by occasion to a comparison betwixt the new that is and that that of old was the religion of the Church of Rome consisting specially of three parts In the first I shewed that neither the Epistle of S. Paul to the Romans which is the briefe of the religion which they at the first receiued and containeth as I shewed out of Theodoret all manner doctrine of faith nor yet the two Epistles of S. Peter whom they make the founder of their Church doe containe any defence of the doctrine now taught at Rome but doe teach only our religion In the second I set downe sundry definitions and doctrines of the ancient Roman faith deliuered by the Bishops of Rome and other Authours that haue witnessed the doctrine of that Church wholly consonant and agreeable to that that we teach and altogether impugned by the Roman Church that now is In the third I declared that there were sundry heresies condemned of old by the Roman Church which the Church of Rome now embraceth and defendeth The points of this comparison I then set downe only positiuely the occasion requiring no more not respecting what cauillations the aduersary might bring for oppugning thereof the matter being by that light that I gaue very cleare that the Church of Rome is not now the same that it was of old This matter I afterwards thought worthy of a larger treatise and purposed when opportunity should serue a more full prosecution of it thinking it would bee a great comfort and establishment to the consciences of many men perhaps to some an occasion of better minde when they should see in that Church of Rome that now is such a plain repugnancy to that that of old was which notwithstanding taketh vpon it impudently to haue beene alwaies the same and to bee the only certaine rule and oracle of true faith In this meane time Doctor Bishop fearing lest his silence should make his cause suspicious and therefore thinking it necessary whether right or wrong to say somewhat publiâ—â—eth A Reproofe of the defence of the Reformed Catholike setting vnder this title a Gorgons head to affright all men concerning me as hauing abused Gods sacred word mangled misapplyed and falsified the ancient Fathers sentences so that whosoeuer hath any due care of his owne saluation can neuer hereafter credit me in matter of faith and religion Concerning which hideous outcry of my falsifications I referre thee to the Aduertisement which I haue added to my third part of the defence of the Reformed Catholike where thou shalt see that as hee hath laied himselfe open so I haue scourged him accordingly But in that Reproofe of his very little is it that hee hath said for iustifying what he himselfe had before written not being able indeede to defend any one point thereof only he found somewhat whereof to cauill concerning my debating of the name Catholike and the comparison which I made betwixt the old and new Roman Church and thereof as touching the matter of substance he hath framed his booke To this therefore I haue addressed my description of the ancient Roman Catholike forbearing that more orderly course which I had intended for the performance of this worke and choosing rather to follow him steppe by steppe as formerly I haue done only beginning where hee commeth to the purpose and leauing all his vagaries and affected discourses to be more briefly touched in the end of all Of this worke I haue yet finished but only one part wherin I haue at large discouered their vaine ostentation of the Catholike name and faith and shewed plainely that the Romish religion now accordeth not with S. Pauls Epistle to the Romans no nor with his other Epistles which M. Bishop calleth to assist him because he findeth nothing to helpe him in that Epistle to the Romans In all which I haue beene carefull gentle Reader to giue thee satisfaction by the cleare testimony either of some learned Bishops of Rome or of some other famously approued and commended in that Church Being now required a seruice of another kinde so that I cannot yet goe forward with the rest I haue thought good to publish this in the meane time If I haue promised any thing in this that is not here performed expect it in that that is to come Assist me I pray thee with thy prayers vnto almighty God by whose grace I hope in due time to supply that that is wanting now The Contents of this Booke CHAP. I. THat the Church of Rome doth vaineâ—y and absurdly challenge to it selfe the name of the Catholike Church and hath no priuiledge from God either of superiority in gouernement or stability in faith CHAP. II. The comparison betwixt the Papists and the Donatists is iustified and enlarged CHAP. III. That the name of Catholikes is abused by the Papists and is in their abuse a Donatisticall and hatefull name of faction and schisme that being in that sort substantiuely and personally vnderstood it was not vsed for three hundred yeares after Christ and therefore being abused may bee left againe that Popery properly so called is nothing but additions of latter time to our religion CHAP. IIII. That the Church before Christ euen from the beginning was a part of the Catholike Church and that the faith and religion of the new Testament differeth not in substance from the old M. Bishops proofes for Popery out of the old Testament are shewed to be ridiculous and vaine In the end is a briefe defence of the Kings supremacy in causes Ecclesiasticall CHAP. V. That faith and religion cannot be safely grounded on the example of Fathers and fore-fathers and that the Popish agents and factours doe in this pretence also abuse the credulity of ignorant men CHAP. VI. That the reasons of Popery where there is not a minde preiudicate are not vrgent or forcible and that M. Bishop was iustly censured for that in repeating a rule deliuered by the Kings Maiestie for iudgement of true religion he left out some words thereof CHAP. VII Of the flourishing and best estate of the Church of Rome and of the testimony of Theodoret concerning fulnesse of doctrine contained in the Epistle to the Romans and that the Apostle there condemneth Popery of idolatry in worshipping Saints and Images CHAP. VIII That iustification before God consisteth not in proceeding from faith to workes but in the continuation of faith to faith and that this faith notwithstanding cannot be separated from charity and good workes CHAP. IX That the iustification of man before God is the imputation of righteousnesse without workes CHAP. X. That eternall life is meerly and wholly the gift of God and cannot be purchased by merit or desert CHAP. XI That concupiscence or lust is sinne euen in the very habit and first motions of it CHAP. XII Of the spirit of adoption giuing witnesse to the faithfull that they are the sonnes of God CHAP. XIII That the good workes or sufferings of this life are not meritorious or worthy
Resurrection of our Lord Iesus This is our religion and herein their example iustifieth vs but their doctrines of transubstantiation and reall presence and concomitancy and sacrifice propitiatory for quicke and dead with the rest of that kinde are additions of theirs whereof the institution of Christ which togither with vs they recite maketh no shew at all If they should haue disclaimed redemption and remission of sinnes by the bloud-shed and death of Christ Christian people would haue defied them therefore they left the name thereof in the Church which is our religion but they defeated the power of it by briâ—ging in a thousand other deuices wherby men should redeeme themselues and purchase the remission of their owne sinnes It is our religion to acknowledge Christ to be the Mediator betwixt God and Man and this they would neuer disauow but to Christ they haue ioyned the Saints also to be our Mediators It is our religion to teach that God is to be worshipped and all spirituall deuotion is to be done vnto him and this they cannot deny but they haue added hereto the worshipping of Saints and Saints Images and thereby haue defiled the worship of the immortall God They deny not grace which our religion teacheth but they put to it the power of nature and free will They dare not but confesse Christ to be the head of the Church which our religion teacheth but they haue added the Pope to be another head and so haue made the Church a Monster with two heads Thus in euery point of doctrine take away those patcheries and additions of theirs which are things not taught vs by the word of God and euen in their religion that which remaineth is our religion the very truth of the Gospell of Iesus Christ For these and such other propositions of true faith the Diuell could neuer abolish out of the Church only by Antichrist he suppressed the knowledge and vse of them and to this wholsome wine put such abundance of his corrupt and poisoned waters as might frustrate the power and effect thereof Wherein notwithstanding he could not so farre preuaile but that the light here and there brake forth by such chinks and lattises as were remaining which many of our forefathers in the time of that Aegyptian darkenesse did discerne and see to their euerlasting comfort and soules health Yea M. Bishop knoweth well that there were in those times both Pastors and Flocks not in one only Countrey but in many who detested those blendings and mixtures of theirs and kept themselues either wholly or for the most part to the entire truth of our religion the light whereof euen then shined vnto them out of the very darkenesse of the Church Which notwithstanding we wonder not that he pretendeth not to know who will seeme not to know that our religion hath spred it selfe into Italie and Spaine when as all the world knoweth that the Inquisition hath shed the bloud of many thousands there only for the profession of our religion Yea the principles of our religion are so residing will they nill they in the very bowels of Popery as that they are forced to vse many sinister courses to drowne and stifle them and to keepe the people from taking knowledge thereof because they see that if there be but winde to blow away the ashes our fire will straightwaies burne amongst them and the flame presently ascend to the consuming of their roofe they see that if men be but stirred a 〈…〉 awaked out of their sleepe they will be forthwith ready out of the very common instinct of Christianity to beeleeue as we doe In Greece in Africa in Asia wheresoeuer the Gospell is there is no other but our Gospell because there is no Gospell but that which the Euangelists and Apostles haue recorded in the writings of the Gospell neither is Christ any where knowen but where he is knowen by that Gospell Therein hath our Gospell beene spred ouer the whole world therein we communicate with the Church of the whole world wheresoeuer this Gospell is free there our religion is not bound but thereby euen amidst errour and apostasie b wisedome is iustified of her children and God Mat. 11. 19. according to the purpose of his grace giueth light vnto euerlasting life As for the Indians lamentable experience haue they had of the Popish Gospell Neuer any Apostle or Euangelist carryed their religion abroade as the Papists haue done thither and they haue cause to wish that the Roman Church had neuer beene so Catholike as to extend to them Vpon some few of the remainder of them they haue forced baptisme some of their ceremonies but they haue taught them nothing of religion nothing of the Gospell of Iesus Christ How otherwise their religion hath beene spred ouer the whole world enough hath beene said already in briefe I say here that they can alleage no age nor time wherein they can make good that it hath so beene We know they can talke at will but farre are they from proofe that their doctrines of the Popes Supremacy his Pardons and Iubilees of Purgatory of Transubstantiation of their priuate Masse and halfe Communion with a number of such other were euer or at any time receiued throughout the whole world CHAP. IIII. That the Church before Christ euen from the beginning was a part of the Catholike Church and that the faith and religion of the new Testament differeth not in substance from the old A BRIEFE DEFENCE OF THE KINGS SVPREMACY ECCLESIASTICALL ANSWERE TO THE EPISTLE NOw as of this Catholike Church from the beginning to the end there is c. to Now whereas he alleageth c. W. BISHOP §. 1. WE agree in this that there is but one faith one baptisme one spirituall foode and one religion in the Catholike Church but M. Abbot is fouly ouer-seen about the time when the true Church beganne first to be called Catholike which was not before Christs time but afterwards according to that alleaged out of Pacianus an ancient Author who writeth of the name Catholike saying Pacian Epist ad Simphor de nomine Catholico Christian is my name Catholike is my surname For when among Christians some beganne to teach false doctrine and to draw others after them into sects they that remained sound and did cleaue fast vnto the whole body of the Church were intituled Catholikes to distinguish them from Heretikes that did not ioyne with the vniuersall corps of Christians in faith and religion which M. Abbot before did in plaine words confesse see his text afore where he beginneth to argue of the word Catholike And the reason is most perspicuous why the Iewes and their religion could not be called Catholike though it were right and according to the will of God for that time because Catholike signifieth that which is spred all the world ouer and receiued of all nations so was not the law of Moyses and the manner of seruing God therein prescribed but was peculiar
the Scots in the doctrine of the Church of Rome euen as Augustine was from S. Gregory into England From which the Scots Church neuer swarued vntill of late yeares Knoxe Buchanan and such like giddy headed and fiery spirited fellowes seduced them And M. Abbot most ignorantly or impudently affirmeth it to haue beene 1200. yeares after the incarnation of Christ ere the Popes authority could get any acknowledgment there for in the very same hundreth yeare by him named they were so farre off from denying the Popes authority ouer them in causes Ecclesiasticall that they did acknowledge him to be also their Protectour in temporall affaires For when King Edward the third would haue giuen them Iohn Balial for their King they answered him That they would not accept of him for such Walsingham in vita Edw. Anno 1292. without the Popes consent who had their country in protection as they then pleaded And M. Abbots argument to the contrary is most friuoulous Alexander the King bade the Popes Legate to enter his country at his perill ergo he did not acknowledge the Popes authority By the like argument one might proue that King Philip and Queene Mary did not acknowledge the Popes authority for they commanded a Legate of his to stay at Calis and to forbeare entrance into this Realme at his perill The Popes Legates then when they be sent about affaires that doe seeme to the Prince and his Councell preiudicious to the temporall slate may be refused without disparagement to the Popes supreme authority in causes Ecclesiasticall And the King of Scots had reason to refuse that Cardinall Legate whose speciall arrand was to collect money to maintaine the warres of the holy Land which was not to be spared in his Countrey Besides the very entertainement of such a great State so accompanied was reputed as needlesse so ouer costly for that poore Countrey If M. Abbot haue no better stuffe then this to vphold his badde cause he that best knew his owne meaning and designement hath to the life painted out himselfe where he saith They care not indeede what they say or write so that it may carry a magnificall and braue shew to dazell the eyes of them that are not well acquainted with their lewde and naughty dealing R. ABBOT a Bale Script BritaÌ„nic Cent. 1. oper minor PAlladius and Patritius were sent into Scotland by Celestinus Bishop of Rome to instruct the Scots against the doctrine of Pelagius the Heretike which is a certaine argument of the apostasie of the Church of Rome inasmuch as the Church of Rome now patronizeth and defendeth the doctrine of Pelagius as I haue b Of Free will sect 5. before shewed Little doth M. Bishop gaine by all this alleagement of teachers then sent from Rome We know what was then the religion of the Church of Rome and we know that the streame the longer it ranne the more soile it gathered but yet it was very pure and tollerable then in comparison of that that now it is There followeth now an assertion of mine that it was twelue hundred yeares after the incarnation of Christ ere the Popes authority could get any acknowledgement in Scotland which he saith I doe most impudently or ignorantly affirme But how doth it appeare that I so doe Forsooth in the very same hundreth yeare by him named saith he they were so farre off from denying the Popes authority ouer them in causes Ecclesiasticall that they did acknowledge him to be their Protectour in temporall affaires Marke well gentle Reader that I name twelue hundred yeares and he saith in the very same hundreth yeare and yet for the thing which he reporteth of the Scots alleaging that the Pope had their Countrey in protection he noteth the yeare 1290. which was almost a hundred yeares after the time by me set downe Be it M. Bishop that at the end of twelue hundred and ninety yeares they had receiued the Pope to be the Protectour of their Countrey that nothing hindereth the truth of my speech that for twelue hundred yeares they acknowledged not any authority of the Pope amongst them in Church affaires You should haue brought vs some records to shew that within the compasse of those twelue hundred yeares the Pope had without controllement exercised in the Realme of Scotland Ecclesiasticall and ordinary iurisdiction which seeing you doe not you iustifie my assertion and the impudency whereof you speake must be the staine of your owne face who will take vpon you to contradict me with such an impertinent and sleeuelesse tale To proue that there was no such iurisdiction acknowledged I referred the Reader to the King of Scots owne wordes who as Matthew Paris reporteth c Math. Paris in Henrico 3. Anno 1237. Volenti autem Domino Legato intrare regnum Scotiae vt ibi de negotijs Ecclesiasticis tractaret sicut in Anglia respondit Rex Scotiae Non memini Legatum in terra mea vidisse nec opus esse iquem esse vocandum Deo gratias nec adhuc opus est omnia benè se habent Nec â—tiam tempore Patris mei vel alicuius AntecessoruÌ„ meorum visus est aliquis Legatus intâ—oitum habuisse nec ego dum mei compos suero tolerabo when the Lord Legate was desirous to enter into the Kingdome of Scotland there to deale in Ecclesiasticall matters as he had done in England answered him I doe not remember that I haue seene any Legate in my Countrey nor that there hath beene any neede thanks be to God that any should be called neither is there any neede all things are well No nor in the time of my Father or of any of my Predecessours hath any Legate beene seene to haue had any entrance there neither will I suffer any so long as I am in my right wits This euidence is cleare none had entred in his time none had entred in the time of his Father or any of his Predecessours none should enter so long as he could keepe him in his right minde and though things were amisse yet none had authority to enter but as he should be called and warranted by him The same in effect he alleaged two yeares after when the Legate againe was attempting to goe into that Countrey and though after much adoe vpon intercession of the Nobles of England and Scotland he was content for once to admit him that he might not haue the disgrace of being repulsed yet it was with condition as I haue d See the Aduertisement concerning D. Bishops Reproofe sect 15. formerly declared that the said Legate should put in caution vnder his hand and seale that his entrance should not be drawen to a matter of example whereupon to presume the like another time This matter is more plaine then that M. Bishops paltry shifts can put it off King Philip and Queene Mary respited the entrance of a Legate for a time but wholly to deny him entrance for ordering matters
THE TRVE ANCIENT ROMAN CATHOLIKE BEING AN APOLOGY OR COVNTERPROOFE AGAINST DOCTOR BISHOPS REPROOFE of the defence of the Reformed CATHOLIKE THE FIRST PART Wherein the name of Catholikes is vindicated from Popish abuse and thence is shewed that the faith of the Church of Rome as now it is is not the Catholike faith nor the same with the faith commended in the Epistles of St. Peter and St. Paul and that confirmed by the testimony of the ancient Bishops of Rome and other Writers of that Church By ROBERT ABBOT Doctor of Diuinity Master of BALIOâ—â— Colledge in Oxford August cont Faust Munich l. 29. c. 2. Maneat nobis aduersus illâ—s potius pro veritate certamen quà m cum illâ—s in falsitate concordia LONDON Printed by William Stansby for Ambrose Garbrand and are to be sold at the signe of the Wind-mill in Pauls Church-yard 1611. TO THE RIGHT HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE HENRY PRINCE OF WALES DVKE OF CORNWALL AND ROTHSAY EARLE OF CHESTER Knight of the most Honorable Order of the GARTER MOST gracious and renowmed PRINCE such is the malice and fury of Antichrist Greg. lib. 4. Epist 38. and his army of Priests as Gregory calleth them in oppugning the religion and faith of Christ as giueth cause to vs that fight for Christ to stand continually 〈◊〉 our guard and to be ready still in armes to entertaine the assaults that are continually made against vs. They carry themselues now towards vs the more eagerly and angerly for that they see themselues deceiued of the prey which they long hoped for imagining before this time out of the troubled waters of this State to haue fished somewhat for aduantage to themselues Which expectation being by the mercy of God wholly frustrate they imitate the Dragon in the â— Reuelation casting out of their Reuel 12. 15. mouthes by calumniations and slanders and all outrage and importunity of malicious contradiction euen flouds of waters to carry violently away and to drowne if it were possible the woman euen the Church of Christ amongst vs that hath escaped their cruel and bloudy hands But thanks be to God that hath giuen vs meanes to set mounds and banks against these raging flouds that howsoeuer they threaten yet they hurt vs not nor endanger any but such as rashly aduenture to swimme in vnknowne waters or being desirous of curiosity and foolish humour to see their owne shadow in the riuer Tyber whilest they admire themselues cast themselues head-long to bee drowned therein Now in that seruice of the Roman Antichrist Doctor Bishop our Countriman hath very industriously done his part and hath laboured if not to excell yet to equall almost any of his fellowes in the subuerting of wayward and vnstable soules and in animating of men to obstinacy against the truth of God Who hauing to the Kings most excellent Maiesty disgorged against vs the venome and poison of his corrupt and wicked heart and being by me duly chastened for his disloyal and traiterous attempt to delude by false suggestions his Liege and Soueraigne Lord seeing his impostures and fraudes most plainely discouered and laied open hath since added drunkennesse Deut. 29. 19. to his thirst and sought to fill vp the measure of his former iniquity by wilfull railing at those things which he knoweth to be true and hauing no other way to reuenge the impeaching of his credit greatly touched as he conceiued by the answering of his booke hath in a latter booke runne vpon mee furiously and loden me so much as in him lieth with odious imputations of abusing falsifying misconstruing misapplying both Scriptures and Fathers like the vngracious Thiefe at the barre who conuicted by most cleare and apparant euidence yet still impudently cryeth out that all is false But by an Aduertisement written for the time concerning that booke of his I haue made it manifest that that cry of his is but a cry of course the breath of an obdurate and euill conscience by which he standeth condemned in himselfe desperately Tit. 3. 11. bent against his owne knowledge to peruert to forge to face any thing to serue his turne which plainly appearing so to be little reason had I to trouble my selfe to giue any further answere to it Neuerthelesse because the further answere of the chiefe part of it hath fallen within the compasse of my intention of describing the true ancient Roman Catholike and no difference there is but that whereas I might otherwise haue walked at mine owne liberty I now tie my selfe to follow him I haue yeelded so much to him that whereas by comparison I formerly shewed that the new Church of Rome in faith and religion is farre estranged from the old it may now more fully appeare that so it is and that M. Bishop contending for the contrary hath done it only for his belly and for his credits sake hauing made the deceiuing of soules his occupation to liue by and being ashamed at these yeares to confesse that he himselfe hitherto hath been deceiued Which worke I most humbly desire may goe forth vnder the protection of your Highnesse whom according to that eminent wisedome and knowledge wherewith God hath endued these your younger yeares I make the Iudge of this quarrell and therefore the first part thereof I now tender at your Highnesse feete for a testimony of my loyall and dutifull affection and for acknowledgement of my deuotions vnto almighty God for the preseruation of your Highnesse and the continuance and increase of his graces and blessings towards you that your Princely name may more and more grow great and may be a terrour to that selfe-exalting Kingdome and Monarchy of the great Capitolian Priest at length to worke the vtter ruine and confusion thereof Which as we beleeue not to bee farre of so we hope that in that glorious reuenge of the cause of almighty God your Highnesse shall haue a chiefe and an honorable part and that God will strengthen your arme and giue edge to your sword to strike through the loines of all them that are the supporters of that Antichristian and wicked state Which with all other additions of honour and renowme both with God and men I will neuer cease to further by my prayers vnto almighty God so resting alwaies To your Highnesse seruice most humbly and affectionately deuoted R. Abbot TO THE CHRISTIAN READER THov hast here good Christian Reader the first Part of the worke which I promised The true ancient Roman Catholike Thou maiest remember that in my answere to Doctor Bishops Epistle to the King I challenged the name of Catholiks from the Popish abuse thereof and shewed out of the true explication and vse of the word Catholike that neither the Church of Rome can be called the Catholike Church nor the faith of the Roman Church that now is can be called the Catholike faith and therefore that very fondly and by a meere vsurpation they take vnto them the name of Catholikes After this I entred
of the blisse of the life to come CHAP. XIIII That the Epistles of St. Paul are loosely and impertinently alleaged by the Papists for proofe of their Popery as namely for Iustification before God by workes for Free-will against certainty of saluation and particular Faith for the Merit of single life for Monkish vowes for Purgatory and prâ—yer for the Dead for Images and inuocation of Saints for the Masse and Reall presence for the Authority of thâ— Church of Rome for Pardons for Traditions for the perpetuall visibility of the Church for Satisfactions and workes of supererogation for seuen Sacraments c. THE TRVE ANCIENT ROMANE CATHOLICKE CHAP. I. That the Church of Rome doth vainely and absurdly challenge to it selfe the name of the Catholicke Church Answere to Doct. BISHOPS Epistle Sect. 3. HEre M. Bishop propoundeth briefely to his Maiestie the summe of his Petition c. to It is therefore a meere Vsurpation c. Doct. BISHOPS REPROOFE Pag. 89. §. 1. MAster Abbot is now at length come from his extrauagant rouing narrations vnto some kind of argumentation Here he will giue a proofe of his valour here we shall soone trie whether he come so wel furnished into the field that he neede not to doubt of the victory as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he 〈…〉 ed of himselfe on whether his speciall skill and force die not rather lie in râ—â—ling at vs and in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Reader then in any sound kinde of re 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 out of St. Aug 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the â—ord Catholike we â—â—llingly â—â—mit off to wit That religion is Catholike that faith is Catholike which is spread ouer all the world and hath beene alwaies imbraced and practised euen from the Apostles time to our daies and such is the religion which I would haue perswaded his Maiesty to receiue into his Princely protection To this what saith M. Abbot marry that his Maiesty hath already receiued it How doth he proue that not by any one plaine and round argument directly to the purpose but from the Catholike religion falleth to the Catholike Church and so spendeth the time in most friuolous arguing against the Roman Church of which I made no mention at all Doth he not deserue a Lawrell garland for the worshipfull ranging of his battell and is he not like to fight it out valiantly that thus in the beginning flyeth from the point of the Question Proue good Sir that his Maiesty imbraceth and maintaineth that religion which is spread ouer all the world and that hath continued euer since the Apostles time and then you may iustly say that he vpholdeth the Catholike religion according to your owne explication out of the ancient Fathers But because Mr. Abbot saw this to be impossible he gaue it the sâ—ippe and turneth himselfe to proue the Roman religion not to be the Catholike and perceiuing that also as hard to performe as the other he shuffles from the religion and faith of which the Question was vnto the Roman Church that is from the faith professed at Rome to the persons inhabiting the City of Rome whom he will proue not to be Catholikes and the Roman Church not to be the Catholike Church Doe you marke what winding and turning and what doubling this simple Minister is driuen vnto ere he can come to make any shew of a silly argument R. ABBOT I Doe not maruell that my narrations seeme to M. Bishop to be extrauagant and rouing who hauing set vp his owne marke thinketh all to be extrauagant and rouing that flyeth not by his aime Albeit he is beholding to me for those extrauagant and rouing narrations because they haue ministred him matter towards the making vp of a prety handsome booke which must haue beene much shorter if he had beene tyed to the substantiall points of his owne defence As for the victory that I ominated to my selfe thanks be to God I haue obtained it being become Master of the field and M. Bishop enforced to leaue the maine battell contented now only out of a corner to thrust an ambush that he may make some shew that he is not quite spent I triumph ouer him in his owne conscience being priuy to himselfe what desperate shifts he hath beene faine to vse to how cruell a racke he hath beene forced to put himselfe to make men beleeue that he hath strength enough left to saue himselfe It is but risus Sardonius whereby he iesteth at the simple Minister driuen to winding and turning and doubling it is indeede for his behoofe to haue it taken so but the Ministers proceeding is direct and orderly familiar and sensible to euery mans vnderstanding inferring by due course the very point that doth require proofe The Minister is not so simple but that he can easily discerue the pittifull case of a Popish Masse-monger who being troubled with a vertigo or some other distemperature of the braine thinketh all to be winding and turning about him when there is no turning at all but in his owne head The issue betwixt him and me was Whether his Maiesty doe 〈◊〉 and maintâ—ine the only true Catholike and Apostolike faith To proue that he doth so it was necessary first to explicate what is meant by the Catholike and Apostolike faith Of the Catholike Church it is that the faith is called The Catholike faith For there hath beene one and the same faith from the beginning as shall afterwards appeare but it could not be called the Catholike faith till the Church became the Catholike Church If of the Catholike Church the faith be called the Catholike faith then to shew what is meant by the Catholike faith I was first to shew what is meant by the Catholike Church This I did and 〈◊〉 occasion thereof taxed as due order required the 〈…〉 of the Pope and his complices in vsurping to themselues the name of the Catholike Church and thence terming themselues Catholikes that hauing destroyed their ridiculous and foolish claime there might be thereof no let to the collection whereat I aimed that the Catholike faith is the faith of the Catholike Church that the Catholike Church though becomming Catholike by being spred ouer the whole world yet containeth as a part thereof euen * Aug. de Catechiz rudib c. 19. Velut totus homâ— dum nascitur etiamsi manum in nascendo praemittat tameÌ„ vniuerso corpori sub capite coniuncta atque compacta est quem admodum etiam nonnulli in ipsis Patriarchis in buius ipsius rei signum manu praemissa nati sunt c. as an arme or hand come out of the wombe before the rest of the body the whole Church of God from the beginning of the world that of this whole body of the Church from the beginning to the end there is in substance but one faith and religion towards God that therefore what was the faith of the Patriarks and Fathers from the beginning the sâ—me and no other is now the Catholike faith whence it
followeth that seeing we retaine the same saith and religion whereby the Patriarks and Prophets and other Fathers from the beginning serued God which the Papists doe not as by instance and comparison I then declared and remaineth now to be made good therefore not the Popish faith but our faith must needes be holden to be the Catholike faith This processe is cleare the Reader seeth in it neither winding nor turning and therefore it was but a simple shift of so learned a Doctor against a simple Minister to mocke his Reader with a tale of flying the point in Question where it hath so direct and expresse conclusion He saith that they willingly admit of St. Austins doctrine that that religion and faith is Catholike which is spred ouer all the world c. but I brought nothing out of Austin concerninâ— Catholike faith and religion I only noted out of him why the Church is called the Catholike Church And therefore preposterously and idlâ—ly doth he here vrge me in that sort Proue good Sir that his Maiesty imbraceth and maintaineth that religion which is spred ouer all the world c. and then you may iustly say that he vpholdeth the Catholike religion For of the Catholike faith and religion the conclusion followeth after in due place why then doth he thus preuent the time and like Dauus disorder ali but that he loueth to fish in troubled waters where his deceiptfull baites may be the lesse seene But if we must needes speake here of Catholike faith I will returne to him his owne question Proue good Sir that the Pope imbraceth and maintaineth that religion that is spred ouer all the world that Christians throughout the world are perswaded of that which you call the Catholike faith Bellarmine hath said it and Bellarmines ghost maintaineth it that the supremacy of the Pope for the deposing of Kings and Princes is a Bellar. epist ad Archipreâ—b apud Mat. Tort. Vnum ex praecipuis fidei nostrae capitibus ac religionis Catholicae fundamentis one of the chiefe points of your faith and of the very foundations of Catholike religion Proue now I pray you and bring vs hands and seales for it that we may beleeue you that the Christian Churches throughout Grecia Armenia Aethiopia Russia Palestina and such like are all become drunke and haue entertained this for a point of Catholike faith You will falle M. Bishop in this proofe and therefore why would you so much preiâ—â—iâ—ate your selfe to require the same of vs But Bellarmine himselfe shall free vs from any neede to trauell for this proofe who saith that b Bellar. de notis Eccles cap. 7. Si sola vna Prouincia retineret veram fidem adhuc vere proprie diceretur Ecclesia Catholica dummodo clare ostéderetur â—am esse vnam eandem cum illa quae fuit aliquo tempere vel diuersis in toto mundo Though one only Prouince or Country did retaine the true faith yet the same should truly and properly be called the Catholike Church and therefore their faith the Catholike fa 〈…〉 so long as it could be cleerly shewed that the same is one and the same with that which at any time or times was ouer the whole world To proue then that our faith is the Catholike faith it shall be sufficient to proue that it is that which once was spred ouer the whole world Now with the proofe thereof M. Bishop is choked already and all that we see from him now is but a vaine and bootlesse strugling to recouer his breath againe But yet he saith M. Abbot gaue this the slippe and turneth himselfe to proue the Roman religion not to be the Catholike And was not that M. Bishop a shreud turne for you to proue the Roman religion not to be the Catholike and was it not very pertinent for me so to doe when you exhorted the Kings Maiesty to the Roman religion vnder pretence of that name Yea but he shuffles from the religion and faith of which the question was vnto the Roman Church But what will he haue vs thinke that there is a Roman Church without faith or religion that a man must shuffle from religion and faith to goe to the Roman Church forsooth he shuffles from the faith professed at Rome to the persons inhabiting the City of Rome to proue that they are no Catholikes and that the Roman Church is not the Catholike Church And doth not he shuffle amisse for you M. Bishop that can shuffle you from being Catholikes and the Roman Church from being the Catholike Church And he that shuffleth you from being Catholikes doth he not also shuffle the saith professed at Rome from being the Catholike faith Are these things so diuided each from other as that they cannot in their order be incident to the same discourse Surely M. Bishop my shuffling will yeeld but a bad game to you vnlesse you can cut more wisely for your selfe theâ— hitherto you haue done If you haue no better cardes then yet we see you will certainly loose all W. BISHOP §. 2. BVt let vs giue him leaue to wander whither his fancy leadeth him that we may at length heare what he would say It is forsooth That the Church of Rome doth absurdly call her selfe the Catholike Church and that Papists doe absurdly take to themselues the name of Catholikes because the Catholike Church is the vniuersall Church but the Church of Rome is a particular Church therefore to say the Roman Catholike Church is all one as to say the vniuersall particular Church Here is a well shapen argument and worthy the maker it consists of all particular propositions which euery smatterer in Logicke knowes to be most vitious besides not one of them is good but all are sophisticall and full of deceit First concerning the forme if it were currant one might prouely it that no one Church in the world were Catholike take for example the English congregation which they hold to be most Catholike and apply Mr. Abbots argument to it thus The Catholike Church is the vniuersall Church but the Church of England is a particular Church wherefore to say the English Church is Catholike is to say a particular Church is an vniuersall His first fault then is in the very forme of reasoning which alone is sufficient to argue him to be a Sophister and one that meaneth to beguile them that will trust him now to the particulars His first proposition the Catholike Church is the vniuersall Church is both absurd because the same thing is affirmed of himselfe for vniuersall is no distinct thing but the very interpretation of the word Catholike and also captious as hauing a double signification For the Catholike Church doth signifie both the whole body of the Church compacted of all the particular members vnited and ioyned together in one in which sense no one particular Church can be called the Catholike Church because it is not the whole body spred ouer all
the Catholike or Vniuersall Church discountenancing all partiall and schismaticall combinations and meere impudency is it by those or any other wordes of Austin to challenge to the Church of Rome an authority or superiority of gouernement ouer other Churches when as wee see that both Austin and the rest of the Bishops of Africa did with one consent vtterly disclaime the same Hitherto therefore wee see no cause to attribute to the Church of Rome any such priuiledges as M. Bishop pretendeth and the lesse opinion haue wee that any such there are for that hee bringeth no shew of proofe but onely by wresting and falsifying the Authours whom hee alleageth in that behalfe W. BISHOP §. 3. HEre comes in Master Abbots second proposition but the CHVRCH of Rome is a particular CHVRCH in which is as great doubling and deceit as in the former for albeit the Church of Rome doe in rigour of speech only comprehend the Christians dwelling in Rome yet is it vsually taken by men of both parties to signifie all Churches of whatsoeuer other Country that doe agree with the Church of Rome in faith and confesse the Pastor thereof to be the chiefe Pastor vnder Christ of the whole Church Like as in times past the Roman Empire did signifie not the territory of Rome alone or Dominion of Italie but also any nation that was subiect to the Roman Emperor Euen so the whole Catholike Church or any true member thereof may be called the Roman Church à parte principaliore because the Bishop of Rome is the supreme head of their Church Wherevpon if you demand of a French Catholike of what Church he is his answere will be that he is of the Catholike Roman Church where he addeth Roman to distinguish himselfe from all Sectaries who doe call themselues sometimes Catholikes though most absurdly and to specifie that hee is such a Catholike as doth wholly ioyne with the Roman Church in faith and religion Euen as the word Catholike was linked at first with Christian to distinguish a true Christian beleeuer from an Heretike according to that of Pacianus an ancient Authour Christian is my name Epistola ad Simphorian Catholike is my surname so now adaies the Epitheton Roman is added vnto Catholike to separate those Catholikes that ioyne with the Church of Rome in faith from other sectaries who doe sometimes call themselues also Catholikes though very ridiculously because they be diuided in faith from the greatest part of the vniuersall world Out of the premises may bee gathered that the Roman Church may well signifie any Church that holdeth and maintayneth the same faith which the Roman doth whence it followeth that M. Abbot either dealt doubly when he said the Roman Church to be a particular Church or else he must confesse himselfe to be one of those Doctors whom the Apostle noteth For not vnderstanding what 1. Tim. 1. vers 7. they speake nor of what they affirme R. ABBOT HEre is a new-found distinction and I confesse my selfe to be one of those Doctors that know it not and wee see that M. Bishop as great a Doctor as he is yet can bring neither Scripture nor Father nor Councell nor Story nor any ancient writer whatsoeuer for the warrant of it but such as it is wee must take it barely vpon his owne word The Church of Rome hath abused the world vnder pretence of the name of the Catholike Church alleaging falsly of it selfe that which is truly said of the Catholike Church that without the Church there is no saluation To discouer this fraude we instruct men as truth is that the Church of Rome is but a particular Church and therefore cannot be called the Catholike that is the vniuersall Church and therefore againe that it is but a meere mockery of Popish impostours whereby they say that out of the Church meaning the Church of Rome there is no saluation To this M. Bishop answereth that in that proposition The Church of Rome is a particular Church there is doubling and deceipt And how I pray Forsooth albeit the Church of Rome in rigour of speech doe comprehend only the Christians dwelling in Rome yet it is vsually taken to signifie all Churches of other Countries agreeing in faith with the Church of Rome and confessing the Pope to be chiefe Pastor of the whole Church Where it is to be obserued how hee setteth himselfe meerely to circumuent and cosen his Reader For it being admitted that the Church of Rome is taken to signifie all Churches of other Countries agreeing in faith with the Church of Rome and confessing the Popes chiefty ouer them yet this nothing hindereth but that the Church of Rome is still a particular Church or a part only of the Church because the whole Church doth not agree nor euer hath agreed to giue to the Pope and Church of Rome that chiefty which they require For how many Churches are there not in Europe only but also in Asia and Africa that deride that claime of theirs and neither yeeld nor acknowledge any such superiority to belong vnto them Yea and his owne instance of the Roman Empire confoundeth him in this behalfe because as the Roman Empire was not the Empire of the whole world but imported only the Countries subiect to the Romans there being many other Dominions and Kingdomes that were neuer subiect vnto them euen so the Roman Church is not the Church of the whole world which is the Catholike Church but signifieth only those Churches which professe subiection to the Bishop of Rome there being many other Churches which professe no such subiection Now therefore be it so that the Church of Rome is so vsually taken to signifie other Churches submitting themselues to the Church of Rome M. Bishop for all this to his purpose is neuer a whit the nearer vnlesse he can shew that the Church of Rome is taken to signifie the whole Catholike Church of Christ For if it be not the whole Catholike Church then it is but a member and part thereof and therefore only a particular Church Tell vs then M. Bishop is it any where to be found that the Roman Church is taken to signifie the whole Catholike Church Marke I pray thee gentle Reader how it sticketh betwixt his teeth Faine hee would speake it and yet because hee knoweth it to bee an absurd lye his heart faileth him and only faintly hee telleth vs The whole Catholike Church may be called the Roman Church But M. Bishop doe not tell vs what in your foolish conceipt may bee tell vs what hath beene done The Fathers were interested in this cause as well as wee they haue told vs of the East Church and the West Church the Greeke Church and the Latin Church they haue infinite times made mention of the Roman Church but shew vs that euer they meant by the Roman Church to signifie the whole Church Here hee is blancke and can say nothing and if he would say any thing the
authorised to all other Churches I am not so copious as to afford to euery leasing of M. Abbot a new phrase wherefore the Reader I hope will beare with my rudâ—nesse if I call sometimes a lye by the name of a lye It is an vntrue tale that the Donatists ordayned Bishops from Cartenna for they could not abide that place but esteemed it to be Schismaticall as you haue heard before He doth misreport S. Augustine who saith Quò ex Africa ordinare paucis Lib. 2. cont Câ—â—scon c. 37. vestris soletis Episcopum You Donatists are wont to order and send a Bishop thither to your few companions out of Africa not from Cartenna in Mauritania Neither doth the Catholike Church appoint that euery Bishop should goe to Rome to take holy Orders and from thence to be sent to other Catholike Countries but in euery other region where be three Catholike Bishops they may be lawfully consecrated albeit for vnities sake and to prâ—serue due order they bee confirmed by the Bishop of Rome the supreme head vnder Christ of the Catholike Church R. ABBOT PVt Africa here in steede of Cartenna and M. Bishop hath no shift to auoid this point of resemblance betwixt the Romanists and Donatists The Donatists designed the fundamentall place of the Catholike Church in Africa as the Papists doe at Rome The Donatists laboured the extent of their communion into all other Countries as also the Papists doe a Optat. lib. 2. Sed habere vos in vrbe Roma partem aliquam dicitis In the Citty of Rome it selfe as Optatus witnesseth the Donatists bragged that they had a part that ioyned with them They had there a Bishop of their owne to assemble and gouerne that part of theirs insomuch that Optatus in the same place reckoneth sixe Bishops of that faction Victor Bonifacius Encolpius Macrobius Lucianus Claudianus who had there succeeded one another Of the manner of the appointing of these Bishops St. Austin saith in the place by me cited to M. Bishop b Aug. cont Crescon lib. 2. cap. 37. Romanorum Ecclesia quò ex Africa paucis vestris ordinare soletis Episcopum To Rome for those few followers that you haue there you are wont to order and direct a Bishop out of Africa Out of Africa saith M. Bishop not out of Cartenna in Mauritania True it is if Africa be in speciall vnderstood but I not waighing the matter so strictly vnderstood Africa more largely as the third part of the world and in that signification Mauritania and therefore Cartenna in Mauritania is a part of Africa Well let Cartenna be put out and take Africa as indeed it was meant for c Theo lâ—ret haeret fabul l. 4. de Donatist Regio quae olim Lybia nunc autem Africa appellatur that Countrey which of old was called Lybia and in which meaning St. Austin noteth that Mauritania Caesariensis where Cartenna was d Aug. Epist 48. Mauritania Caesariensis quaÌ„do nec Africam se vult dici c. refused to be called by the name of Africa from this Africa the Donatists ordered and established Bishops ouer that part which they had at Rome and so said I from Rome by the Papists order must Bishops now be authorised to all other Churches Now M. Bishop seeing that Africa being thus put in steede of Cartenna the resemblance would somwhat touch their Church of Rome bringeth a very poore and silly shift for the auerting of it The Catholike Church saith he he meaneth the Roman Church doth not appoint that euery Bishop should goe to Rome to take holy Orders and from thence to be sent to other Catholike Countries No more say I did the Catholike Church of the Donatists binde men to come into Africa to be ordered Bishops there but it was enough if by Bishops of their communion he were ordered otherwhere For whether it were by sending some to order Bishops where none were or by sending Bishops already ordered it may either way stand which St. Austin noteth as a matter of their conceipt that e August de vnit Eccles c. 13. Ostendant esse praedictum solam Africam remansuram quocunque Episcopi ex Africa â—â—tierer tur out of Africa Bishops should be sent into all places And thus the same St. Austin although in the place alleaged he mention no more but the ordering of a Bishop to be sent to Rome out of Africa yet in another place declareth it to haue beene indifferent with them either f August ad Quodvult hâ—rel 69. In vrbe Roma Montâ—nses vocantur qu bus 〈◊〉 ex Africa solâ—nt Episcoâ—um mittere aut â—inc illuc Afri Epicopi corum pergere si fortè ibi cum ordinare placuisset to send a Bishop to Rome out of Africa or that the African Bishops should goe to Rome if they thought good to order a Bishop there namely because there were no other Bishops there of their communion by whom otherwise he might be ordered Whereas therefore M. Bishop saith that Bishops may lawfully be consecrated in any region where be three Catholike Bishops he saith no more for their Popish Bishops then the Donatists acknowledged of theirs and therefore in this point of the resemblance there is no difference at all betwixt the Donatists and the Papists Albeit by reason of that which M. Bishop confesseth that all Bishops must be confumed by the Bishop of Rome it may bee truly said that Bishops are made at Rome only because they are not taken to be fully and absolutely Bishops till they be confirmed there Which confirmation is not for vnity and order as M. Bishop pretendeth but for extortion and couetousnesse the Pope being wont to make infinite aduantage and profit to himselfe thereby neither is it giuen by the supreme head vnder Christ as he stileth the Pope but by a Nimrod and proud vsurper ouer the Church of Christ W. BISHOP §. 4. THe fourth point of the comparison is most absurd for the Donatists were so farre from thinking them Catholikes that kept communion with the Church of Cartenna that they detested and abhorred their company as Schismatikes Neither doe we call any men Catholikes for keeping communion with the Church of Rome if it be taken for that particular Church which is contayned within the walles of Rome but because that communicating with that Church in faith and religion they doe communicate with all other of the same faith which are spred all the world ouer R. ABBOT I Said the Donatists I should haue said the Rogatists who were but one part of the Donatisls as I haue before obserued the Rogatists I say would be taken to be Catholikes for keeping communion with the Church of Cartenna and euen so will the Papists be accounted Catholikes for keeping communion with the Church of Rome For the Rogatists expounding the word Catholike of integrity and perfection of faith as before we haue seene and affirming a Aug. Epist 48. Persuadere
conaris solos remansisse Rogatistas qui Catholici rectè appellandi sant c. Et vos esse solos in quibus fidem inuâ—niat filius hominis cum venerat themselues only to be Catholikes and that with them only Christ at his comming should finde faith left it as consequent that none could bee called Catholikes but by communicating and ioyning with them Now they did but apply to their Schisme at Cartenna those thinges which the Donatists in common held concerning their Church in Africa who said of themselues that b Collat. Carthag 3. cap. 22. Apud nos est vera Catholica with them only was the true Catholike Church c August de vnit â—ccles c. 13. Velut pro se commemorant quod ait Dominus Filius hominis veniens putas inueniet fidem in terra that with them only Christ should finde faith whence it should remaine that in their communion only men were to beare the name of Catholikes Now whether we looke to the Rogatists for Cartenna or to the Donatists for Africa the Papists are like them both who pleade the same for their Roman Church that they did for the other two that men are Catholikes for keeping vnity of faith and agreement therewith But M. Bishop telleth vs that they doe not call men Catholikes for keeping communion with the Church of Rome if it be taken for that particular Church which is contayned within the walls of Rome Where we see how true it is which Optatus saith that d Optat. lib. 2. Memoriam custodem oportet habere mendacem a lyar needeth to haue a good holding memory for he himselfe a little before speaking of that particular Roman Church to which he attributeth the priuiledges of stability in faith and superiority in gouernement aboue all other Churches hath told vs that St. Hierome e Part. 1. § 2. affirmeth men to become Catholikes by holding the Roman faith and that Tertullian Epiphanius Optatus and Austin doe proue their Churches to be Catholike and themselues to be Catholikes by declaring that they doe communicate with the Church of Rome and did condemne their aduersaries to be Schismatikes and Heretikes because they did not communicate with that Church If it bee true which hee hath told vs thus before that men become Catholikes by communicating with that particular Roman Church why doth he here tell vs the contrary that they doe not call men Catholikes for that cause The reason is because he speaketh no otherwise then as Optatus obiecteth to Parmenian the Donatist f Optat. lib. 1. Omnis pro tempore nihil pro veritate All for the time and present shift and nothing for the truth Well let vs heare what it is for which men with them are called Catholikes Because that communicating with that Church the particular Roman Church in faith and religion they doe communicate with all other of the same faith which are spred all the world ouer So then men are not g Aug. Breuic Collat. cum Donat l. 3. c. 2. Quia communicant Ecclesiae toto orbe di 〈…〉 Catholâ—ci meritò sunt vocantur Catholikes now as of old because they communicate with the Church dispersed ouer the whole world but because in the communion of the Church of Rome they coÌ„municate with the Church of the whole world But what if the Church of the whole world doe not hold communion with the Church of Rome as when the East and West Churches haue beene diuided and when Arianisme had ouerflowed in a manner the whole world whence was the name of Catholikes to be taken then Yea to speake of later times before the Portugals and Spaniards had gotten the Indies or discouered the new world and before Ignatius Loâ—ola had hatched his cockatrices broode which braggeth of so great conuersions there attayned vnto when neither the Greeke Churches in Europe receiued the Roman faith and out of Europe scant any Church at all how could it then be said that men were called Catholikes for that in communicating with the Church of Rome they communicated with the Church spred ouer all the world And sith they say that all other Churches may erre and only the Church of Rome hath the priuiledge of perpetuall truth put case that all other Churches doe erre how shall the name of Catholikes be continued but only for holding correspondence with the particular Church of Rome Yea how is it that he seeth not that he meerely circumuenteth and ouerthroweth himselfe For if a man be a Catholike for coÌ„municating with the Church of the whole world and it be by communicating with the particular Church of Rome that he communicate with the Church of the whole world then it is by communicating with the particular Church of Rome that the name of a Catholike doth belong vnto him To be short M. Bishops former acknowledgement iustifieth the resemblance as I haue set it downe and yet the Donatists if they could haue had their way would neuer haue doubted to say of their Church as M. Bishop doth here of his that men should be called Catholikes not for communicating with their African Church as it was contayned only within the bounds of Africa but for that in communicating with that Church they communicated with all other of the same faith spred wheresoeuer in the world Neither could the one nor can the other assume to themselues that they were or are spred ouer the whole world and therefore neither could the one nor can the other take vpon them to be Catholikes but only each for communion with their owne Church W. BISHOP §. 5. FInally the fift is as false as the fourth and in the same sort to be confuted True it is that the Donatists thought that none could be saued out of their congregation which is almost a common position of euery sect and heresie but most sure it is that there is no saluation out of the true Church of Christ no more then was out of the Arke of Noe in the generall deluge wherefore whosoeuer doth not communicate with the Church of Rome which is the chiefe member thereof in society of Faith and Sacraments is out of the state of grace and saluation according to that of S. Hierome to Pope Damasus I following no chiefe but Christ ioyne my selfe to Epistola 7. tit 2. the communion of Peters chaire vpon that Rocke I know the Church to be built whosoeuer doth eate the Paschal Lambe out of this house he is prophane he that is not found within the Arke of Noe shall perish c. where there is much more to this purpose R. ABBOT THe Rogatists as touching their Church of Cartenna and the Donatists as touching their Church of Africa were of minde that howsoeuer a man beleeued he could not be saued vnlesse he did communicate with their Church This M. Bishop acknowledgeth to be true and if this be true what hindereth but that the resemblance standeth good The Papists
is properly theirs is of farre latter time and though they had beene then yet had beene persecuted only for that profession of Christ which is common both to vs and them The Donatists alleaged that p Aug. cont Epist GaudeÌ„t l. 2. c. 30. Per iustitiam non veraÌ„ sed vestram ad Imperatorum curam pertinere cause huiusmodi non deberent Emperours and Princes had nothing to doe in Church matters And q Idem Epist 48. Vos quibus crimen videtur de inimicis communionis nostra Christiono Imperatori aliquid conqâ—eri held it for a great fault in the Catholike Bishops to complaine to the Emperour of them r Optat. lib. 3. Quid est Imperatori cum Ecclesia What hath the Emperour to doe with the Church saith their Pope Donatus and so his followers Å¿ Aug. in psal 57. Quid nobis Regibus inquiunt Quid nobis Imperateribus What haue we to doe with Kings what haue Emperours to doe with vs for the teaching of the people of Israel t Idem cont Gaudent Epist l. 2. c. 26. Ad docenduÌ„ populum Israel omnipotens Deus Prophetis pr 〈…〉 ium dedit non Regibus imperauit Saluator ammarum Dominus Christus â—d insi 〈…〉 dam fidem piscatores non milites misit saith Gaudentius God gaue charge to Prophets and not to Kings and our Lord Christ the Sauiour of soules sent Fishermen not Souldiers for the planting of the faith thus vpbraiding the Emperours for condemning their Schisme and for vsing power and force of armes for repressing the infinite rage of their madde-brained Circumcellions Thus they say to Marcellinus the Tribune whom the Emperour had appointed to be Iudge in the conference at Carthage u Capit. gest collat Caâ—â—hag 3. c. 295. Si Christus non es cur de Sacerdâ—tibus iudicas Hoc iudicium Christo seruandum est If thou bee not Christ why doest thou iudge of Priests this iudgement must be reserued for Christ And another of them that x Aug. Epist 162. Non debuit Episcopus Proconsulari iudicio purgari a Bishop should not haue his purgation at a Lieutenants iudgement and therefore Donatus their Patriarch writeth contemptuously to Gregory one of the Emperours Officers y Optat. lib. 3. Adquem sic scribere minimè dubitauit Gregori macula Senatus dedecus Praefectorum caetera talia Gregory the blot of the Senate the disgrace of Lieutenants with other termes of the same kinde as Optatus hath reported Of the same humour are the Papists who make the Prince z Dist 96 Si Imperator Filius est non Praesul Ecclesia quod adreligionem coÌ„petit discere ei conuenit non docere c. Ad Sacerdotes Deê° voluit quae Ecclesiae disponenda sunt pertinere non ad seouli Potestates c. Imperatores Christiani subdere debâ—nt executiones suaâ— Ecclesiasticis Praesulibus non praeferre a sonne only and not a Gouernour of the Church who must learne and not teach what appertayneth to religion because God would haue Church matters to belong to Priests not to the secular powers and Christian Emperours are to submit their executions to the rulers of the Church Therefore they hold the Commissioners and Officers of Princes to bee incompetent Iudges in their causes they carry themselues contemptuously and despightfully towardes them they thinke it lawfull by equiuocations and mentall reseruations to abuse them because they will not acknowledge any subiection to them The Donatists a Aug. Epist 48. Multis adituÌ„ intrandi obserebaÌ„t rumores maledicoruÌ„ qui nescio quid aliud nos in Altare Deiponere iactirabaâ—t by false rumours discouraged and terrified men from comming to Church and amongst other thinges gaue out of the Catholike Bishops that some of them b Optat. l. 3. 7. Dicebatur venturos Pâ—ulum Macarium qui interessent Sacrificio vt cum Altaria solenitèr aptarentur profeâ—rent illic imaginem quam primò in Altare ponerent sic Sacrificium offerretur Hoc cùm acciperent aures percussi sunt animi c. vt omnis qui hoc audierat diceret Qui degustat de sacro gustat at the time of the celebration of the Sacrament did set an Image vpon the Altar or Communion table whereat the minds of men were greatly moued and euery one said He that tasteth thereof tasteth of a prophane thing so contrary was it holden to religion then which c Of Images sect 9. M. Bishop approueth now to set Images vpon the Altar But in this also the Papists are their followers who in the like sort deuise rumours and tales of our diuine Seruice and put strange conceipts thereof into the minds of men that without cause they may abhorre to haue any communion with vs. The Donatists alleaged their d August Epist 162. Prolata sunt à partibus vestris gesta quaedam quibuâ— recitatum est c. Temerarium Concilium quamlibet numerosissimum owne Councels assembled by their owne authority and managed wholly by themselues for defence of their cause both against the e IdeÌ„ in psal 57. Lectum est Concilium Bagaitanum vbi damnati sunt Maximianistae Et coÌ„t lit Petil. l 2. c. 43. Plenarij CoÌ„cilij vestâ—i ore damnasâ—is Maximinianists their owne Schismatikes against the Bishops and Pastors of the Catholike Church Euen so doe the Papists alleage against vs their owne partiall conuenticles wherein they themselues haue been both accusers witnesses and iudges and wherein none hath beene suffered to sit but only such as haue first been sworne solemnly to the Pope The Donatists f Aug. Epist 137. Non habendo in causa sua diuâ—sionis quod defendant non nisi hominuÌ„ crimina colligere affectant â—aipsa plura falsissimè iactant vt quia ipsam diuiâ—a Scripturae veritatem c. criminari obscurare non possunt homines per quos pradicatur adducaÌ„t in odâ—uÌ„ not knowing how sufficieÌ„tly to make good their cause and rent from the Church by argument and reason sought to make themselues the more plausible by deuising and publishing crimes and slanders against them who in the behalfe of the Church were aduersaries to them that men disliking the persons of men might consequently thinke the worse of the truth of God that was maintained and defended by them In the same steps the Papists walke with whom nothing is more common in all their bookes then to labour by strange odious imputations to blemish the names of Luther Caluin Beza and all other by whom the gospell of Christ hath beene specially defended yea generally of the Bishops and Ministers of our Church that bringing men into hatred and detestation of the men they may cause them to like the worse of the faith and religion which they did or doe teach g Collat. Cartag 3. c. 30. Dâ—natistâ—â— nos appellaÌ„dos esse credunt cum si nominum paternorum
Catholike Church from the errour of perfidiousnesse the obseruance or obedience almost of the whole world ioyned to his name and honour in which manner â—armenian also though he held the Church d Optat. lib. 2. Eam tu apud â—os solos esse dixisti to be with them only yet pretended e Ibid. post Offerre vos dicitis pro vna Ecclesia quae sit in totâ— terrarum orbe dissusa to offer or pray for one Church which is dispersed ouer the whole world Euen so the Papists also albeit they know that it is but a small part of the world wherein the communion of the Bishop and Church of Rome is accepted or acknowledged yet take pleasure to babble and prate as if the Popes triple crowne were so wide as to compasse the whole earth and his scepter so long as to reach to the worlds end Thus much then M. Bishop hath gained by being angry at my comparing the Papists to the Donatists that whereas I mentioned but fiue resemblances before I haue now added twelue more and so like are they in all these that I doubt not but by obseruation they may be found like in many moe As for the retortion of this comparison which he hath vsed in his answere to my Epistle Dedicatory as it is wholly forced and violent in it selfe so it argueth only malice and folly in him I will set downe the branches of the Donatists heresie as he hath noted them and adde the application that he hath made of euery of them First he f Reproofe pag. 42. saith they held that the true Church of Christ was perished all the world ouer sauing in some coastes of Africa where their doctrine was currant Well and what is that to vs The Protestants saith he teach euen as they did that Christs visible Church was perished for nine hundred yeares at the least all the world ouer and is now wholly decayed in all other parts of the world sauing where their doctrine is embraced and this he saith was the maine point of the Donatists heresie To shew why he nameth the visible Church he putteth in a parenthesis thus for the inuisible Church the Donatists held could not perish as St. Austin witnesseth in Psal 101. Which is a very lie neither is there any thing to be found in St. Austin to that effect But as touching the visible Church where doe the Protestants hold or affirme that it was or is perished in that sort as he saith Why doth he not cite vs some authour of this assertion Well whether we say so or not it skilleth not g Bellarm. de notis Eccles c. 9. Ecclesiam visibilem a multis seculis perijsse nunc solum esse in septentrionalibus partibus vbi ipsi sunt doceâ—t omnes Bellarmine hath told him that we all say so and that is enough for him Yet that we doe not all say so M. Bishop may sufficiently vnderstand by that that hath beene before handled at large as touching this point in the answere h Sect. 17. to the Preface to his second part whither I referre the Reader for further satisfaction hereof Here I briefly answere him that we hold in all that time wherof he speaketh one only Catholike church whereof the Church of England was a part and the Church of Rome another part and the Greeke Church another part and so the rest throughout the whole world The Church in these parts was in that time blemished with many corruptions and errours whilest first the Teachers in steede of i 1. Cor. 3. 18. siluer and gold and pearle built hay and straw and stubble vpon the foundation and secondly the Pastors more and more k Ierem. 10. 21. became beasts as the Prophet saith and sought not the Lord nor had any vnderstanding to teach Gods law by meanes whereof ignorance encreased and of ignorance grew superstition and one idolatry begat another till the whole face of the Church was berayed with the filth thereof l Mat. 24. 15. the abhomination of desolation standing in the holy place and the man of sinne tyraÌ„nizing ouer the Church and giuing strength to all abuse and corruption for his owne gaine So grosse were the enormities and superstitions which in this time had growen into the Church as that the great Rabbines of the Church of Rome could not for shame but in some part acknowledge the same and tooke vpon them to correct sundry things m Trident. CoÌ„cil sess 22. de Missa celebr Quae siue temporum vitio siue hominum incuria improbitate irrepserunt in Missam ipsam which either by the corruption of times or by the carelesnesse and naughtinesse of men were crept into the very Masse And thus the Pope himselfe confessed concerning their Offices and Primers that n Offic. Beatae Mariae per Pium V. in Summar constitut indulgent c. Vanis superstitionum erroribus alia ferè omnia huiusmodi officia etiam Latino sermone referta esse deprehensum fuit c. Credant ijsdeâ— alijs â—fficijs multas sub falsis confictis sanctorum nominiê° confictâ—â— orationes fuisse insertas they were found to be stuffed with vaine errours of superstitions and that many counterfaite praiers were inserted into them vnder false and counterfaite names of Saints Of these errours and superstitions they reformed what they list and purged their bookes and Seruice of many things that were amisse and what will any man say hereupon that they became another Church We proceeded further and voided the Church of the rest of those abhominations which ignorance and errour had brought in which they were not willing to haue medled with because the same were gainfull to them and shall we be said hereupon to deny that there was any visible Church before and to beginne a new Church No we say that the Church hath continued still from the time that it was first planted we affirme it to haue been the house of God the garden and vineyard of the Lord but we say that the husbandmen had long dealt wickedly and vnfaithfully in the vsage of it they drest not the Lords vine but suffered it to grow wild they let this garden be ouergrowen with briars and weedes and Foxes and Swine had liberty to tread it downe and to destroy it All that we haue done hath beene but to loppe and prune the vine to dresse and water the garden that lay wast to plucke vp the weedes and thornes to driue out the noysome beasts and to repaire the fence that they may be kept out Therefore we doe not take vpon vs to be another Church but the same Church reformed neither haue we gone about to bring in a new religion but only to reforme that which they call the old retaining still the same Scriptures which they acknowledged the same articles of faith the same Sacraments of Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord the same forme of diuine Seruice saue
only that we haue cut off what their superstition had brought in contrary to the word of God and practise of the first Church Many goodly stones and pillars of Christian doctrine there were remayning amongst them which we continue and acknowledge according to the word of Christ and whereby we cannot doubt but that in those times of darkenesse many found meanes to see the light of God and were thereby directed vnto eternall life Farre therefore are we from Donatisme who neither affirme the perishing of the Church in any part of the world no not in Rome it selfe nor tie it to any one place as the Papists doe to Rome nor hang it vpon the necke of any one man as they doe vppon the Popes necke but acknowledge all nations and all men indifferently accepted with God accordingly as in spirit and truth they faithfully worship him The second point of the Donatists heresie he nameth this that they rebaptized Catholikes that fell into their sect His application is Though all the Protestants doe not rebaptize yet one part of them to wit the Anabaptists doe vse it But his foolery in that deserueth no answere it being knowen to himselfe that the Anabaptists are exploded and detested vniuersally of all Protestant Churches The Anabaptists shall be rather theirs then ours And whereas he diuideth the Protestants into Lutherans Sacramentaries and Anabaptists as answerable to the Donatists Rogatists and Maximianists he should rather haue made the like diuision of Papists into Anabaptists Secularists and Iesuitists the Anabaptists answering the Rogatists in challenging the Church from the rest of the body of their Schisme only to themselues the Secularists and Iesuitists fully resembling the Donatists and Maximianists each diuided for a time by mortall quarrell amongst themselues but content after a while as men of one Church and religion to bee reconciled againe The third point that he mentioneth is this They held not the faith of the blessed Trinity entire and whole but some of them taught like Arians the sonne to be lesse then the father though as St. Austin noteth this was not marked of their followers This he applyeth to vs in this sort Thirdly diuers of their principall teachers as Melanchton Caluin and many others doe corrupt the sound doctrine of the most sacred Trinity as I haue shewed saith he in the Preface of the Reformation of a deformed Catholike though the common sort of them doe not greatly obserue it In which third point he very wilfully belyeth both St. Austin and the Donatists and vs. For St. Austin doth not say of the Donatists but only of a second Donatus who was a follower of the former that o August ad Quodvult haeres 69. Apparet cum etiam non Catholicam de Trinitate babuisse sententiam c. Verùm in hunc quem de Trinitate habuit â—ius errorem Donatistarum multitudo intenta noÌ„ fuit nec facilè in eis quisquam qui hoc illâ— sensisse nouerit inuenitur he had an vncatholike opinion of the Trinity which the Donatists were so farre from approuing as that he saith there was scant any one found amongst them that knew that hee thought so so that to him only it is referred which St. Austin saith in his Epistle p Idem Epist 50. Si aliqui ipsorum â—â—â—orem filium dixerunt esse quà m pater est â—iusdem tamen substantiâ— non negarunt If any of them haue said that the sonne is lesse then the Father yet they haue not denyed him to be of the same substance And indeede St. Austin though liuing amongst them and hauing perfect knowledge of them yet neuer vpbraideth them with this heresie and therefore M. Bishop doth wrong both to them in laying this heresie to them and to St. Austin in making him the witnesse thereof Neither shall it helpe him that Theodoret chargeth them therewith who as it plainly appeareth by his relation neuer knew what their heresie was and being deceiued perhaps by the writings of that Donatus reporteth that as common to them all which St. Austin of his knowledge noteth to haue beene proper to him only As for that he chargeth Melancthon Caluin and other our principall teachers with corrupting the doctrine of the holy Trinity how lewdly and falsly he dealeth therein q Answere to the Preface of the second part of Doct. Bishops Reformation sect 6. 7. I haue fully declared in answere of the Preface where he saith he hath shewed the same The fourth matter of the Donatists by him noted is their being soone diuided into three sects whereof he saith nothing but what is before touched Only he addeth There were also amongst them many frantike furious fellowes called Circumcellions who rouing vp and downe committed many outrages c But what is this to the Protestants Forsooth for plucking downe of Churches abusing the most blessed Sacrament holy Oiles and all holy ornaments that belonged to Catholikes Churches the Protestants are not behinde but goe farre beyond the Donatists But this I let passe as another part of his idle babling only telling him that to fit the example of the Circumcellions he should rather haue looked to those memorable acts that haue beene done by the Leaguers and Iesuits and other madde-braines of their imployment in France Germanie Poland and in all places almost of Christendome where they haue gotten any strength whereof goodly stories might be here set downe if it were pertineÌ„t to the maine point that we haue now in hand In the last thing which he noteth of the Donatists he specially sheweth his great abundance of little wit the matter whereto he alludeth being such as whence I might most iustly haue taken yet a further resemblance betwixt the Donatists and them Finally saith he the Donatists deuised a new kinde of Psalmes to be sung before their diuine Seruice and Sermons And what the Protestants Forsooth they haue also compounded and framed a new kinde of Psalmes saith he called Geneua Psalmes to be sung before their Sermons A new kinde of Psalmes say you M. Bishop What doe not you know that those Geneua psalmes as you call them are only the Psalmes of Dauid and other Prophets and holy Men translated into English Meter and doe they seeme to you a new kinde of Psalmes They were turned into Meter and Verse and fitted with plaine and easie notes and tunes to serue for popular and common vse of Christian exercise and edification both in our Churches and priuate houses that we may answere the exhortation of the Apostle r Col. 3. 16. Let the word of Christ dwell plentifully in you in all wisedome teaching and admonishing your selues or one another in Psalmes and Hymnes and spirituall Songs singing with a grace in your hearts vnto the Lord. Now marke I pray thee gentle Reader what St. Austin faith hereof in the place whence M. Bishop would fetch a resemblance betwixt the Donatists and vs. Of Å¿ Aug. Epist 119. cap. 18. De
Hymnis Psalmis canendis ipsius Domini Apostolorum habemus documenta praecepta exeÌ„pla De hac re tam vtili ad mouendum piè animuÌ„ accendendum diuinae lectionis affectum varia consuetudo est c. Donatista nos reprehenduÌ„t quòd sobriè psallamus in Ecclâ—sia diuina cantica ProphetaruÌ„ cum ipsi ebrietates suas ad canticum PsalmoruÌ„ humano ingenio compositorum quasi tubas exhortation is inslaÌ„ment Quando autem non est tempus cum in Ecclesia fratres congregantur Sancta cantandi nisi cum legitur aut disputatur aut antiâ—â—ites clara voce deprecantur aut communis oratio voce Diaconi indicitur singing Hymnes and Psalmes we haue lessons and examples and precepts of the Lord himselfe and his Apostles It is a thing profitable to stirre vp the minde to piety and to kindle deuotion and affection towards the lessons that are read from God Of the Donatists contrarywise he saith The Donatists reprehend vs for that we soberly sing in the Church the holy songs of the Prophets whereas they by singing of songs deuised by men as it were by trumpets of encouragement doe inflame and prouoke themselues to drinking vntill they be drunke Against this he saith When is it out of time when the brethren are gathered together in the Church to sing Psalmes but when there is reading or preaching of when the Ministers doe pray with loud voice or when by the voice of the Deacon warning is giuen of common prayer That the Donatists vsed those songs in the Church or before their Seruice and Sermons St. Austin saith not that is M. Bishops lye his wordes import that as their t August coÌ„t lit Petil. l. 1. c. 24. Mitto prophanas bacchationâ—s â—briâ—tâ—tuÌ„ drunken meetings and feastings which elsewhere he obiecteth to them they vsed such songs as the manner is of carnall prophane men at their meetings and merry-makings by vaine and wanton and lewd songs to cheare and sport themselues But out of St. Austins words it is easie to be gathered whether of vs in this behalfe are more like the Donatists either we that retaine the same religious custome of singing Psalmes which St. Austin commendeth and not he only but also Leo Bishop of Rome witnesseth that u Leo de collect ser 4. Psalmi Dauidici per vniuersalem Ecclesiam cum omni pietate cantantur the whole Catholike Church with all deuotion then vsed or the Papists who reproue vs for the same and haue wholly abandoned it both out of their Churches and houses and can better brooke to solace themselues with secular and prophane rimes and sonnets yea with filthy and vncleane ribawdries insomuch that some of their owne as touching their Seruice haue complained that x Cornel. Agrip de vanit scient cap. 18. Hodie cum Missa ipsius Canone obscâ—nâ— cantiunculae pares vices habènt obscene and filthy songs had their course and turne therein as well as the Canon of the Masse Very vnfortunately therefore hath M. Bishop entred into the retorting of this comparison nothing fitteth nothing serueth his turne his ball reboundeth vpon himselfe but neither in doctrine nor in manners can hee truly alleage any thing reproueable in the Donatists that can be fastened vppon vs. W. BISHOP §. 6. TO conclude this passage seing that M. Abbot went about to proue the Church of Rome to be like that of the Donatists by no one sound argument but by meere fabling and lying he must looke vnlesse he repent to haue his part with all lyars in the poole burning with Apocal. 21. v. 8. fire and brimstone And if it please the Reader to heare at what great square the Donatists were with the Church of Rome to which M. Abbot doth so often resemble them I will briefly shew it out of the best records of that time S. Augustine speaketh thus to the Donatist Petilian What hath the Church or Sea of Rome Lib. 2. cont Peâ—il cap. 51. done to thee in which Peter did sit and now sitteth Anastasius why doest thou cal the Apostolical chaire the chaire of pestilence See how friendly the Donatists saluted the Church of Rome stiling it the chaire of pestilence Optatus Bishop of Mileuitan saith thus Whence Lib. 2. cont Parmeni is it that you Donatists contend to vsurpe vnto you the keyes of the Kingdome and that you wage battaile against the chaire of Peter presumptuously and with sacrilegious audacity If they waged battaile against the Church of Rome so cruelly surely there was no agreement betweene them Wherefore as the Catholikes of Africa then so they that were taken into the communion of the Church of Rome cared little for the Donatists as witnesseth S. Augustine saying of Cecilianus Bishop of Carthage He neede not to care for the multitude August Epistola 162. of his conspiring enimies the Donatists when he saw himselfe by communicatory letters ioyned with the Roman Church in which alwaies the principality of the Apostolicall chaire flourished c. So we at this time neede as little to care for the bitter reproches and deceitfull arguments of the Protestants so we stand stable and firme in the like society of faith and religion with the same Church of Rome R. ABBOT I Wish M. Bishop to take heede lest the doome which he pronounceth vpon me be returned vpon himselfe by the sentence of the Gospell a Luke 19. 22. Out of thine owne mouth will I iudge thee thou euill seruant Mistake I did in a circumstance but lye I did not because b Mentiri est contra mentem ire to lye is to goe against a mans owne minde and knowledge which it is plaine I did not for that my errour was disaduantage to my selfe in that I alleaged the Papists to be like the Donatists only whereas by more perfect relation they are found to be like both Rogatists and Donatists But now to make the matter the more goodly for himselfe he for conclusion notably playeth the Skoggin and most grosly deludeth the simple Reader that hath not discretion to espie his fraude Forsooth he will shew at what great square the Donatists were with the Church of Rome But trouble not your selfe M. Bishop about that matter wee know it and will acknowledge it alwaies as farre as you only we desire to know what that maketh to the matter here in hand What because the Donatists in the time of Optatus and Austin were at great square with the Church of Rome doth it follow that there can be no cause now to compare the Papists to the Donatists When M. Bishop was clapt vp in prison at Rome there was great enmity betwixt the Seculars and Iesuits and doth it therefore follow that they are not friends now What is it M. Bishop but your legerdemaine to pretend a comparison made by me betwixt the Donatists and the Church of Rome that was of old when as my comparison concerneth only Romanists
and Papists that now are who are farre departed from that way wherein that Church of old did walke Why doe you in this case alleage to vs Optatus and Austin to disproue this resemblance as if they were able so long before hand to tell vs that the Papists now in the points alleaged are not like the Donatists The Donatists of old were at square with the Church of Rome for resisting their claime of the propriety of the Church neither doe we doubt but that if they were now in being the Church of Rome would be at square with them for challenging that to Africa which they hold properly to belong to Rome but this squaring on the one side or the other hindereth not but that Papists now in their kinde are like to Donatists in their kinde each tying the Catholike Church respectiuely to their owne place and faction wherein the condemning of the Donatists of old by the Church of Rome for so tying it to Africa is an instruction to vs to condemne the Papists now for doing the like to Rome But M. Bishops purpose of cosenage doth more liuely appeare in the first citation which he here bringeth out of Austin where purposely he omitteth a part of the sentence whereby the Reader should perceiue that it maketh nothing for his purpose To Pâ—tilian the Donatist condemning all Churches saue their owne he saith c Aug. cont lit Petil. l. â— c. 51. Cathedra tibi quid fecit Ecclesiae Romana in qua Petrus sedit in qua â—odiâ— Anastasius sedet vel Ecclesiae Hierâ—sâ—lymitana in qua Iacobus sedit in qua bodie Joannes sidet quibus nos in Catholica vnitate connectimur à quibus vâ—s nefariâ— furâ—re separastis Quare appellas Cathedram pestilentia Cathedram Apostolicam What hath the chaire of the Church of Rome done to thee wherein Peter sate and wherein at this day Anastasius sitteth or the chaire of the Church of Ierusalem wherein Iames sate and in which Iohn at this day sitteth to which we are ioyned in Catholike vnity and from which you haue seuered your selues by wicked fury Why doe you call the Apostolike chaire the chaire of pestilence Now what doe these wordes make more for the Church of Rome then for the Church of Ierusalem The Donatists were then at square with the Church of Ierusalem and yet that hindereth not M. Bishop will confesse but that the Church of Ierusalem may be now Schismaticall and the Donatists were then at square with the Church of Rome what is there here to hinder but that the Church of Rome may be now Schismaticall as the Donatists were then The Church of Ierusalem is by St. Austin termed an Apostolike chaire or Sea as all the Churches planted by the Apostles are by him stiled d Aug. Epist 162. Possent Apostolicarum Ecclesiarum iudiciâ— causam suam integraÌ„ reseruare Apostolike Churches as well as the Church of Rome The Church of Ierusalem M. Bishop will not deny both might be and hath beene since St. Austins time a chaire of pestilence And doth St. Austin say any thing there to let but that the Church of Rome also may be since become the chaire of pestilence though it were then the chaire of vnity and peace Yea what he saith here concerning the Churches of Rome and Ierusalem the same he saith elsewhere of other Churches also e Ibid. Quid tibi fecit 6 pars Donati quid tibi fecit Ecclesia Corinthiorum Quod autem de ista dicâ— de omnibus â—aâ—â—bus tam longè positiâ— intelligi vâ—lâ— quid vobis fecerunt c. O yee Donatists what what I say hath the Church of the Corinthians done to you What I say of it I would haue to be vnderstood of all such and as farre distant Churches what haue they done vnto you c. with all which the Donatists were at as great square as they were with the Church of Rome and yet M. Bishop will not yeeld to any of them any prorogatiue thereby But all mention of the Church of Ierusalem and the rest he thought it behouefull for him to suppresse because if he had set it downe he knew well that the Reader would easily see that in all this great shew hee had said nothing And by the premises it appeareth that he hath said as little in producing the wordes of Optatus for be it that the Donatists did then cruelly wage battell against the Church of Rome and there were no agreement betwixt them what is that to that that I say concerning the Church of Rome now what hindereth that I say still but that there may be now a iust resemblance betwixt the Papists and the Donatists His conclusion therefore is ridiculous that because Austin saith that Cecilianus needed not to care for the Donatists so long as he saw himselfe ioyned with the church of Rome therefore they neede not to care so long as they stand in the like society of faith and religion with the same Church of Rome For seeing the Church of Rome is not the same now that it was then as in the processe of this booke God willing shall plainly appeare there may be iust cause in many things now to forsake the communion of the church of Rome though it were piety and religion to hold it then But it is not to be omitted how falsly he dealeth here againe in alleaging the wordes of Austin as if he spake of being ioyned with the Church of Rome only whereas he nameth other Churches as well as the Church of Rome f Aug. Epist 162. Qui posset non curare conspirantem multitudinem inimicorum cùm se â—ideret Romanâ— Ecclesiae in qua semper Apostolicâ— Cathedâ—â— viguit principatus câ—teris terris vnde Euangelium ad ipsam Africam venit per communicateâ—â— as literas esse coniunctum He needed not care saith he for the conspiring multitude of his enemies when he saw himselfe ioyned by communicatory letters both to the Church of Rome where the principality or chiefty of the Apostolike chaire hath alwaies flourished and to other nations whence the Gospell came into Africa What is here more for the communion of the Church of Rome then for the communion of other Churches Why doth M. Bishop thus deceiptfully appropriate to one that which St. Austin maketh to concerne many Doe we finde it in St. Austins words which he pretendeth that it shall be alwaies an infallible rule of safety to hold communion with the Church of Rome He will say that there is there attributed a principality to the Church of Rome Be it so a principality of honour not of power as I haue g Chap. 1. §. 2. before made plaine by Austin himselfe but doth it follow that because the principality of the Apostolike chaire had flourished there till that time therefore it should be necessary or safe to communicate with that church for euer vntill the worlds end These are loose and
vaine collections meere mockeries of simple and credulous persons very vnfit to stablish and resolue the conscience of any sober or aduised man CHAP. III. That the name of Catholikes is abused by the Papists and is in their abuse a Donatisticall and hatefull name of faction and schisme ANSWERE TO THE EPISTLE THere was reason why Austin should be moued with the name of Catholike c. to Now as of this Catholike Church c. W. BISHOP §. 1. SAint Augustine indeede was so much moued with the name of Catholike that he alleageth Cont. Epist Fund c. 4. De vera Relig. c. 7. it to haue beene one principall cause which kept him in the lappe of the Church And elsewhere very often exhorteth all Christians To hold the communion of that Church which both is Catholike and knowne also by that very name not only to her owne followers but also to others And the selfe same reason alleaged by M. Abbot himselfe which caused that most holy wise and learned Father to esteeme so highly of that title Catholike is now of great force to perswade all reasonable men to make themselues members of the Roman Church for by ioyning in society of faith with the Church of Rome they shall communicate with the Church spred ouer the whole world because the faith and religion of the Church of Rome hath beene generally receiued all the world ouer as our aduersaries themselues doe confesse The name Catholike is by the Protestants Donatistically applied to their schismaticall congregation that neither are nor euer were scattered all the world ouer but be inclosed and confined within certaine Countries of Europe is the Donatists were within the bounds of Afrike Most sottishly then to vse his owne wordes doth M. Abbot affirme the name Catholike to be applyed by vs of the Roman religion vnto the particular Church of Rome when as we call all other Churches of what Countrey soeuer that with the Church of Rome keepe intirely the same faith Catholike And men of all other nations doe we call Catholikes as well as those who are Romans borne because they all beleeue and confesse the same one Catholike faith that is extended ouer all the world R. ABBOT THe name of the Catholike Church might iustly moue St. Austin to continue in the society thereof when vnder that name a August coÌ„t Epist Fundam cap. 4. Tenet ipsum Catholica nomen quod non sine causa inter tam multas hâ—rescs ista Ecclesia sola obtinuâ—t Catholike he saw the communion of a Church successiuely continued from the time of the Apostles throughout the world and that only communion euery where termed by that name There was reason for him to exhort men b Idem de vera relig cap. 7. Tenenda est eius Ecclesiae communicatio quae Catholica est Catholica nominatur non solum à suis verumetiam ab omnibus inimicis to hold communion with that Church which was thus Catholike or Vniuersall and so called both of the friends and of all the enimies thereof and thereby to be fortified against all hereticall distractions and separations as knowing that to draw them away from this communion should bee to draw them away from the Church of Christ The appellation of Catholikes according to the originall of it as I haue c Chap. 2. § 4. before noted importeth an interest holden by them that are so called in this vniuersall communion without renting themselues by heresie or schisme from the common society and fellowship of the Church In this only meaning is it rightly vsed and they are meere vsurpers of it who take it to themselues without this or in any other sense Now whereas M. Bishop according to that sense as he pretendeth telleth vs that that name is of great force to perswade all reasonable men to make themselues members of the Roman Church he is greatly deceiued himselfe and doth but seeke to deceiue others therein because they wholly faile in the ground of it the Church of Rome being neither Catholike indeede as St. Austin requireth nor so called by any other but only by it selfe Who is there in the world so madde as to call the Roman Church the Catholike Church but only they that are drunke by drinking of the same cup He saith that we confesse that the faith and religion of the Church of Rome hath beene receiued all the world ouer but that is both waies a lye because neither doe we confesse so much neither was it euer so And therefore whereas he saith that by ioyning in society of faith with the Church of Rome we shall communicate with the Church spred ouer the whole world hee againe abuseth his Reader there being at this day no Church in Asia or Africa that holdeth communion with the Church of Rome to say nothing of the Greeke Church and sundry other in Europe that doe detest the fellowship thereof I am not ignorant how they seeke to gull the world in this behalfe and what goodgeons they giue men by telling and writing tales from Rome of d Gentillâ—t in Exam. Concil Trident. Patriarches and Metropolitans of the Aegyptians the Assyrians the Armenians the Aethiopians and such other like comming to Rome to submit themselues and to be reconciled to the Pope these iests are now growen stale these suborned and counterfait Patriarkes haue beene discryed and were they not men absurdly impudent they would neuer practise the like cosenage againe And yet my friend e And. Eudoem adu R. Abbat Respon lib. 3. sect 6. Aegyptius Câ—phtorum Patriarcha à quâ— Aethiopia petit pracepta fidei ad communionem Catholicam nuper Clemente octauâ— Pontifice redijt Cacâ—daemon telleth vs in sadnesse of the Aegyptian Patriarch vpon whom all the Churches of Aethiopia depend his name is neither knowen to him nor me that now very lately in the time of Clement the eight he returned to the communion of their Catholike Church the wise man not considering that thereby he doth intimate vnto vs contrary to other fables and tales which they haue giuen out before that therefore before that time he was a stranger to them Thus by reason that these submissions and reconciliations are still to seeke and the world seeth no appearance nor effect of them they are euery while put to their shifts to deuise new rumours hereof and to stuffe the old coate of some Gibeonite with straw setting him vp vpon a poles end vnder the name of the Patriarch of some farre Countrey so to feede the humours and fancies of them that doe yeeld themselues content to be gulled and deluded by them But against this foolery the Catholike Bishops truly noted against the Donatists that f Collat. Carthag 1. cap. 55. Non in vnum aliquem terra locum ex alijs locis ad Deum gentes venturas esse praedictum est sed in ocis suis â—um adoraturas it was not foretold by the Prophets that the nations should
appertayneth be not according to the letter and in common speech called by that name Let him then vnderstand proportionably that the truth of the name of Catholikes belongeth not to the Romish faction who challenge to themselues as the Iewes did to haue gotten by succession the possession of the name and will be commonly so called but it belongeth to vs who though we vse not the word being growen to ill meaning by their abuse yet do maintayne one and the same truth with them who first were called by that name In a word as there is a double sense in the one so is there also in the other and I doe not so hoppe from one sense to another in the one but that I shew a iust â—orrespondence betwixt them both W. BISHOP §. 3. BVt and it please you the Protestants haue the kernell of the name Catholike and we but the shell Why doe they then so bitterly inueigh against it why are they not more willing to extoll and magnifie that renowmed title being of such ancient Nobility Twenty pound to a peny that what face soeuer he set on it yet in his heart he meruailously feareth the contrary himselfe If that faith and religion only be Catholike and Vniuersall as he acknowledgeth that hath euer beene and is also spread ouer all the world and shall continue to the worlds end then surely their religion cannot be Catholike euen by the vniforme confession of themselues who generally acknowledge that for nine hundred yeares togither the Papacy did so domineer all the world ouer that not a man of their religion was to be found in any corner of the world that durst peepe out his head to contradict it Could there be any Church of theirs then when there was not one Pastor and flocke of their religion though neuer so small in any one Countrey And euen now when their Gospell is at the hottest hath it spread it selfe all the world ouer is it receiued in Italie Spaine Greece Afrike or Asia or carried into the Indians nothing lesse They cannot then call themselues Catholikes after the sincere and ancient acceptation of that name which is as himselfe hath often repeated out of S. Augustine Quia communicant Ecclesiae to to or be diffusae Because they communicate in fellowship of faith with the Church spread ouer all the world They must therefore notwithstanding M. Abbots vaine bragges be content with the shell and leaue the kernell to vs who doe embrace the same faith that is dilated all Countries ouer yea they must be contented to walke in the foote-steps of their fore-fathers the Donatists euen according to M. Abbots explication and flie from the vniuersality of faith and communion of the Church spread all the world ouer vnto the perfection of their doctrine which is neuerthelesse more absurd and further from the true signification of the word Catholike then the Donatists shift was of fulnesse of Sacraments and obseruation of all Gods Commandements as hath beene already declared But let vs heare how clearely and substantially he will at length proue their Church to be Catholike R. ABBOT IT pleaseth vs very well M. Bishop that we haue the kernell of the name of Catholikes and in the meane time because your importunity so requireth we are content to leaue the shell to you The kernell serueth vs to feede vpon and it is very tastfull to vs but you haue berayed the shell and therefore we haue no care to meddle with it Our inueighing against it is no otherwise but in respect of your abuse let it be restored to his true vse and we shall be ready to extoll it and where it is so we doe so As for your wager M. Bishop of twenty pound to a peny you haue lost it and you know that you haue lost it because you see that I haue set no other face vpon the matter then by sufficient proofs I haue made good But here he taketh in hand to bereaue vs of the kernell because our faith and religion was neuer Catholike that is was neuer spred ouer the whole world Whereas I on the other side doe tell him that it is only our religion which appeareth to haue beene absolutely spred ouer all the word and none but ours For our religion is no more nor other then is contained in the Gospels and Epistles of the Apostles and because we know that the religion there set downe was spred ouer all the world therefore we cannot doubt but that our religion is that that was spred ouer all the world and though Apostasie hath ouershadowed it yet hath euer since continued in the world As for that which he alleageth to the contrary it is no vniforme confession of ours but a deformed lye of his owne We doe not acknowledge that for nine hundred yeares togither there was not a man of our religion to be found in the world The Papacy indeede did mightily domineer accordingly as it was foretold but yet it could neuer so preuaile to the extirpation of our religion but that euen in the middest of the Papacy it hath continued still yea thousands and hundred thousands as by their owne stories appeareth haue beene murthered and slaine for the profession thereof Yea in the very religion of Popery our religion hath continued for what is Popery but a doctrine compounded of our religion and their owne deuice Our religion hath serued them for a foundation whereupon to build not only their wood and hay and stubble but also the wild-fire and poison of their idolatries and damnable heresies which without the pretence and colour of our religion Christian eares would haue detested and abhorred but therefore dreaded them not because they saw them cloaked with shew of still retaining that which we professe They durst not deny those Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament which our religion receiueth but to serue their turne they added other bookes not inspired of God to be notwithstanding of like authority with those They acknowledged the Lords praier the articles of the Creede the ten Commandements which we receiue as principles of our religion but they frustrated them by a superstitious custome brought in of reciting them like a charme in an vnknowen tongue They haue neuer denyed the two Sacraments which we teach which were fast rooted in Christian profession but they haue added to them other fiue and made them vp seuen They vsed no other substantiall forme of Baptisme then we doe only they prophaned it with sundry polluted and corrupt ceremonies of humane deuice In their Masse and Sacrament of the Altar the ground of all is that that we doe according to the institution of Christ and example of the primitiue Church They bring bread and wine to the Lords table they sanctifie or consecrate the same with the words of Christ when and where they list they administer the same to the people and all this they take vpon them to doe in remembrance of the Passion Death and
from that imputation Well and what of that Marry Chrysostome and Hierome do argue saith he that euen so in the law of grace men infected with the soules leprosie are either to be bound and declared obstinate by the Priest if they will not repent or repenting and confessing the same are to be cleansed therefrom by the Priests absolution First Chrysostome in the place by him alleaged saith nothing either of confession or absolution but noting by occasion what grace is administred by Priests in baptisme that u Chrysost de Sacerdot lib. 3. Authores nobis sunt natiuitatis eius quam à Deo habemus c. atque adeò adoptionis eius qua nos per gratiam silij Dei sumus effecti Corporiâ— lepram purgare seu verius dicam haud purgare quidem sed purgatos probaâ—e Iudaeorum Sacerdotibus solis licebat c. At verò nostris Sacerdotibus non corporis lepram verum animae sordes non dico purgatas probare sed purgare prorsus concessum est they are as he speaketh authours of our new birth and of that adoption whereby we are made the sonnes of God he addeth further thereof thus Only the Priests of the Iewes might purge the leprosie of the body or so speake more truly not purge it but giue warrant of them that were purged but to our Priests it is granted I will not say to approue such as are purged but to purge not the leprosie of the body but the vncleannesse of the soule This the Priest doth sacramentally and ministerially in baptisme when he x Acts 2. 38. baptizeth in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ to the remission of sinnes and what is this to M. Bishops turne As little is there in the words of Hierome who saith that y Hieron in Mat. c. 16. Quomodo ibi Sacerdoâ— facit leprosum mundâ— vel immundum non quò Sacerdotes leprosos faciant immundos sed quò habeant notitiam leprosi vel non leprosi possint discernere qui mundus quiuè immundus fit sic hic alligat vel soluit Episcopus Presbyter noÌ„â—os qui insontes sunt vel nâ—xij sed pro â—fficio suo cum peccatorum audierit varietates scit qui ligandus sit qui soluendus as the Priest in Moses law did make the leaper cleane or vncleane not for that he did so indeede but only tooke notice who was a leaper and who was not and did discerne betwixt the cleanâ— and the vncleane so here the Bishop or Priest doth binde or loose not binde them which are innocent or loose the guilty but when according to his office he heareth the variety of sinnes he knoweth who is to be bound and who to be loosed We see here the office and duty of the Priest to discerne betwixt man and man to acquit the innocent to bind the guilty by the publike censure of the Church to decide who is to be holden for loosed with God who for bound all which belong to the outward and publike discipline and gouernement of the Church but as for auricular confession or priuate absolution and pâ—nance thereto appertayning there is not so much as one word spoken thereof It is plainly here to be seene why M. Bishop quoted the authours only but did not set downe their wordes because the Reader would haue discerned his folly that would set downe such impertinent stuffe nothing at all concerning the point in hand Yet he hopeth that he hath said that that may suffice for answere to my particulars whereas he hath brought no tollerable proofe or probability for any one particular and therefore leaueth vs to resolue that none of those points of religion by me mentioned were euer knowen to the old Fathers W. BISHOP §. 4. I Might easily adde how the Sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ vnder the formes of bread and wine were both prefigured by Melchisedechs Host in bread and Genes 14. wine and fore-told by the Prophet Malachy and what a Malach. 1. liuely type Manna that Angelicall and delicate foode was of Christs body in the Sacrament And how the supreme authority of one headouer all the whole Church and that to belong to a Bishop and not to the lay Magistrate was not obscurely shadowed but liuely represented by the Soueraigne power that the high Priest of the old Testament had ouer all the rest To determine and end all doubts Deuter. 17. and controuersies arising about any hard point of the law As for consecrating of Priests and hallowing of Churches and Altars with all Vestiments and Ornaments thereunto appertaining and for the seuerall feasts and fasts there is so great resemblance betweene them and vs that Protestants commonly cry out against vs for the ouer great affinity that is betwixt the old law and our religion But as they are to be reproued of indiscreet zeale against the rites of Moyses law which were of God and good for the time and most of them figures and types of the law of grace according to that of the Apostle All 1. Cor. 10. things chanced to them in figure and were written for our correction and instruction so on the other side some strange defluxion and dâ—stillation of corrupt humours maruailously darkned M. Abbots sore eyes that he could not discerne nor find in the whole law of Moises any one shadow of that which we now practise May not these worthy words which S. Paul pronounced of the blinded Iewes in his time be verified of him Their senses 2. Cor. 3. were dulled vntill this day when Moyses is read a veile is put vpon their heart that is they reading and hearing the law of Moyses doe no more vnderstand it then doth a man hoodded or that hath a veile before his eyes see what is before him or else M. Abbot reading the old Testament could not choose but haue seene much of our religion and many articles of our faith there recorded And albeit we teach most mysteries of our faith to haue beene in the law of Moyses prefigured and foretold yet is it very absurd to say as M. Abbot doth that we beleeue no more articles of faith then they did for we were by the Sonne of God our blessed Sauiour giuen to vnderstand many high points of beliefe which were not reueiled vnto them as hath beene before declared R. ABBOT ANd I might as easily answere that the Popish Sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ as they call it vnder the formes of bread and wine is an absurd nouelty neither prefigured by Melchizedecke nor fore-told by Malachy the Prophet nor euer knowen to any ancient Father of the Christian Church Strange it is that a reall propitiatory sacrifice of Christs body and bloud vnder the formes of bread and wine should bee deriued from Melchizedecke with whom we see no token or semblance thereof of whom it is not said that he offered bread and wine but only that
a Genes 14. 18. hee brought forth bread and wine and that as Ambrose and Hierome say out of the Hebrew writers b Ambros ad Hebr. cap. 7. Hieron ad Euagr Nec mirum si Melchâ—zedec victori Abraham obuiam processerit in reseâ—â—ion em tam ipsius quam pugnatorum eius panesâ—â—mumque protulerit For the refreshing of him and his souldiers in which meaning c Ioseph Anâ—iq Iudaic. l. 1. â— 11. Milites Iosephus namely Abrahami hospitalitèr habuit nihil â—is ad victum decsse passus doth vnderstand it And if M. Bishop will needes haue it translated by the word of offering as his fellowes are wont greatly to wrangle to that intent yet Ambrose so also applyeth it that d Ambros de Sacram. l. 4. c. 3. Occurrit illi Melâ—lnsedec Sacâ—rdos â—btulit ei paâ—â—e vinii he offered to Abraham bread and wine thereby excluding all necessity of construction of sacrifice to God But if yet we shall perforce take it of offering to God we conceiue of it according to that which Cyprian saith thatâ— e Cyprian l. 2. Ep. 3. Domiâ—uâ— noster Iesus Christus Sacrificium Dâ—o Patri obtulit obtulit hoc idâ—m quod Melchisedec obtulâ—rat id est panem vinii suâ—â— scilicet corpus sanguineÌ„ our Lord Iesus Christ offering a sacrifice to God the Father offered the very same that Melchisedec had offered that is bread and wine euen his owne body and bloud If the sacrifice of Christ and Melchisedecke be the very same and Melchisedecke also offered the body and bloud of Christ as these words import then cannot our sacrifice be a true and real sacrifice of Christs body and bloud because Melchisedecks was not so Christ as yet not hauing taken his body and bloud and therefore must both that and this be vnderstood to be only the mysterie and signification thereof And this interpretation of the sacrifice on both sides Hierome confirmeth when of our Sauiour Christs institution of the Sacrament he saith f Hieron in Mat. 26. Assumit panem ad verum Paschae traÌ„sgreditur Sacramentum vâ— quomodo in praefiguratione eius Melchisedec suÌ„mi Dei Sacerdos panem vinii offerens fecerat ipse quoque veritatem sui corpâ—ris sanguiniâ— repraesentaret Christ taketh bread and goeth to the true Sacrament of the Passeouer that as Melchisedec the Priest of the high God in prefiguring of him offering bread and wine had done so he himselfe also might represent the truth of his body and bloud There is therefore both in the one and in the other not the very truth of the body and bloud of Christ but only a representation of the truth thereof euen as Chrysostome on the one side expresseth when he saith that g Chrys Op. imperfec hom 11 Haec vasa sactificata inquibus non â—st verii coâ—pus Christi sed mysterium corporis eius continetur in the holy vessels is contained not the true body of Christ but the mysterie of his body And vnlesse it be thus it cannot stand which Ambrose concerning this offering of Melchisedec saith that h Ambros de Sacram. l. 4. c. 3. Intellige Sacramenta quâ— accipis anteriâ—ra esse quà m sint Moysi Sacramenta c. the Sacraments which we receiue are more ancient then the Sacraments of Moses for how can that be if our Sacraments be truly and really the body and bloud of Christ which Melchisedecks were not Againe where God by Malachy saith i Mat. 1. 11. In euery place incense shall be offered vnto me and a pure offering whose eyes are so sharpe as that in those words he can discerne the Popish sacrifice of the Masse We reade here of incense and a pure offering but this roome is too little for the building of so large a house their Masse cannot stand within the compasse of this ground And when we consider how the Fathers expound the same Tertullian one where generally of k Tertul. adu ludaeos Desacrisicijs spiritualibus addit dicens In omni loco sacrificia munda offerâ—tur spirituall sacrifices another where of l Idem cont Marc. l. 4. Sacrificium mundum scilicet simplex oratio de conscientia pura sincere prayer out of a pure censcience Hierome of m Hieron in Zacha. c 8. Sacrificium mundum nequaquam in victimis veteris Testamenti sed in sanctuate Euangelica puritatis the sanctity and holinesse of Euangelicall purity Eusebius of n Euseb de demonstrat Euang lib. 1. c 6. Sacrificium quod appellaturpurum facimus per puras actiones pure and godly doings Austin of o Aug. cont lit Petil. l. 2. c. 86. Viuum Sacrificium de quo dictum est Immola Deo sacrificium laudis the liuely sacrifices of praise and thanks-giuing Theodoret of p Theodoret. in Mal. c. 1. Debitum honorem praestabuÌ„t accomodatum cultum adhibebunt the due honour and conuenient worship of God exemplifying the same by the words of Christ q John 4. 23. The true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth and by the words of the Apostle r 1. Tim. 2. 8. Let men pray euery where lifting vp pure hands without wrath or doubting and Hierome by the words of the Psalme Å¿ Psal 141. 2. Let my prayer be set forth in thy sight as the incense and the lifting vp of my hands as an euening sacrifice these things I say considered may we not be thought to be out of our wits if we shall beleeue them that the place must needes be vnderstood of their monstrous sacrifice That Manna was a type of the body of Christ no Christian man doubteth but that it was a type of Christs body as really in the Sacrament no wise man beleeueth and the reason wherby t Answere to M. Perkins Aduertisement sect 56. See the Confutation elsewhere he goeth about to proue it is there declared to be vaine So haue I also u Of Traditions sect 21. formerly shewed that the example of the high Priest amongst the Iewes giueth no manner warrant to the supreme authority of one head ouer the whole Christian Church that the high Priest amongst the Iewes had no such supremacy as they claime to the Pope that reason teacheth such a supremacy to be the manifest and certaine danger of the Church and experience hath found it to be the very ruine and desolation thereof As for their according with the Iewish ceremonies in consecrating of Priests and hallowing of Churches and Altars and Vestments c. it is a slender proofe for the finding of their religion amongst the Iewes because they haue borrowed many ceremonies from the Pagans also and yet they will not say that their religion was amongst the Pagans Their emuâ—aâ—â—on of those ceremonies we iustly cry out against as preposterous and absurd because they being as M. Bishop saith types and figures of the law of
borne of him and for that when his study and diligence was acceptable to thee thou saiedst thou would raise vp his stocke and Kingdome therefore we now desire of thee the things which thou hast couenanted and promised Albeit if we grant M. Bishop his owne translation and that here Salomon mentioneth the mildnesse and goodnesse of his father Dauid yet shall it auaile him nothing because God being stiled c 1. Kingâ— 8. 23. the God that keepeth couenant and mercy with his seruants that walke before him with all their heart the commemoration of Dauids vertues shall be but a describing of him to be one of those seruants to whom God keepeth couenant and mercy not any allegation of his merit whereby he should stand as a Mediatour for them Therefore the Greeke Fathers who follow the translation of the Septuagint and doe reade the mildnesse of Dauid doe notwithstanding make the promise of God the maine ground of all this prayer and request Thus Theodoret though misapplying the Psalme to the people of the captiuity of Babylon giueth the briefe therof thus that d Theodoret. in Psal 131. Captiui qui Babyloni crant vniuersorum Deum obsecrant promissiones magno Dauidi ab ipso factas pro precibus assâ—rentes vt veniam consequantur precantes they besought God bringing the promises made by him to Dauid in steede of prayers that they might obtaine pardon And so Basil and Chrysostome comming to those wordes of the Psalme The Lord hath sworne vnto Dauid c. doe note therein the principall point whereupon Salomon relyed e Basil in psaâ— cund Quoniaâ—a Dauidis virtutisque ac studij illius circa Templum meminit priscarum narracionâ—m mentionem secit hoc quod maximum crat huius reicaput testameÌ„tum scilicet Dei relegens praetexit Idem habet Chrysost ibid. Hauing made mention say they of Dauid and his vertue and care concerning the Temple and of other ancient narrations he now alleageth that which was the chiefest ground of this matter rehearsing the testament and couenant of God In all this let M. Bishop take it how he will we see no bloud alleaged for remission of sinnes no merit for obtaining the Kingdome of heauen but all is for stablishing a stocke and Kingdome which God had promised vpon the earth If he can shew vs any promise made to Thomas Becket concerning forgiuenesse of sinnes and eternall life to be obtained by his bloud hee shall say somewhat to the purpose but sith hee cannot doe so little reason had he and lesse conscience to alleage the example of that prayer of Salomon for defence of such a prayer or rather such a blasphemy as theirs is whereof he himselfe is so ashamed as that euen here where he defendeth it he seemeth loth to vtter it repeating in Latin only the wordes Tu per Thomae sanguinem and whereas the prayer is by the bloud of Thomas to be brought to heauen setting downe in steede thereof take compassion vpon vs. Now although he haue thus shewed himselfe a monstrous man in defending this horrible impiety of mingling the polluted bloud of a vile traitour with the sacred and innocent bloud of the vnspotted Lambe of God yet to make the matter very goodly for himselfe he passeth from it with a Rhetoricall extenuation thus I will not dwell vpon these impertinent and loose follies which all that be not babes may of themselues easily descry Indeede he may well call them on his owne part impertinent and loose follies which are no otherwise tyed togither but with such slender knots which are so palpably impious as that there is no babe so simple that hath any common vnderstanding of Christian faith but seeth the grossenesse and absurdity thereof But herein he followeth the steps of his companions whose manner it is where they are most wounded to make shew to laugh most and namely of M. Harding who being pressed with this sacrilegious prayer answered that it was an obiection meete for a Cobler so very a trifle is it with them to abase the merit of the Sonne of God by matching with it the demerit of a wicked and wilfull man Vpon this transition he inferreth out of the premisses two cruell conclusions First that no religion was to be called Catholike before the Gospell was preached vnto all nations True but yet the same faith and religion was before though it were not as yet called Catholike til it were preached vnto all nations f Aug. cont Faust l. 16. cap. 28. Non diuersa doctrina est sed diuersum tempus There was no difference of the doctrine saith St. Austin though there were difference of the time Secondly saith he that the Roman faith and religion is very conformable to that of the Patriarchs and Prophets as the verity is to the figure But we see not the premisses whence this conclusion should follow hauing hitherto heard of nothing pertaining to that purpose but only a ridiculous imitation of old shadowes and figures which we rather hold for a deformity of the Church that is then any conformity with the Church that was Our conformity with them must not be in shadowes and figures which were no longer to continue but g Heb. 9. 10. vntill the time of reformation should come but in the substance and truth which those pictures and shadowes for the time helped them to vnderstand that they might beleeue and which Christ hath taught vs now to beleeue without any of their helps To cleaue to the shadow still when the body is in place what is it but to play with a shadow and to neglect the body The figure whereof M. Bishop speaketh is outward and corporall the verity and truth is inward and spirituall The resembling then of those outward figures in Popish outward ceremonies is not a conformity betwixt the verity and the figure but rather that that is betwixt figure and figure betwixt one picture and another As for vs we hold that due correspondence with that old church which God requireth who wholly without those figures hold that spirituall truth which they beleeued therein He goeth on and saith that he hath already confuted my assertion that Christ at his comming confirmed the faith and religion of the Iewes without any additions of his owne and commended it simply and nakedly only stripping it of types and shadowes to be preached to the nations Where note I pray thee gentle Reader that whereas I say that Christ confirmed the same faith and religion and no other he setteth downe of his owne deuice the same faith and religion without any additions of his owne which although it be true as touching substance of faith and religion for therein Christ added nothing yet it sheweth his lewd minde for that he hath done it to euill purpose that he might giue way to himselfe with some colour to cauill against me as presently after he doth that Christ added other signes and Sacraments which the
Iewish Church before receiued not But let him report my wordes as he findeth them and then they shall stand good that Christ taught no other but the same faith and religion that was deliuered by Moses and the Prophets to the former Church which is not hindered by that he instituted new Sacraments because I haue already shewed that in diuersity of Sacraments there is still the same faith Which how handsomely he hath confuted hath before appeared and I suppose by that time he hath further considered of the matter he will finde cause to seeke for a better confutation But yet taking it vpon him that he hath confuted me he goeth on saying And here I adde that then Christians may haue many wiues togither as the Iewes had and may giue their wiues vpon any displeasure a libâ—ll of diuorce Where we may well thinke that he was scant in the right that tooke the lawfulnesse of many wiues and the giuing of a bill of diuorce to a wife to haue beene matters of the Iewes faith and religion towards God I haue cited Leo Bishop of Rome saying that h §. 2. of this Chapter the faith whereby we liue hath neuer differed in any age and will M. Bishop inferre against him as he doth against me that Christians then may haue many wiues and husbands may vpon euery displeasure giue their wiues a bill of diuorcement to put them away as it was amongst the Iewes Did not his discretion serue him to put difference betwixt matters of faith and of manners betwixt articles of religion and offices of conuersation Faith and religion import that deuotion seruice which is immediately performed to God and what letteth but that in their lawfulnesse of many wiues they might yeeld to God the same deuotion that we doe and we in single marriage the same that they But haply somewhat it was that he aimed at which his troubled head serued him not to expresse I said in my answere as touching those Fathers of the old Testament According to the approued example of their life we also teach men to liue Now I imagine hereof it is that he meant to say that then Christians may haue many wiues and at their pleasure giue their wiues libels of diuorce If this were his meaning he should haue bethought himselfe where their example in these things is found any where to haue beene approued because I made mention only of approued example For our parts we hold plurality of wiues in those times to haue beene permitted but not approued tolerated by dispensation as i Gregor exposit in 1. Reg. c. 2 l. 2. Quaedam in sacra Scriptura inuenâ—untur praecepta quae dispensatâ—oâ—â— qâ—idâ—m Dâ—â— praecepta sâ—nt sed non amore Deâ— Gregory saith some things were of old but not warranted by institution And of that dispensation the same Gregory taketh an example of the Iewes giuing a bill of diuorce concerning which we see how the Pharisees alleage in the Gospell not that God ordained it but only that Moses so commanded or rather suffered and the reason thereof giuen k Mat. 19 78. because of the hardnesse of their hearts and therefore we hope M. Bishop vpon better aduice will not of vnity of faith conclude any more that it should now be lawfull for vs to doe the same As for the iudiciall law of the Iewes it is wholly without the occasion and compasse of my speech and briefly I answere him that though there be the same faith and the same rules of duty and conuersation yet it doth not therefore follow that censures and punishments or trials and legall proceedings must be the same In a word whatsoeuer the Apostles decreed in their Councell at Hierusalem for the abrogating of the law we acknowledge and obey and that more faithfully then the Papists doe who as M. Bishop confesseth doe hold it their grace still to hold a conformity with the ceremonies of the law Yet againe if the Apostles saith he were simply and nakedly to preach to the Gentiles the law of Moses he should say without ambiguity the faith and religion of the Patriarchs and Prophets stript of types and shadowes why then were they commanded to preach vnto them the sacraments of Baptisme and of the Supper of the Lord An idle question and it is already answered that in deliuering other Sacraments they taught no other but the same doctrine and faith The Sacraments are water in Baptisme bread and wine in the Lords Supper different from those of old The doctrine of faith is the death of Christ and shedding of his bloud for the cleansing of our soules and remission of our sinnes which was the same in all the Sacrifices and Sacraments of the Church since the world beganne And this one doctrine I said the Apostles by the commandement of Christ so taught as that they added nothing of their owne This saith M. Bishop is very false for many things were left by our Sauiour to their disposition Now thou must vnderstand gentle Reader that I vsed not those wordes as mine owne but did set them downe in a distinct letter quoting Tertullian in the margent as the authour of them The whole passage of those words shall giue some light to the matter here in hand l Tertul. de Praescript Nobis nihil ex nostro arbitrio indulgere licet sed ne eligere quod aliquis de arbitrio suo induxerit Apostolos Domini habemuâ— authores qui nec ipsi quicquam ex suo arbitrio quod inducerent clegerunt sed acceptam à Christo disciplinam fidelitèr nationibus adsignauerunt We may not saith he giue our selues liberty of any thing at our owne discretion nor make choise of any thing which any other man hath brought in of his owne minde We haue the Apostles of the Lord for our leaders who did not of their owne will or discretion make choise of any thing to bring in but the doctrine which they receiued of Christ they faithfully deliuered to the nations Here then M. Bishop giueth Tertullian the lye and telleth him that it is false which he saith dissembling in the meane time the sight of Tertullians name and making shew as if he spake it to me only Thou art now at thy choise gentle Reader whâ—ther thou wilt rather beleeue Tertullian or M. Bishop If thou wilt rather beleeue Tertullian in a worke generally approued then thou must say as we say that the Apostles added nothing of their owne but taught only what they receiued of Christ according to the commission giuen vnto them m Mat. 28 20. Teaching them to obserue whatsoeuer things I haue commanded you But to shew that our Sauiour left many things to the disposition of the Apostles he alleageth those wordes of St. Paul n 1. Cor. 11. 34. Other things I will dispose or set in order when I come Where I would pray him to tell vs in good sadnesse whether the meaning of those wordes be I
of the Valentinian Heretikes and Heracleonites as I haue z Answere to the Preface of the second part sect 20. before shewed St. Iames doth not say Is any man in extremity of sicknesse past hope of life and now departing out of the world as M. Bishop in part speaketh and as they wholly vse that new deuised Sacrament but he saith absolutely Is any man sicke Againe St. Iames maketh the effect of that annointing to be bodily health saying that the Lord shall raise him vp or giue him ease which is the sauing or preseruing of which he speaketh namely from the perill and danger of sicknesse as a Bellarm. de Extr. vnct c. 8. Incipit à sanitate corporali cum ait Oratio fidei saluabit infir 〈…〉 Bellarmine himselfe expoundeth it whereas the effect of Sacraments is no corporall benefit but only inward and spirituall grace For albeit the water of Baptisme haue an effect to cleanse the body and bread and wine in the Lords Supper to nourish and feede the same yet these are no Sacramentall but only naturall effects belonging to these creatures without any Sacrament whereas the proper effect of that whereof St. Iames speaketh is bodily recouery and therefore by b OEcumen in Iac. 5. Hoc etiam Domino adhuc inter homines conuersante Apostoli sacrebant vngentes aegrotos olâ—o sanantes OEcumenius is made all one with that which the Apostles did as I haue alleaged whereof health is noted to haue ensued His last text is to proue that we must confesse our sinnes not to God only but also to men because the same St. Iames saith Confesse your sinnes one to another And who denyeth this who gainsayeth it when as our Sauiour Christ so plainly instructeth him that hath c Luke 17. 4. sinned against his brother to returne to him and say It repenteth me that so there may be reconciliation and peace betwixt them We make no question of confessing repentantly and charitably one to another but we question the necessity of confessing auricularly to the Priest by particular enumeration of all our sinnes and so farre is the text which M. Bishop citeth from deliuering expresly this as that his Masters of Rhemes doe plainly tell him that d Rhem. Testam Annotat. Iam. 1. 16. it is not certaine that St. Iames speaketh here of sacrament all confession who notwithstanding would haue bin glad if they could haue had any ground wherupon to affirme that he did so Now what did he then meane thus to heape together such a number of places as wherein their Roman doctrine is deliuered in expresse termes when as there is not one of them that doth iustifie their Roman doctrine and his owne fellowes doe confesse so much of sundry of them What neede we to ransacke all the corners of our wits to deuise odde shifts to auoide the â—uidence as he calleth it of such places which without any shifts at all are so easily and plainly cleared as these are Yet according to his wonted and wise manner he concludeth that the Protestants doe not receiue all the written word who notwithstanding receiue all these places reade them cite them expound them acquaint the people vsually with them which they by no meanes dare to doe Yea but the Scriptures are not in reading but in vnderstanding and we doe not take them in the right sense Silly fellow what hindereth but that we should be thought able to vnderstand the Scriptures as well as he Forsooth we receiue not the Scriptures he saith according to the most ancient and best learned Doctors exposition But be thou Iudge gentle Reader whether in this whole worke to goe no further I haue not brought the most ancient and best learned Doctors exposition more frequently and firmely then he hath done He talketh of the Doctors for shew to blinde simple men but the true cause of their griefe is that wee receiue not the Romish exposition nor bee content to submit the whole Scriptures to the Popes will But because we finde no such rule amongst the most ancient and best learned Doctors that the Popes mouth should be any oracle of Scripture-sense we leaue his babling of the exposition of Scripture as partiall and idle and doe wish him to learne more wit then to take Scriptures in such sort as they that are at Rome are faine to doe W. BISHOP §. 8. NOw to draw towards the end of this clause not only neuer a one of M. Abbots assertions whereby hee went about to proue themselues and their Church to bee Catholike is true as hath beene shewed before but ouer and besides his very conclusion conuinceth himselfe euen by the verdict of himselfe to fall into the foule fault and errour of the Donatists Our faith saith he because it is that which the Apostles committed to writing is the Apostolike faith and our Church by consanguinity and agreement of doctrine is proued to bee an Apostolicall Church c. and is the only true Catholike Church c. see you not how he is come at length to proue their Church to be Catholike Ex perfectione Page 16. lin 5. doctrinae By perfectnesse of their doctrine which was as he himselfe in this very assertion noted a plaine Donatâ—sticall tricke reproued by S. Augustine whom in that point he then approued What doating folly is this in the same short discourse so to forget himselfe as to take that for a sound proofe which he himselfe had before confuted as hereticall We like well of Tertullians obseruation That our faith ought to haue consanguinity and perfect agreement with the Apostles doctrine but that is not the question at this time but whether our doctrine or the Protestant be truly called Catholike that is whether of them hath beene receiued and beleeued in all nations ouer the world that is to be proued in this place M. Abbot if he had meant to deale plainly and soundly should not haue gone so about the bush and haue fetched such wide and wilde windlesses from old father Abrahams dayes but should haue demonstrated by good testimony of the Ecclesiasticall Histories or of ancient Fathers who were in the pure times of the Church the most Godly and approued Pastors thereof that the Protestants religion had flourished since the Apostles dayes ouer all Europe Afrike and Asia or at least had beene visibly extant in some one Country or other naming some certaine Churches in particular which had held in all points their faith and religion which he seeing impossible for any man to doe fell into that extrauagant and rouing discourse which you haue heard concluding without any premises sauing his owne bare word that in the written word There is no mention made of the Pope or his Supremacy nor of his Pardons c. Belike there is no mention made of S Peter nor ought said of his singular prerogatiues It hath not peraduenture That whatsoeuer hee should loose on earth should bee loosed in
any premises that in the written word there is no mention made of the Pope of his Supremacy of his Pardons c. Wisedome what premises should I vse to proue the negatiue in this case It concerneth you to proue that there is mention made of them and to designe vs the places where for me it is enough to say that there is none See now what proofe he bringeth that there is Belike saith he there is no mention made of St. Peter nor ought said of his singular prerogatiues it hath not peraduenture that whatsoeuer he should loose on earth should be loosed in heauen Wisedome what is this for answere to me I say there is no mention made of the Pope and doe you tell me of St. Peter And if it were said to St. Peter d Mat. 16. 19. Whatsoeuer thou bindest on earth shall be bound in heauen was it not also said to all the Apostles e Mat. 18. 18. Whatsoeuer yee binde on earth shall be bound in heauen What prerogatiue is here to St. Peter more then to all the rest of the Apostles or if there were any prerogatiue to St. Peter what is that to the Pope He would be glad to heare where the written word teacheth vs that Kings and temporall Magistrates are ordained by Christ to be vnder him supreme Gouernours of Ecclesiasticall affaires But he saith vntruly he would not be glad to heare it but how glad would he be if he could out of the written word say so much for the Pope as we can for the King We finde the Apostle St. Paul saying f Rom. 13. 1. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers and St. Peter expounding what is meant by those higher powers g 1. Pet. 2. 13. whether vnto the King as to the supereminent or chiefe or vnto Gouernours as sent by him thereby giuing absolutely to the King a superiority ouer euery soule and requiring euery soule h Chrysost ad Rom. hom 23. Etiam si Apostolus sis si Euangelista si Propheta siue quisquis tandem fueris euen the Prophet the Apostle the Euangelist as Chrysostome obserueth to be subiect to the King But he will say it is not here said in Ecclesiasticall affaires I answere him Neither is it said here only in temporall affaires The supremacy then being simply giuen will M. Bishop dare to set downe a limitation where God himselfe hath set none The office of a King is declared by those Apostles to be i Rom. 13. 3. 1. Pet. 2. 14. for the punishment of them that doe euill and for the praise of them that doe well and if well doing and euill doing doe extend as well to Ecclesiasticall as Temporall affaires what warrant hath M. Bishop to restraine the Kings power from gouerning in them both Are temporall Magistrates saith he any Ecclesiasticall persons at all Let the Emperour Constantine giue him answere hereof who told his Bishops thus k Euseb de vita Constant l. 4. c. 24. Vos inquit intra Ecclesiam ego extra Ecclesiam Episcopus à Deo constitutus sum You are Bishops within the Church but without the Church God hath appointed me to be a Bishop signifying thereby that the acting and administring of diuine offices Sacraments did belong to them but that otherwise the gouernement of the Church and the power of commanding all for the preseruation of religion and well ordering of Church affaires did belong to him Though temporall Magistrates then be no Ecclesiasticall persons in the former sense yet a King as a Christian is a member of the Church and as a King by Constantines iudgement is appointed of God to bee externally the Ruler and Gouernour thereof Wherefore to call the state of Kings as M. Bishop doth a secular state as hauing to meddle only with secular and temporall things is a secular and prophane interpretation of the office of Kings and a meere begging of the point in question And of that presumption he inferreth another when he saith Is it meete and decent that the lesse worthy member should haue the supreme command ouer the more honourable I will not here stand vpon his absurd crossing of himselfe who hauing euen now made the state Ecclesiasticall and Secular two distinct bodies doth make them here members both of one body To let that passe who will grant him that the King is the lesse worthy and the Priest the more honourable He will say that matters of the soule which are of highest nature are administred by Priests Be it so and matters of the soule which are of the highest nature are commanded by Kings and the commanding power as we suppose is alwaies more honourable then the administring office The very Heathens thought that the deuotions to their Gods which were acted by their Priests were of greatest respect and yet they were not so fond as to conclude hereof that the person of the Priest was more honourable then the King In the policy ordered by God himselfe we finde l 2. Kings 23. 4. the Priests commanded by the King but we doe not finde the King commanded by the Priest We finde the Prophet stiling himselfe m 1. Kings 1. 24. 26. 27. the Kings seruant and the King his Lord but we doe not finde the King giuing that honour to the Prophet We know that in the naturall body the heart ministreth life vnto the head and yet the supremacy of honour resteth in the head euen for the gouernement and direction of things belonging to that life which is administred by the heart Euen so albeit the ministring of those things which concerne the saluation and life both of Prince and people belong to the Priest yet that hindereth not but that the highest honour and dignity resteth in the Prince so farre as to command for the due vsage and execution of those things which concerne the saluation both of himselfe and of his people This is saith M. Bishop to preferre the body before the soule nature before grace earth before heauen Full wisely spoken as if a Christian King were nothing but body and nature and earth but a Priest no other but spirit and grace and heauen Yet we doubt not but that many Kings are more spirituall and gracefull and heauenly then many Priests and many Priests euen Popes themselues more sauouring of the body and nature and earth then many Kings and how doe we then by giuing the soueraignty to Kings preferre the body before the soule nature before grace earth before heauen Forsooth the matters of the soule and of grace and of heauen he will say are managed by Priests Be it so make comparison then of the things but make no comparison thereby of the persons Say he that preferreth the things that belong to the Kings affaires before those things that are ministred by the Priest preferreth the body before the soule c. but we say we may in outward state of gouernement giue the supreme honour
way to goe and vncertaine where they shall arriue And this he doth to hide from them the true vse of that ground and foundation which he himselfe hath layed from whence it properly and naturally ariseth that sith that was the certaine truth which was first deliuered and taught and is to be the measure and rule of the faith and doctrine of all succeeding times therefore we should first haue recourse to the monuments and records of that that was first taught thereby to iudge of the faith and religion of our fathers and to esteeme whether their steps were such as that we may securely follow them In this behalfe Christ hath prouided for vs who h Gregor in Ezech. hom 13 Ipsa quae dixit etiam Scripturae tradidit vt posteris mandâ—â—etur what he spake saith Gregory he committed also to writing that posterity might know the same i August de consens Euangel lib. 1. c. 35. Quicquid ille de suis factis dictis nos legere voluit hoc illis scribendum tanquam suis manibus imperauit Whatsoeuer he would haue vs to reade saith Austin of his doings and sayings he commanded his Disciples as his hands to write the same And thus k Idem in 1. Epistol Ioan. tract 2. Contra insidiosos â—rrores Deus voluit ponere firmamentum in Scripturis contra quâ—s nullus audet loqui qui quoquo modo se vult videri Christianum against deceipt â—ill errours saith the same St. Austin God would set vs a fortresse or bulwarke in the holy Scriptures against which no man dare speake that will in any sort be thought a Christian man Hauing then certaine records of the truth first deliuered such as no man dare contradict what way can we imagine for resolution either more compendious and short or more lightsome and comfortable then to looke to the patterne of faith expressed in those records thence to informe our selues and thereby to rectifie whatsoeuer we finde to haue swarned or declined from that rule This M. Bishop cannot abide this they know to be the gall and bane of Popery and therefore from this they labour to withdraw men that what they cannot defend by testimony of truth they may notwithstanding colour by the example of their fathers This was the intent of M. Bishops not humble but presumptuous request to his Maiesty that he would maintaine and set forth that faith wherein all his royall Progenitors liued and dyed not that he is able to demonstrate in what religion all his Maiesties royall Progenitours liued and dyed but that he may leade him from that rule whereby he should be able to iudge of the faith of his Progenitours and whether his fathers haue in any sort swarued from that faith which at the first was deliuered to their forefathers Albeit if it be true which he saith that Symmachus the Pagan played the part of a foolish Sophister when he pleaded so with the Emperor Valentinian We are to follow our fathers because the Emperors father and nearest Predecessors were no Pagan Idolaters but profâ—ssed Christians then doth himselfe also play the part of a foolish Sophister in pleading so with King IAMES that he must follow his fathers inasmuch as his nearest Predecessours his father and grandfather were no Popish Idolaters but professours of the religion of the Protestants and his mother so well perswaded thereof as that shee would not goe about to disswade him from it But against the plea of Symmachus â—e excepteth further because his forefathers for whose idolatry he pleadeth had before forsaken the true worship of one liuing God Which though it be true yet I maruell how M. Bishop would make him to beleeue it inasmuch as he had to alleage that for so many hundred yea for thousands of yeares their Ancestours had continued those deuotions and that it might seeme strange that amongst so many wise Gouernours so many learned Philosophers so many vertuous men there should not be one of so many generations that euer could see that they did amisse Wee see how he saith not only l Relat. Symmach apud Ambros Epist lib 5. Seruanda est tot seculis fides sequendi sunt nobis parentes qui sâ—cuti sunt felicitèr suos Let vs follow our Ancestours but addeth who with great felicity followed theirs being fully resolued that both their Ancestours and the Ancestours of their Ancestours had in all times past beene the same as they M. Bishop by beleefe of holy Scripture knoweth the contrary because he there vnderstandeth all nations to haue been the posterity of Noah who was a worshipper of one true liuing God saued by faith in Christ to come whose religion set forth in Scripture being compared to the superstitions of the Pagans doth clearely conuince that they were farre departed from that that he was Now then M. Bishop be content that we returne the same to you You say that all our Ancestours from the beginning continued in one and the same euen your religion Shall we now for triall hereof goe to our Ancestours and aske them whether it be so or not No but we will goe to holy Scripture and there see what was the faith and religion of them who are our true Ancestours the first fathers and founders of the Christian Church the Apostles and Euangelists and there we finde a farre other manner of faith then Popery doth yeeld whereby we certainly vnderstand that they haue corrupted the true faith His exception against the Donatists pleading of their fathers is the same as against Symmachus that their fathers were degenerated from the integrity of their grandfathers and therefore were not to be followed But yet the Donatists held that all their forefathers were of their minde euen as stifly as the Papists doe They said that they were not fallen from the Catholike Church but the Catholike church from them so as that they affirmed it to haue beene their Church which was persecuted by Nero and the rest of those Roman Tyrants as I haue before shewed in the second Chapter But St. Austin euery where bringeth them to the Scriptures m Collat. Carthag 1. c. 18. In eis literis Ecclesiam esse quaerendam vbi Christus redemptor eius innotuit Et Collat. 3. c. 101. Nos eam Ecclesiam retinemus quam in illis Scripturis inuenim in quibus etiam cognouimus Christum there to learne and seeke the Church of Christ where we learne to know Christ himselfe and thereby iustifieth that they were fallen away from the Church and not the Church from them and therfore that they were to renounce their fathers that had so done and returne to the Church againe This M. Bishop cannot pleade against vs whose parents haue beene Protestants to moue vs to refuse the religion of our fathers and to returne to the example of our forefathers because by the Scriptures we learne that our forefathers did amisse and therefore that it shall be to vs a
Christ her Lord and head and most entire in the faith and doctrine which shee had receiued from him Of this flourishing and best estate we must consider in the next Chapter and therefore I cease here to speake any further thereof CHAP. VII Of the flourishing and best estate of the Church of Rome and of the testimony of Theodoret concerning the fulnesse of doctrine contained in the Epistle to the Romans and that the Apostle there condemneth Popery of Idolatry in worshipping of Saints and Images ANSWERE TO THE EPISTLE VVE hope you vvill not deny but the Apostle S. Paul vvas one principall pillar c. to Chap. 8. Paul saith and vve say the same that c. W. BISHOP §. 1. WHat a worthy graue Preface he vseth to assure men that we will not deny S. Paul nor his Epistle to the Romans which neuer were called in doubt by any man But good Sir whiles you muse and busie your head so much vpon bables you forget or wilfully mistake the very point of the question Was the Church of Rome at her most flourishing estate when S. Paul wrote that Epistle to the Romans was her faith then most renovvmed ouer all the vvorld as you write nothing lesse for not the ten thousand part of that most populous Citty was then conuerted to the faith and they that had receiued the Christian faith were very nouices in it and stoode in great neede of the Apostles diuine instructions Any reasonable man would rather iudge that the Church of Rome then came first to her most flourishing estate when Idolatry and all kinde of superstition was put to silence and banished out of her when the Christian religion was publikely preached and conntenanced by the Emperours authority which was not before the reigne of Constantine the Great our most glorious countrey-man wherefore M. Abbots first fault is that he shooteth farre wide from the marke which he should haue aimed at principally The second is more nice yet in one that would seeme so acute not to be excused It is that he taketh an Epistle written to the Romans for their instruction and correction as if it were a declaration and profession of their faith when as all men know such a letter might containe many things which they had not heard off before Further yet that you may see how nothing can passe his fingers without some legerdemaine marke how he englisheth Theodorets wordes Dogmatum pertractationem The handling of opinions is by him translated all points of doctrine whereas it rather signifieth some then all opinions or lessons But I will let these ouer-sights passe as flea-bitings and follow him whither he pleaseth to wander that euery man may see when he is permitted to say what he liketh best that in truth he can alleage out of S. Paul nothing of moment against the Catholike faith R. ABBOT WEe see here what great cause there was that his Maiesty should adde the wordes now spoken off And from Christ her Lord and head because it might be doubted what construction they or any other might make of the flourishing and best estate of the Church of Rome I say that St. Paul wrote his Epistle to that Church when the faith thereof was most renowmed through the world This M. Bishop denieth and will not haue that to be taken for the flourishing and best estate of the Roman Church And why First not the ten thousand part of that most populous Citty was then conuerted to the faith and secondly they who had then receiued the Christian faith were very nouices in it and stoode in great neede of the Apostles diuine instructions So then he will haue vs to vnderstand that then was the flourishing and best estate of the Church of Rome when there were in it the greatest number of Christians and they were so perfect in the faith as that they needed not the Apostles diuine instructions But when was that Not before the reigne of Constantine the Great saith he Well and was it then Nay he saith not so and we may well thinke that he knoweth not well when or what to say Certaine it is that Paganisme abounded in Rome after the time of Constantine who indeede for his time by lawes restrained the publike exercise thereof but yet a Relat. Symmach apud Ambros lib. 5. Epist 30 Diui ConstaÌ„tij factum diu non sletit that act of his saith Symmachus did not long stand good the people returning to their old superstitions and sacrifices vntill that by Theodosius and Gratian the Emperours of Rome they were repressed againe Which lawes of theirs Symmachus the Lieutenant of the city moued the next Emperour Valentinian in his owne name and in the name of the City and Senate of Rome to haue againe repealed who b Symmach vt supra Senatus me querelaruÌ„ suarum iussit esse I egatum c. Vt Praefectus vâ—ster gesta publica prosequor vt Legatus ciuium mandata commendo though he pretended a farre greater number of Senatours to ioyne with him then did as Ambrose sheweth yet cannot be doubted to haue had a great number also partakers with him beside the common multitude of the City whose affection how it stood we may gather by that that Hierome saith not much distant from that time that c Hieron in Esai lib. 16. c. 57. â—psaque Roma orbiâ— Domina in singulis insulis domibusque Tutela simulachrum cereis venerans ac lucernis quam ad tuitionem aedium isto appellant nomine Rome in euery house did with tapers and candles worship the image of Tutela whom they so called for the tuition and defence of their houses though elsewhere he testifie that d IdeÌ„ ad Marcel vt commigret Bethlehem Est ibi sancta Ecclesia c. gentilitate calcata in sublime se quotidiè erigens vocabulum Christianum Paganisme was decaying and the name of Christians arising and growing higher and higher from day to day But if it were yet growing then it was not at full growth and therefore when will M. Bishop say was the most flourishing and best time of the Church there Againe we desire to know of him when the time was that the Church of Rome stoode in no neede of the Apostles diuine instructions May we thinke M. Bishop that euer there was any such time Surely we know now what the cause is why the Apostles diuine instructions are so little set by at Rome They serued the Romans forsooth at first when they were but nouices in the faith but now they are growen ripe and haue no neede to be taught by him May we not thinke him a wise man that thus telleth vs that the Romans then stoode in neede of the Apostles diuine instructions as if there were any time since that they had not the like neede But I would aske him how it appeareth to him that the Romans were then but nouices in the faith The reason which his wordes imply is because
mandauerunt c. the bodies of the iust and faithfull which the holy Ghost hath vsed for instruments and vessels to all good workes are not to be despised and cast away inferreth that therefore the funerals of the iust of old were with all officious piety regarded their exequies celebrated and their buriall prouided for and they themselues whilest they liued gaue charge to their children for the burying of them or else for transferring them from the place where they were to be buried otherwhere He alleageth examples that Tobie in burying the dead is commended to haue pleased God that our Sauiour Christ commended the good worke of the religious woman which powred the pretious ointment vpon his body as of purpose for his buriall that they are laudably mentioned in the Gospell who tooke the body of Christ from the Crosse and vsed care to haue it diligently and honorably buried And thus Origen professing q Origen coÌ„t Cels lib. 8. Solas rationales animas honorare nouimus earli instrumenta solenni honore sepulturae dignamur Meretur enim rationalis animae domicilium non temerè proijci sicut brutorum cadauera praesertim quod fuit anima benè ac sanctè instrumento suâ— in certaâ—inibus vsae receptâ—culum to honour only the soules endued with reason sheweth what this honour is Their instruments that is their bodies we vouchsafe the solemne honour of buriall For the habitation of the reasonable soule is of more worth then carelesly to be cast away like the carkasses of brute beasts specially that which hath beene the receptacle of a soule that hath in spirituall fights and combates well and holily vsed the body Now if it be the honour that is to be done to the bodies of the Saints to bury them in the ground then is it a barbarous dishonour that is done to them in Popery vnder the name of piety to pull them out of their graues and to rent them in peeces and carry one peece this way and another another way the skull to one place the toe or finger to another one tooth hither and another thither as amongst them hath beene accustomed to be done Wherein how farre they haue departed from the ancient Church of Rome appeareth by Gregory Bishop of Rome who for his time affirmeth that r Gregor lib. 3. Epist 30. In Romanis totius OccideÌ„tis partibus omnino intolerabile est atque sacrilegum si sactorum corpora tagere quisquam fortassè praesumpserit Quod sl praesumpserit certum est quia bâ—c temeritas impunita nullo mâ—do remanebit in the Roman Church and whole Westerne parts it was a thing altogether intollerable and a matter of sacriledge to presume to touch the bodies of the Saints and if any man doe presume so to doe saith he certaine it is that his rashnesse shall by no meanes remaine vnpunished And hauing shewed diuers examples of them who aduenturing too neare to the stirâ—ing or touching of the bodies of some holy persons were thereupon greatly frighted or by death miscarried he concludeth Å¿ Ibid. Quis tam temerarius possit existere vt hâ—c sciens â—orum corpora non dico tangere sed vel aliquatenùs praesumat inspicere Who then knowing these things can be so rash as that he will presume I will not say to touch the bodies of such but in any sort to looke vpon them How is the world now changed in the Church of Rome that they dare not only looke vpon such buryed relikes but pull them out of their graues touch them kisse them carry them about as hath beene before said and will M. Bishop still notwithstanding be so impudent as to say that the religion of the church of Rome is now the same that of old it was For conclusion of this passage he alleageth t Heb. 11. 21. that Iacob adored the toppe of Iosephs rodde which was a signe of his power which he saith giueth all iudicious men to vnderstand that the Images of Saints for their holy representation ought to be respected and worshipped But what a spiâ—e hath the Apostle put him to thus to seeke for Images vpon the toppe of Iosephs rodde What meant he to be so sparing in the behalfe of the Roman Church as that hee would not name so much as one holy man to whom an Image had beene set vp to be worshipped in his name But the Apostle knew no such Marry M. Bâ—shop is able by a Romish art to supply that want by fetching an image out of the toppe of Iosephs rodde He had heard of Garnets image in the straw and hee thought the toppe of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rodde or staffe to bee much more capable of an image But for the bringing of this about hee betaketh himselfe to a translation which is manifestly false the Greeke text not saying that he worshipped the toppe of his rodde but â— he worshipped vpon the toppe of his rodde that is as we translate it hee worshipped God leaning vpon the end or toppe of his staffe This Thomas Aquinas acknowledgeth and telleth vs the whole reason hereof u Tho. Aquin. in Heb. 11. sect 5. Super fastigium vt habetur in Graeco c. Ipse erat senex ideò portabat virgam vel recepit sceptrum Joseph donec iâ—rasset antequam redderet ei adorauit non ipsam virgam nec Joseph vt quidam malè putaueruÌ„t sed ipsum Deum innixus ad cacumen vel super fastigium virgae cius Iacob was an old man saith he and therefore carried a rodde or staffe or else he tooke the scepter of Ioseph vntill Ioseph had sworne namely that he would bury his father in Canaan according to his desire and before he restored it to him he worshipped not the rodde nor Ioseph as some haue thought amisse but God himselfe leaning at the toppe or vpon the toppe of his rodde We neede no more this is enough to dash M. Bishop out of comfort and to bereaue him of all hope to finde any succour for his Images in this place But if any man desire further satisfaction let him see this place handled at large in the question of Images the sixteenth section W. BISHOP §. 5. WIth as great facility and no lesse perspicuity we doe collect out of S. Paul that the Saints in heauen are to be prayed vnto for he doth hartily craue the Rom. 15. ver 30. Romans to helpe him in their prayers and hopeth by the helpe of the Corinthians prayers to be deliuered 2. Cor. 1. ver 11. from great dangers Whence we reason thus If such a holy man as S. Paul was stood in neede of other mens prayers much more neede haue we poore wretches of the prayers of Saints S. Paul was not ignorant how ready God is to heare vs nor of the only mediation of Christ Iesus and yet as high as he was in Gods fauour and as well informed of the office of
sensibly apprehended as appeareth by that that is said of Simon Magus that c Acts 8. 18. he saw that through laying on the Apostles hands the holy Ghost was giuen and is otherwise also plainly to be perceiued Very absurdly therefore doth M. Bishop apply this place to their Sacrament of Orders where it is manifest that no such grace is giuen yea and to proue it to be a Sacrament because here is mention of grace giuen whereas the grace of Sacraments is no temporary gift but that inuisible eternall grace of remission of sinnes and sanctification of the holy Ghost whereby the inner man is renewed from day to day and the soule prepared and furnished vnto eternall life And thus we are come to an end of his proofes of their religion out of St. Pauls Epistles He telleth vs that he should be too long if he would prosecute all but be thou assured gentle Reader that he hath made here as good choise of his proofes as his wit would serue him and thou seest what they are and maiest by these esteeme what all the rest would be impertinent idle detorted wrested strained carrying no shew no colour when they are looked into of any such matter as he pretendeth Albeit thou art also to remember that all this while he hath sitten beside the cushion the thing propounded being that of Theodoret that the Epistle to the Romans containeth in it all kind of doctrine whence I inferred that sith the doctrine of Popery teacheth so many things whereof there is nothing to be found in the Epistle to the Romans it cannot be that doctrine which was at first deliuered to the Church of Rome To this he should haue directly answered and haue shewed vs that their Popery is to bee proued by the Epistle to the Romans But from this he stealeth away and to dawbe vp this breach as well as he can he maketh a scambling shift out of the rest of the Epistles and catcheth here and there a sentence as much to the purpose as if he had said nothing But the trimmest iest of all is his answer to that which I vrged as touching St. Peter whom they haue made the founder and head of their Church that it is strange that he should forget the triple crowne that he should say nothing for Popery no not a word that nothing hindereth in either of his Epistles but that he must be taken for a Protestant What doth M. Bishop say to this Marke it well gentle Reader for it is a learned answere and such as may giue thee great satisfaction in the cause As for St. Peter saith hee I will wholly omit him because the Protestants haue no confidence in him Where I may very well vse the words of St. Austine as touching the like dealing of Petilian the Donatist d Aug. contlit Petil. lib. 3. cap. 57. Videatis quà m inuictè positum sit contra quod ille nihil tutius inuenire potuit quâ—m silentium Marke how inuincibly this is set downe against which he could finde no way more safe then to say nothing What St. Peter to be theirs so nearely so entirely and yet to say nothing for them to be wholly the same that the Papists now are and yet writing two Epistles to write nothing tending thereto to say nothing at all but what we say Looke vpon the Epistles which they attribute to the Bishops of Rome that succeeded and what a worke is there in them concerning the exaltation of St. Peter concerning the dignity and authority of the Church of Rome by him ouer all other Churches and what is it not strange that St. Peter himselfe if hee had beene of the same spirit should say nothing thereof nothing of all the religion which is now proper to the Church of Rome nothing but what wholly standeth with the Protestants religion Will M. Bishop thus ridiculously babble that the Protestants haue no confidence in St. Peter when as he can alleage nothing that St. Peter saith against them or can we be perswaded that the Papists haue any confidence in him when as they can tell vs nothing that he hath said for them M. Bishop you obiect to me in this matter shamelesse impudency but I wish the Reader to consider by this answere of yours to whom the title of shamelesse impudency doth most iustly belong As for your forked argument I doubt not but you your selfe see and know that I am out of the danger of it but I feare that the one graine of it hath already giuen you a deadly wound I am afraide that it will be found that you haue wittingly and wilfully rebelled against God I feare there is a sting in your conscience pricking and vexing you day and night which howsoeuer you for the present violently oppresse yet you are not able to pull out Take heede and beware in time if you doe not glorifie God by your conuersion and confession of his truth God will certainly glorifie himselfe in your destruction FINIS Errata PAge 18. line 24. so reade to p. 19. l. 11. for all r. for all ibid. l. 33. you r. your p. 27. l. 11. accordeth r. accorded p. 28. l. 2. in marg scrip sit r. scripsit p. 66. l. 19. in marg Part. 1. r. Chapt. 1. p. 144. l. 2. Achan only r Achan only p. 179. l. 10. in marg cedite r. incedite p. 214. l. 33. these Kings to whom haue they r. these Kings to whom they haue p. 245. l. 34. in marg creatum quae r. creatum secundum piam fidem quae p. 291. l. 21. they they r. then they p. 334. l. 19. widomes r. widowes p. 363. l. 21. a matter r. matters