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A65055 Vindiciæ revindicate being an answer to Mr. Baxters book intituled Catholick communion doubly defended, by Dr. Owen's vindicator and Richard Baxter, and Mr. Baxter's notions of the saints repentance and displeasure in heaven, considered / by a lover of truth and peace in sincerity. Lover of truth and peace. 1684 (1684) Wing V543; ESTC R38022 37,543 50

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long while But Sir you might have remembred what I said Page 29. but it was not for your turn There is no Pari●y in a Word or Sentence exceptionable in a Conceived Prayer extempore with the Lyturgy in its intire form with all known or doubtful Circumstances Many may be sound who in Conceived extempore Prayer do not pollute them with failings in the matter and others that have Errors in their minds do not put them into the Words of their Prayers So that Communion with these more able Orthodox men is nothing so dangerous nor lyable to your Recrimination There remains one thing more in which you sum up your sence of you Argumentations in this Paragraph and it is by a Similitude which proves nothing But if it may help us to understand your meaning I will not Envy my Reader the sight of it It is lawful say you to drink beer that hath bad water mixt rather than none But not to drink that which hath Poyson equally mixt Answ Here is a Ratherism and a down-right Negative The first if I can understand you is meant of our Lyturgy the latter of the Popish Mass But to follow your Similitude must one of these be our Election must we take this bad mixture or not drink at all and consequently die of a sullen Humour or a Pallate more nice than wise You can tell a better way than either and that is to drink that which is more pure wholsom and relishable if it may be had for Love or Money And you believe Sir they may have better that will but go to the Cost on 't though sometimes you express Peters pity Be it far from thee this shall not be unto thee Mat. 16.23 And you know what thanks he had for it from his Master For the latter you are more out or more short or both It is not lawful to drink that which hath Poyson equally mixt you are more out because 't is less to the Purpose Remember Sir you are proving that 't is the the kind that 's in Conjunction which makes the Worship unlawful and now you are come from the quale to the quantum and in truth to both Poyson the quale equally mixt the quantum If I said also that 't is more short 't is proveable enough for should we take no better heed than to your Direction we were in the Eyes of all Men and your own too when you look on this Passage again utterly undone May we drink Poyson so there be not full as much Poyson as better Liquor in the Draught or any Poyson at all I know Sir though you have ●o●ded it thus unhappily your meaning is still we may go to the Lyturgy rather then to the Mass And I am so far of your mind but as to what you have yet said res●at Probandum You proceed and say To page 29. of my Vindication I think if a Turk pray against Idolatry Murder c. that Prayer is materially good But as to goodness from a holy Principle no Hypocrites is good You had said in your Answer to the Manuscript page 7. Heathens and Turks have good Prayers but may we joyn with them you have not told us why not but only in Case of their being twisted with such Heresie and Idolatry But I had denyed Heathens and Turks having good Prayers because without Faith in Christ though they may be Prayers for some good thing This Doctrine you cannot bear it being in Contradiction to what had past the Warranty of your Pen but you will bring it over to another Tryal and you will say they may be materially good I said so before but that does not so well like you but being for the matter good they must be good Prayers I will put you a few Cases to see how your Rule looks Suppose a man utter the matter of a good Petition in Sport or Derision of Religion as has been sometimes in Playes are they good Prayers Conjuring shall have good Prayers too by this Rule for sometimes it contains some matter of Petition for good The Heathen prayed to Bacchus for a good Vintage to Ceres for a good Harvest The matter of their Prayers were good though directed to Idols but by your Rule these are to be justified as good Prayers How dear is self defence that will not permit an Eminent Christian Divine to allow that there can be no good Prayers without Faith in Christ but it must be distinguished out of doors to save the Turks and Heathens good Prayers because he had unadvisedly said they had good Prayers You Conclude this Argument saying The Insufficiency of my Answer you no way manifest 'till you prove that I must joyn with all that is in publick Worship or with none If so your Answer is unanswerable but though I attempt no such impossible things I will be content to stand to the Readers Judgment that doth not allow a name to weigh too much if your Answer be not apparently insufficient Yet Sir beside what I have already said to difference the faults of the Worship I have described and that other Worship you will bring under the same difficulty I will add that where Worship is according to Divine Institution which doth not suppose them obliged by it to be Angels but men men subject to Infirmities And these men do Profess so far as they have attained to walk by the rule of Gods Word and to reform and rise to a nearer Conformity to the Divine Rule as they shall be able to understand it And their Worship contains nothing in it either by excess or defect which excludes the Essentials of Christian Worship acceptable to God through Christ when tendred in Sincerity I believe these may be joyned with without partaking with their Sins in Worship while I am not immediately guilty of the same Sins This may be said of the fore-described And worthy Sir I know not by what other medium to set up a Fence against the most polluted Worship in the World that hath somewhat good in it and pretending God the Object When Temptation is at the door meer mental Distinctions will undo all and betray Religion Peice-meal If you or any other can instruct me better I shall be thankful for it In the mean time I am well content with what I have said SECT III. The Remains of what Mr. Baxter saith in his Defence against my Discharge of Dr. Owens pretended Errors Considered SIR The Doctor so far as concerned in the first Error by you charged on him being after so large an Encounter Revindicated You making me little to do and next to nothing about all the rest you have spared me much farther travail in that Province I hear no more of your Proof of the other seven or eight which I defended to be the Doctors Errors or any Bodies else except in two Passages which I shall also Consider You say page 27. Some other Practical Doctrines we differ about as where you report