reckoneth vp the number of most notorious wicked Popes Napier Reuel p. 138. There haue beene thirteene adulterers Three common Stewes-haunters foure incestuous persons eleuen Sodomiticall persons seuen erectors of Stewes and two and twenty Necromancers And Henricus Echartus who in his booke called Papa Pharisaizans reckoneth vp the vilest heresies wherwith Popes haue been tainted Some Sadduces some Montanists Arrians Nestorians Eutychians and Epicures and patrons of wickednesse Innocent 4 defended for gold any luxury in the Clergie Sixtus 4 gaue liberty of Sodometry to the Cardinals Alexander 4 sent into England for money absolution to all periured and wicked persons Serg Paul Are these things true is it possible that so many monsters should sit in the Apostolike chaire yet it is true the office doth not priuiledge from sinne alse Iudas being an Apostle should not haue been a Deuill As Iudas therefore was no preiudice to the Apostolicall office no more it may bee are some wicked Popes to the religion by them maintained Else by the like reason the wickednesse of some of your Bishops Ministers would be an argument against your religion Paul For the truth of these things I haue alledged my authors who in these sifting times would not haue written thus if they could haue been disproued And howsoeuer the wickednesse of ordinary persons of the Clergy or Laity cannot minister an argument against their religion yet when one that is aboue all as an Oracle giueth Edicts to all and guideth the ship as he pleaseth is notoâ—iously wicked there needs no greater argument of a wicked religion Because the religion professed by vs is not founded vpon the Bishop or Minister but vpon Gods Word but the religion of the Church of Rome is founded vpon the Pope seeing it is their common Plea that their Church is founded vpon S. Peter and his successors Such then as the Pope is such must the religion built vpon him needs bee for so much as the building alwayes standeth and falleth with the foundation It is a silly shift to say he may erre as he is a man in manners but not as Pope in doctrine For what ground can there be that the holy Ghost will dwell to direct in the truth vpon all occasions in a nasty sty of vncleane spirits For how is the holy Spirit if not by abominable sinnes quenched and chaced away It is a priuiledge of such as feare God Psal 25.12 to be directed in the right and not of Balaam or Caiaphas though they might exâ—raordinarily prophesie as Balaams Asse spake Elywas You must not thinke yet to beare vs down thus as Antichristian and abominable in our religion no no although all were as you haue said yet wee want not the strongest argument of all which must stop all mouths the very finger of God which hath often manifested it selfe miracles wrought at Saints sepulchres and images by exorcising of Priests to the casting out of Deuils by Crosses and Holy Water vvhich haue often put the Deuill to flight and almost all points of our religion haue beene confirmed by miraculous reuelations to some holy persons of vnsuspected credit who haue vpon their faith affirmed the same Paul These miracles make much on your side indeed to proue your religion Antichristian Thes Reuel and your Pope Antichrist seeing it is said that he should come with lying wonders and should cause fire to come downe from heauen to these ducing of many Miracles indeed had their vse in the first propagating of the Gospell 1 Cor. 14. but they were for vnbeleeuers smce they haue ceased as needlesse euen as to vse the similitude of Gregory the husbandman hauing newly planted an Orchard watereth it But when it is well rooted hee watereth it no more Deut. 23. If any giue a signe amongst the people of God to proue any new matter in religion not propounded in the vvritten Word of God hee is pronounced a false Prophet Moreouer many of your miracles haue been proued coosenages by which we may ghesse what the rest are and for reuelations they may well bee counted rather delusions of Satan who is ready to tempt men according to their humours and superstitious Monkes to more superstitions Serg. Paul Are miracles then of so little force now What meaneth our Saniour Christ when hee maketh this a signe of the true faith Mark 16.17 He that beleeueth these signes shall follow he shall cast out Deuils lay his hands vpon the sicke and heale them c. Paul Miracles were very frequent indeed then as was needfull but it was not to bee expected that these signes should follow alwayes when al countreys and Nations being conuerted the truth had gotten other sufficient testimonie vvithout signes Onely God doth something miraculously oftentimes for the credit of his Gospell in all ages as by punishing extraordinarily the enemies of his truth and blessing such as fauour it Thus the persecuting Emperors vvere extraordinarily iudged and the first Christian Emperor extraordinarily blessed in that they all for the space of three hundred yeares liued most turbulent liues had most vnquiet estates and almost all of them suffered by violent deaths after a short raigne but Constantine the first Christian Emperour liued long was euery where victorious and then reigned in peace and dyed in peace And of these miracles blessed be God we are full in this kingdome for Queene Mary that stood for Poperie had but a short time was extraordinarily disappointed of the hoped for successor of her owne body to the amazement of all and so was cut off in the prime of her age But Queene Elizabeth of blessed memory had a long time and the diuine protection did compasse her about as a shield against all treasons and conspiracies so that they were miraculously disappointed and hauing reigned in peace inticht her kingdom more then euer abated the pride of her enemies and mightily succoured other distressed Protestants in a good old age she departed in peace And since that time our gracious King that now raigneth whom God long preserue how miraculously both he and we all vnder him haue beene deliuered and in what peace he hath and doth still gouerne such mighty Nations like another Salomon in such tumultuous times it is so well knowne that I shall not need to speake And that blow which your Religion had at Blacke-Friers October 26 of this yeare by the onely hand of God both Teacher and people to the number of about an hundred persons being suddenly cut off at one of your Sermons and the first that hath beene publike to our Country-men since the suppression of Pope y and that vpon your Nouember 5 at vvhat time our ouerthrow thankes bee to God was in another yeare in vaine attempted that I say the like whereof was neuer heard was a very miracle to the confounding of your superstitions which you thought by degrees to bring in here againe and to crowde out the truth For howsoeuer we are all
Betweene Anno 1200 Hist Magd. Cent. 13. c. 2. and 1300 Gulielm de Sancto amers was banished for an heretike and had his bookes burnt and Robert Grosted Bishop of Lincolne greatly opposed the Pope Between An. 1300 and 1400 was Iohn Wickliffe professor of diuinitie in Oxford who opposed the Pope in sundry points Hist Magd. Cent. 14. And out of Greece came diuers by reason of the Turkish tyranny amongst whom Marsilius Patauinus was of most note he maintained that the Pope had no power ouer other Bishops much lesse ouer Kings Armachanus an Archb. in Ireland and Iohannes de Rupeseissa were of the same opinion also And after this Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prague with almost all the country of Bohemia were famous for standing for the truth Serg. Paul But these were but a few in an age neither could they make a Church how hapned it that there were no more till Wickliffes time Paul Where Bishops and learned teachers haue been stirred vp to stand for the truth there is no doubt but as lights of the world they did inlighten many more though they be to vs vnknowne Neither was the mysterie of iniquity growne to that height till about Wickliffes time and the dayes of the succeeding Worthies so that the Romane religion was not altogether so dangerous but now they being almost quite gone from Christ their superstitious deuotion increasing towards the Virgin Mary and the rest of the Saints satisfying for a mans owne sins in part being taught and the merit of workes and freedome of will set vp and the assurance of faith condemned and such horrible idolatry with the Masse more then euer committed they which had the Spirit of God in any measure within them could no longer forbeare but in great companies vtterly separate from the Church of Rome lest whilst they would bee worshippers of Christ they should become limmes of Antichrist to the destruction of their soules Elymas Nay rather are ye now become limmes of Antichrist by following Martin Luther a Monke that brake his Vow and maried a Nunne was of a notorious wicked life and had consultation with the Deuill and so went to the Deuill at the last and by following King Henry 8 a man so sensuall and tyranicall for these and such like were your leaders to this Schisme and not any good Spirit as yee pretend Paul In seeking to wound the truth through the sides of these men you doe but according to your accustomed manner it being one of the Pillars of your Religion to lay slanderous imputations vpon your Aduersaries as a late Writer of ours hath notably shewed Willet Tetrastul Papismi But as for Martin Luther it is well knowne that he was a man of great zeale for the truth and succeeded accordingly your Pope and all your power not being able to lay violent hands vpon him but that hee was preserued to dye in peace If there were any thing taxable in him in what holy man hath there not beene likewise it is no preiudice to the truth which hee stood for no more then Saint Pauls forepassed persecuting and blaspheming was to the Gospel And for King Henry 8 God can vse any instrument to beat down the pride of such an enemy as the Pope as be vsed Nebuchadnezzar to chastice idolatrous Iudah and the Syrian Presidents and Romane Emperours to destroy Christs enemies and to abrogate the legall seruice by burning vp the Temple and yet this made nothing the more for the credit of the Iewes Religion or discredit of the Christian thus aduanced But because you haue giuen mee so iust occasion I say that if the wickednesse and miscrable ends of chiefe erectors of any Religion be an argument of a bad religion as vndoubtedly it is the Religion of the Church of Rome is abundantly conuinced to bee such seeing so many Poper haue beene so notoriously wicked and perished so miserably and such apparant iudgements haue beene executed vpon others that hath holpen to aduance it Gregory the third who drew vp the Popedome to such a high pin was a most wicked man for when Phocas who had murthered Mauricius Platina and was therefore greatly taxed by the Patriarke of Constantinople for which hee was much offended with him hee sent his image to Rome and Gregory receiued it honourably and flattereth with this parricide but inioyed not long the honour of vniuersall Bishop thus attained for he dyed within nine moneths after And Phocas the founder of the primacy proued soone after a slothfull beast Pompon Latus Paul Diacon cruelly murthering many of the Nobles rauishing many Matrons and Virgins wallowing in dayly drunkennesse and acocrdingly was rewarded For hee was taken by Priscus and Heracleon and his hands being fast cut off then his priuy member he was beheaded and his body burnt in a brazen Bull R. Barus supplem Chron. Nancl. and all his posterity destroyed with him Siluester the second was a Coniurer and was slaine by the Deuil Iob. Marius when he was saying Masse in the Chappell of the Crosse of Ierusalem Iohn the 13 committed Incest with two of his Sifters and was slaine at the last in the act of Adultery Gregory the seuenth put out the eyes of Iohn the 15 and killed him with famine in the Castle of Saint Angelo that he might reigne in his stead and hauing laboured mightily to aduance the papall Sea he was shortly cut off by a sudden death and his body was drawne by the feet through the streets Fascic Temp. Otho 1. and pierced with speares by the Romanes Whereupon the History called Fosciculus temporâ—â— noreth that the Bishops of Rome were now adayes slaine as in the Primitiue Church but were not made Martyrs as they there was the like death but not the like cause thy suffered as wailde lambes following the Lambr Christ Plat. vit pontif these as ranâ—â—ing Wolues an empting a new Empire Gregory the ninth dyed in despaise Boniface the eighth dyed of madnesse Paul the second hauing yoted as much as euer did Hesiegabalus dyed of an Apoplexy Alexander the sixt committed Incest with his owne daughter whom also he maried to his sonue Pasquil Natal comes Hist l. 4. and was at the last poysoned by him Pius the fourth dyed in the very bosome of his Concubine Paul the third when he had waxed old in a filthy course of life dyed crying out my sinne is alwayes against mee And what should I reckon vp more whoso desireth to read further of them let him looke into Pelanus Dan. part 2. p. 467 and Parker of the Grosse who sheweth what whores and Ganimedes by name seuerall Popes haue had Sergius had Marozia Gregory the seuenth Matildis Alexander the sixt Lucretia all their daughters or Sisters Sextus the fourth had for his Ganimede Riarius Iulius the second Germanus Leo the tenth Hypolitus Iulius the third Innocentius c. And Napier who in his exposition vpon the Rouelation
AN ANTIDOTE AGAINST POPERY Confected out of Scriptures Fathers Councels and Histories WHEREIN DIALOGVE-wise are shewed the points grounds and antiquitie of the Protestant Religion and the first springing vp of the points of Popery together with the Antichristianisme thereof Being alone sufficient to inable any Protestant of meane capacitie to vnderstand and yeeld a reason of his Religion and to incounter with and foyle the Aduersary By Iohn Mayer B. D. and Pastor of the Church of little Wratting in Suffolke LONDON Printed by M. F. for Iohn Grismand and are to be sold at his Shop in Pauls Alley at the signe of the Gunne 1625. TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTY JAMES BY THE grace of God King of Great Britaine France and Ireland Defender of the Faith c. Dread Soueraigne AFter that I had compiled this ensâ—ing Dialogue I thought your Maiestie the most fit Maecenas for it both in respect of the matter and manner The matter is a Dispute about Religion both Protestant and Popish the manner is by vsurping certaine names occurring in the Acts of the holy Apostles and accommodating them so as may best befit these times amongst which the chiefe is Sergius Paulus before whom Paul and Elymas enter the lists with an ayme chiefely at the ouercomming of this honourable person The issue is according to Pauls desire the setling of Sergius Paulus in the truth so that with him there was no more place now for Elymas Your Maiestie hath beene much conuersant in disputations and now at length I vvill not say being setled for it appeareth sufficiently that there hath euer been a setlednesse and resolution in your Royall brest but not thinking good to lend an eare any longer to the friuolous arguments of such as haue sought your auersion from the Truth your MAIESTIE hath prouided that they shall haue no more copÄe of disputing within your whole iurisdiction The Worke I confesse is too sleighty to bee presented before so large an vnderstanding and the Author too meane to presume to so high a patronage Epistle Dedicatory vpon the Lords Prayer But forasmuch as your Maiestie hath acknowledged it to haue beene your owne course to dedicate your royall writings to fit persons with whom each Tract might best suite my hope is that my boldnesse shall haue pardon if in following so worthy an example I haue aspired to this dedication It hath bred much sollicitude in your Maiestie as your late directions touching preachers and preaching doe testifie to consider the dayly increase of Popish superstition euen within your Maiesties Dominions And wee your faithfull subiects cannot but haue a sympathy herein for which cause wee highly applauding that direction of instructing in the Principles of Religion doe apply our selues diligently to this Catecheticall kinde of teaching if haply the mobile vulgus might thus bee faster grounded And for mine owne part according to that slender skill which GOD hath giuen mee I haue by vvriting endeauoured to further this kinde of teaching English Catechisme and to hold to the patterne of the lesser authorized Catechisme for the auoiding of confusion by an vniforme proceeding wherein I haue not beene altogether frustrated of my end neither there being many Reuerend Diuines and others amongst whom this labour of mine hath beene so accepted as that it hath long agoe come to the third impression Now if my coniecture deceiue mee not another good helpe to preserue from this infection would bee some Antidote of our tenents and grounds and of Popish tenents and practices in the worship of God without all ground set vp either by aduantage taken of the darknesse or by force there beeing none able to make resistance in seuerall times and ages of the world especially if it might bee perspicuous and plaine to any capacitie and briefe for euery ones leisure and abilitie And such is this which I here present vnto your Sacred Maiestie the which or the like vnto which I could wish that euery one who is not furnished with better would make his vade mecum That Reuerend and learned Bishop of Meath hath lately put out a Worke in answere to a Iesuite of the noueltie of Poperie in so complete a manner as that a man would thinke as it was said of the answer of our blessed Sauiour none should dare to aske that question any more If this of mine comming after it should seeme superfluous my apologie is that our Church besides the greater hath also the lesser Catechisme Babes must haue their prouision as well as those that are stronger Your Maiesties care of the good of this Church committed vnto you herein like to that of Constantine in the matter of Arâ—ianisme as it hath much reioyced my heart and the hearts of many thousands that pray for the prosperitie of Sion so it hath incouraged mee to presse into your Sacred presence with this my Goates-haire not being able to bring better Your Maiestie I know hath no need of such Tracts but many of vs that bring presents in this kinde may bee glad to learne from your Pen and to receiue knowledge from your lips yea 1 King 10. â— blessed are they that stand alwayes in thy presence to heare thy wisedome Yet vouchsafe I beseech your Maiestie to suffer it to passe vnder the protection of your countenance to your people and I doubt not but the Protestant Religion shall hereby appeare vnto them as it is so amiable and rightly grounded and the Religion of the Church of Rome so corrupt and peruerting the grounds as that thousands which shall attentiuely and without preiudice reade it shall herein blesse God for you some that were ignorant of the differences of these religions and so standing indifferently affected being better informed some that were wauering through the seeming truth of that heresie being confirmed and some that were simply seduced and gone from vs being againe to the truth reduced to the great glory of God and to the fulfilling of the number of most loyall and faithfull subiects in whom the heart of your Maiesty may most safely trust The Father of lights who hath so enlightned your knowledge the Son that life who hath so viuified your heart and the Spirit that sire who hath so inflamed your zeale for the truth increase confirme and prosper this your knowledge life and zeale to the benefiting of many soules and to the ioyfull giuing vp of your Maiesties Accounts at the great day of reckoning Amen praieth he who is Your Maiesties most humbly deuoted subiect and seruant IOHN MAYER To all that conscionably inquire after the Truth that they may be saued both of the reformed Religion and of the Romane Catholike COurteous Reader thou mayest haply blame mee for my ouer-diligence in writing-so much and now vpon a subiect so throughly canuased already in diuers bookes of learned Authors But know that I haue beene drawne to doe this by the sollicitation of others being lâ—th of my selfe to interrupt my course in another tract
Anno 600 saith because we are redcemed wee haue this benefit that when we are taken away from the habitation of our flesh wee are presently earied to beauenly rewards Tertul. de Cor. mil. And the same Tertullian was the first that spake of praying for the dead who also consesseth that if you require Scripture for it you shall find nonc but tradition shall be pretended as the increaser custome the confirmer and faith the obseruer of it Yet it is to bee acknowledged that euen the most approued of the ancient haue prayed for the dead as Augustine for his Mother Monica and Ambrose for Theodosius but doubtingly because without ground in the Word Elymas Then I hope you will yeeld this to be more ancient then your not praying for the dead and your vtter denying of Purgatory as an inuention deriued from the Hâ—â—â—hen Paul Their praying for the dead was not the same vvith yours but either for the augmentation of their glory who were in Heauen as Ambrose hauing said that Theodesius remained in the light and gloried in the company of the Saints yet he prayeth giue perfect rest to thy seruant Theodosius Confes l. 9. c. 13. or to expresse their affection as Augustine who saith of his mother Monica I beleeus that thou hast done what I desire but accept of the voluntaries of my mouth Or if they thought them damned they prayed for a mitigation of their paines or holding that they might all bee kept in one common place till the day of iudgement as Laâ—tantius sheweth de diuin Draem lib. 7. cap. 21. Iren. lib. 5. Thâ—y prayed for the hastening of their Deliuerance They prayed not for soules in Purgatoric neither did they which held Purgatory beleeue that veniall sinnes were there done away and temporall punishments satisfied for till after Anno 1000 as your Church now teacheth and therefore euen these points as you hold them are new and vnthought of by antiquity And seeing no such custome is grounded vpon the Word of God as Tertullian hath confessed our denying thus to pray is more Apostolicall and so more ancient then either yours or theirs Serg. Paul But thus you will make the Church in the time of these holy Fathers to haue beene no true Church and them no true members whom we all yet haue in high esteeme Paul It doth not follow because they erred in one thing in practice through too much affection that they were no Church for it is not any errour that ouerturncth the Church but errours razing the foundation as hath beene before declared Elymas But these holy Fathers vsed the same things about the seruice of God that wee doe as holy Water and Chrisme both to the sicke and to the baptized and Exorcizing and Crossing and honoured the Saints departed with going to visit their Reliques and praying vnto them and commended a Monasticall life and confession to a Priest and workes of penance wherein the very life of our Religion consisteth And therefore if we be no true Church they were no true Church neither Paul Although there were some tincture of these superstitions in the Church in the dayes of the holy Fathers yet there was great difference betwixt them and you herein They vsed the Crosse not for any confidence they had in it but as a signe of their profession as a Aruobius testifieth saying We doe neither worship nor wish crosses And Ambrose speaking of Helena who found the Crosse of Christ faith Arnob. l. 8. Shee found the title and worshipped the King but not the wood Ambros de Obit Theoâ—os For this were a Gentile errour and a venity of the wicked They anointed the sicke at the beginning of their sicknesse in the part grieued to ease them as Gregory Turoneusis saith Hist Franc. l. 6. c. 7. But you to conferre grace at the end of sicknesse when there is no more hope of life They did not pray to the Saints departed as able to heare them but in their soliloquies by way of consabulation through a Prosopopeia For they held that the Saints departed could not heare them witnesse Saint Augustine who to proue that they know not what is done ox said here bringeth in that place of Esai L. de Cura prâ— mont c. 13. 63. Abraham knoweth vs not and 2 King 22. I will gather thee to thy Fathers that thy eyes may not see the ewill to come And they did commonly hold then that all the faithfull departed remained in some secret place out of heauen where they had not the sight of God as Iren. l. 5. Iust Martyr qu. 60. 76. Orig. Hom. 7. in Leuit. Chrys Hom. 38. in 1 Cor. c. And for worship they gaue them none neither Doulia nor Latria For so saith the same Augustine They are to be honoured for imitation not bee worshipped for Religion Aug. de vera relig c. 55. And he vseth the very word expressing Doulia Wee honour the Saints with charitis not with seruice Neither did they vse praying to them in their publique seruice For so also Saint Augustine saith Aug. de Cinit Dei lib. 22. c. 10. The Martyrs are named at our sacrifice as men of God that haue â—uercome the world but they are not called vpon by the Priest that sacrificeth But you pray vnto them in all your Liturgyes and worship them with Doulia And for all other things by you alledged though they haue been anciently vsed yet their beginning is not vnknowne vnto vs. Elym But you haue not yet answered my argument prouing that our case and theirs is all one For admit that there were some little difference yet this cannot conclude against vs as no Church if they were a true Church seeing wee agree together in one kinde of seruice Paul They agreed not with you in errours against the foundation and therefore were not implicated in the same danger as euen in this about the Saints departed where the chiefe danger lyeth viz. in worshipping them and trusting to them as to Mediators that shall preuaile and that haue power to helpe But you shall not thus put me from the first thing propounded viz. to shew the beginning of these superstitions Pope Alexander first instituted Holy Water Anno 115. Sabel Tom. 1. Concil Pope Higâ—â—â— Chryâ—â—ne in Baptisme Anno 141. Euseb lib. 4 c. 10. An Exorcift was first ordained by Pope Caius Anno 283. Sabel The signe of the Crosse was not vsed but for signification 300 yeares or if for blessing with inuocation vpon him that was crucified the trust not being in it but in Christ crucified A materiall Crosse or Crucifixe was not set vp till 400 yeares after Christ neither was it appointed till Anno 710 when the Trullan Councell ordained Cap. 82. Policbron l. 5. c. 12. Can. 15. that Christ should bee pictured hanging vpon the Crosse The first Crosse erected in England was Anno 635 in the time of King Oswald In the fift Carth. Councell
to tremble and to take occasion to repent by Gods iudgements yet when Corah Dathan and Abiram with their company are in the very offering of their incense destroyed their seruice as a conspiracy is confounded that all men may take heed of it and the seruice of Moses and Aaron honoured I could ascend higher to times past and shew miracles in the fufferings of our Martyrs and in the iudgements vpon your persecutors and I could inlarge my selfe to speake of the miraculous preseruation of Geneua and of the wonderfull successe of the Protestants in France in former times and of some Kings there and of the Bohemians in the time of Iohn Husse and it shall suffice to haue giuen this taste at home and so neare hand Elym These outward things are no proofes Eccl 9.2 seeing all things fall out alike vnto all But in the midst of all your good successe ye haue not been able to inlarge your Religion but onely to a few countreys here in Europe whereas the true Church is Catholike ouerspreading all Nations which marke is in the Church of Rome but not in yours Paul You abuse that Text of all things falling out alike to all For that is spoken only of the godly and the wicked which are religious and care not for religion and not of those that are zealous for their religion bee it true or false when they are all bound to embrace the truth For in this case God hath euer put a plaine difference betwixt those of his people that haue worshipped him aright and that haue beene corrupted by idolatry powring downe great and manifest blessings vpon the one sort and apparant curses vpon the other as it is at large set forth in the bookes of Iudges Samuel and the Kings thus as the great Vmpire ouer all determining for the Truth and against Errour As for the Catholocisme which you so much bragge of I haue already shewed that Grecia a part of the world not the furthest remote hath neuer wholly imbraced your Religion and by your cruclties your Church hath become so odious amongst the Indians that they abhorre it therefore and it is notoriously knowne that by your very images and faithlesnesse the Turkes haue been hindred from ruining to Christianitie and so haue the scaâ—tered Iewes Our Church is Apostolike as hath beene proued and therefore Catholike though the time is not yet come since the reformation of being inlarged to all parts for so neither was Christianitie vpon the sudden though caried forth by extraordinary instruments But to yeeld the pretended vniuersality of your Church so corrupted what tendeth this vnto indeed but to proue your Church to bee spirituall Babel and your Pope to be the whore of Babel seeing as shee so Rome sitteth as a Queene and ruleth ouer the Nations of the earth Serg. Paul Fie fie Paul this sauoureth rather of spleene then of sound iudgement for that Babylon is a persecuter of all Christians and an open oppugner of Christ and so may with good reason indeed bee reputed heathen Rome vnder the persecuting Emperours but not Popish Rome wherein Christ is honoured and Christians are harboured Paul Worthy Sir I speake out of no spleene but aduisedly pitying the people that being seduced by this whore run headlong after her to their own destruction For that popish Rome and not heathen Rome is that Babel I proue by these 2 inuincible reasons First from her name the great Whore Reu. 17.1 vers 5. and the mother of whordomes and abhomiuations of the earth Now whordome in the Scripture phrase as all know is Idolatry and yet euery idolatrous nation is not said to be a whore but only that where God hath beene rightly worshipped but his worship is become corrupt by the bringing in of Idols for in this respect when Iudah and Israel are said to haue playd the whore neither Babel nor Sodom nor any other nation is taxed by this name Whence is necessarily followeth that Rome where God hath beene truly worshipped but since hath beene by Idols corrupted must be meant by Babel that great whore and not heathen Rome which was originally idolatrous Again the other part of the name the Mother of Whordomes implyeth a place from whence the idolatries of other Countreys haue sprung such as was not Heathen Rome which receiued her idolatries from other nations as she subdued them that they might the more willingly obey the Romane State but Popish Rome the very mother of all the Idolatries in all nations round about Secondly I reason from the end of this Babel Reuel 18 2. Babylon is falne and is become the habitation of Deuils the bold of all foule spirits and a Cage of euery vncleane and hatefull bird And againe vers 3. She shall be burnt with fire Heathen Rome falling this desolation hath not succeeded but was more worthily inhabited then euer before with Christians in stead of Ethnicks and therefore this Babel is not that Rome but Rome that now is whose iudgements shall be according to her blessings as the iudgements of Ierusalem not to bee once destroyed and then repeopled againe but to be burnt with fire neuer to be againe reedifyed but to remaine a perpetuall spectacle of desolation for the glory of Gods iustice against such a sinke of abhominations Serg. Paul But you haue not yet touched that note which chiefly is pointed at as the cause of Babels ruine In her was found the blood of the Prophets and of the Saints Reu. 18.24 c. What Prophets or Saints haue beene slaine in Rome since the Christians bare sway She hath honoured many Saints with canonizing them but blood of Saints she hath shed none Paul By Prophets as all know are vnderstood Preachers of the Gospell and by Saints godly and faithfull people for such in the holy Scriptures are called saints the Pope canonized saints not being knowne then And of these what place in the world so full of the blood as Popish Rome sith she hath beene the bellows to blow vp the coales that haue burnt thousands of most godly innocent people and from her hath been deriued the bloody cruelty which hath been exercised by the Potentates of the earth against the numberlesse shepheards and sheepe of Christs flocke to the destroying of them in most inhumane and barbarous manner I thanke you therefore for putting me in minde of this note for by cruelty and blood-shed is the sinne of the Church of Rome come to the height neither doth any thing threaten so formidable iudgmeÌ„ts against her as the cry of so much innocent blood shed with such exquisite torments that if Nebuchadnezzar King of Babel were aliue he might be asham'd that hee could inuent no more long lingring tormenting death but cast those that would not worship his Image into a hot fiery furnace so hot as that they might bee presently dispacht when as the King of this Babel hath an hundred wayes more tormenting to destroy his oppugners
and a far more terrifying course by imprisoning long vilely dieting cruelly racking and at last burning them in a lingring paineprotracting fire Serg. Paul But it is not for their sanctity that he dealeth thus with them but for their Heresies for which he thinketh them worthy of any torment that others being by them warned may take heed of falling into the like Paul This is his pretence indeed but if it be heresie then the pure milke sucked out of the brests of the old and new Testament without any forraigne mixture must be heresie for such I haue particularly shewed in the beginning of this Colloquy all our doctrine to be It is therefore for zeale and sanctity meerly that we suffer and if it were otherwise yet the Pope must needs for this be Antichrist and popery Antichristianisme For who is Antichrist but he that is against Christ and who is against Christ but he that teacheth and setteth men on to doe against Christs teaching If Christ then had bidden Peter to put vp his sword and not to strike therewith for his cause in way of reuenge vpon those that were contrary minded is not he Antichrist that gloryeth in striking with the sword If Christ rebuked the rash zeale of those that would haue called for fire from heauen to destroy such as refused to entertaine Christ are not they Antichristian that with fire fagot destroy all If Christ bad let the tares and wheat grow together till the haruest lest whilest the tares be pulled out the wheat be plucked vp also is not he Antichrist that biddeth pluck vp the tares howsoeuer destroy the Hereticks in France and in Germany by the sword and in England with Gunpowder though many Catholikes perish together with them also To say nothing of other things wherein he is plainly against Christ Elym You shew your spite against his Holinesse now indeed How can you speake thus without blushing when as it is plainly set forth as the note of Antichrist 1. Iohn 4.1 that he denyeth Christ to haue come in the flesh and to confesse Christ come in the flesh the note of Gods Spirit Wherefore the Pope cannot be Antichrist And if cruelty against Heretikes bee an argument to proue Antichrist I pray let your rulers take part with him herein seeing that in cruelty they are no whit inferiour to Catholike rulers if they exceed them not For what holy Priests and zealous desmits haue beene spared from the sword what priuate professors of the Catholike Religion from most cruell vsage imprisoning and spoyling since the beginning of Queene Elizabeths reigne cill euen of late when the clemency of a more mercifull King abhorring from all tyranny hath made their yoak somwhat easier Paul You shew eyther your ignorance or wilfulnesse in alleaging that text of Saint Iohn For who knoweth not that there are more Antichrists then one some are open professed enemies to Christ of whom St. Iohn speaketh that those may easily be knowne by their denying of Christ but there is one called the Antichrist which I haue also set forth that sitteth in the Temple of God and commeth with all deceiâ—ablenesse which things could not agree vnto him if hee plainly denyed Christ and this Antichrist your Pope may well be notwithstanding his outward profession of Christianity And for your reply to draw in our Gouernors into the same predicament for their cruelty I wonder that you and your fellowes are not ashamed to broach so many notorious lyes as you haue done touching all manner of cruelties exercised here in England against your sect when as since the beginning of that most blessed Queenes reigne though there was iust cause and but your owne measure should haue bin meted to you againe if all your sect had beene rooted out with fire and sword without partiality not one Papist hath beene put to death for his religion But because by experience it was found dangerous to the State to suffer Priests and Iesuits to come into the land their comming being for treason and rebellion they were proceeded against as traytors that presumed contrary to the Law to enter this Kingdome And lest there should bee danger in the rest they haue beene confined and fined as commmon policy requireth the more they were kept vnder and restrained the security of the State being the more and contrariwise the more their wealth and liberty was the greater was the danger of the Kingdome Wherefore here hath beene no persecution of Religion but of rebellion no execution done vpon conscience but vpon treason as your own conscience cannot but witnesse with vs. Elym There is no end I see of wording with you so many are your shifts and colours at euery turne but I hope you haue seen your best dayes both you your religion shall now downe as fast as euer it came vp and the Catholike religion shall be againe in euery place restored and then the deed will proue the truth and that your heresy is not of God for then it could not bee resisted Wherefore most noble Gouernor let not this Heretick seduce you but prouide for your honor peace and safety by ioyning with Catholicke Princes who alone almost rule all Europe and would be glad to see you become a good Catholicke also and so to prosecute with all entire loue honor estimation Paul Now you shew your selfe in your colours indeed a true child of the Deuill tempting by worldly honours and respects as he did Christ But most excellent Sergius your wisedome I hope is such that you will easily reiect these temptations as Christ did the Deuils with it is written Psal 20.8 They which trust in horses and chariots or in worldly Princes shall fall downe but such as trust in God shall stand vp stedfastly For mine owne part I doubt not but the eager putting on of popish Potentates of late dayes to ouerthrow the truth at once is a presage of the ruine of that superstition being euen at the dores For so the Christian Religion being most indangered in the dayes of Eugenius when the aduersaries sought to destroy it all at once his rage was turned to bee fatall to Gentilisme being immediatly after so put downe as that it was neuer able to make head againe Serg. Paul God forbid that I through any feare or hope should be drawne to that which I so plainly now see to bee dangerous to the soule No no thou bewitching Elymas I haue giuen too much care to thy deceiuable reasons to incline to so fauourable an opinion of your Antichristianisme From henceforth I charge you to come at my Court no more for I will no more haue communion with you or such as you are but onely as I am commanded I will as much as in me lyeth haue peace with all men And thou Paul the true messenger of God shalt at all times be welcome vnto me Many such Preachers God blesse mee and my Dominion with all for they are truely the seruants of God and all that will be moued the rather for my countenance let them hearken vnto them and fly all communion with sophisticall Iesuites and Priests So shall I account them good and loyall subiects to me in whom my heart shall trust and they shall escape the greatest and the most bewitching danger of the soule that euer was FINIS