commits many disorders in adoring I mages y deny any such abuses that may reach to Idolatry and that the Authority which God has giuen to gouern vs and which wee are bond to obey is to take cognisance of that which when they do and prohibit Images wee will obey them in the mean tyme wee will giue you and your Church leaue to bark at the Moon But I must mind you of one mistake for to conclude this discourse Clemens Alexandrinus say you Hom. 7. I pray where haue yow seen or any other Homilies of Clemens Alexandrinus but this is not the mistake that I am to aduertise you of and in his Paraenesis speaking of Images in general declareth thus vvee haue no Images in the vvorld it is apparently forbidden to vs to exercyse that deceitfull art for it is vvritten c. you are mistaken Mr Sall and it cannot be but maliciously if you haue read his Paraenesis for he does not speake of Images in general but of Idols and such as were adored for Gods by the Gentiles to whom he directed that Paraenesis disswading them from Idolatry to the worship of one true God This is a matter of fact let the Reader peruse the Author himself and he will find that you are mistaken Hence wee conclude that Images of Christ and his saints cannot be called Idols For an Idol is a representation of a God that is not or a Deyty that has no being Images of Christ and the saints are representations of things that haue a real Being and to say that Christ his image is an Idol is to say that Christ who is the Prototype has no real Being wee conclude that the making of Images was neuer prohibited for God made man to his own Image commanded many Images to be made the Ark of the Testament the Brasen serpent and seueral others mentioned in Scripture and the Protestants them selues make many Images of Kings Queens and saints wee conclude that all worship to Images is not prohibited for wee worship the King particularly because he represents Gods Power and greatness nor all religious worship of Images is prohibited for wee giue a Religious worship to the Holy name of Iesus to the Bible beyond all other Books because it is the word of God and the Protestants to the Sacrament which they say is but a figure of Christs body Reason proues wee ought to worship the Images of Christ and his saints for it is apparent that there is such a relation and connexion betwixt the image and the thing wherof it is an image that the honor or deshonor don to the image for being a representation of the Prototype is esteemed to be don to the Prototype as when a man is by publick iustice burnt in Effigie his person is branded by the execution don in his image and no man but will think the iniury don to his picture an affront to his own person wee therefore must worship the Images of Christ and the saints because they are their representations and in this vndoubtedly wee worship them for the relation and connection that is betwixt the representation and thing represented this worship resteth not in the Image but passes to the Prototype for whose sake wee worship it And therefore it may be called a transitiue or relatiue worship The adoration of Latria due to God wee deny to Images and detest it as much as you and when wee declare our Doctrin and Faith so cleerly its malice and knowen preiudice to accuse vs of Idolatry which consists in adoring as God what is not God Inuoeation of Saints Mr Sall I hope does not forget that Maxim of the schooles argumentum multum probans nihil probat that an argument which proues more than the disputant pretends or can pretend to proue proues nothing but must be fallacious and doubtless any Christian will say that an argument that proues directly against the Scripture is but a Sophistry Let vs heare his argument against the Inuocation of Saints God sayes he Rom. 8.34 has appointed his son Iesus to make intercession for vs who is more compassionat better able and more willing than any Saint or Angel to helpe vs and his prayers are efficacious for sayeth he Io. 5.16 VVhatsoeuer vve ask the Heauenly Father in his name he vvill giue it vs. This argument proues directly against Scripture for it proues that wee must not ask the Saints on earth to pray for vs nay it proues wee must not pray for ourselues but remit all to Christ who knowes ourwants is more compassionat towards vs than the Saints on earth are nay than wee are of ourselues loues vs better than they loue vs or wee loue ourselues is better able and more willing to help vs than they are and than wee are ourselues on the other syde his prayers are more efficacious why then should wee ask the prayers of Saints on earth or pray for ourselues Yet Scripture commands vs to pray for ourselues and recommends vnto vs that wee should ask the prayer of our Brethren and the Protestant Church also does practice it Therefore this argument proues directly against the Scriprure and against the practice of the faithfull It s certain Christ loues vs better than the Saints or Angels do and is more able and willing but it is also certain that he loues the Saints of heauen better than he loues vs poore sinners on earth I know not what opinion Mr Sall may haue of himself and so what he would not do for vs on earth for our sakes wee may expect he may do it for the sake of those that he loues most which are the Saints and Angels in heauen For wee haue examples in Scripture of some Blessings conferred on the liuing on earth not for the sake of any liuing on earth but of Saints departed 3. Reg. 11.15 God shewen mercy to Salamon in differring the punishment which he deserued sor his Idolatry not for Salamons sake but for Dauid his Fathers sake who was dead 4. Reg. 19.34 God protected Ierusalem against the Assyrians nor for Ezechias the Kings sake though he loued him nor for Isaias his sake that then liued and was a Holy Prophet but for his ovvne sake and Dauids sake his seruant Thus wee see that though God loues vs more than the Saints departed loue vs yet he loues them more than vs and giues vs for their sake what he would not grant vs for our own He brings the words of S. Peter Act. 4.12 that there is no saluation in any other and no other Name vnder Heauen wherby wee may be saued all which wee acknowledge and yet Protestants as well as wee do ask the prayers of their Brethren on earth and why may not wee aske the prayers of the Saints in heauen for what wee expect by their intercession and the value and worth of their prayers is altogether grounded and springs from the Merits of that name of Iesus This is all that Mr Sall alleadges against
which is that God prohibited Images to be adored as Gods or as the representations of false Gods which are properly I dols and then enters thequestion which of both interpretations his or ours is the true one which none can decide but an infallible liuing Iudge to which wee both must be bound to submit That God did no prohibit the making of Images or the lykness of things Diuine and Human as the letter of the text sounds our aduersaries must confess for he commanded the Ark of the Testament should be made Ex. 25. the Brasen Serpent to be set vp Num. 21. which Christ sayes Io. 3. was a representation of himself That he did not prohibit all manner of worship and adoration of Images representations and lykness of things which are in heauen aboue and earth it s also manifest for he commanded the Brasen Serpent to be set vp that the people looking on it should be healed and though Mr Sall would perswade vs that no adoration was to be giuen to it yet certainly none can deny but That looking on it was with an inward reuerence and veneration as on an instrument of Gods merices to them and Adoration or vvorship consists properly in the inward affection of the mind Besides the Ark of the Testament which Caluin himself super Psal 105. confesses to be an image of God Arca erat imago Dei was still religiously worshipped by the Iews none permitted to touch it but consecrated persons carried often in Procession by Dauid Reg. 4.3 Reg. 8. and Iosue 6. adored by Iosue and the Israelits prostrated on the ground be fore it Iosue 7.6 But what the Protestants will neuer answer that the Lords supper is a representation of Christ his passion a figure of his Body and is religiously worshipped by them if they do what S. Paul requires 1. Corin. 11.28 by this wee see that the text must not be vnderstood literally prohiting all worship but prohibiting to be worshipped as Gods the world being then plunged in Idolatry some adoring the very statues and Images as Gods others adoring the statues and images as the pictures of seueral things which they belieued to be Gods as Iupiter Venus c. Azor sayes he instit Mor. to 1. l. 9. c. 6. declares it to be the constant iudgment of Diuins that the Image is to be honored vvith the same vvorship vvhervvith that is vvorshipped vvherof it is an Image Azor has no such words and you add falsly that it is our constant Tenet Our Doctrin is declared by the 7. Gen. Council which is Nicen 2. and after by Trent and others that Council decrees Images must be adored and does not determin how that adoration must be called but only excludes the Adoration of Latria which is that which wee giue to God The Diuins after this Council dispute what adoration is it that must be exhibited to them some say only a Relatiue others an Absolut Adoration some saye an Adoration of Latria improperly and for Gods sake to whome only a proper Latria is due and these that speake of this improper Latria are checkt by others because though by scholastical subtilities they may be vnderstood in a Catholick sense yet that expression sounds harsh to pious eares and generally all Diuins do censure any that should out of the school propose those subtilities to vulgar eares But what they all agree in and wee belieue that they must not be adored with that Adoration wherwhith God is adored and wee all say with Epiph. who was present at that Nicen Council Act. 6. non indignas habemus imagines honore veneratione ac salutatione debitamque adorationem illis dare debemus siue igitur obserue these words placebit adorationem siue salutationem appellare idem erit modo sciamus excludi Latriam haec enim est alia a simplici adoratione vvee iudge Images vvorthy of honor and adoration and vvee ought to exhibit it to them call that adoration as you please so it be not Latria it s all alyke vvhat you call it for Latria is different from an ordinary and simple adoration Let some particular Diuins therefore discourse as they please it s not our obligation to excuse them wee belieue with the Church an Adoration but no Latria Petauius sayes he agreat Antiquary declares that for the four first Centuries there vvas little or no vse of Images in the Oratoryes of Christians I cannot imagin to what purpose does Mr Sall bring these quotations of Petauius Azor Iacobus de Graffys if it be not to let his Auditorie or Reader know that he is versed in Authors This proues that the Primitiue Church did vse Images though not so much as now they do and Petauius giues in that very place Dogm Theol. to 5. l. 15. cap. 13. the reason why they were not more frequently vsed because the world conuerted from Paganism that belieued in stocks and stones and some of them that their Gods were Bodyes and not pure Spirits to shun the occasion of a relaps into these errours and to withdraw the people from any apprehensions of Corporality in God Images were but little vsed nay in some places where the danger was greater they were absolutly prohibited and Sanderus l. 2. de cultu imaginum c. 4. sayes this was the reason why the Council of Elibert prohibited the vse of Images S. Gregory whose words you cite would haue the people kept from an Idolatrous worship of Images and pretended no more Not only Nichephorus Calixtus but many this day of the Catholick Church do hold it absurd to paint Images of the Father son and Holy Ghost as they are in their proper substance and Nature nor does the Catholicks vse it as you falsly criminat them but they paint the Father in the form of an Ancient Man as he appeared to the Prophet Daniel the son in human shape and the Holy Ghost in the figure of a Doue as he appeared in the Riuer Iordan Vasquez speaks not a word of Images in the place cited by you 3. p. disp 94. but 3. p. Disp 103.5.4 he sayes Images also as well as Idols are prohibited in the first Commandment and what then Vasquez was mistaken as well as you but you far more for he sayes in that place it was not because the adoration of Images was in it self naught as you say for you say its Idolatry but because it was obnoxious in those tymes to the danger of falling into Idolatry and therefore prohibited but this danger ceasing as in the Law of Grace Images may and ought to be adored and not prohibited by that commandment if he speaks consequently or no it s not my business to examine it You say God commanded the Brasen serpent to be broken because the people worshiped it 2. Reg. 13.4 but the text will inform you well if you set preiudice asyde that they began to adore it for God as they did the molten Calf and therefore it was prohibited You say our people
do not they reape any benefit by your publick Prayers because they cannot vnderstand what is said And if a Hugonot of France came to Dublin who did not vnderstand your language would not you admit him to your Communion and publick seruice by this you see its lawfull of its self to make publick Prayer in an vnkwnowen language You will say and I belieue the Protestant Church will pretend no more that it is not so conuenient for the edification of the people but more needfull it should be in the language that is commonly vsed To this I answer that the Publick Prayer of the Church may be in any language which is thought the most conuenient for the glory of God and spiritual profit of the flock but I say also that it is not you or I or this or that kingdom or Prouince must be the iudge to determin in which language is it most conuenient it should be God has giuen vs a Church who will gouern vs it s to her it belongs to iudge what Rites Ceremonies and manner of Diuin worship wee must practise and as the particular subiects of each Kingdom cannot question the Customs Lawes or Decrees of the Gouernment so the Christian Kingdoms and Prouinces must not question nor iudge of the conueniency of what Rites or practice the Church does establish let vs suppose that in relation to this kingdom of Ireland it might be thought and realy may be som what more aduantagious for the flock to haue the Publick seruice in English or Irish is it therefore it must be lawfull for this kingdom without the approbation of the Church or suprem Pastor of it to vsurp that practice no but you are to represent that conueniency to the Church and acquiesce to her resolution But say you why would the Church of Rome stick on so inconsiderable a thing as that but rather than to be a cause of Schism or separation grant the publick seruice may be in vulgar language and I ask also why would not you or this Prouince or that rather becontent to want that particular comfort which you propose to yourself in doing this or that which is not conformable to the approued practice of the Church rather than to run in desobedience against the Church whose command and Authority is a sufficient warrant for you to allay what scruples your reason may suggest against it The Church ought not to condescend with you and dispense with you in the obseruance of the publick practice and Ceremonies though they be but bcclesiastical and human institutions for if it shoud grant you lycence to say Mass in English why should it not grant France leaue to Communicat in both kinds if France did ask it and if Spaine did ask to Christean with three immersions of the Body and not otherwyse why should not the Church grant it and if Germany did ask the validity of Clandestin Marriages why should it be denyed and so each Kingdom desiring their respectiue priuiledge the vniformity in Diuin seruice Administration of Sacraments and Ecclesiastical Rites so much commended in the Church would be quite ouerthrowen It s the Church therefore must iudge and determin in what language is it most conuenient to worship God by Publick Prayers and wee are to acquiesee to the Decree and commands of the Church And therfore Luther who vnder pretence of greater conueniency and spiritual comfort of the congregation condemned Publick seruice in vulgar languages against the practice of the Church schismatically separated himself from her in which separation you continue by adhering to his Doctrin The Church established Publick seruice in the Latin language behold why because it is the common language of the Church as in respect of England English is the common language and spanish in respect of spaine so in relation to the Church spred throughout all Nations the Latin is the most vniuersal and common Therefore it was conuenient the Publick Prayer of the Church which is said in all parts should be in the publick and most vniuersall language which is the Latin And as each kingdom has a language proper to it self so the Church which is the kingdom of Christ has its proper language which is Latin which is so vniuersally knowen Secondly for to preserue vniformity in the manner of Diuin worship if the Mass had been in English three hundred yeare agon how different would the Mass be now from what it was then the language being wholy an other from what then is was doubtless it would haue caused great alteration in the publick seruice Thirdly if the Mass were not in Latin or som language vniuersally knowen throughout the world but in the particular language of each kingdom when Priests would come from their own Countries to ours in Pilgrimage or for other occasion they would not be premitted or not without great difficultie to say Mass and so would be depriued of that spiritual Comfort Scripture prohibited I pray Sr what do your People learn in their houses by reading the Bible is it not Rebellion against their Church and contempt of all Spiritual Authority each one obstinatly adhering to that sense of the text which he iudgeth the best and thus your Church is deuided into a numberless number of sects this is smale encouragement for vs to permit to our common people the vse of the Bible iudging it better to knovv to sobriety as S. Paul counsels than by pretending to know more than behoueth to run into those inconueniencies wherin you haue fallen You accuse the Catholick Church for exposing Images to the adoration of the flock for the danger of falling into Idolatry and this is the reason that Caluin also giues you haue liued many years in Spain where Images are in great veneration you haue been much acquainted with the Inquisition as you would haue vs belieue you know the seuerity of that Tribunal against Hereticks Iewes and Idolaters how many haue you seen in spain that by adoring Images came to fall into Idolatry doubtless had there been any the Inquisition would haue taken holt of him for though the Inquisition permits Images it would neuer leaue Idolatry occasioned by the adoration of Images vnpunished And not one I dare say did you euer see or heare of to haue been punished on this account Now consider how many haue fallen into Heresies and errours quite opposit euen to your Church by the liberty granted for reading of Scripture hence has proceeding all the Sects that are in our kingdoms and elswhere Does not this demonstrat that there is far greater danger of Heresy in the vsual reading of the Bible than of Idolatry in adoring of Images ought not you rather therefore to decry the liberty of reading the Bible than the adoration of Images But reply you this proues that euen the Priests and fryers ought to be kept from reading it for it s they that haue abused it and broached all heresies and things must not be prohibited that are