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A01041 A defence of the lavvful calling of the ministers of reformed churches, against the cavillations of Romanists Whereto is subioined, an epistle to a recusant, for clearing and maintaining some points of the former treatise of defence, challenged by a Roman Elymas Bar-Iesus-it. With a short discovery of the adversarie his dottage in his impertinent and rediculously deceitfull demands. By Patrik Forbes, of Coirse. Forbes, Patrick, 1564-1635. 1614 (1614) STC 11146; ESTC S114324 93,515 180

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cōcludeth not Neither is shee for this rejected or not esteemed the true and beloved church of God for that hee hath somewhat against her but lovingly therupon exhorted to amēdement And albeit God in his word hath fully revealed what for her accomplishment in grace is requisit yet in this mortal course where we know but in part and prophecie but in part she neither alike at all times is capable neither of all things perfectly at any time And yet the Lord according to his promise leadeth her in all truth for that by degrees he bringeth her on to perfection and notwithstanding of her owne weaknes of all the gates of hell assailing her yet errour lies never so provaile but that she keepeth the name liveth the life of God And in the end victorious over all vntruth she is perfyted in all veritie The Lord is said to washe his church that she may be a holy and cleane spouse to him not having spot or wrinckle and hee performeth accordinglie but so as hee is still purging and cleansing her til fully at lēgth beautified she be receaved in the mariage chamber Neither is she herefore not to bee counted holy because she not only is exhorted to the study of sanctification but also maketh a daylie progres therein He hath promised to subdue Satan vnder our feet Neither question we therefore of his truth herein because we find the enemy not onely standing armed against vs but also often woūding vs for we know that he who hath promised will performe and the work which he hath begun he wil accomplish in his saints Would we accuse a phisicion who had assured vs of p●rfyt convalescing therefore to be skilles and false because albeit finding our selves in the way of health yet before attaining the full point wee had sustained many fittes apparant deadly traunces That which the Psalmist sayth of the outwarde afflictions of the Church may be truely affirmed of all whereby in any sort Sathan assaileth her They have often afflicted me from my youth but they haue not prevailed against me And that which the Apostle vpon his owne experience speaketh of our progres in the strength of the inner man is most true in all the graces of God bestowed on his Church that his strength is perfyted in ●●●●nes and that therefore in patience we have to esteeme his measure of grace in the tyme sufficient for vs. Being assured that albeit we are not yet perfyt yet neither in fighting wee beat the aire nor yet run in vaine but are in the way towards ful perfe●tiō forgetting what is behinde endeavouring to what is before following hard towards the mark for the pryse of the high calling certain so to end our race as therewith to obtaine the crown And if the condition of the Church can be no otherwayes rightlie esteemed but according to that measure which in any of hir membres or in al jointly during her course here in weakenes is fulfilled which in the best degree of any ordininary state is ever mixed with some infirmity mist of ignorance what madnes is this to dream of a perfyt and ful point while we ar yet but in the midst of our journey 12. Now again when in a right sense such as I have shewed it is granted that the Church can not erre what I pray you is our aduersaries avantage herein except that still impudently they take that which is in question For even herby we argue thē not to be the church because they have erred and that both foullie and fundamentally And thus again they fall in a second and their owne ordinarie aequivocation concluding from them selves the boile apostume and excrement of the Church in it and not of it to the true Church and promises proper to her whereof they vainly and falslie boast ridiculouslie pleading truth to be with them because they forsooth are the Church where their right defence were by evincing the truth to be with them which is the life of the Church so to vindicateiustlie to them selves that title 13. For strengthening of them selves in this vsurpation they fal to a third aequivocation The church say they is alwayes visible and in so farre as for some ages no other church can be shewed which was not of their communion it evinceth them to be that true Church which can not nor hath not etred And here they display all the force of their eloquence the Church being the sheepfold of the sheepe the house of God the piller and stable seat of truth would God invite vs to a church which cannot bee seene would he so delude his own childrē as to bid them heare a Church which doeth not speake That which I have already said of the arysing groneth and successe of Antichrist and of the condition of the true Church vnder him and within his compas answereth sufficiently to this aequivocation whereby deceitfully they reason from the visible Church to the truth and true Church alwayes in the visible Church but not alwayes visible in it except in a sort for that the visible church and commō ensigne ever telleth where they are When we affirme the church to be invisible it is not that wee deny her to bee and to haue alwayes bene visible in the common ensigne of publike Profession But to infer herevpon that truth and true professours alwaies in her onely of her are at al times visible obtaine and beare sway it is a secret fallacy Sathan first in open and advoued rage oppugned the common ensigne till dispairing of succes therein he turned course and shape in his vicar of the bottomles pit pretending the Lambe his hornes he tooke vpon him to beare it and deceaved mightily thereby And yet neither thus did the Lord ever leave his owne sheepe incertain or wild whether to goe For the common ensigne albeit caried principallie by a traitour yet ever told them where the true church dwelt even where Sathan his throne was so as comming to the ensigne tanquam ad op●rtunum inquirendi exordiū as to a cōvenient entrie to inquire by albeit they did finde both the holy Citie and Court of the Temple trodden vnder foot of the Heathen yet stepping inward there never wanted two olives and two candlestickes in the Temple And thus still also the true church did speak but so as amidst Antichrist his vsurpation while hee seemed without controlment to brooke all and that vnder pretence of the Lambe his hornes nothing was heard in the holy Citie and Court of the Temple but the Dragon his mouth albeit the two witnesses still prophecied and a 144000. sealed and secret ones cleaving constantlie to the Lambe on mount Sion while all the earth followed the beast and worshipping before the throne beastes and elders had a powerfull plentifull dispensatiō of grace like the roare of many waters the noise of strong thundrings and so
not so fall from truth As if forsooth where all the members are apart bad infected that togither they could make vp a good or sound body Yea as we have alreadie cleared that the argumētation from the church or promises made thereto to ordinarie Pastors in common is vicious and from the ordinarie Pastours al in common to vniversallie each one is much more halting so here even from the whole Pastours vniversallie to the generall counsell it is still faultie For no generall counsel can be brought but that albeit al therein had erred yet numbers of ordinarie Pastours were besides who might have holden the truth O but the Counsels have a special promise of the Lord his presence as which doe represent the whole church and he blesseth his owne ordinance This is still impudently to oppone one the same thing I denie not but the Lorde hath promised that where or whensoever two or three assemble in his name he wil be in the midst of them And I am perswaded that no number how small soever of lawful pastours hauing God and his honour singlie before their eies and proponing and following onely his reveiled will and in Christian love agreeing in one in that disposition humblie heartily in calling to the Lord did ever assemble themselves or shall at any time convene which have not found and shal not find the truth of his promise That no man esteeme me herby to loose a liberty for men to contemne God his ordinance in the assemblies of his Church more then before in the meane of preaching of the worde But I pray you had ever the Lord so limited him selfe that al counsels shal vndoubtedly alwayes so assemble as they may be ever secure of that promise miserable experience in all ages hath taught vs clearlie the contrarie So as the holy ●an Nazienzen did not stick to say that hee never did see any good effect of counsels And Constantin the Emperour in his epstle to the Synode of Tyrus roundly telleth them● that in all the dealings of Bishops hee could see nothing but an overthrow of al religiō So while men ar miscaried with the spirit of contention bitternes pryde avarice ambition and selfe-love they cannot indeed make the promise of God of none effect which alwayes abydeth stedfast but they depryve thēselves of the fruit therof Besides this where voices are numbred not wayed albeit many assemble with good hearts yet oftē major pars vincit meliorē the grater part obtaine against the best Thus Michaia was not only disdainfully checked but also buffeted imprisoned Thus Ier●mie was condemned delivered to the secular power as a man who was worthy of death thus our Lord Iesus was convicted condēned of blasphemy and adiudged to die Neither giveth this a liberty to despyse counsels as which are the Lord his appointment for the rule of his house but it warneth wathchmen in feare trembling to take heed to their ministry not vainlie while they securely follow their owne lustes yet presumptuously to cry out The Temple of the Lord The Tèple of the Lord. The law shall not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the ancient For evē the Lord answereth such men that the law shal perish from the Priest the counsel from the ancient And it is to waken al Christians wysely and carefully to discerne spirites Augustin in few wordes telleth how rightly both to trye and make good vse of counsels Nec ego Nicenam Synodū tibi nec tu mihi Arminensem debes tanqua praejudicaturus obijcere Nec ego hujus authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarū authoritatibus non quo●um●● proprijs sed quae vtris● sunt cōmunes res cum re causa cū causa ratio cūratione certet that is neither ought I to obiect to thee as a preiudice the counsel of Nyce nor thou to obiect to me the counsel of Ariminum Neither am I holdē to the authoritie of the one nor thou to the authoritie of the other let vs debate by authorities of Scriptures Which are common to vs both and not these authorities which are proper to either partie let matter bee set against matter cause against cause and reason plead against reason 17. The Romanists themselves perceaving well how weake incertain a warrant of truth is either the cōmunalty of pastours or the decrees of counsels which as Cadmus his race each al most destroy other they in end leave al other refuge and come to the Bishop of Rome and doe cōfine al verity within his breast who though he be a Devill a Sorcerer a Sodomit a Simoniak a Murtherer an Heretik as was Ioh. 22. who denyed the immortality of the soule finally a despiser both of God and man yet he cannot erre in Cathedra in the chaire Thus as men mated with maintaining an vnequall match for a wrong cause their last defences are feeblest Wherein albeit not onely they be destitut of all warrant either of Scripture or sound Antiquity but that even a great part also of their owne Clergie are ashamed therof yet their Iesuits Seminaries are stil more then extreemly impudent It is inded true that some of the ancient fathers attributed much yea and too much to the church of Rome reverenced greatlie both the iudgement and authority thereof by reason of so many famous Bishops who still in that seat had both holden soundlie the true faith themselfes and had bene great ayders and conforters of others who in diverse parts did stryve and suffer for it And in this men otherwayes learned and holy were not only too liberal but even beyond measure prodigal because whatsoeuer either praise or prerogative they could have on the church of Rome as the course of things then went it made for the credit of their cause Satan even thus subtillie plowing with God his owne heifer for fetting forward the mysterie of iniquitie which mynding simplie but the defence of the good cause in the tyme these good men were not ware of But such an vnbridled blasphemous licence as the Popes since have vsurped taken to them selves and their Canonistes and Parasites have given them these god-fathers never dreamed of As any who readeth their writtes and stories and with iudgement considereth the cases and condition of these tymes will easely perceave and bee never a whit troubled with the hyperbolick and partly evill vnderstood partly false and supposititious praise and priviledges given to that seat Wherewith when any of the Bishops of Rome being too much tickled did presse thereupon to vsurpe intolerably they were thē oftner then once not only resisted but also their ambition freely checked and gravely rebuked As the headines of Vi●●●r repressed by Ireneus Bishop of Ly●●● and Polycrates of Ephesus the act of the counsel of Chalcedon in favour of the Bishop of Constantinople constantlie maintained against all 〈◊〉 his chaffe and the act of the counsel of
wolfe who yet hath the place of an ordinarie Pastour in the Church more then a true Christian to receave the Sacraments from a reprobate being alwayes an ordinarie minister which sacraments yet by the inward cooperation of God are effectuall to the receaver for it is sufficiēt for an outward ordinarie calling that the minister thereof have outward place and power of ordination albeit he be but a hireling and a thiefe and the receaver of outward ordinarie vocation as he hath al gift and grace from God only whose the work is so is he not tied or sworne to the will or appetit of the outward minister but only to the Lord no more then any minister baptizeth in his owne name but in the Lorde his whose badge and cognissance only we take on thereby and not of the minister thereof So as who therevpon would evince me to have made defection frō the church because I impugne the heresie of him who gave me ordination or that finding him to be a wolfe and both giving warning thereof to others and my self shrinking from him that so doing I either had no ordinarie vocation at all or thē had fallen from it I thinke that any of sound and setled senses would advyse to minister to him rather Hellebore for his braine then any other answer 9. Now then albeit our adversaries be more then impudent to deny our ordinarie vocation and it were in vs but childish simplicitie in such evidencie thereof to grant them any apparant advantage and albeit it harmeth nothing our cause that our outward calling hath in a sorte flowed from the Bishop of Rome whose long vsurpation in the church so litle dismayeth vs as rather it confirmeth vs the more Antichrist being so proper a soare of the body of the church as that he can befal none other body thus though no otherwayes yet even by sight of the soare in but not of the body being sufficientlie assured that certainlie the true body was there yet in so cleare and direct an answer and solution of this question given by Christ him selfe I will never yeelde that the want of ordinarie vocation shal be alwayes a relevant exception against truth and the true Preachers thereof 10. But thus say they a doore is opened to all confusion in the house of God while a liberty is left for each man to vsurpe a calling at his pleasure God forbid Yea we are so farre from this disorder and do so farre both reverence and maintaine ordinarie vocation that in a constitute Church holding the foundation albeit otherwayes divers things therein did require reformation if any man of how great giftes soever yet without ordinarie calling should intende him selfe to be a Pastour we would no otherwayes account of him then of a seditious and turbulent spirit who either fanaticklie presuming of graces would vainlie despise order or for some infirmities and defectes would arrogantlie and vncharitablie breake the vnitie of the Church But if corruption hath so farre prevailed that the faithful Citie hath become an ●a●lot and all her silver be turned in drosse if her husbandmen have become murtherers and her builders have become destroyers if from the Prophet even to the Priest every one followeth after lyes if there bee a conspiracie of her Prophets in the mids of her like a roaring Lyon ravening the pray● if her watchmen be al blind know nothing if they be all dum doggs and can not barke if they ly and sleepe and love to sleepe if her Pastours know nothing nor vnder stand and looke wholy to their owne wayes if night be to them for a vision and darknes for a divin●tion In such a case God both heretofore hath and alwayes may send out men extraordinarilie who comming in the way of righteousnes and in evidence of truth and power convincing the ordinarie husbandes to be thieves and the ordinarie builders to bee destroyers even thereby sufficientlie verifie their ministerie to bee from heaven For an evill tree can not bring foorth good fruit nor a good tree bring foorth evill fruit By their fruits ye shal know thē It is deceitfull sophistrie to reason frō the state of a wel constitut church to a church dead in Baall or contrare frō the first generatiō or as I may cal it regeneration and reformation of a Church from deadly confusion to that which in a constitut or well reformed church is to be observed frō a respective necessity to conclud a necessitie absolut he were a ridiculos phificiō who in the cure of a deadly desperat disease would admit nothing but what for maintaining of health in ordinary dyet wer observed Our maister who most precisely fulfilled all righteousnes hath taught vs by his owne exāple that when the ordinary pastours have made the temple of God a house of merchandise the house of prayer a den of thieves that then by extraordinary motion from him the tables of these money-changers ar to be roundlie overturned these thieves to bee whipped to the doores That which is written of the house of God answering for the matter and that which is written of true zeale of the house answering for the manner And who I pray you did ever yet heare or what instance can bee given of anie reformation of a quiet disordered state but by some more at least in some points then an ordinarie fo●me either in the persons reformers or in their manner of doing 11. Our adversaries answere that if such a case as that is in which onely wee make extraordinary calling to have place can not at any time befal the church thē all our reasoning is vaine But so it is that such a case cā never befal the church Erg● the major or first part of the argument is from our owne ground the assumption or minor they proove by that wherewith compendiously forsooth they alwayes in al things defend them selves and summarilie with one stroake overthrow all whatsoever wee bring against them Namely that the church can not erre For hath not the Lord builded her on a rocke so as the gates of hell cannot prevaile against her hath he not promised to be alwayes with her til the consummation of al things and end of the world we grant all these goodly and great promises made to the church we both reioyce glory of them in the Lord know assuredly that he who is faithfull and true holdeth well his height But their conclusion hereupon in their sense hath a wordle of aequivocations For first albeit it be most certain that God never so abandoneth his church as that finally fundamentally she falleth from truth or is miscaried with errour but that still even in most desperat cases shee hath in her both the light and life of God yet hereupon to inferre at all times and in all and every thing such an absolut perfection as is mixed with no degree of errour or infirmity it
Cha●tage against all appellation from thence to the seat of Rome vpon evident conviction of his fraude in falsifying the actes of the Synode of Nice make more then manifest That I speak nothing of the sharpe check given to Iulius Bishop of Rome albeit topping a good cause yet therein arrogating too much to his state by the Bishopes of the East So as instead of helping the truth his ambition gave the adversaries an advantage to put him so to silence as al the sway and authority of Church matters remained with the Easterne Bishops saith Sabellicus till long after Ph●c●● restored it to Rome many such instances the story affordeth But as the Romane Doctours are extreemlie impudent so any broken sentence or wrested authoritie is good enough to blind the ignorants whom God iustly giveth vp to believe lies because they delite in errour giving them therefore heape of Teachers according to their humours Now how far they are destitut of all sure warrant and yet how farre in giddines of mynd and force of the bewitching cuppe of fornicatiō they are carried to maintaine this absurd and monstrous opinion is cleare if it were but by this that they are not ashamed to bring an instance and argument from Caiphas prooving that the Popes cannot erre in the chaire in that by vertue thereof he did prophecy that one must die for the people one of their side goeth so farre herein in a deep speculation forsooth even from the bottomles pit as to iustifie Christ his lawfull succession and right to the Priesthood which otherwayes I warrant you could not beene well maintained he will have Caiphas by that saying in a hudge misterie to resigne the Priesthood and instal Christ therein Thus rather then he should appeare to brooke any thing but by ordinarie succession making our Lord who was neither of that tribe nor of that order but a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedeck to bee successour in a sort to Caiphas And it is the Lord his iust iudgement that who sel themselves to maintain lies they bee given over to such absurd blasphemous suggestions But what a blindnes is this to catch hold of that one word which was no definitive sentence of the chaire but a bloody advyse for incouraging the rest of his consistorie to passe roundly over all points of conscience or equity in that matter for that howsoeuer they could find no iust pretence against Christ yet in any sort it were better that one man should die thē that by the peoples believing in him and cleaving to him the Romans should be stirred to destroy the whole natiō why passe they by these sentences in the chaire whereby all were excommunicated who confessed the Lord Iesus and whereby the Sonne of GOD was convicted and condemned of blasphemie Will they rather subscribe these sentences then grant an errour in the chaire Or if these cannot bee excused how ridiculous are they for prooving an impossibilitie of erring in the chaire to produce amongst a number of execrable and blasphemous errours one reckles worde vnwittinge spoken Neither did the holy Ghost in noting that speech meane any such matter as these men to strengthen their owne imaginations fondlie build thereon But to shew that Caiphas while hee was vtterly corrupted and but set onely on mischiefe yet by the all and overruling power of him who hath al both hearts and tounges in his hand did speake such wordes as howbeit hee neither so vnderstood nor mynded them yet if in vprightnes and knowledge they had beene vttered in that sence which the wordes might have borne and according to that event which contrarie to the speakers mynd the all and overruling hande of God brought about that then they had well besiemed that place which that wicked man did occupy Such a prophet then was Caiphas herin as was the Devil when mynding but blaspemie deceit and murther hee told the woman that eating of the forbiddē fruit they should become lyke vnto God For indeed out of man his fal much cōtrarie to Satans mynd the Almightie wrought that hudge and incomprehensible worke of the manifestation of God in the flesh and making thereby all true believers partakers in a sort of the divine nature And such a prophet for vs let their Pope be as who being continuallie set on lying and murthering yet never prophecieth true but when the overruling power of GOD bringeth some such thing to passe which albeit his wordes might beare yet he neither mynded not willed Yea this example of Caiphas so little helpeth them that thereby evidentlie all whatsoever they bragge of generall Counsels and of their Pope even in the chaire is seene to be foolishe For I pray you what instance can they bring of a more lawfull Counsell or of a Pope more solemnely sitting in the chaire as touching all outwards requisite for the lawfulnes either of persons or ordinarie power then were both that whereby Ieremy was convicted and this againe whereby our Lord was condemned as a blasphemer 18. But as men who disput more for maintayning any way their point then for resolution being sore pressed doe seeke all corners so heere they alledge that howsoever such a decay might have befallen the Church vnder the law yet of the Christian Church vnder the Gospel in so large a measure of light and ample promises no such thing ought to be presumed Wherein besydes an evident halting in Logike is also a horrible open blasphemy in divinitie The fallacie is that from the measure of dispensation of the promises made they reason to the truth of God in performing It is true that vnder the law albeit they had one and the same covenant in substance and the same promises yet not in a like measure or cleare manner of dispensation Now heerevpon to conclude because God promised not so clarelie nor plentifullie opened his grace that therefore he performed not alse truelie what hee height It is first a vicious argumentation and iuxt a contumelious blaspemie against the truth of God For as a true man promising a cottage to one and a kingdome to another is alike true in both albeit not alike liberall so is God alwayes in whatsoever or in what measure soever hee promised His Church was his Church alwayes and truth alwayes was the lyfe of his Church and hee prooved alwayes alike true in maintayning it in a sparkle as hee did in keeping it in a shyning toarch If they answere That they doe not meane that for the common errour of the Priestes Prophets and ordinarie Church-men vnder the Law that therefore either the promise of God failed or his Church perished then wee have all we plead for For what I pray you letteth him Or is his arme now shortened that he may not in the like manner and in the like cases preserve his Church And if in a common apostasie of ordinarie Church-men both Prophets Priestes he yet hath heretofore still had a
Satans throne in it and the vndoubted subversion of their execrable Ilium they cry out a great cry and a bitter That if thus men once depart from the iudgement of the Church what certain warrant can they ever finde to stay on or What guyde can they be sure to follow for finding out of truth So still they cease not to dallie and shameleslie in one sort Wee would not have men to depart from the iudgement of the Church which is the piller and stable seate of truth and without which is neither veritie nor lyfe but howe much we are necessarilie to cleave thereto so much the more carefullie by the right rule of examination to trye and discerne betwixt the Church and the pretending harlot and to this end the Lord hath given vs his word his spirit and in all ages hath recommended them to his owne children as vndoubted guydes in all doubtfull cases so vnder the lawe men are ever exhorted to the lawe the Testimonie David and the Prophets direct al men alwayes thereto they have the Lawe and the Prophets saith Abraham in parables And our Lord for cleare testimonie of himselfe biddeth the Iewes search the scriptures Peter from an other spirit then have our adversaries calleth the word of the Prophets a sure and certaine word and exhorteth to attend thereto And Paul even vpon this that the Church is the house of God the piller and stable seat of trueth and that godlines is a great mysterie groundeth both a reason why hee did write to Timothie and an earnest exhortation to take heed to the reading of the scripturs for that many diverting therefrō and giving themselves to spirits of error and fables should fall from the truth and teach doctrines of Devils We read many warning not to be miscaried with common errors or the authoritie of men yea as I have before touched divers times both Pastors and people in common are taxed for falling away from the word We are exhorted carefullie to proove and try what word men doe offer vnto vs but never in all scripture have we so much as one mine of secure relying vpon the authoritie of ordinarie Pastors without due examination and the iudgement of al sound antiquitie accordeth hereto One of the Fathers saith thus Qui vuls cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia non cognoscat nisi tautumm●d● per scripturas and sone after Christiani ergo volentes firmitatem accipere doctrina verae ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad Scripturas ali●qui si ad alia respexerint scandaliz abuntur peribunt non intelligentes qu● sit vera ecclesia per hoc incident in abhominationem desolationis qu● stat in sanctis ecclesi● locis the place is remarkeable in English thus who wil know which is the true church let him not seeke to know it but only by the scriptures c. Christians then willing to receave the stable assurance of true doctrine let them runne to nothing but to the scriptures otherwayes if they look to ought else they shall stumble and perish not vnderstanding which is the true Church and shall fall hereby in the abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the church This same is yet more plainly shewed in these wordes quum videritis c. that is when ye shall see vngodly heresie which is the armie of Antichrist standing in the holy places of the Church then let them who are in Iudea flee to the mountaines that is they who are of christianitie addresse themselves to the scriptures because when once that heresie hath obtained place in these Churches there can bee no tryall of true christianitie neither any other refuge for christians willing to know the veritie of the faith but the divine and holy Scriptures And the same Chrisostome in the same place Antea multis modis c. before many wayes was shewed which was the Church of Christ but nowe no maner of way but by the Scriptures Thus is cleare not only that the scripture is the sole rule of tryall but that the necessarie reason why only to have recourse thereto is Antichrist his obtaining so farre within the Church as to escape the abhomination of desolation standing therein also wee must runne and runne only to the Scriptures Non enim per alium saieth Ireneus dispositionem salutis n●strae cognovimus quam per eos per quos Evangelium pervenit ad n●● quod quidem tunc praecomaverunt postea ver● per Dei vol●●tatem in scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostr● futurum that is for by none other have wee knowne the disposition of our salvation but by these by whom the Gospell hath come vnto vs which then they preached and thereafter by the will of God delivered to vs in the Scriptures to remain in all tymes to come the foundation and piller of our faith The same father in another place speaketh thus Plantatus est enim Ecclesiae Paradisus i● hoc mundo ab omni ergo ligno P●radisi manducabis id est ab omni scriptura dominica c. that is for the Paradise of the Church is planted in this world thou shall eat therefore of every tree of Paradise that is of all the Lord his Scripture And as Ierome sayeth both pleasantly and pertinently When ever the Church looketh to any other warrant egreditur de finibus suis she passeth out of her owne bounds let any man in whom is left any spunk of spirituall sense conferre these sayings of the Fathers with the dealing and doctrine of Rome now labouring ever to divert men from this Paradise of the Scriptures where only is the fruit of lyfe to a barren wildernes without water and Cisternes of their owne digging and thus making millions to fall in that abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the Church but their soares are seene they shal prevaile no longer 22. They exclame here against vs that thus we pervert all order in God his house making every privat Christian iudge over Pastours and subduing the spirit of the Church to every privat spirit And O how they both please themselves and play themselves in amplifying the absurditie as they think of this point But to calme a little their chear heerein First I aske them is it not a common direction for all Christians to trye spirits and not to believe every spirit Are we not cōmanded to proove al things to hold that which is good Are we not often carefully exhorted to beware of false Prophets While they cannot or dare not though they would gainsay so cleare Scripture they runne to this that the only sure trial is to acquiesce in the iudgement of the Church But shameles men is not this all one thing as if they said the best triall were to ●se no triall at all And what doe they hereby but still assume the question It is
were not refelled by cleare Scripture yet were fitter to bee an addition to Rables or to make vp the last booke of Amades de Gaule then to bee reputed profound pointes of Christian wisedome 32. Thus have I shortlie answered the maine obiections of our adversaries which as an vnresistable ordinance they proudlie plant against our callinges and Church and finding nowe their batterie directed speciallie against that quarter wherein our Lord and Captaine hath assigned mee a station in his service for that by reason of our weak fortification and their great inwarde intelligence they conceave great hope of an easie surpryse on that part I have as becommeth albeit a weake yet a faithfull souldier hasted to the breach with such armes as came to hand That if perhappes the courage of our weake once hath beene in any degree dismayed with the terrour of this recent alarme yet finding the ennemie effronted their heartes may bee thereupon so farre stayed as to stande and perceave that all this supercilious shewe of a fierce assault is but a vaine and weakly backed bravado which to offer vs with a newe and high morgue our adversaries have newlie bene animated by their late supplement of fresh● forces from beyond sea who their cuilliers what disposition they are of is evident by this that they are puffed vp and made more insolent with that which iustlie hath dumped in a deep sorrow all true hearts of both the Ilands and the daylie surmises from them of yet moe doolfull events with the cursed hope whereof they can not dissemble but they are tickled albeit all praise to God yet found false we hope in the Lord shall stil prove yet they clearlie shewe either what plottes they are on or with what plotters they have intelligence or what practises perniciously performed would chiefly chear their poisonable minds And now howsoever I be in a weake guerison not the strongest of all yet so stronge is the truth and that Lord in whose strength and whose cause I plead as I hope that even heereby the deceit and imbecillitie of these their obiections are so clearelie discovered that the judicious and free hearted Reader shall remayne satisfied and even our simple once hearts strengthened against our adversaries high boasting To men of corrupt minds nothing is enough Neither is our labour for any either ecclesiasticke or as they terme them lay persons of that Antichristian body which have receaved the beast his character and are not reclaimable who deceaving and being deceaved waxe worse worse and compassing sea and earth and with lying and murthering to vphold their tottring kingdome madlie mixing all doe evidentlie bewray what spirit they are of but they shall prevaile no longer for their madnes shall be manifest vnto all men As for such whether ecclesiastike or lay persons among them who are in simplicitie of heart and blind zeale miscaried having but the name or number but not the character of the beast we both pittie them and pray for them that the Lord would open their eyes and put in their hearts to come out of Babylon least they be partakers of her iudgements for her plagues shall come in one day even the Lord will cut of all lying lippes and the toung that speaketh proud things TO A RECVSANT FOR CLEARING AND MAINTAINING SOME POINTS IN THE PRECEEDING TREATISE challenged by a Roman Elymas Bar-Iesus-it RECOVERING some dayes since a copy of my Treatise in defence of our callings which had fallen in your handes some moneths agoe I perceaved that it had passed the examination and censure of some one of your ghostlie Fathers if I misdeeme not even the same whose pamphlet against our callings stirred me to the defence of them yet so as amids divers dumbe draughts of a silent Aristarchus there is but one onely open challenge through all Which while he is perhaps a breeding of a bigger birth his weak heart could not keep til with the rest it should be timely borne thinking belike he had theirin so cleare an advantage over me as vpon that place he might be bold to put out some speach thus to intertaine his applauders in hope that hee had also much to say against the rest But if this his glorying Goliath so confidently stepping out single shal be easilie foiled it may well be presumed that with noe great a doe the rest of his dumbe Host may be made both to flee and fall Over a place in my Treatise he setteth this signe ✚ and therewithal this saying agree this and the other places that is marked with this signe My wordes first signed by him are these And the Lord his wyse providence for preserving thus his church in the mids of Antichristian vsurpation while hee appeared to possesse all was wonderfull in that even in time of greatest corruption yet asure accesse and free way was still reserved through Citie and Court to the Temple the Sacrament of Baptisme in substance remaining and the doctrine of the Trinitie being keeped sound Sect. 7. The places thereafter signed with the same signe and in the challenger his conceat contradicting this are two and these both Sect. 10. the first in these wordes Yea wee are so farre from this disorder do so farre both reverence and maintain ordinarie vocation that in a constitute Church holding the foundation albeit otherwayes divers things therein not only for maners but also for maner of worshippe did require reformation if any man of howe great gifts soever yet without ordinarie calling should intrude himselfe to be a Pastour we would no otherwayes account of him then of a seditious and turbulent Spirit who either fanatikly presuming of graces would vainlie despyse order or for some infirmities and defects would arrogantly and vncharitably breake the vnitie of the Church Now that I may the more clearly recōcile any apparant repugnācy betwixt these places I wil first set down as I can take it the challenger his conceaved cōtradictiō thus VVho in a constitute Church holding the foundatiō c. would intrude himselfe without ordinary calling to be a Pastour is to be accounted a seditious turbulent despyser of ordre and an arrogant and vncharitable renter of Church vnitie But the Christian Church since her first constitution alwayes even in time of greatest corruption hath holden the foundation Therfore who at any time without ordinary vocation intruded himselfe to be a Pastour therein he was but a sedicious and turbulent despyser of order and an arrogant and vncharitable renter of Church vnitie I wil not here dallie vpon these words intrude himselfe which in no case can ever be lawfull and may never bee iustly said of any who is truely albeit extraordinarlie sent out by God I come to the argument The proposition of the sillogisme is mine owne I can not disadvow it The assumption that we iangle not about the state of our question must be cleared from equivocation for no question but the true Church elected according