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A14357 M. le Hucher minister of Amyens in France compelled to fly from the pure word of holy write; strucke dumme; and made to runne away Vppon the subiect of the B. Sacrament of the altar. By F. Francis Veron of the Society of Iesus, encountring him with the Bible of Geneua only. In the presence of the Duke de Longueuille. VVith a briefe and easie meanes, by which each Catholike may, in like manner, put to flight any minister or sectarie. Sent from Sieur de la Tour one of the sayd Dukes gentlemen, to Sieur de Rotois, gentleman of the Kings game.; Adrian Hucher ministre d'Amyens, mis à l'inquisition des passages de la Bible de Genève. English Véron, François, 1575-1649.; Catcher, Edward, 1584?-1624? 1616 (1616) STC 24675.5; ESTC S107356 29,473 96

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article that IESVS Christ only Aduocate Let vs come to the 20. Article These are the wordes Article 20. VVe beleeue that vve are made partakers of that iustice to witt Christian by faith alone Textes cited in the Margent of this Article Man is iustified by faith vvithout the vvorkes of the lavve Rom. 3. Vers 28. Man is not iustified by the vvorkes of the Lavve but only by the faith of IESVS Christ Galat. 2. Vers 16. Before faith came vve vvere kept vnder the lavv shut vp vnto that faith vvhich vvas to be reuealed Therfore the lavve vvas our Pedagogue in Christ that vve might be iustified by faith but vvhen that faith is come novv vve are not vnder a Pedagogue Galat. 3. Vers 23. Examen I reade not one word in all these textes of the workes of Christian faith of which alone and of no others we speake and hold necessary to iustification It is manifest that this pure word alledged speaketh of workes of the Iudaicall religion styled commonly by S. Paul by the name of the Lawe and not of the workes of Christian Religion These passages therfore say onlie that Christian faith without Circumcision and other ceremonies of the Iewes doth iustifie Who denieth this is this all one or as much as to say that Christian faith without the workes which proceed from the said faith in IESVS Christ as is penance doth iustifie Which is that the article teacheth Wherfore this pure worde seconds not that which the article sayeth I am amazed at the impudency or ignorance of the Ministers S. Paul discoursing so largely in fiue whole chapters of that epistle to the Galathians against those which would ioyne with Christian faith Circumcision and other workes of Iudaisme and the very titles of those chapters in the Geneua translation noting the same yet the aduersaries will alledge these against them who hold that Christian workes are necessarie to iustification Open but the epistle and thou wilt detest such abusers the whole epistle sheweth that which I say It shall suffise for proofe heereof to cite the words of the. 5. chapter 2. verse Behold I tell you that if you be circumcised Christ shall proffit you nothing and I testifie againe to euerie man circumciding himself that he is a debter to doe the whole law you are euacuated from Christ that are iustified in the law You are fallen from grace for we by faith exspect the hope of iustice In IESVS Christ neither circumcision auaileth ought uor prepuce but faith working by charity Do not you falsefye doth not S. Paul teach in these laste wordes the contrarie to your article The Apostle opposeth Christian Religion which is called faith in Christ vnto the Iudaicall religion which is named the lawe and teacheth that this later is not necessary to iustification but that the former suffiseth and doth not oppose Christian faith to Christian workes The last texte cited for the foresaid article hath as little energy as the precedents it is this of S. Iohn 3. Vers 15.16 As Moyses exalted the Serpent in the desert so must the sonne of man be exalted that euerie one vvhich beleeueth in him perish not but may haue life euerlasting For so God loued the vvorld that he gaue his only begotten sonne that euery one that beleeueth in him perish not but haue life euerlasting The word only of which only is our variance and which is in your article teaching that faith only iustifieth is not in this text wherefore this vnles you add thereto the word only makes nothing to your purpose and how often doth this speech to beleeue in IESVS Christ signifie to professe the Ghospell and liue according to the same for faith saith S. Iames in the 1. chapter 17. verse If it haue not workes is dead Doth not S. Paul Galat. 5. Vers 6. say that that which iustifieth is faith working by charitie Doth not our Sauiour pronounce this sentence if thou wilt enter into life keepe the commaundements But I am not bound to prooue that faith alone without Christian workes doth not iustifie it is you that are engaged to prooue by the pure worde that that alone doth iustifie alone I say for of that alone doe we dispute In the 11. article it is said that Article 11. Originall sinne after Baptisme is still sinne as it is a fault hovvbeit the condemnation thereof is taken avvay in the children of God vvho of his mercifull goodnes doth not impute it vnto them In proofe of this is alledged one only place in the margent Rom. 7. Vers 7. Texte VVhat shall vve say then is the lavve sinne God forbid but sinne I did not knovv but by the lavve for concupiscence I knevv not vnles the lavv did say thou shalt not couet Examen Here is not in the text one word contained in the article wherefore this Confession promising to say nothing but by the pure word abuseth vs in this point Go on Let vs examine the 36. and 37. articles which speake of the B. Sacrament which since it is obscurely spoken of for more perspicuity I will borrow somewhat out of your Catechisme The 1. clause of the 36. article VVe testifie that the Supper is a testimonie of the vnitie vvhich vve haue vvith IESVS Christ vvhose body you say in your Catechisme in the 53. lesson or Sunday is not included vnder the bread nor his bloud vvithin the chalice that vve must not seeke him in these corruptible elementes For proofe you alleadge this texte Text. The cuppe of benediction vvhich vve do blesse is it not the communion of the bloud of Christ and the bread vvhich vve do breake is it not the communion of the bodie of Christ for being manie vve are one only bread and one only body for vve all partake of one only bread 1. Corinth 10. Vers 16.17 Examen I reade not in this text testimony of the vnity with IESVS Christ the text therfore agrees not with the article But I reade communion of bloud communion of body which is a different matter from testimony of vnity with IESVS Christ and sheweth that the body of IESVS Christ may be founde in these corruptible elements vnder the accidents of bread and wine which this article denieth An other clause of the same article In the supper are Signss which testify that the body and bloud of IESVS Christ serueth no lesse for the soule to eate and drinke then bread and wine doth for the body These Articles say not in expresse termes that the body of IESVS Christ is not in the Eucharist to couer with obscurity theyr errour to disperse this darknes I must borrow some light from theyr Catechisme in the 53. lesson we must not sayth it vnderstand that the body is inclosed within the bread nor the bloud within the chalice but contrariwise to haue the verity of this sacrament we must lift vp our hartes on high to heauen where IESVS Christ is and not seeke him in these corruptible elements For this
M. LE HVCHER MINISTER OF AMYENS IN FRANCE COMPELLED to fly from the pure word of Holy write strucke dumme and made to runne away Vppon the subiect of the B. Sacrament of the Altar By F. FRANCIS VERON of the Society of IESVS encountring him with the Bible of Geneua only In the presence of the Duke de Longueuille VVith a briefe and easie meanes by which each Catholicke may in like manner put to flight any Minister or Sectarie Sent from Sieur de la Tour one of the sayd Dukes Gentlemen to Sieur de Rotois Gentleman of the Kings game Printed Explication of the Title This Conference was held three seuerall times In the first the Father of the Society compelled the Minister to abandone the pure word of the holie scripture In the 2. he putt him to silence In the 3. he made him runne away Testimony of the said conference It is signed by the Father of the Society by the Duke of Longueuilles Gentlemen who accompanying theyr Lord were present therat and in parte by the Minister which refused to subcribe to that which putt him most to confusion The subcriptions follow in theyr proper place To the Reader TWo things there are good Reader which made me desirous of thy eternall good to turne for thy vse this little treatise into our language The one the breuity and pleasure it yealdeth the other the easines and perspicuity with which it confuteth it instructeth The first suteth well to that lazy humour which heresy hath brought into our country wherby men haue little gust to read ought that concernes their soules and scarse ought of that vnles it be well seasoned with extraordinary delight The other supposing thy capacity and affection to truth which if affection misleade me not is equall to that of most Nations and by heresy I hope not maliciously peruerted or at least not puruersly obstinate therin makes me presume thou wilt easily see and quickly leaue that blind mans maze of the falsly pure pretended word wherin thou hast beene long ledde round Both of them by Gods assistance promisse vnto me no little fruite of this small worke which is that I hartely desyre for thy soules good and Gods greater glory Farewell Thy welwiller in IESVS CHRIST D. V. A LETTER OF Mr. DE LA TOVR GENTLEMAN TO THE DVKE OF LONGVEVILLE VVritten vnto Mr. de Rotois Gentleman of the Kings game SYR the ardent zeale I know you haue of the good and glory of our Religion makes me suppose you wil receaue a singular content in the relation of a priuate conference had of late in the presence of my Lord the Duke of Longueuille and his followers of the Marques de Boniuet of the Lady de Bourcq diuers others aswell Catholiks as Sectaries between Father Francis Veron of the Society of IESVS preacher for this present in the great Church of this Citty M. le Hucher Minister of the Caluinists in the same place touching that point of our Faith of the body of the sōne of God in the Sacrament of the Altar The said Father agreeing to deale with that Minister by the Bible of Geneua only and the Confession of faith of the reformed This conference hath had three sessions at the first I was not present not being aduertised of the same Notwithstanding at the beginning of the second the actes of the former session were read alowed auowed by both parties as authenticall Wherfore I will make recitall of that which passed in the sight of my Lord vs that were attending on him besides a great multitude of diuerse of the one and the other Religion The said Father on the morrow after the last conference which was Sunday made an ample narration of the three passed meetings to aboue eight thowsand persones assembled in the Church of our Lady to heare his sermon The most heerof is signed as you will see after wherfore no man can iustlie call in question a matter so cleerly testified Our Deuine atchieued three famous victories For the Minister hauing promised conformably to the 31. and 5. articles of theyr Confession of their faith to shew by the pure word of the Bible that we erred in that beleefe we haue that the body of our Lord is in the Eucharist he was constrained in the first session and againe in the entrance vnto the second trial to sly from his fortresse of the pure word of force disclaiming from the pure scripture of Geneua and withall aknowledged and cōfessed that there was no expresse text in all the scripture euen by the Geneua translation which setting a side all illations did condemne vs of errour But quoth the Minister by necessary consequence out of the pure worde of God I will make it cleare that you do erre The night comming on made our combatant cease the pursuite not driue him farther who already sheltred himself within the ruinous edifice of a Consequence The Father told me that it was not of small importāce to make the Sectaries clearly see confesse that they haue not for themselues the pure scripture but only certain consequences for quoth he the cause that makes so many to beginne and continue in their reuolt from Gods Church is for that they persuade themselues that they haue on their sides the pure word of God for so saith the 5. article of their Confession that they admitt nothing for the rule of faith but the pure word they do veryly suppose that that Confession conteineth nothing but that which is in the pure worde After the approbation of that passed before the Minister at the second session was admitted to deduce his necessary consequence by which he would demōstrate how farre we wandred from the truth He first fetched long vagaries round about afterward the Father so dexterously put him beside all his proofes in briefe brought him to such pangues that for the finall proposition he had nothing to say against the Father but ô you deny to much after which he became alltogeather speechles as I wil more largely declare her after Certes you would haue been extraordinarily recreated to behold how he that erewhile made profession to proue by the pure word of God that we were Idolaters in lieu of the pure word had not a word to help himself saue this only that the Iesuite denied to much wee I am sure had good sport therin Ours which had thus chased the Minister still put him to these pāgues for a long time still vrging him thus M. Minister prooue your consequence Neither did he omitt to signifie plainly and alowde to the whole assemblie to what exigents the poore Minister was brought to who sustained the Confession of the faith of the reformed Religion and bragged to discouer by the pure word our errours Had not the quality of the Ministers cause been such as it was I should haue had compassion to haue seen him in that plight and so oppressed He desired they would giue him that