our Saviour saith there is no man that shall doe a miracle in my name that can lightly speake evill of me No more will men easily be brought to make refuse or untruth of any such opinion which hath been and still continues such a Benefactresse unto them Ministers may truly say in such cases Beneficium accepi libertatem vendidi i. by receiving a benefit I have sold my liberty Fifthly many are not able to be baptized with the baptisme wherewith Paul was baptized Act. 17. 18. where he was charged to bee a setter forth of new Gods they are not able to beare the reproach of being teachers of new doctrines of being charged with whimzies and Independent Crotchets of trading in Apes avd Peacocks c. and so resolve to hold on in such a way wherein though they may meet with some reproofes yet they are sure of farre more with them then they can feare being against them Sixthly some think it a point of humility to build upon other mens foundations and feare they should pollute the memories and honour of Calvin Beza and other famous lights in the Church of God if they should recede from their principles in the least Seventhly some have laesum principium a maimed principle of seeing any thing that is new except they see it first cannot stoop so low as to carry any mans honor after him especially that converseth upon the earth with him Pascitur in vivis livor nor yet so farre disparage their own parts and abilities as to judge any thing which is of a new discovery to be Truth except they bee some wayes or other interessed in the discovery of it Ingenio qui vult cedere rarus erit There is a notion unsound as it seemes to me of a kind of knowledge supposed to be in God called Scientia media lately started amongst the Schoolmen and how doe the great masters of that learning contend amongst themselves for the primacie of that invention Fonseca stands up and tells the world that he was the first that observed it amongst his Conimbrians Nay rather saith Molina I am he that first discovered it amongst my Eborans In comes Lessius from amongst his Lovanians and takes away this Crown from them both and sets it upon his own brain Eighthly some are of opinion that matters of truth in point of Church-government are neither too great nor too good to bee sacrificed upon the service of peace though Luthers saying was that unus apex verbi major est coelo terra i. the least tittle or poynt of the word of God is greater then heaven and earth Ninthly some are more addicted to Authors then Arguments for the furnishing of their judgements and regulating their consciences in matters of Religion and then it is no marvell if these make Silver and Gold of the Presbyteriall and Hey and Stubble of the Congregationall way though it bee true also on the other hand that in very many Authors and those of Classique authority both ancient and modern there are manifesta rotae vestigia cernendi manifest prints and footsteps of this way Tenthly the Congregationall way puts Ministers upon a more immediate dependence upon God and his providence for matter of maintenance and outward accommodation and how few are there but had rather see then beleeve have the knowne Lawes of a State then the unknowne purposes and decrees of heaven the vouchers of their livelihood and supports to such a proportion or degree Eleventhly some it's like are afraid lest the wrath and discontent of the generality of the people of the Land should evince the error and untruth of the Congregationall way by offering violence to those that shall hold it forth in practice and so chuse rather to build upon the peoples generall acceptation of the Presbyterian way which they cannot much question as an unquestionable demonstration of the truth and goodnesse thereof Twelfthly and lastly others probably are jealous and foresee that they shall not be able to give that quarter of contentment to many great persons and men in place of authority in the Congregationall way which they know they may in the Presbyterian Yea they cannot lightly but foresee that in the practice of the Congregationall way they shall in all likelihood and without the gracious hand of God preventing contract the odium and ill will of many great ones who under God have power to grind their faces and break their bones And who will be willing to study and take pains and be earnest with God in prayer night and day for the conviction of such a Truth which being discovered will either expose a man to all that danger of hardship and misery in the world which we speak of or else doe him a worse displeasure then so by tormenting his conscience in case he shall refuse to be so exposed These with many other like reasons there are why Ministers rather then others may more generally incline to fall in rather with the Presbyterian then the Congregationall way and consequently why Magistrates and people who see much by their eyes should fall in also and yet such a constellation no signe from heaven but onely from the earth the element made to be trampled under foot of the truth righteousnes of that Way But that I may not be mistaken nor leave the least touch or tast of offence in the mind of any man by occasion of the reasons insisted upon I solemnly professe as in the presence of God that I intend no ill reflexion upon any of my brethren in the Ministery who are contrary minded to me in point of Church-government as such in any of them nor to infinuate as if they either divisim or conjunctim were swayed in their judgements by any of the said motives in the present controversie but to demonstrate against my Antagonist that such tentations are very incident to the nature of man yea even when it is under the best accomplishments of nature industry grace it self and consequently that his argument drawne A multitudine taliter sentientium is of little force I freely acknowledge that Ministers very possibly may have yea I verily beleeve that many have the Presbyterian way in their hearts who never consulted with any of those Oracles about the bringing of it in thither and that many of this judgement are as candid free unspotted and untouched by any of those respects in their way as many who imbrace the Congregationall way are in theirs Yet 4. I must answer this one thing further to my Repliers Argument that the testimony of a few godly persons having little or nothing of this world to accommodate their judgements but a thousand things to distance and distaste them is in reasonablenesse and fairnesse of construction of more consideration for the averment of a truth then the judgement of many who have the Sunne Moone and twelve Starres to give light unto them I mean all or most of
a thousand men inconvenienced in their temporalls then one righteous soul wounded in his spiritualls yea or then one sin committed to prevent all those inconveniences Vna Dei gloria saith Calvin a great Presbyterian praeferri meretur centum mundis Yea and one greater then Calvin I mean the Apostle Paul saith neither saith he any thing more then what an whole Christian State or Nation is bound to say If meat offendeth my brother I will eat no flesh whilest the world standeth that I may not offend my brother 1 Cor. 8. 13. But 2. Whereas wee still heare of wars and rumors of wars from Presbyteriall pens of infinite inconveniences and disturbances and turnings of all things upside down in States as if they should never die any other death in case any other Government should be indured but their own the truth is that such predictions or pretences rather as these are but a kind of politique agents sent forth to negotiate their Cause with the ignorance and simplicity of the generality of men who being indifferent for matter of Church-government but of firmly-resolv'd judgements to keep themselves as far from all that which is called trouble or disturbances as possibly they can are apt to drink in the impressions of all overtures or pretences which sound that way as fishes drink water and so are made Proselytes of a zealous inspiration for the Classique Consistory Primus in orbe Deos fecit timor That mixture of ignorance and feare which is commonly found in vulgar constitutions may easily be wrought and fashion'd by a politique hand almost into what apprehensions and indeavours suitable a man desireth if his design in this kind exceed not the compasse and content of nature for the darknesse of ignorance hath no communion at all with the kingdome of light but being in conjunction with an awakened passion of feare it disposeth the hearts and souls of men to receive any superstitious impressions of what shape and from soever the intellectus agens or hee that worketh upon it shal desire For my part I am not able to calculate the least rational proportion or conexion between a variety or diffrence of Church-government the distractions or disturbances in a State nor can I easily beleeve that all the Presbyterian Writers themselves do truly unfainedly fear any such effect from such a cause though some peradventure may For what if every congregation or Parish in about London had a different government or way of ordering their Church-affairs as they generally have somewhat more or lesse differing in the ordering and managing of their Vestries or Parochiall civill affaires the one being supposed as agreeable to the civill Lawes of the State as the other and each Parish respectively satisfied and well apaid with their own government I am not able to discerne nor cast it in my thoughts how the peace or safety of the civill State should suffer in the least by it But I can very easily conceive how a State may be very probably disturbed and I can give instances of many that have been by an universall compulsion of all the subjects thereof to one and the same Religion yea and how by the like compulsion to one and the same Church-government It is very strange to me that they that know and how generally it is knowne what variety of Churches and Church-government yea and professions of Religion there are and have for a long time been in the dominion of the States of Holland and withall how pacate flourishing and free from disturbance this State hath been and againe how that not onely a forme of Church-government differing from that kinde of government which is more generally practised throughout the kingdome of France but even a different Religion also have without the least occasion of inconvenience or disturbance to the State yea I might say to the great advantage and benefite of the State been tolerated yea little lesse then countenanced and that neer the very heart chiefe places of this Kingdom very strange I say to me it is that they that cannot lightly but know these things besides many other instances in other States and Republicks of like consideration should yet pretend fears yea certainties of I know not what inconveniences and disturbances to the State if any more Church-governments then one should take place or bee endured in it They that shall please to peruse page 23. of the Reply of the two brethren to A. S. shall finde many Scriptures of a friendly and harmlesse consistence of severall Religions and therefore doubtlesse of severall Church-governments in the same State besides some others And Lucas Osiander in his Epitome of the Ecclesiasticall History written by the Magdeburgenses in the 6th Century relates severall examples of successfull issues and events of such mutuall tolerations as wee now speak of Troubles and disturbances of States are far more like to be the fruits and consequents of rigour and hard measure measured out unto the Saints then of favour or condescension unto them for their accommodation They that think a State should work wisely for it self by any hard intreaty of the servants of God have forgotten wherefore Pharoah and his great host perished together in the red Sea Whereas p. 19. he taxeth me with a default that I neither discover unto him what that Way is which I there so earnestly plead for nor produce any one text to prove it Christs own way nor one example to warrant it c. My Answer is 1. I suppose that an understanding man as all men acknowledge Mr. Prynne to be that prosecutes a Way with so much violence and bitternesse as hee doth the Way there pleaded for understandeth it all over through and through and so needeth not any further discovery of it to be made unto him Such a man doubtlesse will take heed above all caution of stumbling at that stone above all other whereat the Princes of this world stumbled and were broke to pieces when they crucified the Lord of glory before they knew who he was 1 Cor. 2. 8. 2. I answer further that it was no part of my design or intent in those Sermons to justifie the Way so oft there mentioned simply or as a Way of Christ against all contradiction but only to justifie it against those common exceptions and vulgar objections there insisted upon and to demonstrate that it may be Christs own Way notwithstanding any thing that hath yet appeared to take away that crowne from it and so upon this consideration to perswade men as they love and tender their own safety and peace not to lay violent hands upon it untill they should have better grounds to judge it none of Christs Way then yet they had any This being the adequate and precise tenor of my intention in that Discourse I kept my self close to it and so had no occasion to argue any thing or very little in a cataskenastique or positive Way for it But because I
Doctrine and Reformation did but touch to render them the hatred and indignation of the world Yea and Luther himself doubted not to raise it to a generall maxime or observation that Godly men must beare the name title of men that are seditious schismaticall and Authors of infinite evills and troubles in the world That great and blessed alteration and change that God made in the State of Religion and things of his worship by the sending of Jesus Christ into the world and the preaching of the Gospel is called the shaking of the Heavens and the Earth because of the great concussions troubles distractions rents and divisions in the great concussions troubles distractions rents and divisions in the world which did and doe yet daily accompany them by reason of the pride ignorance and unbeliefe of those which oppose either the one or the other And as the Doctrine of the Gospel in the generall never comes amongst any people in excellencie and power but that it smites the foundations of that unitie and peace wherein it finds them makes breaches upon them renting one part of them from another upon which discontents and disorders follow like the waves of the Sea in like manner every considerable piece or branch of the Gospel in the first discovery and breaking out of it even in such places and among such persons where and amongst whom the Doctrine of the Gospel in the generall hath been of a long time professed by reason of the strangenesse of it and that contrarietie and crossenesse which it beares to the judgements and wills of many must needs be offensive and distastefull unto them and so occasion distractions disorders discontents So that Mr. Prynne by representing my Parish as divided disordered by my Independent way hath rather given testimony to the truth and Evangelicalnesse of it then brought any argument to disprove either And to say as he doth a few lines after that he needs no other evidence to prove it a schismaticall by-path and so no way of Christ then the schismes and discords which it hath raised in other Parishes is just such a saying and resolution as that of the High Priest against our Saviour when he rent his cloaths and said He hath spoken blasphemie What further need have we of Witnesses The blasphemie of Christ and the guiltinesse of Independencie touching the matter of division and disorder are sins much of the same order and calculation To his fourth and last reason which renders him a man of jealousie against the way of Independencie and prevailes with him so farre that he cannot as he saith think it a Way of Christ wee Answer 1. That this way is no Pioner or underminer of Parliamentarie Authoritie nor hath Mr. Prynne found it nor ever shall find it such the principles of this way being none other then what are laid in the Scriptures unpossible it is that it should destroy or pull downe any thing which they build up Therefore if Mr. Prynne hath ought in this kind against any of the sons of this way let him implead these in a lawfull triall and spare not but if for their sakes he will needs blaspheme the way he will open a dore of example very effectuall for those that are opposite to his way of Presbyterie to heap shame infamie and reproach upon the head thereof without end yea and for those also that are enemies to Christian Religion to render that as hatefull wicked vile in the eyes of men as themselves can desire it should be esteemed If all the errors and misprisions found in the writings of Presbyteriall men should be charged upon the way of Presbyterie as the Authoresse and Foundresse of them she would appeare ten times more erroneous and deformed then her Independent adversaries are yet willing to judge or conceive her to be 2. For the Sons or Patrons of this way as Mr. Prynne pleaseth to term them I verily beleeve that there is none of them all but are willing ready and chearfull to invest Parliaments with as full high and compleat a power and Authoritie as are by any by all the rules and principles either of reason or Religion competible unto men If Mr. Prynne or any other of the Presbyterian way conceive that in times of Parliaments when they apprehend them like to be for them they may and ought to say that Gods are come down to us in the likenesse of men we confesse that we cannot our reason our Religion will not beare it at our hands subscribe any such Apotheosie But let him and his first survey the territories patrimonie and heritance of Heaven the royalties and prerogative of the most high God and of the Lord Jesus Christ blessed for ever and set them out by the line and rule either of reason or Religion and look what power Authoritie Jurisdiction soever shall be found situate lying and being without the compasse of this line no waies enterfeering with those that are within wee all unanimously universally professe that incunctanter and with both our hands we will cast and heap it upon the Parliament asking no further question for conscience sake Therefore whereas he challengeth this way for devesting Parliaments of all manner of Jurisdiction in matters of Religion and Church-Government we answer 3. That neither this way nor the Patrons of it devest them of any or any manner of Authoritie in what matters soever unto which Mr. Prynne or any other Master of the Presbyterian way is able Salvo jure coeli to entitle them For jurisdiction in matters of Religion and Church-Government we willingly give unto them the same line measure and proportion herein to the full which himself asserteth unto them from the examples of those Kings and Princes Cyrus Artaxerxes Darius c. which he insists upon p. 20. Who as he here said enacted good and wholsome Lawes for the worship honour and service of the true God Let him instance particularly in any such Law or Lawes enacted by any of them and doubtlesse none of us will denie the Parliament a power of enacting exceptis excipiendis the like But if Mr. Prynnes intent be to make Precedent of whatsoever was enacted or done by any or all of these Heathen Kings Princes and States to warrant a lawfulnesse of power in the Parliament of enacting or doing the same we conceive that he neither hath nor knows where to have any thing to justifie such an intent I trust that that Law enacted by Nebuchadnezzar and his Nobles Dan. 3. 6. That whosoever falleth not downe and worshippeth shall the same houre be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace shall not be drawne by him into precedent for the vindication of a Parliamentary Jurisdiction in matters of Religion and Church-Government 4. Whereas to make good his last charge against the way so often smitten by his pen he referres to the passage of the two Independent Brethren recited p. 3. of his Independencie examined
of Religion worship and Church-Government alwayes have been and ever will be exposed unto The point of agreeablenesse to the word of God in Lawes and Statutes about matters of Religion will be a farre longer suite and Question between Legislators in that kind and conscientious subjects then ever any Chancerie suite was or is like to be 3. To me it is a question whether in this assertion at least understood according to the proper importance of the words Men have power to make Laws and Statutes in matters of Religion worship c. agreeable to the word of God there be not contradictio in adjuncto as Logicians speak It is a very hard matter for me to conceive how any thing should be agreeable to the Word of God at least in matters of Religion worship c. but onely that which for the spirit matter and substance of it is the word of God it self There is no great agreeablenesse between that which is necessarie and that which is unnecessarie between that which is indulgent and favourable to the Saints and others in point of libertie and that which inthrals and brings them into bondage between that which is of divine inspiration and that which is of humane Now certain it is that whatsoever is imposed upon men by the word of God is necessarie and of divine inspiration and whatsoever the word of God doth not impose upon men it doth it in a way of a gracious libertie and indulgence unto men And as certain it is that whatsoever shall be imposed upon the Saints or others by men especially in matters of Religion worship c. which for the matter and substance of it is not the very word of God it self is first unnecessarie for otherwise we must make the Word of God imperfect and defective even in matters of necessitie which is Popery in the highest and secondly it is but of humane inspiration except we hold Enthusiasme and the revelations eccentrick to the Scriptures are yet authentique and of propheticall authority thirdly and lastly it is an abridgement of the libertie a cancelling of that indulgence wherewith God in his Word hath gratified the world Therefore whatsoever shall be imposed by men upon men in matter of Religion worship c. under a pretence of an agreeablenesse to the word of God in case it be not in the sense declared the very word of God it self it can have no other agree thlenesse with this word then Pelop's shoulder which if Poets feign not was made of yvorie had with the other limbs and members of his body which were all living and sound flesh Yea and whether any Law or Statute can in any sense be said to be agreeable to the word of God which shall make the Saints servants and bondmen where God in his Word hath either made them or left them free I refer to further and more mature consideration But 4. And lastly Suppose it were granted as a thing convenient that some should be intrusted or invested with a power of making Laws and Statutes in matters of Religion worship c. provided they be agreeable to the Word of God yet in asmuch as the making of such Laws and Statutes upon such terms necessarily requireth the most exact and profound knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures I cannot conceive that unsanctified persons or rude multitudes should be Authorized by God or by any principle of sound reason to have the nomination or election of those men but rather another Generation who may in reason be conceived to have a more excellent spirit of discerning of such abilities in men then they When men stand in need of the help and advise of a Physician Lawyer or Divine they do not addresse themselves to a company of children playing together in the market place as our Saviour speaks to nominate or vote amongst them what person in any of these professions they should imploy commit their concernments unto No more did God ever issue any commission out of Heaven to unsanctified persons rude multitudes men ignorant of God and of the Scriptures to nominate or chuse for him who or what men he should imploy to make Lawes and Statutes for his Saints and Churches in matters of Religion and which concerne his worship A man of ordinary discretion and that knows any thing of the nature or disposition of the Fox will never chuse a Fox to be his Caterer as our English Proverb hath it To his sixt and last Argument I answer and end 1. That it is not alwayes found that those who have no skill at all in Law Physicke or Architecture have yet judgement and reason enough to make choyce of the best Lawyers Physicians Architects when they need their help If this were true these professions would prove malignant unto and eat up the far greatest part of their own children and professors there would be very few in any of them that ever should have imployments For who is there that would set a bungler on work that hath judgement and reason enough to chuse a Master-workman Especially considering what our Engish Proverb saith The best is best cheape There is no man will ride upon an ox that may have a well-manag'd and mettal'd gelding to carrie him But 2. Suppose it should be granted as universally true that men who have no skill at all in the said professions yet had judgement and reason enough to make choyce of the best in every of them respectively when they stood in need of their help yet this supposition must be made withall that these best Practitioners which according to the other supposition will be chosen have given a sufficient account proofe and that to publick satisfaction of their respective abilities in their severall professions Otherwise how shall they who have no skill in their professions come to know or understand so much as by conjecture who are the best in them This being so Mr. Prynnes comparison or parallel halts right-downe Because many of those who are by the Laws of the Land eligible into places of Parliamentarie trust and power yea haply many of those who are of the best and richest accomplishment for the discharge of that part of this trust which Mr. Prynne will needs suppose belongeth to them I meane in making Lawes in matters of Religion worship Church-Government c. agreeable to the word of God never have given any publick account or proofe nor perhaps ever had opportunitie to doe it of those abilities which God hath given them in that kinde And if so how should the rude multitudes or the generalitie of the people ever come to know or understand who are the best or fittest men to be chosen into those great places of trust and power 3. When men stand in need of the help either of a Lawyer Physician or Architect it is a far easier matter to know how to chuse a man in any of these professions without running the hazard of much
detriment in his occasions then it is for men to know how to chuse men tolerably qualified for Parliamentary imployment especially if one part of this imployment consists in making Lawes Statutes in matters of Religion worship c. agreeable to the word of God The reason of the difference is plaine Recourse is made to Lawyers and so to Physicians Architects respectively onely for one kind of help or imployment and that such which is proper to their profession and wherein their abilitie and sufficiencie is or very possibly may be sufficiently knowne But Parliamentarie service or imployment consisting according to Mr. Prynnes notion as well in making Church-lawes in matters of Religion worship agreeable to the word of God as in framing Laws politique to accommodate the civill affaires of the Common-wealth which are imployments of a very differing nature hardly incident unto and very rarely found in one and the same person it must needs be conceived to be a matter of very great difficultie and requiring a very choyce and excellent spirit of discerning to make a commendable yea or a competent choice of men for that investiture and trust Yea himself 〈◊〉 acknowledgeth little lesse then an utter inconsistencie of respective abilities in one and the same person for these so different imployments For here he requires both Politicians and Statesmen os fit to be consulted with a suit a Church-Government to the Civill State and likewise an Assembly of Divines to square it by and to the word But in as much as whatsoever an Assembly of Divines shall determine in or about Churh-Government or other matters of Religion cannot passe into an Act Law or Statute but by the superveening of Parliamentarie interest upon their determinations and there beeing every whit as great if not farre greater abilities in Divinitie and knowledge of the Scriptures requisite to enable men rightly to discerne and judge whether a Church-Government or other Decision in matter of Religion be agreeable to the word of God as there are to discourse and make out that in either kind which is agreeable thereunto yea and further it being no waies either Christian or reasonable that a Parliament should passe that into an Act Law or Statute as agreeable to the word of God and obliege an whole Kingdome under mulcts and penalties to submit unto it accordingly which themselves are not able to discerne whether it be indeed agreeable unto the word of God or no these three things I say duly considered evident it is that it is a matter almost of infinite difficultie and therefore not so obvious to unsanctified persons and rude multitudes as Mr. Prynnes would carrie it to discerne or make choice of persons of a due temper and composition for Parliamentarie operations Mr. Prynnes supposition being admitted viz. that making Lawes in matters of Religion as well as in civill affaires is a part of these operations To set then his comparison upright wee must state it thus Suppose Mr. Prynne were of none of the three Professions he speaks of neither Lawyer nor Physician nor Architect but stood in need of the help of them all having 1. a suite at Law of very great concernment to him 2. a dangerous distemper or disease upon his body 3. an house to build for his necessary accommodation and in this posture of necessities were necessitated or limited to make choyce of three men but all of one and the same profession either all Lawyers or all Physicians or all Architects to minister unto him in all his respective concernments and necessities I beleeve that under such a constellation of circumstances and occasions as these though he be a man of farre greater judgement and reason then the generalitie of men are yet he would not find it so easie a matter to satisfie himself in the choyce of his men within the compasse of any one of the three professions This is the true state and case of the difficultie of Parliamentarie Elections upon Mr. Prynnes supposition of Parliamentarie interest and power 4. Suppose yet further that unsanctified persons and rude multitudes had skill enough to elect the most eminent and ablest men for Parliamentary service yet who knoweth not but that there is somewhat yea much more then knowledge of what is a mans dutie required to make him willing to doe it To him that knoweth to doe good and doth it not to him it is sin saith James Jam. 4. 17. It is no wayes reasonable to think that unsanctified persons and men addicted to sinfull lusts and pleasures should willingly and by the ducture of their own inclinations put a power of making Lawes into the hands of such men who they know are professed enemies to those lawlesse waies of theirs and therefore are like being interessed in such a power to make Lawes for the restraint and punishment of them That God when he pleaseth may by an extraordinarie hand of Providence over-rule the natures and dispositions of men in this kind and serve unfanctified persons in their Parliamentary Elections as he did the Syrian host of old which he led blindfold into the midst of Samaria when they thought they had been going to Dothan is not denied yea it is acknowledged that in grace and mercy to this Nation he hath stretched out that very hand of Providence we speake of in the choyce of many members of the Honourable Assembly of Parliament whose perseverance in a faithfull discharge of their imployment declares that their Election was more from God then from men Therefore that one word of Mr. Prynnes which follows p. 24. viz. That the choyce which your vilest and most unworthy of men have made this Parliament may for ever refute this childish reason the corner stone of your Independent fabrique fastened together with Independent crotchets unable to abide the Test this one word I say is no word either of reason or of truth An happy election made by men over-acted by God in the action doth no more prove either a proportionablenesse of wisdome or a sutablenesse of affection in such persons to make such a choyce then that praise which God hath ordained and which he accordingly draws out of the mouths of babes and sucklings proves these babes and sucklings to be indued with a naturall strength and abilitie of yeelding such praise unto God or then the service which the Ravens did the Prophet in bringing unto him bread and flesh duly morning and evening proves that they had a principle of reason and understanding to know and to consider the necessities of godly and faithfull men or that such men ought to renounce their estates and callings and to depend upon Ravens for their sustenance And besides how doth the election of so many members of this Parliament who stand by their trust with faithfulnesse and honour more refute then the election of so many unworthy ones who have not onely turned their back but head also upon both confirm my reason not
made use of in this kind or the like for we have shewed a manifest and main disproportion in them but with these and such as these which follow Why not a spirituall extraction out of a Secular root as well as a man out of a mouse or of water out of a flint or of the element of fire out of the midst of the Sea He might rationally enough have argued and concluded here Why not the one as well as the other But 5. Whereas his Margine demandeth Why not a spirituall extraction out of a secular root as well as himselfe extracts many spiritual doctrines out of Gamaliels Secular speech My answer is that hee hath made this demand at the perill of his owne reputation in what he had said but in the former page where he supposeth that God powred out a spirit of prophesie upon Gamaliel as hee had formerly done upon Balaam and Saul If Gamaliel spake as the spirit of prophesie which was poured out upon him gave him utterance his speech was not secular but spirituall and divine And 2. Suppose there was no spirit of prophesie upon Gamaliel when he spake that speech from which I extract my Doctrines yet the speech it selfe being for the matter tenor and substance of it nothing but what is fully agreeable to the undoubted word of God elsewhere which I clearly demonstrate in the particular doctrine handled in those Sermons it is not to be reputed Secular though the person speaking it had been Secular but Divine because the matter of it being a truth of Divine revelation elswhere is Divine This saying Jesus Christ is the Sanne of God or the holy One of God is not therefore a Devilish saying because the Devill spake it but an holy or divine saying or sentence because the truth contained in it which is the matter of it is from God But 3. the person speaking it was Ecclesiasticall a Doctor of the Law Acts 5. 34. 4. And lastly it was about matters of the Church and so Ecclesiasticall also 6. Whereas in the context of the same margine hee calls my principall Argument as he calls it drawn from the non-jurisdiction of the seven Churches of Asia one over another a meer Independencie giving this for the ground or reason of this so severe an award that these Churches were under different civill Dominions and not members of the selfe-same Christian Republicke I answer 1. That why he should call this my principall Argument which I doe not so much as mention nor make any argument at all as least in those Sermons against which his pen riseth up in this discourse with so much indignation I am behind hand in my understanding I suppose he would willingly make that my principall Argument from the dint whereof he knowes how to contrive some plausible evasion and escape It was an wholsome admonition of Austin long since That we are very inclinable and prone rather to seeke out how to answer or evade those things which are brought to refute our error then to minde that which is wholsome that so wee may bee free from error But 2. If that be a reason why the Churches in Asia had no jurisdiction one over another because they were not members of the selfe-same Christian Republicke then neither had the Church of Jerusalem either divisim and by it selfe nor yet conjunctiâ—â— with others any power of jurisdiction over the Church of Antioch For neither were their Churches members of the selfe-same Christian Republicke no nor yet any other Churches in the Apostles dayes there being then no Christian Republick in the world 3. Neither can I well understand how the seven Churches of Asia should be under different civill dominions when as one and the same man had power to command that all the world should be taxed Luke 2. 1. Certain I am that Mr. Pryn doth not befriend either his owne exception or my understanding so farre as to inform what these different civill dominions were or under what or whose dominion every or any of these Churches did respectively consist The consideration whereof moderately inclines me to conceive that he put this peece of his answer to the making and affirmed it onely de bene esse that the seven Churches of Asia were under different civill dominions Is it not much more probable that the Churches of Jerusalem and Antioch which yet by the Assertors of Presbytery are generally and with importune confidence made confederate in Classique association were under different civill dominions Considering 1. that their Cities were two hundred miles distant one from the other a distance greater almost by an hundred miles then any two of the seven Churches of Asia stood one from the other as will appear presently And 2. that Judea was an intire Province by it self Luke 3. 1. is said to have been under the government of Pontias Pilate So that subjection under different civill dominions is not like to have been any obstruction in the way of those Asian Churches to impede their Presbyteriall conjunction had they felt the weight either of divine institution or of any Christian accommodation of their respective affaires lying upon them for the ingaging themselves in it 4. And lastly some that seeme to have perfect knowledge of those parts where these seven Churches with their respective Cities stood affirme that some of them were not situate above twelve miles distance from some others of them and that the greatest distance between any two of them was not above an hundred and twenty miles which is not the one half of the distance between many Churches in this Kingdom So that had the Presbyteriall combination or subordination of Churches been an ordinance of God there is little question to be made but that these Churches with their respective Angels especially under such an opportunity would have subjected themselves unto the will of God in this behalfe and not have remained single and uncombined in their government as they did If it be objected they were times of persecution wee answer So were they afterward when as men of the Presbyterian way suppose they had Presbyteries and after that when they had Episcopall government This hath been the case of the Protestants in France where they now have constantly have had a Presbyterial government So it is of the Papists in England where they have had ever since the Reformation a Papall jurisdiction And to speak to the particular so was it a time of persecution against the Presbyteriall government in Queen Elizabeths time and yet it was then exercised in severall places of this Kingdome See Rogers Preface to his Analysis of the Articles of Religion 6. Whereas he seemes to require a reprievement for his opinion onely till Independents can shew him better grounds against it then any yet produced and informe him why our representative Church and State should not of right enjoy and exercise as great or Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction over all particular persons