Kinges and Princes And that that holy Citye hath in the meane time continued sure not for a smale time but for two and forty monethes or a thousand two hundred and sixty dayes But we leaue the acccount of those dayes to sharper witted men we vrge onely the matter it selfe Therefore to speake plainely we say that so long as that great Michaell did appeare by little and little killing that Dragon with the swoorde of his worde which hee hath agayne committed to his faythfull seruauntes or with the spirite of his mouth that so long the Catholique Churche that is to saye euery number though neuer so smal of such as helde fast both the personne and also the office of the true Christe laye hidde in the filthinesses of the Romish Babylon whilest the wicked one with his angels vsurping the seate of the ministery and the harlot that sate vpon the seuen hilles did make the world drunke with her dreggs But they say that this true Churche ought always to be visible To this if I shall aunswere that the true Church indeed hath alwaies beene visible and so shall be so farre forth as she consisteth of true visible members and that it is not a counterfayte thing In what sense the true Church is called visible and also that it is visible so farre forth as it hath outward and euident marks yet not in such sorte visible as though they that embrace true religion should always so agree that euery man might pointe out with this finger both who they are and where they are if I saye I shall aunswere this I shall indeede speake as the matter is and that which I haue a little before by reasons and examples declared But I make not this place my refuge for I saye that if wee will fetch recordes euen from the Apostles themselues who haue as it were with their finger poynted oute this wicked one and all his false Church that then we shall find that there scarce hath beene any age but that therein so soone as this Antichriste began to shew his head the Lord hath alwayes stirred vp some who did set themselues against his tyrannie If they denie this thing let them laye a wager but withall let them giue pledges or sureties for the perfourmaunce I doubt not but we shall shew foorth euen to al men that the thing is so vnlesse they had rather be willingly blynd yea and that by good and sufficient witnesses and by cleare euident and manifest testimonies drawen out of their very owne courtes and records But the aduersaries cannot so be brideled but that they will reply That the true laying on of hands remayneth vvholy with vs. demanding at the last what laying on of hāds we are able to alleadge that they haue receiued by whō in our time our churches haue bene established For so I remember Spensa a Doctor of the Sorbonistes did cry out against vs by whome afterward there was published concerning these matters a voulome verye grosse and full of slaunders Hovv farre forth the laying on of handes hath beene counted necessari to a lavvfull calling First I answere that which he himselfe elswhere hath noted out of Hierom against the * So called of one Lucifer vvho helde that the soul vvas of the substance of the flesh Luciferians which place also Gratian hath put into his decrees to wit that the laying on of handes after baptisme perteineth rather to the honor of priesthood as they call it than to bind anye by necessitye of lawe to obserue it After this sort therefore I saye did Hierome iudge whome they call vppon amongste their Sayntes But they will replye forsooth that he disputeth of laying on of haneds in confirmation and not of laying on of handes in ordination as they are woonte to speake Whiche that I maye graunte to bee so although Spensa thoughte otherwise what shall this replication or exception helpe them for they themselues do not onely number confirmation among the Sacraments but also when it pleaseth them they account it more excellent than Baptisme it selfe But let vs omit this thing They confesse vnlesse they will dissent from Bernard in his Epistle 77. who notwithstanding standeth bothe vppon the worde of God and also vppon the authoritie of Austen and Ambrose that those whiche are of the yeeres of discretion are blotted out of the Churche for contempt of Baptisme and not for the want of it And what shall let vs that wee maye not muche more speake the same thing of the laying on of handes vsed in giuing orders vnlesse peraduenture they shall saye that that is more to bee required vnto the holy Ministerye than Baptisme vnto saluation But howe can these excellent seruauntes of God seeme to haue contemned the laying on of handes which in our time by a verye Heauenlye inspiration haue deliuered the Churche from the Tyrannye of Antichriste when as they had none of whome they could lawfully euen by the warrant of the olde Canons themselues aske or receiue the same for I haue before shewed yet affirme this thing that there can not be found one amongst the whole clergie of Rome which is able by the pure and auncient canons to defend their ordination to be lawfull What say I It appeareth that euen in the most pure Churche also the laying on of handes was not counted so necessary for who I besech you laid his hands vpon Philip that of a Deacon he shold be made an Euangelist Act. 8.4 who laid handes vpon them in that firste dispersing of them selues abroad at Hierusalem the very Apostles also being ignorant therof preached the Gospell with so great fruit in Samaria but these men Peter and Iohn were afterwarde sent who should lay their hands vpon them Act. 8.14 Yea for sooth vppon those who beléeued and were baptised for as for thē which first had preached the Gospell vnto thē there is no mentiō at all made of them But let vs put the case that this place were to be vnderstood of these men also The Apostles therefore ratified that which the other as occasion serued had done euen before examination and before ordinary election not meaning to make the laying on of hands to be absolutely necessary And if these men be the successors of the Apostles as they will be called and accounted why haue not they them selues also that by the example of the Apostles made haste to approoue at the least the zeale of godly men Or why did they not helpe the attempt of that Archbishop of Colen rather thā they should haue betrayed him to that Romish Antichrist for a reward also of which wicked déed Gropperus had the Cardinals hat bestowed vpon him a couer in deed worthy for suche a cup. For sooth they will say because ye are heretiques Therfore the question must be of the doctrine and not of the laying on of handes and then as I hope we shall get the victory But they
A DISCOURSE OF the true and visible Markes of the Catholique Churche VVritten by M. THEOD BEZA Vezelius GOD IS MY HELPER GOD IS MY HELPER Psal 7.11 AT LONDON ¶ Printed by Robert Walde-graue dwelling without Temple-bar in the Strond neere vnto Sommerset-house ⧠TO THE RIGHT WORshipfull Sir George Carey knight knight Marshall of her Maiesties bousholde c. T. VV. his poore welwiller wisheth aboundaunce of all good thinges in this life and eternall blessednesse in the life to come through Christe HOVVE glorious and excellent a thing the church it selfe is may appeare Right VVorshipfull by many meanes And amongst the rest euen by this that all both good and bad do challenge and claime whether justly or vnjustly I minde not much novve to dispute not onely the name and tyâ—le thereof but the verie possession of it also I hope I shall not neede much to busie my selfe in the proofe of this point Because as it manifestly appeareth by sundry examples of former times and particularly by the people of the Iewes in the dayes of Ieremiah the prophet who cried out The Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord this is the Temple of the Lorde as is to be seene in the seuenth chapter of his booke So haue vve a most euident and playne testimony of the same in this declining and doting olde age of the world For whereabout are those large disputations which at this daye are handled betvveene the catholiques as they would be called and the true professours of Christs Gospel moste occupied I pray you but speciallye about this question and other controuersies concerning the same The thing rather that in my mind is more to be stoode vpon is this namely to see what shoulde be the cause why that notwithstanding that same greedye desire that the greatest number haue to retaine with them both the name of the Church and the Churche it selfe yet so fewe haue it hold it fast All men haue in them notwithstanding the defacing of God his image in them through sinne by some small sparkes of reason and iudgement which yet remayne in them vndefaced A certaine thirsting after Blessednes and the hope of a better life And this is the more inkindled in mennes hearts and heads when it pleaseth God to vouchsafe them in some measure of his mercy some light and knowledge of his holy truth by which they see that with out the Church there can bee no saluation And that causeth them to presse on forward to vvish to be of that number that hath so gracious a Priuilege graunted vnto the same And yet all this notwithstanding it is a vvonder to see how the greatest part of the vvorlde is deceiued vvith a bare shadow and shevve of the same For that I may speake nothing of the Infidelles in their idolatries nor of the Turkes cleauing fast to their Mahomet Nor of the Ievves openly dispiting Christe the Sauiour of the vvorlde and therefore all of them of necessitye out of the Church and consequently void of saluation also because they hold not the head which is Christ To let all these passe I say and to come to them vvhich in outvvard shevv make profession of Christianitie and true religion hovv many of them are there that are violently carried avvaye vvith as grosse and palpable Idolatrie as the heathen VVhat infinite multitudes perish thorough ignorance and want of the sound knovvledge of God in Christe hovv many are drovvned to the hazarding of their ovvne soules vvith horrible erroures and heresies And what a number are there in the vvorlde beside that shaking handes as it vvere vvith Atheists ye the vvorst people of al do lye vveltring in the pleasures and profits of this life making no account at all either of God in heauen or of his Church here in earth And vvhat would the Lord teach vs by al this verely first that vve must haue better eyes to discern his congregation by then the light of our ovvn reason for if euen then vvheÌ„ vvee haue his vvorde vvee can yet hardly discry it partly because it is discerned spiritually and partly because by the hard dealings of the enimies it is sundry times brought to so lovv an eb that it seemeth to be shut vp in one mans person And therfore do say in the confession of our Christian faith that vve do beleue that there is a holy catholique Churche that then vve shall neuer be able to seperate it from the Synagogue of Satan by our ovvne vnderstanding and vvit vvhich consideration is yet further profitable euen for the confutation of that immagination and conceit which our aduersaries haue and hold concerning mans freevvil for if vve cannot by our ovvn coÌ„prehension perceiue eyther the place in vvhich or the personnes amongst vvhome the Church it selfe is but that vvee must haue from aboue for that purpose greate enlightning both of knovvledge and fayth much lesse shall vve bee able to comprehend those vvonderfull treasures of most sounde comfortable and profitable doctrine that the Lord hath freely bestovved vppon his sayde Church Of vvhich the Apostle saith that the eye hath not seene them the eare hath not hearde them neither can mans heart comprehend them 2. Cor. 2.9 VVherefore the case standeth not vvith vs as heretofore wee haue beene borne in hand And as yet to this day is openly defended amongst Papistes that man in his meere naturall gifts hath vvill to desire and povver to perfourm suche thinges as are good for if it bee God that worketh in vs both the vvill and the deed that according to his ovvn good pleasure Philip. 2.13 And that vve are not sufficient of our selues as of our selues to thinke a good thought 2. Cor. 3.5 It must needes follovve that vve can not claime any such thing vnto our selues vvithout robbing God of his glorie without lifting vp of our selues aboue measure and trueth and vvithout impeaching the authoritie and credite of the Scriptures which in many places affirmeth and namely Genes 6.5 that all the immaginations of the thoughtes of mans heart are only euil euery day But to let this passe and to come to the thinges we haue in hande VVe are hereby in the second place instructed that vvee muste haue more sure and infallible markes to knovve God his Churche by than those vvhich the Papistes giue vs to wit vniuersalitie Antiquitie and consent for if beside that great number of Idolatours and misbeleeuers mentioned before vvho also can alleadge for themselues great antiquity agree and as he that is not vvilfully blinde may easilye see there are and that euen in the lappe and bosome of the Church many hypocrites and heretiques also vvhich yet shall not be saued we may then safely conclude that the forenamed things are not only not the assured notes but no notes at all rather of the true Church of God both because they are common to many things besides the Churche yea euen to euill thinges and also because that though that
shall be truely gathered together in his name And to speake in fewe wordes where that true seede is sowen there is the Lords field and there that haruest groweth which shall neuer be burned But againe because it falleth out partly thorough the weaknesse of mans wit euen in the moste excellent men partly through the wickenesse or negligence of the pastors that scarce at any time since the time of the Apostles the doctrine of Christ hath beene so preached in the Church but that some blemish hath priuely crept in which thing appeareth to bee done euen by the Epistles of the Apostles and that whilest they also were liuing Finally because the Lord hath apointed not onely that the worde shoulde be taught but also that it shoulde not be taught of euery man And for this cause hath appointed certaine lawes touching this order I must here again declare two things to wit how farre it shoulde be necessarie that that onely marke of the true Church that is to say the preaching of Gods worde shoulde be pure and how much we should giue to the ordination and succession of the Pastors themselues Therefore How farre it is necessary that the doctrine of fayth should be pure in the Church that the Church eyther particular or general may be a true church as touching that former point I put downe three thinges One is that although there be nothing set out vnto vs in the holy Scriptures which is not most profitable and verie necessary as it were vnto saluation yet there are certaine chiefe points and as it were grounds of our religion which are to be discerned from the rest The second point is that there haue beene some matters which in times past haue beene rudimentes of the Catholique Churche and may in other times also be rudiments of some particular churches yet for all that those points cease not to belong to the true Churche The third is that the religion and marke of the Churche either vniuersall or particular is not to be measured by some thing that this or that Pastor teacheth by worde or writing neither by that that some sheepe by them selues haue thought this Or by the disputations of some whether they be many or few but by that doctrine which is commonly receiued in the Churches so that it be agreable to the word of God That all the points of christian religion are not of the foundation thereof Now because these questions are called into controuersie go to let vs confirme them by sure reasons examples As touching the firste the thing it selfe sheweth that there may be variaunce touching some things yet the soundation of christian religion remaine safe And againe some things cannot be taken away but that the whole building be vtterly ouerthrown He that denieth Christ to haue come in the fleshe Iohn 4.3 is not of God but is the spirit of Antichrist Therefore the companies of the * They denied Christ to haue come in the flesh Dochitae of the * The Marcionistes of whome he speaketh here did hold that Christ was not true man Marcionits and of such like be not the Church of Christe whereby it is prooued that the point touching both the natures of Christe is an article of Christian religion belonging to the foundation Againe the Churche of Ierusalem wherin who was better learned than Peter knew not the calling of the vncircumcised and yet what true Churche was there then in the worlde if the Church of Ierusalem were not it Therefore the point concerning the calling of the vncircumcised is not of it selfe of the points of Christian religion which concerne the foundation Therfore there is some difference betweene those thinges which are set forth vnto vs in the scriptures to be beléeued The second also may be prooued by a more euident example For who doubteth That there are some rudiments of particular Churches VVhich thing also in times past fall out in the Catholique church but that if euer there were any where a true and almost onely and wholy Catholique Churche that was Christes owne houshold being conuersaunt and that according to the fleshe with those his twelue disciples Who likewise is ignoraunt that the point of the resurrection the foundation wherof is the resurrection of Christ himselfe is of so great waight that the Apostle doth rightly pronounce that that beeing abolished the whole fruit of the Gospell shoulde be abolished but that very congregation could scarce beleue that Christ was yet risen And Thomas gaue not credite to his own very fellow disciples yea the disciples would not haue beléeued euen their owne verye eyes if the Lorde had not sayd Luke 24.39 VVe may not determine of the falshood or truth of any church by the doubting of either many or few A spirit hath not flesh and bones And that third thing is confirmed by the examples of the Churches of Achaia and Galatia which doubtlesse the Apostle would not haue called the churches of Christ and therefore true churches if hee had therfore thought that the church of Corinth had denied that article of the resurrection of the flesh the churches of Galatia had reiected the benefite of their liberty purchased by Christe because some in Corinth yea perhaps some of the pastors themselues did doubt of the poynte of the resurrection and the most part of the Galathians called backe agayn the vse of circumcision and other ceremonies seeing that yet notwithstanding Gal. 5.2 the same Paul sayth If ye be circumcised Christ doth profite you nothing and seeing that he affirmeth that those which vrged circumcision not of ignoraÌ„ce but of stubbornnes they were remoued alway vnto another gospel Gal. 1.6 Phil. 3.2 therefore he openly calleth theÌ„ Apostatates or fallers away and compareth them to Dogs that is to say to vncleane beastes But it is an other thing to erre through igâ—â—â—aunce than obstinately to resist the truth as wiful fellowes are wont Heresie which is without the Church if it be of some point of the religion that toucheth the foundation is an other thing than being deceiued or an error which requireth and suffereth it selfe to be taught To be shorte the Eclipse of the Sunne is an other thing than the absence of the same and the euening is an other thing than the darkenesse of the night yea the night it selfe which the day succeedeth is an other thing than the darknesse were Gen. 1.2 when they couered the depth These things then being put downe That some errours may creepe into the Catholique church yea and that in some point of faith which concerneth the foundation it shal be easie to iudge that euery error doth not take away the name of the true church and with al that to be most false which the aduersaries say to wit that the Catholique Church caÌ„not erre and yet that euery error doth not abolish the name of the Catholike Church For as touching this latter point if
some particular Church may erre euen in some chiefe head or article of Christian religion and yet it ceasseth not therfore to be a true Church wherefore shal not a man say the same of al particular Churches not considered one by one but vniuersally for this is the Catholique Church Truely it is not probable that there liued then any men when Christ rose againe better or more perfectly instructed in true faith then those twelue Disciples And yet we see this whole congregation for a time as I euen now sayd so to haue doubted of the resurrection of Christ that for that cause as Luke writeth Christ remayned with them fortie dayes after the resurrection Act 1.3 that he might fully assure them of his resurrection Wherefore this thing we conclude that the chiefe points of our religion ought of necessitie to remaine sound in the Catholique Church that it maye be called Catholique But there may some times fall in some cloud specially through the negligence of the Pastors which may some times darken one while this an other while that article which neuer the lesse when the holy Ghost appeareth straight wayes vanisheth away Therefore Catholique is not as the vnlearned imagine alwaies and with out exception the same that right or sound is seeing that euen some vniuersall error may continue for a time And the same thing may and ought muche more to be spoken of the particular congregations of this vniuersallitie And if these things be true euen in the very grounds of our religion how much more may wee thinke the same to bee true as often as errours creepe in by which the very foundations of religion are not ouerthrown And this is the stuble or chaffe which sometimes as S. Paul sayth 1. Cor. 3.12 are builded vpon the foundations of the Apostles which at the length shall vanish away when the day of the Lord appeareth But this day sheweth it selfe sometimes sooner somtimes later So I had almost sayde all the Byshops of Africa thought with Cyprian that baptisme administred by heretikes was of no force Which thing although it were false might neuertheles so long as the sum of fayth remayneth sound and vnhurt be wrongfully taught and beléeued But this errour continued not long There is a like consideration to be had of many traditions which for that cause began at the length falsely to be called and to be deemed Apostolicall because that being once confirmed by continuall vse they were supposed to haue come euen from the Apostles them selues which traditions also by reason therof the day of the Lorde which hath againe in our times shined forth cannot now abolish with out very great contentions Be it therefore farre from any to thinke that for such maner of blemishes some congregations should be thought not to belong to the bodye of the Catholique Churche That blemishes at the first somtimes tollerable cease to be blemishes and grow to bee cankers although godly and diligent Pastors shoulde giue very great diligence that these spottes also shoulde be wiped away with the sponge of Gods word But this thing first of al must here be marked that these blemishes and as it were byles or swellings do some times so farre increase that they growe to a canker and that they pull away the very members from the body which thing the most shamefull examples both of auncient times and also of our times declare to haue fallen out especially by the fault of the pastors As for example exorcisme or cuniuring one sort of it being proper to them that were possessed with ill spirites and an other common to all that were growen in yeares and came from Paganisme to Christianitie brought in also by the negligence of pastors into the baptisme of Infants that were borne of Christians was at the beginning onely a blemish and yet not being looked into of the old Byshoppes at the length increased so farre that in the papacie it was retained as necessarie and so became a wilworship a matter now at no hand indifferent And in some Churches although lightened with the Gospell it is retayned as not vnprofitable with great shame truely to the pastors of so great importance is it in season to preuent euen the smalest errors The ceremonie of anoynting with oyle in baptisme which was ministred to those that were as it were to fight against the Deuil and the fleshe was in the beginning chaffe but this chaffe how farre in processe of time it grewe we see Chrisme in baptisme prefered before water the element of the sacrament when the Crisme also began to be reuerenced which thing notwithstanding did not fal out in the very water a true and an essential signe of baptisme So it is manifest that the signe of the crosse was at the beginning an open profession of christianitie the abuse wherof at the last brought to passe that the very crosse was set vp in the place of Christ crucified neither is there any idolatry in all the worlde more detestable So the remembrances of martyrs and the funerals of the more famous Byshops were celebrated both with Orations in the praise of thē and with incredible concourse of people from whence by and by after sprang vp inuocations of the dead at their sepulchers and in processe of time the worshippinges of reliques also The paineting of walles brought into the Christians temples about foure hundred yeares after the deathe of Christe and that without any worship thereof was in deed accounted haie But howe farre this blemish hath growne we see insomuch that the second of the ten commandements was vnder that colour openly by the Papists blotted out and which thing cannot bespoken without the incredible shame of some that second commandement is also at this day numbred by certein men which should not so deale amongest the ceremoniall commandementes Such was in the beginning the lenten fast and some choise or difference of meates without any opinion of worship added therto Which things we nowe see so established that sundrye and those no small persons but such as wil seeme to be most Catholike do most obstinately defende that in the doing of them consisteth in some respect the forgiuenesse of sinnes yea the worthinesse of merites or power to deserue What I beséech you coulde seeme at the first to haue been more indifferent then for the celebration of the supper to haue a table of stone or of wood But if the Grecians in the celebration of the saide supper had neuer vsed their * That is their Altars dedicated to Deuils 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the Latines their Alters but had beene content with their cōmon tables which was in vse in the Apostles times likely it is that the controuersie touching that detestable idolatry of the masse by which we see the whole worlde at this day to be set on fire could neuer haue sprung vp Now to what end tend these things to wit that first in descrying the marks
part which the same Apostle speaketh to wit That the Church is builded vppon the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostles And that which he witnesseth of the holy scriptures 2. Timot. 3.16.17 Moreouer that shall be false to which the same Apostle saith That the Churche is the piller of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Vnlesse all truth beeing ingrauen in that piller should be manifest Other some more shamelesse suppose there is left vnto these men whom they call the successours of the Apostles I know not what excellent thing and that they doe affirme so assuredly that they hold they can not be deceiued in that matter whose opinion I suppose néedeth not at this time amongst men of sound iudgement any confutation But in the ouerthrow of these two latter and especially of the last point I perceiue that all these men VVhat we ought to think of the vnwritten word are altogether of one opinion against vs. For they vrge I knowe not what vnwritten worde which they call Apostolicall traditions And verely I do not vnwillinglie graunt vnto them that all thinges were not seuerally put downe in wryting according to the circumstances of times place and persons which were obserued either by the Apostles or by their consent in the very forme and order of the seruice of God But who wil graunt that we must thinke the same of the decrees of the verie doctrine it selfe Finally when the aduersaries are bidden to bring forth what these pointes be then that lying spirit bewraieth himselfe because those thinges which they will haue deliuered from hand to hand could neither by word nor writinges haue bene deliuered by the Apostles but they should dissent from themselues But euen al the fathers of sound iudgement haue iudged farre other wise of the most excellent and moste sound perfection of the holy scriptures with whose testimonies being a thousand times alleadged I thought it not good now to fill these leaues There remayneth the question to be handled The interpretation of the vvritten vvord is not else vvhere to be fet then from the vvorde it selfe to wit by comparing of the places one vvith another and out of the analogie or proportion of the articles of our fayth touching the interpretation of the scripture Which truely is so tossed to and fro by these men that they cannot eschew the sinne of blasphemie There be I confesse some places of the scripture partly through the ignorance of tongs partly also throgh other faults of our owne so dark vnto vs euen vntil this day that as yet euen the most learned interpreters and such as be of best cōscience cannot thoroughly agrée what should be the proper natural meaning thereof There be some thinges also in the holy scriptures so profoundly spoken that euery one maye not lawfullye procéede so farre To be short there be some things also written in such terms that as Augustin saith it shold appeare the holy ghost would whet our diligence in the serching and meditating of them And vnlesse the necessarie points of doctrine and Christian religion were so playnely and clearly to be short so familiarly declared in the writings of the Prophetes and Apostles that they may be the holy ghost being presēt amongst them whereby God lightneth all his sayntes manifestly vnderstoode in the Church to what end shoulde the Lorde haue sent his hearers to the scriptures Yea that more is to what ende haue both the Prophets and Christe himselfe also and the Apostles spoken if they would not haue these thinges to be vnderstood which all ought to know I will speake something more boldly which yet I hope I can proue VVe cannot by naturall vnderstanding knovv vvhat the pointes of Christian religion are but by the writinges of the Prophets and Apostles That we may consent vnto the points of Christian religion as vnto true groundes and muche more that wee may applye them vnto our selues it behooueth surely that wee shoulde haue our eares elsewhere opened a fleshly bea rt giuen vs to be short that we should elsewhere be taught tban of flesh and blood because the church is the congregation of them that must be taught of God to whome the arme of the Lord is reuealed Esai 53.1 and that men may vnderstand what the Prophetes and Apostles haue briefly thought and taught concerning euery article of our religion they haue neede not onely of a wit in some measure sharpened but also of the knowledge of tongues and of careful and diligent reading For it is one manner of thing to vnderstande what this or that man sayth then so to vnderstand the things which thou doest perceiue that thou also approue of them Comprehension knowledge and full perswasiō must be distinguished in the holy scriptures of which that to wit comprehension is naturall the other is in deede spiritual but also commō to many reprobates The third is proper to the children of God and not onely that thou vnderstand what the thing is but also wherefore it is and comprehension is another thing than knowledge euen in prophane matters and agayne in matter of diuinity this knowledge is another thing than full perswasion therefore comprehension belongeth vnto all men that are endued with some iudgement and vnto knowledge there is required also an outwarde lightning of Gods spirite by reason of the blindenes of mans iudgment which gift notwithstanding is common as well to many euil as to many good men But ful perswasion doth seperate the chosen children of God from the castawayes and is the proper riches of the Saintes Therefore we require In what points we doe at this day dissent when the question is demaunded touching the interpretation of Gods word the exposition of the worde of God not onely as profitable but also as necessary yet not for the same cause as these mē thinke neither yet wil wee fet it from the place frō whome these men suppose we wil take it for they think that that worde is so darkly deliuered that as thogh it were some darke thing it should neede light fetcht elsewhere then from it selfe and when we demand of them from whence at the length this light should be fet thē they lay vnto vs the vizard or bare shewe of the Catholique Church vnder which name somtimes they lay before the ignorant these or those of the Fathers sometimes the fragments of particular or general counsels to bee short they lay before them very often long custom for an argument that cannot bee refused to which thinges if a man doe not forthwith consent he is now layde open to the slaughter of the outragious people no knowledge of his cause beeing had before as thogh he were guilty of some haynous crime committed against God or man wheras in times past he was condemned to bee burned vnder some certaine colour of law And in deede this is now their zeale But we that we may in one word declare all thinges which belong to this