hym For when the owtward person ys mistaken and good wyll shewed vnto it the error happening ys quickelye forgeuen and the inward affection ys iustlye considered But lett vs goe further Loth I am here to â—â—pp vp and to open vnto yow the high misteries and secretes of their lerning and the force and strength of their reasons Yet at this tyme the importunitye of them forceth me so to doe c. These be his wordes But I will tell yow Master Iuell if yow will be ruled by counsel and doe as wyse and lerned men haue done here before neuer goe front your purpose and make an end of that which you haue taken in hand And if any be importunate answer them that yow will be at leisure an other tyme and then talk at large of their obiectioÌ„s But now it ys owt of your purpose to intreate of any thing which doth not appertein vnto the masse But contention hath no eares and when al is sett in and vpon the tong owt it must that which burneth in the stomake althowgh it agreeth no better then Germaines lippes whose tongues we see by experience in this world how farr they sound one countrarye to the other Lothe I am sayeth he which is verye seldome in men of hys religion which take it for a great perfection and zeale not onlye to dallie with mens argumentes but also to deface their lyues and to speake the worst they can of the highest priest in Christendom But thankes be vnto God that there ys one shamefast man in their syde And then good master Iuell if in deed you be lothe as you seeme to speake lett all extraordinarie matters passe by and folow onlye your purpose For why will you encumber your selfe with the highe misteries misteries and secretes of their lernyng the masse alone hauing sufficient argument to make .20 Sermons vpon it Well there ys no remedie allthowgh he be lothe to open the secretes of owr lernyng yet the importunitye of them sayeth he forceth me so to doe Wherin althowghe I nothing doubt but that he preached withowt troble and that he myght haue done what he would and haue preached in the lent especiallie of the passion or some matter parterning to pretie withowt bringing of question or controuersie yet lett vs suppose that some one was importunate and lett vs harken how properlye master Iuell doth answer his appetite But remember Sir that yow keepe promys least yow be thought to haue gone owt of your ware for nothing and remember that yow ryp vp and open the high misteries and secretes of their lernyng not skoffyng lyke a benchewhistler but reasonyng lyke a preacher Fyrst then to begyn with the head marke yow well sayeth he and waighe this argument God made two lightes in heauen the greater to rule the daye the lesse to rule the night ergo there be two powers to rule the world the Pope that resembleth the sonn and the Emperor that is less then he and likened vnto the moone This is an argument of theires vsed by Innocentius tertius Syr I pray yow before Innocentius who vsed this argument or conclusion Then I aske whether this text of Genesis was the cause that the Pope should be greater then an Emperor yf you can not tell what to answer to the first you are not skillfull inowgh in owr misteries how great also is your knowledge and reading that before Innocentius tertius yow dare well say that no man euer vsed the same verie argument or similitude And if to the second yow saye that the Sonn and Moone were the cause for which Christians dyd make the distinction betweene Pope and Emperor you maye goe to schoole agayne and lerne yowr Catechisme for any knowledge or vnderstanding which yow haue in secret mysteries whereas before Innocentius dayes the Pope was higher then the Emperor the argument of the Sonn and Moone being not alleaged for that purpose Yf yow were Cicero and for loue of your client would make a pretie lye and meâ—ie to delite my Lord the Iudge and deceaue therewith his circunspection and grauitie the Ethnykes for your so doing might dispense at their pleasure with you and geue that praise and name vnto you that you be a trym felow of a goodlie fyne witt and a pleasaunt and such a one good Iupiter send me might they say at my need but emong Christians in so great a question as the sowle cummeth vnto in open pulpitt a famouse scholar a Bishopp by calling to moue ernest expectation as though he would rypp vp the high misteries of the Catholike faith and to recyte but an argument of Innocentius onlie which he rather for garnisshing of his letters to the Emperor then strength of the similitude in it selfe and by it selfe dyd roundelye alleage furth vnto hym and to make as though that were the best argument and most secret misterie of the papisteâ— it ys not for a sage person matter place or audience Vnto yow M. Iuell if one should talke of this question how much the dignitie of a pope were better then the rome of an Emperor he should neuer alleage Innocentius tertius or the glose Not bycause they are to be contempned in them selues but rather bycause yow doe sett so litle by them And yet it may be proued vnto you all that which Innocentius would conclude by the alluding vnto the sonn and moone which God made at the beginnyng Therefore I doe graunt vnto you that Innocentius argument ys not of great good force against an ethnyke and heretike and yet I save the coÌ„clusion of the church standeth for all that this argument may fall But if it were an high misterie it could not be so easelie lett to faile ergo then yow haue declared or confuted yet no misteries of owre religion Now that there be two states of ruling in the church of Christ it ys plaine by this that the one which is temporall euerye man doth see of the other which is spirituall the psalmist doth propheâ—ie saying in steede of my fathers their â—ounes are borne vnto the meanying the Apostles and Bishoppes their successors them shalt thow apoynte princes and rulers ouer the whole earth And this is proued also by the Apostle commaunding the Bishoppes of Ephesus to take heede vnto them selues and also the whole flocke in which the holyghost hath sett and made you Bishoppes that yow should gouerne the churche of God which he hath purchased by his blond Then how much not only pope or prelate but euerie simple priest ys higher and honorabler then the greatest Emperor of the world not onlie the wordes and writinges of holie men but their factes rather and behauyors doe geue an euidonâ— testimonye As S. Martin being inuited with much a doe vnto Maximus the Emperor his table and hauing the cup first geauen vnto hym that he should begin vnto the Emperor not withstandyng the exceading great feast and honor which was he stowed vpon
that they shal not play the wantons but hold that which he teacheth or els voluntarilie and at pleasure they agree If voluntarilie and at wil then is not he sure of an others mind which may be so often tymes chainged in euery day and howre If they say one thing bicause of one master and auctoritye let him then plainlie tell vs the name of that person his master We haue hard of Luther Zuinglius Oecolampadius Seruetus Suenk feldius of the which euery one did crake of the glorious light of the Ghospel of Christ which they did beare abrode in their lanthornes But ther light is not the light of the sonne but such as we see in great tempestes when contrary flashinges of lightening com one against an other They did not confort and quickeÌ„ by their doctâ—in â–ª but destroy and burn vp quite the grene frutes of deuotion and pretie And which then of all these is your master ruler The worde of God â—f in these dayes it be com abrode out of darcknes it cometh not without handes and tongues who then be your apostles If there be none a great maruel certenly to receaue so great a gift and not to know froÌ„ whence it cam or who brought it If there be any then must you folow your Apostles But they are all so wel and highly learned that they disdain to be any mans scholers as a certen Doctor and called a bishop perswading with one that he should read the Doctors with iudgement meaning that in deed the doctors be plainly against them except one take the place of a iudge vpon him and defyne their verdictes as it shall please the world the fleâ—sh and the diuell vsed this kind of reason to obtain his purpose for I my self ê™ he do read Luther with iudgemeÌ„t O miserable and beggerly religioÌ„ euen Luther him selue which like a morning is sayd to haue risen before the light of the ghospell for whom they blesse the Lord that in him he reueled his sâ—ne Ihâ—sus Christ os impudens yet is he to be readen with iudgmeÌ„t But whose iudgemeÌ„t The iudgmeÌ„t of the church â—row you or iudgmeÌ„t of Melanchthon Bucer Caluin or any other no no â–ª for al these are to be readeÌ„ also with iudgmeÌ„t And whose iudgement forsoth myn owne Behold then I pray you is not the Ghospell mightely spred abrode when all this while no one person liuing is found on the ProtestaÌ„teâ— side which is and must be taken for an vndouted trew preacher of the Ghospel Again suppose that I haue yet no Christendom and that gladly I wold com to the trew fayth which is the trew light of my soule as far and as mightely as it is spred abrode where yet shall I find it Let me begin at Sarum church and doth that agree in al pointes with the Quenes chappell Let me goe vnto Geneua and that church doth it agree in all articles with England froÌ„ thens bring me abrode in to Germany and shall I see the same preachinges vsed as are in other countries and cities of them which are no papistes how shall I which am not yet christened and learned distinct the Lutheran Zuinglian Anabaptist Arrian and more such sectes one from an other For the blase of the glorious light which you talke of is marred by the concurring of all these flames together Wherfor I wonder much at the vain hope of him which in these most troblesom and controuersious times would look that euery man should com to the licht of the Ghospel which he saieth is mightely spred abrode wheras in deed he him selfe which hoped for many incummynges doth not yet redely know whether he be in the right way him self or no. and can not proue to me whether this which he holdeth be the Ghospell of Christ or no or counterfaicted by som Pope or other or by som one generall Councell or other from whose handes we haue receaued it For if it folow well and if we may build here vpon oure soules health that they haue not â—aythfullie expounded vnto vs the Ghospell as easely it may folow that they haue deliuered vnto vs a false Ghospell And if they may be trusted with the keping of the Ghospell and that we nothing doubte but they haue deliuered it as they receaued it without interlining rasing blotting and corrupting of it why should we mistrust them in the expounding of the same Ghospell If they had so good conscience that hauing the testament in their keping they are beleued to haue suppressed or burned or altered no part therof shall we make them on the other side so wicked and desperate that they would expouÌ„d the same otherwise then they had receaued And if we doe stand by it plainly and openly that they wer so corrupted and blinded that they haue sensed and interpreted the scriptures most vntruly and most against the glory of God can we with owt feare receaue the testament of God and writinges of all our health â—rom them and nothing mistrust lest they haue put in and put out for their owne purpose and aduantage many thinges which God neuer vttered or which he expreslie coÌ„maunded Certainly as mightely as the talke of the worde of God and glorious light of the ghospell is spred abrode bicause of so diuers sectes which declame against the catholick and Apostolick church yet if we considre the case rightly the very crakers of that light know not for all that in what suerty of their faith they be them selues For they haue forsaken the high way and what by breaking of ceremonies what by ouerturning of monasteries what by false libertie of conscience that they may doe what they will vnder the name of the crosse of Christ and his passion they haue so crossed the wayes and broken down so many hedgis and troden downe so much good corn so many faire pastures of all pietie and deuotion that except they com back to the beginning againe they can neuer com to good end Whither be you posting Sir and please you vnto heauen you must ride then a pase for company bycause by your owne confession these nine hundred yeres and more none did euer take this way which you doe folow But where will you bayt by the way At the signe of the booke with seuen claspes which is the Ghospell Sir then I besech you what call you the city where that signe is Mary Geneua where Caluin readeth What if Geneua be destroied and Caluin burned or otherwise dead before you com thither Whither will you goe then to the signe of the Ghospel And why not to Caluins successors which may saâ—ly deliuer you the Ghospel And then Geneua being destroied and Caluin both what shall the next bayting place be at which thei may turne in which look to be saued or what shall his name be which is goodmaÌ„ of the house Certanly at this point and turning they are no more sure of their faith theÌ„ I shold be
tawght the people that it was iniurious to Christ and his mediation to aske for helpe at any others handes then his Or that they should vse the signe of the crosse in baptisme only and not at the coÌ„secrating of Christ his body Or that they were not heretikes which threw downe altars erected vnto Christ Or that any Bisshopp then was maryed vpon Asshewensday Or that any goodman then did write that the gouernement of women was monstruous Or that 〈◊〉 in these wordes hoc est corpus meâ—Ì„ yâ— to be taken for significat Or that the lay people communicatyng did take the cup one at an others handes and â—ot at the priests handes or the deacons Or that there was any controuersie then in religionâ— which being decided by the Bishop of Rome the contrarie part was not taken for heresie and the mainteiners of it accompted heretikes Or that any then was put in the Calender for a Maâ—â—â—r which was hanged by iust iudgement not for any cause and matter of faith but for euident and wicked feloâ—â—e Or that any ecclesiasticall persons were depriued then of their benefices or excoÌ„municâ—ted owt of church and liuyng for that they refused to sweare against the authoritie of thâ— Bishope of Rome Or that any suche othe was vsed to be put vnto any man at that tyme Or that any fâ—yer of threescore yeares obteinyng afterwardes the Româ— of a Bishop maried a young woman of .xix. yeares Or that any Bishopp then preached to be all one to praye on a dunghyll and in a churche Or that any but heretikes refused to subscribe to a general and lawful couÌ„cell gathered and confirmed by the Bishop of Rome his authoritie These be the highest misteries and greatest keies of their religioÌ„ and without these their doctrine can neuer be mainteyned and staÌ„d vpright Yf any one therefor of all owr aduersaries be able to auouch any one of all these articles by any such sufficient authoritie of Scriptures doctors or Councels as I haue required as I sayd before so saie I now againe I am content to yeld vnto hym and to subscribe in that poynt which I wold neuer do nor might do vnto an heretike knowing that my faith must not hang vpon the euent of disputation yet seing I haue begon to playe the foole with a â—oole therefor I vse this terme of subscribing as I do lerne it of master Iuell But I am well assured they shal neuer be able trulye to alleage one sentence And because I know u therefor I speake it least any happelie should be deceaued And thus far furth to the imitation of master Iuell Factus sum insipiens vos me coëgistis But what now might any protestant think of this challenge will he not mislike with me that emong so manye articles as I reherse with great solemnitie so few are of weight and substance will he not be moued at the very hart that for indiffereÌ„t matters and reasonable ceremonies I shall require yet to haue their proufe out of the first six hundred yeares after Christ and owt of generall councells or auncient doctours or els make an exclamation agaynst the keeping of them will it not greiue hym that I stick vpon termes which can neuer be fownd in the cumpasse of the primitiue church which if their principles were true woulde folowe yet well inowgh of them And that leauyng the principle I presse hym with the particular word of some conclusion will it not anger hym Can he take it for indifferent dealing that I rekon vp some ones priuate opinion and make as thowgh it were the generall determination of all the protestantes in the world And when I haue gathered vp a number of articles of which the greater part conteineth indifferent or simple matters to coÌ„clude of theÌ„ all in one sum without order or distinction and boldlie to saye These be the highest misteries and greatest keies of their religioÌ„ and without these their doctrine can neuer be mainteined and stand vpright can the protestant hearing or reading this if he haue any spirite of trueth or honestie think that I were to be trusted in any point with the teaching or guyding of the ignorant yet I assure you marke it who will M. Iuells most gloriouse challenge hath no better reason or substaÌ„ce in it for of so manye his ors and interrogatories to make a shew and colour of great copie and store of matter I 〈…〉 of them which be not either of 〈◊〉 poyntes and quidditiesâ— without â—â—â—cussing and examinyng of which the Catholike faith continueth 〈◊〉 â—nowgh or els about orders and 〈◊〉 of which the gouernours of 〈◊〉 church haue the making or remouing in their discretion Now therefor if this maner of owr challenge be mislyked I am gladd that in aunswering a foole accordyng to his foolishnes I haue geauen warnyng to the Reader not to make of euerie rare thing and much praised a Iuell and to be ware euer of great faces sett vpon small and simple matters As on the other syde if for M. Iuells sake and honor this my challenge framed after the example of his shall stand for a reasonable one and tolerable lett me be answered then in the particulars and except I doe replie againe and that speedelie I with others will yeld vnto hym Yet now because the wyseman hath sayed not onlie aunswer a foole according to his foolishnes but rather and before this warned vs with doe not answer a foole according to his folisshnes lest thow be made lyke vnto hym I will not therfor rest and staye vpon the forsaid challenge but come furth with an other full of great and principall matters neither will I be lyke the protestant and troble the reader with questions of small importauÌ„ce but of substanciall and necessarie articles concerning the orders of this present lyfe or the hope of the lyfe euerlasting I make for the Catholikes honor this challenge and prouoke him that can to encouÌ„ter me I except none thowgh I lyke not all for who would be matched with the bold and blind brothers willinglie but I trust who so euer replyeth he shall be superintended so wiselye that his aunswer shall not come against me but with good authoritie and priuileage I saye therefor If any single one of owr aduersaries or they all conmunicating togeather can proue by any suficient testimonie out of Scriptures Doctors or CouÌ„cells That for the space of six hundred yeares after Christ hys ascension by which hundreds onlie they would be tryed in examining of veritie It was vnlawfull to make a vowe to God of chastitie obedience or pouertye or that breakers of such vowes were estemed aboue others as singular witnesses of the libertye of Christ his true Ghospell Or that it was abhominable then to make to hym any speciall sacrifice besides the sacrifice of owr thankes in wordes and figures for his benefites with remembrance of Christ his passion for vs and besides the offering of owr sowles and bodies to