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religion_n church_n england_n reform_a 4,212 5 9.5265 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A47280 The sober conformists answer to a rigid conformists reasons why in this juncture no alteration should be made in the government of the Church of Scotland. Ker, William. 1689 (1689) Wing K346; ESTC R8036 26,163 32

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to_o papist_n but_o as_o instrumental_a in_o advance_v popish_a design_n partly_o by_o the_o ignorance_n profanity_n and_o arminianism_n aboundon_v under_o it_o dispose_v and_o prepare_v the_o nation_n for_o popery_n and_o partly_o by_o its_o severity_n and_o cruelty_n towards_o dissent_v protestant_n to_o the_o manifest_a weaken_n of_o the_o protestant_a interest_n and_o even_o envy_n itself_o can_v but_o acknowledge_v the_o presbyterian_a government_n have_v be_v abundant_o both_o severe_a and_o successful_a against_o popery_n and_o nothing_o blunt_v and_o slacken_v in_o its_o zeal_n and_o watchfulness_n against_o papist_n amit_v all_o its_o severity_n against_o episcopal_o whereas_o the_o penal_a law_n against_o papist_n be_v bring_v to_o such_o a_o des_fw-mi vetude_n by_o we_o that_o the_o most_o threaten_a danger_n from_o popery_n can_v not_o awaken_v we_o to_o the_o execution_n of_o they_o lest_o we_o shall_v have_v divert_v from_o persecute_v presbyterian_o by_o a_o rigorous_a execution_n of_o the_o law_n make_v in_o our_o favour_n against_o they_o which_o do_v so_o entire_o take_v up_o the_o government_n that_o not_o only_o both_o profanity_n and_o popery_n have_v be_v connive_v at_o but_o encourage_v in_o so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v assist_v to_o we_o in_o oppose_v and_o oppress_v presbyterian_o so_o that_o it_o will_v never_o be_v believe_v that_o presbyterian_a government_n have_v any_o pernicious_a influence_n upon_o the_o protestant_a religion_n but_o rather_o that_o it_o have_v a_o powerful_a influence_n for_o secure_v it_o against_o popery_n far_o more_o vigorous_a and_o zealous_a yea_o and_o effectual_a and_o successful_a then_o ever_o the_o episcopal_a have_v at_o least_o in_o scotland_n and_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o presbyterian_a interest_n be_v every_o way_n at_o present_a more_o direct_o opposite_a to_o the_o popish_a interest_n than_o the_o episcopal_n be_v which_o i_o be_o afraid_a shall_v yet_o further_o appear_v by_o the_o 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who_o particular_a disadvantage_n by_o their_o lose_v their_o place_n be_v the_o public_a advantage_n of_o the_o nation_n and_o final_o you_o infer_v that_o the_o regular_a clergy_n will_v be_v turn_v out_o which_o will_v reduce_v the_o church_n to_o such_o amaze_a hardship_n that_o the_o gospel_n shall_v not_o he_o preach_v in_o three_o part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n there_o not_o be_v a_o hundred_o qualify_v presbyterian_o in_o scotland_n sir_n it_o shall_v be_v your_o desire_n and_o i_o both_o that_o all_o the_o insufficient_a scandalous_a and_o erroneous_a among_o the_o clergy_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o their_o place_n be_v vacant_a till_o able_a man_n be_v provide_v rather_o then_o fill_v with_o such_o man_n who_o do_v far_o more_o obstruct_v then_o promove_v the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n without_o the_o hope_n of_o be_v better_o supply_v and_o alace_o i_o be_o afraid_a that_o two_o part_n of_o three_o of_o our_o clergy_n may_v be_v too_o just_o reduce_v to_o one_o or_o other_o of_o these_o three_o class_n so_o that_o by_o my_o best_a information_n the_o presbyterian_a party_n if_o you_o join_v their_o minister_n preacher_n and_o young_a man_n ready_a for_o the_o ministry_n together_o with_o such_o also_o as_o have_v divert_v themselves_o to_o other_o employment_n because_o of_o the_o discouragement_n of_o the_o time_n and_o be_v willing_a and_o ready_a to_o serve_v the_o church_n if_o there_o be_v encouragement_n for_o the_o ministry_n they_o have_v more_o qualify_v man_n among_o they_o then_o there_o be_v sufficient_a sober_a and_o orthodox_n man_n among_o our_o clergy_n so_o that_o they_o can_v within_o less_o than_o a_o year_n furnish_v the_o one_o half_a of_o the_o congregation_n in_o scotland_n and_o when_o from_o about_o a_o hundred_o and_o some_o more_o they_o have_v in_o a_o year_n and_o a_o half_n space_n accreasced_a and_o amount_v to_o so_o many_o without_o the_o help_n of_o university_n we_o may_v easy_o calculate_v how_o short_a a_o time_n will_v increase_v they_o to_o the_o complete_a number_n but_o i_o be_o hopeful_a that_o they_o will_v admit_v any_o learned_a sober_a and_o orthodox_n person_n among_o we_o upon_o very_o easy_a term_n our_o acknowledgeing_a presbyterian_a government_n to_o be_v lawful_a our_o guilt_n of_o separation_n from_o they_o and_o of_o take_v the_o test_n and_o i_o know_v none_o of_o we_o that_o will_v choose_v rather_o to_o be_v turn_v out_o by_o refuse_v then_o keep_v in_o their_o place_n upon_o accept_v such_o favourable_a term_n your_o 4._o reason_n be_v that_o if_o presbytery_n be_v not_o thus_o establish_v in_o its_o integrity_n but_o all_o that_o alteration_n turn_v to_o a_o non-episcopacy_a and_o the_o present_a presbyter_n continue_v in_o their_o office_n then_o our_o deplorable_a schism_n and_o division_n shall_v continue_v without_o a_o remedy_n or_o else_o the_o magistrate_n will_v take_v upon_o he_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o we_o shall_v have_v downright_a erastianism_n sir_n the_o foolishness_n of_o this_o argument_n be_v so_o obvious_a that_o i_o think_v i_o may_v spare_v my_o pain_n in_o show_v it_o unto_o you_o one_o will_v think_v it_o the_o voice_n of_o a_o presbyterian_a prove_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o entire_a alteration_n rather_o than_o of_o a_o episcopal_a plead_v no_o alteration_n at_o all_o presbyterian_o will_v grant_v all_o you_o say_v and_o turn_v the_o mouth_n of_o this_o cannon_n direct_o against_o yourself_o by_o argue_v thus_o if_o episcopacy_n be_v contain_v than_o our_o deplotable_a schism_n and_o division_n shall_v be_v remediless_a also_o we_o shall_v still_o have_v downright_a erastianism_n and_o how_o can_v you_o evade_v the_o force_n of_o this_o argument_n of_o your_o own_o i_o see_v not_o for_o it_o be_v evident_a by_o experience_n that_o we_o may_v despair_v of_o ever_o gain_v the_o presbyterian_o to_o a_o compliance_n with_o we_o see_v that_o so_o many_o year_n violent_a persecution_n have_v rather_o alienate_v they_o from_o we_o beyond_o all_o hope_n of_o either_o reconciliation_n or_o accommodation_n and_o it_o be_v as_o undeniable_a that_o there_o be_v not_o so_o gross_a erastianism_n in_o the_o world_n as_o be_v establish_v by_o law_n and_o complicate_v and_o tui_v with_o the_o episcopal_a government_n in_o scotland_n yea_o they_o will_v further_o baffle_v you_o by_o reason_v with_o you_o thus_o if_o presbytery_n be_v establish_v in_o its_o integrity_n our_o deplorable_a division_n will_v easy_o be_v heal_v and_o we_o shall_v be_v altogether_o quite_o of_o erastianism_n and_o you_o can_v shelter_v yourself_o from_o this_o more_o than_o the_o former_a argument_n for_o it_o be_v more_o than_o probable_a that_o few_o of_o we_o will_v refuse_v to_o comply_v with_o presbytery_n when_o once_o establish_v by_o law_n and_o it_o be_v too_o much_o to_o be_v suspect_v that_o the_o present_a bitterness_n of_o many_o of_o our_o clergy_n again_o st_o presbyterian_o proceed_v from_o their_o consciousness_n to_o themselves_o of_o their_o insufficiency_n profanity_n or_o heterodoxy_n and_o perhaps_o also_o cruelty_n which_o make_v they_o despair_v of_o admission_n into_o the_o brotherhood_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o there_o be_v no_o principle_n contrary_a to_o erastianism_n more_o than_o the_o presbyterian_a for_o they_o allow_v not_o any_o ecclesiastic_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o be_v lodge_v in_o any_o single_a person_n though_o ecclesiastic_a much_o less_o civil_a and_o yet_o they_o do_v neither_o exeem_v church_n man_n from_o their_o subjection_n to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n as_o his_o subject_n nor_o the_o church_n from_o the_o magistrate_n care_v as_o her_o nurse_n father_n their_o principle_n in_o this_o point_n be_v very_o rational_a for_o though_o they_o deny_v minister_n to_o be_v as_o direct_o subject_v to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o their_o ecclesiastic_a apacity_n as_o minister_n as_o in_o their_o civil_a capacity_n 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church_n and_o confirm_v their_o obligation_n on_o his_o subject_n though_o not_o a_o power_n coactive_a to_o force_v the_o church_n to_o follow_v his_o dictate_v in_o thing_n ecclesiastic_a and_o in_o a_o word_n they_o grant_v he_o all_o power_n even_o in_o ecclesiastic_n that_o be_v cumulative_a to_o the_o church_n advantage_n though_o they_o deny_v he_o to_o have_v any_o privative_a power_n to_o the_o church_n prejudice_n whereas_o episcopacy_n in_o scotland_n have_v no_o other_o basis_n but_o gross_a erastianism_n so_o that_o you_o see_v how_o much_o you_o may_v be_v foil_v with_o your_o own_o weapon_n and_o you_o may_v expect_v a_o challenge_n to_o express_v the_o ingenuity_n of_o your_o fear_n of_o continue_a division_n and_o schism_n and_o of_o downright_a erastianism_n by_o quit_v the_o episcopal_a way_n wherein_o you_o act_n the_o schismatic_a in_o receid_v from_o the_o stand_a law_n of_o the_o church_n in_o compliance_n with_o new_a civil_a law_n and_o approve_v erastianism_n in_o adhere_v to_o the_o test_n your_o five_o reason_n be_v that_o the_o establishment_n of_o presbytery_n will_v have_v almost_o pernicious_a influence_n on_o the_o protestant_n religion_n in_o this_o island_n if_o ever_o popery_n set_v up_o its_o head_n etc._n etc._n sir_n i_o confess_v it_o be_v more_o proper_a for_o you_o to_o show_v the_o inconveniency_n that_o will_v follow_v if_o presbytry_n be_v establish_v then_o if_o not_o yet_o i_o suspect_v you_o be_v as_o unhappy_a in_o this_o as_o in_o the_o former_a argument_n the_o great_a st_o advantage_n that_o i_o find_v in_o your_o reason_n be_v that_o you_o touch_v upon_o some_o thing_n concern_v which_o it_o be_v unseasonable_a and_o dangerous_a for_o presbyterian_o full_o to_o express_v themselves_o but_o alas_o you_o do_v here_o but_o touch_n on_o that_o which_o be_v the_o very_a sore_a and_o weak_a side_n of_o episcopacy_n for_o you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o general_a complaint_n of_o and_o prejudices_fw-la at_o our_o government_n as_o not_o only_o a_o shelter_n and_o covert_a