thou assay so mightie weapons If peace be abroad thou makest war at home neither can thy fierce pride away with rest Thou settest brother against brother father against sonne thou venterest on al mischief hatchest al vilany thou regardest neither right nor law thou beguilest both God man thou feaâ—est neither heauen nor hell Auentinus a man likewise of your side and not long since aliue complaineth not without cause Since the Bishop of Rome hath so great power why doth he not vse it since the haruest is so great why doth hee not reape why doth he not feed when he seeth so many sheepe die for hunger Why doth he set ouer the flocke goates wolues libidinous adulterous persons abusers of virgins and Nunnes cookes Mulettors theeues banckers vsurers drones hunters after gayne luxurious perfidious forsworne ignorant asses I speake not by hearesay I write that I see with these eyes Why doth he coÌ„mit sheepe to wolues why doth he suffer his flocke to be in subiection to most pernitious hypocrites prouiding only for their owne bellies nay why doth hee let boyes wantons rule his lambes I am ashamed to say what manner of Bishops we haue With the reuenues of the poore they feede houndes horses I need not say whores they quaffe they make loue flee all learning as infection Such is the miserie of these times we may not speak that we thinke nor thinke that we speake As for the sheepe committed to their charge to sheere them strip them and kill them as euery man list vnder a pretence of deuotion is now an auncient custome If one witnes be not sufficient you shal haue more those of your not our religion to confesse the same Palingenius an Italian suppliant to the Church of Rome describeth at large the monsterous corruption of your Romane Clergie Sed tua praecipue non intret limina quisquam Frater vel Monachus vel quauis lege sacerdos Hos fuge pestis enim nulla hac immanior Hi sunt Faex hominum fons stultitiae sentina malorum Agnorum sub pelle lupi mercede colentes Non pâ—etate Deum falsa sub imagine recti Decipiunt stolidos ac relligionis in vmbra Mille actus vetitos mille piacula condunt Raptores moechi puerorum corruptores Luxuriae atque gulae famuli celestia vendunt Hos impostores igitur vulpesque dolosas Pelle procul Mystae vafrique cuculli Quos castos decet esse palam cum pellicibus vel Furtim cum pueris matronis virginibusque Nocte dieque subant sunt qui consanguiniarum Inguinibus gaudent ineunt pecudes quoque multi Prô pudor hos tolerare potest ecclesia porcos Duntaxat ventri veneri somnoque vacantes Let no Frier Monke or any Priest come within thy dores Take heede of them no greater mischiefe These are the dregges of men the fountaines of follie the sinckes of sinne wolues vnder lambes skinnes sâ—ruing God for reward not deuotion deceiuing the simple with a false shewe of honestie and vnder the shadow of religion hyding a thousand vnlawfull actes a thousand haynous offences committers of rapes fornicators abusers of boyes slaues of gluttonie and luxurie they sel heauenly things These imposters craftie foxes chase farre from thee The Priests and Monkes that shoulde bee chast spend night and day either openly with whoores or closely with boyes matrones and maydes Some spare neither blood nor beast O shame Can the Church endure such hogs giuen only to feed their bellies satisfie their lusts and take their ease Cornelius one of the bishops that were present at your late councel of Trent in the midst of your assemblie doth acknowlege that to be true which Auentinus and Palingenius before complayned of With what monsters of filthines saith he with what canel of vncleannes with what pestiferous contagion are not both people and priests defiled and corrupted in the holy church of God I make your selues Iudges and beginne at the sanctuarie of God if there were any shamefastnes any chastitie any hope or helpe of honest conuersation left if there were not lust vnbridled and vntamed singular boldnes and incredible wickednes For those two bloodsuckers which alwayes crie bring bring one the mother the other the nource of all euill I meane couetousnes ambition either a secrete and subtile mischiefe poyson plague and monster of the worlde whiles learning and vertue are despised and in their places ignorance vice highly aduanced by those whom we should take for quicke and liuing lawes haue brought to passe that edification is changed to destruction examples to offences custome to corruption regard of lawes to contempt thereof seueritie to slacknes mercie to impunitie pietie to hypocrisie preaching to contention solemne dayes to filthie Marâ—es and that which is most vnhappie the sauour of life to the sauour of death Would god they were not fallen with one consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist yea from God to Epicurisme saying with their wicked hearts and shamelesse faces there is no God The Turkes proude with the victories and rich with the spoyles that they haue gotten froÌ„ ChristiaÌ„s grew not by their own strength but by our corrupt maners they were not so much enemies as scourges from God their weapons assaulted vs but our sinnes preuailed against vs they shewed their fiercenes we suffred for our iniquities And would God we alone had suffered that the sacred admirable name of Christ Iesu had not bin a iest fable amoÌ„g the faithlesse Iewes and Gentiles by reason of vs whose slouthfulnes wickednes is bruted ouer all the world with a most shamefull report Phi. You neede not reproch vs so bitterly your selues bee not free from all faults Theo. I neuer said we were I know these be the later times when iniquitie shall abound and the charitie of many waxe cold yea when men shall be louers of themselues couetous boasters proud cursed speakers vngratefull vnholy vnkinde vnfaithfull slaunderers intemperate fierce headie high minded preferring their pleasures before God as the holy Ghost foretold vs they should Of this soyle many no doubt on either side yours and ours haue a tast at this day but in vnshamefastnes you passe all others that the wide world crying shame on the manifold corruption of your clergie that Citie you only step forth wtout any blushing to denie that which your nearest friends haue confessed with insoleÌ„t words to promise this land high experimeÌ„ts innumerable examples of vertue deuotion as if that sinke of sin were lately become a fouÌ„taine of grace or the famous whore of BabiloÌ„ newly changed into chast IerusaleÌ„ But you must bee borne with your purpose was to lift extoll Gregorie the 13. aboue the skies thereby to kindle his loue and deuotion towards your Colleges as very zealous for his highnes holines which you could not wel do
not carnal hir delights are not outward in flesh but inward in grace the prophet good mā had no leasure to thinke on your farms demeans reuenues This promise must be common to the faithfull not priuat to your cloisterers which in earthly things plied the bottle so fast that they suckt their nurces dry No remedy you must needs yeeld vs that christiā princes in respect of their office not of their riches haue receiued an expresse commandemēt from God to shew thēselues nurces to his church Now nurces by nature must prouide food for their infants defend them from dāger ergo kings queenes in the new testamēt are boūd to tēder the church of Christ by their princely power publik lawes to defend the same from infection of heresies inuasion of schisms all other apparent corruptions of faith good maners Who saith S. Aug. being in his right wits wil say to christiā kings take you no care who defēdeth or impugneth in your realms the church of christ your master Let it not pertain to you who lift to be religious or sacrilegious within your kingdōs And left he should seem skāt resolued in this opinion he biddeth opē defiāce to the Donatists in these words Cry thus if you dare let murders be punished let adulteries be punished let other degrees of lust sinne be punished only sacrileges that is cōtēpt of God his truth or his church we wil not haue punished by princes lawes And againe Will the Donatists though they were cōuinced of a sacrilegious schisme say that it belongeth not to the princes power to correct or punish such things Is it because such powers do not stretch to corrupt false religiō But christiā emperors persecute the Pagās doth that displease thē The works of the flesh Paul nūbreth these fornicatiō vncleanes strife dissentiō heresie drunkēnes such other What thinke these mē may the crime of idolatry be iustly reuēged by the magistrate wel if that like them not why cōfesse they that witches be rightly punished by the rigor of princes lawes will not agnise that heretikes schismatikes may bee repressed by the same seeing Paul doth rehearse them togither with other fruites of iniquity Will they reply that earthly powers are not to medle with such matters of religion To what end then beareth he the sword which is called Gods minister seruing to punish malefactors Certainly Princes c. If this learned father can not fray you from reuiuing the frantick error of the Donatists against the Princes power in matters of religion I trust you will somwhat reuerence the precept which our Sauior in his Gospell gaue the magistrate when he had the first sort of ghestes to be brought to the great supper the second to be forced Go sayth he forth into the wayes and hedges Compell thē to come in that mine house may be filled Wee take wayes sayth Austen for heresies hedges for schismes because wayes in this place signifie the diuersenes and hedges the peruersenes of opinions House God hath none but his house of prayer neither table beside the Lords table So that this seruant is expressely charged to Compel them from heresies and schismes to the confession of truth consent of prayer and communion of the Lordes table To performe this Christ hath left no seruant but the minister or the magistrat no meanes saue the word or the sword To compell heretiks and schismatiks neither is it possible for the preacher if he would nor lawful if he could he lacketh both meanes and leaue to constraine them His calling is with patience to teach not with violence to force to feede not to stryke to reproue with tongue not to subdue with hand Only the Prince beareth the sword which can and may compell recusants and therefore Bishops since they be flatly forbidden to Rayne must not meddle with the material sword being the chiefest part strength of an earthly kingdom neither ought any to draw the sword but he that holdeth it in Gods stead to reward and reuenge Ergo these wordes Compell them to come in that mine house may be filled were spoken to Christian Princes and are to them both a warrant and a charge to represse schismes and heresies with their Princely power which they receiued from aboue cheefly to maintaine Gods glorie by causing the bands of vnitie to be preserued in the Church and the rules of fayth obserued To the same purpose S. Austen in many places alleageth this parable The Lord himself sayth he willed the ghests first to be brought then to be forced What meaneth he by this Compell them to come when as he sayd of the first bring them If he ment they should be compelled by terror of miracles then might the first sort of ghests which saw many diuine wonders be rather thought to be forced but if by the power which the Church receaued at Gods hand in due time through the religion faith of kings those that are found in high wayes hedges that is in heresies schismes must be compelled to come let them not mislike that they be forced This cōmaunding by Princely power occasioneth many to be saued which though they be violently brought to the feast of the great householder and compelled to come yet being within they find cause to reioyce that they did enter for both sorts of commers as well violently forced as willingly brought the Lord fortold hath fulfilled Therfore let earthly princes serue Christ in making Lawes for Christ wherby mē may be forced to come to the great holy banquet yea by banishments other losses let their subiects begin to weigh with themselues what why they suffer learne to prefer the Scriptures which they read before the reportes and cauils of mē I thinke it superfluous to staie longer in confirming so manifest a truth He that is of God heareth the words of God he that impugneth them quarreleth not with Princes which yet is no small offence but with him by whom Princes raigne whose wisedom may not easily be neglected nor will resisted If you deny that this is the Princes charge to see the law of God fully executed his Sonne rightly serued his spouse safely nourced his house timely filled his enemies duely punished you must counteruaile that which Moses prescribed Dauid required Esay prophesied Paul witnessed Christ commaunded with some better sounder authority than theirs is If you grant so much we wil aske no more the Princes duety to God once cōfessed the rest shal quickly be concluded Phi. In a sense it is true that you say Theo. It is simply true that I say for in your owne iudgement may the Christian faith be freely permitted publikely receiued in kingdoms common wealthes Phi. No doubt Theo. May godly discipline be likewise planted and preserued amongest men and the disturbers and neglecters of it repressed and ordered
coÌ„prised their politik obseruations as they be for the most part fals passing slaÌ„derous so to their defeÌ„ce are they idle altogether superfluous and argue rather mindes loaden with malice and tongues fraighted with poyson against the present state euen for very temporall and ciuill affaires than anie religious or dutifull respect of authoritie and submission to the Magistrate But such is the doctrine and education of their Romish seminaries they fell first to flattering and because that tooke no place in a rage they be now run to leude and open slaundering An example whereof to him that hath the booke and may read it appeareth as through the the whole so in fewe lines pag. 177. more spitefull wordes than which the rankest caterpiller in Rome could not haue vttered against the state and kingdom where wee liue not touching the persecution which they suffer but obiecting in plaine wordes to the whole body of her Maiesties most honorable most christian Counsel ignominious practises plaguie iniustice yea euen piracies proditions spiâ—ries soule artes to afflict and coosen the world round about vs with many such disloyall vnnaturall vntrue and vnhonest both surmises and reproches whereof that fardle is full This is one of the reasons why I neither might nor would at large refell their Iesuiticall Defence of English Catholikes as they terme it in deede an artificiall inuectiue defacing and slaundering the publike Gouernment of this realme to the vttermost of their powers The other is for that the summe and effect of those chapters which I haue omitted and might not without offence to the state be published are wholy reduced to those principal questions which I haue handled In their first second and fourth chapters their chiefe scopes are these that Manie Priests catholike in England haue bin condemned executed for meere matter of religion that Campian the rest of the Priests condemned executed vpon pretence of treason were neuer yet guiltie of any such crimes but behaued themselues verie discreetly and nothing seditiously in their answeres to the questions of the Bull of Pius Quintus In these the wise Reader soone perceiueth the whole contention toucheth the Popes iurisdiction and claime denied him by the Lawes of this Realme and his power to depriue the Prince of her crowne and scepter which was the sole respect the Bull of Pius Quintus had The iustifying then of these two foundations with cleare and pregnant proofes had beene requisite for the Iesuites if they had purposed to manifest the innocencie of their brethren where nowe by their rhetoricall vagaries inucighing at the partes and circumstances of their inditementes conuictions and executions they storme at the course which the Iudges obserued but saie nothing to the crime wherewith the guiltie were burdened The Popes power to depriue Princes they will say they haue fully proued and so their brethren in trueth and equitie to be cleared If that were so they sayde somewhat but as I haue shewed they profferre it often they neuer proue it And therefore on the contrarie part as I neede not strengthen the publike iudgements of this Realme with the particular reportes behauiors hopes and enterprises of the Iesuites hauing their triall in Courtes of Recorde and places of vsuall and open iustice neither is that incident to my calling or requisite in these cases so for the maine and generall ground of the crime there fastned on them and after punished in theÌ„ which was that to aide assist persuade or defend the Popes Bull depriuing the Prince of her crowne and throne to incourage her Subiectes or enimies on that pretence to rebellion or inuasion was high and hainous treason the trueth I say of this illation is euident by the third part of this my booke where that point of their Defence is refuted So for the rest which would needes venter their liues in the like quarell I meane for inuesting the Pope with the princes sworde the Iesuites should haue brought sound and sufficient proofe that the Pope by Gods lawe hath a Soueraigne and supreme power ouer this Realme to make Lawes to appoint penalties to dispose the goods landes and bodies of Clerkes and others for such causes and crimes as they count spirituall For this is the power which the Pope lately vsurped in this Realme and from which hee is now rightly and orderly repelled by the Lawes of the same It is no treason with vs to make him chiefe Pastour of your soules nor to giue him an Episcopall or Apostolicall authoritie ouer the whole Church though that also bee a wicked and frantike Heresie but to giue him an externall dominion and coerciue iurisdiction ouer this Realme aboue and against the Prince which the Apostles of Christ neither had nor could haue without apparent iniurie to the Magistrate this is it the Execution of iustice doeth duelie respect and this is farre from any matter of faith or religion Right to commaunde and power to compell belong properly to the sworde by the Lawe of God which they can not attribute to the Pope but they must make him a Superiour Magistrate to the prince in guiding and prescribing the vse of the sworde and consequently the prince to holde her sword and scepter at his pleasure and if she refuse to be streightway displaced This wilie conueiaunce to tie Princes swordes fast to the Popes side and to spoyle them of their Crownes if they doe not execute his rage is the chiefest plotte that Iesuites haue at this instant to resettle the kingdome of Antichrist for which they haue not so much as the paring of anie Scripture or Councell or Father in the Church of Christ for a thowsande yeares and yet in our dayes it must bee a meere matter of Religion and the forefront of their brethrens defence But no maruell if they which make open rebellion a point of their faith so soone consent to haue the Popes presumption holden as the surest key of their Religion To their thirde chapter that they haue great cause to complaine of iniust persecution intollerable seueritie and crueltie towardes Catholikes in Englande and wee no reason to doe the like for the iustice as thy call it doone on vs in Queene Maries and other Princes dayes I neede not replie To this conceite of the Iesuites that they may consume whome they will with fire and faggotte and no man must stoppe them of their passage or hinder their pastimes without iniustice and crueltie what shoulde I saie but that I thinâ—e the Scribe was skant waking whiles hee was penning this drowsie Diuinitie What learning I will not aske what witte was in this to make such definitiue resolutions that no Prince may amerce or imprison their adherentes without intollerable seueritie and crueltie forsooth they might hang and burne olde and young men and women for doubting of their Decretalles and all this with prayse though it neuer pleased anie good man in the Catholike Church
for the redemption of man and the bloodshedding of our Sauiour expressed and resembled in that mysterie More than this no Catholique father euer taught and lesse than this our Churches doe not receiue Touching the Sacramentes I meane baptisme and the Supper if Christ and his Apostles did minister them Catholiquely wee can not fayle but doe the same wee swarue not a iote from their example the Scriptures will not lye let them bee iudges Shewe but one worde element or action added omitted or altered in either of them and we graunt your Apologie to be sound and good which otherwise we see to be replenished with many spitefull slaunders and shamefull errors But if the Catholicisme which you stand on were not knowen to them as in truth it was not the lacke of some ceremonies which be matters indifferent and set your abuses aside may be kept or left without hurting the faith or offending the godly can bee no iust cause for you to flie the realme and forsake the Prince The diuine seruice here established you may lewdly despise you shall hardly disproue the Psalmes that we sing be Dauids the bookes that we read be Canonical the praiers that we make be consonant to the rule proportiō of faith true godlines quitting them for our owne parts to the present possessioners incombents or to whom soeuer God shall permit Theo. You fled the Realme not forced to that extremitie but moued with a priuate dislike of the Princes regiment and therefore if the lack of your Countrey were not eased by many supplies both abroade as you graunt and from home as we know you may thanke your selues you were the first autors and wilfull contriuers of your owne woe You want no commodities nor curtesies in the common wealthes where you liue yet such is your Nicenes that you can not beare the ordinarie difficulties and accidents that follow strangers in euery place without sorowfull bewayling before God and often lamenting one to another the hard state of your long banishment Your dayly praiers haue their dayly purposes your continuall sighes and teares shewe the secret griefe you conceiue to see your counsels disclosed and attempts defeated which rather enforceth the sharpnes of your humor than the goodnes of your cause That you be willing to come home wee well beleeue howbeit that proueth not your departure lawful nor your returne peaceable The Wolfe would fayne be with the sheepe and the Lion is glad to bee with his pray Yet this is no token of their friendly meaning To preuent all suspicion of euill you deepely protest that you voyd your thoughts of honour and preferment relinquishing those to the present incumbents and addressing your selues to serue the poore soules to their saluation The strife betwixt vs is not for Bishoprickes and benefices but for Christs glorie and the Princes safetie whom God hath appointed both your and our Soueraigne and therefore your renouncing of titles and dignities before hand sauoreth of your accustomed vanitie and nothing concerneth the matter Saluation of soules is well pretended but ill perfourmed Your bores of oyle your glasses of holy water your fardles of other consecrated trifles wherewith you haue fraighted this Realme are slender helpes to saue soules nay rather your reconciling of those that receiue you to the Sea of Rome your trayning them to neglect of the scriptures and reuerence of your fansies your leading them from the Church of God and communion of their brethren to your barbarous and Idolatrous Masse your withdrawing them from their obedience to the Princes wholesome and Christian lawes is their vtter destruction and your assured condemnation Yet to proue your selues louing wormes you wish to be admitted to your Countrie in what state soeuer were it in penance and pouertie neuer so great euen so the snake being frozen lyeth quiet and still waxing once warme hee vseth not onely to stirre but also to sting Your sugred words can not sweeten the bitternes of your actions God hath blessed her Maiestie with greater respect of religion than to suffer the veneme of your doctrine to poyson her people and with better intelligence of your drifts than to harbour a rowte of Iesuites the very forerunners and factours of her open and professed enemie The Pageants of your holy father and founder were so lately tried and are so iustly feared that her highnes neither with her safetie may neither of her wisedome will permit you to beginne a newe reuell Her graue and worthie Counsell perceiue that a small leake sinketh a strong vessell and the least sparke kindleth a mightie flame Phi. Call you this answering You say what you list without warrant or witnes Theo. And what did you when you sent vs ouer whole chapters yea the most part of your Apologie bringing no better nor other reason nor proofe than your simple worde which is God knoweth a single proofe Phi. You will hardly speake well of our doings or writings Theo. Let your booke be seene If I lye reproue me Your first chapter hath in all fiue authorities and not one of them toucheth any matter in question The three first shewe that certaine Arrian Emperours suffered true and false religion in one Citie a proper president for Christian Princes the two next proue that godly men assembled in priuate houses when they coulde not in Churches for feare of persecution Wee neuer sayde otherwise Your seconde chapter hath fiue other places besides the first booke of Bede which wee doubt not of Three declaring that the Romanes twelue hundred yeres agoe were deuout and charitable which is nothing to our dayes or your purpose the other two you safely enforce to helpe the Sea of Rome and yet were they so ment they conclude but coldly for you Your third chapter alleageth S. Austen twise mary not against vs but at rouers to make vp your reckoning and once S. Hierom warning a gentlewoman of Rome to preferre the fayth of Innocentius and Anastasius which at that time he knew to be sound and syncere before certaine poysoned plants then freshly springing in Rome This aduise wee refuse not and at this day we seeke to recall your holy father from his newe found heresie and tyrannie to the right imitation of their fayth and humilitie that were godly learned and auncient bishops in that Sea before him On your fourth and fift chapters which are the chiefe strength and force of your Apologie you bestowe some more cost but not much or at lest not much to the matter in question Your fourth chapter euen at first entrance you fill the page with eleuen texts of scriptures declaring what promises assistance from God the true preachers and ministers of his word haue then alleage you S. Paul prohibiting women to teach or speake in the Church and S. Peter calling Princes humane creatures these be things that wee neither doubt of nor striue for This done you draw neere the
from shrine to shrine to encrease your offerings which wickednes if S. Hierom had seene in his time he would haue taunted you a litle better than euer he did Vigilantius In the prayers which were made to God at his Altar we graunt with S. Austine The commendation of the dead by the custome of the Vniuersall Church had a speciall place but your prayer for soules in Purgatorie was neuer Catholique And where you send vs to S. Austens Enchiridion ca. 110. for that kind of prayer looke againe to the wordes and you shall find there no certaine doctrine but a doubtfull diuision consisting of three partes and not one of them prouing your Purgatorie When the sacrifices of the Altar or any other almes are offered for all that were baptized before they died for such as are very good they be saith he thankesgiuings to God for those that be not altogether ill they be propitiations that is procuring of mercie for such as be very bad though they be no helpers to the dead they bee some comforts to the liuing and whome they profite they profite them thus farre either to purchase them ful remission or at least more tolerable damnation The first part of this diuision that sacrifices for the dead are thankesgiuings to God is a poynt that now you can not heare of the last that they comfort the liuing but helpe not the dead by no meanes you will admit the middle is it that you stand on and that is nothing but this whom they profit they procure either full remission or at lest a more tolerable damnation Where S. Austen doth not affirme which of the twaine they shall procure but vseth a disiunctiue and of the twaine rather enclineth to the later as the likelier by correcting him selfe in this wise they shall haue remission or at lest a more tolerable damnation And for your better assurance that S. Austen on whom you relie neuer taught your Purgatorie for a matter of Catholique faith we send you back to the same father and the same booke the 69. chapter where he sayth It is not incredible that there is some such thing after this life and whether it be so it may be a question and it may be either found out or lie hid that some of the faithfull obteine saluation by a Purgatorie fire so much the sooner or later by howe much the more or lesse they loued the transitorie goods of this life If it may lie hid then is it no ground of Christian faith which must be fully beleeued of all men neither coulde the prayers of the Church depende vpon the doubtfull opinion of Purgatorie which by S. Austens owne iudgement is superfluous to be discussed and most dangerous to be resolued The rest of your places in this chapter amounting to the number often doe you litle good and vs lesse harme we receiue them without exception or distinction The words of Maximinus the Arrian you wittingly peruert to make them like ours wherein you discouer your malice and touch not our doctrine for Arius as you may reade in that disputation which Athanasius had with him vpbrayded the fathers for vsing the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not found in all the bookes of the new or old testament whereas the Church of Christ alwayes professed to beleeue nothing but what was plainely written in the sacred scriptures The selfe same cauil Maximinus vrged S. Augustine with Hae verò voces quae extra scripturam sunt nullo casu a nobis suscipiuntur These wordes and not as you translate these sayings which are not in the scripture by no meanes we receiue This obiection wee grant was both foolish and hereticall and if wee vrge you with any such spare vs not We striue with you not for names words but for poynts and Principles of faith and those we say must bee proued by the scriptures S. Paul sayd so before vs Faith is by hearing hearing out of the word of God Mauger your traditions and vnwritten verities this is a Christian and Catholique position which all the fathers confirme with one consent as shall be shewed in place conuenient In the meane time wee saie with Basill that I trowe was no Arrian Manifestus est a fide lapsus crimen maximae superbiae vel a scripto recedere vel non scriptum admittere It is a manifest fall from faith and a sinne that argueth infinite pride either to leaue that which is written or admit that which is not written Your sixt chapter handleth no matter of religion as being purposely made to excuse you from Treason and hath nothing in it any way materiall saue onely that vpon the name of Masse-priest you fall into a great rage and will needes proue the Apostles themselues the ancient fathers of all ages were masse priests And that you do ful clarkly For wheresoeuer you find the word oblation or sacrifice in any father you presently put him in the Decke for a masse-Priest I maruaile you be not ashamed professing so deepe knowledge to send vs ouer such vaine trifles The very children in England doe knowe the Lordes supper is a sacrifice of thankesgiuing a memoriall of Christes oblation on the crosse dayly renewing his death in a mysterie which is the true meaning of the twelue places that here you bring and of twelue hundred mo that might be brought to the like effect but this is nothing to the sacrifice of your masse where you professe that Christ is couered with accidents of bread and wine and offered really with your handes to God his father for the remission of your sinnes shewe but one father for this kinde of sacrifice and we will agnise not onely these whome you name but also Melchisedec and Malachie for Masse-priests Searching fiue hundred foure score and thirteene yeres after Christ with al diligence you find the worde Missa twise once in Ambrose and once in Leo and in a brauerie you demaund of vs Were they Masse-priests that sayd those masses But what if the word Missa did then not signifie the Masse but a dismissing of the Catechists before and of the faithful after the Lords supper where is your great and glorious triumphe become Looke to the fourth Counsell of Carthage the 84. Canon Let the Bishop forbid no man to enter the Church and heare the word of God neither Iew Gentile nor heretike vsque ad missam Catechumenorum that is till the Catechists be sent away not vntil the Catechists masse For they which were not yet baptized could not be present at the ministration of the Lords supper therefore Missa doth signifie the dismissing of them as the manner was in the primitiue Church to send away first the Catechists next the Repentants and last of all to giue the faithfull leaue to depart when the communion was ended which three dimissions were sometime called in the plurall number Missae
wils you be deceiued not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God which maketh those willing at last which were vnwilling at first Did the Niniuites repent against their willes because they did it at the compulsion of their king What needed the kings expresse commandement that all men should humbly submit themselues to God but that there were some amongst them which neither would haue regarded nor beleeued Gods message had they not bene terrified by the kings edict This Princely power and authoritie giueth many mē occasion to be saued which though they were violently brought to the feast of the great housholder yet being once cōpelled to come in they find there good cause to reioyce that they did enter against their willes When Petilian obiected that no man must be forced by lawes to doe well or to beleeue S. Austen replieth To faith in deed may no man vnwilling bee forced but yet by Gods iustice or rather mercy The breath of faith is chastened with the rod of affliction Because the best thinges are freely chosen with good lyking must not therefore ill deedes be punished by syncere Lawes You be not forced to doe well by these lawes that are made against you but forbidden to doe euill Preposterous were discipline to reuenge your ill liuing but when you first contemne the doctrine that teacheth you to liue well And euen they which make lawes to bridle your headynes are they not those which beare the sworde as Paul speaketh not without cause being Gods ministers and executors of wrath on him that doth ill Who list to be farther satisfied that Christian Princes may compel their subiects to the true worship of God prescribed in his word and punish the refusers let him read at large the places aboue cited or shortly consider that the spirit of God cōmendeth king Iosiah for making all Ierusalem and Beniamin to stand to the couenant which he renewed with God and COMPELLING ALL THAT WERE FOVND IN ISRAEL TO SERVE THE LORD THEIR GOD. So that you might haue well spared your wanton complaint to God and kept in your Crocodiles teares Your Soueraigne doeth nothing against you but what is agreeable to Gods and mans lawe consonant to the doctrine of our Churhes much easier than that which your selues practised on others neither is this our question what rites you consented vnto but what fayth Christ deliuered his Church in the writings of his Apostles and Euangelists for to that euery man which is baptised may bee lawfully forced by the Princes authoritie let him and his forefathers assent to what they list except you can proue that baptisme serueth no longer for a sacrament of Christian religion but goeth now for a Romish recognisance Phi. Our griefe of heart is much encreased either when we looke into other States and Countries as Germania Suitzerland Suecia Boemia and the like where though there haue bene great alterations in religion these late yeeres yet lightly none bee forced so but if they can not haue the exercise of their profession in one torritorie Canton towne Church or Parish yet they may haue it neere them in an other as also in all the Prouinces and Kingdomes subiect either to the Persians or the Turke at this day The old Christians be permitted to vse freely their deuotions or when we looke backe to the like distresses of Catholikes in old time when certaine Emperours were chiefe fautors of Arianisme and other Sectes who yet were often enduced of their naturall benignitie to yeeld certaine Churches or at lest Oratories in Churchyards and other places adioyning for the Catholique seruice in their dominions So did Constantius the Arian Emperour Valens graunt to S. Athanasius and his followers in Alexandria which Valens God plagued afterward because he would not suffer the same at Antioche Valentinian also the yonger profered the like to S. Ambrose in Millan Theo. Are you well in your wits to lament the lacke of that in this Realme which God in plaine words detesteth and with sore plagues reuengeth Haue you forgotten how sharply king Achab and the commons of Israel were reproued of Elias for that error He did not say why permit you not those that will to the Lord those that list to Baal but how long halt you betweene two sides or opiniōs If the Lord be God follow him forsaking al other if Baal be God get you after him Since then it is confessed on both partes yours and ours that there can bee no God saue the Lord and hee neuer ment to surrender any piece of his glorie but is so ielous of it that hee wil be serued and onely serued with all our heart mind and strength these things I say being out of question I recken it can not stande with a Princes duetie to reuerse this heauenly decree THOV SHALT VVORSHIP THE LORD THY GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALT THOV SERVE with establishing two religions in one Realme the first authorized by Christ bequeathed in his testament to the Church the next inuented of Antichrist and flatly repugnant to the propheticall and Apostolicall scriptures For if God be trueth they which presume to worship him with lies as in contrarie faith must needes come to passe serue nowe not God but the deuill a lyer himselfe and the father of lyes whose seruice no Christian Prince may so much as tolerate What are saith Vincentius strange Gods but strange errors which the scriptures so cal figuratiuely for that heretiques reuerence their opinions no lesse than the Gentiles their Gods By the which wee learne that the first precept forbidding moe Gods than one barreth all other seruices of the same God saue that which himselfe hath appointed for himselfe It is the vilest basest kinde of idolatrie when men worship their owne fansies obseruing that for a religion which their deceiued and swelling minds imagine Then may not Princes winke at corrupt vitious religion which is an inward ghostly worship of Idoles seeing no man therefore no Prince can serue two masters the seruice that Princes yeelde Christ in respect of their royall vocation consisteth in making lawes for Christ which if they doe likewise for Antichrist it can not be salued but that they serue God and Mammon or rather cease to bee the seruaunts of Christ in that they renounce their master by seruing his aduersarie Nowe what accompt God will exact for his name blasphemed his sonne refused his sacraments prophaned his word exiled and what answere must be made for the ruine of faith haruest of sinne murder of soules consequent alwaies to the publique freedome of heresies I leaue to bee fully considered and wisely preuented by Christian Magistrates who must thinke that silence prouoketh sufferance boldeneth their subiectes to forsake God and his Church euen as in ciuill affaires the slacking of iustice doth maintaine disorder So that in this point your defender betrayeth his vnsetled humor which
against our Soueraigne you neither may nor doe refuse to bee commenders assisters perfourmers of his vngodlie purposes tende they neuer so much to the preiudice of this Realme and disturbance of her Maiesties Title State and wel-fare Which tyranous vsurpation in him and trayterous affection in you no Father that is Catholicke did euer allowe no Prince that is auncient did euer endure And as for your skattered and maymed examples which here you heape to fraie the simple with emptie names and loftie words not one of them auoucheth and such matter or meaning Phi. If they prooue not the Popes iurisdiction ouer Princes which you stoutelie denie yet I trust they proue that wee may sende or goe to Rome to bee resolued in doubtes of Religion and to bee relieued in times of affliction which is all wee require Theophil Counsell in cases of fayth and comforte in dayes of daunger bee no signes of authoritie but dewties of Charitie neyther those peculiar to the Bishoppe of Rome but common to the whole Church of God and therefore if your examples reache no farther but that Princes haue beene sometimes aduised and other good men harbored by the Bishops of Rome whiles the Citie was famous for learning and religion you take great paines to proue that which neither helpeth you nor hindereth vs. All this may bee graunted and your running to Rome no whit the sooner concluded to bee lawfull Phi. What reason barreth vs now from trauelling to Rome more than others heretofore Theo. Your holie Father pretendeth and exerciseth in our daies a monstrous and pernicious power ouer the Church of Christ which at that time when these godly men wrote and repayred to Rome was neither attempted by him nor mistrusted by them So that they might resort to the Bishop of Rome as to their fellow seruaunt without offence to the Church or contempt to the state because the Bishops then behaued themselues as religious members not as presumptuous heades of the Church and liued as subiectes not as superiors to the Prince you can now not flie to the Bishop of Rome but you must do violent wrong to them both to the Prince by renouÌ„cing your subiection breaking your oth and bearing armes against your liege Ladie when the Pope commaundeth to the Church in thinking teaching the Bishop of Rome to bee the decider of all doubtes vpholder of all truth expounder of all Scriptures Confirmer of all Councelles dispenser with all lawes yea supreme and infallible Iudge of all men and all matters that any waie touch or concerne Religion Which strange and incredible pride those examples which you bring are so far from allowing that we need no better witnesse to confute you with Phi. You doe but iest I dare saie Theo. Examine the particulars you shall finde them make cleane against you or at least nothing for you The Bishop of Rome you saie gaue vs our first faith in the time of the Britanes restored it afterward in the dayes of the English recouered vs from Paganisme from Arianisme from Pelagianisme from Zwinglianisme This last I may skip as a fond effect of your distempered choler The Gospell nowe preached among vs you call in your heat Zwinglianisme from the which though some of you be lightly stept I trust in God the worst your holie Father can doe shall neuer remoue vs. That this lande was infected with Arianisme and Pelagianisme as manie other places then were I finde it reported in the storie of Bede that the Bishop of Rome recouered vs from both or from either I finde it not yea rather certaine it is the Bishoppes of Fraunce our neighbours vppon request made vnto them by the Britanes sent Germanus and Lupus two french Bishoppes chosen in a Synode by the generall liking to conuert this Realme from Pelagius error which also they did with great celeritie So that of those foure recoueries to the faith which you reckon in fauour of the Bishoppes of Rome the last is the present estate which we striue for the two next be false the first is only left that furthereth your conclusion but little Phi. Will you denie that the Bishop of Rome first caused the Britanes and Saxons to bee christened Theo. I will denie nothing that is true presume you no more than you proue and we shall soone growe to an ende Lucius an auncient king of the Britanes wrote to Eleutherius Bishop of Rome for his helpe that him selfe and his people might be baptised and Gregorie the great sent Augustine the Moncke to see whether he could king Edelbert and the Saxons Doth this proue the Pope superiour to Princes or that he may send his factours hither without the Princes leaue Phi. There was somewhat in it that Lucius sent so farre Theo. This Realme was then rude learning here skant religion newly sprong no where setled Coilus his father brought vp at Rome from a child and one that of his owne accorde yeelded both friendship and tribute to the Romanes Lucius himselfe a great fauourer of the Romane Empire and no place neere home so famous well furnished with able men to serue his turne as Rome What maruaile then if Lucius so wel acquainted and frinded at Rome before thought best to be thence directed and instructed at his first entrie to the Christian faith But can you proue that Lucius was bounde to doe that hee did or that Eleutherius did any thing against the Princes will Phi. I say not so Theo. Then this example maketh litle for you which be sent hither not only without the Princes leaue but against her liking and Lawes to withdrawe the peoples hearts from her and to prepare them for a farther purpose Gregories fact in sending to conuert the Saxons maketh lesse For Augustine and his felowes notwithstanding they were sent from Rome as you are and taught nothing but subiection and obedience to Princes which you doe not yet woulde they not enter this land without the kings consent and permission but rested in the Isle of Tenet til his pleasure were knowne and offered not to preach in this Realme before the king in expresse wordes gaue them licence They came not in disguised as you doe they lurked not in corners they traueled not by night they brought no bulles in their bosomes to discharge the subiects and depose the Prince the Bishop of Rome that sent them neither stirred rebellion nor inuaded king Edelberts dominion And where you being subiects offer that wrong to a Christian Queene which they being straungers did not to an heathen king yet would you beare men in hand you follow their example but lay downe the true report of these stories and see howe handsomely they fitte your conclusion Eleutherius being requested by king Lucius sent some to baptise him and his subiects and Gregorie sent others to tâ—â—e whether king Edelbert woulde giue them leaue to preach to the Saxons ergo you may flee to the Bishoppe of
and Bishops that were called by the king for this purpose without conuiction or confession of his gaue iudgement against him alleaging and protesting the priuilege of himselfe his church The Archbishop driuen to this extremity and forsaken of al the rest of the Bishops hoysed the crosse which he held in his hand aloft marched away frō the kings court in the eyes of thē al the next night stale frō the place gate him ouer to Flaūders so to the Pope He brake the oth which he took for the keeping of the foresaid lawes liberties of the crown he claimed a freedom for theeues murderers y◠they should not be subiect to the princes power he refused the kings court appealed to the pope for a matter of debt lest he shuld rēder an accoūt of his tēporal office whiles he was Chācelor which of these three points cā you now with learning or honestie defend Phi. The liberty of the holy Church is a iust good quarell for a man to die in Theo. If you meane thereby an impunitie for mutherers such like offendors then is it a most wicked and irreligious part for a Bishop to open his mouth for such libertie much more to resist his Prince for that quarrell Phi. His quarrel was better than so Theo. Neubrigensis a man of that age and one that honored the person and praised the zeale of Th. Becket reporteth thus of the quarell betweene the king him The king saith he was aduertised by his Iudges that many crimes were committed by clergie mē against the lawes of his Realm as thefts roberies murders In so much that in his audiēce it was they say declared that more than an hundred murders were done in England by clergie men in the time of his raigne Wherefore the king very much kindled in a vehement spirit made lawes against malefactors of the clergie which hee thought to make the stronger by the cōsent of the Bishops Calling therefore the Bishoppes togither hee so plied them what with faire meanes what with foule that they al saue one thought it best to yeeld and obey the kings will and set their seales to those new statutes I say all saue one for the Archbishop of Canterburie would not bow but stood immoueable Whereupon the king began to be greatly offended with him and seeking all occasions to resist him called him to account for those things which he had done before as Chauncellour of the Realme Now must you shewe that by Gods lawes theeues and homicides if they be clerks may not be punished by the princes sword or if you dare not plead that in these dayes for very shame then must you grant that your Canterbury saint resisting his Prince where he should not was an Archrebell against God and the Magistrate one of these twaine you must needes choose Phi. We shal digresse too far if we discusse these things in this place Theo. Your stomake I see doth not serue you at this present wee shall haue some other oportunitie to debate the same in the meane time learne what lawes king Hērie the 2. enacted executed in spite of your holy father his deuout chaplin The king at the returne of his Legates perceiuing his request for the confirmation of his ancient liberties to be repelled by the Pope not a little offended therewith wrote letters to all his Shirifes Lieutenants in England on this wise I command you that if any clergie man or lay men in your coūtie appeale to the court of Rome you attach him hold him in fast ward till our pleasure be known And to his Iudges in this sort If any man be foūd to bring letters or mandate from the Pope or from Thomas the Archbishop interdicting the Realme of England let him be taken and kept in prison till I send word what shal be done with him The four that wrate the life extol the facts of Th. Becket ad to this law Let him be streightway apprehended for a traitor execution done vpon him Also let no clerk monk canon or other religious person go ouer the Seas without letters of pasport frō vs of our officer if any venture otherwise let him be taken cast into prison Let no man appeale to the Pope or to Th. the Archbishop neither let any suite surcease at their cōmandement If any Bishop Abbot Clerk or lay man shal obserue their sentence interdicting our Land presently let him bee banished the Realme and all his kindred with him and their goods and landes confiscated Let the Bishops of London and Norwich bee summoned to appeare before our Iustices and there to answere for interdicting the Land and excommunicating the person of Earle Hugh contrarie to the Statutes of our Realm Thus far the valiant worthie Prince went in defending his Lawes liberties against the Bishop of Rome how far hee would haue gone but that the time was not yet come when God would deliuer his Church from the yoke of Antichrist appeareth by an Epistle of his written to the Archbishop of Cullain in these wordes I haue long desired to finde a iust occasion to depart from Pope Alexander and his persidious cardinals which presume to maintaine my traytour Thomas of Canterbury against me whereupon by the aduise of my Barons cleargie I meane to send the Archbishop of Yorke the bishop of London the Archdeacon of Poictiers c. to Rome which shall publikely denounce plainly propose this on my behalfe and all the Dominions I haue to Pope Alexander and his cardinals that they maintaine my traytour no longer but rid me of him that I with the aduise of my cleargie may set an other in the church of Canterburie They shall also require them to frustrate all that Becket had done and exact an oth of the Pope that he and his successors as much as in them lieth shall keepe and conserue inuiolable to me and all mine for euer the Royal customs of king Henrie my grandfather If they refuse any of these my demands neither I nor my Barons nor my clergie will yeeld them any kinde of obedience any longer yea rather we will openly impugne the Pope and all his and whosoeuer in my Lande shal be founde hereafter to sticke to the Pope shal be banished my Realme Phi. The king made amends for all when the Archbishop was slaine renoūcing the liberties which he striued for so long and honoring him as a Martyr whom before he pursued as a traitor Theo. The manifold deuises practises of the late Bishops of Rome God so punishing the dulnesse and discorde of Princes neglecting his truth and enuying one an other haue weakened and wearied very many both kings and Emperours partly with a false perswasion of religion partly with a number of fayned miracles but chiefly by drawing their subiectes from them and setting other nations vpon them yea by stirring and arming their owne
of bishops euen froÌ„ the apostles time So that neither the words which you alleage should be referred to Sedes Apostolica the apostolike seate nor if they were doth yâ— phrase infer yâ— the church had al her credite froÌ„ Rome but yâ— by the confessioÌ„ of al men the catholike Church had bene in greatest credite euer since the time that Peter sate through the successions of her bishops heretiks barking against her in vain Phi. You said there was nothing in our secoÌ„d chapter worth answering it hath cost you more paines theÌ„ you thought Theo. Your general dissolute discourses I told you were to litle purpose For grant that some godly men resorted to Rome whiles the bishop there was equal with his brethren obedieÌ„t to the magistrate which is all that you proue what doth this help you to coÌ„clude that you may now runne to Rome the Pope clayming and vsurping a newe founde power repugnant to the scriptures iniurious to the Church of Christ and pernitious to the Prince whom God hath annoynted ouer you Phi. The Pope claymeth no such power as you speake of Theo. What power he claimeth vseth ouer princes is too wel knowen for you to denie The worlde hath had long experience of it this Realme hath had late What authoritie he chalengeth ouer the Church of Christ if he did keepe secret you doe not You make him the rocke of refuge in doubtful daies doctrines the chiefe pastor Bishop of your soules in earth The vicar generall of Christ and he that taketh these titles to himselfe without alowance from God is an enemie to Christ oppresseth his Church Phi. God hath allowed the Bishop of Rome that power which he claymeth Theo. That if you could proue the matter were answered that til you do proue your popular perswasions are as I said but lip-labour and no way concerne the cause Phi. That is shal be proued Theo. Neuer feede vs with shales you neuer were nor euer shall be able to proue it Phi. Suspend your iudgement till you see the end Theo. I am content to heare all mary in the meane time you may not presume that which is but lightly touched by you to be clerely proued Phi. We wil not Theo. By that which you haue done I gesse what you wil do We haue discussed two chapters of your Apology where we found nothing but words And therefore vnlesse you drawe to some matter I see no reason why I should stand refelling your phrases Phi. The thirde chapter goeth neerer Theo. In your third chapter what shall we find Phi. The meaning purpose why both our Seminaries were erected Theo. Your owne purposes you can best tell Phi. First to draw diuers youth who for their conscience liued in the lowe Countries from sole seueral voluntarie studie to a more exact methode course of common conference publike exercise to be pursued by their superiours appointment rather than their own choyse Secondly doubting the time of our chastisement might be so long as to weare out either by age imprisonment or other miseries the elder sort of the learned Catholikes both at home and abroad it was thought a necessarie duetie for thâ— posteritie to prouide for a perpetual seed supplie of Catholikes namely of the Clergie Thirdly their purpose was to draw vnto this College the best wits out of England that were either Catholikely bent or desirous of more exact educatioÌ„ than is in these daies in either of the vniuersities where through the delicacie of that sect there is no Art holy or prophane throughly studied some not touched at al or that had scruple of coÌ„scieÌ„ce to take the oth of the Queenes supremacie in causes ecclesiastical or that misliked to be forced to the Ministerie as the vse is in diuers Colleges a calling contemptible euen in their own conceipt very damnable in the iudgement of others or that were doutful whether of the two religions were true which hath driueÌ„ diuers ouer to their great satisfaction admiration of the euidence of our part These were the chiefe respects that led his holines to found our two Seminaries the fruits wherof we haue seene to our great comfort Theo. And this I see you keep your old wont You affirme what you list vpon your own credite disdaining your aduersaries as prophane vnlearned you coÌ„mend your selues for the onely minions of the world set this aside and what one thing is there in your third chapter worth the speaking to Phi. You mislike that Seminaries were appointed for English Students beyond the seas We now proue the first erection of them to be needful healthfull for this realme Theo. Sir your liege Ladie misliked and had good cause so to doe that her subiects were â—locked from her encouraged against her by your practises promises that her open and sworne enemie kept them in couerts which you cal Seminaries and trayned them vp at his charges to bee fit instruments for his secret deuises and purposes Of this you speake not a word but arrogantly defacing both Uniuersities with loosenes of life slackenes of studie you come in with your exact education holy conuersation as if the report of your owne vertues from your owne mouthes were enough to auoyd and preuent al obiections Phi. That answere might serue where nothing was proued but only surmised against vs. Theo. You forget that a Prince did obiect it to whom you were bound with all reuerence and duetie to make your ful and sufficient answere Phi. So haue we done Theo. Mary that you haue in deede The things misliked were these First that by your meanes yong boyes were prouoked and allured to forsake their parents vnstable wittes their Studies subiects their Prince without asking leaue no tyrannie nor torment inflicted or offered to cause them to flie Next that your seminaries as well for their direction as prouision do wholy depend on his pleasure fauour that hath euer since the beginning professed shewed himselfe a mortal enemie to your soueraigne deposing her Person inuading her land and pulling her subiects from her obedience Thirdly that your teachers learners in either of your colleges do not only nourish this trayterous position in their own brests that her highnesse neither is nor ought to bee taken for lawfull Queene of England longer than the Pope shall permit but also labour to poyson her people with that diuelish perswasion vnder colour of religion These points your Patrone cunningly skippeth and falleth to the coÌ„mending and preferring the maners orders vertues of your two Colleges before our two vniuersities which comparison is neither seemely to be published nor easie to be credited Phi. Concerning his holinesse intentions if they be any other in the institution entertainement of those Seminaries than ours are they by vnknowen to vs none being so presumptuous to search further into his secrets than standeth with his good
your owne fellowes haue reported lamented in no worse than the fountaines of your faith and heads of your Church I wil not say the refues of England but euen the Priests of Baal and Bacchus were Saints in comparison of so lewd and intolerable monsters Stephanus the sixt and Sergius the third pulled Formosus their predecessor out of his graue the one cutting off his fingers the other his head and cast his carkas into Tybris Iohn the twelfth gaue orders in a stable amongst his horses abused his fathers concubine made his pallace a stues put out his Ghostly fathers eyes gelded one of his Cardinals ranne about in armes to set howses on fiar drank to the diuel and at dise called for help of Iupiter and Venus Boniface the seuenth getting the Popedom by il meanes robbed Saint Peters church of al the Iewels pretious things he could find ranne his waies returning not long after caught one of his Cardinals put out his eies Syluester the seconde leauing his Monasterie betooke himselfe wholly to the diuel by whose help he gate to be Pope on this condition that after his death he should be the diuels both bodie and soule Benedict the ninth sold his Popedome to Gregorie the sixt and was therefore worthily blamed of all men and by Gods iudgement condemned For it is certaine that after his death he appeared in an ougly shape with the head and taile of an asse the body of a beare and being asked what that horrible sight ment because saith he whiles I was Pope I liued like a beast without law without reason defiling the Chaire of Peter with al kind of lewdnes Of Gregorie the seuenth and his adherents Beno the cardinal writeth thus Let these hypocrites hold their peace that haue disgraced almost drouned the name of blessed Peter by cloking the flames of their malice vnder a colour of Catholicisme pretēce of iustice Let these false prophets be astonished that are curteous in shew scorpiōs in sting wolues vnder lambs skinnes killing the bodies deuouring the soules of men with the sword of their mouth whose religion sauoureth nothing but of traiterousnes and couetousnes entring the houses of widowes they lead women captiues that bee loden with sinnes and by reason of our troublesome times giue eare to spirits of error and doctrines of diuels which Hildebrand their captain learned of his maisters Benedict the ninth and Gregorie the sixt Gregorie the ninth as Vrspergensis cōplaineth taking occasion by the Emperours absence that was fighting against the Turke sent a great armie into Apulia and inuaded subdued the Emperours dominions being thē in the seruice of Christ a fact most hainous and did his best both in Apulia and Lumbardie to hinder such as were going that viage from passing the Sea seeking thereby to betray the Christian Emperour his armie to the Turke Yea the men of Verona Millan would suffer none to passe by their coasts spoyling the very souldiers that were sent to fight against the Turke and that by the cōmandement of the Pope as they affirmed which alas is horrible to be spoken Who rightly considering wil not lament and detest these things as portending and foreshewing the ruine of the Church Mathewe Paris giueth Innocentius the 3. this commendation King Iohn saith he knew and by often experience had tried that the Pope aboue al mortal men was ambitious and proude an vnsatiable thirster after money and easie to be drawen and induced to all wickednes by gifts or promises Sixtus the fourth made his playfelow Cardinal who was wont to weare cloth of gold at home in his house to ease nature in stooles of siluer and to deck his harlot Tiresia with shoes couered with pearle as Agrippa reporteth he built a sumpteous stewes in Rome appointing it to be both masculine and feminine and making a gaine of that beastly trade As Vuesselus Gronnigensis sayth he gaue the whole familie of the Cardinal of S. Luce free leaue in Iune Iulie August to vse that which nature abhorreth God in Sodome reuenged with fire and brimstone One of your owne side perceiuing the lothsomnes of his life maketh the diuel giue him this entertaynment in hell At tu implume caput cui tanta licentia quondam Femineos fuit in coitus tua furta putabas Hic quoque praetextu mitrae impunita relinqui Sic meruit tua faeda venus sic prodigia in omnem Nequitiam ad virtutis opus tua auara libido But thou thou bauld pate which hast so licentiously defiled thy self with women didst thou thinke thy secrete sinnes by reason of thy myter shoulde here goe vnpunished Receiue the rewarde of thy filthie pastimes so hath thine outragious lust to all lewdnes and voyde of all goodnes deserued It is too shameful that Iohannes Iouianus Pontanus writeth of Lucretia the daughter of Alexander the sixt Hoc tumulo dormit Lucretia nomine sedre Thais Alexandri filia sponsa nurus Here lyeth Lucretia in name in deede a shamelesse whore the daughter of Pope Alexander her fathers brothers harlot The fact so horrible that it were not credible if others did not confirme the same I will trouble chast eares no longer with this vnsauory repetition These disorders of Popes if you weigh them well be more than scandalous giue you smal cause to vaunt of your vertues Phi. These be the things that we told you were more false than Esops fables Theo. It were reason you shoulde proue them false before you reiect them as fables men of your owne sect and side laying thē down for truths in their writings you may not now take vpō you to pronounce them fables lest your credite be called in question your selues reputed to bee worse than lyars These things be they true bee they false wee report them as we find them in your owne stories not your aduersaries but your welwillers were the first autors of them And vnlesse wee see some surer ground than your bare deniall we may better charge you with open flatterie than you may them with wilful forgerie Phi. The number is not great though y◠matters were true Theo. The rest of their outrages if I would recken namely their schismes cōtentions tumults for the Popedom their ambition presumption oppression briberie periurie tyrannie pride craft hypocrisie to conclude their garboyles battailes and bloodshed an whole volume would not suffice And where you make your Clergie so free from scandals heare what men of former times and of your owne side haue spoken and written of your Bishops Priests Monkes and others Bernard of his age Behold saith he these times very much defiled with the worke that walketh in darknes Wo bee to this generation because of the leauen of Pharisees which is hypocrisie If it may be called hypocrisie which is now so rife that it can not and so shamelesse that
the priest is Gods minister to reuēge male factors Peter himself was sharply rebuked by Christ for vsing the sword in Peter all Pastors Bishops are straitly charged not to meddle with it Al that take the sword shall perish with the sword And of al men a Bishop must be no striker For if he that should feede his masters houshold fal to striking he shall haue his portion with hypocrites The seruants of God must be gentle towards all instructing those that resist with mildnes not cōpelling any with sharpnes Their function is limited to the preaching of the word dispensing the sacraments which haue no kinde of cōpulsion in thē but inuite men only by sober perswasions to beleeue imbrace the promises of God To conclude pastors may teach exhort reproue not force cōmand or reuenge only princes be gouernors that is publik magistrates to prescribe by their lawes and punish with the sword such as resist them within their dominions which Bishops may not do speake we truth or no Phi. We grant Bishops be no magistrates neither haue they to do with the bodies or goods of mē which god hath permitted to the princes power but yet they be gouernors of soules which princes be not Theo. No better reason to warrāt our opinion The Bishops charge concerneth the souls of mē but the soule of mā can neither be forced nor punished by man ergo Bishops be no commanders nor punishers but only directors instructors of the flocke of Christ. Phi. That we know The. Thē since by gouernors we mean rulers such as God hath authorized to bear the sword why do you fondly cauil that the princes power to cōmand punish excludeth the Bishops vocation to teach exhort which is nothing so Phi. You say princes may command and punish as well Bishops as others Theo. If they bee subiectes no lesse than others why should they not obey the prince or abide the sword as wel as others Phi. Do you make them meere subiects Theo. Not I but he that said You must be subiect not only for feare of wrath but also for conscience sake Phi. Doth he speake that of clergymē Theo. He y◠speaketh of al exempteth none Let euery soule bee subiect to the higher powers c. In these words clergymen be not excepted ergo cōprised Out of this place Bernard reasoneth thus with an archbishop of Frāce Let euery soul be subiect If euery thē yours Who doth except you y◠be bishops frō this general speech He that bringeth an exceptiō vseth but a delusion For these things saith Chrysostom are commanded to all as well Priestes and Monks as secular men which appeareth by the first sentence Let euery soule bee subiect to the superiour powers yea though thou be an Apostle an Euangelist a Prophet or what soeuer thou be So Theodorete Whether he be Priest Bishop or Monk let them be subiect to Magistrates This doctrine dured in the Church a thousand yeares before your exemption of Clerkes from secular powers as you call them was knowen Paul teacheth euerie soule saith Theophilact whether he be Priest Monk or Apostle to be subiect and obey Princes He teacheth euery soule saith Oecumenius whether he be Priest Monk or Apostle to submit themselues to Magistrates Gregorie the first perceiued and yeelded this exposition to be true Power saith he ouer all men is giuen to my Lord the Emperour from heauen And least you should thinke priests exempted in the person of Christ he speaketh thus to Mauritius the Emperour Sacerdotes meos tuae manui commisi I haue put my Priestes into thy handes and dost thou withhold thy souldiers from my seruice And elsewhere writing of the same prince Christ hath granted him to be ruler not ouer souldiers only but ouer Priestes also This is euident by the whole course of the Scripture Whom did our Sauiour charge to giue to Caesar that which was Caesars Not Scribes and high Priests as well as others Christ himselfe was a priest and a prophet and yet he not onely submitted himselfe to the Romane Magistrate but confessed the presidēts power ouer him to be from heauen S. Paul appealed vnto Caesar appeared before Caesar as his lawful gouernor S. Iude detested thē for false prophetes that despised gouernment or spake euil of rulers It is no Religion it is rebellion against God his word for clergie men to exempt themselues from the princes power The commandement is general Let euery soule be subiect◠the punishment is eternall Whosoeuer resisteth power resisteth the ordināce of God and they that resist shall receiue to themselues damnation Phi. Yet reason the clergie be fauoured aboue the Laitie Theo. Tush we talke not what fauour princes may do well to shew but whether Clergie men by Gods law may chalenge an exemption from earthly powers or no Phi. Not except princes commaund against God And if they do so whom must lay men obey God or man Phi. No doubt God Theo. Then the prince cōmaunding against God all men are bound be they lay men or clerkes to prefer the will of God before the princes lawes but when the prince ioyneth with God and commaundeth for truth may the clergie resist the prince more than the people may Phi. They may not Theo. You say well Of the twaine they must rather obey that they may be teachers of obedience not in wordes onely but in deedes also For if they must admonish others to be subiect to principalities and obedient to Magistrates then must they not hinder their doctrine by their doings nor leade the rest by their example to contemn or resist powers which they should reuerence and obey Phi. By no meanes Theo. And in case the prince be repugnant to God may priestes or people be violent withstanders or must they rather be patient indurers of the sword Phi. They must not resist but in patience possesse their soules They that resist shal receiue iudgemēt Theo. Ergo whether princes be with God or against God Priests Bishops must with gladnes obey or with meekenes abide the sword Phi. They must Theo. And he that suffereth is a subiect as wel as he that obeyeth For if they be rulers that commaund punish certainely they be subiects that must obey the commandement or abide the punishment Phi. I think so Theo. Then monks Prists Bishops by Gods law be subiects as well as others and consequently Princes be Gouernours of all persons within their dominions bee they Prelates Prophetes Apostles or whatsoeuer they be Phi. In temporal things we graunt but not in spiritual Theo. Where Princes may lawfully commaund all subiects of dewtie must obey Phi. True but in Ecclesiastical causes Princes may not meddle Theo. So say you but if I proue that the Princes power and charge by Gods law reacheth as well vnto matters of religion as other things will you bethink your selues
Phi. It may Theo. Should corrupt false Religion be displaced banished and the spredders of it dispersed skattered Phi. In any case Theo. Ought malefactors against God as heretikes blasphemers sorcerers idolaters such other transgressours of the first table to be reuenged and punished as well as offenders against men and the breakers of the second table Phi. What else Theo. Can any man freely permit safely defend generally restrayne and externally punish within a realme but onely the Prince Phi. None Theo. Then if these things needfully must and lawfully may bee done for Christ and his Church none can doe them but Magistrates it is euident that the Princes power charge doth stretch vnto thinges causes that bee spirituall as well as temporall Or if S. Austens wordes do better please you that Princes may command that which is good and prohibite that which is euill within their kingdomes not in ciuile affaires onely but in matters also that concerne diuine Religion Phi. Did the Christian Princes in the primatiue Church since the cōming of Christ commaund punish in matters Ecclesiasticall Theo. If their examples do not concur with my former proofes good leaue haue you to beleeue neither if they do take heede you withstand not a manifest truth And here you shal choose whether you will haue a short report or a large rehearsal of their doings Socrates touching them all saith We therefore make mention of Emperors throughout this historie for that since they became Christians Ecclesiastical matters depend on them the greatest Synods haue been and are yet called by their appointment And Alciat a man of your own side Nemim dubiū est quin in primatiua ecclesia de rebus personis ecclesiast c. THERE CAN BE NO DOVBT saith he but in the primatiue Church Emperors had the iurisdiction that is the ruling and gouerning of persons and causes Ecclesiasticall Ius dicere referred to Princes is not to decide matters in question by law for so did Iudges not Princes but to make lawes and betweene lawmakers gouernors you can find litle difference for by publike lawes commāding good punishing euil princes do chiefly gouerne Then if christian Monarks in the primatiue church guided ecclesiastical matters persons by their imperiall lawes as this learned famous lawier putteth vs out of doubt they did you must shew when how they forfeited this power If it were thē lawful vsual how can it be now strange vsurped If there be no doubt of this with what cōscience do you not doubt but deny this Perhaps you disdaine the witnesse Alciat in euery respect was well learned in his faculty which was law deserueth more credit than the best of you yet least I should seeme to presse you with names not with proofes let vs view the proceedings of some Christiā Emperors and iudge you whether they be not both ancient and euident What power Constantine claimed vsed in causes ecclesiasticall the foure books of Eusebius other church stories describing the lawes letters acts of Cōstantine beare witnes sufficient First he gaue the christiās free liberty to professe their religion built them places of praier at his own charges entreated their bishops with all possible fauor honor Next he prohibited the gentiles their ancient vsual idolatries diuinatiōs oracles images sacrifices Heretiks he debarred not only churches secret conuents but excluded them also from the priuileges which him-selfe had prouided for Catholike persons If Constantines example deserue to be praised followed which no man except he be void of common sense wil gainsay then may christian Princes in the right of their scepter sword I meane their publike vocation charge without seeking any farther warrāt from Rome forbid wicked and idolatrous superstition admit and assist to the best of their power the preaching of the trueth sequester heretikes from the dignities and liberties graunted to good and religious subiectes for so did Constantine whose godly vertues and happie paines all nations then imbraced all ages since confessed all Princes now should imitate Besides this he did many thinges both for spredding the faith guiding the church of Christ worthy great cōmendation By my ministery saith this good Emperor mākind is brought to the keeping obseruing of the most sacred law by the seruice which I perform to God al things euery where directly speaking of things ecclesiasticall are setled in order yea the barbarous nations which til this time knew not the truth now praise the name of God sincerely whom they reuerēce for dread of vs. Towards the church of Christ he shewed an excellēt special care calling coūcels of bishops when any dissention sprang as a common bishop ouerseer appointed by God not disdaining to be present confer with them the rather to keep thē al in christian peace For his maner was in their synods not to sit idle but to marke aduisedly what euery man said to help their either side disputing to tēper such as kindled too fast to reason mildly with ech part vndertake iointly with thē to search out the truth confirming their decrees with his seal least other tēporal iudges rulers should infringe them When occasiō serued him not to gather a coūcel he did by writing aduertise the parties dissenting of his opiniō iudgemēt interposing himself as an arbiter in their cōtrouersies somtimes Prescribing the bishops what was profitable for the church of God somtimes the people to which end he wrot many letters emitting neither rebukes nor threats whē need so required Whē the coūcel of Tyrus was gathered by his edict he cōmāded thē first to discusse the truth of such crimes as were pretēded against Athan. who was loth to come before thē saue that he feared the thretning letters of Const. writtē to this effect If any which I think not in contēpt of our mādate fail to come before you we wil send a warrāt frō our roial autority that he shal be banished to teach him what it is for bishops clerks to withstād the precept of the chief ruler defending the truth Athan. the bishops of his part appeared but finding the coūcel very partial protested against thē appealed frō thē in these words Because we see many things spitefully cōtriued against vs much wrōg offred the catholik church vnder our names we be forced to request that the debating of our maters may be kept for the princes most excellēt person we can not bear the drifts iniuries of our enimies therfore require the cause to be referred to the most religious deuout emperor before whō we shal be sufferd to stād in our own defēces plead the right of the church Yet to preuēt the worst Athan. himself fled to Constant. beseeching him to send for the bishops examine their acts
For Noli te extollere sed esto Deo subditus exalt not thy selfe but bee subiect to God you say Exalt not thy selfe aboue thy measure and suppresse the rest which should declare when a Prince exalteth himselfe aboue his measure to wit when he is not subiect to God The next wordes which you bring When didst thou euer heare most clement Prince that Lay men haue iudged Bishops are not found Ibidem as you quote them that is Epistola 33 ad sororem but Epistola 32 ad Valentinianum Imperatorem And In causa fider In a matter of faith which Ambrose addeth you leaue out in the first sentence though you double it at y◠latter end These scapes I will winke at and come to the words themselues Thinke not thy selfe to haue any Emperial right ouer diuine things Neither do we say Princes haue for an emperial right is to commaund alter and abrogate what they think good which is lawful neither for men nor Angels in diuine matters Palaces are for Princes and Churches for Priests this was truely saide if you know not the reason Churches were first appointed for publike praier and preaching which belong to the Priests and not to the Princes function And for that cause Bishops were to teach Princes which was the right faith Princes were not to teach the Bishops much lesse to professe thēselues iudges of trueth as Valentinian did when he said Ego debeo iudicare I ought to bee iudge whether Christ be God or no for that was the question between the Arrians and Ambrose and that was the word which S. Ambrose stoutly but wisely refused When we say that Princes be iudges of faith bring S. Ambrose against vs and spare not but we bee farther off from that impietie to make men iudges ouer God than you be Doe you not make the Prince iudge of faith Theo. You know we do not Phi. Produce not vs for witnesses we know no such thing Theo. Your own acts shall depose for vs if your mouthes will not If we make Princes to bee iudges of faith why were so many of vs consumed not long since in England with fier and fagot for disliking that which the Prince and the Pope affirmed to be faith Why at this day doe you kill and murder elsewhere so many thousands of vs for reiecting that as false religion which the kings princes of your side professe for true If wee make Princes iudges why do we rather loose our liues than stand to their iudgemēts Your stakes that yet be warm your swords that yet be bloodie do witnes for vs and against you that in matters of faith we make neither Prince nor Pope to be iudge God is not subiect to the iudgemēt of man no more is his trueth Phi. What power then do you giue to Princes Theo. What power so euer we giue them we giue them no power to pronounce which is trueth Phi. What do you then Theo. Neuer aske that you know Haue we spent so many words and you now to seeke what we defend But you see S. Ambrose maketh nothing for you And therefore you picke a quarell to the question Phi. S. Ambrose would not yeeld Valentinian the Emperour so much as a Church in Millan and when hee was willed to appeare before the Emperour in his consistorie or els depart the Citie he would do neither Theo. You care not to fit your purpose though you make S. Ambrose a sturdie rebell You would fayne find a president to colour your headynes against the Prince but in Ambrose you can not his answere to Valentinian was stout but lawfull constant but Christian as the circumstances of the facts will declare Valentinian a yong Prince incensed by Iustina his mother and other Eunuches about him willed Ambrose to come and dispute with Auxentius the Arrian in his consistorie before him and hee would bee iudge whether of their two religions were truest and which of them twaine shoulde bee Bishop of Millan Auxentius or Ambrose otherwise to depart whither he would To this Ambrose made a sober and duetifull answere in defence of himselfe and his cause and gaue it in writing to Valentinian shewing him amongst other things that he was yong in yeres a nouice in faith not yet baptised rather to learne than to iudge of bishops that the consistorie was no fit place for a priest to dispute in where the hearers should be Iewes on gētiles so scoffe at Christ the Emperour himselfe partial as appeared by his Law published before that time to impugne the truth As for departing if he were forced he would not resist but with his consent he could not relinquish his church to saue his life wtout great sinne And because Auxentius his companions vrged this that the Emperour ought to be iudge in matters of faith Saint Ambrose followeth and refelleth that word as repugnant not onely to the diuine Scriptures but also to the Romane lawes Conclusus vndique ad versutiam patrum suorum confugit de Imperatore vult inuidiam commouere dicens iudicare debere adolescentē catechumenū sacrae lectionis ignarum in consistorio iudicare Auxentius driuen to his shiftes hath recourse to the craft of his forefathers seeking to procure vs enuie by the Emperours name and sayth the Prince ought to bee iudge though hee bee yong not yet baptized and ignorant of the Scriptures and that in the Consistorie And to the Emperour himselfe Your father a man of riper yeeres sayde It is not for mee to bee iudge betweene Bishoppes doeth your clemencie nowe at these yeeres say I ought to bee iudge And hee baptized in Christ thought himselfe vnable for the weight of so great a iudgement doeth your clemencie that hath not yet obtayned to the Sacrament of baptisme chalenge the iudgement of fayth whereas yet you knowe not the mysteries of fayth No man shoulde thinke mee stubburne when I stand on this which your father of famous memorie not onely pronounced in woordes but also confirmed by his Lawes that in a cause of fayth or ecclesiasticall order hee shoulde be iudge that was both like in function and ruled by the same kind of right For those be the words of the Rescript his meaning was hee woulde haue Priests to bee iudges of Priests Then follow the wordes which you cite When euer didst thou heare most clement Emperour in a cause of fayth that Laymen iudged of bishops Shall wee so bend for flatterie that we should forget the right or duetie of Priests and what God hath bequeathed to me I should commit to others If a Bishop must be taught by a Layman what to follow let a Lay man then dispute or speake in the Church and a Bishop be an auditor let the Bishop learne of a Layman But surely if we suruey the course of the diuine Scriptures or auncient times who is there that can deny but in a cause of faith in a
the time long the Princes wise the factes knowen the Church of Christ honoured and obeyed those decrees It is no doubtfull question but a manifest trueth that the best Princes before Christ and after Christ for many yeares medled with the reformation of the Church and prescribed lawes both Ecclesiasticall and Temporall S. Augustine accompteth them not vsurpers as you doe but happie Princes that imployed their authoritie to delate and spreade the true worshippe of God as much as they coulde and auoucheth plainely that God him-selfe speaketh and commaundeth by the mouthes and heartes of Princes when they commaunde in matters of Religion that which is good and whosoeuer resisteth their Ecclesiasticall Lawes made for trueth shall bee grieuouslie plagued at Gods handes Imperatores felices dicimus si suam potestatem ad DEI cultum maximè dilatandum maiestatis eius famulam faciunt Wee count Princes blessed if they bende their power to doe God seruice for the spreading of his true worshippe as much as they can Hoc iubent imperatores quod iubet Christus quia cum bonum iubent per illos non iubet nisi Christus Emperours commaunde the selfe-same that Christ doeth because when they commaunde that which is good it is Christ him-selfe that commaundeth by them And â— little after Attendite qua manifestissima veritate per cor regis quod in manu Dei est ipse Deus dixerat inista ipsa lege quam contra vos prolatam dicitis Marke yee with howe manifest trueth by the Kinges heart which is in Gods hande GOD himselfe spake in that verie Lawe which you saie was made against you And therefore hee concludeth Quicunque legibus Impâ—ratorum quae pro Dei veritate feruntur obtemporare non vult grande acquirit supplicium Whosoeuer will not obey the lawes of Princes which are made for the truth of God is sure to beare an heauie iudgement The Princes themselues will teach you that by their power they may by their charge they should medle with matters Ecclesiasticall The authority of our lawes saith Iustinian disposeth diuine and humane thinges Thence is it that we take greatest care for the true religion of God and honest conuersation of Priestes So likewise Theodosius and Valentinian Ea quae circa Catholicam fidem vel ordinauit antiquit as vel parentum nostrorum authoritas religiosa constituit vel nostra Serenitas roborauit nouella superstitione remota integra inuiolata custodire praecipimus Those thinges which ancient Princes haue ordained or the religious authoritie of our Progenitours decreed or our highnesse established concerning the catholike faith wee commaund you to keepe them firme and inuiolable all latter superstition remoued And this they recken to be the first part of their Princely charge Inter caeteras sollicitudines quas amor publicus peruigili nobis cogitatione indixit praecipuam Imperatoriae maiestatis curam esse praecipimus verae religionis indaginem Among the rest of those dueties which the common-wealth exacteth at our handes we perceiue the inquirie of true religion should be the chiefest care of our Princely calling Valentinian the elder though at first hee refused to deale with profound questions of religion yet after hee was content to enterpose his authoritie with others and to commaund that the faith of the Trinitie should be rightly preached the Sacrament of Baptisme by no meanes doubled The blessed Bishops saith he with Valens Gratian haue made demonstration that the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost be a Trinitie coessentiall nostra potentia eandem praedicari mandauit and our power hath commaunded the same truth to be preached And againe The bishop which shall reiterate holy Baptisme we count vnworthy of his place For wee condemne their error which treading the Apostolike preceptes vnder their feete doe not clense but rather defile those with a second washing that are once alreadie baptized Zeno seeking to reconcile the Bishops Clerkes Monkes and people of Egypt and Alexandria to the Nicene faith beginneth with these wordes For so much as wee know that onely faith which is right and syncere to bee the grounde staie strength and inuincible defence of our Empire wee haue alwaies emploied our desires endeuours and lawes that thereby wee might multiplie the holie Catholike and Apostolike church the perpetuall and vndefiled mother of our Scepter And Iustinus nephewe to Iustinian writing a publike Edict to all Christians concerning manie pointes of true Religion maketh his conclusion with these wordes Omnes eos qui contraria hijsce vel sentiunt vel sensuri sunt Anathemate damnamus alienos à sancta Dei Catholica Apostolica Ecclesia iudicamus Wee condemne them all as accursed that presentlie doe or hereafter shall thinke contrarie to these things we adiudge to haue no part in the holy Catholike and Apostolike Church of God This care to prouide and power to commaund for matters of religioÌ„ Princes as well in this realme as els where continued a thousand yeres after Christ. The Bishop of Rome himselfe 850 yeres after Christ promiseth all kind of obedience to the chapters and lawes ecclesiasticall of Lotharius his ancestours In Greece the Emperours lost not their authoritie to call Councels and establish trueth till they lost Empire and all More than thirtine hundred yeres after Christ Nicephorus highly commendeth a Greeke Emperour for his labors and endeuours in the Church affaires You haue saith he to the Prince restored the Catholike and vniuersal Church to her auncient state that was troubled with nouelties impure and vnsound doctrine you haue banished from her you haue purged the temple from heretikes that were corrupters and deprauers of heauenly doctrine not so much with a three corded whippe as with the worde of trueth You haue established the faith and made constitutions for it you haue walled about true godlines with mightie defences you haue repaired that which was ruinous Priestly vnction decaied you haue made purer than gold and by lawes and letters taught them sobriety of life and contempt of mony Wherefore their order is now sacred in the common wealth which in former times was degenerated infected with corruption of discipline and manners Yea when you sawe our true religion brought in danger by false and absurd doctrines you did most zealously and most wisely vndertake the defence of it And knowing very well that piety of it selfe the diligent care of Gods causes are the surest proppes of an Empire you tooke a diuine and passing wise course For by medling with these matters of religion you wanne great thankes of God and gaue him iust cause to bee fauorable to your praiers to direct al your doings and confirme and setle the Empire in your hands Canutus a King of this land not full 32 yeres before the conquest apparently proueth that Princes kept their authoritie to commaund for matters of religion more than a
must it not Phi. It must Theo. And the fact is as lawfull in Princes when they punish schismatikes heretikes and Idolaters as when they punish adulterers theeues and murderers Phi. What else Theo. And if they leaue such impieties against God vnpunished they do not that duetie which God requireth of them Phi. All this wee grant Theo. Will you not recall it when we come to the push Phi. Recall it As though this could hurt vs Theo. Since you promise not to recall it I will trust you for this once and will come to the true difference betwixt your opinion ours You flatly confesse and the generall practise of your Church is that Princes of duetie should and lawfully may punish all spiritual ecclesiasticall offences namely Apostasie Idolatrie sorcerie sacrilege schisme heresie and such like impieties against God and his Church as well as ciuill disorders and iniuries against our neighbours Can you denie this Phi. I can not Theo. Wee confesse the same Let it stand irreuocable for both sides Phi. Agreed But remember they bee punishers not determiners of those thinges Theo. I said punishers if you looke to my words Phi. I grant that doctrine to bee good and sound Theo. Then foorth What you say Princes may punish we say Princes may prohibite Prohibiting is lesse than punishing a meane to make subiectes do their dueties without punishing which euery Christian Magistrate shoulde rather embrace Princes by common iustice must open their mouthes to speak before they lift vp their handes to strike their lawes must bee knowen before their sword must be drawen to reuenge disobedience Nothing can be iustly punished except it bee first prohibited So that princes may punish those things ergo they may prohibite them Phi. Great reason Princes should warne their subiects as well as punish them Prohibiting is but forewarning what thinges they must auoyde lest they fall into the paynes prescribed Theo. If they may punish and prohibite that which is euill ergo they may commaund and establish that which is good in matters of religion Howe like you the sequele Phi. You thinke it holdeth by reason of the contrarietie that is betweene both parts Theo. All learning will tell you that contraries bee consequent to contraries If they may forbid and abolish that which is euil ergo they may bid and establish that which is good And so S. Augustine coupleth them You hearde the places before As a king hee serueth God by making Lawes commaunding iust thinges and prohibiting the contrarie And againe Kings as they bee kings serue God as they bee willed by God if in their kingdomes they commaunde that which is good and prohibite that which is euill not in ciuill affayres only but in matters also touching diuine religion They serue not God by prohibiting euill except they likewise commaund that which is good in diuine religion By duetie they must by consequent they do both How thinke you say we not trueth Phi. I see your meaning You would haue Princes commaund in matters of religion Theo. Wee would haue them in those thinges to commaund that which is good as well as prohibites that which is euill You graunt the later why should you sticke at the former Phi. Commaunding is a woord of too great authoritie Theo. Whether thinke you the greater with woordes to commaund or with deedes to compell Phi. Compelling is more than commaunding Theo. And hee that punisheth apparently compelleth Since then by your owne confession Princes may compell men by punishments from that which is euill to that which is good in matters of religion ergo they may much more command them that which is good Phi. You snare mee with wordes Theo. Doe I snare you with wordes when I say that Princes may commaund that which is good in matters of religion as well as punish that which is euill or do you rather harden your faces and whet your tongues against the Scriptures against the fathers against the lawes and Edicts of all godly Princes in all ages and Countries Looke no farther than to the places which I haue brought you as well out of the holy scriptures as ancient stories and lawes you shal find where princes commanded in causes ecclesiasticall I meane the very woord aboue three skore times If that bee not sufficient you shall haue three hundred when you will So that you make a bad march if you stand on this point with vs that Princes may not commaund that which is good in matters of religion Phi. You shall haue no such aduantage at vs. Wee knowe S. Augustine sayth When Emperours take part with trueth they commaund for trueth against error which whosoeuer contemneth hee purchaseth to himselfe iudgement And againe Emperours commaund the selfe same that Christ doth for when they commaund that which is good no man commaundeth by them but Christ. Theo. You did well to pull your fingers out of the fier you sawe it was too hoat for you S. Austen in that epistle which you quote vseth that very word twelue times to shew that Kings and Princes did and might COMMAVND in matters of religion Reade the twentie constitutions wherein Iustinian disposeth of crimes and causes ecclesiastical and see whether euery sentence be not a commaundement Or if that be too much ouerrun the 123 intitled of diuers ecclesiasticall Chapters and tell vs whether in that one constitution you do not finde aboue fourteene score imperatiue and prohibitiue verbs whereby the Prynce WILLETH PRESCRIBETH APPOINTETH COMMAVNDETH DISPOSETH of persons and causes ecclesiasticall And this you can not choose but perceaue except you bee voide of common sense that Princes vse not to perswade and intreate but require and command their subiects And therfore they must either not medle with matters of religion at all or els of necessitie they must commaund and afterward punish if their commaundement be despised Phi. Let it be so since you will needs haue it so but yet this doth not proue that Princes be supreme Rulers and masters of the faith and Church of Christ. Theo. You leape before you come to the stile Anon you shall heare what this doth proue but first Doe you graunt that Princes may commaund that which is good prohibite that which is euil in matters of religion Phi. What gaine you by that if I graunt it Theo. Take you no care for our gaines Do you graunt it or no Phi. What if I doe Theo. What if doth not answer my question speake off or on to that which I demaund Why be you so dainty to graunt that which you dare not deny Phi. Take your pleasure in that point and yet you shall misse your purpose Theo. My purpose is trueth which neither your high wordes nor indirect shifts shall disappoint You spend time with delaies we might otherwise sooner end Phi. Will you answer as briefly when I aske you the like Theo. If I doe not charge me with myne owne wordes Phi.
Christ to teach and baptise all nations without exceptioÌ„ but we say none hath at this present nor ought to haue any such power within the Realme and vnlesse you will defende that soules in heauen doe nowe preach the Gospel and minister the Sacramentes we see not how the Apostles haue any actuall function or ecclesiasticall power on earth here or elsewhere These quarrels full of spite and voide of al trueth and common reason doe more than you thinke impaire the credit of your religion and learning but so great is your malice that it shutteth your senses kindleth your cholor whiles you would say somwhat to say you care not what be it neuer so vntrue or vntidy Phi. The Princes soueraignty is directly against the commandement commission giuen to Peter first then to all the Apostles of preaching baptising remitting retaining binding loosing ouer all the world without difference of temporall state or dependance of any mortall Prince therein Theo. That coÌ„mandement promise of our Sauior to his Apostles is no way preiudiciall to our doctrine nor beneficial to yours as also the charge which the preachers bishops of England haue ouer their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope nor dependeth vpon the wil or word of any earthly creature therfore you do vs the more wrong so confidently to say what you list of vs as if your enuious reports were authentik oracles Phi. You make the Prince supreme gouernor in al spiritual ecclesiasticall thinges causes preaching baptising binding loosing such like be spiritual things causes ergo you make the Princes supreme gouernor euen in these things And here you may see that we iustly charge you with all the former absurdities though to shift theÌ„ vs off you say we do nothing but slander cauil Theo. And here you may see the truth of our speech vniustnes of your charge that as you began so you coÌ„tinue with spite full peâ—â—erting deprauing our words For by GOVERNORS we do not mean moderators perscribers directors inuentors or authors of these things as you misconster vs but rulers magistrates bearing the sworde to permit defende that which Christ himselfe first appointed ordained with lawfull force to disturbe the despisers of his wil testament Now what inconuenience is this if we say that Princes as publike Magistrates may giue freedom protection and assistance to the preaching of the word ministring of the Sacraments right vsing of the keies not fet licence from Rome Is that against Christs coÌ„mandement or commission giuen to Peter the rest or doth that proue all ecclesiasticall power cure of soules to proceed depend of the Princes right Phi. It keepeth the realme from obedience to general Councels which haue bin or shal be gathered in forraine countries It taketh away al conuenient meanes of gathering holding or executing any such Councels their Decrees as appeared by refusing to come to the late Councel of Trent notwithstanding the Popes messengers and letters of other great Princes which requested and inuited them to the same Theo. Princes ought to heare obey the truth proposed by priuate persons Preachers much more to reuerence the same declared by a number of faithful godly Bishops meeting in a general councel But the pleasures orders of other princes prelats be their assembly neuer so great the rulers of this realme are not bound to respect vnlesse their consents be first required and obtained Particular councels you may call without vs and as we are not acquainted with them so are we not obstricted to them Generall Councels you can not call without the liking and warning of all Christian Princes and common-wealthes and if you neglect or skippe any they may lawfully refuse and despise that which you shal then and there decree For that which pertaineth to all can not be good without the knowledge and consents of all Phi. To the Councel of Trent you were requested and inuited by messengers froÌ„ the Pope and letters of other great Princes Theo. To your Chapter at Trent we came not for many good and sufficient reasons The Pope tooke vppon him to call that Councell which he had no right to do None might haue voices in the Councel but such as were his creatures and sworne to bee true trustie to his triple crowne The conclusion and resolution of all thinges was euer reserued to him or his Legates This Realme and others were inuited to come but as suppliants to your Synod to stand at your curtesies and to suffer your selues to be iudges in your owne cause and yet you thinke much that wee refused to come Let a christian councell bee agreed on by all their consentes that haue to do with it let both sides haue like interest in the councell Let your Salua semper in omnibus Apostolicae sedis authoritate Forprising in all thinges the Popes power and pleasure be reiected and the Scriptures inspired from God be laid in the middest as the ballance and touchstone of truth which was the wont of former councels Let both partes bee sworne to respect nothing but in the feare of God to examine the faith seeke out the ancient canons of Christs church if we faile to meete you declaime against vs on Gods name as hinderers of peace despisers of general councels Otherwise no duety bindeth vs to resort much lesse to be subiect to your vnlawfull routes voide of al christian authority liberty truth indifferency Phi. Was the Councell of Trent vnlawfully called Theo. Proue it the Popes right to cal generall Councels that none must sit there but his feed sworne men lastly that he must rule raigne as he doth in all assemblies bee iudge against al law reason in his own cause though he be chiefe in resisting the truth oppressing the church then will we grant your conuenticle at TreÌ„t was orderly called But if these things be repugnant to christian equitie the sincere canons of Gods Church whereby the Catholike Councels of former ages were directed as apparently they be then had your Tridentine chapter neither the calling keeping concluding nor meaning of a generall Councel Phi. Who shoulde call Councels if not the Pope Theo. Shew what one generall Councell the Pope called for the space of twelue hundred yeares after Christ and then aske vs who should call them but he if you can not learn that vsurpation is no right and that generall Councels were called by Princes and not by Popes and therefore the Popes power to summon generall Councels if it bee any grewe very lately and is not yet olde enough to bee currant or Catholike Phi. To the Councell of Trent other Princes consented Theo. Certaine Friers were set there to wast day light wearie the wals with declaiming against the Gospell of Christ whiles your holy
his brethren vnprofitable slacke in his office silent in that which is good hurtfull to himselfe all others yea though hee leade with him innumerable soules by heapes to the diuell of hell yet let no mortal man presume to find fault with him or reproue him for his doings This is the subiection which your holy father wold haue which you count vs absurd for not acknowledging But may we not iustly say to you as S. August saide to the Donatistes This which you affirme that al the worlde must bee subiect to one man as to Christs Uicar Did God or man tell it you If God read it vnto vs out of the law the Prophets the Psalms the Apostolical or Euangelicall writings Read it if you can which hitherto you ueuer coulde But if men haue saide it or rather no men but your selues beholde the deuise of men beholde what you worship behold what you serue behold wherefore you rebel you rage you waxe madde Phi. If you will not bee subiect to the Pope as Christes Uicar and head of the Church which no doubt he is yet haue you no colour to withstande his authoritie as hee is and euer was Patriarke of the West Theo. His vicarshippe to Christ and headshippe ouer the Church bee thinges that you speake much of but shewe small proofe for It were good you woulde either prooue them or not presume them as you doe they bee matters of greater weight than that you may carie them away with your faire lookes Patriarke of the West wee graunt he was which is a foule fall from head of the Church and Uicar generall to Christ himselfe and yet this way you come too short of your reckoning For first the tytle and authoritie of Archbishoppes and Patriarkes was not ordayned by the commaundement of Christ or his Apostles but the Bishops long after when the Church began to bee troubled with dissentions were content to lincke themselues together and in euery Prouince to suffer one whome they preferred for the worthines of his Citie and called their Metropolitane that is Bishoppe of the chiefe or mother Citie to haue this prerogatiue in all doubts of Doctrine and discipline to assemble the rest of his brethren or consult them absent by letters and see that obserued which the most part of them determined Before there beganne schismes in religion the Churches sayth S. Hierom were gouerned by the common Councell of the Seniors And therfore Episcopi nouerint se magis consuetudine quam dominicae dispositionis veritate Presbyteris esse maiores Let the Bishoppes vnderstand that they bee greater than ministers or elders rather by Custome than by any trueth of the Lordes appointment and that they ought to gouerne the Church in common And in his Epistle to Euagrius hauing fully prooued by the Scriptures that the Apostles called themselues but Presbyteros Elders or Seniors he addeth Quod autē postea vnus electus est qui ceteris praeponereter in schismatis remedium factum est ne vnusquisque ad se trahens Christiecclesiā rumperet That after their times one was chosen in euery Church and preferred before the rest to haue the dignitie of a Bishoppe this was prouided for a remedie against schismes lest euery man drawing some vnto him shoulde rent the Church of Christ in pieces For what doth a Bishop except ordering of others which an Elder may not doe And lest you should thinke he speaketh not as well of the chiefe as of the meaner Bishoppes hee compareth three of the greatest Patriarkes with three of the poorest Bishops he could name Vbicunque fuerit Episcopus siue Romae siue Eugubij siue Constantinopoli siue Rhegij siue Alexandriae siue Tains eiusdem meriti eiusdem est Sacerdotij Potentia diuitiarum paupertatis humilitas vel sublimiorem vel inferiorem Episcopum non facit ceterum omnes Apostolorum successores sunt A Bishop of what place soeuer hee be either of Rome or of Eugubium or of Constantinople or of Rhegium or of Alexandria or of Tains hath the same merite and the same function or Priesthood Abundance of riches or basenes of pouertie doeth not make a Bishoppe higher or lower for they all be successours to the Apostles So that the Bishoppe of Rome by commission from Christ and succession from the Apostles is no higher than the meanest Bishop in the worlde The superioritie which he and others had as Metropolitanes in their owne Prouinces came by custome as the great Councell of Nice witnesseth not by Christes institution Let the olde vse continue in Aegypt Lybia and Pentapolis that the Bishoppe of Alexandria bee chiefe ouer all those places for so much as the Bishoppe of Rome hath the like custome Likewise at Antioch and in other Prouinces let the Churches keepe their prerogatiues The generall Councell of Ephesus confesseth the same It seemeth good to this sacred and oecumenicall Synode to conserue to euery prouince their right priuileges whole and vntouched which they haue had of olde according to the custome that now long hath preuayled Next their authoritie was subiect not only to the discretion and moderation of their brethren assembled in Councell but also to the lawes Edicts of Christian Princes to be graunted extended limited and ordered as they saw cause For example the first Councell of Constantinople aduaunced the Bishoppe of that Citie to bee the next Patriarke to the Bishoppe of Rome which before he was not And the Councel of Chalcedon made him equall in ecclesiasticall honours with the Bishoppe of Rome and assigned him a larger Prouince than before he had So Iustinian gaue to the Citie in Africa that he called after his owne name the See of an Archbishoppe Archiepiscopale munus quod Episcopo Iustinianeae Carthaginis Africanae Dioeceseos dedimus conseruari iubemus Sed aliae ciuitates atque horum Episcopi quibus passim in diuersis locis ius Metropoliticum concessum est in perpetuum hoc priuilegio perfruuntor The Archiepiscopal dignitie which wee gaue to the Bishoppe of Iustinianea within the Prouince of Africa we commaund to continue still And likewise let other Cities and their Bishops to whom in diuers places and Countries the right of Metropolitanes hath beene graunted enioy that priuilege for euer The same Prince as you heard before commanded the Archbishops and Patriarkes of Rome Constantinople Alexandria Theopolis and Ierusalem and generally subiecteth them in ecclesiasticall causes and iudgements to the sacred Canons and his Imperiall Lawes as appeareth expressely in his publike Edicts made to that end Thirdly by the right and auncient diuision of prouinces this Realme was not vnder the Bishoppe of Rome For when the Bishoppes of Africa praied Innocentius either to send for Pelagius the Britan or to deale with him by letters to shewe the meaning of his lewde speaches tending to the derogation of Gods grace the Bishoppe of Rome made
which is good and religious to your priuate conceit which sauoreth altogither of mere vanitie and open flattery Phi. What S. Hierom meant God doth know you do not Theo. No more do you but yâ— hee meant not this which you would father on him we haue his owne witnes which you must beleeue vnlesse you can shewe better Thus hee complaineth of the Romanes both Pristes people in the epitaph of Marcella Haeretica in hijs Prouincijs exorta tempestas nauemplenam blasphemiarum Romano intulit portuâ— c. Romanae fidei purissimum fontem caeno lutosa permiscuere vestigia Tunc sancta Marcella postquam sensit fidem Apostolico ore laudatam in plerisque violari ita vt sacerdotes quoque ac nonnullos Monachorum maximeque seculi homines in assensum sui traheret ac simplicitati illuderet episcopi publice restitit An hereticall tempest rising in these Countries of the East caried full saile into the hauen of Rome c. vncleane feete did trouble with mud the most pure fountaine of the Romane faith Then holy Marcella when shee sawe the faith praised by the Apostles mouth violated in most thinges so that this heresie drew the Priestes and some Monkes and specially laimen into the consent of it selfe and deluded the simplicitie of the Bishop of Rome shee began to resist openly Note Sir that come to passe in Hieroms age and knowledge which you would proue by Hieroms words to be in all ages impossible The fountaine of the Romane faith defiled with mud the faith praised by the Apostles violated in most things the Priests the people drawen into the same consent the seely Bishop of Rome abused by them and the first that openly resisted a poore widow Go then and blaze to the world as you haue done in your magistrall annotations or rather deprauations of the new Testament which as you haue dressed it with your deuises and glozes is now nothing lesse than the Testament of Christ proclaime I say that infidelity can not come to the Romanes nor their faith be possibly changed that vpon the credits of Cyprian Hierom when they themselues did see and say the contrary Phi. We take no such care for the people of Rome whether they may straie from the faith or no Peters successour is he that our eyes are and ought to bee rather bent on and touching his holines we be resolued that he can not erre in faith Theo. His holinesse hath very good lucke then and better than all his neighbours besides but how shall wee knowe that hee can not erre Your worde is too weake to be taken for a matter of such weight fathers you bring none Scriptures you haue none which way will you make it appeare that his holinesse can not be stained with error Phi. No maruell that our Master would haue his vicars Consistorie and seate infallible seeing euen in the olde law the high Priesthood and chaire of Moses wanted not great priuilege in this case though nothing like the churches and Peters prerogatiue Theo. But we maruell where you finde that Christ would haue any vicar or that his vicars Seat is infallible or that the Bishop is that vicar which you speake of and we most maruell that you auouch al this vpon your single report without script or scrole to confirme the same The chaire of Moses had no such priuilege as you chalenge The people were to learne the law of God at the Priestes handes and hee that presumptuouslie despised the Priest or Magistrate giuing iudgement according to the tenour of Gods law died the death But this doth not proue that either the Priest or the Magistrate coulde not erre or that the Prophetes did not iustly reproue the Priestes when they sate to iudge according to the lawe for their manifest contempts breaches of the Law God by the mouth oâ— Malachy both describeth what the Priestes should do declareth what the Priests had done The Priestes lippes should preserue knowledge and they shoulde seeke the law at his mouth for he is the messenger of the Lord of hostes But yee are gone out of the way O ye Priests ye haue caused many to fall by the lawe ye haue broken the couenant of Leui saith the Lord of hostes This proude priuilege which you mention was claimed by the wicked Priestes in Ieremies time Come say they let vs imagine some deuise against Ieremie for the law shall not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet But God assureth them by his Prophet for this their arrogant presumption that the law should perish from the Priest and counsell from the auncient What grosse idolatrie Vriah the Priest committed to please king Ahaz the Scripture will tell you And were there no speciall examples the serious inuectiues of the Prophets against them and the whole land as well for false religion as corrupt manners are euident testimonies that Priestes from the lowest to the highest might erre Esaie saith The Priest and the Prophet haue erred they haue gone awaie they faile in vision they stumble in iudgement Our Sauiour charged his Disciples to beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadduces which needed not vnlesse it were erronious And think you these were no errours which the Sonne of God reproued in the Pharisees You haue made the coÌ„maundement of God of no authoritie by your tradition many such like things you do teaching for doctrines the commandements of men The Sadduces errour denying both the resurrection of the bodie and immortality of the soule is often mentioned in the Scriptures and openly refuted by our Sauior And yet the high Priestes were often Sadduces and in the chiefe councels consistories of Ierusalem where the greatest causes of religion and matters of weight were determined sate halfe Sadduces halfe Pharisees sometimes only Sadduces which were plaine Atheisâ—s and wicked heretikes Phi. That ouerthroweth not Peters priuilege Theo. Much lesse doth it establish Peters priuilege for the which cause you allege it but if Moses successour might erre why not Peters Phi. Our assertion is they can not erre you say they can Reason is that you proue your affirmatiue Theo. The Scripture proueth the generall that God is true and all men lyars you except the Bishoppe of Rome as not subiect to errour and ignoraunce reason is you proue your exception and that strongly least you bee conuicted of insolent presumption to fasten the spirite of truth to the Popes chaire without great and good assurance from him that is the fountaine of truth and the giuer of the holy Ghost Phi. We hold by Christes promise Theo. Shew that and you be discharged Phi. Thy faith shall not faile Theo. Proue that to bee spoken to the Bishoppe of Rome Phi. It was spoken to Peter Theo. But not to the Pope Phi. That which Peter had his successour
must haue Theo. The charge which Christ gaue Peter to feede his sheepe is common to all Pastours But with the mercy which Christ shewed him in conuerting him and restoring him after his fall what haue his successors to do Christ promised Peter repentance will you therefore inferre that all Popes haue the like promises Or had they as they haue not doeth this let but they may forsweare their master and loose their faith as Peter did notwithstanding this praier and promise of Christ made vnto him Phi. But they shall also repent as Peter did Theo. If you could proue that promise to pertaine vnto them as you can not yet might their errour be publike and their conuersion secret as Peters was and since they bee subiect to Peters fall namely to denie both their faith and their master though they were promised repentance with him as they bee not yet howe can you knowe what thinges proceeded from the Popes mouth erring and which from the Popes hart repenting Which vnlesse you doe you may erre with him to your eternall confusion and not repent with him for that you haue not the like promise Phi. I will bee with you to the worldes ende saith Christ and hee forsaketh those that erre So that if the church should erre this promise of his were not kept which God forbid Theo. You shew the goodnesse of your cause when you reele thus from the Pope to the church and from the church to the Pope and yet finde nothing to fitte you Christ is with euery one of his and not onely with the Pope as you would haue the place to sound and yet I thinke you will not affirm that no christian can erre Many good men haue erred euen in matters of faith and yet not beene forsaken of Christ. The longer you reason the farther you bee from prouing that the Pope can not erre For this promise concerneth him no more than it doth any other christian and perhaps not so much or if it did yet doth it not free him from errour Phi. The promise which is generall to euery member of the church concerneth him chiefly that is head of the church Theo. Keepe this head of yours till the body need it the church of Christ hath a surer and better head thā the Pope or else it were ill with her Phi. Christ we know is the head of his church and the onely head in such soueraigne and principall manner as no earthly man is or can be yet the Pope may be the ministeriall head Theo. When you proue it then say it in the meane while abuse not the word of God to serue your follies Christ dwelleth in the hartes of all that bee his by faith with them he remaineth vntill the worldes end What is this to the Pope or how doth this fense him from errour Phi. If he be Christs he can not erre Theo. This text doth not proue him to be one of Christs but if he bee then Christ is with him as hee is with all other his members Phi. And they can not erre with whom Christ is Theo. Bee these your demonstrations that the Pope can not erre to shewe for him no better nor other priuilege than that which is common to him with women children if they be mēbers of Christ And were he a mēber of Christ which as yet for ought that I see you can hardly proue hee might be deceiued in some cases of religion as well as Lactantius Irineus Cyprian and others men of great learning and good account in the church of God Phi. Our Sauiour saieth it is not possible that the electe shoulde be seduced Theo. Not possible they should bee seduced to fall from God as the wicked are Yet as they may sinne but not vnto death euen so may they erre but not vnto destruction Their errour shall either be not finall or not mortall Phi. May they that erre bee saued Theo. If they holde fast the foundation which is Christ and erre not of wilfull obstinacie but of humane frailtie why may they not bee saued S. Cyprian said of those that were before him If any of our predecessours either ignorantly or simply did not obserue and keepe that which the Lord by his example and authoritie willed his simplicitie may be pardoned by the goodnesse of God And S. Augustin said of him when an errour of his was alleadged by the Donatistes for their defence Cyprian either was not all of this opinion or he after corrected it by the rule of truth or this blemish in his most beautifull brest he couered with the teates of charity And farther alleadgeth and alloweth this saying of Cyprians Ignosci potest simpliciter erranti he that erreth of simplicity may be pardoned Of himselfe and all others S. Augustine saith Homines sumus vnde aliquid aliter sapere quà m se res habet humana tentatio est In nullo autem aliter sapere quā se res habet Angelica perfectio est We are men and therefore to thinke otherwise than the truth is is humane infirmitie or a tentation common to man To be deceiued in nothing is Angelicall perfection And therefore writing to S. Hierom and of S. Hierom he saith Prorsus non te arbitror sic legi libros tuos velle tanquam Prophetarum aut Apostolorum de quorum scriptis quòd omni errore careant dubitare nefarium Absit hoc à pia humilitate veraci de temetipso cogitatione I am fully of opinion that you would not haue your books to be read in such sort as wee do the Prophetes and Apostles of whose writinges to doubt whether they be free from all errour is wickednesse Be this far from godly humilitie and the true perswasion of your selfe So that set the Apostles aside and their writinges no man ought to thinke of himselfe that hee can not erre neither can you haue that opinion of any man without a proude false perswasion aboue mans state and against Gods truth Phi. What shall wee then saie to the promise which our Lorde made to his When hee the spirite of trueth commeth hee shall teach you all trueth Theo. If it bee referred to the Apostles then present with him as the wordes next before doe specifie I haue yet many things to saie vnto you but you can not beare them nowe wee graunt those witnesses chosen by Christ to teach all Nations were to bee furnished with all trueth and to bee established in the same but if it bee extended to all the faithfull they also shall bee ledde into all trueth needefull and requisite to saluation I meane the substantiall groundes of faith though in some questions of Religion happilie they shall not all bee like minded Phi. And what for the Churche shall shee haue no parte in this promise Theoph. If the faythfull haue the Church which is the number and collection of the faythfull must needes haue But that the
meane time learne that to beare the sworde is the Princes and not the Priests function and that the kings of Iudah which most vsed their temporall sword for the restoaring of trueth and purging of error wanne most fauour with God and honor with men as I shewed before in Dauid Iehosaphat Ezechias and Iosias Phi. To iudge of trueth is the Priests charge and that you referre to the Prince Theo. To know what must bee taught is the Pastours care to take heede what they beleeue or whom they follow God hath referred that to the hearers at their peril and more than that we giue no Prince Phi. The office and zeale of good Priests is notably recommended vnto vs in the deposition of the wicked Queene Athalia She to obtaine the Crowne after Ochasias killed all his children onely one which by a certaine good womans pietie was secretly withdrawen from the massacre saued and brought vppe within the Temple for seuen yeres space al which time the said Queene vsurped the kingdome till at length Ioida the high Priest by opportunitie called to him forces both of the Priestes and people proclaimed the right heire that was in his custodie annointed and crowned him king and caused immediatly the pretensed Queene notwithstanding shee cried Treason Treason as not onely iust possessors but wicked vsurpers vse to doe to bee slaine with her fautors at her owne Court gate Thus doe Priests deale and iudge for the innocent and lawfull Princes when tyme requireth much to their honour and agreeable to their holy calling Theo. Egernesse blindeth your vnderstanding when to prooue that a lawfull Prince may bee depriued of State and life which you seeke to defend you bring an example of a wicked woman vsurping the crowne and playing the tyrant that was suppressed and punished by the rightfull inheritour of the Scepter first proclaimed and Crowned by the consent of his whole Realme Phi. Ioida the high Priest commaunded her to bee slaine and not the king For he was a child of seuen yeeres age and had no such discretion Theo. Ioida had good warrant by the Lawes of God and man to do that hee did First hee saued the yong king aliue and hyding him from the furie of Athalia secretly nourced him in the house of God and in that respect might lawfully protect him and execute iustice for him Againe he was the Prince of his Tribe as wel as others were of their Tribes and therefore might take vpon him as much as any other of the Princes in the minoritie of the king to pacifie the Realme and punish the vsurper Thirdly his wife was the kinges aunt and himselfe the neerest allye that the king had and for that cause by the Lawe of nature and nations bound to see the Princes right age and innocencie defended Lastly that he did was by the common consent of al the Nobles and Captaines For the scripture sayth that before he ventered to proclaine king Ioash He caused the captaines the chiefe fathers of Israel to come vnto him into the house of the Lorde and made a couenant with them and tooke an othe of them in the house of the Lord and shewed them the kinges sonne So that Ioida had very good and sufficient authoritie without and besides his Priesthoode to doe that hee did which you dissemble and make a florish as if hee had done this only by vertue of his vocation which is most false Phi. No man can be ignorant howe stoutly Elias being sought to death by Achab and his Queene Iezabel that ouerthrewe holy Altars and murthered all the true religions that coulde bee founde in their lande tolde them to their face that not hee or other men of God whome they persecuted but they and their house were the disturbers of Israel And slewe in his zeale all the said Iezabels false Prophetes fostered at her Table euen foure hundred at one time and so set vppe holy Altars againe Howe hee handled the Idolatrous king Ochozias his Captaines and messengers wasting them and an hundred of their traine by fire from heauen till the third Captaine was forced to humble himselfe vppon his knees vnto him Howe hee had commission to annoint Hazael king of Syria Eliseus a Prophet for himselfe and Iehu king of Israel and so to put downe the sonne and whole house of Achab which thereby lost all the tytle and right to the kingdome for euer Theo. Elias zeale wee knowe and his stoue answere to Achab in saying I haue not troubled Israel but thou and thy fathers house in that yee haue forsaken the commandements of the Lord and thou hast followed Baalim Yet haue you but a colde sute of his stout speach For if Prophetes may reproue kings may they therefore depose them you bring your fiue wittes in question if you stand to this collection Phi. He slew in his zeale at one tyme foure hundred of Iezabels false Prophets fostered at her Table Theo. The famine which the land felt and the wonder which Elias did were the cause why king Achab deliuered the Prophetes of Baal into Elias handes to bee slaine by the people according to the Lawe of God Phi. Nay Elias slewe them Theo. Thinke you that Elias with his owne handes murdered so many Phi. The Scripture sayth Elias slue them interprete that howe you can Theo. I tooke Elias all this while for a Prophet and not for an executioner Phi. Though it were not his act to kill them it was his authoritie that they were killed Theo. His direction you might haue sayde but not his authoritie For Elias was a priuate man and no magistrate Phi. King Achab was farre enough from killing them had it not beene for Elias Theo. Elias might induce the king to doe it compell him hee coulde not Phi. Howe could Elias induce the King to doe that deede Theo. The famine was so great in Israel for lacke of raine that man and beast were ready to perish and raine they coulde haue none but at Elias woord as Elias had tolde the king before the drought beganne Meeting therefore with Achab and being chalenged by him as the author of this famine and troubler of Israel hee discharged himselfe and protessed before the King that GOD plagued the whole lande because hee and his fathers house had forsaken the commaundements of the Lorde followed other Gods And to iustifie his speach hee offered to prooue before all Israel on the daunger of his owne heade that the King and the lande were but seduced and abused by the Prophetes of Baal and that hee would proue by no woorse meanes than by miraculous fire from heauen which should shewe them whose sacrifice GOD accepted assuring them of raine abundant after their conuersion to the true GOD for which cause hee was at this tyme sent vnto them To this the king and the rest gaue their consents and when by the signe which Elias wrought
Caluinistes furie phrensie mutinie I know not what You may pursue depose murther Princes when the Bishop of Rome biddeth you that without breach of dutie law or cōscience to God or man as you vaunt though neither life nor limme of yours be touched wee may not so much as beseech Princes that we may be vsed like subiects not like slaues like men not like beasts that we may bee conuented by lawes before iudges not murthered in corners by inquisitours wee may not so much as hide our heades nor pull our neckes out of the greedie iawes of that Romish wolfe but the fome of your vncleane mouth is ready to call vs by al the names you can deuise Howbeit looke well to your selues it is not enough for you to haue lawes of your owne making to licence you to beare armes against your Prince you must haue Gods law for your warrant or else you come within the compasse of heinous and horrible rebellion For you doe not defend your selues but impugne your Prince you seeke not the freedom of your religion but the subuersion of other mens estates you do not take armes that your condition may be tolerable but that her highnes shoulde be no Prince you saue not your own liues but intend her death These shamefull and manifest treasons against the law of God nature and nations you smooth with a few faint colours and publish them to the whole world for iust honorable and godly warres But deceiue not your selues the breath of your mouthes may not ouerbeare the lawes of God states of men You must shew some better warrant than the Popes decrees or else your rising in armes against your Prince though the Bishoppe of Rome back and abet you with all his Buls and Decretals is an vnlawful irreligious and wicked rebellion Phi. Whosoeuer seeketh not after the Lord God of Israell let him bee slaine saide king Asa admonished by Azaria the Prophet from the highest to the lowest without exception And all the people and many that followed him and fled to him out of Israel from the schisme there did sweare and vowe them-selues in the quarrell of the God of their forefathers And they prospered and deposed Queene Maáchah Mother to Asa for Apostasie and for worshipping the venereous God called Priapus Theo. Doth the example of king Asa forcing his Subiectes with an othe and vnder paine of death to seeke after the Lorde God of Israel serue you to proue that Subiectes may assault their king and oppresse him with armes Will this goe for a reason with you The Magistrate may vse the sworde and put offendours to death ergo the Subiect may vse the same and that against his Prince Sure if you make such collections wee shall mistrust rebellion hath so possessed your braynes that reason hath no place in you Phi. This example proueth that heretikes may be deposed and put to death Theo. But by whom By the Prince or the people Phi. The king I grant was the doer Theo. Then seeke farther for your conspiracies against kinges this example will do you no good Phi. The people that fledde to him out of Israel from the schisme there did sweare and vowe themselues in the same quarrell with the king of Iudah Theo. The straungers that fledde out of Israell for their conscience sake tooke an oth to serue the same God but not to beare armes against their owne countrie Phi. They prospered and deposed Queene Maáchah mother to Asa for Apostasie and for worshipping the venereous God Priapus Theo. You inlarge the number where you should not which by your leaue is a plaine corruption of the Scripture The text is And king Asa deposed Maáchah his mother from her regēcie because she had made an idoll And againe not they but he deposed Maáchah his mother from her estate because she had made an idol The Queene mother was remoued from her honor dignitie by the king her sonne for her idolatrie but Asa did not put her to death though that were the summe of the oth which the king and the rest tooke and he that did this deede was the true king of Iudah and in full possession of the crowne many yeares before and suffered his mother not in her owne right but of reuerence curtesie towards her to inioy some part of her former degree and dignitie from the which he lawfully might and worthily did put her when shee fell to erecting and worshipping Idols Phi. The text noteth not howe long hee was king before hee deposed his mother Theo. After the death of Abiah Asa his sonne saieth the Scripture raigned in his steede in whose dayes the Land was quiet tenne yeares Then came the AEthiopians out against him with an huge hie host those hee ouerthrew And at his returne the Prophet Azariah met him and incouraged him to goe forwarde in the reformation of the Lande which hee perfourmed in all the Cities of Iudah and Beniamin and gathered all the people of the Lande togither in the fifteenth yeare of his raigne where this oth was taken and paine appointed before his mother was deposed So that he not shee was rightfull Gouernour of Iudah and that which shee lost was either the honour and dignitie which otherwise did appertaine to so great a State as the kinges mother or else that portion of the Lande which was assigned to her to rule vnder the king in respect of her dowrie Howsoeuer the kingdome shee had not and therefore the crowne she lost not neither finde you here a Prince deposed by his subiectes but a Prince remouing her that in nature was his mother in condition his subiect from that authoritie or dignitie choose you whether which before of fauor not of duety he suffered her to haue Phi. For that case also in Deuteronomie expresse charge was giuen to slea all false Prophetes and whosoeuer should auert the people from the true worship of God induce them to receiue straunge Gods and newe religions and to destroie all their followers were they neuer so neere vs by nature And in the same place that if anie Citie shoulde reuolt from the receiued and prescribed worship of God begin to admit new religions it should be vtterly wasted by fire and sword Theo. The commaundement in Deuteronomie toucheth not heretiks but manifest Apostataes such as cleane forsooke the verie name and outward profession of God and serued straunge and new gods and the rigour of this precept I meane the punishment doeth not binde vs that are vnder the Gospell by the iudgement of the best learned that euer taught in the church of Christ. For by the same law of God blasphemers adulterers witches strikers and cursers of Parentes should die Which penalties your owne church did neuer execute nor any christian Magistrate that euer wee reade of Touching heretikes you heard Sainct Augustines opinion before that it neuer pleased any good man in the
to come from God and not from man If you saie that Abia sought not for the kingdome but for Religion though his owne wordes sound to the contrarie knowe you that as Ieroboam was starke naught so Abia for all his crakes and your praises was little better The holie Ghost whose report wee must beleeue before yours saieth that hee walked in all the sinnes of his Father which hee had doone before him and that his heart was not right with the Lorde his God And the sinnes of his Father are thus described in the Scripture Iudah wrought wickednesse in the sight of the Lorde and they prouoked him more with their sinnes which they committed than all that which their Fathers had doone For they also made them high places and images and groues on euerie high hill and vnder euerie greene tree There were also Sodomites in the Land that did according to all the abominations of the people which the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel This was in the time of Roboam Abia walked in al his waies and therefore lacked not much of Ieroboans wickednesse though you make him a victorious religious conquerour That Edom and Libuah reuolted from king Ioram is verie true but that their reuolt was either lawfull or for religion that you proue not Edom had no such respect they were prophane persons and Infidels and as soone as they sawe their time they cast off the yoke which the kinges of Iudah had laide vpon them But not long after in the raigne of Amaziah they were meetely wel plagued by the king of Iudah for their reuolting he smiting tenne thowsand of them with the sworde and taking other tenne thowsand aliue and casting them down from the top of a rocke that they burst al to peeces thereby to giue them a iust recompence for their former rebellion The Scripture saith that Libuah a citie of the Priests as appeareth by the first allotment made in the 21. of the booke of Ioshua rebelled at the same time but it commendeth their rebellion no more than it doeth the rebellion of Edom. It will be as hard for you to proue either of them did well as that your selues may do the like Leude deedes are reported in the Scripture as will as good but not commended No more are these Phi. The text saith they did it because the king of Iudah had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers Theo. The Scripture doth not set down the cause why they might lawfully doe it but addeth this as a reason why God suffered these troubles to fall on king Ioram As if it should haue said no maruell to see these rebell against him for he had forsaken the God of his fathers And if this were a fault in king Ioram to forsake the God of his fathers as in truth it was how can the priests of Libuah be excused for seuering themselues from the line of Dauid without warrant from God that which was worse from the temple seruice of God established by expresse commandement at Ierusalem If that be true which you say that Libuah could neuer be recouered again to the kingdom of Iudah your selfe conuince them of a pestileÌ„t wicked reuolt For though they might pretend religion against king Ioram yet against the godly kings of Iudah which followed as Ezechiaâ— Iosias others they could pretend none therfore by your own confession it was no defection from Iorams idolatrie but a plaine rebellion against the kingdom of Iudah an vtter renouncing the Altar Temple seruice of God at IerusaleÌ„ Which how it might stand with their duties to God his law we yet conceiue not neither wil you euer be able to iustifie that fact of theirs with all your cunning and eloquence The ten tribes assembled to sight with Ruben Gad for building an Altar by Iordan against the commandement of God and therein they did but their duties If you aske by what authority they did it the answere is easie Their commonwealth coÌ„sisting of 12. tribes al indued with like soueraignty ten might lawfully represse two without any farther warraÌ„t as after they did the Beniamits for that filthy fact of the men of Gibeah But yet at this time Ioshua liued whom God himselfe had appointed captaine ruler of the 12. tribes therfore besides that authority which the whole had ouer a part that in common regimeÌ„t is sufficeÌ„t there was a superior magistrate at the denouÌ„cing of these wars and though they had fought togither as equals yet will not that example ratiâ—ie the rebelling of subiectes against their Princes which is your purpose Phi. Since Christs law religion was establâ—shed diuerse great honorable fights haue bin made for the faith against princes and prouinces that vniustly withstood and annoied the same Theo. What warres haue bin for religion since the comming of Christ if you meane between Prince Prince Realme Realme is bootles for you to seeke needlesse for vs to answere We dispute not what causes may iustly be pursued with battel but what what persons are permitted to take the sword against whom And vnto the time of Gregory the 1. which compasse you take to bring vs some presidents of your doings you can not shew that euer christian subiects did beare armes against their Princes for any quarrell of regilion were allowed Rebellions were rife in those ages as well as now but we deny that the Church of Christ or the godly Bishops of those times did euer consent allow or like those tumults much lesse procure them or vse them for the safegard of their Sees as you beare men in hand they did Phi. In old times of the primatiue church the christian Armenians lawfully defended themselues by armes against their Emperor Maximinus Theo. You that feare not to depraue the scriptures wil make no bones to corrupt vitiate other Stories at your pleasures The Armenians being no subiects but confederats wheÌ„ Maximinus would haue compelled them to worship idols to that ende offered them force resisted as they lawfully might of fellowes friends became straÌ„gers aduersaries The words of Eusebius are very plaine for that purpose Maximinus had also warre with the Armenians who of long time before that had bin friendes confederates with the Romanes That people being christians very deuoute this hatefull tyrant attempting to force to the sacrifices of idols diuels made them of friends foes of collegues enimies Phi. The Catholike people of diuers Prouinces haue often by force defended and kept their Bishoppes in their seates against the Infidels but specially against the commaundements of heretical Emperors yea and resisted them in defence of their Churches and the sacred goods of the same As the Citizens of Antioche defended their Church against the Emperour Galerius his officers Theo. Your generall and voluntarie
Their owne words testifie they were christians for when Iouinian the next day after Iulians death was chosen Emperour by them refused the place because he thought the most part of the souldiers to be Gentiles they cried al with one common voyce and confessed themselues to be christians Against Valens the church of Christ had forces abundant if shee would haue sounded or vsed them For all the tyme of his raigne not onely the West Emperours were Catholikes first Valentinian and after him Gratian but Procopius at Constantinople taking armes against Valens and the Gothes detayning all Thracia from him gaue the Christians great aduantage to haue shaken him cleane out of the East Empire if their willes had beene answerable vnto their strength Valentinian the yonger infected with Arianisme Maximus a rebell of this land thrust quite from the West Empire made him flie into the East partes and had not Theodosius a Catholike Prince conquered that Tyrant and restoared the yong Prince to his Scepter againe he had lost his Crowne for euer Where you see not only what forces the Catholikes had but howe farre they were from deposing hereticall gouernours that woulde hazard their liues to restoare them And what thinke you was the force of all the christians in the worlde when the people of one Citie falling into a sedition for matter of Religion so preuayled and passed all the power of resisting that Anastasius the Emperour was faine to come to an open place without his Crowne and by heraults to signifie to the people that he was readie with a very good will to resigne the Empire into their handes At the sight of whom the people moued with that spectacle chaunged their mindes and besought Anastasius to keep the Crowne and promised for their partes to be quiet Yet was Anastasius both an heretike and an excommunicate person if your owne words before or stories otherwise may be trusted Not therefore disabilitie but dutie not lacke of competent forces but a reuerent regarde of the Apostles Doctrine kept the Primatiue Church of Christ from resisting her Princes Shee neuer determined shee neuer attempted any such thing shee might often tymes haue repelled them from their Seates and woulde not but taught all men to submitte themselues and rather to bee crowned as martyrs for enduring than to bee punished as rebels for inuading their Princes For they that resist shall receiue iudgement which not onely the auncient Christians but the very Barbarians did confesse Athanaricus king of the Gothes when hee came to visite Theodosius Sine dubio inquit Deus terrenus est Imperator contra quem quicunque manus leuare nisus fuerit ipse suâ— sanguinis reus existit No doubt sayth hee the Emperour is the God of the earth against whom whosoeuer will offer to lift vp his hand is guiltie of his owne blood Phi. Yea the quarel of Religion and defence of innocencie is so iust that heathen Princes not at all subiect to the Churches Lawes and discipline may in that case by the Christians armes bee resisted and â—ight lawfully haue beene repressed in tymes of the Pagans and first great persecutions when they vexed and oppressed the faithful but not otherwise as most men thinke if they would not annoy the Christians nor violently hinder or seeke to extirpate the true fayth and course of the Gospel Though S. Thomas seemeth also to say that any heathen king may be lawfully depriued of his superioritie ouer Christians Theo. What S. Thomas seemeth to say wee care not so long as we know what S. Paul sayth and that is You must bee subiect not onely for feare of wrath or lacke of force when you can not choose but euen for conscience sake though you were able to resist If your schooles haue gotten any other doctrine than this looke you to that wee bee the disciples of Christ and not of Occam Scotus or Thomas men may by this perceiue what your schoolemen would aduenture in other pointes of Religion that in so cleare a case of conscience and obedience they woulde flatly contradict the holy Ghost Heathen Princes may not bee resisted by their Christian subiects of them Saint Paul wrate when hee sayde Whosoeuer resisteth power resisteth the ordinance of God and of them Christ spake when hee charged vs to giue vnto Caesar the things which are Caesars They might not therefore lawfully haue beene repressed in the tymes of the Pagans and first great persecutions when they vexed and oppressed the faithfull because sufferance made their subiects martyrs before God whome resistance would haue doubbed for rebels against God and man If your meaning bee that by Christian Princes had there been any such in those dayes they might lawfully haue beene repressed and pursued with armes you alter the question and touch not our case Wee reason not what Christian Princes may doe to heathen Tyrants but what duetie Christian subiects must yeelde to their Princes bee they Pagans or others that beare the swoorde And for that wee haue the manifest voyce of Gods spirite which I haue often repeated and against the which wee giue eare to no creature man nor Angel That voyce the church of Christ diligently remembred and constantly followed as Tertullian witnesseth Wee are disfamed sayth hee concerning the Emperours maiestie but neuer yet Albinians Nigrians nor Cassians Albinus Niger and Cassius being rebels in his tyme could bee found to be Christians A Christian is enemie to no man much lesse to the Prince whom he knoweth to be appointed of God so of necessitie must loue reuerence and honour him and wish him safe with the whole Romane Empire Therefore wee sacrifice for the health of the Emperour but vnto our God and his God and with chast prayer as GOD hath commaunded So that wee pray for the Emperours health more than you asking it of him that is able to giue it And God forbid we should take those thinges which we suffer in euill part since wee desire to suffer them or imagine any reuenge against you which wee waite for at Gods leasure Yet needefull it is wee lament your case since not a citie of yours shall escape at Gods hande for the shedding of our blood And againe in his Apologie for all Christians Thou that thinkest we haue no care of the welfare of our Princes looke vppon the woordes of GOD I meane our bookes which neither wee suppresse and many chaunces bring to your eyes Knowe that there wee are commaunded for the plentifull encrease of our charitie to pray to God for our enemies and to wish wel to our persecutours Yea namely and plainely he sayth Pray for kings for Princes and powers that all things may bee peaceable vnto them For the Empire can not bee shaken but wee also must bee partakers of the fall And after some woordes But what speake I more of the religion and pietie of Christians towardes
the Emperour Whome wee must needes reuerence as one that our Lorde and master hath chosen And to speake the trueth Caesar is rather ours than yours as being ordained by our God And giuing a better reason for their obeying than you can for your warring We are saith hee the same men to our Princes that wee are to our neighbours To wish euill to doe euill to speake euill to thinke euill is indifferently forbidden vs towardes all men Wee may do that to no man which we say we may not to our Prince and if to no man so much the lesse to him that is so highly aduanced by our God This is sounder and seemelier doctrine for Christians than that which you bring vs out of Thomas Aquinas And where you will vs by the note in your margin to See S. Thomas a Saint of your making wee will you to See S. Paul and S. Peter Saints past all doubting You see the continuall obedience of Christes Church so long as Pagan and heathen Princes had the sworde Shee taught that all men and most of all Christians shoulde loue reuerence and honour heathen Princes as ordayned by God to beare the swoorde euen by the God of Christians and that they might neither wish euill doe euill speake euill or thinke euill of any such Powers much lesse resist them with armes and depriue them of their superioritie ouer Christians as your new saint seemeth to say And lest you thinke the Christians of those times serued and honoured heathen Princes rather for feare than for conscience which is an open slaunder to them and a lewde shift of yours directly thwarting the woordes of Saint Paul You must be subiect not because of wrath only but also for conscience sake You shall heare Tertullians report in the same place what forces the christians had if they had thought it lawfull or godly to resist when they were cruelly vexed and oppressed One night saith he with a few fierbrands would yeeld vs reuenge sufficient if it were lawfull with vs to requite euill with euill But God forbid that either they which take part with GOD shoulde reuenge themselues with humane fier or be greeued to suffer wherein they be tried If we would not practise secrete reuenge but professe open enmitie could we lacke nūber of men or force of armes Are the Moores think you or the Parthians or any one nation whatsoeuer mo in nūber than wee that are spred ouer the whole world We are not of you yet we haue filled al the places roomes which you haue your Cities Ilands Castles townes assēblies your tents tribes and wardes yea the very Palace Senate iudgement seates For what warre were wee not able and readie though wee were fewer in number than you that goe to our deathes so gladly if it were not more lawfull in our religion to be slaine than to slea We could without armes neuer rebelling but only diuiding our selues from you haue doone you spite enough with that separation For if so great a multitude as we are should haue broken from you into some corner of the world the losse of so many Citizens woulde haue both shamed you punished you Beleeue me you would haue bin afraid to see your selues left alone and amazed as amongst the dead to see silence desolation euery where You woulde haue had moe enemies than inhabitauntes where nowe you haue fewer enemies by reason of the multitude of your Citizens that are almost all Christians Within two hundreth yeeres after Christ the beeleeuers as you heare by Tertullian wanted neither number strength nor courage to resist or reuenge their persecutours What numbers and forces then had they foure fiue sixe hundreth yeeres after Christ when they were backed by Princes defended by Lawes and prouoked with fauours and honours to professe Religion and yet all that while neither vnder Pagans nor Arrians did they or woulde they resist with armes but yeelded their liues with all submission though they wanted neither meanes nor multitude conuenient for any warres Phi. Howsoeuer that bee plaine it is that kinges that haue professed the fayth of Christ and the defence of his Church and Gospell may bee and haue beene iustly both excommunicated and deposed for iniuries done to Gods Church and reuolt from the same as sometimes also for other great crimes tending to the pernition of the whole people subiect vnto them Theo. You presume more in seuen lynes than you are able to prooue in seuen yeres That Popes haue attempted to depose Princes and for the perfourming of their enterprise haue shaken the Church with horrible schismes and wearied the worlde with slaughter and bloodshed wee knowe full wel you neede not vrge it But that they iustly did or might depose Princes which is the point we striue for though you affirme it to bee plaine wee denie it to bee true and therein the paune of your bare credit if you knew not so much before we take for no good euidence in this cause Phi. To speake specially of matter of religion and the crimes therevnto belonging Leo the third was excommunicated and depriued of all his temporalities in Italie by Gregorie the second For defect also in Religion and of the Churches defence were the Greeke Emperours discharged and the Empire translated to the Germanes by Pope Leo the third As afterward diuers German Emperors for notable iniuries doone to Gods Church for sacrilege and for heresie by godly discipline of the Church and by the diligence of sundrie Popes haue beene brought to order or in fine deposed or els where they would not obay Christs Vicar either in themselues or in their posteritie haue beene notoriously by God confounded As Frederick the first Fredericke the second Otho the first Lewes the third Lewes the fourth and whom we name last because we must say some thing more of him Henry the third or as some call him the fourth by Gregorie the seuenth which example the Libeller and other heretiques most mention for that the saide Henry so obstinatly resisted though otherwise by the inuincible courage and constancie of the Pope often brought to penance and extremitie that in fine by armes he draue the saide Pope out of his Sea and placed an Antipape that is to say one so opposite to Christs Vicar as Antichrist shall be against Christ which by armes and Patronage of this wicked Emperour vsurped and occupied the Apostolical throne against the true Pope Gregorie the seuenth whom the Libeller after the vulgar vaine of rebellious heretiques voutsafeth not the name of Gregorie the seuenth but calleth him commonly Hildebrand as the heretiques when they were in armes in Germanie against their Emperour would not name him Charles the fifth nor Emperour but Charles of Gaunt Theo. Finding no president for the Depriuation of Princes within the first sixe hundred yeeres after Christ you goe lower to get somewhat for your purpose and within the
impugned at one tyme. Phi. Hee impugned Concubinaries and Symonists Theo. So your Cloysterers called such as were maried and preferred by the Prince and for that cause they tooke stitch with the Pope against the Prince and highly commended Hildebrand as the first begynner of ecclesiasticall puritie and libertie But in deede it was but a quarrell sought out by the Pope vnder a faire pretence to tread downe Princes and exalt himselfe He could beare no such sway as he woulde in the Church so long as the Bishops did depend on the Prince and not on the Pope For by their helpe the Prince often tymes not only crossed but depriued the Pope if hee waxed vnruly or ouer lustie This was it that Hildebrande could not digest Lighting therefore on a Prince that was young and somewhat lasciuious and perceiuing the Nobles of his Realme to dislike and disdaine one an other and seeing the Normanes in Italie able to withstande the Emperours force and the Saxons in Germanie willing to cast off the Yoke as they thought of bondage and getting into such fauour with Mathilda a great mightie Ladie of Italie that shee should not bee out of his sight but as a very friend of Gregories sayth Pontificis Lateri comes indiuidua adhaerebat eumque miro colebat affectu shee cleaued to the Popes side as his continuall companion and loued him exceedingly Hildebrande hauing these oportunities gaue the aduenture both to pull all spirituall liuings out of the Princes gift that the Clergie might depend on him and not on their Prince and to shewe him-selfe the censurer and deposer of Kinges and Emperours if they withstoode him And for that cause hee first decreed it to bee Symonie to take any spirituall lyuing at a lay mans handes and in the same Synode did excommunicate as well the giuers as the takers were they Dukes Princes or Kinges which hee knewe the Emperour neither coulde nor woulde endure Not long after hee receiued diuers and sundrie suggestions against the King from the Saxons who sought by armes what they coulde to preuaile against the Prince and when that succeeded not fell to slaundering and accusing their king for answere whereto the Pope summoned the King to appeare at Rome and prefixed him a day to cleare him-selfe of those crimes And when the king neither would loose his right in bestowing his Bishoprickes and Benefices as he sawe cause and as his progenitours before him had doone and refused to come in Person to answere the complaints of rebels against him but sent his Agents to refell their obiections the Pope discouering the malice and pride which till that tyme hee concealed tooke the Princes messengers and cast them in Prison and caused them to bee caried about the Citie as gazing stockes and in his Synode depriued the Emperour both of the communion of the faythfull and of his Crowne and kingdome also and to his dying day would not bee remoued from his purpose Philand These bee your vaine collections which wee regarde not Theo. I looke not you shoulde regarde mine but if your owne writers which haue laboured in this matter finde the report which I make to bee true you may not so lightly neglect them Auentinus a man addicted to your religion not to ours exactly and vprightly weighing the partes and proofes of this cause obserueth the same that I doe and a great deale more Philand Auentinus was too fauourable to the Germanes his Countriemen Theop. Any writer may bee touched in that sort with fauour or affection If you reiect men of the same profession with you because they differ in iudgement from you much more is it lawfull for vs in this contention betweene the Prince and the Pope to refuse such as were altogether inclined and deuoted to the See of Rome If you trust not Auentine because hee was a Germane why should we trust those Monkes and Bishoppes that were ioyned in faction with Hildebrand against the king Philand Will you trust none but your seluee Theoph. You doe not so much as trust your selues wee alleage none but your owne men in this case and you trust them not Philand Wee giue you some cause why wee trust them not Theoph. None but this that you like them not your other exceptions bee very friuolous If some were Germanes and fauoured the Prince others were Italians and flattered the Pope You trust not the one nor wee the other let therefore the sticklers of both sides alone and examine the doers them-selues I hope you will beleeue Gregories woordes and not distrust him as you doe the rest Philand He wil not belie him-selfe Theo. Then touching the causes of Henries excommunication the Pope himselfe maketh this report to the Princes of Germanie Pro hijs illum causis primum videlicet quod ab eorum communione qui pro sacrilegio reatu simoniaca haeresis excommunicati sunt se abstiuere noluit deinde quod pro criminosis actibus paenitentiam non dico suscipere sed nec promittere voluit Synodali iudicio eum excommunicauimus For these causes to witte first for that he would not forbeare their companie which were excommunicated for the sacrilegious and hereticall guylt of Symonie next for that hee was so farre from taking any penance at our handes for his criminall actes that he would promise none we by a Synodal sentence did excommunicate him Here bee the two causes which the Pope pretended for his excommunicatiō and deposition of the prince partaking with Symonists and refusall of iudgement penance at his hands Philand Were not Symonie and obstinacie two great crimes Theoph. Your holy father did call that Symonie which was none Philand The Prince did sell Bishoprickes and Benefices Theoph. So your Monkes affirme but they lie the more The Pope him-selfe you see doeth not charge him with selling Bishoprickes or benefices but with retaining their societie that did Lambertus that lyued in that tyme and wholy fauoured Gregorie confesseth that by many examples the Prince shewed howe much hee detested the corruption and ambition of Prelates and Abbates seeking preferment by money and flatterie When the Abbay of Fulde was voide and the King with his Nobles conferring about the choice of a newe the Abbates and Monkes sayth Lambertus as it had beene at a solemne game began to offer some golden mountains other great booties out of the lands of the Abbay and some more seruices to the common-wealth than accustomed and in offering they kept neither meane nor modestie horum impudentiam rex vehementissimé vt dignum erat detestatus the king most vehemently detesting their impudencie as it became him when hee was importuned with their prayers and offers on the suddaine ledde with a diuine spirite as men thought called one Ruzelin a Monke that stoode before him which came to the court about the busines of his house at the commaundement of the Abbate and neuer dreampt of any
their eyes which all the godly beleeue with their heartes If oyle bee wanting they bee perfect Magistrates notwithstanding and Gods annointed as well as if they were inoyled And so for the person of the Bishoppe that doeth annoynt them It is fittest it be done by the highest but yet if they can not or will not any Bishoppe may perfourme it Authoritie to condition with Princes at the tyme of their coronation the Bishoppe hath none hee is faythfully to declare what GOD requireth at the handes of Princes not in religion onely but in rewarding vertue reuenging sinne relieuing the poore and innocent repressing the violent procuring peace and doing iustice throughout their Realmes and that if they faile in any of these God will not faile seuerely to visite the breach of his Lawe and contempt of their callings but yet hee hath no commission to denounce them depriued if they misse in some or all of these dueties much lesse to drawe Indentures betweene God and Princes conteyning the forfeiture of their crownes with a clause for the Pope and no man else to reenter if they keepe not couenants Phi. You graunt they bee bounde to God to defend the Church and true Religion Theo. Euen so bee they bound to doe those other thinges which I before rehearsed The couenaunt which God made with the Prince of his people was to feare the Lorde his God and to keepe not some but all the wordes of his Law The othe which the Kinges of Englande take hath many thinges besides the defence of the fayth and the Church The King shall feare God and loue him aboue all things and keepe gods precepts through his whole kingdome Hee shall aduance good Lawes and approoued customes and banish all euill Lawes from his kingdome Hee shal doe right iudgement in his realme and maintaine iustice by the counsell of his Nobles with many other points there specified All these thinges the King in his owne person shall sweare beholding and touching the holy Gospel in the presence of the people the Priestes and the Clergie before hee bee crowned by the Archbishoppes and Bishoppes of his Realme Shal a king bee deposed if hee reuolt as you call it from his promise and othe in any of these points Phi. Heresie and infidelitie tend directly to the perdition of the common-wealth and the soules of their subiects and notoriously to the annoyance of the Church true Religion Theoph. Wee compare not vices but discusse the vitiousnes of your conclusion Kinges you say couenant with GOD at their annointing That othe and promise if they breake with God the people you adde may and by order of Christs supreme minister their chiefe Pastor in earth must needes breake with them If by BREAKING you ment not obeying them in those particular cases which tend to the defacing of Gods trueth your illation were not much amisse for in all things wee must obey God rather than man but by BREAKING you vnderstand an vtter refusing of obedience in all other cases and a violent remoouing them from their crownes which we say is not lawfull for Pastor nor people to atteÌ„pt against princes though they answere not their duties to God in euerie point They couenant at the same time and with the same oth the keeping and obseruing of the whole lawe of God and yet was there neuer any man so brainsicke as to defend that Princes for euerie neglect and offence against the Law should be deposed Phi. Heresie is one of the greatest breaches of Gods Law Theo. To hold the truth of God in manifest and knowen vnrighteousnes without repentance is a greater impietie than ignorantly to be deceiued in some points of religion but we stand not on the degrees of sinnes which God will reuenge from the greatest to the smallest as much as on the person which may do it and the warrant whereby it must be done We deny that Princes haue any superiour and ordinarie Iudge to heare and determine the right of their Crownes Wee deny that God hath licenced any man to depose them and pronounce them no Princes The sonne cannot desherit his father nor the seruant countermaund his master by the lawes of God and nature be the father and master neuer so wicked Princes haue farre greater honour and power ouer subiects than any man can haue ouer sonnes and seruantes They haue power ouer goods lands bodies and liues which no priuat man may chalenge They be fathers of our Countries to the which we be nearer bound by the very confession of Ethnikes than to the fathers of our flesh Howe then by Gods law should subiects depose their Princes to whom in most euident woords they must bee subiect for conscience sake though they bee tyrauntes and Infidels And if the subiects them-selues haue no such power what haue strangers to meddle or make with their Crownes Phi. Doe you count the Pope a straunger to Christian Princes Theo. Would God he were not woorse euen a mortall and cruell enimie to al that bee Godlie He was a subiect vnder them eight hundreth yeares and vpwarde he after by sedition and vsurpation grewe to bee a sâ—ate amongest them a Superiour ouer them in causes concerning their Crownes and states you shall neuer prooue him to bee For a thousand yeares he durst offer no such thing these last fiue hundreth hee often assayed it and was as often repelled from it by factions conspiracies excommunications and rebellions hee molested and grieued some of them as I haue shewed but from the ascention of our Lorde and Sauiour to this present day neuer Prince Christian did yeeld and acknowledge any such power in the Pope and those that seemed in their neighbours harmes somewhat to regard his doings for an aduauntage when the case concerned them-selues most boldlie reiected his iudgements Phi. By the fall of the King from the faith the danger is so euident and ineuitable that GOD had not sufficientlie prouided for our saluation and the preseruation of his Church and holie Lawes if there were no way to depriue or restraine Apostata Princes Theo. You make vs many worthy reasons for the depriuation of Princes but of all others this is the cheifest If there were no way to depriue Princes God hath not say you sufficiently prouided for our saluation and the preseruation of his Church Euen so one of your owne fellowes saide before you of the verie same poinâ—e Non viderâ—tur Dominus discretus fuisse vt cum reuerentia â—ius loquar c. The Lorde by his leaue should haue seemed scant discreete except hee had left one such Vicar behind him as might doe all things to witte depose Emperours and all other Princes Unlesse your rebellious humours may take place you stick not to charge the sonne of God with lack of discretion negligence but looke better about you ye blasphemous mouths you shall see that the Church of God is purest when
not onely their kingdomes from them but also their liues Phi. That wee meane when they will not otherwise obey Theo. By your construction meaning the world is well amended with you For where the holy Ghost commandeth Prelates Popes and all others to bee subiect to Princes you with the cunning of your keyes giue the Spirit of God the plaine â—lip and chalenge not onely right to rule them but power to depriue them at your pleasures And this haynous impietie lest the simple should distrust it you ouer-spred with a couer of the Catholike fayth as if the Popes ambition and your sedition were lately become parts of Christes doctrine Phi. In obedience to the keyes wee put no difference betweene princes and priuate persons Theo. Proue that of priuate persons which you presume touching Princes and we will agnise the rest though wee neede not Philand What shall wee proue Theo. That the Popes keyes by Gods Lawe reach vnto the goods or landes of the meanest subiect in this Realme Phi. I proued that before by the dealing of Peter with Ananias and of Paul with Elimas Theo. And I answered you before that from Gods miraculous woorking by their mouthes to your ordinarie calling and attempting the like with your handes is no good argument And therefore they might pronounce the woord and not bee murderers because the fact was Gods and not theirs you can not execute the Popes censures without actuall conspiring and rebelling against your Prince which God hath prohibited If then you may not offer the poorest crafts-man that is that wrong by the word of God what grouÌ„d of christian religion can this be that the Pope may take the sword and Scepter from the Prince and commaund you to bee his helpers and coadiutours in that wicked enterprise whom the Apostle chargeth to giue tribute custome feare and honour to superiour powers that haue the swoorde in Gods steede to rewarde good and reuenge euill Phi. May not the shepheard reclaime the sheepe if they will not bee ruled Theo. But no good sheepheard lameth or killeth his sheepe though they will not bee folded and yet similitudes bee no syllogismes I trust you will not claime that same dominion ouer Princes which owners haue ouer their sheepe and oxen Phi. No but I shewe you by this example that correction is permitted where direction is refused Theo. Pastours haue their kind of correction euen ouer Princes but such as by Gods law may stand with the Pastors vocation and tend to the Princes saluation and that exceedeth not the worde and Sacraments other correction ouer any priuate man Pastours haue none much lesse ouer Princes Phi. Yeas they may force them to repentance if they can not perswade them Theo. Princes may force their subiects by the temporall sworde which they beare bishoppes may not force their flocke with any corporall or externall violence Chrysostome largely debateth and fully concludeth this matter with vs. If any sheepe sayth he goe out of the right way leauing the plentifull pastours graze on barren and steepe-places the sheephearde somewhat exalteth his voyce to reduce the dispersed and stragling sheepe and to compell them to the flocke But if any man wander from the right pathe of the christian fayth the Pastor must vse great paynes care and patience Neque enim vis illi inferenda neque terrore ille cogendus verùm suadendus tantum vt de integro ad veritatem redeat For hee may not be forced nor constrayned with terror but only perswaded to returne againe to the truth And again A Bishop can not cure men with such authoritie as a sheepheard doeth his sheep For a sheepeheard hath his choyce to bynde his sheepe to diet them to seare them and cut them but in the other case the facilitie of the cure consisteth not in him that giueth but onely in him that taketh the medicine This that admirable teacher perceiuing sayd to the Corinthians not that wee haue any dominion ouer you vnder the name of fayth but that wee are helpers of your ioy For of all men Christian Bishoppes may least correct the faults of men by force Iudges that are without the Church when they take any transgressing the Lawes they shewe them-selues to bee endued with great authoritie and power and compell them in spite of their heartes to chaunge their manners But here in the Church wee may not offer any violence but only perswade Wee haue not so great authoritie giuen vs by the Lawes as to represse offendours and if it were lawfull for vs so to doe wee haue no vse of any such violent power for that Christ crowneth them which abstaine from sinne not of a forced but of a willing minde and purpose Hilarie teacheth the same lesson If this violence were vsed for the true fayth the Doctrine of Bishoppes woulde bee against it God needeth no forced seruice hee requireth no constrained confession I can not receiue any man but him that is willing I cannot giue eare but to him that intreateth I cannot signe any but him that gladly professeth Origen agreeth with them both See the wisedome of the holy Ghost Because that other faults are iudged by the Lawes of Princes and it seemed superfluous nowe to prohibite those thinges by Gods Lawe which are sufficiently reuenged by mans he repeateth those and none else as fit for religion of which mans Lawe sayde nothing Whereby it appeareth that the Iudges of this world doe meddle with the greatest part of Gods lawe For all the crimes which God woulde haue reuenged hee would haue them reuenged not by the Bishoppes and rulers of the Church but by the Iudges of the worlde that Paul knowing rightly calleth the Prince Gods minister and iudge of him that doeth euill Phi. Bishoppes may not offer force with their owne handes but they may command others to doe it for them Theoph. A grosse shift As though temporall Princes or Iudges did execute malefactours with their owne handes Bishoppes by vertue of their vocation can not claime the swoorde and consequently they cannot commaunde or authorize any man to take the goodes or touche the bodies of Christians or Infidels Which being a cleare conclusion it is most euident they can much lesse licence you to take the Crownes and touch the liues of Princes to whome God hath deliuered the swoorde to iudge the earth and made them seruants only to himselfe since all other soules must bee subiect to them by the tenor of his own prescription and their first erection as the Scripture witnesseth Phi. Say what you will it is religion it is no treason to defende that the Pope may lawfully depose Princes for tyrannie and heresie Theoph. It is easie for you to multiplie woordes you haue stoare of them as appeareth by your Apologie and defence of English Catholikes which consist of nothing else but the Popes power to depriue princes is
neither denying auoyding defeating nor answering What if not one of these fathers whose works you cite as thick as hops euer spake or heard of your external and real sacrificing the sonne of God afresh for the sinnes of the worlde but they vsing the wordes Sacrifice and oblation to an other purpose you force a priuate and peculiar sense of yours vpon their speaches against their meanings Phi. This is euer your wont when the woordes bee so plaine that you can not deny them to flie to the meaning Theo. In deede this hath beene not the least of Satans sleights in conueying your Religion from steppe to step point by point to keepe the speach and chaunge the sense of the learned and auncient fathers that what with the phrases which were theirs and the forgeries which were not theirs and yet caried their names hee might make the way for Antichrist to set vp his visible Monarchie of error and hypocrisie Phi. This is the way to rid your selues of all obiections Theoph. And the other is the way to drowne your selues in the deapth of all corruption but so long as wee holde their fayth and doctrine which were the lights and lampes of Christes church we can spare you their phrases here and there skattered in their writings you no whit the neerer the trueth of their beliefe Phi. You hold not their fayth in this or any other point of your Religion Theo. The greatest boasters bee not alwaies the greatest conquerours Let it therefore first appeare what they teache touching the Sacrifice of the Lords table and what wee admit and then it will soone bee seene which of vs twaine hath departed from them The fathers with one consent call not your priuate Masse that they neuer knew but the Lordes Supper a Sacrifice which wee both willingly graunt and openly teach so their text not your gloze may preuayle For there besides the sacrifice of praier and thankesgiuing which we must then offer to God for our redemption other his graces bestowed on vs in Christ his sonne besides the dedication of our soules and bodies to be a reasonable quicke and holy sacrifice to serue and please him besides the contribution and almes then giuen in the primatiue Church for the reliefe of the poore and other good vses a Sacrifice no doubt very acceptable to God I say besides these three sundry sortes of offerings incident to the Lordes table the very Supper itselfe is a publike memorial of that great dreadful sacrifice I meane of the death bloodshedding of our sauiour and a most assured application of the merites of his passion for the remission of our sinnes not to the gazers on or standers by but to those that with faith and repentance come to the due receiuing of those mysteries The visible sacrifice of bread and wyne representing the Lords death S. Austen enforceth in these words Hold most firmly neither doubt of this in any case that the only begotten sonne of God taking our flesh offered himselfe a sweet smelling sacrifice to god to whom with the father the holy ghost the Patriarks Prophets Priests vnder the old law sacrificed brute beasts to whoÌ„ now in the time of the new Testament with the same father holy spirite the holy Catholike Church throughout the world doth not cease to ofâ—er the sacrifice of breade and wine in faith charitie In those carnal Sacrifices there was a figuration of the flesh of Christ which he should offer bloud which he should shed for the remissioÌ„ of our sins In this sacrifice there is a thankesgiuing remembrance of the flesh which he hath offered and bloud which the same god hath shed for vs. With him agreeth Ireneus Christ willing his Disciples to offer vnto God the first fruites of his creatures not that god needed them but lest they should be found vnfruiteful or vnthankful toke the creature of bread and gaue thanks saying this is my body And likewise he confessed the cup which is a creature amongst vs to be his bloud teaching the new oblation of the new Testament which the Church receiuing from the Apostles offereth to God throughout the world We must theÌ„ offer to god in al things yeeld thanks to god the maker with a pure mind vnfaigned faith stedfast hope and feruent loue offering the first fruits of his Creatures and this oblation the Church only sacrificeth in purity to the creator offering to God of his creatures with thanksgiuing And this we offer to him not as if he stoode in neede of these presents but rendring him thanks for these his gifts and sanctifieng the creature This oblation of bread wyne for a thankesgiuing to God a memoriall of his sonnes death was so confessed vndoubted a trueth in the church of Christ till your Schoolemen beganne to wrest both Scriptures and Fathers to serue their quiddities that not onely the Liturgies vnder the names of Clemens Basil and Chrysostome do mention it We offer to thee our king and God this bread this cup according to thy sonnes institutioÌ„ tua ex tuis offerimus tibi domine we offer thee O Lord these thy gifts of thine own creatures Which sense Irineus vrgeth against valentine but also the very Missals vsed in your own Churches at this day do confirme the same These be the woordes of your own Offertorie Receiue holy Father God euerlasting this vndefiled host which I thine vnworthy seruant offer to thee my king and true God for my sinnes negligences and offences innumerable for al standers by yea for all faithful christians as wel liuing as departed this life that it may helpe me theÌ„ to attaine eternal life We offer to thee O Lord this cup of saluation intreating thy goodnes that it may be taken vp into thy sight as a sweet smell for the sauing of vs the whole world Receiue blessed Trinitie this oblatioÌ„ which we offer to thee in remeÌ„brance of the passion resurrection asceÌ„tion of Christ Iesus our Lord. We humbly beseech thee most merciful father through Iesus Christ thy son our Lord that thou accept blesse these gifts these preseÌ„ts these holy vndefiled sacrifices which we offer to thee first for thy Church holy and catholike c. For al true belieuers c. For al here present c. For the redemption of their soules and hope of saluation Certainely you speake these words long before you repeate Christs institution your Masse-booke doth apparently prooue that which I report if I mistake the secretes of your masse let the shame bee mine What then offer you in this place Christ or the creatures of bread wine By your own doctrine Christ is not present neither any change made til these wordes This is my body this is my blood be pronounced ergo before consecration the creatures of bread wyne keepe their
by their own words to teach more than idle signes or ONLY figures in the Lords supper because together with the name goe the vertâ—es and effects of Christes flesh bloud vnited in manner of a Sacrament to the visible signes And this their assertion neither troubleth our Doctrine nor strengthneth your error Againe these writers may very well say the Sacraments of the Gospell BE NO FIGVRES but TRVETH IT SELFE in that respect as figures bee taken for samplers of things to come Such were the figures of the law which did premonstrat the coÌ„ming of christ in flesh ceased at his coÌ„ming And so the mysteries of the Lords table were not figures of things expected but euidences of the truth there sitting in persoÌ„ the next day to be nailed to the crosse therby to fulfil abolish al figures our sacrameÌ„ts are now not signes of farther promises but memorials of his mercies alredy performed Do this saith christ not in figure of an other truth to come but in remeÌ„brance of me which am come for memorie you know stretcheth only to things past and doone and in this sense the letter may bee safely pressed and your carnall conueyance nothing relieued I find a third cause that might induce them to force the letter in this sort yet no way confirming your grosse supposall which is this When the Greeke church fell at variance for Images they which held that Christ ought not to be figured after the likenes of our bodies amongest other reasons alleadged this for one that the Lord at his Supper for a true and effectuall Image of his incarnation chose the whole substance of bread not any way like the proportion of a man lest it should occasion Idolatry The defenders of Images whose side Damascene tooke pressed with this obiection durst not flee to your annihilation of the substance of bread and adoration of the Sacrament with diuine honour which no doubt they would haue doone with great triumph had those two points of your Doctrine beene then counted catholike but yeelding and by their silence confessing that the substance of bread remayned in the supper and was not adored for so the contrarie part opposed at length for very pure neede came to this shift that the mysticall bread was not ordained to resemble and figure Christs humane nature nor so called by christ at his maundie who said not this is a figure of my body but my body nor a figure of my bloud but my bloud and when Basil and Eustathius were produced affirming the bread and wine to be figures and resemblances of Christs flesh and bloud the Patrones of Images replied that was spoken alwaies before neuer after consecration Wherefore Damascene first beganne this myncing and straining the wordes of Christ not to build on them any reall or corporall conuersion of the bread into the flesh of christ but in fauour of his artifical pictures and Images he could by no meanes abide that the mysteries should after consecration be called Images and figures of Christs bodie The next that traced this path after Damascene was Epiphanius not that auncient and learned Bishoppe of Cyprus but a pratling Deacon in the bastard Councell of Nice whose furious and fanaticall answer to the Councel of Constantinople that made this obiection declareth more tongue than witte more face than learning Christ did not say take ye eat ye the Image of my bodie Reade whiles thou wilt saith hee thou shalt neuer find that either the Lord or his Apostles or the Fathers called that vnbloudie Sacrifice which the Priest offereth AN IMAGE Thus doth he braie foorth defiance to the whole worlde without trueth without shame For Chrysostome saith If Iesus were not once dead whose image and signe is this Sacrifice This Sacrifice is an image and samplar of that Sacrifice And Gelasius Surely the IMAGE and resemblance of the bodie and bloud of Christ is celebrated in the action of the mysteries We must therefore so thinke of the Lord Christ himselfe as we professe and obserue in his IMAGE And likewise Theodoret. Ortho. The mysticall signes which are offered to god by his Priests whereof doest thou call them signes Eranist Of the body blood of the Lord. Ortho It is very well saide Conferre then the image with the paterne and thou shalt see the likenes Dionysius calleth it both an image and a figuratiue sacrifice Nazianzene excusing himselfe How should I saith he presume to offer vnto God that externall sacrifice the image of the great mysteries Clemens Offer you in your churches the image of the royall body of Christ. Macarius In the Church are offered breade and wine the images of his flesh and blood The 〈◊〉 â—aâ—hers keepe the same word the same sense Ambrose In the law was a shadow in the Gospel is an image in heauen is the trueth Before was offered a lambe or a calf now Christ is offred here in an image there in truth where he intreateth his father as an aduocate for vs. AusteÌ„ Christ gaue an image of his burnt offering to be celebrated in the church for a remembrance of his passion The rest say the like but what neede we farther refutation of so ridiculous and vnshamefast a bragge such causes such councels such poppets such Proctors The very children in the church of God knowe that the diuine mysteries by the generall definition of a Sacrament be visible signes of inuisible graces and as Augustine interpreteth the word Sacramentum id est sacrum signum a Sacrament that is a sacred signe So that vnlesse they be signes they can possibly be no sacraments neither sacraments nor signes can they be without or before coÌ„secration which this stout champion had not yet learned therfore his verdict in matters of religion except his cunning were greater may be wel refused As Damasene and your prating Epiphanius were more than 700. yeares after Christ so Theophilact and Euthymius are farre younger The first of them was Bishoppe of the Bulgarians who were conuerted to the faâ—eth 868. yeares after Christ the second your owne chronologie placeth after Gracian and Lombard 1100. yeares short of Christ. Were then these later Grecians wholy with you what gaine you by them If you woulde oppose them to Tertullian Origen Cyprian Austen Gelasius Thedorete others of purer times and sounder iudgements you could winne nothing by that bargaine the choice were soone made which to take which to leaue but in deede you do them wrong to returne them for transsubstantiators they neuer knew what it ment They say the mysteries of the Lords table be not only figures but haue the truth annexed No figures of grace differed but seales of mercy perfourmed in Christ and inioyed of vs no called figures or images of Christes flesh after consecration but bearing as well the names as the fruits and effects of the things themselues whose
doubted but the trueth was present with the signe the spirite with the sacrameÌ„t as Cyprian saith We knew there could not follow an operation if there went not a presence before Set a side your carnal imaginations of Christ couered with accidences his flesh chammed betweene your teeth and say what you will either of his inuiâ—â—ble presence by power and grace or of the spiritual and effectuall participation of his flesh and bloud offered and receiued of the faith-full by this Sacrament for the quickening and preseruing of their soules and bodies to eternall life we ioyne with you no wordes shal displease vs that any way declare the trueth or force of this mysterie Your locall compassing of Christ with the shewes and fantasticall appearances of bread wine your reall grinding of his flesh with your iawes these be the points that we deny to be Catholike these doe the fathers refute as erroneous and in these your owne fellowes be not yet resolued what to say or what to hold Phi. Be not we resolued what to hold of Christes reall being in the Sacrament and the corporall eating his flesh with our mouthes Theo. How you be secretly resolued I know not your iudgementes laid downe to the world in writing are cleane contrarie Phi. Ours Theo. Whose said I but yours Phi. Howsouer in other thinges we retaine the libertie of the Schooles to dispute pro con yet in this you shall finde vs all together Theo. Together by the eares as dogges for bones Omit your contentions what the pronowne H O C supposeth what the verbe E S T â—ignifieth when and how the bread is abolished whether by conuersion or annihilation what bodie succeedeth and whether with distinction of parts and extension of quantity or without what subiect the accidents haue to hang on whether the aire or the body of Christ what it is that soureth and putrifieth in the formes of bread and wine whether it be the same bodie that sitteth in heauen and if it be how so many contradictions may be verified of one the same thing Omit I say these with infinite other like contentions the corporall eating of christ with your mouthes are you all agreed about it Philan. We are Theo. Your two Seminaries are perhaps because they hearken rather for sedition in the realme than for Religion in the Schooles But the great Rabbins of your side are they in one opinion concerning this matter Phi. Great and small consent togither against you Theo. Against trueth they doe but in their owne fantasticall error they doe not The cheefest Pillours of your church when they come to that point which is now in handling wander in the desert of their owne deuises as men forsaking and forsaken of trueth Your Gloze is content if a man gape wide that the body of christ shall enter his mouth but he holdeth it for an heresie that the teeth should touch the same and therefore when the iawes beginne to close he dispatcheth away the body of christ in post towards heauen Certum est It is no coniecture but certaine that as soone as the formes of bread be pressed with the teeth tam cito presently the bodie of christ is caught vp into heauen Durandus is more fauourable to the teeth and will haue christ present in the mouth chamme he that list till his â—awes ake but hee is as strait laced against the stomack as the glozer is against the teeth and wil by no meanes haue the bodie of christ to passe thither building himselfe on these wordes of Hugo Christ is corporally present in visu in sapore whiles wee see or tast the sacrament As long as our bodily senses are affected so long his corporall presence is not remooued but when once the senses of our bodie beginne to faile that we neither see nor tast the formes then must wee seeke no longer for a corporall presence but retaine the spirituall because christ passeth from the mouth neither to heauen as the Gloze said nor to the stomack as the rest affirme but to the hart And better it is that he goe straight to the mind than descend to the stomacke Others is whome Bonauenture more inclineth will no way but Christ must take vp his lodging as wel in the stomacke as in the mouth maâ—y thence they suffer him not to wagge neither vpward nor downward whatsoeuer become of the accidentâ—l forms of bread and wine And lest it should be â—hought as Durand and Hugo say that the bodie of Christ goeth to the hart he repâ—ieâ—h that Quantum ad substantiam corporis certum est quod non vadit in meâ—tem sed vtrum sic vadâ—t in ventrâ—m dubium est propter diuersitatem opinionum as touching the substance of his bodie it is cleare that he passeth not to the mind but whether he so come that is in the substance of his bodie from the mouth to the belliâ— this is yet in doubt by reason of the diueâ—sitie of opinions in so great varietie what to hold is haâ—d to iudge Yet he liketh not that Aut mus in ventrem traijceret aut in cloacam descenderet the bodie of Christ shuld goe into the bellie of a mouse or be cast foorth by the draught because the eares of well disposed persons would abhorre that sidiceremus haeretici infideles deriderent nos irriderent and if we should defend that the heretiks and infidels would iest at vs and laugh vs to scorne This notwithstanding Alexander de Hales in spiâ—e of al heretikes and infidels â—entereth on it If a dog or an hogge saith he should eat the whole consecrated host I see no cause but the Lords bodie should goe therewithall into the bellie of that dog or hog Thomas of Aquine sharpely reprouâ—th them which thinke otherwise Some haue saide that as soone as the Sacrament is taken of a mouse or a dog streight way the bodie and bloud of Christ cease to be there but this is a derogation to the trueth of this Sacrament In â—auour of Thomas Petrus de Palude Ioannes de Burgo Nicolaus de Oâ—bellis with the whole sect of Thomists neither few in number nor mean in credite with the church of Rome defend the same yea where the master of the sentences seemed to shrinke from this loathsome position It may wel be said that the bodie of Christ is not receined of brute beasts the facultie of diuines in Paris with full consent gaue him this check here the master is refused And for feare lest the field should be wonne without him in steppeth Antonius Archbishoppe of Florence and recompenseth his late comming with his lewd writing First hee telleth how Petrus de Palude dressed the Glâ—ze for saying that Christ is caught vp to heauen as soone as the formes of the sacrament are pressed with our teeth Quod dicere est haereticum which
failing or changing Phi. That we beleeue Theo. How theÌ„ can the manhood of Christ be in many places at one time Or how can it in any place or time be without shape quantitie circumscription and such like proprieties of mans nature Phi. In heauen it hath them Theo. If they can not be changed or altered the manhoode of Christ must haue them not in heauen only but in earth also in euery place where the substance of his bodie is Philand Saue in the Sacrament Theophi If that be the same bodie which was on the Crosse it must haue the same natural proprieties of a body which that had Phi. It hath as many as it may Theo. It must haue as many as it should Phi. Which be they Theo. Proportion of shape distinction of parts extension of quantitie circumscription of place and the very same substance of fleshe which hee tooke of his mother Marie Phi. You name these things which you see bee not in the Sacrament Theophi I name those which the manhood of Christ must haue wheresoeuer it be Phi. Must haue What necessitie is in that Theo. As much as the denying of your faith contradicting of his trueth For these proprieties the body had that hung on the Crosse and without these hee can be no true man Philan. In heauen we tell you he hath them Theophil And in the Sacrament wee tell you â—ee hath them not Ergo the manhoode of Christ is not in the Sacrament Phi. Cannot Christ be where he list without those consequents Theo. His bodie can not Phi. Doe not you nowe deny him to be omnipotent Theophi Doe not you now alleadge his power to frustrate both his will and your faith Philand You hold christ cannot if he would Theo. We say christ would not though he could And since his will is euident by his worde as our common faith auoucheth you doe wickedly to crosse his will with his power and make his might attendant on your follies Dei velle posse est non posse nolle The power of God which we must stand on is his wil and that which he will not that he cannot You must not therefore imagine what you list and then ground vpon the power and strength of GOD it is error and impietie whatsoeuer is repugnant to his trueth and to father your falsehoodes on his almightie power is irreuerent and insolent blasphemie Phi. You doe not so much as confesse that he can doe it and that causeth vs to suspect you doubt of Gods omnipotencie Theo. Because we suffer you not to vnload your absurdities and impieties on Gods power at your pleasures Philand First graunt hee can doe it and of that wee will commune afterward Theo. What shall I graunt Phi. That Christ according to his corporall presence may be in many places at one time if it please him Theo. What then shal become of S. Austen that said Christ could not concerning his corporall presence be at one time in the sunne in the moone and on the crosse And of S. Cyril affirming that Christ could not be conuersant with his Apostles after he once ascended If hee could not bee in three places at one time how could hee bee in moe If not in earth when he was in heauen how both in heauen and earth as you your selues conceiued and woulde haue vs confesse And yet the thing which we withstand is far more impossible than this For the manhoode of Christ by the tenour of the christian faith hath and must haue after his ascension humane shape partes length breadth both extended circumscribed and otherwise to thinke is the wicked and cursed opinion of Eutyches condemned long since by the church of God for a meere impietie You to auoide the burdeÌ„ of that sentence confes these properties are must be permaneÌ„t in the body which our sauiour tooke of the virgin wherein he now sitteth at the right hand of God his father marie the selfesame bodie you defend to bee in the sacrament without shape partes length or breadth either extended or circumscribed which is wee say simplie impossible For shaped not shaped extended not extended circumscribed not circumscribed be plaine contradictions those of one thing at one time are not possible Phi. Is any thing impossible to God Theo. Doth not the Apostle say Negare seipsum non potest God cannot deny himselfe Impossibile est Deum mentiri it is impossible that God should lie S. Austen well noteth Dicitur omnipotens faciendo quod vult non patiendo quod non vult vnde propterea quaedam non potest quia est omnipotens God is said to be omnipotent in doing that he will not in suffering that hee will not And therefore can he not doe some things because he is omnipotent And S. Ambrose likewise Quid ergo ei impossibile Non quod virtuti arduum sed quod naturae eius contrarium What then is impossible to God not that which passeth his power but that which is contrarie to his nature Impossibile istud non infirmitatis sed virtutis maiestatis quia veritas non recipit mendacium nec Dei virtus leuitatis errorem This impossibilitie proceedeth not of infirmitie but of might and maiestie because the trueth of God admitteth not a lie nor the power of God any note of inconstancie So that all changes against his nature or falshoods against his trueth bee vtterly impossible to GOD and that because hee is almighty Phi. That we know Theo. Then this also you must needs know that contradictions be impossible for of theÌ„ if one part be true the other is euer false and that God should be false it is not possible You must therfore either with Eutyches affirme the manhood of christ to be changed from his former shape partes quantitie and circumscription and consequently from his former substance or els against religion and learning reason and sense defend contradictions that is trueth and falshoode to bee possible both at one time which is nothing but to make God a liar in his workes as you be in your wordes for maintaining that error Phi. At diuers times and in 〈…〉 contradictions may bee true Theo. There can be but one part 〈…〉 other at the same instant is ineuitablie false and as for your 〈…〉 the proprieties of christes bodie which wee speake of bee absâ—lute and inherent necessities no relations nor comparisons you may keepe them for some better â—art in this assertion they will doe you no seruice Phi. What if we say the bodie of christ in the Sacrament hath the same proportion of shape extension of partes and circumscription of place which it hath in heauen how can you refell vs Theo. Neuer take the paiâ—es to incur new contradictions a shorter answer will serue you for all and that is say you beleeue you cannot tell what For otherwise men
depart because he that is the author of the gift is also the witnesse of the trueth For the inuisible priest turned the visible creatures into the substance of his bodie and bloud with his word and secret power saying take eate this is my body and repeating the sanctification he saide take drinke this is my bloud Therefore as at the Lordes becke commaunding the high heauens the deepe waters the wide earth were made on the suddaine of nothing so with like force in the spiritual Sacraments when his power commandeth the effect followeth These words be plaine enough if either truth or authority can content you The. Either shal content me if I may be sure of either Phi. Here you find both Theo. Who wrate this sermon which you cite Phi. Eusebius Emissenus Theo. When liued he Phi. Why doe you aske Theo. Reason we knowe his age before we receiue his testimonie Phi. His age I can tell you is as ancient as his doctrine Theo. I thinke both of one antiquity For neither the maÌ„ nor the matter were knowen in the church of Christ for 900. yeares and vpward Phi. How you be deceiued S. Hierom maketh mention of Eusebius Emissenus that wrate short homilies vpon the Gospels somewhat before his time Theo. And that made your fellowes put his name to certaine latine homilies that were none of his and to beare men in hand he was a frenchman but when he liued they can not tell Phi. Yes S. Hierom saieth hee died vnder Constantius more than twelue hundred yeares ago Theo. Eusebius Emissenus then wrate and then died but who wrate these latine homilies that were extant in his name Phi. Himselfe Theo. What countriman was he Phi. I thinke a Frenchman Theo. So Canisius both your collegue and the compiler of your huge chaos or catechisme sayeth marie when he liued that hee could not tell and therefore of his owne authoritie placeth him 200. yeres after S. Hierom with a perchaunce least if we should aske him for his proofe he might be taken with a lie His wordes are Eusebius Emissenus Gallus cuius habentur homiliae hoc fortè tempore claruit Eusebius Emissenus of Fraunce whose homilies wee haue extant perhaps liued at this time that is 500. yeres after Christ. Phi. And so it may be The. But this is not he that S. Hierom speaketh of For he died vnder CoÌ„stantâ—us whose raign and life ended 343. after Christ. Phi. The elder hee was the better his credit for this question Theo. But the worst is that Eusebius Emissenus was a Bishop in Syria wrate in greeke and therefore to assigne him latine homilies and to suppose him to bee a frenchman was a very grosse corruption and such as children will deride Phi. Might there not be an other of that name Theo. Ye as in that place but in Fraunce there could bee none Phi. Why not Theo. Because Emesenus doth signifie Bishop of Emesa in Syria where this Eusebius liued and as S. Hierom writeth was buried at Antioch the chiefe Metropolis of Syria Phi. But this is Eusebius Emissenus which Gratian alleadgeth Theo. It is not the first word by fiue hundred that Gratian hath altered For Eusebius Emesenus Sainct Hieroms certificate is verie good for Eusebius Emissenus the first record that we finde is in Gratian where by the verie stile periods casures members and agnominations you may perceiue him to be a latinist as Canisius addetâ— a Frenchman Now in what age he liued in what place he preached we require some proofe before we can or will admit these things to be his which you haue forged in his name Emissenus must be a deriuatiue from some place shew any such place in Europe and then you saie somewhat for the likelyhood though not enough for the certainty of this writer Philand What if we can not Theophil Then hee that hath but halfe an eye may soone discerne 〈◊〉 treacherie Your Monks Friers seeking to colour their fained holines late sprong faith with the reuereâ—d titles of aâ—cient fathers prâ—fered the names of Austen Ambrose HieroÌ„ Cyprian Isidore others before diuerse of their own dâ—â— fe◠〈…〉 finding in S. Hierom Eusebius Emesenus to be an old writer gaue him a new liuerie with the rest and ascribed certaine latin homilies such as they had vnto him whom themselues or Gratian that first lighted on this old new writer corruptly called Eusebius Emissenus And because the forgerie did hardly hang together the right Eusebius beeing a Gretian and of great antiquity Canisius the generall Atturnie for your religion hath deuised twoe more of that name one a french-man that perchance he saith florished in the fift Centurie and an other that wrate after Gregory the great and expounded the ghospels but when either of them liued or where they taught neither he nor you can bring vs any proofe besides your bare and vaine supposals Phi. Wil you not trust the inscription of the worke it selfe Theo. That were the way to let euery frier and forgerer create new fathers at his pleasure It is as easie for them that copie out other mens workes to make false as true inscriptions and so haue your Monkes plaied with euery father that was ancient as the most partiall of your owne side doe confesse and in this is too apparent For how many mens names thinke you did this homilie beare which you alleadge not yet two hundreth yeres ago Phi. What can I tel Theo. Then I can Looke in Walden and in one Chapter you shal find this very sermon beare three mens names Phi. Is that possible Theo. The lesse possible the thing the more palpable your forging In the 67 chapter his aduersarie alleaged the woordes which you bring out of Isidore in his sermon beginning with Magnitudo caelestium That Walden doth not much impugne but very often so calleth him and yet at length remembring himselfe he or some man for him yeeldeth to the decrees and calleth that writer Eusebius Emisenus by Gratians authority marie with a single s where now a double is gotten both into the worde and into Gratian and yet in the 68 chapter forgetting what he him selfe or others for him had done he citeth an other part of the same sermon vnder Anselmus name Ratificat eandem coÌ„parationem in sermone sâ—pe dicto qui incipit Magnitudo caelestiuÌ„ Anselmus dicens This comparison Anselmus doth ratifie in his sermon often spoken of which beginneth Magnitudo caelestium though afterward in the same chapter he returne againe to his former staggering and call the writer of your wordes Isidore or rather Eusebius Phi. Let him be Isidore or Eusebius we care not whether Theo. Since the Sermon is not his whose name it beareth we may not suffer you to choppe names as you list neither neede we so much as regard the words before wee know the author lest we reuerence lewd and late
dipped his hands in his brothers bloode nor take the wages of Balaam to curse and reuile the people of God nor perish in the contradiction of Corah for resisting both God and the Magistrate but rather that wee may be sanctified and saued by the might of his word and store of his mercy laid vp in Christ his sonne for all that beleeue him and call vpon him Phi. God send vs such part as our fathers had Theo. You be so displeased with God for punishing the sinnes of your fathers with blindnes and error in these later ages that now you will none of his light nor grace though he offer it freely to saue your soules but if you will needes perish your owne bloode be on your owne heades yet haue vs excused if we thinke our sinnes heauie enough though wee adde not thereto the neglect of his worde and contempt of his trueth as you doe In the knowledge of God and reuerence of his iudgements there is a path way to repentaunce and hope of mercy in the proude dislike of his seueritie towards others and sâ—ubberne refusall of his goodnes towards our selues there is nothing but an heaping of extreme vengeaunce which shall consume the wicked and impenitent resisters of his word and spirit Phi. We be not of that number Theo. Were you not you would be more carefull to search and willing to embrace the trueth of Christ once vnderstoode with all readines and lowlines of minde knowing that God resisteth the proud and giueth grace to the humble and not with an high-looking and self-pleasing perswasion that all is yours neglect your duty to God and man Phi. We obserue both Theo. You obserue neither Subiection to your lawfull Prince you haue forsaken and not onely fledde the Realme and incited others to doe the like but the Christian alleageance which the Prince requireth of her subiects you impugne with shifts and slaunders in fauoâ—r of him who wickedly and iniuriously taketh vpon him to be the supreme Moderator of earthly kingdomes chiefe disposer of princes Crowns and so fast are you lincked in confederacie with him that in open view of all men you will allow no Prince to beare the sword longer than shall like him but proclaime rebellions of subiects against their Soueraignes to be iust honorable warres if he authorize them by his Censures And where to cloake your wicked and enormous attempts you boldely surmised that you did whatsoeuer you did for that Religion which was ancient Catholike we haue presently taken you so tardie short of your reckoning that for sixe of the greatest and cheefest points now in question betwixt the Church of England and the Church of Rome and reformed in this Realme by publike authoritie you cannot bring vs so much as one ancient euident testimony that your faith and Doctrine was euer taught or receiued in the primatiue church of christ and yet you please your selues in your owm conceits and compasse the earth to get prosilites fit for such teachers whom you may traine vp in error and vse as instruments to catch vnstable soules and fier vnquiet heades that you by them may disturbe realmes and fishe for Princes thrones and liues in troubled waters Phi. All this is as false as God is true Theo. God himselfe shall skant be trueth if you may be the iudges except hee take your parts But facing and craking laid aside you must referre the iudgement of your doings and sayings to others and not to your selues Phi. To Catholikes I am content The. They must be then of your instructing that is such as will trust neither fathers nor Scriptures against your Canons otherwise in that you haue saide they shall find no great cause to like your impugning the Princes power right to establish Lawes within her owne lande without the Popes leaue and to hold her Crowne against his censures and as litle shall they find to cal you or count you Catholikes Phi. Men of your own pitch will soone assent to any thing Theo. Let them be but indifferent and weigh what you haue brought Phi. More we can bring when we see our times The It skilleth not how much but how sound that is which you can bring Phi. Of that hereafter and yet in the meane time there be many other thinges besides these that you haue handled that must be discussed before we can be pronounced no Catholikes And as in these you seeeme with wresting and wrenching to haue some aduantage so in those we could forthwith confound you The. Euen as you haue doone in these Phi. A great deale more readily if I had time to stay the triall of them but this holy tide I must spend in other matters of more importance Theo. What In spredding newes that the king of Spain doth stay but for the next summer Phi. We meddle not with forraine affaires Theo. A number of you be better seene in policie than in diuinitie you were borne belike to be rulers though it be but of Rebels as Sanders was that thought it a praise to take the field in person against his Prince Phi. My trauell is not to that end Theo. You leaue that for others and trauel to sound the harts of your adherents whether they be in number welth and zeale likely and readie to giue assistance if any should inuade Phi. What vnchristian coniectures you haue of vs Theo. None but such as your owne deedes and wordes occasion Phi What cause haue we giuen you to speake this of vs Theo. What greater cause can you giue than openly to auouch as you haue done in your Defence of Catholiks as you call them yâ— rebellions against such Princes as the Pope deposeth are godly iust honourable wars Phi. If hee may depose them they are Theo. You haue in print affirmed both and sought to proue them with all your might and therefore what shal we thinke your secret whispering and reconâ—ling to the Church of Rome is but a craftie bayte of Malcontentes to make rebels Phi. The parties themselues can witnesse we neuer mention any such thing in our absolution To them we appeale for record Theo. For my part I thinke you doe not It were too grosse conspiracie treason to take vowes and oths of subiects against their Prince by name and therefore if you should take that open course you were worthie to ride to Tyburne not only for traytors but also for disards But when you reconcile them you take assurance of them by vow oth or other adiuration that they shall embrace the Catholike faith and hold Communion vnitie with the Church of Rome for euer after Phi. Why should we not Theo. Then when it pleaseth my Lord the Pope to depriue the Prince and to excommunicate al that assist or agnise her for a lawfull magistrate what must your reconciled sort doe Is it not against their oth faith giuen to you at their restitution to
Rom. 15. How kinges must serue the Lord and Christ his sonne Psalm 2. Aug. contra literas Petilia lib. 2. cap. 92. Idem contra Cresconium lib. ◠cap. 51. The church shall suck the brestes of kinges The milke of princes is not temporall wealth August epi. 50. Idem contra 2. Gaudenij epist. lib. 2. cap. 11. Idem contrae Epist. Parmen lib. 1. cap. 7. The Prince charged to punish false and corrupt religion * Read on the place contra epist. Parmen lib. 1. cap. 7. Compell them to come in spoken to the magistrates Luke 14. Aug. contra 2. Gaudent Epist. lib. 2. cap. 17. Mat. 21. 1. Corinth 10. 2. Tim. 2. Mat. 24. Tit. 1. Mat. 20. 2. Pet. 5. Luke 14. August Ep. 50. Idem contra 2. Gaundentij epist. lib. 2. cap. 17. Idem Epist. 48. Idem Epist. 50. Idem Epist. 48. The Princes charge as the scriptures do expresse it Al these things must bee done in euery christiā cōmō wealth and who shall do them but the Prince August contra Cresconium lib. 3. cap. 51. Christian Princes from the beginning haue delt in causes ecclesiasticall Socrat. in prooemio lib. 5. Alciatus incodicem rubric de sacrosanct ecclesijs tomo 3. pag. 198. Constantines example Euseb. hist. lib. 10. cap. 5. Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 2. cap. 28. Socrat. lib. 10. cap. 34. Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 1. cap. 37. Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 13. Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 22. Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 23. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 28. Euseb. de vita Constan. lib. 4. cap. 42. Athanas. Apol. 2. cap. Quum multas Athanasius and his side appeale from the councel to the prince Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 34. The Councell of Tyrus commanded to come before the Prince giue account of their doings What Constantine did in Athanasius his cause Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27. The restoring of Arius Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 25. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27. Constantine threatneth Athanasius for not receiuing Arius Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 37. 31. Ibidem lib. 1. cap. 38. The Prince cōmaundeth the Patriarke to receiue Arius to the cōmunion Codi lib. 1. tit 1.6.2.3 Tit. 5.7.9.11 Nouel constitut 57.37 42.123 Nouel constit 123.131 Nouel constit 5. 131.3.67.79 Nouel constit 123.133 Nouel const 6. 123. Nouel constitutione 123. Nouel constit 123. The prince receaueth information cōmaundeth correction Nouell constitutione 6. The doctrine discipline of the church must be the Princes cheefest care The Bishops Patriarks of euerie diocesse cōmaūded and threatned Nouel Constitut 5. Nouel Constitut 133. The Prince soueraigne ouer all men and that in things cōcerning God which must be preserued from corruption by the prelates but most of all by the Prince The things were then in the Princes charge which the Pope now tieth to spiritual courtes Careli praefa in leges Franciae The preface of Charles to his lawes directing commissioners to reforme the Church in his name and by vertue of his authoritie Legū Franciae li. 1. Cap. 1.2.3 Cap. 23. Chap. 49.25 Cap. 11. Cap. 57.45 Cap. 13. Cap. 6. Cap. 20. Cap. 41. Cap. 15. Cap. 160. Chap. 76. Cap. 76. Ibidem Ibidem Ibidem Cap. 66. Cap. 132. Cap. 147. Cap. 73. Cap. 155. Cap. 75. Cap. 139. Cap. 158. Cap. 74. Cap. 78. Cap. 103. Cap. 129. Cap. 128. Cap. 130. Cap. 131. Cap. 141. Cap. 136. Cap. 86. Cap. 67. Cap. 79. Cap. 81. Cap. 110. Cap. 71. Cap. 62. Cap. 163. Cap. 116. The Prince visiteth and cōmaundeth for ecclesiastical rules and discipline Cap. 104. The Prince promiseth by the aduise of his faithful determinatiō for such ecclesiasticall matters as were not expressed in his chapters Charles by his lawes rectified al ecclesiasticall things and causes If any wanted he promised at his leisure to supply that defect His sonne his nephew followed his steps and executed his lawes Legion franciae lib. 2. Cap. 1. Cap. 2. Cap. 3. The cheefe of this ministerie consisteth in the princes person to whom the Bishops are coadiutors Cap. 12. Cap. 11. The Prince willeth all without exception to obserue his commaundements in all things as well ecclesiastical as temporal Cap. 26. Bishops to be reformed by the Kings visitours Cap. 27. The kings decrees touching all things and causes to be obserued of all men Chap. 28. The first part of the Princes commission concerned religion and ecclesiastical order Legū Franciae Cap. 12. Cap. 26. Cap. 28. Cap. 11. What lacketh this of gouerning al men in al matters both ecclesiasticall and ciuil Supreme is not superiour to Christ but not subiect to the Pope The superlatiue includeth not God because God with man is not cōpared 1. Pet. 2. Tit. 3. Rom. 1. Cap. 13. Cap. The saints on earth are subiect to the Princes sword the graces of God are not The Church cōfessed princes to be subiect to none but to God Tertul. ad Scapulam Idem in Apologetico Contra Parmenian lib. 3. Ad Populū antioch homil 2. Superiour to al is subiect to none Ad popu Ant. homil 2. Nouel const 133. De obitu Theodosij Greg. epist. li. 3. ca. 100. cap. 103. The word supreme was added to set Princes at libertie from the Pope and that is it that so much offēdeth the Iesuites They must proue Princes to be subiect to the Pope we need not proue them to be free The Bishops of Rome for 300. yeres endured heathē Princes Martin Polon in Iulio Liberio Platina in Bonifacio I. Martin Polon in Syluer Vigil Martino I. Caus. 2. quaest 7. Cap. Nossi The popes submission to the Emperour Ibidem Cap. Perrus A lewd elusiō of Gratian. The Prince superior to the Pope euē in causes ecclesiastical The quarel between Donatus Cecilian Lib. 10. Cap. 5. Lib. 1. contra Parmenianum epist. 162.166 alibi This quarell was forthings causes spiritual Constantine superior to Meltiades Euseb. lib. 10. Cap. 5. The Pope with others were authorized by the Prince to heare this cause August epist. 162. Epist. 166. Constantine himself would not at first fit iudge in the cause for want of skill August epist. 166. Cellatio 3. dici cum Donatistis The Prince receiued an appeale from the Pope Euseb. li. 10. Cap. 5. August epist. 166. And gaue thē other Iudges after the Pope August epist. 166. The Prince sate himselfe in iudgement both after the Pope and after the Councel Idem epist. 162. Idem contra Crescon lib. 3 Cap. 17. August epist. 166. The Prince made a penal law to confirme his finall decision Ibidem The Prince in these foure facts superior to the Pope The Prince willeth Flauianus to keepe his Church after foure Popes had repelled him for no Bishop Theodor. lib. 5. cap. 23. Sozom. lib. 8. cap. 28. Arcadius denied the Pope a Councel punished the Bishops that kept his communion Niceph. lib. 13. cap. 30. Ex libro pontif in vita Bonifacij Epist. Bonifacij ad Honorium Augustum Rescript Honor. ad Bonifac. tom
Pope woâ—se than before Anno 13. Richardi 2. King Richard made it death to bring any processe from Rome to impugne the lawes of his realme for benefices and patronages 25. Edwardi 3. To warre against the King is treasoÌ„ in subiects though it be for religion Is not this giuing coÌ„fort to the Queenes enimies The perswaders be traitours as well as the doers And yet your adherents bare armes against King Iohn and the Germane Princes for meere priuate and earthly quarels Edward the 3. neuer ment to be deposed by the Pope why therefore should not warre to depose him be treasoÌ„ against him It was wisedome in king Edward not to name the Pope and yet the quarell includeth the Pope The King and the commons in opeÌ„ parliament ioyne to defend the lawes and liberties of the realm against the Pope by name 28. Edwardi 3. The consociation of King Edward against the Pope 16. Richardi 2. The people offer to defeÌ„d their Prince against the Pope The Crowne of England not subiect to the Bishop of Rome The commoÌ„s will be with their king in all cases atteÌ„pted against him his crown and regalitie could they then suffer him to be deposed The defence cap. 5. The oth of the Kings of England at their coronation Kings sweare to defend the faith assist the Church Leges Edwardi Regis cap. 17. The Prince sworne to gouern the church of her Kingdome The defence cap. 5. In vita S. Thomae Thomas of Canterburie put others in mind of their promises forgot his own oth The defence cap. 5. Zonar tomo 3. Cuspinian in Anast. in Zimisce The Patriach once or twise required of him that should be crowned a confession of his faith Euthemius Anastasius Zonar in Anast. Dicoro The Prince banished the patriarch Anastasius not deposed though he brake the promise made at his coronatioÌ„ Niceph. and Michaell Zonar in Michael Rangab The patriarks fact had the peoples consent He that crowneth is not superiour to him that is crowned Polieuctus Zimisces Zonar in Ioh. Zimisce Zonar in Niceph Phoca Zonar in Zimisce The Patriarch would not suffer a murderer that aspired to the crowne to enter the Church before some recompence were made Zimisces killed the King and defiled the Queene Isaac Commenus Zonar in Mich. Stratio A fit presideÌ„t for the Ies. Zonar in Isaac Commeno An other Hildebrand The defence cap. 5. In what caâ—es subiects may breake with their Princes Baptisme maketh not princes depriueable by the Pope Reuolt froÌ„ the faith is punishable in Princes but not by man Baptism bindeth no maÌ„ to corporall or temporall losses of land or life The defence cap. 5. Bishops haue nothing to doe with the Crownes of Princes Inunction maketh not the Prince subiect to the Priest Annointing is a seruice not a superioritie to the prince The Bishop is to declare gods will and not his owne vnto Princes at their coronation The Iesuites would haue Princes hold their crownes by Indenture Deut. 17. Edwardi Legeâ— cap. 17. The breach of couenants is no depriuation The defence cap. 5. The people may not breake with their Princes though Princes breake with God If two sweare to doâ— any thing and one breake his â—th shall the other be excuâ—ed before God if he follow that example It is against the Law of God nature for subiects to punish their Princes Rom. 13. And strangers haue lesse to do with their Crownes Depoâ—ition of late yeres attempted but not agnised to this present day The defence cap. 5. Extra commu de maioritat obedient ¶ vnaÌ„ sanctâ—â— in addiâ— Petri Bern. § respondeo diâ—â— 2. Cor. 22. 2. Cor. 4. If Iesuits may not rebell their saluatioÌ„ is vnsufficieÌ„t in their iudgements Reâ—â—lat 13. 2. Cor. 1â— The Iesuites impatient to see theÌ„selues disappointed The defence cap. 5. The example of a Prince most dangerous God hath prouided patience for his saints not violence to coÌ„quere tyrants Mat. 10. Mat. 10. Luke 21. Rom. 13. The defence cap. 5. The Iesuites would fain be heathens The Pope encourageth subiects to kill their princes Exod. 20. Rom. 3. Rom. 13. Cardinal Comos letter for the murdering of her Maiestie That resolution was to kill the Queene as PARRY himselfe confessed A passing good spirite that leadeth subiects to murder their Princes Holinesse fit for your holy father The holy ghost abhorreth the murder of Princes 1. Sam. 26. Rom. 13. 1. Peter 2. The Iesuits allow that Princes shuld be murdered WilliaÌ„ Chreictons letter to sir FRANCIS WALSINGHAM PARRYES confession vnder his own handwriting to the prince The murdering of Prinâ—es allowed by their defence of Catholikes The defence cap. 5. He that may fight may kill War against the Prince murthering of the prince are ineuitable consequents The Prince directly impugned by the Iesuits arms The Pharisies did but ceÌ„sure Christ when they put him to death Acts. 7. As though the church could be holie that contradicteth the holy Ghost Vnfit weapoÌ„â— for Christian men but fit for Iesuites heathens Rom. 12. The defence cap. 5. Our bond to Christ more than to our Prince We may yeeld God his due with out rebelling against the Prince marry that is by suffering the Princes pleasure which the Iesuites cannot brook The Iesuites in no wise can away with this submissioÌ„ to the swordes of Princes therfore they imagine Princes may be deposed by that coulor also resisted The defence cap. 5. How man and wife may depart for Christ. Theod. L. Man de haereâ— Cap. â—in Exâ—â— de haereâ— Husbands Parents and Masters loose not their right by Gods Law though they be heretikes The Iesuits would punish Princes in the same sort that princes punish their subiects Heresie dissolueth not matrimonie 1. Cor. 7. Mat. 19. The subiects more bound to the Prince than the seruant is to his master The Prince may discharge the seruant but no man caÌ„ discharge the subiect 1. Pet. 2. The Apostles neither did nor could set seruants free from their masters for any cause No law giueth the sonne leaue to dishonor or disherite his father The defence cap. 5. If Princes may not be deposed ergo ciuill warre to displace them is a wicked wilful rebellioÌ„ against God his ordinance The defence cap. 4. The Protestants opinioÌ„ practise for deposition of Princes in case of false Religion Tertul. de Virg. velandis The Iesuits abuse the names of protestants for the colouâ—ing of their conspiracies The defence cap. 5. In Dan. cap. 6. vers 22.25 The doctrine of Father CALVINE Caluine wrested by the Iesuites Caluine saith Princes haue no power to commaund against God but he doth not say that subiects may displace them with armes Not a word of vsing weapon or violence in all that place of Caluine Dan. 6. Caluin in 6. Dan. vers 22. He defended his Innocencie with reuerent words as euerie subiect may not with violent weapons The defence cap. 4. The doctrine of
greater part of those which professe christianitie or some speciall places or persons must for euer be directed vnto all truth and preserued from all error this can not be concluded by these wordes Phi. To teach all truth and preserue in truth and from errour the holy Ghost is promised and perfourmed onely to the church and the chiefe gouernour and generall councels thereof Theo. In deede you take vpon you like Gouernors to appoint what the son of God shal meane who must haue the holy Ghost as if the matter were in your hands not in his Phi. Do we take vpon vs to limit the holy Ghost Theo. What else do you when of your owne heades you restraine the words of our Sauior as you liâ—t Phi. As we list Theo. Our Sauiours words are When that spirit of truth commeth he shal teach you al truth This say you is promised perfourmed only to the church the chiefe Gouernor the Pope and generall Councels thereof As if You in S. Iohns Gospel did signifie none but the Pope the chiefe Gouernor and such Bishops as the Pope will admit to his conferences which you call the generall councels of the church and what is this else but to diuide the holy Ghost as you thinke good Phi. The rulers of the church must needs haue the holy Ghost Theo. Meane you all or some Phi. The most part of them Theo. How proue you that to be Christes meaning that the most part of them which can procure themselues miters or rather catch vp Bishoprickes shall be sure of the holy Ghost in such measure that they shall neuer mistake the saith nor any parte thereof Phi. If they should erre the church should erre Theo. You run from bad to worse Your own law wil shew you the falsenes peruersnes of your Rhemish obseruations and expositions Quaero de qua Ecclesia intelligas quod hic dicitur quod non possit errare Side ipso Papa certum est quod Papa errare potest Respondeo Ipsa congregatio fidelium hic dicitur Ecclesia talis Ecclesia non potest non esse I demaund of what church it is ment when it is saide as here that the church can not erre If of the Pope himselfe it is certaine that the Pope may erre I answere the congregatioÌ„ of the faithfull is here called the church and that church can not chose but continue The spirit of truth is not promised to the Pope nor to his councels but to the faithfull whether they be seuered or assembled and they shall not erre that is they shall not perish in errour as the wicked do but shall either be recouered from their errour or find mercy for their ignorance Phi. May the whole church erre Theo. If wee shoulde graunt you that the whole church can not erre to wit that all the faithfull on the earth at one time can not bee deceiued in any necessarie point of faith but that Christ for his promise sake will preserue truth amongest them what is this to the Pope or his Cardinals or Conuenticles to whom you conuey the holy Ghost by inheritance Phi. Neuer delude vs with ifs but tell vs whether you think the whole church may erre or no. Theo. In matters of faith wee thinke it can not Phi. If the church can not er the Gouernors of the church can not The. Leaue trifling and fall to reasoning The whole church can not erre ergo what Phi. Ergo the Pastors Preachers can not erre Theo. Conclude you all or none Phi. To say no Pastour can erre were apparent madnesse Theo. And the next which is all Pastours can not erre doeth you no pleasure For the Bishop of Rome may erre so may the rest of his mitred and twiforked creatures yet many good Pastours and Preachers keepe fast to the faith Howbeit this conclusion doth not follow vpon my confession The whole church I graunt can not er that is all and euery the faithful can not er therefore all Pastours can not er this is no kind of consequeÌ„t For some of the faithful may be directed vnto truth they no pastors nor preachers many preachers may be preserued from errour they no Bishops many Bishops may be kept in the faith and they not assembled a great number of those that be assembled may bee rightly affected and yet not the most part of them and the greater side may be wel disposed and yet not the Bishop of Rome whom you make to be the moderator and guider of all councels And therefore your argument is very childish The whole church can not erre ergo generall councels can not erre and specially the Pope which later part your best friendes haue not onely refuted as false but also detested for incredible and shamefull flatterie Phi. So say you Theo. So say they Alfonsus that wrote bitterly against Luther when he came to this point dealt plainely in these wordes Non credo aliquem esse adeo impudentem Papae assentatorem vt ei tribuere hoâ— velit vt nec errare possit I can not thinke any man to be so impudent a flatterer of the Pope as to attribute this vnto him that he can not er Phi. Alfonsus hath no such words Theo. You say truth Alfonsus now hath not but Alfonsus had those wordes in his former editions And this commendeth your cunning that you can curtaile the writinges of your fellowes leaue out what you list when you new print them Phi. It was his owne correcting in his seconde edition Theo. Whether it was his doing or yours we care not the wordes remaine in the olde Printes to the manifest condemnation of your follie and flatterie in this behalfe And in his new copies though he qualifie his termes hee holdeth flatly the same opinion Omnis homo errare potest in fide etiam sipapa sit Euerie man may erre in faith euen the Pope himselfe And so you heard your owne gloze before affirme It is certaine the Pope may erre The same is confessed by the best of your side both canonistes and diuines Panormitane saith Concilium potest condemnare Papam de haeresi vt in cap. Si Papa Distinct. 40. vbi dicitur quod Papa potest esse haereticus de haeresi iudicari A councell may condemne the Pope of heresie as appeareth in the 40. Distinct. cap. Si Papa Where it is saide that the Pope may be an heretik iudged of heresie Lyra saith Multi summi Pontifices inuenti sunt apostatasse à side Many Popes haue proued apostataes Augustinus de Ancona Papa est deponendus pro haeresi ad CoÌ„ciliuÌ„ spectat PapaÌ„ in haeresi deprehensum condeÌ„nare vel deponere The Pope may be deposed for heresie A couÌ„cel may condemn or depose the Pope deprehended in heresie Antonius Archbishop of Florence Pro haeresi Papa congruè ipso facto