Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	england_n	reform_a	4,212	5	9.5265	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02198	An aunsvver to George Giffords pretended defence of read prayers and devised leitourgies with the vngodly cauils and vvicked sclanders comprised in the first part of his book entituled, A short treatise against the Donatists of England. By Iohn Greenwood Christs poore afflicted prisoner in the Fleete at London, for the trueth of the gospel.	Greenwood, John, d. 1593.; Johnson, Francis, 1562-1618.	1603 (1603)	STC 12340; ESTC S103420	74,892	78

number yet it is expressed in some other verse that yt is so But now admit that you could proue that the psalmes were read insteade of or for invocatiō which you shall neuer be able to do it doth not followe that mēs writinges shoud be brought into the assemblies and read for praier The 6. of Nōbers I haue answerd before Frō the 92. Psalme you reason thus If the psalmes other formes of prayer in the Scrìpturés were read or said by rote the verie forme of wordes for praying The reading instead of or for praying Here you durst not set your assumption it was so false which should be thus But the Psalmes other formes of prayer were read for praying c. This I shewed you was verie vntrue they were neuer cōmaunded so to be vsed nor never so vsed My proof was this they are giuē by the holy Ghost for other vses as singing reading etc. ād not comaunded anie where so to be vsed so that you do but cauill not hauing one proof for all your shameles assertiōs Now where I demaunded what this made for your liturgies ād reading mēs writinges for praying except you would make your owne writinges of equall authoritie with the Scriptures You āswere That if I denie the cōsequence it was lawfull to use the Psalmes therfore mens writings thē I wil shut out all praiers euē the prayer of the Pastor See your carnall handling shuffling and cōfounding Gods ordinances Doth yt followe that because mēs writinges may not be brought into the publique assēblies or there read for praying therfore the prayers vttered by the liuely voice of the pastor should herebie be excluded this your shift was answered in the first Argumēt your cavils are stale you are againe convinced Touching the other matter of cōning phrases ād formes of praier by roate to say ouer certeine number of wordes yt is popish and a meere euasiō and bewrayeth your ignorāce in praier In this you haue granted me that he which prayeth not with a feeling of his presēt wāts of his soule but saith ouer certeine number of wordes of custome or affectatiō he is an hipocrite which is true proved Mat 6.7 Now by this examine your daylie monethlie annuall etc. saying ouer nay reading ouer certeine wordes euery tyme the same as you are stinted It is plaine the sacrifice of fooles Ecclesiastes 4.17 The two pointes wherin you protest so willinglie to agree with me were these First whether only such prayers as were made without the booke were accepted of Gods childrē Secondly whether the same spirit teacheth vs to pray that taught the holie men of God before tyme. You grant both these but that you would seeme to alter the first question wel then God 's owne spirit that taught thē to pray without a booke or stinting of wordes teacheth vs so to pray nowe and in the action of praying giueth the mouth to vtter what the heart desireth moved with the same spirit Still then after your long shifting to and fro I trust you will stand to your first wordes that you never read in the Scriptures anie cōmaundement for reading of prayers Secondlie to say ouer certeine numbers of words or phrases of the Scripture of custome or affectatiō without feeling of or asking for our present wantes is hipocresie Therfore I will conclude as I beganne myne Argument standing good that To do any thing in the worship of God werof we have no warrāt of Gods worde is synne But read prayers haue no warrant in Gods Word Ergo. etc. The third Argument We may not in the worship of God receaue anie tradition which bringeth our libertie into bondadge Read praier vpon commandement brought into the publique assemblies is a tradition that bringeth our libertie into bondage Therfore read prayer c. The Minor is thus proved that God hath left it in all mens freedome to pray as the present occasion requireth and the spirit giveth vtterance according to his will Againe no man hath power to commaunde anie thing in the worship of God which God hath not cōmaunded etc. Marke 7.7.8.9 Mat. 15. Gal. 5 1. etc. G. Gifford I say it is vngodlie and neere vnto blasphemie to affirme that prescript forme of prayer is a tradition bringing our libertie into bondage c. my reason was is that the Lord by Moses prescribed a forme of blessing c. Nom 6. the Prophetes in the Psalmes have prescribed manie formes of prayer Our Sauiour Christ prescribed a forme of praier c. I. Greenvvood HEre is a greate storme and yet nothing but wynde If you were in Cai●has his place you would either have rent your clothes for zeale or els condemne me before you vnderstand what I say Is yt simple dealing do you thinke to say I hold it a bondage breaking our libertie for the Lord by Moses 〈◊〉 Prophetes our Sauiou● Christ also to set downe a forme of praier or to prescribe a forme of praier Did you not see that the Minor Propositiō speaketh of the reading for praing and not of the forme of prayer Agayne of the commandement wher by men are compelled to reade instead of praying Did you not see that these wordes brought in to the publique assemblies did specifye the matter to be mens writtings to be read in the assemblies as a worship yea invocation of Gods name which is a grosse mockery Not that ther is any Commandement to reade ouer those formes of praier mentioned by you for praying and so the Cōmandement so to reade them for praying is an abuse of them and a Commandement of men and not of God etc. But that much more odious yt is to bring in mens writtings into the publique assemblies proved vnlawfull in the first argument and then to commit Idolatrie with them by reading them instead of praying and that to cōpell men by Commandement wher God had set no Commandement 〈◊〉 vse them was a bringing all men into bondage of popish traditions So that your common recitall of these places of Scripture is abuse of them and you do but palinodian canere I thincke if you get St. IHONS gospell about your necke as the Papists you wil thincke you haue religion ynough The more fearful is your Apostacy you proceede from euill to worse G. Gifford About the Commaunding a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed our Church doth agree with all godly Churches yea the reformed Churches haue and do practize the same here therfore I wish the reader to obserue that you Brovvnists do not only condemne the Church of England but all the reformed Churches whatsoeuer and can be no other but Donatistes I. Greenvvod I Trust your madnes will appeare to all men the poyson of Aspes is vnder your tongue he that cannot rule his tongue his Religion is in vayne Shall I in your hea●e be pressed with multitude of Churches thē heare what the Lorde saith Thou shalt not followe a multitude to do euill we have the worde amongst

the true God through the meditation of Christ in spirit and truth with heart and voyce for our present wantes according to the wil of God was never yet sincearly taught by these time-seruing Priests But as an agreeable service to the humors of earthlie minded men which haue not the spirit of God this ware was thrust vpō al people they well knowing that such a ministerie and such a Church of wordlings could neuer haue stood without such a Samaritan worshipp and Egiptian calf and like earthlie deuised to counterfeyt a Religion al men inclyned to some And long have I heard this pretended worship inveyed against by many sometymes zealous for the errours and confused order therof Yet could I not heare anie to sett downe or teach which was the true prayer that only pleased God manie contriving divers formes of wordes as though they had knowen the heart of man counselled them to reade them day vnto day yeare vnto yeare at evening morning dinner Svpper c. by portion measure and stint as an offering to God what state soever the soule were in not teaching the difference betweene reading vpon a booke and prayer vnto God all this tyme. So that true and only prayer hath not beene taught al this tyme and those that knewe how to pray aright neglect it this reading being most easie as they thinke and they a●test therunto compelled in the publique assemblies thus to mocke with God after the manner of the papists mattins true zeale no where founde but in the persequted remnant These my first writings caryed abroade by such as desired true instruction and willing to make others partakers of such benefites as God imparted vnto them yt fell into Mr. GIFFORDS hand Who as yt seemeth being a marchaunt of such ware fynding the gayne of the priesthood to depend here vpon or as he saith the peace vniformitie of the Church made head vnto yt and that not with purpose as the fruite of his labour sheweth to edifie others but standing himself a minister to this Liturgie having made shipwrack of that conscience he sometimes was thought to haue with all bitternes of spirit and carnal wisdome having no more savour of grace in his writings then there is taste in the white of an egge fleeth vpō me with vncharitable raylings sclanders c And loadeth not only me but al the faithfull that walke by the rule of Gods worde with opprobrious titles of Donatists Brownists Anabaptists Heretiques Schismatiques seditious foolish frantick c. to bring not onely vs but the truth of God into contempt with our Sovereigne Prynce and all that feare God for he ceaseth not with laying al reproches he can devise vpō our persons as one of those Locusts Reu. 9. whose similituds are like vnto horses prepared to battell whose faces like men but theyr teeth as the teeth of Lyons But also perverteth blaspheameth and by al meanes de faceth the truth offered him Wel seyng the natural man perceaveth not the things of the spirit of God I speake not here of the giftes of the spirit but of the grace of God which sanctifieth the same many hauing Charismata that haue not Charin. And seyng I am alreadie thus rent Gods truth delivered by me troden vnder his feete I will followe the councell of Salomon who forewarneth me that he vvhich reproveth a skorner receaueth to himself shame and he that rebuketh the vvicked himself a blot And so tourne me from him leauing him to the consideration of his owne words where hee saieth in his Epistle to the reader He that seemeth most zealous in Religion and refrayneth not his tongue hath but bitternes in his heart in stead of heauenly zeale And though nothing els can be looked for at theyr handes that are Apostate from that light they have sometymes themselves published of which sorte the worlde was never more full yet for the good of Gods chosen scattered abroade and for the defence of Gods trueth I cannot holde my tongue And for the more playnenes I will answeare as to him though I minde not to haue anie more to do with him till God giue him repentance Wishing grace by the direction of Gods holy spirit to him that readeth to weigh both sides vprightly and to follow the truth to his owne saluation IO. GRENWOOD GEORGE GIFFORD To condemne and ouerthrow read prayer ye bring as the ground or foundation of all your matter this Sentence GOD is a Spirit and to be vvorshipped in Spirit Iohn 4. This Scripture in deede is cleare and strong to cut downe al Carnal worship as disgreeing from the nature of GOD. And if any mayntaine that the very bodily action of reading is the worship of God it may fitly be alleadged against them c. IOHN GREENWOODS ANSWER Wisdome is Iustified of her Children IT is agreed vpon and consented vnto on both sides that seeing God is a spirit and onely requireth such to worship him as worship him in spirit and truth all carnall worship is cut downe hereby of what sort soeuer as disagreeing from the nature of God And that all fantastical deuises of men namely whatsoeuer is not warranted in his worde is carnall worship a wearisomnes vnto him and lothsome in his sight So that no man ought to intermedle attempt or practize anie thing in shew of worship whereof they haue not sure grounde of his worde For euen our God is a consuming fire Now to put away all your bodily distinctions and earthly cauils I still affirme as I haue proued the stinting imposing mens writings vpon publique assemblies to haue them read ouer by number and stint or any other way as a worship of God in stead of true inuocation is a meere deuise of man and so carnall worship as also all other reading of mens writinges publiquely or priuatly in this abuse for praying to God Yet say you to apply this Scripture Iohn 4.22.23 in this manner against read prayer is friuolous where I appeale to all mens consciences for the weight therof It is friuolous you say except I can proue that a man cannot pray by the spirit of GOD with sighes and groanes vpon a booke or when prayer is vttered after a prescript forme c. At the first step you go about to alter the question All our prayers ought to be vttered after a prescript forme euen that perfect rule and forme our Sauiour gaue to his Disciples and al poste●ities But this is nothing to the matter For the other which is nothing but a begging of the question I alleaged certayne reasons to this effecet First that those sighes and groanes in reading instead of praying were not of fayth seeing in praying the sighes and groanes that proceede of faith minister matter to praye without a booke Secondly that you did but barely affirme the question in calling it prayer by the spirit when one doth read seing reading is not praying at al for as I then alleadged to inuocate the name of God in