will but that the choyce of the wyll dothe euer folowe the iudgement of the reason For fyrste what question is there but that many whiche ryght surely beleue the mercy of god do nat yet loue god in suche wyse as is requisite vnto saluacyon that is in the preferrynge his pleasure before theyr owne and to forbere synne for the loue of his lawe and for the regarde of his goodnes to fulfyll hys commaundementes But we fynde it many tymes farre contrarye that the ouer great regarde of his mercy turneth truste into presumpcyon and maketh men the more bolde in synne so forsothe that neyther loue of god nor desyre of heuen nor drede of hell is able to pulle them backe Nowe as touchyng the tother point that whan we erre nat in wyll and iudgement we can nat erre in will choyce of thynges but that the wyll alway doth naturally accorde and agree to folowe the iudgement of reason whether it iudge ryght or wronge we shal differ the sotletees of that disputacyon tyll we come to the place in hys answere vnto my thyrde and fourthe boke of my dyaloge where I purpose god wyllyng to touche this matter more full wyll at this tyme nothynge els obiecte agaynste hym than the playnest profe that can be that is to wytte euery mannes owne experyence and expresse perceyuinge of the contrary For many a wretche that dothe an abominable dede seeth and perceyueth full well that he dothe very noughte and that he shulde nat do so and his wytte and his reason forbideth hym But his wyll fallynge from the folowynge of his reason to the fulfyllyng of his fleshely desyre beestly luste and deuelysshe appetite accomplyssheth his detestable dede nat for any lacke of wyt and reason but thorowe faute of the frowarde wyll wyttyngly workynge for pleasure agaynste reason Many a man that hathe a great wytte and a great reason to and moche lernynge ioyned vnto them bothe dothe yet more folysshely and more vnresonably than doth some other whose wytte and reason is very farre vnder his and as for lernynge hathe vtterly none at all And wherof coÌ„meth this but in that the tone with no lernynge no great wytte hath great good wyll to worke with goddes grace and do well and the tother with moch wytte and lernyng lacketh the wyll to worke well after his reason therefore letteth grace go by and wylfully foloweth affeccion And yf Tyndale in this beleue nat me nor all the wyde worlde besyde he wyll I truste at the leste wyse beleue him selfe Nowe than sayeth he in mo places of his boke than one that I se the truthe well inoughe and that I se well inoughe that I shuld nat do as he sayeth I do wyttingly and wylfully wryte agaynste the truthe wherin if he wyll nowe confesse that he sayeth vntrue lette hym reuoke hys lye and call it backe agayn and than god forgyue him and I do And if he wyll abyde styll by that worde that he said than than muste he go fro this worde quyte that he sayeth nowe For yf I wote well I do nat well and yet for all that I do it than is there one man at the leste wyse whose wyll foloweth nat his wytte And than if I be suche one I shall nat I truste lyue all alone but shall rather than fayle fynde Tyndale hym selfe so good a felowe as to falcefye his owne wordes here and bere a pore man company And that his wordes here be very false in dede dothe yet farther appere by hys conclusyon that he concludeth theron if his conclusyon do necessarily folowe For hys conclusyon is this that in teching onely standeth the pythe of a mannes lyuynge For if this be false as in dede it is than if it necessarely folowe vpon hys other wordes hys other wordes must nedes be as false as it for vpon a truth nothyng can there folowe but truthe as euery man lerned well knoweth But nowe knoweth euery man very well that all the pythe of a mannes lyuynge standeth nat in onely techyng For many be full well taught howe they shulde lyue ye so well taught that they be able to teche it other full well yet lyue them selfe full nought we shall nat nede to seke longe for ensample syth no man douteth but that Iudas Scariothe had so good a scole mayster and was with him so longe that if he had any wyt he was metely well taught howe he shulde lyue And that he was nat all wytlesse thoughe by defaute of good wyll â—e waxed in conclusyon gracelesse appereth well in that so wyse a mayster as oure sauyour was sent hym forthe amonge other for one of hys vsshers to teche in his owne tyme. And yet as well taught as he was and as well as he taught other to yet was hys owne lyuynge nat very good whyle he was bothe a theâ—e and a traytour bothe to god and man And yet that we shall nat nede to seke so farre as fyftene hundred yere ago I wene it wyll be no great difficultie to fynde folke inoughe euyn nowe in our owne tyme that can preche and gyue good counsayle to theyr neyghbours agaynste the vyces in whiche they lyue them selfe So that thoughe to good lyuynge good techynge be necessary yet may euery fole se that in good techynge standeth nat all y â— pythe of good lyuynge as Tyndale sayeth it dothe sythe many men haue ben well taught and yet lyued nought But this wyse reason amonge many lyke lerned Tyndale of his mayster Luther whiche at wormes in Almayne at his beynge there before the Emperour sayd that yf the gospell were well taughte there shulde nede none other lawe And this sayd he there this sayeth Tyndale here bycause they and theyr felowes wolde fayne take away all lawes and leaue nothynge but sermons And than after that theyr vngracious heâ—esyes myght be frely preched for the gospell of god no lawe to let them when after many soules sent vnto the deuyll by theym they shulde as they haue done in Almayne all redy begynne sedicion and rebellyon and fall to ryflynge robbery murdre and manslaughter who so shulde than without force of punysshement onely teche and preche vnto suche vnruly rebelles shulde ye wote well haue a deuoute audyence But Tyndale in this matter whaÌ„ he hath tolde vs this tale that the pythe of mannes lyuynge standeth all to gether in techynge he addeth thervnto by and by sayeth Tyndale Howe be it there be swyne that receyue no lernynge but to defyle it and there be dogges that rent all good lernynge with theyr tethe More If there be suche swyne and suche dogges as in dede there be as our sauyour hym selfe wytnesseth in the gospell if this I say be truthe as it is that Tyndale telleth vs nowe than is it false that Tyndale tolde vs afore that is to wytte that all standeth in techynge For those swyne those dogges will be nought for
that these bestes do theyr detestable dedes vnwyllyngly wythout consent vnto synne Now towchynge Tyndals tother goodly refuge that the horryble dedes of hys trew membres of hys elect chyrche be neuer dedely synnes bycause they do them neuer of no malyce thys is be ye sure a very comely deuyce whych euery wyse man ye wote well muste nedes alowe and commende For in our ensample of Iak slouche what indyfferent iudge wolde not holde the good man excused of all those abomynable dedes yf it myghte appere to the court that y ◠defoylyng of hys mother was not for any dyspyght or malyce borne to hys father but of vnnaturall affeccyon and very bestely luste And also that the poysenynge of his father grew not of anger or euyll wyll to hys person but of loue and longynge for hys substaunce and suche other excusys lyke for all hys other detestable crymes wherupō it myghte appere y ◠none of them all rose of anger or euyll wyll but some of pryde some of couetyce some of lechery or such other rybaldouse appetyt what coulde hys iudge in suche case saye to hym for very pytye yf the poore man sayde onys he were sory but stroke hys hed and byd hym go home and be a good sonne and do so no more And therfore for as myche as the same Iak slouche dothe none of those detestable dedes of pure malyce to any other body but of some kynde of affeccyon towarde hym selfe hys loue is not vtterly quenched and therfore he is one of Tyndals electes that synneth neuer how bad so euer he be For where as fynally Tyndale techeth vs that his trew membres of hys electe chyrche do neuer synne dedely bycause that after the luskes haue played out all theyr lustes then they repent agayne and remember them selfe theyr fathers formar kyndenes and be sory thys is a fayre tale of a tubbe tolde vs of hys electes For euery man well woteth that thus do the fynall reprobates and be by dew repentaunce dyuers tymes in theyr lyues restored agayne to the state of grace And then by thys tale of Tyndale were there no dede dāpnable nor dedely synne in any man were it neuer so abomynable but onely those last synnes in whiche he dyed impenitent And then were all Tyndals hyghe descrypcyons and dyfferences of electes and reprobates all brought to thys poynt at the laste that theyr dedes be all one and theyr fasshyons and theyr faythes and theyr louys to the lawe of god a lyke chaungeable thorow the remanaunt of theyr lyues sauynge that the tone sorte dye repentaunt and the tother sorte impenytent And thys is the same thynge that we saye And so is Tyndale after all his longe folysh varyaunce at laste maugry his teth agaynst hys purpose compelled to saye the same that we haue all waye sayed and he alwaye denyed But then saye we one thynge forther that where as the electes be by hys owne agreement the penytentes onely and the trewe repentauntes neyther hym selfe whyche repenteth not his abomynable heresyes but stuburnly standeth by them and sayth he wyll dye in them nor his mayster Marten Luther whyche notwythstandynge that the luske hath often tymes played out his luste wyll not yet leue his lechery but lye styll with the nonne and defende for lawfull matrymony theyr fylthy lyfe that is afore god and all good men a very bestely bychery shew them selues clerely to be any of the trewe penytentes but vtterly to be such as but yf they repent better ere they dye shall elles be none of goddes fynall electes but very wreched reprobates accursed out of goddes company and myserable membres of the deuyls dampned chyrche in hell yet sayth Tindale forther in y ◠ende of all thys chapiter that all be it the olde kyndenesse of the father can not let the good chylde vtterly dyspayre for all that he hath played at spurne poynt by the waye in goynge at scolewarde yet all the world can not set his harte at reste vntyll the payne be past and vntyll he haue herde the voyce of his father that all is forgyuen These wordes wolde I haue Tyndale apply me well to hys gostely purpose and turnynge the sample of hys good chylde into some olde shrewe and the playenge at spurne poynt into some detestable dede let Tyndale then tell vs where what voyce and by whom hys trew member of his elect chyrche shall here that voyce of remyssyon If he mene any worde spoken in scrypture all redy then is he soone spedde and shall not after hys synfull cryme cōmytted fall at any greate conflycte in hym selfe bytwene hope and dyspayre hys fayth almoste catchyng a fall for fere and at last wyth myth worke rysynge agayne All thys gere is soone done yf the voyce of hys father grauntynge remyssyon set hys harte at reste and that voyce be hys worde wryten in scrypture for then he herde the worde before he dyd y e dede And that worde beynge suche yf it were vnderstanden as Tyndale techeth that forthwyth at the bare repentynge without shryft or penaūce all were forgyuē synne payne and all bothe eternall and temporall bothe in hell and purgatory and in this worlde to that worde were than I say all redy bifore the dede not a forgyuenes onely of the synne passed but a lycence almoste also of all horryble dedes to be done And if he meane to here the voyce of his father afterwarde not wrytten before he muste here it by the mouthe of his goostely father vpon his humble shryfte and confessyon whiche Tyndall calleth the crafte and inuencion of Sathan And this is lo the conclusion of Tyndall in this his chapitre of his false faithe euer assawted whiche is as ye se nowe taken here with assawte pece mele on euery syde wounded spoyled and bounden and quycke of felyng as any blayne or botche but vtterly dede of grace sent downe vnto the deuyll Tyndale The maner and ordre of our election EVyn so goth it wyth goddes electes God choseth them fyrste and they not god as thou redest Iohn̄ 15 And then he sendeth forth and calleth theym and sheweth them hys good wyll which he beareth vnto them and maketh them se both theyr owne dampnacion in the lawe and also the mercy that is layed vp for them in Christes blode and thereto what he will haue them do And then when we se his mercy we loue him agayne and chose hym and submitte our selues vnto his lawes to walke in them For when we erre not in wytte reason and iudgement of thinges we can not erre in wyll and choyse of thinges The choyse of a mans wyll dothe naturally and of her owne accorde folowe the iudgement of a mans reason whether he iudge right or wronge So that in teachinge onely resteth the pythe of a mans lyuinge More THis chapiter dependeth vpon the chapiter before in whiche he compared hys true membres of his electe chyrche vnto his good child whom his father taught nurter
wordes as they be and as innocent and as simple as they seme yet in them meneth Tyndale couertly to come forthe with his poyson of false prechynge the predestinacyon of god with destrucion of the fre wyll of man concernynge any maner of deuoure of them selfe towarde the â—eleue and faythe For he â—â—neth here that god alway maketh the electes to se these thynges without any wyll of theyr owne any thynge workynge with god towarde the syght thereof and that all the reprobates that shal be dampned for lacke of the beleue be reprobated and reiected and lefte vnchosen and kept from the syght and perceyuynge of the thynges to be beleued without any demeryte or euyll deserte of theyr owne onely bicause god lyste nat to make them see And that Tyndale thus falsely meneth by those fayre playne wordes ye shall farther perceyue by other wordes of Tyndals owne wrytynge afterwarde in his answere to to the fyrste chapyter of the thyrde boke of my dyaloge For where as I there shewed that the very bokes of the scripture if selfe can nat make men beleue y t scripture nor very surely knowe whyche were the very true scripture of god and whiche were scriptures countrâ—fete sauyng that the catholyke churche techeth vs to knowe the scrypture and the spirite of god with mannes owne towardes and good endeuoure worketh in man the credulite and belefe by whiche we bothe beleue the churche in techyng vs whiche is the scripture also by whiche we beleue the thinges that are wrytten in the scrypture to this bycause I sayde there that whan we here the scrypture or rede it if we be nat rebellious but endeâ—our our selfe to beleue captyue and subdue our vnderstandyng to serue and folowe fayth prayenge for goddes gracious ayde and helpe god than worketh with vs and inwardely dothe inclyne our harte in to the assent of the thynge that we rede and after a lytell sparke of our faythe oâ—es had increaseth the credence in our incredilyte Tyndale to this in moâ—kage of mennes endeuour towarde the belefe and in scornynge that we wolde captyue our vnderstandyng into y e seruyce of fayth answereth me with an 〈◊〉 as exclamacion and cryenge out vpon my flesheâ—â—â—es and foly â—oâ—eth out his hyghe spirituall sentence in this 〈◊〉 oâ— Tyndale O hoâ—e betleblyâ—de is flesshely reason The wyll hath none operacion at all 〈◊〉 the workynge of faythe in my soule no more 〈◊〉 the chylde hathe in the begettynge of his fathe◠〈◊〉 sayeth Paule it is the gyfte of god and nat of vs. My 〈…〉 sâ—ewe â—e 〈…〉 or an appatent cause why yer my wyll haue any workynge at allâ— More Nowe perceyue you good christen reders what an vnchristen mynde this euyll christen man hathe in those wordes that seme so fayre and playne in this present chapyter For thoughe he speke nat out so plainly in this chapyter as he dothe after in his answere to my thyrde boke as ye haue here herde yet that he falsely meneth in eyther place alyke ye may yet more plainly perceyue by hys wordes y â— in this chapiter immedyatly folow which are such sa may be as well ioyned to his foresayde wordes of his answere vnto my thyrde boke as to the wordes vnto whiche they be knytte in this present chapyter In whiche whan he hathe sayed that god maketh his electes se theyr dampnation in y â— lawe and also the mercy that is layed vp for them in Christes bloode and therto what he wyll haue them do it foloweth than forthwith Tyndale And then when we se his mercy we loue hym agayne and chose hym and submytte our selues vnto his lawes to walke in them For when we erre not in wytte reason and iudgement we can not erre in wyll and choyse of thynges The choyse of mannes wyll doth naturally and of her owne accorde folow the iugement of a mannes reason whyther he iudge ryghte or wronge so that in techyng onely resteth the pyth of a mannes lyuynge More Now trust I good reders that it is inoughe that we perceyue and se what Tyndale entendeth in thys chapitre of the ordre of our eleccyoÌ„ and that for all hys great exclamacyon we be nat yet so betle blynd but that we spye well inough whyche way this wyly serpeÌ„t walketh and that he goth about vnder colour of the prayse and commendacyon of goddes predestinacionâ— and ordynaunce vtterly concernyng fayth to put a way the wurke of maÌ„nes fre wyll and yet ouer that though â—om what more couertely of trouthe concernyng all other good workes to And all be it that he seme here to gyue mannes wyll in maner lyke place in the acte of our loue toward god as he gyueth god in the worke of our belyefe and fayth in vs yet whan he is well perceyued he bryngeth all to suche ineuytable necessyte that both in the tone and the tother and in all maner of good workes he taketh vtterly away all manes of meryt from the good men and electes gyueth vnto the euyll peple and reprobatys an excuse for theÌ„ selfe and an occasion to lay the wight of there iuste dampnacioÌ„ to the vniustyâ—e of goddes eternall ordynaunce and moste ryghtuouse predestynacyon And yet are all hys reasons in thys greate mater so small that a man may nat well wyt whyther they be more wykked or more wyttelesse Nowe all be it that I shall purpose to treat of thys matter more at longe wyth Tyndale whan I shall come to the coÌ„nfutacion of hys fond answeres made vnto the thyrde fourth bokes of my dyaloge yet can I nat presently forbere som what to shewe you of hys abomynable errour in thys poynt And yet in good fayth me semeth no very great nede hys folyes after hys wordes of bothe the places brought forth and layde togyther be now so playne and euydent of them selfe For who is so betle blynde that seeth nat clerely y â— darke deuelysh heresye of thys hyghe spyrytuall heretyque that sayth it is a betle blynde fleshely reason to thynke that the good endeuour of the mannes parte in wyllyngly conformyng hym selfe towarde the fayth and captyuyng and subdewyng hys reason and vnderstandyng in to the obsequy and obedyent seruyce of belyefe shulde be no maner helpe nor furtheraunce towarde the gettyng of any â—rysten fayth but y â— the wyll hath none operacyon at all in the workynge of fayth in mannes soule no more than the chylde hath in the bygetting of his father For here ye se wel that we speke of suche as are of age and haue the vse of reason If mannes wyll had no more part towarde the attaynynge of the belyefe than the chylde hath in the bygettyng of hys owne father I se nat wherfore our sauyoure shulde call vppon the people and byd them do penaunce and beleue the gospell as he dothe in the fyrste chapytre of saynt Marke For though it be very trew that wythout goddes helpe and goddes grace preuentyng and foregoyng no man can
heuen whyther wolde Tyndale aduyse them thus whyche yf he dyd then sholde he teche them that mannys endeuoure towarde fayth is not a thynge to be mocked as hym selfe mocketh it now but that mannes own wyll doth somwhat more towarde it then doth the chylde to the bygettynge of hys owne father Or ellys wolde Tyndale forbydde them all suche thynges in any wyse tell them that theyr owne endeuoure wolde rather hynder and make theym ascrybe the fayth that is y e gyfte of god vnto the meryte goodnes of theyr owne wyll theyr owne towardenesse theyr owne prayours theyr owne coÌ„tynence almoyse dede fastynge and all theyr other endeuoure All whyche thynges yf Tyndale take for nought or peryllouse then is it lykely that he wolde of consequence aduyce those dyscyples of hys to be well ware of all suche thynges do none of theÌ„ in no wyse for the counsayle to such thynges coulde come but of betle blynde flesshely reason And therfore Tyndales dyscyples towarde the gettyng of the fayth to the entent they shulde take therof no parte vnto theyr owne prayse but gyue the hole glory to god sholde I saye by hys aduyse vse none endeuoure at all nor do no thynge nor saye no thynge nor thynke no thynge but sytte euen styll sadly and gape by daye agaynste the sonne by nyght agaynste the mone tyll eyther some blynde betle or some holy humble bee come flye in at theyr mouthes and buzze in to theyr brestes an vnholsome hepe of flye blowen errours and motthe eten heresyes And thus good chrysten readers the reason that Tyndale maketh vs agaynste the endeuoure of man towarde the attaynynge of fayth whyche endeuoure he mocketh calleth it a counsayle of betle blynde reason bycause fayth is the gyfte of god I dowte not I saye but that hys reason is suche that a man that were betle blynde in dede may perceyue well inough that Tyndale for lacke of good endeuoure hath had of the gyfte of god lytell wytte and lesse grace in makynge of that feble and vnlawfull reason Tyndals other reason agaynst the good endeuour of mannes wyll is thys Tyndale My wyt muste shewe me a trewe cause or an apparent cause why yere my wyll haue any workynge at all More Lette Tyndale set hys consequente and conclusyon to thys antecedent made of thys reason and saye My wytte muste fyrste shewe me some cause eyther trewe or somwhat semynge trewe before that my wyll can any thynge do at all ergo none endeuoure of my selfe in conformynge and applyenge of my wyll can any thynge do at all And now when hys argumeÌ„t is all made vp ye shall fynde it as full of reason as an egge full of mustarde For what though my wytte and reason muste fyrste set my wyll a wurke can yet my wyll when it is ones moued dyuersly bytwene two reasons no thynge do at all in remouynge an obstynat leâ—ynge to the tone syde or a conformable inclynacyon towarde the consent of the tother If all the fayth of suche trewthes as are taughte were in suche wyse inspyred into euery mannes harte that is a faythfull man as he by that inwarde inspyracion had such a full perfayt and clere perceyuynge therof in the inwarde syghte of the vnderstandynge as the bodyly eye hath of y â— thynge that it playnely seeth and loketh vppon or as the syghte of the soule hath in suche euydent and open conclusyons as it dothe playnely and openly byholde suche I meane as are the generall petycyons in the fyrste boke of Euclidis geometry as that euery hole thynge is more then hys owne halfe or suche other lyke then wold I well agre wyth Tyndale that when the thynge were so shewâ—d vnto my wytte I coulde not but agre therto wyth my wyll But I say that all be it god is able in suche wyse to inspyre and infounde the fayth yf that hym lyste yet I saye that ordynaryly into hys faythfull folke neyther fynall reprobates nor fynall electes for faythfull are at sundry tymes of both the sortes he gyueth not the bylyefe or fayth on that fasshyon For yf he dyd then were it not fayth nor bylyâ—fe but very syghte and knowlege And suche kynde of so certayne and open reuelacyon were vnto the man occasyon of bylyefe and credence necessaryly surely and ineuytable but therfore as it semeth neyther thankworthy nor rewardable Now dothe god wyth hys chrysten folkes ordynaryly take that waye in the gyuynge theym theyr bylyefe and fayth that though they do not meryte wyth any forgoyng good dedes nor deserue the gyfte of byleuynge yet maye they wyth good endeuoure and obedyente conformyte deserue and meryte in the beleuynge And therfore syth god wyll for that cause bynde vs to the bylyefe bycause he wyll that we meryte and be rewarded for our bylyefe the reason of whyche deserte and meryt on our parte standeth in the respecte and regarde that god hath to our obedyence by whyche we wyllyngly submytte our selues to the credence of goddes worde wryten or vnwryten tellynge vs any thynge agaynste oure owne reason tellynge vs the contrary then yf our bylyefe loste hys meryte as that holy pope saynte Gregory sayth it shulde yf reason playnely proued vs the thynge that we byleue so were the meryte of our bylyefe loste in lyke wyse yf the thynge were in suche wyse gyuen vs as we more perfytely perceyued it then we perceyue any suche as reason maye moste perfytely proue vs. And therfore I say that god dothe nat ordinaryly gyue into men the faythe in suche maner bycause he wyll nat vtterlye take awaye the meryte fro man for as moche as he hathe ordayned hym to ioye by the meane of some meryte some conflycte passyon or payne vpon his owne parte though nat sufficient worthy for as saynt Poule sayth all the passyons and sufferaunces of this worlde be nat worthy the glory that is to come that shal be releued in vs yet suche at the leste wyse as his hyghe goodnes accepteth and rewardeth for worthy thorowe the force and strength of those merytes y t are in dede sufficient worthy the merytes I meane of y â— bytter payne and passyon of his alone onely begotten and tenderly beloued sonne Than say I nowe that syth y â— faythe is nat ordinaryly with suche open ineuitable and inuincyble lyghtsomnes inspyred in to the soule that the man muste of necessyte and very fyne force clerely perceyue and agree it but by god prouyded so sufficiently to be shewed taught as he that wyll be conformable and walke with goddes grace may fynde good cause inoughe to captyue his reason to the belefe and yet nat so great and vrgent causes but that he whiche wyll be yll wylled and frowarde may let grace go and fynde him selfe cauellacyons prowdely to test vpon his owne reason agaynste the worde of god eyther sayenge that his reason seeth it nat sufficiently proued for goddes worde as Tyndale sayeth in all goddes
wordes vnwrytten or elles that goddes worde is nat so ment as all Christes churche vnderstandeth them as Tyndale sayeth touchyng y â— playne scriptures agaynste the maryages made bytwene freres nonnes the poyntes of the faythe are nat I saye in suche wyse shewed nor the wytte in tâ—em so thoroughly and so clerely instructed but that the thynge whiche in the wytte lacketh and remayneth imperfyte may by the wyll be perfyted and made vp and in stede of sure and certayne sight be from distruste or doubtefull opinyon broughte by god workynge with mannes wyll into sure faythe and vndouted belefe And this I say for the tyme of this presente lyfe and in the lyfe to come than turned into full syghte and ineuitable contemplacyon And that thys is the ordynary maner of the fayth geuen by god into the soule wyth the plyable and coÌ„fortable wyll of man and not an ineuytable syght of the trouth inspyred into the man whyther he wyll or not in suche maner wyse that he can not chose but bileue it the scryptures be playne and euydent Doth not saynt Poule vnto the Hebrewes in the dyffynycyon of fayth openly and clerely declare that the faythe is an argument or mater of thynges that appere not Now yf the resurreccyon of our owne body were in thys worlde in suche maner apperynge vnto vs as it shall after the resurreccyon when we be in heuen it were now no fayth at all but a sure knowlege And therfore sayth saynte Poule also that we se now as it were but in a glasse perceyue beholde but as it were in a darke rydle but in the tother worlde shall we se face to face To shewe also that god geueth not ordynaryly y e faythe to folke but wyth some maner of towardnes and conformyte of theyr owne good wyll our lorde sayth hym selfe vnto the cytye that he so sore longed to conuerte Hierusalem Hierusalem how oft haue I wylled to gather thy chyldren to gether as an heÌ„ne gathereth to gether her chykeÌ„s and thou woldeste not No man here dowteth but that our lorde yf he wolde haue vsed some suche wayes as he coulde it was in hys power to inspyre the knowlege of hym selfe into theyr hartes and of all thynge that he wolde haue them byleue and that in suche wyse that they sholde not chose but byleue for they sholde not chose but knowe it that in suche wyse that they coulde not haue thought the contrary But god had determyned to brynge man to saluacyon not in suche ineuytable wyse nor wythout some wyllynge conuersyon and turnynge of man towarde hym though man can not turne vnto hym without preuencyon concurraunt helpe of goddes especyall grace But syth the goodnesse of god prouydeth that his grace is euer redy to hym that wyll vse it therfore though the wyll of man maye no thyng do with out grace yet wythout any spekynge of grace we comenly let not to saye man maye do thys and man maye do that as byleue and hope and loue and lyue chast do almoâ—se and faste many such other thynges not menyng though we make no mencyon of grace that man can therfore do them wythout grace Lyke as we saye that a man maye se to threde a nedle and speke no thyng of the lyght and yet mene we nat that he can threde it in the darke And therfore let nat Tyndale loke to bryng vs in darkenesse and because mannes wyll can nothynge do without grace therfore tell vs that mannes wyll can nothynge do nor tell vs neyther that mannes wyll hath no parte in belefe and faythe and make vs wene it were so bicause the wyll can nat as he sayeth go before the wytte wherof experyence proueth many tymes the contrary and sometyme with Tyndale to But thoughe a man can nat haue any wyll at all in that thynge wherof he hathe vtterly nothyng knowen nor herde tell of nor hadde imagynacion in hys mynde nor any thynge thought vpon yet when y e mynde with dyuers reasons and argumentes is ones moued of a mater the wyll as it happeth of other occasyons at y e tyme to be well or euyll affectionate so may gyue it selfe into the consent and agrement of the tone syde or of the tother ye and that somtyme on that syde for affection vpon whiche syde he seeth leste parte of his wytte and reason And therfore it is nat alwaye true that Tyndale sayeth in these wordes Tyndale And than whan we se his mercy we loue hym agayne and chose hym and submytte our selfe to his lawes to walke in them More Here semeth he to gyue as moche to the workynge of mannes wyll concernynge charyte as he before toke from it concernynge faythe For here he sayeth that we chose god and submitte our selfe to his lawes where as of truth without his grace bothe preuentyng vs and concurraunt with vs we can in these thynges neyther do nothynge at all Nowe meneth Tyndall ferther for all this that mannes wyll in these thynges yet dothe nothynge worke at all but of necessyte For he sayeth y e god maketh theÌ„ to se his mercy by fayth without any maner working of their wylles as ye haue herde And than he sayeth that vpon the sight thereof they loue god and chose hym and submytte them selfe to his lawes But yet sayeth he that their wylles do this of ineuitable necessyte And than can no man if Tyndals lye be trewe neyther in faythe nor charyte haue any meryte at all For what can a men deserue in beleuynge y e thynge that he thoroughly seeth or in doynge a thynge whan he can do none other Nowe that Tyndale so saieth is open and playne by these wordes that he consequentely sayeth Tyndale For whan we erre nat in wytte reason and iuâ—ement we can nat erre in wyll choyce of thynges For the choyse of maÌ„nes wyll doth naturally and of her owne accorde folowe the iudgement of a mannes reason whether he iudge ryght or wronge so that in techynge onely resteth the pythe of a mannes lyuinge More Here ye se that Tyndale in louynge and chosynge by whiche man loueth and cheseth god putteth a playne necessyte that mannes wyll can none other do bycause he seeth the mercy of god by faythe whiche as Tyndall fayde before man seeth also of necessyte and so consequently no meryte in neyther nother But Tyndale sayeth vntrue in bothe For man neyther of necessyte seeth the tone nor of neceâ—syte dothe the other but may do the contrary bothe in the tone and the tother and therfore in doynge bothe meryteth in bothe what so euer Tyndale saye But yet sayeth Tindale vntrue in these other two thinges also that is to wytte bothe where he sayeth that whan a man seeth the mercy of god than he loueth and choseth god and submytteth hym selfe to walke in goddes lawes and also where he sayeth for the profe of that poynte that whan we erre nat in wytte we can nat erre in
the respecte of goddes trouthe and promyse Than goeth he forthe and bosteth hyghly thys maner of felynge faythe that is heresyes in stede of faythe as I haue in myne answere proued and therein he spendeth vp that chapyter But yet thoughe he thus descrybe the electe churche yet dothe he nat proue that this is the churche whyche we muste here and obeye For god hathe commaunded vs to complayne to the churche and here the churche and obey the churche And therfore though we agreed euery thyng that he sayeth in his chapyter he had yet sythe his electes are vnknowen proued thereby no pece of hys pryncypall purpose that is to wytte whiche is the churche Also where hys tytle of that chapyter is whyther the chyrche maye erre Tyndale sayenge that the catholyke chyrche maye erre whyther the electe chyrche whyche hym selfe taketh for the chyrche maye erre or not he sayth not in all that chapyter any one worde And so is hys chapyter neyther any thynge towarde hys pryncypall purpose nor yet whyche is more shame for hym any thynge conteyneth in it belongynge to the mater of the tytle Then cometh he forth wyth hys other chapyter that a trewe member of Chrystes chyrche synneth not and is yet for all that a synner whiche chapiter besydes that it is but a fonde rydle with nothynge but a hepe of folysshe heresyes as I haue proued yet is it also towarde the mater that is to wytte whiche is the churche nothyng to the purpose at all for as moche as thoughe he sayeth that they can do no dedely synne yet he confesseth that they may do suche horryble dedes as muste nedes make them be taken for the chyldren of the deuyll After commeth his other goodly rydle that a chrysten man can nat erre and howe he may yet erre And therein he telleth vs as I haue before shewed you y t the electes can nat erre in y e promyses of god as for all other errours none can he sayeth be dampnable to theym thoughe the contrary of theyr errour be wrytten in the very gospell By whiche doctryne of hys ye may se that errours of doctryne in maner of liuynge Tyndale taketh for a small matter bycause they be no promyses of god And therfore is Tyndale nat greatly to be beleued whan he techeth vs that freres may wedde nonnes bicause it is no promyse of god but a promyse of the frere to the nonne of y â— nonne to the frere eche of them wedded and bedded with other and bothe twayne wedded and bedded with the deuyll yet ye se well that thys chapyter yf it were all as trewâ— as it is all false proueth yet no thynge whyche is the chyrche where as he sholde fayste haue proued that the electes onely be the chyrch and then after serche whyther they can erre or not Then cometh he forth wyth hys other chapyterâ— that the fayth whyche he hath before descrybed is euer foughten wythall But in y â— electes it is in suche wyse inexpugnable y â— wheÌ„ they ones haue it it caÌ„ neuer at any tyme after fayle Now this great conclusyon wherof he maketh this chapyter is such that as ye se well therupon dependeth many greate maters yet doth he not in all thys chapyter brynge forth any maner thynge for the profe eyther reason scrypture or other authoryte but onely by hys owne bare word telleth vs that it is so Now yf he tolde vs a thynge well knowen or comenly byleued I sholde not blame hym But now to tell vs suche a thynge so straunge and vnto euery man saue hym selfe so inopynable such as no man wold wene were lykely to be trew byd vs so boldely byleue it and saue his owne bare wurshypfull word tell vs no cause why it is eyther a poynt of a man more authorysed then an apostle or ellys lesse wytted then a very fole Fynally cometh he forth at laste wyth hys chapyter of whyche he calleth the maner order of our eleccyon Therin he telleth vs concernynge electes and y â— order of theyr chosyng that god doth fyrste chose them and after calleth them techeth them maketh theym se theyr daÌ„pnacyon in the lawe mercy layed vp for them in hym and what he wyll haue them do And theÌ„ they chose god agayn submytte them selfe to hys lawes to walke in them And that thynge he sayth the man doth of necessyte bycause his wyll can do none other but hys wytte muste nedes se the thynges that god maketh hym se his wyll muste nedes agre to folow so the thynge that hys wytte sâ—eth Then he telleth vs that the mercy of god allwaye wayteth vpon the electe by reason wherof he can neuer so fall but y t he shall ryse agayne But yet he sheweth vs forther that for all thys the electe synketh downe somtyme â—alleth into traunces and slepes by whyche he forgeteth hym selfe and then doth dyuers horryble abomynable dedes in hys slepe But yet in all hys horryble dedes he doth no dedely synne bycause he doth them all of fraylte and infyrmyte and none of them of purpose or wyllyngly For wyllyngly can he not do them bycause he lyeth a slepe nor in all y â— whyle hys fayth neuer fayleth at any tyme. And thys he proueth vs by thensamples of kynge Dauyd and saynt Peter and saynt Thomas of Inde and the other apostles For there was he sayth none of these that in all y â— euer we rede in the scrypture reproued in theyr dedes as aduoutry manslaughter not byleuynâ— forsakyng or forsweryng of god y â— euer was any dedely synne yet or any faylynge of fayth at any tyme whyle they dyd it And thys he nothynge proueth but telleth and loketh that for the wurshyp of hys bare worde we sholde byleue it And here is all Tyndals hole tale that he hath from the begynnynge hytherto tolde vs wherby we sholde lerne of hym whyche is the chyrche and whyther the chyrche maye erre or not In all whych who so loke it thorow myne answere therwith shall well perceyue y â— he hath not in all his hole processe halfe a lefe to gyther nor almost halfe a lyne without one great foly at y â— lest or els a lye and an halfe Consyder nowe that of hys electes whyche is of hys wordes mych a do to perceyue they be so darke and so intryked of purpose wythout any dependence or order yet in the ende when all is gathered to gydâ—r and aduysed well thys is the hole somme that god choseth a certayne whom he lyketh And when he choseth them Tyndale telleth not whyther before the worlde made or after them selfe borne But vnto them he sendeth forth calleth them theym he gyueth a felynge fayth wherby they fele surely that they shall be saued wythout any regarde of good workes and then they chose hym agayne agre to walke in his lawes But before theyr felyng fayth had they neuer
euer sayd such a thyng or durste for very shame so that all the world therby may well perceyue and se that of all shamefull shamelesse sectys that the deuyll can dyuyse these be the botome of the draffe tubbe and the moste poysoned dregges But now doth Tyndale after this to proue that the credence geuen vnto the catholyque chyrche muste nedes be weke feble brynge in the Turkes the Iewes agaynst vs in this maner wyse Tyndale The Turkes beynge in â—omber fyue tymes mo then we knowlege one god and byleue many thynges of god moued onely by the authoryte of theyr elders and presume that god wyll not let so great a multytude erre so longe tyme. And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse this .viii. hundred yeres And the Iewes byleue thys daye as myche as the carnall sorte of theym euer byleued moued also by the authoryte of theyr elders onely and thynke that yt is impossible for theÌ„ to erre beyng Abrâ—hams seed and the chyldren of theÌ„ to whom the promysses of all that we byleue were made And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse thys .xv. hundred yeres And we of lyke blyndneâ—â—e byleue only by the authoryte of our elders and of lyke pryde thynke that we can not erre beynge such a multytude And yet we se how god in the olde testament dyd let the great multytude erre reseruynge alwaye a lytle floâ—ke to call the other backe agayne and to testyfye vnto them the ryght waye More Lo good chrysteÌ„ reders in these wordes Tindale geueth a specyall goodly doctryne y t yf we byleue the doctryne of the catholyke chyrch of Cryste then haue we no more suertye of our fayth then the Turkes haue of theyrs or y â— Iewes of theyrs consyderynge that the Turkes excede vs so farre in nomber and the Iewes matche vs in tyme. I meruayle myche that Tyndale addeth not vnto them the Paynems also as his mayster Luther dyd in the same argument For the Paynems passed bothe the catholyque Chrysten chyrche and the false Iewes and Turkes and Sarasyns and the false heretyqâ—es to as wâ—ll in tyme as nombâ—â— But yet I meruayle myche more that he hath so lytle wyt as to wene that the bryngynge in any of them all were any thynge at all to purpose For well ye wote good crysten reders that as I haue touched all redy we haue in geuynge credence vnto the catholyke chyrche two maner of mocions one kynde of outwarde causes such as myght yf the mater were wordely moue maÌ„nys reason to the full agrement and consent therof And that the tother mocyon is in them that byfore theyr baptysme haue vse of reason the goodnesse of god fyrste preuentynge them wyth the occasyons of some outwarde mocyon and then walkynge and workynge wyth theyr confyrmable wyllys into the coÌ„sent of that godly treuth and therwyth geuynge theym by baptysme that grace to is rewardable wyth glorye but yf some other synne be the let vpon theyr part And in such as are baptised yong y e inwarde mocyon is the same goodnes of god preuentynge theym with the habytuall fayth infouÌ„ded in the sacrament of baptysme Uppon the seed wherof wyth the good helpe of goddes grace there spryngeth after in the good and well appliable wyll of man the frute of credence and bylyefe whyche they geue vnto crystes catholyke chyrche accordyng to his owne commaundement vppon the preachyng of the same chyrch in the reasons whyche the same chyrche by goddes good ordynaunces geueth as outwarde meanes of credence and enducynge to the bylyefe both of yt selfe and of the scrypture of euery part of fayth as I byfore spake of and shall hereafter speke more Now as for thys inwarde cause we can not bynde the hethen by For though we tell yt theym they wyll not byleue vs or peraduenture tell vs the same tale of them selfe and saye that god moueth theym But vn the tother syde vnto all good crysten men thys thynge muste nedes make yt open that Tyndale in bryngynge forth for his part the Iewes the Turkes to make vs byleue that we maye be as well deceyued in byleuynge the catholyke chyrche syth Crystes days hyther to that the bokes of the new testameÌ„t be the trew scrypture of god as the Iewes in theyr Talmud or the Turkes in theyr Alcharon are deceyued in the beleuynge of theyr elders is a very frantyke blyndenesse For syth amonge all crysten men this is a playne bylyef that the chyrche of Criste is gouerned by the spyryte of god in y â— trewth that all those other chyrches are gouerned be the deuyll in theyr falsed now is to good chrysten people Tyndals argument none other then euen thys The chyrches that are gouerned in falsshed by the deuyll that ledeth them into falsshedâ— maye be deceyued and erre ergo the chyrche that is gouerned in trewth by the spyryte of god that ledeth it into all trouth maye be deceyued and erre in lyke wyse syth they be not so many as the false Turkes be nor haue not coÌ„tynued so longe as the false Iewes haue Is not thys a substancyall reason trowe you fyrste for the inwarde causes of our fayth and theyrs whiche causes arre bytwene vs and them more farre vnlyke thenne are theyr fayth and oures And then as for the outwarde causes of our fayth Tyndale maketh as though we had none other but lengthe of tyme or nomber of peple wherin some fase sectes passe vs. But surely yf we were now to talke wyth eyther Turke oâ— Iewe as we be to talke wyth these heretykes we wolde haue outwarde causes inough to laye wherfore the catholyke chyrche ought of reason to be byleued before any of theyrs and agaynste them all to and yet mo good causes haue we for that poynt to lay agaynst these heretykes then agaynste all the tother But Tyndale wyll happely saye to me therin as Luther answered the kynges grace that the Turke wolde laughe at all our reasons But thys is a wyse answere surely that we sholde be ashamed of euery reason that the Turke wolde laugh at and laye forâ—â— none but suche as we be sure the Iewes and turkes woâ—â— allowe Then must our sauyour Cryste haue holde hys pâ—ace for the Iewes alowed not hys But lyke wyse as though all wolde not yet many dyd and euyn so sholde they now I dowte it not And lyke wyse as though the remanâ—uÌ„t wolde not yet had they causes inough shewed them why they sholde so shold these now haue to But syth Tyndale wyll in no wyse agre that for the catholyke chyrche we coulde lay any causes vnto the Iewes or Turkes wherfore they sholde of reason gyue any credence to it and vppon the credence of it to take the newe testament â—â—r scrypture as saynt Austayne sayth that hym selfe dyâ— then yf we wolde any sende thyther to preche the trewe â—â—â—ypture amonge them and make them fyrste pâ—rceyue and byleue which bokes be the very scrypturys
Now yf the seed of god in the crysten man be ment hys grace by whyche men come to fayth hope and cheryte and do good workes wythall not wythout the consent and applyeng of theyr owne fre wylles therto such folke as haue vse of reason workynge wyth god for theyr pore parte towarde theyr owne saluacyon wyth the instrument y t god of hys onely goodnesse hath made and gyuen them therunto yf he meane that thys seed of goddes grace dwelleth styll in man to kepe hym from fallynge to synne I saye that it is very trew as longe as man wyll cleue therunto let his owne wyll worke therwith But whē so euer he wyll withdraw his owne wyll therfro to folowe the world the flesshe or the deuyll then lyke as his wyll departeth from grace so doth ordinarily y e seed of grace depart out of him Now yf he meane by the seed of god that the spyryte of god dwelleth in the Crysten man by any other specyall maner of dwellynge aboue such dwellyng as he dwelleth in other men by hys power and presence of hys godhed then onely by his fauour grace which other speciall maner yf Tyndale meane any such I can not cōceyue syth I make my selfe sure that he meaneth no suche dwellynge in vnyte of person as the seconde person of y e godhed dwelleth with the manhode of Cryste yet yf he deuyse and meane any other maner of dwellynge by whyche the spyryte of god dwelleth wyth the faythfull man I say that the spyryte dwelleth in hym and helpeth hym to contynue suche as longe as the man wyll by the applyenge of hys owne wyll contynue wyth the spyryte But I saye that the man may by the frowardnesse of hys fre wyll at the mocyon of the flesshe or instygacyon of the deuyll or entycement of y e worlde hys fayth remaynynge fall from cheryte and put the spyryt from hym As dyd the peple of Gerasens which seynge Crystes myracle wrought vppon the madde man out of whom he dyd caste the deuyll bycause he draue the deuyll into theyr hoggys and therby draue theyr hoggys into the se though well they perceyue what a myghty lord he was and of what goodnes to in that they saw hym delyuer the man from the legyon of deuyls and therfore loued hym somwhat of lykelyhed and wolde haue ben glad to haue had hym dwell styll wyth them yet ferynge that by the castynge out of mo deuyls they myghte afterwarde happely lese mo of theyr hogges they prayed hym courteysely to gete hym quykly thense yet god when man hath put hym out of hys dwellyng doth of hys great goodnesse not alwayes vtterly leue hym for hys vnkyndnesse but though yf the man dye ere god come in agayne god shall of iustyce for hys vnkyndnesse houeth styll about y e dore of his harte alway knockyng vppon hym to be by the fre wyll of man let in with his grace into the howse of mānes harte agayn accordyng to y e wordes of our sauyour in the Apocalipse where he sayth I stande at the dore knockyng How be it a man may be so froward obstynate in synne when he hath expelled god out of his hart may dreue hym with synne vpon sinne and dispyghtfull cyrcūstaūces so farre of fro the dore as some of these heretykes do which in dispyght of vertuouse vowes of chastyte rūne out wedde nōnes lyue in lechery and in dispyght of y ◠lenton faste eate flesh vpon good fryday and in dyspyght of the blessed sacramētes of y e awter cast the precyous body of Cryst out of the pyx y ◠god shall iustely for y e hougenes of theyr abominaciō withdraw hym selfe so farre y t he shall peraduenture neuer approche nere vnto thē agayn nor neuer after offer them hys grace And then muste they nedes neuer cease fallynge tyll they come downe to the deuyll Thus fynally concernyng hys seconde poynt fayth alone may dwell in a man and dedely synne togyther But lyuely fayth y t is to wyt fayth not alone but coupled with hope cheryte wyll of good workes can not dwell with dedely synne neyther wyth manslaughter aduowtry nor any suche lyke but as the tone cōmeth in the tother goth out whyther the synne be cōmytted of malyce weykenesse or frayltye wherof Tyndale very styffely techeth vs vntruly y t cōtrary And yet I say not that all synnes be of one wayght concernyng the dyffycultye of returnyg to repētaūce or y e degrees of payne in hell after the finall impenytence or punyshement in purgatory for lacke of penaunce here but for that yf they dye before they retourne by grace and good wyll vnto penaūce they be all perpetually dampned in hell the tone as well as the tother though the tone not so mych as the tother contrary to Tyndals aforesayd false cōclusyon whose profe in that poynt specyally dependeth vppon hys thyrde artycle wherof the wordes be trew hys vnderstandyng false For hys thyrde poynt ye wote well is thys that who so euer haue the seed of god dwellynge in hym can not synne Thys poynt ye remember he proueth by the wordes of saynte Iohn̄ in the thyrde chapyter of hys fyrste pystle whyche pystle is vndowtedly one of the moste harde and darke places of all the new testament and wherof sundry great heresyes haue rysen sondry mo there may thorow suche malycyouse myndes as rede the scrypture to none other entent but to wreste euery word vnto y ◠worse parte and of the playnesse and symplicite that the apostles vsed in the maner of theyr wordes take occasyō to tourne theyr erneste godly sentence into friuolouse cauyllacyons and sophysines as not onely dyuerse heretykes haue done of olde but also Tyndale hath now of newe bothe renewed theyr olde added some of his own more pestylent more folysh also then all the olde heretykes durst for very shame haue spokē of And where as all y e olde holy doctours vsed alway to make open expoune the hard darke places of scrypture by suche other as were playne clere euydent these heretykes alwaye for the profe of theyr heresyes seke out the hardest places y t can be founden in scrypture And all the playne open wordes in whych can be no dowte nor questiō they come and expoune by those places y ◠be darke obscure hard to vnderstand mych lyke a blynd guyde y ◠wolde when men were walkyng in a darke nyght put out the candell and shew them the way by the lanterne This way vseth Tyndale vnyuersally as well in euery other thyng y t he taketh in hand to proue as in this poynt specyally y ◠he which hath onys the fayth can neuer synne bycause he hath y e seed of god dwellyng in hym For where as it is euydent playne by clere and open textes of scrypture full plentuouse in euery part therof that there is no man here excepte some
rocke the cradle tyll the babe awake by him selfe And surely he rather semeth to say that god nat awaketh hym out of his luste but letteth hym slepe in his luste vntyll his luste haue lefte him As though goddes callyng of men from glotony were nat to put them in mynde and call vpon them besely and inspyre good thoughtes of temperaunces whyle they be at theyr mete but lette them than alone as in a traunce and a slepe tyll they be so wery of eatynge that the grefe and gryndyng in theyr belyes standynge a strutte with stuffynge call theym vp and awake them And that is a good easy waye to for than be they the more easy to entreate to faste and forbere but nat moche lenger than tyll they waxe an hungered agayne And as it fareth in the traunces and slepes that folke fall in by the bely so fareth it lykewyse in the traunces and slepes that folke fall in by those partes that are benethe the bely For whan the rage is thereof as Tyndall sayeth ouer passed and that they haue in theyr traunce and theyr slepe played out all theyr luskysshe lustes than they awake And than as sone as they be awake they repent as Tyndale sayeth ano come agayne to chastyte without resystence But euer more I wold that Tyndale shulde remembre that all this tale whiche he telleth vs here is for his purpose of electes a tale of very lytell effecte For this tale of suche slepynge and awakynge of electes is nothing propre to the electes but a thynge commune bothe to the electes and to the reprobates to And these rages and these traunces these slepes in synfull flesshely lustes into whiche folke fall and out of whiche they wake agayne and repent the thynge that Tyndale telleth vs here as a thynge farre fatte and sought and serched out of the very botome of his depe diuinite y e same thyng in a maner as for thus farforthe doctour Ouide descrybeth vs well plainly in his pleasaunte poetry entytled the remedy of loue where he declareth after Tyndals fasshyon full clerkely how some wanton louers after theyr rages passed and theyr lustes played out lye then wakyng and haue medytacyons of amendement and of leuyng of theyr lecherouse loue euyn lyeng by theyr lemmans sydes and thynke they wyll come there no more and wolde wyth good wyll that they hadde not come there than neyther In thys chapyter whyche Tyndale entytleth the order of eleccyon I loke alwaye that he sholde as reason is tell vs those thynges that properly pertayne vnto the electes the thynges that contrary wyse appertayne properly to the reprobates by whyche maner of handelyng of y e mater we myght clerely perceyue vnderstande what he meneth and what order of goddes wurkyng or of the wurkynge of mannes owne wyll he putteth in the course progresse of the tone sorte and the tother towarde theyr fynall ende the tone of euerlastynge lyfe the tother of eternall dāpnacyon And alway whyle I loke for this Tyndale besyde that hys conclusyons be false heresyes in the ende telleth vs no thynge almoste by the waye excepte onely peraduenture y t laste repentaunce before the deth but that they be comune as well to the fynall reprobates as to the fynall electes as thys is also that in hys chapyter foloweth where he wryteth in thys wyse Tyndale God now and than withdraweth his hand and leueth them vnto theyr owne strength to make thē fele that there is no power to do good but of god onely leste they sholde be proude of that whiche is none of theyrs More Tyndale maketh these wordes for a grounde of a great mater concernynge the order of god vsed towarde the electes And vpon thys fundacyō he specyally rereth hys byeldynge of the traunces and the slepes and slydinges of the electes into synnes and errours in whyche synnes yet they synne not and in whyche errours yet they erre not bycause of theyr felynge fayth From whyche though they fall yet they fal not bycause they fele it still though they fele it not But what is there good reder in these wordes of hys y ◠he speketh of the electes that is not veryfyed bothe in the electes and in the reprobates to Now yf he say that he speketh here specyally of the electes bycause at somtyme god wythdraweth hys hand from them that from reprobates he wythdraweth his hande of helpe and grace alwaye If he saye thus he sayth vntrewe For doeth not god as he of hys goodnesse calleth them and at theyr comynge receyueth them so when they fall awaye by false fayth or faynte harte or flesshely delectacyon calle vppon them agayne as he doeth vppon hys electys wythout accepcyon of persons or parcyall fauour indyfferently tyll he eyther some tyme for theyr immesurable outrage or comenly for theyr fynall impenytence fynally reiecteth and refuseth them Amonge whych fatherly cure and care for them as well as for hys electes before theyr fynall fall he vseth the same wayes to wynne saue them that he vseth to the other ye and doth somtyme peraduenture gyue more of hys gracyouse ayde helpe in this world toward saluacyon in heuen vnto some reprobate wretche that wyll for all that be damned then to some of hys electes that wyll so wurke wyth hys grace that he fynally shall be saued As I dowte not but some two soules haue ben saued and now syt in heuen wyth the tone halfe of the grace that Iudas had and caste of and fynally fell into hell And therfore thys that Tyndale here telleth vs of electes that god somtyme wythdraweth hys hande and leueth them to theyr owne strength he maye as well tell vs of the reprobates as of the electes Now the cause why god wythdraweth hys hande and hys helpe is not alwaye the cause that Tyndale here alledgeth bycause he longeth alway to make a glaunce agaynst all the meryt of mannes fre wyll but to auoyde the pryde of the mynde and the farre lesse boldnes presumynge vpon the surtye of hye holy lyuynge or fayth whyche many men maye fall in by takynge them selfe for god almyghtys mynyons though they gyue all the thanke to hym selfe and ascrybe no thynge to theyr owne strength at all nor wene they haue no fre wyll at all neyther For the proude pharysey that dyspysed the pore publycane though he were proude of hys dedes yet ascrybed them not vnto hym self nor sayd not all thys haue I done good lord of myne owne strength But he sayd I thanke the therof good lorde that I am suche and that thou haste made me better and gyuē me the grace to lyue more holyly then thys publycane and sayed not I thanke therof my selfe And therfore as I say god wythdraweth hys hande to shewe hys electes and the dede all thynge rekened from the fyrst to the laste came onely of god hym selfe And saynt Poule sayeth what hast thou that thou hast nat receyued and than what
bycause they were but women whan the apostels them selfe knâ—we these women for suche as they were worthy more credence some one of them than some many men And for to excuse the apostels in the lacke of belefe bycause the messyngers were but women Tyndale dothe therein no more but lay lacke and ouersyght in oure sauyour that in a thynge that he wolde haue beleued sent out suche women on his myssage But Tyndale woteth well if he beleue the gospell that no more they dyd whan they sawe the myracle of hym selfe commyng in before them the dores beynge shette and spekynge vnto them but were so farre fro the belefe of his resurreccion at the fyrste that they had went that he had ben some spirite tyll he nat onely preched to them but also reasoned with them there vpon Nor yet saynte Thomas whiche as Tyndale sayeth coulde nat beleue tyll he sawe Chryste neyther dyd beleue the woman nor all his awne felowes nor our sauyour him selfe vpon the syght neyther tyll he felt him fully and put hys fynger in his syde And this he dyd of stoberne standynge in his mysse belefe in that after his belefe lackinge he went nat about to seke the truthe and endeuoure hym selfe to beleue them that tolde him the trouthe but as it semeth by the gospell obstinately stode in his distruste and sayd tyll he dyd that he thought of lykelyhede he neuer shuld that is to wytte tyll he felte hym and put his fynger into his woundes he wolde neuer beleue it And I saye plainly who so euer beynge enfourmed of any artycle of the faythe whiche god byndeth vs to beleue beleueth it nat the cause why he beleueth nat is nat bycause he can nat but bycause he wyll nat For if he wolde do the thynge whiche Tyndale taketh for foly that is to wytte nat resyste but endeuour hym selfe to submytte hys reason vnto faythe with askynge helpe of god for the fortheraunce of his imperfeccion he thus doynge hys parte god wolde I say nat fayle on his parte agayne but wolde effectually worke with hym to perfyte in hym the faythe in whyche he preuenteth hym by gâ—ace whyche preuencyon was whan he gaue hym the grace and occasyon to be fyrst tolde of the mater But euer cometh Tyndale by degrees euer he seeth hym selfe lykely to be dreuen fro steppe to steppe And therfore where he sayd y t the elecâ—e can nat synne dedely fyrste he alledgeth for the cause therof that he synneth neuer but vpon great occasyons And seynge that a man may therto say what than He goeth to another steppe and saieth that he neuer consenteth to synne And than seynge that steppe wyll nat be defended he goeth to another and sayeth he consenteth nat to synne to serue it And perceyuynge that he can nat stande sure there he steppeth downe to y e nexte and sayeth that he casteth nat of from his necke the yoke of of loue toward the law of god And yet perceyuynge y â— that steppe wyll not holde hym neyther he cometh at laste vnto a nother steppe and sayth he casteth it not of malycyously trustynge bycause we can not loke into the mannes breste to se whyther he bare any malyce therin we shold neuer be able to conuycte hym of that worde when he put on ys ther to malycyously And yet from y e steppe haue I dreuen hym therin haue I begyled his hope as ye before haue herde in the synnes of king Dauid by the wordes of god spoken by the mouth of Nathan the prophete Now as he played there so playeth he by the apostles here For fyrste he sayth they lost neuer the fayth bycause they were amased then astonyed and then aferde thâ—n bycause they coulde not perceyue the thynge for possâ—ble Ans yet at last he cometh so nere to the grauntynge y t they lacked it y t by playne wordes at length he sayth the same thyng hym selfe affermyng y t they byleued not nor coulde not byleue And yet wolde he now make vs wene that though they byleued not yet had they no lacke of the fayth bycause in the lacke of theyr bylyefe they hadde no malice And that thynge he proueth thus Tyndale There was none of them that euer â—aysed on hym and came so farre fâ—rth â—o say he was a deceyueâ— and wrought with the deuyls craâ—te all this whyle se wherunto he is come in the enâ—e we defye hym false wretâ—he that he was and his false doctriâ—e also And therunto music they haue comâ— at the lasâ—e when feare sorow and wonderynge had ben pasâ—e yf they had not â—en pâ—euented and holpen in the meane season More Lo good chrysteÌ„ reders here hath Tyndale taught vs y t who so byleue not y e resurreccyoÌ„ of Chryst yet all y â— whyle he rayleth not vpoÌ„ hym calleth him wrech defieth him he is saue inough For all y e whyle though they byleue not yet lacketh he not hys kylyef And then if he be an â—lecte â— he shal be preuented of god holpen before ere euer he fall in to suche blasphemy But yf he be a reprobate then whan he cometh onys into y e case that y e apostles were in as Tindale sayth he shall for lacke of suche preuencyon helpe fall iâ—to suche raylyng and blasphemye then is he remedylesse he sayth And therfore sayth he bothe here and in dyuerse places that the seed of god preuâ—nteth alwaye and kepeth preserueth the electes from fallynge into y e case Here is a goodly tale be ye sure But now wherby shall Tyndale of thys doctryne make vs sure The gospell to begynne wyth for one pece maketh vs sure of the contrary For therin we fynde that the traytoure Iudas whyche was I wene as farre from the bylyefe of the resurreccyon as euer was saynt Thomas of Inde came neuer yet vnto suche raylynge and blasphemynge of Chryst as Tyndale sayth that the apostles bycause they byleued not had they not ben by grace preuented must nedes haue comen vnto For when he went about to make his bargayn bytray hym and sell hym we fynde not that he called hym false wretche nor no suche vylanouse word And after we fynde that when he repented and brought agayne the money he was farre from raylynge vppon hym and sayed I haue offended god in bytrayenge the ryghtuouse blode And surely though he had at the sellyng rayled as mych vpon him toward hys passyoÌ„ as Tyndale in hys bokes now rayleth iesteth vpon hym in the blessed sacrament after hys resurreccyon yet dare I be bolde vpon hys mercy to say that yf that olde Iudas in his repentauÌ„ce had with the loking vppon hys own synne loked also vpoÌ„ the great mercy of god and also that yf Tyndale now thys new Iudas wyll repeÌ„t hys raylynge agaynst Chrystes blessed body the sacrameÌ„t of the awlter aske our lord mercy therfore both the tone sholde haue had the tother shall haue remyssyon and
other place to which this mater moche more apê‘tayneth yet syth Tyndale sayeth here hym selfe that the cause why no suche glose nedeth to those wordes of oure sauyour is bycause that saynt Peters faythe neuer fayled in his owne persone he confesseth thereby that if it euer at any tyme fayled in his person than at the leâ—te wyse some glose there nedeth And than dare I be bolde to say that if there any nede the glose thaÌ„ that he mocketh let him reherse it right is suche as he wyll nat thys fyue yere fynde a better But leauynge that glose as I say tyll I come to my dyaloge yet to se in the meane whyle whether any glose neded or none syth Tyndale agreeth that there neded if y â— faythe at any tyme fayled in saynt Peter I shall nat lette for his pleasure ones agayne to serche whether the faythe at any tyme fayled in saynt Peter or no. And to th entent that we may deale well and playnly to gether let hym me fyrste agre to gether what the thinge is whervpon we dispute For he vseth often whan he is conuycted to say that he toke thys worde or that worde otherwyse than we take hym therein Let vs therfore fyrste bycause we speke of faythe here hym declare what hym selfe calleth faythe To thys after that he sawe hym selfe shamefully confuted concernynge hys heresye of fayth alone suffycyent for saluacyon he sayth that he calleth not a dede fayth any fayth but he meaneth all waye by fayth a very chrysten fayth that hath the loue therwyth by reason wherof it can not but worke well Now shall ye se how courteysely that I shall handle Tyndale For all be it ye se well that I myghte by many meanes and many playne authorytees as well of saynte Iamys as saynte Poule and the very gospell to conuycte hym in that poynte as I haue often done all redy yet shall I for hys pleasure lette all that passe for thys tyme and take fayth as he sayth he taketh it hym selfe But then aske I Tyndale thys tyme whyther that in the tyme in whyche Peter forsoke and forswore Chryst he dyd byleue wyth suche a bylyefe that then wroughte well wyth loue If he saye ye then syth the worke that he then wroughte was the forsakynge and forswerynge of Chryste it muste nedes folowe that he sayth that the forsakynge and forswerynge of Chryste was a good worke And then wyll it theruppon folow that syth saynte Peter wepte sorowfully therfore he was vere sory and sore repented hym that he hadde well wroughte wyth loue and done a good worke So that I se no remedy but that Tyndale muste nedes be he neuer so loth confesse and graunth vs that saynt Peter in that tyme dyd not byleue wyth loue y â— wrought well Now thynketh me than that bytwene Tyndale and me there lacketh now but one thynge and that is what we call faylynge For the better perceyuynge wherof I wyll aske Tyndale thys If saynt Peter had holde on styll in that forsakyng and that periury styll all hys lyfe so fynally dyed therin and had yet for all that all the whyle byleued in hys herte all the artycles of y e trew fayth the coÌ„trary of all y t he sayd not onely rayled no thyng all y e whyle agaynst Chryst but also loued hym to sauyng not so well but y t he wold rather forswere y t euer he sawe hym then to suffer payne sorow for hym I aske I say of Tyndale yf saynt Peter had contynued his lyfe dyed in this state had not then at no tyme in his lyfe his fayth y t Tindale calleth fayth y t is to say his bylefe with well workyng loue fayled hym yf he say no theÌ„ wyll it folow vpoÌ„ Tindals word y t there may be many faythfull folke wyth a well workynge loue eternally dampned in hell excepte it be false that our sauyour sayth He that denyeth me before the worlde I wyll denye hym before the angels of god and he that wyll saue hys lyfe in thys worlde shall lese it The moste parte I suppose that of the chrysten people shall be dampned the cause of theyr dampnacyon shall be that where as they byleue ryght and loue god also so farre forth as he wyll let them liue as they lyst and make mery and bynde theym to nothynge that they haue no lust to do loue hym not yet so suffycyentely as for the loue that they bere hym they wyll rather forbere the pleasours of theyr lyfe and also rather dye then dedely to dysplease hym by the doynge of any suche thynge as he wyll rather that they shall dye then do it Now se I therfore no remedy but that Tyndale muste nedes agre that yf saynt Peter had in such state lyued and dyed hys fayth well workynge by loue had fayled hym Then syth it hadde then in sometyme at the leste wyse fayled hym lette vs deuyde that tyme of that state of hys from hys fyrste denyeâ—ge and forswerynge vnto the very minute of hys dyenge supposynge to contynue styll and dye to in the same state into fyue egall partes yf it please hym and then haue we fyue tymes all of one fasshyon to whyche fyue tymes Tyndale yf it please hym maye gyue names to and call them A B C D E. Now saye I than syth Tyndale muste nedes agre y t nâ— some of these fyue tymes Peters fayth fayled I aske in whyche of them wherto syth they be all fyue of one fashyoÌ„ concernynge hys fayth he muste nedes graunte that in all fyue it fayled hym Let vs now then somwhat chaunge our case from that that myghte haue ben in to that that was in dede And after that Peters fayth had fayled in the thre fyrste tymes that is to saye those that are named ABC partes of the hole tyme wherof ABCDE were all the partes lette vs put that in the fourth parte â—hyche we called D Peter reâ—ented by helpe of goddes grâ—ce thorow y e meane of Chrystes foresayde prayoure and thâ—t hys lâ—â—ynge bylyefe so came to hym agayne in that â—yme whyâ—h we â—â—lled D and that he wolde euer after â—ather suffer tenne tymes to dye then onys to forsake god agayne Now aske I Tyndale whether y â— not faylynge of his fayth now in the latter partes of hys tyme y t is to wyt in D E doth now make it trewe that hys fayth fayleth hym not before whyle it fayled hym in dede in the thre formar tymes ABC the thre partes of hys hole tyme ABCDE Now what Tyndale must nedes answere vnto thys he can tell well inough I warraunt when he loketh in hys carde vpon those letters in hys crosse rowe For there he muste nedes se that though hys fayth fayleth neuer after whyle it fayled not yet before whyle it fayled it â—ayled ê‘de wherof the prefe is so playne vppon hys crosse row that he muste nedes se
farre passe them in thynges of farre greater wayghte For M. Tyndale as late as ye were cyrcumcysed yet this â—ote ye well your self or at the leest wise ye thynk it is so that god hath stired vp among vs syns the time of Moises almoost an hundred prophetes And surely he hath styred vp very many of whom besyde the .xii. that are accompâ—ed in parte of our scripture we haue many of sundry ages passed in whose bokes we fynd wryten expositions commentes vppon our scriptures and those men were good holy men for whome god shewed many greate miracles and for none of our aduersaries he neuer shewed one And in theyr olde bokes fynde we that in the pointes for which these men and we vary now a dayes those olde prophetes and interpretours of the scripure were of the mynde that we be and the people of theyr tymes to till that these men of the tother side brought in this newe doctrine whiche is vntrewe but euyn now of late in comparison of the longe tyme in whiche the contrary was taught by holy men and bileued by the people afore So that this beynge wayed considered we passe them in nombre tyme and miracles that is to say beside the lengthe of tyme and the nombre of men we passe theyr parte by one whose eternitie passeth all tyme whose infinitie passeth all nombre that is almighty god hym selfe which hath for thexpositours of our part many times by miracles declared his fauour against those that expowne the scripture on theyr parte for whom he neuer shewed none For as for the myracles don in the temple or in the temple pole they can nat draw to theyr parte agaynst vs sithe they be nat shewed to declare the trouthe of any particular man but onely to gyue knowledge that the chyrche or sinagoge of the Iewys is the chyrche of god here in erthe in whiche as well we as they that is to wyt as well the trâ—w as the false as well the good as the bad be for the while togyther tyll Messias come that shall make a new chyrche a greater and a better â— and the trew from the false moche better knowen to I doubte nat but Tyndale shulde at that tyme amonge the Iewis in Ierusalem haue herd his doute disputed and debated thus And than coulde he nat with any good reason haue douted but that the false phariseis had ben well answered by the trew and so shulde he haue knowen euyn than of the very chyrche there whiche parte he shulde haue bileued though the thing had sum difficulty there bicause the sundry sectes abode styll to gyther but yâ— it the continuaunce and succession of the trouthe from the begynnynge shulde into that darkenes haue cast a meâ—ely good â—â—ght Now yf Tindale wyll here denye me and say that â—here were no suche holy men of them that from age to age lefte any suche bokes behynde theym when so euer he so shall answere me he shall then here what I shall saye more vnto hym But as for thys tyme I shall not nede to let therfore For though there had not bene suche in dedeâ— nor that Tyndale coulde not haue harde any man in Hierusalem at that tyme that coulde haue told hym that tale proued his tale trew yet shal Tindale neuer be able to wâ—â—hstand it but that yf it had ben so answered and so proued he had ben than well and wyth good reason satysfyed Agaynste whyche yf he hadde not rebelled but endeuored hym selfe for hys owne â—â—rte to be plyable to the trouth god sholde haue wrougâ—t wyth hym into the full consent and bylyefe therof Now saye I than that syth that aâ—swere yf 〈◊〉 myghte haue bene proued trewe sholde of reason ought â—o hâ—ue contented Tyndale at that tyme in HierusaleÌ„ concernyng the chyrch of the Iewys he shall neuer auoyde it here but that in the knowen catholyke chyrche of Chryste though we leue of the promyses of god made vnto thys chyrche by whyche promises it appereth clerely that he wyll nâ—ueâ— suffer it to come to suche a confuâ—yon or dyfâ—ycultye yeâ— yf it it dyd and were in that poynt lyke â—nto the chyrch that the Iewys had agaynste the commyâ—ge of Chryste infected by many false folke wyth false doctryne and the scrypture adulterate and viâ—iate wyth false gloses and wronge exposycyons and that they whyche so hadde marred all were crepte vp in to the place of Chryste and hys apostles and were waxen a greate deale the more parte of those that had the authoryte in theyr handes and therby had mysse ledde the people bothe in to wronge bylyefe and wronge wayes of lyuynge makyng them to wene that they dyd well wheÌ„ they dyd nought yf it were I saye comen in the catholyke chyrch euyn vnto this poynt whyche thynge god kepyng hys promyses afore remeÌ„bred were more then twyse impossible to happen yet yf it so were in dede as Tyndale lyeth and falsely sayeth it is yet vnto folke that longe to know the trouth it could nat be but perceyued easyly whiche doctrine were the troethe that is to wyt whyther theyrs that thus were crepte vp and had falsely taught or elles suche trew men as wold rebuke and reproue them and teche the people the contrary and constre the scripture otherwyse wherby shuld it be perceyued wyll sum man say surelyâ— well and playnely by this way God hathe sythe the dethe of Christe and his apostles styred vp in his knoweÌ„ catholique chyrche I dare well say many mo than an hundred prophetes whom he hath with moo than a thousande myracles declared to be his messangers Now of these holy doctours and prophetes we haue the bookes of euery age sum frome the dethe of Christes apostles euyn vnto our owne tyme. Now myght it than by theyr bokes be perceyuyd that these folke now crept vp as Tyndale sayeth by succession into the place and sete of Christ and his apostles as the scrybes and pharyseys were at Christes cummynge crepte vp into the sete of Moyses dyd in doctrine exposicion of scripture agree with those olde holy doctours and prophetes of euery age and tyme or els contempned and contraryed themâ— and in fayth and lyuynge began a new dyuerse contrary doctrine of theyr owne in thynges necessary to saluacion or peryllouse toward dampnacion And than yf they so dyd and that there cam other that wolde call men home from theyr euyll doctryne and from theyr false exposicions of scripture wherevpon the false doctrine dependeth vnto the olde doctryne and olde trew declaracion of scripture in whiche those old holy doctours and as saynt Paule sayth prophetes vpon scripture dyd consent agree by this marke I say myght it be perceyued knowen whither parte were the trewe whither parte were the false Let vs now thaÌ„ settyng for y e whyle all other markes asyde of whiche there are very many let vs I say consyder but this marke alone for eueÌ„ this
dede then vnto the pore lyuynge sayntes Lo good reder here knoweth Tyndale well ynough that he lyeth to make the two thynge seme lyke and yet he maketh them not lyke For well ye wote there is no lytle dyfference betwene the thynge that Tyndale sayth here the chyrche teacheth to be more merytoryouse to ofâ—re to god then to gyue to a pore man and the thynge that he sayth the pharysyes taughte that yt was more merytoryouse to offre vnto god then helpe his father with y â— money were he in neuer so great nede For I am not lyke bouÌ„den to helpe euery straunger y t is a porem tanhat is say in some pouerty as to helpe myne owne father that were im extreme necessyte And yet as vnlyke as they be these two thynges doth Tyndale here lyken to gether Myght he not here lyken almoste as well Powles steple to a dagger sheth And yet in this lykenynge as vnlyke as they be he letteth not a lytle to lye to lynke them so nere to gether For I wysse Tyndale knowâ—th very well that no man teacheth so precysely as he reherseth y t yt is better to offre to god and hys holy sayntes dede then vnto the pore lyuyng saynts But the doctryne of the chyrch is as hym self can tell full well yf he lysted not to lye that whych of those two thynges offrynge or geuynge in almoyse is for the tyme more merytoryouse dependeth vppon the cyrcumstaunces of the dede the persons at the tyme. For yt were not alwaye trew to saye that I muste helpe my father byfore a straunger nor my selfe byfore a nother man For my father may percase haue some nede and my selfe both and yet not so myche but that I were bounden for the tyme to geue fro my selfe yet not to my father but for the tyme to some straunger whome I neuer knewe byfore his necessyte may be suche And therfore the catholyque chyrche teacheth that both to gyue almoyse is good and to offer is good and he that hath wherwyth to do both ought to do the tone and doth well to do the tother But where the tone ys better and where the tother is to be consydred by hym that doth yt vppon the tyme and persons and many other cyrcumstaunce mo then well can be compreheÌ„dyd and gyuen men in wrytyng vnder any suche certayne rules but that some tyme they may fayle But reason ruled by charyte and deuocyon shall not nede to fere but they shall do bothe full well and perceyue suffycyeÌ„tly where the tone is to be done and where the tother yf they folowe not these heretyques in contempnynge the tone The chyrch sayth as saynt Poule sayth that vyrginyte is better then y â— worke of wedloke yet meneth neyther the chyrche nor saynt Poule that yt so were yf there were but one man wyth one woman left a lyue in all y â— who le world Saynt Mary Magdaleyn was more alowed of Cryst foâ— bestowyng that costely oyntement vppon his hedde so fully and so frely that she brake the glasse and all to sâ—ewe that she wolde none spare for her selfe then yf she had sold yt as Iudas wolde haue had yt and geuen the money to pore men And yet dyd she yt but to do hym pleasure wyth as men dyd then vnto gestes to make them chere with all as folke do now caste damaske water and burne plesauÌ„t perfumes All be yt vnware to her selfe se dyd in dede worke a mystery therin that dyd betokeÌ„ his beryeng But god as I say the thaÌ„ke y t he gaue her he gaue her not for y e mystery wherupoÌ„ she thought not but for her deuout mynde y â— she bare towarde hym And yet peraduenture neyther she wold nor god wolde she sholde haue bestowed yt so in case yt hadde happened that there had lyen a man so lyke that wtyhout y t oyntement he shold haue dyed that she had well wyste or thought that she might by that oyntement saue his lyfe and by nothypge ellys But all be yt there were pore men very many whom she myght haue refreshed well wyste there were so yet syth she neyther knewe theyr nede for so great that requyred so sodayne helpe nor other mennys deuocyon for so small but that they myghte be holpen by other folke she neyther thought her self bouÌ„den nor no more she was in dede to folowe the counsayle of Iudas in geuynge the pryce to pore men rather then in wytnesse and testymonye of her good wyll and deuocyon te spende yt out in pleasure vppon the blessed body of Cryste And yet was he not rauyshed wyth the odour of her oyntemeÌ„t but wyth y â— delyte of her deuocyon in whych he delyteth yet when any man doth the lyke And therfore I say that though the pharysyes taughte wronge whome saynte IohnÌ„ reproued and our sauyoure hym selle also in that they taught that yt was better to offre the money to god then honoure and helpe theyr father and mother therwyth were theyr nede neuer so great yet the chyrche teacheth ryghte For yt teacheth playne the coÌ„trarye therof and sayeth that the pharysees taughte false and teacheth onely that to offre to god and his sayntes is well done and that to helpe pore men and gyue almoyse muste nedes be done And when and in what case the tone is more merytoryouse then the tother the chyrche teached many good and resonable rules and yet can no man well tell so many but that as I sayde some tyme the reason of the man ruled wyth charyte and deuocyoÌ„ that coÌ„meth and worketh wyth grace muste be his guyde therin But now these new men begyn to geue a certayn rule that as they say shall put vs quyte out of all doute when we shall do the tone and wheÌ„ the tother For therin lo thus they say Offrynge say they to god or to sayntes and lyke wyse byeldynge of chyrches byenge of copes bokes surplyce and chalyce be thynges voluntarye to the doynge wherof no commaundement of god constrayneth the. But as for geuynge of almoyse is a thynge necessary wherunto god by his own biddyng byndeth the. And therfore fyrst euermore geue thy money to the pore men that nede yt as longe as there be any And then lo wheÌ„ there be no mo pore men left y â— ye may bestowe youre money vppon go to then good crystyens in goddes name and bestow the remanauÌ„t wheron ye wyll euen vppon pylgremages yf ye lyst lo and vppon offrynges and byeldynge of chyrches and byeng of bokes and copes and crosses and shyppes and sensers hardely to for me And therfore saye not now y t we say that the voluÌ„tary thynges be not lawfull For we say no more but y e the necessary thynges must nedes be done fyrste and I wysse good crystyens ye wote well your selâ—e that is very good reason Now to th ende that ye may good reders the better perceyue whyle they teache in thys maner what
the cytye and sayde come and se a man that hath tolde all that euer I dyd is he not Cryste and many of the Samarytanes byleued bycause of the saynge of the woman how that he had told her all that euer she dyd and went oute vnto hym and desyred hym to come in whych fayth was but an opynyon and no fayth that could haue lasted or haue brought out frute but when they haâ—de herde Cryste the spyryte wrought and made them fele Wheruppon they came vnto the woman and sayde we byleue not nowe bycause of thy saynge but bycausâ— we haue harde oure selfes and knowe that he is Chryste the sauyour of the worlde For Chrystys preachynge was wyth power and spyryte that maketh a man fele and knowe and worke to and not as the scrybes and pharysyes preached and as cures make a man redy to câ—st his gorge to heare them raue and rage as madde men And therfore sayth the scrypture cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh â—elshe his arme that is to say his strength Anâ— euen so cursed is he that hath no nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so say And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause the pope so sayth and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde More Lo good crysten reders here haue I geuen you hys whole tale to gether to the ende of his whole chapyter whyche houerly loked on and redde ouer plesauntly with hym that lyketh hyt ere euer he loke on yt for fauoure of the secte can not but seme very gay But who so consyder yt aduyse yt well he shall fynde not one pyece of treuthe therin farther then I haue all redy shewed you in the end of hys fyrste solucyon where I touched in few wordes scant spendynge foure lynys therin that y â— mynde of saynâ— Austayn was and is I wene of all good men besydes that when we byleue the chyrche eyther in knowynge whyche is the scrypture or in the trewe sense and ryghte vnderstandynge of the scrypture god both preuenteth vs in geuyng vs the occasyon and wurketh wyth vs and we wyth hym into the perfytynge of our consent and bylyefe as he doth towarde the perfayt accomplysshement of euery thynge wherby we walke towarde our saluacyon towarde whyche we can no thynge do wythout hym as hym selfe sayth wythoute me nothynge can you do so that the inwarde secrete cause wurkynge wyth vs is hym selfe But ordynaryly god vseth outwarde meanys and instrumentes such as euery man may sumwhat by the same gyue a reason and cause of hys owne faythe to an other man and therby tell hym that for the same causes the man to whome he telleth theym sholde of good reason folowe and byleue a lyke And in these meanes lyke as god vseth the bodyly senses whyche we call the fyue wyttes as wayes and meanes towarde that vnderstandynge whyche men attayne by reason though there be somtyme bytwene the reason and the bodyly senses some debate and variaunce so dothe he vse bothe the seruyse of the bodyly senses and of the reason of the soule towarde the seruyse of the fayth addynge therwyth bycause it is a thyyge farre aboue the nature of them bothe hys owne supernaturall ayde and helpe of hys supernall grace to preuent vs wyth occasyons and mocyons of bylyefe and walkynge on wyth vs excepte we leue of our selfe to the perfaytynge of bylyefe in our hartes and helpynge vs to inclyne oure myndes into the credence of those outwarde causes and motyues whyche wythout hys helpe in thynges ordeyned of god for the waye to heuynwarde we sholde not haue done nor of goddes ordynary course we sholde not haue byleued wythout some such outwarde sensyble causes neyther as is prechynge and myracles and some suche other And therfore as I before shewed you saynte Austayne all be it that without helpe of god he byleued not the catholyke chyrche nor wythout helpe of god knewe and byleued the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche yet he alledged vnto those heretykes the Manichays not that inwarde cause the secrete helpe of god that wroughte wyth hys wyll and hys reason in geuynge credence to those outwarde causes for whyche he sayth that he byleued the chyrche for therin myghte the Manicheys fayne theym selfe hys matchys say that the were inspyred and that they felte theyr inspyracyon in theyr hartes so felyngly that therby they perceyued that Manicheus theyr archeretyke was the very apostle of Cryst and that saynt Austayne eyther had no suche felynge or ellys a false felynge and was begyled And therfore as I saye saynt Austayne layed them not that inwarde cause but the outwarde causes of hys byleuynge the chyrche whyche were so good and effectuall that the heretykes neyther coulde nor neuer can be able to brynge the lyke for them selfe And then layeth he the same chyrch by those outwarde reasons so proued trewe for the outwarde open cause of the knowlege and bylyefe of the very scrypture and then doth the scrypture beynge by that outwarde cause that is to wytte by the chyrche well perceyued and knowen for the word of god bere wytnesse also is an other outward cause of the more sure and perfayte knowlege that the knowen catholyke chyrche is the very trewe chyrch of Cryst here in erth that all other are vtterly fayned false bothe by the manyfolde textes of the scryptute expressely declaryng it as saiÌ„t Austayn sheweth also for that very reason sheweth that god gyuynge the gyfte of knowlege which is his trew scrypture to a chyrch vnto none but one or by that one wolde neuer gyue that specyall goostely gyfte and prerogatyue vnto any false chyrche and than byd the trew chyrche go lerne the trouth of the false Now good chrysten readers thys waye went saynt Austayne wyth suche outwarde causes as myghte of reason lede the reader wyth hym But now cometh Tyndale and seynge that he can not auoyde the reason of saynt Austayn neyther wyth samples of saynte IohnÌ„ and the pharyseys whyche he broughte in dysguysed of dyuers fasshyons to make one answere seme twayne nor wyth false glosynge of saynt Austaynes wordes wherin ye se Tyndale proued playne false he cometh now and confesseth that same outwarde cause of fayth vnto the scrypture grauntyng that hym selfe and euery man ellys knoweth it and byleueth it fyrst thorow the catholyke chyrch But then flyeth he forth frome the fayth of the chyrche vnto hys felynge fayth by which he now knoweth byleueth y â— scrypture as he sayth and no lenger by the chyrche And â—herin he playeth by hys felynge fayth as hys felowes do by theyr remembraunce For yf any heretyke be taken and examyned vpon his oth of any maner thynge whych he wyll not confesse for hope that it can not be proued nor dare well deny it for fere that it wylbe proued as whyther he sayd such a thynge
or sawe suche a man he runneth strayt to hys remembraunce and sayth he sayd it not or saw hym not to hys remembraunce though it were in leâ—se then halfe an howre afore For therin he seeth hym selfe saufe For though the whole towne sawe them togyther and herde hym speke it yet whyche of all them can proue whyther he remember it styll or haue forgote it were it neuer so late And so playeth Tyndale now beynge fayne to graunte all that he hath denyed he flyeth lyke rede Raynarde the foxe for hys saufegarde into his malepardus of his felyng fayth in whyche though he haue nothynge to proue it yet the Raynarde trusteth to lye saufe bycause he thynketh no man can fynde hym out For who can folow hym thyder to make any tryall what maner fayth hym selfe feleth in hys owne harte But yet good reders we shall so sette aboute hym and then sette in suche terryers to hym that we shall I truste eyther course hym abrode or make hym euyll reste within For lette vs now resorte agayn vnto the gaye gloryous processe of Tyndalys holy dystynccyon And where as in the begynnynge therof he calleth the hystorycall fayth a creâ—ence gyuen to a story tolde hym by men and that such fayth and credence hangeth vppon the trouth and honesty of the teller or of the comen fame and consent of many as yf a man tell hym that the Turke hadde wonne a cytye and that therfore yf there come an other that semeth more honeste or that hath better persuasyons than he thynketh immedyately that the fyrste man lyeth and so he loseth hys fayth agayne If ye consyder well good chrysten readers ye shall fynde that parte of hys dystynccyon that is to wytte the tone halfe of all to gyther is suche a tale as tyll he proue it better shall neuer serue hym here For all be it that in wordely thynges thys tale be trew yet in maters of faythe whyche faythe is the fyrste gate whereby we entre oure iournaye the ryghte waye toward god we canne neuer come at it wythout the helpe of god nor how probable a tale so euer be tolde vs neuer shall we byleue it wythout hys holy hande inwardly set on vs and ledyng vs therin to whych is euer redy in all such thynges both to preuent vs and to goo forth wyth the towardnesse of our owne wyll not frowardly resystynge but applyable vnto hys mocyon And thys order to be trewe Cryste wytnesseth where he sayth No man can come to me but if my father draw hym And saynt Poule sayenge we be not suffycyent of our self to thynke any good thynge as of our selfe And therfore god as I sayde preuenteth vs in the begynnynge goeth forth wyth vs all the waye wythout whom we coulde do nothynge by fayth towarde god nor â—y the outwarde occasyon of fayth toward the inwarde consent therof syth no man can as saynt Poule sayth saye our lorde Iesus but in spyryte And that god is euer redy but yf we wyllyngly wythdraw hym selfe sheweth where he sayth I stonde at the dore and knocke And that god helpeth vs forward not without our own coÌ„formable wyll appereth playn by clere textes of scrypture I wene mo then an huÌ„dred As where he sayth wo be thou Capharnaum for yf in Tyrus Sidon had ben wrought the myracles that haue bene wroughte in the they wolde longe a goo haue done penaunce in asshes and shyrtes of here And also where he sayd vnto HierusaleÌ„ in this wyse Hierusalem Hierusalem how often wold I haue gathered thy children togyther as the henne gathereth togyther her chykens thou woldest not And where he byddeth saynte Thomas of Inde wyll not thou be vnbyleuynge but byleuynge And where he blameth hys dyscyples for not byleuynge those that had seen hym rysen from deth agayne And therfore is it in my mynde false that Tyndale sayth that the hystorycall fayth that is to saye the fayth acquysyte and gotten by gyuynge credence to the reporte and tellynge dothe in the thynges of the chrysten fayth depende vppon the trouth and honesty of menne or comen fame alone For all be it that such thynges be the outwarde occasyons by meane wherof a man cometh therto yet is there euer more in euery such fayth the inwarde cause mouynge our wyll towarde the consent therof the speâ—yall ayde and helpe of the great goodnesse of god wythout whyche oute wyll had neuer walked towarde it And lykewyse as not the mannys tale at oure eare with oute god workynge wythin bryngeth vs into the bylyefe For as saynt Auâ—tayn sayth In vayne sowneth at y e eare the word but yf god worke in the herte eueÌ„ so not y e maÌ„nis tale alone kepeth y e faith in vs but as an outward mocyon yt kepeth as it brought but pryncypally kepeth vs therin he that pryncypally brought vs therto that is the inward workynge of goddes owne holy spyryte And thus ye se that this pyece of Tindales tale is but a bare brokeÌ„ patche Nowe the tother parte wherein he sayeth that yf there come a more honeste man or one that hath better persuasyons to the coÌ„trary that then he that had the faith vppon the fyrste mannys tellynge loseth yt agayne vpon the seconde man tellynge the coÌ„trary I say y t this patche is double noughte For syth as I sayd byfore he came to the fayth by two mocyons the pryncypall god workynge wythin and the secondary the occasyons outwardely geuyn also by god lyke as the good wyll workynge wyth god assented vnto yt so shall neuer any mannys tale nâ—r the tale of a thousande agaynste one ouermayster that inwarde mocyon of god as long as the wyll of the man will contynue styll with god in cleuynge to the fayth as yt dyd in folowynge hym in the commynge to yt Aud therefore some man that hath vppon ryghte small occasyon turned to the fayth and therfore wyth the myche more meryte as Cryste sayde Bleâ—sed be they that haue byleued and haue not seen could neuer wyth any maner occasyon be pulled from yt agayne bycause of theyr good wyll stykkyng styll to the inwarde cause of theyr fayth For yf a man may as in dede he may so obstynately set his wyll vnto the worse syde that no persuasyon of good reason can remoue hym to the better how mych it is more trew that when a man hath coupled his wyll wyth god by inclynynge cleuynge vnto grace there can none euyll persuasyon of counterfeted reason be able to plukkâ— hym from yt tyll the frowardnesse of his wyll do wyllyngly fall therfro as the towardnes of his wyll dyd wyllyngly cleue therto and as yt agayne maye when yt is fallen from yt wyth helpe of grace wyllyngly returne therto Now yf Tyndale call this a felyng fayth yet were his dystinccyon then clene vaynyshed and gone For then were euery historycall fayth in maters in the fayth a felyng faith also And therby
that draweth draweth euen from the begynnynge and casteth downe the cord of his grace to take holde vpon wheruppon who so taketh hold and holdeth styll is by god drawen vnto god and helpeth hym selfe to be drawen For as saynt Poule sayth we helpe forth wyth god I say also that after that god hath wrought wyth mannys wyll and called hym by preuencyon of grace at the yeres of dyscrecyon eyther from Iudaisme or fro gentylyty and fyndynge no lette in the man hath by baptysme fully infounded the fayth and wyth hope and cheryte put hym in state of grace whych is all the wrytyng in the harte that euer I herde of this man hauynge nowe not fayth alone but hope and cheryte to and standynge in suche state of grace that yf he then so deceaced his soule sholde forthe with flye in to blysse byfore his body were colde yet when he doth after that infusyon of fayth and grace any thefte or auowtry he leseth charyte alway by custome of synne somtyme hope to and leueth but bare fayth that is to say bylyefe alone and somtyme by false doctrine of heretykes leseth some of that to Aud yet is fayth alone good to be kepte ye and the very peyces and fragmentes of the fayth also for they be meanes by whyche a man maye the more easely come to the remanaunt that he hath loste or lakketh And they helpe wyth goddes forther helpe to kepe a man from some synne though they kepe hym not from all For some man that falleth to thefte somtyme remembereth yet his baptyme and beynge by the deuyll entyced to kyll the man maketh a crosse vppon his brest prayeth Crist kepe hym from it in aduowtry lyke wyse And god in that good mynde preueÌ„teth the man by grace worketh wyth hys wyll in kepynge hym therefro as he gaue hym good thoughtes and offred hym his grace yf he wold haue taken holde therof to kepe hym 〈◊〉 the tother to And I doute not but yf god left hym in the â—one as he lâ—â—te god in the tother the deuyll that wyth his 〈◊〉 brought his wyll to thefte and aduowtry wolde â—rynge hym to manslaughter also and make hym kyll and murther the tone man for his money the tother man for his wyfe And thus ye se that of Tyndales ryall tale there is not one worde yet proued trew sauynge where he sayeth that all which come of Abrahams seed are nor Abrahams chyldren all but they only that folowe the fayth of Abraham For I wyll graunt hym this and a great deale more so For I say farther that all be â—ot Abrahams chyldren that haue Abrahams fayth but if they haue his charyâ—e to and therby worke his workes For our sauyour sayth yf ye be the chyldren of Abraham worke ye the workes of Abraham But ye be sayth he the chyldren of the deuyll and after his desyres wyll ye do well wyll Tyndale yet say syth yt is so that M. More grauÌ„teth hym selfe y t though fayth alone be a very fayth and right and trew for so farre as it stretcheth yet bycause yt stretcheth not farre inough to saluacyon in that yt beynge but alone lakketh both hope and charyte wherfore doth mayster More speke so myche therof beyng as hym selfe confesseth but insuffycient and not rather let yt passe and exhorte euery man to my felyng fayth that is both suffycyent and also can neuer fayle As for the fyrste poynte the blame be theyrs that haue geuyn the occasyoÌ„ For men haue be fayn to speke so mych of fayth alone for the selâ—e same cause for whyche saynte Poule dyd speke therof and saynt Iamys both that is to wyt bycause these heretikes now folowed the false secte of some suche as were then in the apostles tyme teachynge that fayth alone was inough for saluacyon as Tyndales mayster Martyne Luther doth manyfestly and playne in his Babilonica where he sayeth expressely that a chrysten man can neuer be dampned yf he will byleue nor no synne can damne hym but only inâ—rudelyte that is to say lakke of bylyefe For as for all other â—ynnys what so euer they be fayth saith he if it eyther abyde styll or come agayn suppeth theym all vppe in a moment and that god hath no nede of mannys good workes but that he hath nede of oure fayth alone This maketh folke to speke of fayth alone and shewe by y e authorite of saynt Poule and saynt Iamys and many other places of holy scrypture that Tyndales mayster holy Luther lyeth But yet wyll Tyndale saye syth I do nowe speke of fayth that is felynge and worketh well and by reason of the felyng a can not but worke well what sholde mayster More eyle now to speke any more of the tother faith alone that for lakke of felynge worketh not consyderyâ—ge also that I bysyde the fayth that feleth and worketk well adde repentaunce also of all that men do amysse what fauâ— ther fore fyndeth he now or what wolde the man haue more Fyrste there ys yet cause to speke of fayth alone bycause Tyndale is not an heretyke alone but y t there be many mo besyde hym whyche yet saye styll as Luther dyd byfore Also there is cause bycause of Tyndale specyally which wolde glose Luthers olde heresye wyth these new wordes whych wyll in no wyse stande wyth whych he wold make the world to wene that in fayth alone he ment fayth hope and charyte and that yt coulde not be that he any other ment bycause there can be none other fayth but onely that alone y t hath both hope and charyte therwith and by thys bald glose that thre vertues be all one vertue and that one vertue were thre agaynst both reason and scripture wold he mokke vnlerned people and make them byleue that Luther ment well and that all other men were so madde that they coulde not vnderstande hym And therfore to make open this wyly foly of Tyndale is also a cause why that I speke so myche of fayth alone bysydes the necessyte of answerynge hym concernynge his worshyppefull euasyon of his owne felynge fayth on whych he hopeth that he maye be bold bycause no man can come into his brest to se what maner of felynge hym selfe feleth there But yet hath god of his great goodnes begyled hym made hym so madde in the brayne that he hath vttred hym selfe such thynges with his own peÌ„ne as our sauyour sayenge hym self y t the mouth speketh of the abuÌ„daunce or fulnesse of the herte muste nedes make euery man to fele euen at his fyngers ende that Tyndale in the botome of hys harte wyth his fulsome felynge fayth feleth a foule fylthy hepe of false sumblynge heresyes For yet is his fayth worse then fayth alone whyche he calleth the deuyls fayth and myne For as saynte Iamys sayth The deuyls do both byleue tremble also for drede but thou sayeth he to Tyndale and euery suche as Tyndale is that for his felyng fayth
a good lesson and a goodly gospell of this euangelycall doctour I wysse saynt Peter answered not Symon Magus so sore ye wote well But what syth there is no remedy wyth vs but that Tyndale wyll nedys dampne vs all in to Dymmynges daie yet lette vs beseche hym of hys comfortable counsayle for some other good felowes as haue bene by grace hytherto kepte and preserued frome suche vngodly coÌ„mynge into the fayth and haue so well resysted all credence of myracles and all mennes persuasyons that for any thynge that god coulde do by mene of men or myracles they stande yet clere aborde and byleue nothynge at all If some such good felowe wolde now beseche Tyndale to teache hym the meanes how he myghte gete hys felyng fayth what counsayle wold Tindale now gyue vnto hym wyll he byd hym repente hys vnbylyefeâ— yf he so byd hym the man wyll wene he mocketh hym For how canne he repente the not byleuynge of any artycle but yf he fyrste byleue that hys dutye is to byleue it and harde it is to coÌ„ceyue or imagyne that a man maye byleue that suche a poynte or suche a poynte euery mâ—n oughte to bylâ—ue but yf he fyrste byleue that poynt hym selfe And Tyndale hath also shewed vs that concernyng the byleuyng the electe can no thynge do at all tyll god make hym fyrste bothe for to se and fele and so forth and therfore when he telleth hym thys tale of bylyâ—f and then byddeth hym go and repente hys vnbylyefe byfore he tell hym how he maye fyrste come to the very felynge bylyefe the poore man maye well thynke that Tindale dâ—th but mocke hym what counsayle then wyll Tyndale gyue hym ferther wyll he tell hym that it is the lyberall fre gyfte of god and therfore aduyse hym to praye god to gyue it hym If Tyndale tell hym thus then the man callynge to mynde Tyndals formaâ—e tale that he hath wrytâ—n and taught that the wyll of man can no thynge wurke wyth god towarde god though it maye wurke wyth god towarde outwarde thynges and now thys prayour yf it lye not in hys wyll wherfore doth Tyndale aduyse hym to it And yf it lye in hys wyll yet syth by Tyndals tale it can no thynge do toward god and the turnynge of god to hym and hym to god For yf it coulde then could hys wyll do somwhat toward god whyche Tyndale doth expressely denye the pore man wyll wene that Tyndale doth yet but mocke More ouer syth Tyndale expressely mocketh all endeuoure of mannys wyll in subdewynge of hys reason into the seruyse of the fayth of Cryst and calleth it a betleblynd reason the man wyll soone se that Tyndale is hym selfe betleblynde yf he se not that it is then but a betleblynde counsayle to byd hym go pray therfore For well ye wote the selfe same mynde and eâ—tent of prayenge that god may make hym byleue is some endeuoure of hys owne wyll towarde the bylyefe And yet whenne Tyndale hath more ouer tolde vs yet more playnely that the man can by hys wyll no more do towarde the gettynge of the fayth then can the chylde in the begetynge of hys owne father and euery man well woteth that the chylde can not praye god to cause hys graundefather to bygete hys father thys man muste nedes perceyue that in byddynge hym to pray for the fayth Tyndale doth playnely mocke hym Fynally good faythfull reder I can not in good fayth perceyue what counsayle Tyndale can geue any man towarde saluacyon standyng his frantyke heresyes agaynst free wyll whyche as yt is in euery good and merytoryous worke preueÌ„ted by the goodnesse of god so doth yt in such as haue age and reason worke and walke on wyth god not in other thinges onely but with endeuour also toward fayth by credence geuynge bothe to myracles and good persuasyons of men whych thynges god hath here ordayned for the meanes towarde yt conuenyent for the state of this present lyfe and suffycyent for the iuste cause of damnacyon of all such as for lacke of theyr owne deuour and for frowardnes of theyr owne fre wyll do not vppon so suffycyent caases byleue syth that yf there lakked not endeuour vppon theyr owne parte the goodnes of god wolde haue assysted theym wyth his helpe to the perfeccyon and full infusyon of that grace in fayth hope and charite that but yf the wyll afterward fynally fall therfro shold bryng to the glorye from whyche they sholde neuer fall and towarde whych glory Tyndale standyng his heresy can as ye se bable he neuer so sayntly geue any man any couÌ„sayle forwarde but euen to syt styll and do nought and let god alone For as ye se playnely to this ende at last cometh all his holy heresy when yt is well examyned And therfore wolde not yet mayster More by glad to chaunge his fayth for Tyndales as faythlesse as false Tyndale calleth yt But now concludeth Tyndale all his coÌ„cclusyon thus Tyndale And hereby maye ye se that it is a playn and an euydeÌ„t coÌ„clusion as briâ—â—t as the sonne shinynge that the trouth of goddes worde dependeth not of 〈◊〉 treuth of the congregacyon More who euer sayde that yt dyd who was euer so madde to thynke that the trouth of goddes worde depended vppon the mouthes of any mortall men or any creature eyther in erthe or heuen but wythoute any outwarde dependens hath his solydyte substaunce and fastenes of and in yt self But the thynge that ys in questyon betwene vs ys not wherby Tondale knoweth and I also that goddes worde is trew But wherby he knoweth and I to whyche is the worde of god and bycause Tyndale and I be not agreed theruppon but I saye wryten and vnwryten and he but wryten onely I come nerer vnto hym therin aske hym how he knoweth whyche is the worde of god wryten that is to wyt whych is the very scrypture And theâ— say I that the certaynte of thys thynge euery man that ordynaryly hath yt coÌ„meth to yt by the catholyque chyrche And that I say trouth in this poynt I thynke that euery crysten man that knoweth which be the scrypturesâ— will for his owne part bere me weâ—nesse as holy saynt Austayn hath all redy downe for his parte in the wordes of his before remâ—mbred wryten agaynsâ— the Manycheis where he sayth I wold not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the chyrche moued me therto whyche sayenge of saynte Austayne ye se your selfe that Tyndale hath so falsely and yet for all that so â—ayntly glosed for an answere that they remayne styll vnanswered And therfore as for Tyndales coÌ„clusyon we wyll with good wyll graunte hym that yt is as clere as the sonne shynynge that the trewth of goddes wordes dependeth not vpon the trewth of the congregacyon But syth ye se good reders as clere as the sonne shyuynge that no man sayde the contrarye nor the questyon betwene vs was not whyther goddes worde were trewe bycause the chyrche
If he say y t he could not but byleue saint Poule bycause god wrought myracles for hym by the same reason muste he byleue the catholyke chyrche for as myche as god contynually in euery good crysten countrey worketh myracles in yt for the catholyque chyrche and wythdraweth his myracles from all chyrches of heretykes and therby declareth that he dothe those myracles not onely in yt but also for yt And also Tyndale knewe not that god by the mouth of saynte Poule sayde so but bycause that the chyrch taught hym that god dyd so If he saye yes he felt yt by the wrytynge of goddes owne fynger in his herte he muste consyder that I speke of the tyme before y t his hert was so holy that god lyked to wryte wyth his owne fynger therin For hym selfe sayth that the hystorycall fayth goth fyrste the felynge fayth cometh after Therefore at the leste wyse in that tyme why sholde he not as well byleue the chyrche when yt sayde This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd tell as when yt sayde This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd wryte And in lyke wyse for the bokes of the wryten wordes of scrypture of whyche these heretykes receyue suche as lyke them refuse such as they lyste syth y t in the begynnynge sauynge for the catholyke chyrche they neyther knew the tone nor the tother why sholde they not byleue the same chyrche as well in the tone as the tother And as concernynge the bokes of scrypture whych they they them selfe receyue syth the debate betwene the chyrch and these heretyques standeth not vppon the wordes but vppon the sentence yf Tyndale were a Turke borne bycause he layeth so often the Turkes for his parte agayâ—ste vs they wolde and well they myghte reken hym but for a proude fole yf he wold now begynne to constre them theyr Alcharon in great and necessary poyntes of theyr fayth agaynste the consente and agrement of all the olde exposytours of theyr owne and the bylyefe of all the people from the deth of Machomete vnto Tyndales byrth If Tyndale wold now refute myne obieccion of y â— Turkes and theyr Alcharon wyth obiectynge in lyke wyse agaynst me the Iewes and the olde testament whyche Crist and his apostles taught theym to constre contrary to theyr olde vnderstandynge fro Moses dayes to theyr owne and that the chyrch of Cryste doth euen the same styll and wyll therfore say that so maye hym selfe and his mayster Martyne and Huyskyn and Swinglius teache the chyrche of Cryste in lykewyse to constre the scrypture of the new testament in necessary poyntes of fayth contrary to the consent of all the olde exposytours and the comen fayth of all crysten nacyons syth the tyme of Cristes deth and his blessed apostles vnto our owne dayes as Crisâ—e and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche teache the Iewes to construe theyr own scrypture of the old testament that they had had and taught so longe before I answere Tyndale therunto lettynge passe other answeres for this time that Cryst and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche euer synnes haue proued and yet proue the authoryte of theyr doctryne to be aboue the Iewes in the constrewynge of theyr owne scryptures delyuered by Moses and the prophetes by that yt hath pleaseth god for the testyfycacyon therof to shewe by Cryste and his apostles and his catholyke chyrche contynually to this day many meruelouse myracles and wythdrawe theym all from the Iewes Nowe lette Tyndale and Luther and Huyskyn and Suynglius do the lyke agaynste the catholyque chyrche then let them come and teache yt to constre the scrypture of Cryste contrarye to all the olde But tyll they haue the myracles among them and the catholyque chyrche leseth theym yf Tyndale and hys fonde felowes wyll in the meane whyle go nowe aboute to teache the chyrche to constre the scrypture of Cryste contrary to the contynuall fayth fro the apostles days vnto theyr owne we may myche better call theÌ„ proude presumptuous folys then myght the Turkes for teachynge them a contrary construccyon of theyr Alcharon Besydes this his ensample of the Iewis wyll not helpe hym for a nother cause For the olde exposytours of they re scryptures bothe of Moses and of the prophetes were vppon the parte of Cryste and his apostles and consequently of the catholyque chyrche contynually agaynst the false scrybes and pharysyes and the false doctoures synnes in suche necessary poyntes as they and we vary for as appereth well by dyuers of theyr bokê whych be dayly brought forth and allegged by men at this day lerned in theyr own tonge and also by that substancyall well lerned man Lyre in hys exposycyon of the seconde psalme Now yf Tyndale Luther Huiskyn Suingliê° can say y t the old holy doctours expositours vpon the scrypture dyd euer expoune it so that by theyr exposycyon it myghte appere that the scrypture of Cryste appereth it for lawfull and not abhorreth it as a thynge abomynable that freres sholde wedde nonnes I wyll agre wyth Tyndale to gyue ouer all the mater And thus ye se good reders that as concernynge the scrypture which Tyndale here techeth his dyscyple to say that they alledge elder then any chyrche thys .xiiii. C. yere syth the debate and variaunce is not in the wordes wherin they and we bothe agre but in the senteÌ„ce wherin not onely the comen contynued fayth of all chrysten nacyoÌ„s but also all the olde holy doctours sayntes euer synnys the same scrypture wryteÌ„ agreeth with the catholike chyrch agaynst hym hys alledgyng of the scrypture is not worth a leke And therfore is he now dreuen in all that euer we vary for to leue both scrypture and all and when he aske wherfore he byleueth eyther thys or that fayne muste he be to holde hym onely to hys felynge fayth and as Tyndale for a shote ancre techeth hym say that he byleueth it onely bycause he feleth it wryten in hys harte wythout any reasonable outwarde cause wherfore he fyrste byleued it wyth a story fayth wherof as ye haue herde he can for hys heresyes proue vs none at all Then syth he is comen to that poynt that without any good outwarde cause he muste defende hys fayth by hys onely felynge may not the Turkes and the Iewes bothe whome he layeth so sore agaynst vs defende theyr faythe 's agaynste hym by the selfe sam And when he can no ferther saye but that he feleth his to be trew eche of theyrs false may not eche of them answere hym that they fele theyrs to be trewe and hys false And thus were gone the counsayle of saynt Peter that we sholde geue a reason of our hope to euery man that wyl aske vs wherfore we hope so And therfore leuynge saynt Peter hys way lette euery man folowe Tyndale and byleue what he lyste and saye he feleth it wryten in hys owne harte wyth goddes owne hande Men saye that he
holy spyryte vnto his chyrche to teache yt and lede yt into euery trouth and that he wolde neuer leue them comfortelesse nor lyke chyldren faderlesse but wolde hym selfe be wyth yt all the dayes vnto the ende of the woâ—â—de so farre forth that where so euer were so mych as two or thre of that chyrche not scatered out therof as saynte Cypryanâ— sayeth but beynge in yt and of yt gathered to gether in his name he was and wolde be hym selfe in the very myddes among them wolde fayle to assyste them wyth his holy spyâ—yt wheÌ„ they were assembled so many in suche maner where as eyther theyr dede and declaracyon muste nedes stande and be â—erme or ellys all runne at rouers and nothyng be certayn or sure I doute nothynge but that ys this had be thus proponed yt wolde haue ben there in that full couÌ„sayle agreed and ordered and decreed that the generall couÌ„sayles shold be after not of the whole nomber of all crysten people but of some suche conuenyent nomber as conuenyetly myghte assemble and the same though yt were not the whole catholyke chyrch in dede but as frere Barns saith only representatyue sholde yet haue the same authoryte and the same full credence geuen vnto yt as though there were a tyt all the whole crysten people And thus ye se now that both in Luthers heresyes Tyndales to Barns also touchyng the weddyng of freres nonnes and the authoryte of generall counsaylys and the proâ—e of the knowen catholyke chyrche and the reprofe of theyr catholyke chyrch vnknowen I haue euyn wyth this one example of all the whole chysten people assembled at a generall counsayle playnely confuted them all But now yf frere Barns wyl here say that wyth all this ymagynacyon of suche an whole assemble at a generall couÌ„sayle I can nothyng proue bycause yt is but an imagynacyon that neuer coulde come to passe I answere hym that yf he so say he shall speke very vnlernedly For be the thynge neuer so false and impossyble to yet may it be putte and admytted to consyder therby what wold folow or not folow theruppon yf yt were both possyble and trew or els made that great wyse and well lerned man Boetius a very symple and an vnwyse argument what time to proue that the fredome of mannes wyll is nothing restrayned nor the fynall effecte of thynges here coÌ„tingent or happenyng any thynge precysely bouÌ„den to y e tone parte or to the tother by the prescyence and forsyght of god he dyd put the case that god hadde not of any suche thynge to come any forsyght at all And then dyd theruppon argue thus in effecte that all were it so y â— god dyd not foresee whether such a maÌ„ shold in such a momeÌ„t or vndyuisyble tyme syt or not syt yet shold that man in that moment do but the tone of those twayne whyther of the twayne hym selfe then wolde and shold not in that one tyme vndyuysyble do the both twayn both syt not syt wherof the tone were contradyctory playne repugnauÌ„t to the tother And that therby may euery man playnly perceyue that the prescyence of god putteth no necessyte in thynges of theyr nature conuenyent vnto fre wyll of man who so consyder well this argument of his and many suche other lyke made by many ryght excellent wyse well lerned men shall eyther esteme them all for folys or ellys confesse that vppon frere Barons reason grouÌ„ded vppon the dyfference betwene the whole catholyke chyrch in dede and the generall counsayle that is not the whole chyrche but by way of representacyon I may well and orderly put the case and suppose that the whole people were at the generall counsayle And then in cause yt so were yf then my purpose wolde folowe and frere Barons purpose fayle as ye se playnely yt wolde then is my parte as well proued and his as well confuted as yf the matter were not onely for argumeÌ„t supposed but were so comen to passe so done in very dede And so this ensample of myne may for all the impossybilyte therof be a good grouÌ„de of profe agaynst all these felowes in theyr false and faynt framed maters coÌ„cernynge the mayntenaunce of theyr false heresyes agaynste all the knowen catholyke chyrche by theyr owne ymagynacyon of a secrete scatered vnknowen chyrche and yet eche of them a dyuerse chyrche not one agreynge wyth a nothâ—r Now hath frere Barons therfore none other shyft that I can se but to say that in that generall counsayle whyche I haue put and supposed in saynt Gregoryes dayes the heresyes that I haue spoken of of Luther Tyndale hym selfe wolde not haue ben condempned but rather approued and allowed for good thynges and trew nor that generall counsayle then beynge suche as I haue put woldâ— neuer haue ordeyned that there sholde be any generall counsayle after of any fewer then all the whole chrysten people or yf there sholde yet wolde they not haue dâ—termyned that euer any suche generall counsayle gathered of any fewer then all to gether shold haue the same authoryte or crâ—deÌ„ce that yt sholde haue yf the counsayle were assembled of all If frere Barons or any of all his felowes be so bold as to tell vs this then may they boldely bere vs in hand what so euer they wyll in this worlde For this maye euery man well wyt that they wold determine when they were comen to gether as they all knew to be good and trew whyle they were a sundre But then are we very sure wherof I thynke neyther Barns nor Tyndale nor Luther neyther can for sham say the coÌ„trary but y â— vntyll wythin this twenty yere passed laste all the worlde good and badde crysten and hethen wolâ— haue had in abomynacyon that any man vowynge chastyte sholde haue wedded a nunne when he lyste vpon his owne sensuall frantyque fantesy breke his promyse made vnto god And therfore I dare be bold and as I truste with the consent and agrement of euery good maÌ„nys conscyence to afferme in this mater a great deale farther agaynste them then I sayde byfore For I dare well saye not onely that they shold haue ben condemned by that one generall couÌ„sayle that I haue put as gethered in some one yere of saynt Gregoryes papacy but also yf there had bâ—e the lyke gadered in euery yere of his yeâ—e and in euery yere synnes his tyme tyll wythin this twenty tyme last passed and in euery yere before vnto the very apostlâ—s tyme and euery yere in theyr tyme to and in euery yere synnes Cryst was borne and euery yere synne the world was fyrst replenyshed well wyth peple that same shamefull sensuall bestely secte wolde haue ben condemned for abomynable And also that the dew assemble of certayne partes representynge the whole body sholde haue the full authoryte of the whole body is a thynge by the comen assent and experyence of the whole worlde crysten