a true Christian than to a Turke Your reason which you giue of hauing communion with visible Churches because they haue externall communion with Christ in the order which hee hath set doeth not infringe but confirme my proofe for whence hath that order this force of drawing anie to communion because that is a signe of inward true communion Wheresoeuer then there is euident discerning of inward there outward is lawfull I am not ignorant of some circumstantiall expediences which tie those that liue in well ordered Assemblies more than other men but to omit that the question is generall not onely of such There is nothing simply vnlawfull to one in the nature of it at least to giue assent to that is lawfull for an other neyther can there bee any instance giuen of an action lawfull in one to performe which is vnlawfull for anie other to assent vnto That of excommunication I answered before Your first answere to the third Argument is besides the question which in your owne words is generall of any besides it is a very strange order that is broken by saying Amen to a godly mans prayer the Scripture knoweth no such I am sure In the second you mistake that reason from the will to the deed For howsoeuer before God in spirituall actions it so holdeth yet before men especially in priuiledges belonging to any outward societie it nothing auaileth to make profession of such a desire But if it doth as you say then doth it great wrong vnto all good Christians in denying them communion who professe they desire to ioyne in all the ordinances of God so farre as they can discerne them So whereas you say that such as intend a couenant are in the doore I hope all conuerted Christians are at the least in the doore of the true Church or if you make the doore so narrow I nothing doubt but ye may goe into the Porch and Court of the Lords house to take a godly man by the hand These things considered I am halfe perswaded that you will confesse your selfe to haue sinned in separating those whome God hath ioyned together in communion That is all visible Saints which God of his mercie graunt Your true friend William Ames CHAP. IX To the right Reuerend master Francis Iohnson our Pastor with the other Elders his Assistants Our ouerseers grace and peace be multiplied SEeing beloued that we are fallen into perillous daies some faining vnto themselues one religion and some another and because the right way is a strait way euery one whose way is strait doth thinke that they haue that right way And considering the many sorts of the separation at this day cursing or reiecting one another others thinking but basely one of another as to begin with our selues whom master Ainsworth and his followers hath left and reiected as false Christians master Robinson holding but key-cold brother-hood with vs and master Ainsworth and he and we iarring about ruling Elders those in Suffolke holding it vnlawfull to eat blood and to flie as we haue heard Iohn Wilkinson and his disciples will haue Apostles Thomas Leamar will haue no Churches with other his wicked differences The heresie of one Thomas Lemar described by master Padget with this title The Monster of Lemarisme THis Monster was set forth with seuen heads 1 Mahometisme in that Lemar denied the holy Trinitie and the eternall God-head of Christ 2 Iudaisme in affirming that Christ should come shortly in his owne person to raigne heere vpon earth 3 Papisme in holding that a meere creature is to bee worshipped 4 Lutheranisme in maintaining the doctrine of Consubstantiation 5 Anabaptisme in affirming that Christ tooke not his flesh of the virgin Marie 6 Libertinisme in holding that there is no visible Church now on earth 7 Brownisme in holding the doctrine of their separation Master Smith an Anabaptist of one sort and master Helwise of another and master Busher of another Iohn Hancock wil haue a separation by himselfe The ground of master Neuils errors was also separation though now hee bee further runne backward then euer he was forward to speake nothing of Pedder Henrie Martin with the rest of those Anabaptists These are motiues forwarding our meditations this way together with our mortalitie and the iustice of God punishing sin so that we dare not deferre to make knowne our repentance vnto you for the space of an houre longer we might note the hand of God against vs in our estates a iust punishment for sin by the law of God The thing then is this whereas some yeares since our minds were much affected and troubled with the horride estate of the Churches of our natiue countrey and whilest wee were thus musing many wayes and reading such bookes as came to our hands amongst other we light vpon some booke of this cause laying open more corruptions in all estates and that with more simplicitie and plainenesse as we thought so still the way was prepared vnto Separation and we pricked forward as with spurres and goads But then insisting further that the Church of England was a false Church and that knowne sin not purged out doth defile the whole Church as leauen doth the lumpe and we perceiuing so much sowre dowe we needed no eloquent Rhetoritian to perswade vs vnto separatiō For had those two things been true and a iealous eye and heart making them his obiect it would not make them go but run to separation and to be as the Hee-goats before the flocke so haue wee done vntill of late and perswaded as many to follow vs as we could if they looke or hope for saluation the Lord pardon vs for it But seeing that the discouerie of the Churches of England to bee false Churches is now by our selues discouered to be but a fiction we cannot perceiue but that our Separation in that behalfe is at an end for the cause being remoued the effects must needs vanish and so in those two respects it repenteth vs that we haue separated And sithence that repentance cannot be knowne to be sincere except it be shewed forth by action or speech or both therefore by this writing we do make it knowne by voice by our actions we shall make it knowne as God shall minister iust occasion Thus Reuerend and well beloued in treathing you to reade this vnto the Church or to deliuer the whole substance of it by speech that they may take knowledge of it lest we be blamed of many hereafter that we did not make our minds knowne vnto them we cease praying the Lord to shew vs all mercie to go with a steedie foot in the truth Amen The eighth of Iuly 1611. new stile By two of your feeble flocke fearefull any longer to go astray MAT. SAVNDERS CVTH HVTTEN CHAP. X. The testimonie of W. Simson against the Prophets in master Ainsworths Church BEloued and reuerend in the Lord the consideration of our estate doth so disquiet my conscience and trouble my mind that indeed
this Dan. Studley is let them aske Samuel Fuller a Deacon of master Robinsons Church and desire to see a copie of the letter which Daniell Studley sent vnto him or let them aske master Thorpe a deacon of master Ainsworths Church and desire to see a booke intituled The first part of the hunting of the Fox and there he shall see Dan. Studley traced vp and downe He had a trembling Palsie in his filthy fist when he subscribed the copie of this vniust excommunication Had S. Francis neuer a cleaner fist to strike vs withall than this hand of Daniel Studley Could he haue done vs a greater comfort than to declare our condemnation by that hand which by the best among themselues is condemned aswell as by vs As for this Edward Benet he is to be considered as a horne of the beast that lends his power wealth and authoritie to the maintenance of the beast according to that in the Reuelation 17.13 so that it is not vnfittely spoken by some of master Ainsworths company viz. As the King of Spaine is vnto the Pope so is Master Benet vnto Master Iohnson CHAP. III. A Copie of Iohn Fowler his excommunication with an answere thereto IOhn Fowler was proceeded against by the Church the 28. of the 8. moneth of August 1611. for persisting in these sinnes following 1 For leauing the Church 2 For ioyning with those whome wee haue excommunicated as Christopher Lawne c. 3 For contentious carriage in refusing to speake to the Elders when he came vnto them otherwise than by writing which he brought and would haue them also to answer him in writing againe 4 He despised the voice of the Church refusing to come in publique at their sending for him 5 And while he stood a member of vs he refused to partake in the Lords Supper Daniel Studley Edward Benet Hauing answered vnto the Copie of Chr. Lawne his excommunication we desire it may be considered that therein also we haue giuen answer touching the rest of the men and women that were excommunicate at the same time there being no particular sinne named and obiected vnto anie of them in the copies of their Excommunications which was not contained in Christopher Lawnes and therein answered also And for those that were a month after excommunicate with Iohn Fowler for giuing testimonie vnto our cause in answering this copie of his excommunication we do herein also giue answer for them there being nothing further pretended against any of them than is here obiected vnto him To come then vnto the answer hereof Obiection 1. First they condemne him for leauing the Church Answere It is no sinne to leaue that Church that leaueth all other Churches Obiection 2. And ioyning with those whom we haue excommunicate as Chr. Lawne c. Answere answer 1 Had Iohn Iohnson the Father beene aliue at this time and had testified as Chr. La. Cl. Sa. against their schisme adding this vnto the rest of his supposed iniquities we would not haue feared to ioyne with that Excommunicate while hee in like manner would haue embraced the Communion of a true Church answer 2 These Franciscanes themselues are one Bodie with an Excommunicate of Master Ainsworths companie whatsoeuer they can iustly answere for themselues in ioyning with such an Excommunicate the same may we also and much more answer 3 Againe others of the Brownists themselues doe see the vanitie of the Excommunications executed by Fra. Iohnson Dan. Stud. Ed. Benet c. and doe receiue their Excommunicates as appeares in the practise of M. Ainsworth and his companie Are they ridiculous among themselues and shall they be regarded of others Obiection 3. For contentious carriage in refusing to speake vnto the Elders c. Answere answer 1 If they had beene Gouernours of a true Church and not of a Schismaticall Societie then might they haue had some reason to haue required his answere as they here complaine for want thereof answer 2 Their manner to peruert mens speeches and to catch at wordes makes that it is not a safe thing for any priuate man alone to speake with their Elders M. Iohnson that sought to * See the letter of Iohn Iohnson art 3. ensnare his own Father and to peruert his words whom will he spare Now writing might haue preuented this danger Obiection 4. He despised the voice of the Church c. Answere answer 1 He saw so much despight and iniurie shewed vnto others in the middest of that Church that he had iust cause to auoid the same answer 2 The voice of that Church is not the voice of Christ but the voice of Schisme Contention Confusion Falsehood and Error and therefore is not to bee hearkened vnto Obiection 5. And while he stood a member of vs he refused to partake in the Lords Supper Answere Let the Reader know that this refusall of participating in the Lords Supper with them was vpon the point of leauing them when he called their Schisme into question and began to doubt of his estate among them In this case he could not of Faith come to the Table of the Lord with them SECT 2. CHAP. I. Containing a true relation of the Schisme Dissensions Blasphemies Heresies and horrible Crimes practised by the Brownists or Separators CErtaine Articles against Dan. Studley giuen to M. Iohnson in their publike Congregation before their Elders to desire his deposition from his office of being an Elder article 1 First for his filthinesse vsed towards his wiues daughter with that most vngodly allegation of Scripture for the defence thereof This particular is of old knowne vnto their Eldership and modestie forbids vs to set downe the manner of it it is so impudent article 2 Secondly for writing a most vngodly letter containing in it many vile and vngodly speeches not meet to proceed out of any Christians mouth much lesse to be written by an Elder of the Church of Christ in as much as writing is more aduised deliberate than speech also this letter being so long that it is supposed it cost him more than a moneths worke to copie and recopie the same being aboue 300 long lines close ruled some of this letter being in most abhominable verses article 3 Thirdly for teaching many wicked and vngodly songs and rimes vnto children when he kept schoole in stead of catechising them and learning them to know God hee taught them vaine idle and wicked songs article 4 Fourthly for disclosing the counsaile of the Eldership to Marie May in some particulars as wee can plainely proue in due time and place This was a principall thing alledged to depose M. de Cluse article 5 Fifthly for his many lasciuious attempts to a young maid now of late with his beastly behauior to entice her to satisfie his owne lust vnmeet to be named To the second and to the fift Edward Tolwine Iohn Clifton Ellen Vpton Henrie Homline subscribed article 6 Sixtly there were brought sixteene articles against him to proue the tenor and course
to cut off my selfe from that their schisme wherein I haue stood with them And though I cannot but expect much reproach and many hard sentences which they of the Separation will for this cause passe vpon me yet my hope is that the Lord which of his mercie hath giuen mee leaue to see my error and his truth will now also strengthen me by his grace to beare the euill speeches which in this case they vse to poure out vpon those that leaue them Surely I am readie to halt and my sorrow is euer before me When I declare my paine and am sorrie for my sinne Then mine enemies are aliue and are mightie and they that hate me wrongfully are many They also that reward euill for good are mine aduersaries because I follow goodnesse Forsake me not O Lord be not thou farre from me my God Hast thee to helpe me O my Lord my saluation WILL. GILGATE About a moneth or six weekes after this when by the mercie of God he was something recouered of his sicknesse he then by his practise confirmed further that which he had written before both by embracing the communion of the Churches which he refused before in hearing the Word and praying with them c. As also by going vnto M. Ainsworths Church with which he had ioyned himselfe before and there openly in the middest of their Congregation renounced his fellowship with them testifying that they were in Schisme and for further proofe hereof did afterwards giue vnto Master Ainsworth diuers Arguments in writing to proue them to be in manifold Schisme and so finally left them quite CHAP. VIII Letters that passed betwixt M. Ames and M. Robinson touching the bitternesse of the Separation ONe point of Schisme which M. Gilgate obiected vnto M. Ainsworth was for their separation in priuate from those particular persons which might be discerned to be true visible Christians euen by their owne confession This point because it is further discussed in diuers Arguments and Writings betwixt Master Ames and Master Robinson wee haue thought it meet to publish them as they came vnto our hands because they serue much for the declaration and manifestation of their Schisme herein G. M. and P. SIr I doe not desire to multiplie many Letters noâ— many words in this one Letter I will passe by therefore your censure Your manner of separation also I omit whether it be like or dislike to that of the first reformed Churches for you haue yrons ynow in the fire about that question Neither will I trouble you about my associates here whom you deeme euill of though they be vnknowne vnto you Onely that one point which containeth indeed the very bitternesse of Separation I would desire you againe to consider of as you doe me viz. Whether there be not a visible Communion euen out of a visible Church These reasons seeme to euince it 1 Whomsoeuer I can rightly discerne to haue communion with Iesus Christ with him may I haue visible communion the reason is because that from visible descrying of that inward communion doth necessarily follow externall communion Neither can other sufficient reason be giuen why we should communicate with visible Churches but only because wee visibly discerne that they haue communion with Christ Now quatenus ipsum de omni conuertuntur But we may discerne euen by your confession of some out of a visible Church that they haue communion with Christ Ergo 2 That which is lawfull for them to doe which are no members of a visible Church that is lawfull for others to ioyne with them in for that which is no sinne in the principall is none in the accessorie Cateris paribus And it cannot be simply vnlawfull to ioyne in any action that is lawfull Quatenus talis but it is lawfull for Christians conuerted euen before they ioyne in any Church perhaps wanting knowledge of the true Constitution perhaps oportunitie to worship God Therefore 3 It is necessarie that before the couenant making which you hold to be the forme of a Church they that are to make it should ioyne together in prayer for direction assistance and blessing yet they are not a Church vntill after Therefore it is not only lawfull but necessarie also that there be a communion out of a visible Church You may easily conceiue the forme and force of this Argument If you answere that they are a Church in desire that is to forsake your position for desire to be doth imply that as yet they are not A velle ad esse non sequitur ratio I will not be further tedious vnto you Fare you well Feb. 25. Your louing friend WILLIAM AMES Mercie and peace be with you Amen SIr because I doe vnderstand by many that you maruell I answer not your reasons hauing had your writing so long in mine hands I thought good to returne you a briefe answere Your reasons to prooue visible communion out of a visible Church follow Though that be not the question betweene you and mee But whether we which are or deeme our selues to be of a visible Church may lawfully communicate with such as be of no Church Reason 1 I deny that externall communion doth necessarily flowe from the discerning of inward communion with Christ which is your first reason for then I haue externall communion with the Angells and faithfull departed this life Externall communion is a matter of externall relation and order vnder which men out of the Church are not Acts 2.41,47 The order set by Christ and his Apostles is that such as receiue the word and are to be saued ioyne themselues foorthwith vnto the Church and a large remnant it is of the confusions which Antichrist hath brought into the worlde that men fearing God should remaine out of the true Church For the further cleering of these things If an innocent person in mine absence be excommunicated from the Church vpon the testimony of two or three yet will I for order sake and so am bound forbeare communion with him till I haue manifested his innocencie to the Church On the other side Though I know some great wickednesse by a brother which he denies and I can not prooue I must still for order sake keepe communion with him in the Church till God discouer him It is euident therfore that in cases I am both to forbeare communion with a godly man till we be orderly ioyned together and to keep communion with a wicked man till we be orderly dis-ioyned Adde vnto these things that vpon this ground I may also lawfully admit one out of the Church to the Lords Supper to the choise of Officers censuring of offendors And all other exercises of externall communion if by the iudgement of Charitie I deeme him holie in his person And how can I denie him one part of externall communion to whom I affoord an other but I make a schisme in the communion of Saints and this also may serue for answere to the latter part
pleased the Lord to deliuer him from so great a thraldome Secondly we desire master Iohnson to remember the cause of Geffrey Whittakers and Iudith Holder These being found in bed together and the action being naughtie yet Geffrey Whittakers excused the matter that he did it not to satisfie his lust but to comfort Iud. Holder being sicke to keepe her warme and with diuers words to that purpose as though he had sought to performe a dutie of Christian loue and not an action of wanton lust Geffrey Whittakers in these vile excuses was by some maintained Dan. Studley in speciall manner seeking to cleare him and to excuse the matter But how did it go in the end was not their wickednesse found out at last was not Geffrey Whittakers at length brought to confesse his filthinesse through the pursuit of some of them which are now in master Ainsworths company As Dan. Studley stroue long in vaine for Geffrey Whittakers so let master Iohnson thinke he striues in vaine for Dan. Studley whose leaud lust appeares by his leaud attempt as well as the others CHAP. III. The copie of Robert Bulwards suspension and excommunication with an answere thereunto RObert Bulward was secluded from the publique meetings of the Church December 1. 1611. For contentious and troublesome dealing when the Church was met together for ministration of the Word and Sacraments partaking with * * Natth Sanders another that was thē debarred the Churches meetings for communicating with railers and excommunicate persons and going about to defend his so doing it being then also signified vnto him againe againe by some of the Elders that if he did not rest we would consider what to do with him likewise The thirtieth of Ianuary 1612. Robert Bulward aforesaid was cut off from the Church reason 1 FOr communicating with railers and excommunicates and leauing the sinceritie of Truth wherein he was before and withstanding our publique testimonie concerning separation from the Apostasie and corruptions of Antichrist and such as maintaine them with opposition against the truth of Christ reason 2 For slandering master Studley in some things which he could not proue against him reason 3 For despising the Gouernours of the Church reason 4 For disorderly and seditious walking among the brethren reason 5 For refusing to come when hee was last sent for to the Publike All these are answered as in the former Excommunications The testimonie of the Dutch Church concerning the Brownists WHen as they sent their messengers with some questions vnto the Dutch Eldership they receiued this answere from them That they did not acknowledge their Assemblie to be an Ecclesiasticall Assemblie or a lawfull Church And when master Iohnson and others of them were instant to heare reasons of this answere from them it was further answered They would do it if they saw it needfull or if they found any thing that was worthie of answere The testimonie of the Magistracie of Amsterdam concerning the Brownists THe Magistrates both of old against master White and now of late in suit about their meeting-house when they sought to lay in their action in the name of the Church they were repelled by the Magistrates that are members of the Dutch Church they would not receiue complaint from them in the qualitie or name of a Church or the name of any Elder or Deacon but as from priuate men The Magistrates told them that they held them not as a Church but as a Sect. M. Iohnson his vnnaturall dealing with his brother WE * G. Iohnson his discourse of troubles and excom p. 36. 37 read that his brother George being in extreame want liuing vpon bread and water onely Master Iohnson did then hide his face from his poore brother and shut vp the bowels of compassion against him whilest others insulted against the afflicted and bad him sell his Bookes his Couerlet and his Cloke also as others witnesse Doth excommunication breake the bond of nature and dissolue the duties of kindred and brotherhood CHAP. IIII. More of the wickednesse of Studley translated out of the Dutch THat the English Reader be not altogether debarred from the knowledge of the Dutch storie concerning the notable exploits of this famous Franciscan D. Studley let him know that herein is described 1. his memorable wrestling with his wiues daughter his breathlesnesse his blushing his abashment his daughters colour 2. M. Hintons trouble for the construction of it 3. The pensiuenesse weeping and crying of Studleyes wife 4. Studley his rising out of his bed and going into his daughters slap-camer to kisse her to shew that he loued his daughter for his wiues sake 5. His punching of his wife with knees and elbowes vpon her admonition and counsaile she gaue him 6. The deuise betwixt Mistresse Hinton and the Mother to chastise the daughter that had occasioned her Mother so many beatings 7. Studley his proceeding vnto further dalliance 8. The blew eye that Studley gaue his wife 9. His respect of the daughter aboue the Mother 10. The repentance that Studley his wife was brought to for complaining vnto one that was not of their Church and the many stripes that she receiued for the same 11. The feare of Studley his wife 12. The knowledge that others had of his dealing 13. His mocking of his wife Those persons which are figured out vnto vs by the vncleane creatures vnfit to be sacrificed to be eaten or to be touched may not be retained in office in the Church because those that by office beare the vessels of the Lord ought to be cleane Esay 52.11 whereas on the contrarie those persons are a meanes to defile and pollute euery vessell that they touch Leuit. 11.32 But Daniel Studley is such a person as is figured out by those vncleane creatures of all sorts Vers 4. For to speake of the foure-footed beasts and first of them which chew the Cud and doe not diuide the Hoofe he is like vnto the great Camell in respect of the great vncleannesse aboue noted and therefore to retaine this Camell in the dignitie of an office euen then also when those which did but heare the Word of God preached in other true Churches are not retained in Communion What is it else but with those partiall and blind guides to straine out a Gnat and swallow a Camell Matth. 23.24 Vers 7. Againe of those beasts which diuide the Hoofe but chew not the Cud he is like the filthie Swine for that although by his repentance he seemed to be washed from his former vncleannesse he hath yet now of late like the Swine returned to wallow himselfe in the same mire of vncleannesse with other maides according to the true Prouerbe 2. Pet. 2.22 Vers 9. 10. For vncleane creatures in the waters hauing not sinnes and scales first hee is like vnto the slipperie Eele without scales for what wickednesse is there which by his slipperie shifts and windings he knowes not how to excuse and couer Is it
of your proofe touching visible Churches for they haue not onely internall communion with Christ but externall also in the order which hee hath set For which wee stand and for the want of which alone wee withdrawe our selues as wee doe in this case not daring to breake Christs order for mens disorder Reason 2 The summe of the second Argument is That because it is lawfull for some such as are not yet members of a true Church to pray therefore others of a Church may ioyne with them in prayer I doe first answer That men in a Church are bound to and from many things wherein men not in the Church may vse more libertie and vppon the same ground you might more soundly argue thus Because two or three persons excommunicated vppon false testimonie may pray together and therefore the brethren of the Church may forthwith pray with them Though prayer bee in it selfe a lawfull thing and they holie in theyr persons that perfourme it yet it is vnlawfully perfourmed out of the Church in which men ought to bee and therein to vse it So that although there bee neyther Vitium personae nec vitium rei Yet is there Vitium ordinis relationis and this externall religious order and relation is the Church-order and religious communion a worke doth presuppose religious vnion of persons Reason 3 Touching men ioyning in prayer before they enter couenant and so before they be in a Church whence you doe take your third Argument I doe answere First for that there is not the like reason of them and vs which are or take our selues to bee in the order of an established Church They then breake no order though wee should Secondly such persons are ioyned in will and purpose at the least the which is accepted as the deed 2. Corinth chap. 8. verse 12. though the outward ceremonie bee not as yet performed So is Abraham said to haue offered vp Isaack Hebrewes chapter 11. verse 17. and Priscilla and Aquila to haue laied downe their owne neckes for Paules life Rom. chapter 15. vers 3 4. Which notwithstanding they did onely in will and purpose Your axiom à velle ad esse non sequitur ratio hath his vse especially in rebus naturalibus But the vrging of it thus absolutely in matters of religion tends to depriue the Church of her greatest spirituall comfort Lastly consider the couenant in concrete and prayer is a part thereof And when men are so met with a purpose to vnite and do beginne prayer for the sanctification of it They are in the doore comming into the house and not without The Iewes were not to haue religious communion with persons vncircumcised and yet I doubt not but when a godlie Proselite was to be circumcised they might lawfully ioyne with him for the sanctification of the Ordinaunce I cease further to trouble you and doe heartily salute you in the Lord God wishing you from him all prosperitie and in him resting Leyden this second of the weeke Your louing friend IOHN ROBINSON SIr I did maruell indeed at your silence when an answer was promised do no lesse maruell at this your answer that being so deliberate it is no more sound and pertinent As for the state of the question it was set downe in your owne wordes thus in the thesis Whether there be visible communion out of a visible Church not to bee denyed or dissembled in this your answere as it is more than once when you would draw it to an hypothesis In the answer to the first Argument your denial is very strange the reasons of it as weake The Scripture doth euery where reason from that communion which we haue with Christ to that which we ought to haue one with another Our best Diuines doe put one in the definition of the other Sanctorum communio est actus officium singulorum membrorum inter se ez vnione formali cum Christo spiritu ipsius profluens the sence is acknowledged by all good writers The words are taken from reuerend Iunius The same sentence is elsewhere by him expressed so fitly for you if you doe not despise it that I hope it may something preuaile with you Ex illa autem societate saith hee communione quam Sancti cum Christo habent omnino sequitur altera haec consociatio atque communio qua membra inter se consociata coagmentata sunt nam idem qui nos adunauit sibi eo ipso quod diuersa membra adunat sibi eadem inter se adunauit quae cum it a sint facile Christianus quilibet nobis assensurus est si imperturbato animo ad haec legenda expendenda venerit non posse quenquam Christianum bona fide renunciare communioni alterius quem Christus aut adâ—unxit sibi aut se adiuncturum spem facit The place note well worth your serious reading Reason shewes the same truth For are you more holy than Christ that you should beate him from your communion whome Christ hath made a member of his body doth not our internall communion one with an other flow from that internall communion we haue with Christ Whence then doth our externall flow but from that externall which wee haue with him or which is the same from visible discerning of that internall Your instances of Angells and Saints departed doe make directly against you for we doe not visibly and particularly discerne of them and their communion with Christ but in extraordinarie cases and at such times we may haue sensible communion with them When the heauenly company did celebrate the birth of our Sauiour saying Glorie bee to God on high c. I hope you will not say it had beene sinne for the Sheepheards to say Amen to it nor for the Disciples to haue giuen the like assent to any worship perfourmed by those which came out of their graues at the resurrection of Christ Your other instance of an innocent excommunicate hath no force at all for your selfe doe not say that it is not simply vnlawfull to haue any communion with him at all but onely for some time nor that co nomine because he is out of the Church but for order sake Now I do not speake of such a necessitie as bindeth semper ad semper neyther am I against the confederacie of circumstances but consider it simply scandall and contempt remoued it is lawfull to communicate with such a one As for that consequence of yours If one part of communion then to all It doth better serue the Anabaptist to exclude children from Baptisme than you to exclude Christians from priuate communion because you will not admit them to some part of the publique He that can spie schisme in admitting to one part before then to all might farre more easily see the same in excluding visible Christians from all if he were not some way blinded For is it not a monstrous breach of charitie to afford no more communion to