Selected quad for the lemma: reason_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
reason_n	image_n	worship_n	worship_v	2,495	5	9.2639	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A72174	A briefe discourse of certaine points of the religion which is among the commõ sort of Christians, which may bee termed the countrie diuinitie with a manifest confutation of the same, after the order of a dialogue / compiled by George Gifforde.	Gifford, George, d. 1620.	1582 (1582)	STC 11846; ESTC S5348	72,465	187

the lawe careth not for Christe This is the cause why Christ sayeth The whole neede not the Phisition but the sicke I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentaunce Therefore to such as haue wounded consciences the Gospel is sweete and comfortable and Christe in the latter ende of the eleuenth Chapter of S. Matthew calleth such vnto him saying Come vnto mee all yee which trauell and bee heauie loden and I will refreshe yee But such as haue no feeling of their sinnes or whiche are blinded and hardened yee shall perceiue small ioye and delight in them for to heare the worde preached they had rather be at Bearebayting Ath. Ye say well I would I coulde remember your wordes Zelot There be many which will seeme to be desirous for to learne but a man shall see they continue euen as carelesse as beefore But I will goe on with this matter The Scripture saith that a sorowfull spirite is a sacrifice to God and that God doeth not despise the humble and contrite heart But men are afraide to be brought to the knoweledge and feeling of their sinnes for feare as they say least they shoulde be driuen into dispaire as though that were a safe protection for them for a time to be in a senselesse securitie and as though they were in the better case because they make no conscience of their sinnes Whereas indeede those whiche are pricked and wounded with their sinnes are in the way to repentance when the other are farre off Ath. I coulde like your wor●es the better but that ye would haue men not to trust to their fayth is it not good to beleeue well Zelot There is nothing good in men vnlesse they beleeue well and wee can not truste too muche vnto sayth but you doe not vnderstande what faith is Tell me this doth faith beleeue according as God setteth downe and speaketh in his worde or doth it beleeue contrary to that which God vttereth Ath. It doeth not beleeue contrarye too that which God vttereth Zelot Let vs see then when God setteth downe and sheweth which are the works of the flesh and threatneth damnation vnto all those which walke in them when God setteth downe that the de●pisers of his word shalbe condemned and yet men which are defiled with the filthinesse of the fleshe and walke after their corrupt lustes do boldely bragge that they beleeue to be saued setting naught by Gods worde say they trust in God is this faith God affirmeth one thing and yet they beleeue the contrary but see the blindnesse of men now a dayes when they heare vaine and brutish men boast of their faith yee doe well say they to haue a good beliefe when as in deede it is no more but a proud presumption wherewith God is highly displeased because by it they woulde make him a Lyar. When the sonne of man commeth shall he finde fayth in earth If this be faith he shall finde great plentie of it euery where For the Idolater the swearer the drunkard the proude the Adulterer are as full of faith as they can be thrust For euery one of these doeth bragge that hee hath as good a faith to God as he whiche is the most holy of all Ath. These may repent and bee saue● or else God for bid Zelot I doe not speake what God is able to doe in calling as hee doeth call some such vnto repentaunce but what they haue in them presently But I will see a little further howe great skill you haue in the law of God because ye neede so litle preaching What say ye vnto the second cōmandement is it lawful for a man to worship idol● Ath. I thanke God I do not worship any for that is ●●atly forbidden Zelot What say ye for the making of any image or picture of god do ye thinke that is 〈…〉 Ath. For making it is no matter so that a man haue no confidenee in them Zelot Howe do ye then vnderstande the wordes of the commaundement which say Thou sha●● not make to thy selfe any grauen image c. Ath. He●●aneth that wée shoulde not make anye gra●en Image 〈…〉 worship it Zelot That is your owne addition for there is no suche exception expressed neyther can the order of the commaundement beare it for he doth not say Thou shalt not make to the intent to worship but thou shalt neither make not worship Ath. If yee take it so then why are Paynter allowed to make any picture how is it lawfull to haue the image of the Prince in coyne Zelot I will shewe yee your errour you doe not vnderstande that the lawe was deuided into two Tables and that in the first Table which hath 4. commaundementes there is nothing commaunded or forbidden but that which respecteth immediatly the woorshippe and honour of God hee medleth not with any ciuill or pollitike matter hee doth absolutely forbid to make as I may 〈…〉 it any diuine image any similitude for to represent God or to bee like him because as the scripture sheweth there can no likenesse or similitude be made of God For he ●● spirite of glorie infinite incomprehensible Which dwelleth in light which none canne come vnto and therefore ye may reade in the Epistle to the Rom. cap. 1. how horrible a sin it was to set vp any image or liknesse of God therfore the pictures of the trinitie and suche like are very abhominable But to let this passe what say ye for the worshipping of thē whether is it idolatrie or not if a man meane to woorship God by the image and not the image it selfe Ath. How can that be idolatrie when a man 〈…〉 worshippe none but God hee knoweth that the image cannot helpe him Zelot Then your meaning is that vnlesse a man do either worship the very image it selfe or else some false God in the image that it is no idolatrie Ath. I see no reason to the contrarye and I thanke GOD I neuer was so ●o● lis●● as to take a blocke or a stone for to bee God Zelot Then yee thinke your selfe cle●t● in this commaundement yee were neuer any idolater ye neuer kneeled or played 〈…〉 any idoll Ath. I haue kneeled before them and prayed before them but I neuer tooke them to be God neither did I pray vnto any saue vnto the Lord God I trust God will 〈…〉 charge me to b●e an idolater Zelot All you Athiestes which haue no knowledge of God are crammed as full of popishe drosse as ye can holde sauing that ye will not abide by it but goe with the lawes of princes afraide to loose the world because ye haue made the world your God Ath. I defie poperie as much as the best of ye all Zelot Euen as muche as yee defie the deuel whome yee serue dayly For ye vse popishe reasons to excuse your falling from God by Idolatrie and whereby a man may easily see that you ●re readye vnto it againe if time serued Ath. I see I muste let

yee alone to iudge what ye lust Zelot Nay yee vse the verie popishe reasons whereby they woulde prooue when we charge them with the breache of this commaundement that they doe not committe Idolatrie for say they when the Scripture doeth condemne that sinne it is meant of such as worship fained Gods as the heathen men did or such as do worship the image it selfe and take it for to be God But I will deale with ye by Gods woord What doe y●e suppose of the children of Israel when they came to Aaron to haue him make them Gods to goe before them when Moses taried so long in the moūt did they commit this great sinne of Idolatry Ath. They did commit idolatrie and the booke saith they were destroyed a great number of them Zelot What was their intent to worship any besides the true God Ath. That it was for they desired Aaron for to make them Gods Zelot What thinke ye they tooke Aaron for to be a man or a God Ath. That is a question in deede howe could they thinke him to be a God Zelot Did they thinke that Aaron being but a man had power for to make a God Ath. If they thought so they were but fooles Zelot And if you thinke they thought so ye shall prooue no great wise man For which way can a man perswade any that a man can make a God Or could they become more brutishe then a calfe for to beleeue that the car●●inges of golde turned into the similitude of a calfe were nowe become GOD No my friend it is very playne that they meant no more but an image of God and that which should represent God and put them in minde of him ye must not think they were so foolish although they were very foolish as the holy Ghost in one psal chargeth them that they turned their glory into the similitude of a calfe whiche eateth hay This then is plaine enough that they meant not for to worship the golden calfe it selfe but God in the Calfe Let vs see then did they meane for to worship any other by the calfe besides the true God Ath. It seemeth they did or els why should they say Gods for there is but one God Zelot Now ye are light vpon a very poore shift for we may as well say This is thy God O Israel or make vs a God to go before vs. For the Scripture it selfe in the Hebrew tongue although it teach that there is but one God yet speaketh of him in the plural number and saith Gods for excellencie or dignities sake as we see Princes here in the world when any of them speaketh he doth not say I but we not my person but our person For the phrase of the Scripture I might alleadge diuers places but you cannot vnderstande but in your owne tongue● neuerthelesse I will cite one it is in the Pla●● Elohim Shophetim Hu God is the iudge● but the words are Gods he is iudge Ath. Can you prooue that they meant to worship none but the true God Zelot It is easie to be proued both by the words of the people themselues when they say these be thy Gods O Israel which brought thee out of the lande of Egypt they meant not to change their GOD which brought them out from Pharao and ledde them through the red Sea neither did they thinke that the calfe which Aaron hadd made was he which deuided the Sea and drowned Pharao with his host but they tooke it for an image of that God and not of any feyned God and also by the woordes of Aaron when he sayth To morrowe shalbe a feast to Iehouah which name was neuer giuen to any but to the God of heauen at the least in those dayes the God of Israel had that name peculier vnto himselfe Then ye may see they worshipped not the Idole it selfe but God in the Idol they meant not to woorship any false God but the God of heauen which had deliuered them yet they did commit foule Idolatry and fell from God in so much that God was exceeding wrath with them Likewise in popery ye fell from God when ye bowed vnto images Ath. I hope not because I did not as they did they put a deuotion in it I meant no suche thinge but too bee obedient too a lawe Zelot Thē your meaning is that you kept your heart and conscience to God and went with your body but for fashion Ath. So long as I did keepe my conscience and heart to God I trust I did well enough Zelot Then you thinke God requireth not to be woorshipped but with your soule that you may serue the Diuell with your body Ye thinke also that God doth not require the outwarde confession of the mouth although it shoulde be with losse of life Ath. Yee doe not heare mee saye that wee may woorshippe the Diuell with our bodies Zelot You might heare your selfe say so but that ye say ye know not what for herein ye are ignoraunt that the woorshippe of images is the woorshippe of Diuels But I knowe there be many trimme wise heades which excuse the matter cleere themselues this way that they make no deuotion of the image or any other thing in the seruice of the Pope their conscience is free to GOD they serue and feare him what doth it hu●e them although they come outwardely with their bodie vnto the other what should they indanger themselues in so small a matter But will ye heare me what I can say out of Gods word against you and such fellowes Ath. I will heare you gladly I am not so wilfull as not to heare Zelot There were amongest the Corinthians diuers Christians which were perswaded that it was a matter indifferent to goe to the Idole temple and there to sit at the feast with the infidels whiche they made in honour of the Idole and to ●ate of the meate which had beene ●l●●● in sacrifice vnto the Idole They excused the exact in this wise that they had knowledge they vnderstood well that the Idole was nor GOD they went not of anie deuotion at all as touching the worship and seruice which the heathen men did vse but for friendship and neighbourhood sake ●●● they woulde not refuse to eate with suche as were th●●● kinsfolkes or acquaintance Nowe although S. Paule doth mildlie 〈…〉 with them and aunsweareth their reasons in the ● and ● chapter yet in the 10. Chap. hec dealeth very roughly with them setting before them the terrible example of Gods wrath vppon Idolaters and sheweth plainly that they were partakers of the table of diuels and that they drāk of the cup of diuels howsoeuer they thought they kept them selues and their consciēces free and vnpolluted Euen so I conclude that these worldlings which vse this shift now little deuotion soeuer they haue yet they haue no lesse then the Corinthians had in the Idole feast therefore when S. Paule affirmeth that they committed idolatrie it must needes