so that upon his ground nor tender conscience shall ever be able to satisfie it selfe in a stayed condition and if by a lye R. B. shall goe about to satisfie any as he pretendeth that was the cause that moved him to answer my discourse it will never doe it such are not much beholding to him for neither they nor the truth needeth any mans lie but I will forbeare to trouble thee further Courteous Reader Thine in the service of Love R. B. A SHORT ANSWERE TO A Passage in R. B. his Epistle to the READER IN his Epistle he telleth the Reader that there needeth nothing to be said to overthrow the matter of the discourse then what is contayned in it and this he saith is in a matter wherin the whole building consisteth but what now if R. B. misse in this and be found to be deceived as he was in his former Baptismes then the whole building may nay must be granted to stand It is in the perpâ—tuity of the Church-Estate under the New Testament and so of Baptisme by which I difference the matter thereof The further saith I make Baptisme to depend on the Church but what then then he inserreth that unlesse I be able to shew the continuednesse of the Church of Christ till these dayes I cannot be assured that the Baptisme there is the Ordinance of God But what if I can shew this where is R. B. then but he saith pag. 2 3. I confesse I know none nor doe I beleeve that any can shew any such continuance But is worth the observing the evill dealing of the man his willingnesse to deceive hee knoweth and the Reader may observe I produced Scriptures to prove the perpetutie of the Church in the World such as he nor any other are able to avoyde or shew another sence of them than that for which they were produced I made an Inference from that in the 13. Heb. whereat he and others were much offended Then I distinguished thus that this Estate of Christs-Church continued under Antichrists exaltation or else it continued somewhere else as a part from under that deffection for somewhere it must continue that it continued any where else as in a pure way I sayd I did beleeve none could make it appeare and therefore it must need continue under Antichrists exaltation and that it did not continue other where than under the deffection of Antichrist I alleadged those Scriptures of the Universalitie of the defection and the Waldenses being the first fruites to God which could not be if the Church had continued any where pure which it did not but in defection it continued without being made null what ever R. B. thinketh to the contrary now what could be more plaine than this as in my discourse may be seen With what face then doth R. B. feed his Reader with such a fable and so abuse his opposite and triumph in his owne folly and cry victorie truly he in this dealeth with his opposite as the Divell dealt with our Lord keeps back a mayne part and so shewing a mind to smother the truth and keep it in unrighteousnesse I will appeale to any indifferent Iudgement if it be not fully declared what is before said and that I hold the continuednesse of the Church-Estate under the defection but not in a pure way and if R. B. or any other thinke this a new opinion it will but shew their Ignorance for as learned and godly men are my Leaders herein as those hee catcheth at for advantage touching Baptisme of Children being a humane Ordinance namely Mr. Junius Duplices Lord of Morney the harmony of the Churches confession and others The holy Scriptures I shewed did hold forth the continuation and perpetuity of the visible Church a plant of Gods owne planting not to be rooted out for ever as it had continued from Abraham to Moses from Moses to Christ so it should continue for ever for proofe whereof I set forth sundry scriptures as in my discourse may be seen To which R. B. in stead of granting or denying entereth upon a discourse to prove a matter neither in question nor yet ever by any denyed and in the end without shewing any right sense or meaneing of those Scriptures the better to informe his Reader he flatly denieth the sense of his opposite and calleth him false Prophet and on that hath spoken presumptuously in the name of the Lord a heavie charge he onely instanceth in those two Scriptures that are propheticall Esay 9. 7. 59. 27. happily hee might feare there might be something in the other so he passed them by But thus he proceedeth to reason that if the visible Church of Chrrist hath not had a perpetuall interrupted succession in the World ever since the first planting of it till these dayes though the Prophesie bee true yet the sense of his opposite is false here by the way I note how R. B. corrupteth his opponents conclusion with words of his owne coining which words indeed are contradictorie and plaine non-sense in regard of the thing in hand the matter in hand is the perpetuity or continuednesse of Christs Church in the world he commeth with perpetuall interrupted succession this succession he hath often in his answer wherein hee just speakes like a Parret perpetuity and succession cannot stand together for where there is perpetuity of a thing there is no place for succeeding succeeding or succession may be in regard of an Office one giveth place another succeedeth and taketh place but cannot be so with the Church as in my discourse may be seen it may increase and decrease but it alwayes abideth for ever so as his succession is an Ignoramus if not a Bull But he commeth to answer hee will Psal 121. 1. make my owne matter confute mee I said the defection was universall I so say still as said the Waldenses in regard of purity were the first fruits unto God he saith so too But it is much he will acknowledge them so to be hee may wrong his cause ere he is aware they were not Disciples by totall dipping the French Churches proceeded of them R. B. might have been baptised by them they were the first fruites as he confesseth so as he and his toall dippers cannot be it or them but where did I speake of and prove the universality of the defection not to prove the utter cessation of the Church-State R. B. cannot be so blind but to manifest that it continued not in a pure way as a part from the defection but under the defection I said it must needs there continue and the errour and absurditie of such an opinion I desired any to shew if they could so as had not R. B. been a vain Caviler he would not have left the plaine matter and drift as he hath done and by leaving out the distinction with the drift made a part as if it were some other thing But now further as he granteth the largenesse of the defection and
suppose any indifferent Chapman can see into it I shall onely make a short reply to what is excepted against in my discourse First he excepteth against this that Christ should be said to be a widower if his visible Church died and ceased to be any more in the world to this I have answered before and referre the reader to it Christ the husband of his Church must be a Widower if his Church died To this hee sayth wee differ not in the matter or substance No that is strange what is his reason He saith the Church is either in heaven or earth so I say is a mans wife when she is dead either in the world or out of it But hee saith Christ hath a Church though no visible one but our question is of the visible that is Christs wife Ephe. 5. If that die or died Christ must be a widower sure But he saith his Church became Invisible then it changed the nature of it But he thinketh it is cleare that some time it was so invisible Reve. 6. 13. 14. but sure he wanteth a cleare judgement as in other things so in this Scripture heaven departed away as a scrole when it is rolled together A scrole is a visible substance when it is rolled up though not so visible as when unrolled heaven the estate of Christ Church departed away no otherwise then as a scrole which is the same and continueth it being rolled as unrolled indeed he is visible rolled more visible unrolled R. B. his inference namely that the Church is not alway visible is unsound Till the eight seale was powred forth Heaven or the Church was as a scrole unrolled so as the things therein written might be seene so was the Church while it remained now pure But after that time it departed as a scrole rolled up so was the case and in some sort is still of the Church under deepe defection The restoring of the Church to puritie is the unrolling of the scrole begun and yet a doing he addeth but to what purpose I suppose he knoweth not Reve. 11. 7. 12. Further he saith the Church was hid in the wildernesse for a time and times and halfe a time But from whom is it that she was thus hid from the Serpen I but if she be hid she is preserved and hath her being and having a being she is visible nothing can be more plaine She is hid from the rage of the serpent from the crueltie of the enemie but visible to her friends and to the members and those that in good will doe seeke her If E. B. in some danger of the enemie as in the time of the Bishops should have retired to some place of secresie and there have hid himselfe was he therefore to his wife and other friends a man invisible because so hid Truely any man of reason may see to what purpose these Scriptures serve his turne and that they are fully against him and his opinion which he bringeth them for and do prove the continuednesse of the Church and visibillitie of it which he opposeth In the wildernesse the Church continued if by wildernesse hee will not understand the state of defection he must then understand by wildernesse private places for other sence I suppose he cannot finde I he choose the latter as I suppose he will If he had taken or would take paines to traverse the world If he could not finde the Church remaining in Europe in Asia Affrica or America he might finde her for in the wildernesse she is to be preserved as before and there finding of her he might have lighted his candle and beene baptized and added to the Church And he should not have beene put upon such a necessitie as to begin Baptisme by an unbaptized person acting of it without any Commission or warrant from Christ But hee and others of his minde had rather spare his paines and labour of seeking and searching the wildernesse for her and without Scripture or word of God beleeve and hold she is seased out of the world and gone to heaven and must be so raised and restored in the earth againe by this way of their own devising which never came into the minde of Almightie God His second exception is to what I propounded that if Rev. 7. 31. Baptisme was lost and fallen out of the world none but a Christ a Moses an Elias or at least a prophet from heaven might restore the blinde Jewes could see this that it was unlawfull for any other To this hee sayth that he granteth that an ordinance lost and fallen out of the world none but a Christ a Moses Elias or a prophet from heaven can raise it Baptisme was thus lost hee acknowledgeth when did Christ Moses Elias or any Prophet from Heaven come to raise it againe where are they or who be they that we may doe them reverence Sure he can shew none such But this hee rhinketh may serve beleevers having Christ the Word and Spirit so he sayth may doe it Indeed they that have Christ Moses Elias or prophets from heaven may doe great things but alas these being in heaven are not at their beck It is likely he meaneth they have their word there was never any held any error so great but did assume to have that and the Spirit also But supposing to have Christ the Word and Spirit how then doth he prove such may raise a lost ordinance without speciall Commission he quoteth foure Scriptures Matth. 18. 19. 20. 11. 11. Luke 17. 28. Rom. 10. 6. We will view the Scriptures Matth. 18. 19. 20. If two of you agree and againe where two or three are gathered in my Name c. To which I say that it is not meant two or three unbaptized persons such have no warrant Commission or promise in this kinde Cornelius and his family and friends were two three such yet they must send for Peter Two or three is Acts 10. 2. 5. Ast. 2. 41. or usually and I judge truely taken for the Church two or three unbaptised persons I deny to be a Church let E. B. that would have an example of baptising Infants shew an example or any ground from Scripture of a unbaptised Church There is cleare examples of Beleevers being Baptized and added to the Church where there was a Ministrie of Christ however where there were Baptized persons to Baptize them but alas for beleevers so called to become a Church being unbaptized is without all warrant of scripture I conceive I shall â—ot neede to wade further in answer for doubtlesse this Scripture will be judged by the reader to bee impertinent to his purpose The 11. Matth. 11. Luke 7. 28. both which containe one matter are the next They speake of John and that the least in the Kingdome of God is greater then he though he were great indeed The force is suposed to lie here greater and so may baptize as hee did without Warrant or Commission though he had
the Waldenses to bee the first fruites to God so he confidently denieth the continuednesse of the Church-State in the World especially under the defection but let his reasons be weighed first is because it was given to him namely the man of sinne that sitteth in the Temple of God to make Warre with the Saints and Thes 2. Rev 13. 7. to overcome them a weighty reason thus must needs die or cease to be because overcome a person is overcome when he yieldeth submitteth himselfe so a Kingdome and a Citie yet they cease not to be Beside it was about particular Saints that were overcome what is this to the ceasing of the whole Church this reason is so lame it had need of another to support it which he addeth to as little purpose if to overcome then they could not coÌ„tinue wonderfull so before yet further he saith if the Church continued he did not overcome them and kill them with the sword Rev. 13. 15. Answer Some of the Members might bee killed Rev. 3. as Antipas was that faithfull Martyr the Church-Estate or all the Churches of Christ killed with the sword and so overcome is reason without sence such as R. B. himself will not believe when he hath better considered of it if some of the Members of R. B. Church were killed with the sword yet he would thinke his Church might continue yea if all of them were so killed yet he cannot but think the Church might continue some where else but belike feareing his reasons to be weake he hath a further reason to prove the Church did not so continue Those that worshipped the Beast were such whose names were not written in the Lambes booke of life therefore the Church Rev. 13. it could not continue what the strength and force of this reason is is beyond my capacity till it be explained reprobate men worshipped the Beast so they worshipped the Calves of old and Idolls of Gold and Silver and their Gods â—â—se 13 2. Psal 106. 36. 38. â—er 2. 28. were as their Cities what is that to the ceasing of the Church R. B. had need goe to Schoole to learne stronger reasons it is no marvell he should be so confident he fulfilleth the Proverb none so bold as bâ—ind Bayard but he goeth on further in this his perversenesse and speaketh of the Greeks and would make his Reader beleeve I hold no Church-Estate remaining among them because I said there is little difference in their defection and the Romanist and they will stand and fall together being measur'd by a like measure Answer they will so stand together as that the Church-Estate will remaine in the one and other whatsoever R. B. is able to say to the contrary after this hee taketh notice of what else where he consealeth of the Chuches continuance else where might have added in a pure way I said I supposed none was able to make appeare such a continuednesse to have been in the World if any could I said and say still I should be glad and were it not a matter to be glad of it would not R B. be glad also happily he would be sorry because his new way would bee disparaged yea indeed overthrowne and he foreced to be baptised a fourth time But having thus gone on he saith who can beleive his exposition of Esay 9. seeing he to witt his opposite testifieth that none is able to make the truth thereof of what of the Church in purity her continuance but in defection under the Greeks Romanist it may be made appear where will R. B. be then among those false Prophets he speaketh of but further here he saith it must follow right or wrong that I have given a false Interpretation of Esay 9. and also of all the Scriptures to prove the perpetuity of the Church and none shall bee able to cleare me But where is that true Interpretation of R. B that might informe his Reader he hath not studied it yet unlesse it be that the Church is ceased let the Scripture say what it will because otherwise his opinion cannot stand so he proceedeth that thus having confuted my self he thinketh it needlesse to spend time in the confutation of it It was time spent indeed vainely for him to meddle unlesse he had better understood what he tooke in hand after he falleth a complaining of wrong done for being blamed for not beleeving the Churches continuance in the World then it seemeth they doe not beleeve the continuance but the cessation they doe they had need of better ground to beleeve against so many cleare Scriptures then yet R. B. hath found out but how ever I did not mistake their judgement in that I said there was no ground for their practice till they did beleeve such a cessation which they doe and so their practice is grounded on a grosse errour and a flat denyall of the Scripture cleare it if they can but having so marvellously quited himselfe as he thinketh he complayneth further for being accused for making Christ a Widower Answ If the visible Church was Christs wife and it died as you beleeve and hold and remained without being for a long season was not Christ a widdower then and all that time if he would but be pleased to minde the 5th of the Ephes he would confesse it Christ sometime had a Church but he lost it is he then to day as hee was yesterday observe what tautologie hee here useth or non-sense perpetuity and succession which I would not mention for I thinke he is no great Artist as well as my self save only he ubraided me with it in his Epistle he asketh me whether â— would have them to beleeve that I cannot beleeve my selfe Ans I can beleeve and doe the Churches continuance in the World under the defection of Antichrist if they did beleeve so too it would please me well and sure there would be no place for their unwarranted proceed But this of being charged with making Christ a Widower sticketh neere his stomack hee cannot digest it therefore he hath a lame consequence about it ere he let it passe If Christ be a Widdower if he have not alwaies a visible Church in the World then hee inferreth that there is no salvation out of the visible Church Indeed ordinarily the learned have held there is not but extraordinarily there may but what then thinking belike there was litle in this he addeth none can be saved which are not first united and made one with Christ whether he meane union of Faith or Order is hard to be said suppose union of Faith what is that to the question in hand and I would aske R. B. what shall become of Infants but because he propoundeth it as an inconvenience attending the holding the perpetuity of the Church and so asketh me the question which he might have spared till he could resolve what should become of Children dying in Infâ—ncy I shall answer that John Hus and Ierome of
Frague and other holy Confessors of Iesus Christ they had union with Christ by Faith which is first and maine yea they had relation to the Church though in deep defection so as he publisheth his hope in vaine he saith further if they were united to Christ then Christ may have a spouse although no visible Church in the World but he doth but say it wee may chuse whether we will beleeve him It is as much non sense as if we should say Christ may have a Spouse though hee have none sure R. B. grew dull and much forgot himselfe The next Section containeth for the most part tautology the man delighting to sport himselfe like a foole with his owne bable onely he had a minde to aske me a question which I shall answer in convenient place R. B. Proceedeth further and hath another bout concerning the perpetuity of the Church carrying along with him his devised fable which he still fathers on mee without which he can say nothing he tells his Reader that I say seeing none can make it appeare elsewhere he might have added in purity he saith I say it is likely it continued under Antichrist so it seemeth he knew my drift and did of purpose wrest and pervert my words But he here demandeth how it can bee probable why because a little before I spake of the universality of the deection I did so to shew no Churches remained a part in a pure way therefore I said there that which hee also mentioneth here that in that regard the Waldenses were the first fruits to God they comming first out of defection into purity but the 2 Thess 2. troubleth the man much and that I alleadge it to prove the Churches continuance under the defection of Antichrist This is a riddle to R. B. and he is as a in a maze but hee answereth plainely here that Temple here spoken of where the man of sinne sitteth and is worshipped cannot bee taken for the Church of God but what is his reason because it is said verse the 3. the man of sinne is not revealed till first there be a departing then v. 9 10. he speaketh of his deceiveablenesse in the way of his comming he asketh himselfe a question and maketh himselfe answer such as it is in whom saith hee not in the Church but in them that perish as if many of the Church might not perish sure he forgetteth the Parable of the ten Virgins that five were wise and five foolish Mat. 25. but doth R. B. indeed thinke that the mystery of iniquity rose not in but out of the Church that is a rare opinion and singular judgement which I never heard of before and most contrary to the truth for the Churches might have continued till now in purity but for the working of that mysterie and beside I would faine learne how it should be a mystery if simply in the World not at all in the Church I had like to have passed by his reason the falling away is first the revealing is after what of this when the man of sinne which began to worke in the Church in the Apostles time had got some strength then he shewed himselfe more fully but he saith it must needs follow that seeing the persons the matter of the Church are departed from the Faith therefore it must needs follow they are not in any wise to bee esteemed the Church of God he doth but say this also we need not beleeve him Psal 106 28. Eâ—â—ch 16 unles we will but sure this departing was not totall like their dipping Iudah was departed from God and followed Idoles yet with Iudah was Gods Church so it may be and Eze. 16. is under the defection for all his saying in no wise it cannot be he would further inforce it from my judgement about the Beast and because they that wonder after the Beast and follow him are such as are not written in the Lambs booke of life It may be I am dull sure I understand not where the force of this reason lieth in regard of the matter in hand what if I doe hold the Church may consist of such many of whom may perish I thinke the Scripture will maintaine me in it But he hath a wonderfull conclusion I doe not say it is presumptuous but sure it is blasphemous his exposition of 2 Thess 2. He saith the Temple there is no more the Temple of God than Antichrist that sitteth there is God nor no otherwise to be esteemed nor hath any on more reason to affirme the one than the other see if he doe not taxe the Spirit ir selfe for the Spirit with more reason affirmeth it then R. B. hath reason so arrogantly to speak as he doth It were good for all sober minded men to beware of such desperate contradictors of the word of God weigh but the matter seriously is there no more reason to affirme the one than the other why doth the Spirit say he doth sit in the Temple of God what Temple hath God in the World but his Church and that is called his Temple every where The mystery of inquity it rose up in the Church how 2 Thes 2. â— long it was before the Church was destroyed by it R. B. cannot tell at the first it was of the same nature being weake as after when it was strong and was exalted to that height all which weighed it will appeare that R. B. had little reason to speake presumptuously as he hath done he taketh what he hath said for a full confutation and that it cannot bee any such continuednesse of the Church and most impudently fathering a lie upon me he concludeth this matter It must bee as R. B. pag. 2. saith that under the defection of Antichrist it could not continue but where are any such words in page 2. or in any part of my discourse no marvell he that durst be so bold with the Scripture should deale so by me sure his Church if it continue till they know it will deale with him for it for without not within is place for all liers Thus I have Rev. 22. 15. followed him to and fro in this particular of the Churches perpetuity and continuednesse in the World particularly under the defection of Antichrist I doubt not but it will appeare to be a truth for all R. B. hath said or is able further to say to the contrary that he beleeveth it not I suppose it doth plainely appeare that they in their way have no ground to goe on till this beleeved namely the cessation of the Church that their practice is grounded upon the denyall of a truth fully held forth in the Scriptures of the Churches perpetuity let them shift it if they can and in their next let them informe the Reader the true sense and right meaning of those Scriptures by mee alleadged and I only advise they take heed of falling into some familisticall straine I have done Now he proceedeth to
broken downe the case it was otherwise and this R. B. in part confesseth as their scruple but he seeketh to turne another way by multipâ—yiâ—g words and in the end maketh this the sum of all that their children so begotten are Legitimate that is true borne not bastards a wonderfull case and rare exposition if one be a beleever then the children are true borne but if neither be then the children are bastards what a number of Bastards are there in the world in R. B. his sence hee addeth as a reason of his exposition that the holinesse of the childe is not concluded from the beleeving of the parents but from their lawfull use each of other which is utterly untrue and contrary to the sence of the scripture that tearmeth the seed of those of the Church holy for their relation sake but the seed of other not having relation uncleane though borne in never so true wedlock But R. B. againe saying the same without any shew of proofe that it proveth no more holinesse in the seed of the faithfull then in the seed of the heathen borne in wedlock But he doth but say it we are not bound to beleeve him unlesse we will He intendeth brevitie he saith and so referreth me further for answer of R. B. where the the matter is handled at large These he saith are the reasons I can shew for baptizing of children which because they satisfie not some but they require as well he saith they may a precept or example for warrant He saith I promise to doe that but first requires a precept or example to be shewed of an unbaptized persons baptizing either himselfe or others and also the like for rejecting children their member-ship in the Church and right in the Covenant as of old These two he hath sufficiently done Indeede if hee might bee his owne judge he hath but truely he must to work about it againe or otherwise men of judgement will count his cause lost for R. B. to proove that an unbaptized person may baptize himselfe or others before he be baptized himselfe brings Davids eating of the shew-bread and the Alsufficiencie of the scripture to instruct the man of God in every good work And for cutting of the Intayle of children from the Covenant and putting them out of the Church that one onely Allegorie mentioned in the scripture Gala. 4. and this expounded aright and not according to his erroneous sence is so far from being for him as it is cleare against him It is no marvell he should say it is sufficiently done It is well he is judge in his own cause for sure others no not those of his owne way will say any such thing for him Now he will take notice of the performance of my promise and so to the first thing by me set downe he having cavelled at it before he passeth it by Namely children their being baptized into Moses in the Cloud and Sea a verie cleare example He mindeth my next as the first and that is of the baptizing whole housholds as the Jaylers Lydiah and the houshold of Stephanus by Paul himselfe R. B. replieth to this and saith he requireth an example of Baptizing Children and not of housholds It is worth the noting what unequall dealing may be found in men and how far men are from measuring to others what they require of others to be measured to them to prove that an unbaptized person may baptize Davids eating the shew-bread is a verie cleare example and full proofe with R. B. And he may take himselfe wronged if any shall refuse it If I had said to him I require an example not of eating shew-bread but of an unbaptized person baptizing of himself what would he have said he it is likely would have minded me of the substance of the thing and the nature and agreement of the matter so parralled as he intended I minde him so to minde this Instance and proceede I reasoned thus from these examples If Children with their Parents entred not the Covenant Church estate now as of old they did The Apostles would have spoken more particularly and not so generally for sure hee minded the reproofe of our Lord to marke 10. 14. those Disciples that hindred children from comming to him for this reason amongst other because the Church consists of such It is an example for baptizing whole housholds however wherin usually are yong children It is as pertinent however as Davids eating the shew-bread before A family may be tendred a whole family may be baptized It lieth on the part of R. B. if I mistake not to declare by what right they being a part should be put by If he can shew no further discharge but that Allegorie they will doe well enough I told him if a houshold were tendered to Baptisme and I will now put the case if hee was to be the Baptizer and there should be an infant two or three in it and Pauls example should be alleadged to him by what warrant would he put them by or who should be his pattern It seemeth he would rather chuse to follow the disciples which Christ blamed for hindring Mark 10. 14. Children in their comming to him rather then the minde of our Lord or example of Paul But what I inferred about this he passed by with silence And thinketh to pay me home saying this proveth no more the baptizing of children then it proveth the baptizing of notorious drunkards theeves and swearers or whole housholds have bin baptized in som housholds there are such ergo If I should tell R. B. that Iohn Baptist did baptize such and so the cause is by him unaware granted he would Matth. 3. 7. Luke 4. 7. Luke 4. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. tell mee they confessed their sins first but the scripture telleth him and us all that they were a generation of vipers whose good fruits were not then brought forth pleasing himselfe in the paralell he saith to me who seeth not your folly I may I suppose with more ground Retort it on R. B. againe for making such a paralell and Illusion for would he have drunkards c. to be baptized whether they would or no And if these being in a family confesse their sinnes though they forsake them not sure R. B. or otherwise he differeth from those of his owne way especially if they own but totall dipping will thinke it meet to baptize them upon that their confession and profession though they were and doe after appeare to remaine such drunkards theeves and whores as hee speaketh of who may not see R. B. his shallownesse thus to please himselfe with just nothing He commeth to the next I said the whole Church of Collosse was baptized as the whole church of old were circumcised now a part of the Church which was thus buried with Christ in baptisme were children To this hee answereth our question is of Infants and not of children in the generall some of which may be
one By this reason women may baptize they being of the kingdome of Heaven and beleevers but sure unbaptized persons cannot be the Kingdome of Heaven in this sence Cornelius might have baptized his family and friends and needed not to have sent for Peter Certainly our Lord was greater then John and the Lord of all beleevers yet he did not baptize himselfe or others but went to John that he might fullfill righteousnesse and so would these were they like minded to him they would goe to them that Matth. 3. 15. were baptized and had Commission to baptize others These Scriptures the strength whereof lieth in a Comparaâ—ive way without all question E. B. doth not yet understand the scope of them and that it maketh nothing for him every ordinary judgement will see and I will say no more The 10. Rom. 6. 7. 8. is the last place by which he will prove that unbaptized persons beleeving may baptize others and so raise the ordinance lost and fallen out of the world this place of the Apostle is that of Moses Deu. 30. 11. 12. 13. 14. 1 Sâ—m 13. 9. 11. 2. â—hron 26. 18. 1 Cor. 1â— 33. 40 It would better have fitted Saul to have excused his disobedience he being in a great strait and foolishly adventuring to sacrifice Vzziah the king might better and to more purpose have alleadged the same for burning incense for which the priest withstood him hee being for it smitten with leprosie Can E. B. account God to be the God of order or thinke well of him for making a breach in Vzza for neglect of order and hold thâ—â— every beleever may without any more adoe act any ordinance of never so high a nature or peculiar concernment and saying say not who shall a scend into Heaven and the word is neare them will serve their turne and bear them out Alas it would not serve Saul nor Vzza nor Vzziah though a King neither will it in the least serve an unbaptized person the which I leave also to the judgement of the Reader After this he speaketh that the Scripture is silent of John his baptizing of himselfe I say though it be yet it is not silent concerning his Commission they shew these it were to purpose Then abruptly he falleth could on the Apostacie of Israel and AntiChrist saith the Apostacy of Anti-Christ greater then iâ— that of Israel indeed so it had need with reference to their course and so he saith though they did not againe circumcise themselves yet now they may againe be baptized though the Scripture be as silent concerning it as it is of Johns Baptizing himselfe c. It is well he will ingenuously acknowledge the silence of the Scripture in the matter but what is their course now not having the Scripture for the rule of it a voluntarie course of their Esaâ— 8. owne devising to be shunned of all Gods people who are to cleave to the Law and Testimonie But we will a litle minde his reason why the Apostacie of Antichrist is greater then that of Israel it is this they were called Sodomites and Egyptians these were the worst of Pagans and so of the Gentiles Reve. 11. 2. 8. It is but Spiritually they are so called And Israel in their Apostacie from God is called by the like termes Esay 1. 10. 57. Esay 3. Neither doth it appeare that Sodomites and Egyptians were the worst of Heathen unlesse any please to beleeve his bare saying so truely this is a poor way of confuting a matter Bâ—â—â—â— further saith Israels Apostacie did not raze the foundation of the constitution of their Church It is well he so holdeth others of his way have not held so Israel forsooke God and his pure worship and followed Hos 4 17. 8. 4. Idols They worshipped the Calves at Dan and Bethel if their ground were true that corruption it maketh a nullitie it is marvellous they should remaine a true Church But it is plaine he saith that Antichrist hath changed all ordinances both in Church and Ministery Worship and Government Esai 24. 5. and so hath destroyed baptisme To which I answer it is not so plaine as it is plaine E. B. is foolishly confident of his owne opinions and conceits though he have no ground for them doth the 24. Esay 5. prove it so plainly E. B. hath a veine to make any thing prove his matter he thinketh he hath to deale with children with whom he is so out of charitie hee goeth on adding one thing to another without any relation and so saith the matter of the Church under the Gospell must know the Lord and bee all taught of him If all of E. B. his Church doe so know God and be so taught of him it is well if it be so they have the more wrong done them further he bringeth all the difference betwixt him the Church of Rome and England to a very narrow point and that is they do not baptise believers only confessing faith and sins c. If they did they would not leave her they doe baptize persons of yeeres in Nova Spania and other parts of the Indies yea in Rome and so also in England they baptize Iewes Turks and Moors who confesse their faith and their sins they baptize infants also that is a lesse errour then the worshipping of the Calves which when E. B. hath well considered happily he may leave off his separation and be reconciled againe Further he seemeth to say something to what I minded in my discourse that some are so filled with prejudice that they have no patience to think of the church estate remaining under Antichrist exaltation to this he saith they shall ever bee ready to speake or write I say like enough so but not to heare it seemeth It is a vertue to be swift to heare and slow to speake I did in my discourse Iames 1. 19. desire any to set forth the hurt that commeth of holding the Ordinance of the Church and Baptisme to have bin in captivitie in Babylon and there preserved by the power of God for a time c. And now by the same power brought forth to freedome and puritie God returning to build his Tabernacle broke downe and ruined But Act. 15. not destroyed as sometime of old the Church and vessels of the Lord were in Babylon and thence returned to the vessels he answereth but to the Church it seemeth hee knew not what to answer and so passeth it by with silence notwithstanding he hold as before as in the end of his third replie the constitution of that Church was founded in the land of Canaan and being removed thence by his ground must become voide To the vessels he most ignorantly replieth and saith the vessels of the Lords house had no relation to the sprinkling of infants his reason is they were the Lords ordinances and is not the Church and Baptisme so also he saith they needed no new casting so long as they remained the