Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n
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A29441
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A Brief discourse betwen a sober Tory and a moderate Whigg
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1690
(1690)
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Wing B4577; ESTC R22981
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5,299
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2
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A Brief Discourse Betwen a Sober Tory and a Moderate WHIGG Tory. TRuly Neighbour Whig I have always had a very good Esteeme of you and I think in my Conscience a great many of you called Whigs are very honest well-meaning People but that you are so thoughtful and uneasie in matters of Government which in my opinion very ill becomes a good man or a true Christian Whig I thank you Neighbour Tory for your kindness But what mean you by saying that we are uneasie in matters of Government you know that I have always been as well satified with and as much admired our Government both in Church and State as any man whatsoever and were I to have my wish I would only desire that the Ecclesiastical Courts might be a little better Regulated and the Dessenters whether Scrupulous or Stubborn a little more mildely dealt with and the many good Laws we have more strictly put in execution against the Papists that so we might be effectually secured from the cruel designs and villanous practises of those Blood-sucking Monsters Tory Why Neighbour you cannot forbear discovering your discontent immediately you are now for conniving at the Fanaticks and abating the Rigour of the Law against them and for Prosecuting the Papists with the greatest extremity whereas you see that some of our admired Ministers of Justice Act quite contrary Whig Whatever the Ministers of Justice do you know it was the Opinion of the four last Parliaments after their most deliberate Consideration that the Dissenters should not be so Violently prosecuted on the Penal Laws And they were for repealing some of the most harsh Laws against them because they were not willing it should be in the Power of every malicious troublesome fellow to prosecute them thereupon to their utter Ruine as we have seen it in many parts of the Nation Besides they thought that the Prosecuting them so furiously at this Juncture was a means of giving the Papists the greater Opportunities of Effecting their Villanous Disigns And of escaping the Punishment which the Laws most Justly pronounce against them Tory. Oh Neighbour will you be so great a Whig as to Rely upon the Actions and Opinions of the late Parliaments The Extravigancy and unreasonableness of whose Intentions his Majesty hath sufficiently made known to the world in his Declaration And the Nation in general by their Addresses and Abhorrencyes have fully Declar'd their detestation of their Proceeding Whig Neighbour the Parliament being Composed or should be a number of men Generally of the Estates and greatest Prudence and discretion in their several Countreys whilst their Actions tend to the Conservation of our Laws and the Maintenance of the Kings Royal Authority and our Established Religion I know not on whom I may better Rely And if they did Vote any thing that may seem extraordinary I think we ought to impute it to the Exigency of the Times and Necessity of affairs as they then stood for they I suppose well enough saw that whilst the Popish and Arbitrary Counsels were so prevalent they were only Deluded and should not be suffered to do any thing that might effectually secure the Nation against the Papists and their Designs And for the Addresses and those kind of things you speak of we believe in most Towns they were Proposed and carried on either by Persons Popishlike affected or else by those who by their interest were bound and obliged to such and they procured some of the same Inclinations with them and some of the Ignorant Vulgar to subscribe them and then called it an Address from such a Town or County whereas we belive there were very few Subscribers of Quality and Sobriety amongst them Not but that all good men will be ready to Address or do any just thing that may be acceptable to his Majesty but they thought they could not justly endeavour to Reflect or cast an Odium upon the late Parliaments who were so Sollicitous and concerned for his Majesties and Nations good But let us return to our Dissenters and I protest Neighbour did they preach such abominable and Hellish Doctrines or Patronise and Justifie those Horrid Villanies Butcheries and Murders that the Papists as is manifestly known to all the world to I should then be altegether as Zealous for prosecuting them as I am now for Prosecuting the Papists Tory. Have you them forgot that Bloody War that was begun by them even in our memory and that most abominable Nefarious deed the Murthering the late King Sure when you look back on what was then done by them you will have very little to say in their excuse Whig As for the Original of that Unnatural War we cannot lay the blame of it only on the Dissenters if you examine the true History of those Times you may find that there were great Distempers growing in the State many Years before the breaking out of that War And perhaps many that were no Dissenters from our Church may as justly been tilled to the Original of it as the presbiterians themselves and for that most execrable and most horrid deed the Murther of his late Majesty we believe it was perpretated by a number of men that after a most bloody War had gotten the sole power of affairs into their own hands and thought it Impossible for themselves to be safe without committing that abhorred Villany for which we have seen most of those of them that were taken Recieve their most just demerits and we know that many of the Dissenters were as much Concerned for the commission of that Fact and Declared as great an abhorrency of it as any And I think they of late have Sufficiently Demonstrated to the World that they have no Inclination to Rebellion or disloyalty when as they being supposed in many places the Superior Number have taken so patiently those Notorius abuses from their Inveterate Enemies have plaineough understood their Malicious Designe of Rendering all those you call Whigs Odious to the World How have Papists and their Secret Friends continually endeavour'd to throw of the Guilt of their accursed Plot from themselves upon many of his Majesties good Subjects whom no indifferent Person upon du con ideation can possibly believe guilty of those things whereof they are accused they have so impudently and incessantly followed these Methods that amongst most of those you call Loyal and well Effected to the Crown the Popish Plot is almost exploded and Laught at and some of the Witnesses whom never could Disprove I think in any one thing they Testified Villified and reproached as the Worst of men to the great Scandal and Disgrace in my Opinion of the Government Tory. Come Neighbour do not be over cofident of any mans Innocency Time you know is the Mother of Truth and she may perhaps shortly produce those things that may satisfie you of the Guilt of some persons which you cannot I percieve get credit Notwithstanding those notorious things that have been by so many Witnesses
testified agrinst them Whig Were there any Circumstances Concurring with their Evidence I should not be so unbeliving but since after so long a Time of Preparation they could make the matter appear no better on their parts than it did I cannot do any person that wrong as to believe him Guilty of such abominable and impracticable Designs in the mean time that any Mans Life Honour Estate and the Good of his Posterity should upon false or frivolous Suggestions be brought into that apparent hazard of being Forfieted and Lost I think is nor one of the least of injuries Tory. Prithe Neighbour Whig since you and I differ so much in our Judgments about these things let us not talk more of it But I am of Opinion that if you and others of your Inclination did but give more heed and credit to some of our Learned Divines you would not so sollicitously trouble your heads about Popery for they most piously tell us that we ought to commit the Event of those things to the Almighty who will undoubtedly take care of his own Truth That Prayers and Tears to God are the only Lawful means we have to Defend us from Popery and that if it pleases God as a Punishment for our sins to suffer it to be Established over us all our Endeavours against it shall be Ineffectual and that if a false Worship should be set over us we ought to shew our Faith and Love to the Truth in suffering for it under their Power but not in Resisting or Endeavouring Forcibly to maintain the Truth Whig Methinks they might allow us to petition and sue to our earthly Prince also as well as to God Almighty to be delivered from that Intollerable Bondage of Popery and other dangers that threaten us But therein they think we are too presumtuous and tho they find none but such mild wayes Opposeing Popery they have other Weapons than Prayers and Tears viz severe Laws to use against the Dissenting Protestants and should they ever engage in half the Villanie the Papists do which God forbid and I hope ther 's no fear they should they would find Axes and Halters enough to use against them and they inveigh against them and Revile them so bitterly as if they already thought the use of those Impliments too long forborne altho' our Laws Provide no such Punishment against thein but against all those that acknowledg a forreign Jurisdiction or take orders from the Sea of Rome they do And I protest Neighbour no thing in the World is to me a greater Mistery than to fee and consider how strangly many of our Divines whom I ought in Charity to believe far enough from Popery behave themselves in this Point Tory. Well Whig Prithe tell me now Ingeniously what Methods thou wouldest have taken to prevent Popery Whig I 'le tell thee Tory as well as I can my full desires in it And first of all since the Papists after all the Connivence and favour that hath been shewn them * L. Scrogs Speech at Coalmans Tryal by a too mercyful King have so ungratefully and monstrously Plotted against the Government and the Protestants of England aud continue still to do it I would have the Laws put in severe Execution against them I would have a time given them to quit the Realm and if those that are by Law Guilty of Death would not go I would have them brought to Tryal and Execution And if those severe Courses were for a while taken we might hope to be rid of those Pestilent vermine with whom we are now so much Troubled And fince we that are True Loyal Subjects by our Oathes of Allegance and Supremacy are Sowrn to defend and maintain the Protestant Religion and to suppress Popery I think it becomes all good men in their several Stations and capacities what in them lies to be Concurring with them to the same ends And truly Neighbour Tory I think we are Highly accountable to Almighty God for our Neglect if we all do not colour utmost to defend the Protestant Religion as it is now established in England and to Oppose Popery for how can we expect Pardon at the hands of God if we tamely suffer his Truth to be rooted out from among us and somthing introduc'd in the place of it that shall bear the name of the Doctrine of of the Gospel of Christ but patronise under that fair and glorious name the Worst of Villanies and abominable crimes that either Pagans or Mahometans would blush to heare of And tho the Papists may impudently deny this yet it 's easie enough to prove it out of the W. N. things of many of their eminent men by their Cannons Bulls Decretals c. And their Constant Practise I am sorry to say this of them for there are many of them I know fine Gentlemen and men of an extraordinary Sweetness and pleasantness of humour but if we look on these men in their Religious Capacity and as they are set on by their Priests tho they are of so sweet amicable and friendly Temper yet would they cut mine and a thousand Hereticks Throats to advance the Holy Roman Catholique Cause so that they must Degenerate from being men and become Barbarous savage and Inhuman that so they may be True Christians Tory. You are very Violent Neighbour against the Papists and I hope you believe worse of them then indeed they are But have a care of talking as you do of Opposeing popery for if a Popish Prince Should ever come to Feigne over us can you believe he would Establish the Protestant Religion as it is now Enacted by Law which is a Crime so black and Odious that every Papist that hath the least spark of Religion or Honesty will be very careful to Avoid Whig I doubt not Neighbour but that I have always behav'd my self with as much I Loyalty as you or any other Tory in England and have as deep a Sense of nay Allegiance and Duty to my natural and Lawful Prince as the Loyallest Subject of you all I own it to be a thing most wicked and Dishonest to Oppose or Rebel against my Lawful Prince And I believe the Subjects ought by all Lawful ways and means to look after the Conversation of their Laws and Priviledges And as for Popery I protest Neighbour I think you and I and all True English men ought to Oppose it to our utmost power and to adventure our lives and fortunes against it at any time whosoever they are that openly and forciebly endeavour to introduce it upon us For my part I declare I had rather be cut in pieces in the Field if fighting against it that to be brought to the Stake at any Time under it's power And I think I acquit my duty to God and my Country best in so doing But if it pleases God after we have done what we can to prevent it to suffer it to be Established over us then is the time I think for us to shew our faith in suffering under it Tory Neighbour I cannot be satisfied in my Judgment that I may Lawfully Oppose Popery For there is no crime I would more Cautiously Shun than Rebellon And since the Nation stands in so Hazardous condition let us all pray that God will be pleased long to preserve his present Majesty to Reign over us Dureing whose time we may expect Peace and Tranquillity to be continued amongst us Whig I Heartily beseech God to grant him many and happy days and that not only because our happyness and security Depends upon his Life but because he is my natural and Lawful Prince and as he is so we ought to pray for endeavour his happiness posterity cut of that natural Love and allegiance that we ought to bear to him And of this mind are many thousands reproach fully called Whigs Tory. In this we agree in our Love to our Prince tho as some have ordered the matter t is a very hard thing to believe you honest notwithstanding all your Oathes and protestations but of this Enough Whig Time wall discover it and so farwel Neighbour Tory. LONDON Printed for J Adams