v by_o turn_n to_o we_o to_o be_v personal_o catechise_v and_o instruct_v i_o have_v full_a opportunity_n to_o know_v they_o all_o many_o score_n of_o they_o that_o come_v daily_o to_o church_n know_v not_o the_o 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half_a as_o many_o some_o parish_n have_v 3000_o some_o 10000_o people_n in_o london_n some_o 20000_o 30000_o and_o the_o country_n small_a parish_n usual_o about_o 400_o 500_o or_o 1000_o i_o do_v warrantable_o conjecture_v that_o in_o the_o diocese_n where_o i_o now_o live_v there_o may_v be_v about_o 50000_o soul_n that_o by_o christ_n law_n shall_v be_v admonish_v and_o discipline_v for_o gross_a sin_n and_o about_o 80000_o or_o 100000_o that_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a of_o christianity_n it_o be_v ten_o to_o one_o experience_n tell_v it_o i_o that_o five_o convention_n will_v scarce_o serve_v with_o each_o obstinate_a sinner_n to_o bring_v the_o work_n to_o the_o issue_n of_o a_o due_a excommunication_n or_o absolution_n some_o part_n of_o the_o diocese_n that_o i_o be_o in_o be_v about_o 120_o mile_n from_o other_o part_n the_o diocesan_n then_o that_o do_v all_o this_o himself_o but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o if_o he_o sit_v half_a the_o year_n must_v either_o speak_v to_o 10000_o or_o 20000_o person_n at_o once_o or_o in_o a_o few_o minute_n or_o else_o he_o must_v let_v all_o the_o rest_n lie_v and_o rot_v in_o their_o sin_n till_o he_o have_v do_v with_o the_o first_o and_o indeed_o i_o have_v try_v it_o a_o sober_a pastoral_n course_n of_o conviction_n and_o discipline_n with_o each_o one_o will_v take_v up_o so_o much_o time_n that_o seven_o year_n be_v not_o enough_o for_o he_o to_o go_v over_o all_o this_o diocese_n if_o he_o do_v as_o much_o in_o a_o month_n as_o ever_o i_o know_v a_o bishop_n do_v in_o his_o life_n except_o against_o godly_a nonconformist_n or_o conscientious_a dissenter_n but_o if_o you_o consider_v how_o far_o every_o accuse_a minister_n and_o churchwarden_n and_o every_o accuse_a sinner_n have_v to_o travel_v some_o 20_o some_o 40_o mile_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o witness_n also_o must_v travel_v as_o far_o and_o how_o long_o they_o must_v attend_v and_o how_o few_o can_v bear_v the_o charge_n of_o this_o and_o that_o the_o 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