place in your sense and applied it to the purpose For my part I finde a Temple even under the Apostasie measured out and an Altar and some worshipping in it Revel. 11. 1. Yea I finde Angels i. e. Magistrates Ministers and other persons of note whom the Lord would use to execute his judgements upon the Antichristian world Revel. 14. 15 17 18. conversant in it and the four Beasts abiding in it Revel. 15. 7. The Temple then which was before the seven last plagues fulfilled was not so shut but some did enter into it and served God therein Yea that John during this time saw it opened in heaven Revel. 11. 19. and 15. 6. And if Sion and the Temple in your opinion be one and the same thing and both note the state of a true visible Church as you seem to think it is plain that before and under the vials there are acknowledged in the Apocalyps visible Churches and the same true and right unto which Christians had accesse and in which they were conversant You must pardon me then if herein I do not concurre with you that none could enter into the Temple or arrive at Sion i. e. that no visible Church could be found into which men might have entrance and admission untill all the vials were poured out I do rather agree with other godly Interpreters who do understand it of those people who yet for their whole body are clean out of the Church viz. the Jews and Pagans but chiefly the Jews of which it seems no full harvest sufficient to make up a Church or Churches shall or can come in untill the vials be fully poured out to Romes utter destruction It doth not exclude those who were already admitted and entered into the Temple as were the reformed Churches of the western world The second thing which you adde is That we have not yet wholly put off our Babylonish Garments Touching which I shall not say much because you expresse not what you mean by these Babylonish Garments nor wherein they are not put off Only two things I do reply 1. That the retaining of some rags of the Babylonish Garments though it be a deformity to a Church can no more keep a Christian company or person out of Sion then sacrificing unto God in high places somewhat after an Heathenish manner could or did put the Church of the Jews out of Sion or Polygamy not warranted by the Lords first Institution of Marriage put Abraham Jacob or other holy men out of the Catalogue of the ancient and godly Patriarchs or the remainder of some sinfull infirmity in a man regenerate barre him of Communion with Christ 2. Those seven Angels which had the last seven Plagues as they came out of the Temple so also they were cloathed with white and pure linen and were girded about the brests with golden girdles Revel. 15 6. Now what are those Angels but types of those instruments which the Lord would use in executing those seven last Plagues And what is the meaning of their coming out of the Temple but that they were persons belonging to some of the Protestant reformed Churches Now surely as the habit of the members was such was the habit of the Churches to which they did belong For how could they come so purely cloathed out of Churches utterly impure These Churches therefore which are our reformed Churches of these dayes had cast off their Babylonish Garments and were clad with fine linen which is the righteousnesse of the Saints The third thing you say is That the time for visible marriage is not yet come untill all enemies be brought down and God only reign and that therefore all visible Church-marriage since the Apostasic taken up before the time being onely founded on the will name and power of man without Gods call must needs be bestial Answ. Concerning this I say first That it is much the Jews excuse Hag. 1. 2. saying That the time was not yet come that the house of the Lord should be built Whenas the time for building it was seasonable enough and nothing letted but their greater care to build their own houses then the Lords house So say you The time is not yet come that visible Churches should be gathered and married unto Christ in visible manner wheâ—as the time is seasonable enough but that many have more minde to disturb the work by venting fancies of their own then to contribute their endeavours towards the work Secondly This is to make Christ to have been a Widower as it were or a Bridegroom without a known or visible Bride an Head without a visible Body a King without a visible Kingdom for more then these thousand years and how long he is like so to continue none can determine For what is Christs visible Spouse Body Kingdom but a visible Church and none such hath been according to your opinion right and true all this time of the Apostasie nor yet is or shall be untill all the vials be poured out Thirdly This is to make all the reformed Churches which since their breaking off from Rome have been erected or are now in Germany France Netherland Scotland Old and New England to be Antichristian and bestial which in all moderate and understanding mens judgement will be thought a rash uncharitable and audacious Assertion Fourthly It may as well be said by you That there is no visible Marriage between Christ and particular Christians before the time as that there is none between Churches and Christ For no particular Christian can be a meet Bride for Christ who is not cloathed with pure fine and shining linen viz. The righteousnesse of the Saints And if no Churches shall be found before that time fitly thus arrayed for their Marriage with Christ what sound reason can be yielded why any single Christians can be so cloathed when as commonly they receive their spiritual birth being cloathing and all in visible Churches where they live Now nihil dat quod non habâ—t None can give that which they have not And if no visible Churches can be found thus arrayed it is not easie to imagine how single Christians should obtain it If private Christians may be so cloathed before that time and so fitted for visible marriage with Christ so also may whole Churches whenas Churches are made up of particular Christians and particular Christians are thus cloathed among other ends that they may be fitted for members of visible Churches But to make this good you referre us to Revel. 19. 7. which how that is understood not of reformed Churches in general but of the Church of the Jews when that Nation shall be converted to the Faith by the most learned Interpreters of the Apocalyps I know you well know And for my part though I will not say as he did Malo cum Platone errare quam cum aliis vera sentire yet I cannot but say That it is farre safer to follow so many godly learned and judicious Divines who have
view of all the Israelites so those Books of Scripture though I exclude none which are plainest and most obvious to the understanding of all Christians are specially to be accounted as our pillar of cloud and fire to direct us how and where in all ages we should follow the Lamb Thirdly It is strange to me that you should affirm That the foundation of the Beast doth consist in an usurped power of Church-Discipline footed on mans will without Gods call It is true that what Discipline is exercised only on mans will without Gods call is bestial as you term it and Antichristian As 1. That which for the thing it self was wholly invented by Antichrist not being once mentioned in the Gospel such was amongst others the Popes interdicting of whole Realms for having any service of God used in them upon their offending against his commands and Ordinances 2. And if for the matter it self it were Christs Discipline yet it was managed not by the hands of Christs Officers but of Antichrist and against Christs faithfull servants such was Excommunication exercised by the Pope papal Bishops Commissaries and the like Notwithstanding Discipline nor the usurped power of it cannot be the foundation of the Beast There are three things in Christian and so in Antichristian Religion Doctrine Worship and Discipline and these so answer one another that look what place any one of them hath in the one the same it hath in the other Religion Now none ever did or can affirm Discipline to be the foundation of Christian Religion it is but as the roof or at best but as the wals of it and serves to beautifie or to guard and preserve it It is sound Doctrine in the principles of faith that is the foundation of Christian Religion 1 Cor 3. 11. So it is the false Doctrine of the Roman Church that is the foundation of the Beast and Antichristian Religion And this the Apostle S. John doth teach 1 Joh 4. 23. Every one that confesseth Christ to be come in the flesh is of God but every one that denieth Christ to be come in the flesh is not of God this is the spirit of Antichrist It is in effect as much as if he had said Sound Doctrine concerning Christ his Nature Person and Offices is the main ground and mark of Christian Religion and false doctrine touching these things the principal note and ground of Antichristian Religion Besides the Popes extravagant exercise of Discipline in excommunicating suspending c. not onely single persons but whole Nations and disposing all Church-dignities c. was founded on that false Doctrine which was first laid That the Pope was an Vniversal Bishop Vicar of Christ and the visible Head of the Church Doctrine then is the foundation of the Beast and not the usurped power of Church-Discipline Lastly None can comply with the Beast in the foundation of his estate without losse of his salvation as who doth lie and relie on some other besides the onely foundation of salvation which is Jesus Christ and worshippeth the Beast in acknowledging him for the Vicar of Christ in the Church and supreme Head under him and submits to his Decrees and new Articles of faith But many may and have too much complied with the Beast in the exercise of Discipline viz. Excommunication Suspension Ordination c managing it in a Popish manner whom yet we have just cause to acknowledge and should deal most uncharitably not to acknowledge for the main to have been godly Christians and out of doubt saved Such as were those Diocesan Bishops in Queen Maries dayes Ridley Latimer Hooper c. and Grindal Jewel and others in Queen Elizabeths Reign Fourthly It is a new conceit not heard of before among Interpreters of the Apocalyps and which I cannot imbrace That in these our times we are called onely to separating from Babylon and rewarding her so that upon separating from her if Gods people go further as to set up reformed Churches and gather themselves into Church-order it is in your opinion against or at least without Gods command But First This is a course flat contrary to that which the Lord hath followed and prescribed to his people in former times whose separation from Idolaters and prophane Nations was still accompanied with a present setting up of a Church-society for Gods service and mutual edification No sooner did God call Abraham out of his idolatrous Countrey but he set up a visible Church in his Family teaching him to call on God and set up alturs for his Worship Gen. 12. 8 and furnishing him with some power of Discipline Genes 17. 14. and 18. 19. So when the Lord brought the Israelites out of Aegypt he brought them not out to wander up and down as a confused multitude but within short time formed them into a Church and within a year or thereabouts gave them the Law furnished them with a Tabernacle Sacrifices Ministry and Ordinances of all sorts This did the Jews also upon their return out of Babylon take to be their duty in a Church-way to set up Gods worship in building the Temple providing Sacrifices restoring the Ministery and ordering means for them And when the Jews slacked their hand this way upon a pretence that the due time to build the house of God was not yet come much like as you now say it is not yet time to set up visible Churches or Church-Discipline they were reproved for the slacknesse and vain pretence by the Prophet Haggai Hag. 1. 3 5. And did not the Apostles the like also at the first preaching of the Gospel so call men from Paganism and Judaism as those that did separate from them and imbrace the Gospel were with all convenient speed gathered and formed into Christian Churches to exercise Gods Worship and Discipline among themselves And what sound reason can be given why the separation Gods people are called to Revel. 18. 4. should not be thus presently followed with joyning together in visible Churches to serve God aright and enjoy all his Ordinances but that they must remain a separated people without any Church-order among themselves untill all the vials be poured out that is none knows how long Secondly This is against a common rule for interpretation of Scripture Among which rules this is an approved one That what Scripture doth command the avoiding any thing as evil the same doth virtually command the pursuing of the contrary good Hence commonly those two commands go together Flee evil and follow good Psal. 34. 14. Isa. 16. 17. Rom. 12. 9. and in many other places The reason whereof is plain because as the perfection of a good tree is not in wanting bad fruit but in bearing good so the true goodnesse of a Christian is not in forbearing evil but in doing good This then is certain that the voice from Heaven which cals Gods people to depart from Babylon as idolatrous and to keep themselves from her sins doth virtually call upon them
in which state the Jews could not assemble as in their own Land to the Temple to perform all Gods service but as they were scattered into several Cities and Towns could onely where they were make open profession of their Religion and in smaller companies meet together for the Word and prayer and such main parts of Gods worship And such a one also hath continued under the Popish defection To speak to which Point somewhat more largely I affirm First That there never was nor ever will be an utter failing of Christs visible Church It is prophesied of Christ That he shall sit upon the Throne of David and his Kingdom to order and stablish it with judgement and iustice from henceforth even for ever Isa. 9. And what is this Throne and Kingdome of David but Christs visible Church in which Christ is to sit and reign visibly as David did in his Kingdom and that for ever It is written Dan. 2. 44 That the God of heaven should set up a Kingdom which should never be destroyed And what can this be meant of but of Gods visible Church set up in the view of the world as those earthly Kingdoms were which it should break and destroy but it self stand for ever But if this Church have at any time wholly failed it hath not stood nor doth stand for ever but hath been destroyed 3. Christ is set up by God his Father with power and a command given him To rule in the midst of his enemies Psal. 110. 2. which how should he do if his enemies should so farre prevail as to abolish his visible Church in which he is to reign Besides these are Relatives and depend one upon another a King and Kingdom an Head and Body Husband and Spouse And what is Christs Kingdom Body Spouse here in the world as we have afore-said but his visible Church So that it failing Christ should cease to be a King Head or Husband in the view of men or be a King without a Kingdome a Head without a Body an Husband without a Wife or as it were a forlorn Widower Lastly Christ is the same yesterday to day and so for ever Heb. 13. 8. As therefore of old he hath had a visible Church so ought he to have in these latter times now and for ever If at any time he were or be without it he is not the same but undergoeth a notable alteration in respect of this estate and relation It will not salve the matter to say That his invisible Church never failed and so that his Kingdom Headship c. did and doth ever continue for they are visible things whereby the relation between him and his Church are deciphered and so in all reason point out the visible state of the Church 2. The Church invisible as so is unknown and wholly unseen to men and Christs invisible Rule and Government over them cannot by men be discerned And what honour were this then to Christ in the world to rule only invisibly of which men can take no knowledge 3. Wheresoever Christ hath an invisible Church there will a visible Church appear for where true faith is it will not be hid but manifest it self to the world by open profession and so those that are members of the invisible Church will become visible to the world Secondly I affirm That Christs visible Church never wholly failed under Antichrists Apostacy It was sometimes lesse for the Territories it occupied then at some other time sometime more hid and lesse conspicuous for its shew unto the world but it was ever extant and so extant that it appeared unto men both in particular members and in companies belonging thereto by their profession of the true faith witnessing against errours worshipping God and suffering for the Gospel though not so acknowledged by the Antichristian rabble 1. There were two Witnesses of Christ all the time of Antichrists Reign Revel 11. 3. and what were they but a company of Preachers and Professors which all that time successively witnessed for Christs truth against Popery whose profession as it was open and manifest so did it declare to the world that Christ had a company which professed his truth and that they did belong thereunto 2. There were Saints so manifesting themselves by life and profession so discovered by the Beast and Whore by their opposition which they made to their wayes against which the Beast made warre and overcame them Revel. 13. 7. And with whose bloud the Whore was drunken Revel. 17. 6. Yet so that all Christs Saints were not destroyed but some being slain others arose in their rooms or continued other where so still to uphold the profession of the Gospel Now where visible Saints are as we do see here were under Antichrist that professe true religion and worship there is a visible Church 3. There was by S. John during the Apostasie seen on Mount Sion with the Lamb a hundred fourty four thousand Revel 14. 1. whose description is such as sheweth that Christ in them during that time had a visible Church For 1. They had their fathers i. e. Gods name written in their fore heads vers. 1. that is they made open profession of his true Religion 2. They did exercise themselves in singing before the Throne the Elders and the Beasts vers. 3. And what is that but that they worshipped God together in holy Assemblies 3. They were not desiled with women ver. 4. but were virgins that is they kept themselves from being polluted with the spirituall whoredom I mean the Idolatry of the times And now tell me Are not such companies as openly professe true Religion worship God in holy meetings and preserve themselves from common Idolatry visible Churches what else can you make of them Surely they are neither Synagogues of Satan nor confusions of Babylon Lastly There was a Temple during the time of the Apostasie in which also there was a company that did worship Revel. 11. 1. And what was this but the true Church of Christ and the same visible For it was measured Now measurement is of things visible not invisible Again while the Apostasie lasted Saint John saw a Temple in which Angels were conversant and with them no doubt other worshippers Revel 14. 15 17 18. Yea he saw this Temple opened Chap. 15. 5. in heaven before the seven last plagues were fulfilled It seems that for the greatest part of the Apostasie this Temple was somewhat secret and hidden yet not so but that it was visible also in some that worshipped in it and some open Professors of the Gospel But withall it became more open and manifestly visible upon the Reformation which was made by those worthy and godly Ministers whom God raised some hundred years ago and so hath been ever since more visible and conspicuous so far is it from being utterly lost and extinct Object But all this while onely asealed elect number remained Rev. 7. 3 c. 9. 4. Answ. If you mean that there
to seek our Sion and to joyn with her in society for the worship of God which Sion if it were not then extant or to be enjoyed the command were vain and their endeavour would be to no purpose Thirdly This conceit and course doth cast a foul blot of gross ignorance or rash presumption upon all reformed Churches which upon their breaking off from Rome have not contented themselves with a bare separation but did also set up evangelical Churches opposite to the Roman for Doctrine Worship and Discipline some lesse and some more pure and perfect So hath all Reformation been practised in Germany France Netherland Scotland Old and New England of late And what man is he or who be they unlesse they can prove themselves new Apostles or Prophets or have the pregnant word of God for it and build not only upon their own conjectural interpretation of prophetical mysteries about which other godly learned are at a stand who will presume to tax and blemish so many famous Churches and so many godly and learned Divines which were their guides and leaders Surely it is not piety to condemn the generation of the righteous Psalm 73. 15. nor humility to slight the consent of so many Churches of God 1 Cor. 11. 16. Fourthly It is well worth the while to scan the time when this call for separation Revel. 18. 4. was given And if all circumstances be well weighed this call was not proclaimed untill God had put it into the heart of some Kings and States to joyn to invade and destroy Rome itself which preparation is intimated before Chap. 17. 16. and was surely about the pouring out of the last or some of the last vials And now being ready to give the on-set on Rome by this voice they are called on to plague her thorowly Revel. 18. 6. At which time this call is directed to such of Gods people as might then be hidden in that idolatrous City or the adjoining Territories by a personal flight to forsake her and those places of danger and provide for their safety Which things considered it is not clear that the time of this call is yet come since we see small preparation made as yet or intended by Christian States or Princes against Rome the Throne of the Beast or Italy his Nest and Fortresse And how long it will be ere this be effected onely the Lord knows I am sure that most accounts that learned men have hitherto made of these things have missed and they are in a mist about the three or four last vials not being able certainly to unfold them So that if you have no other ground for your separation then that call as you produce none other you are in danger to prevent the due time of separation and to do all you do in it meerly upon your own will without Gods call As for the spiritual separation made by Protestant Princes and Churches from Rome in Doctrine and Worship as they had a warrant for it from this call the reasons whereof being such as belong to all times and persons not to partake in Romes sins do sufficiently enforce it so had they pregnant grounds for it also from other general commands to flee Idolatry and set up Gods Worship I may last ask Why you and your company go farther in your practice then bare separation For if by separation Revel. 18. 4. you understand a separation meerly negative to be meant as you needs must to make it serve your turn by what warrant do you on the Lords-day celebrate holy Assemblies and exercise the main parts of Gods Worship by your selves and in opposition to our publick Assemblies which you account bestial For this kinde of separation allows no such practice but confines it self to an abstaining from all communion in the publick Worship if corrupt and so farre as it is corrupt But if it be a positive separation that the godly are called to as your practice doth interpret it then nothing lets but others also may set up Churches for the enjoying of all Ordinances as well as you for some And surely when the Apostle did urge such a call for separation unto the Corinthians 1 Cor. 6. 17. out of Isa. 52. 11. he did conceive that the Christians of Corinth were not onely called barely to separate from Paganish Idolatry but also to join together in the true worship of God Fifthly Here follow some things which I apprehend to be some reasons of this your Assertion touching this point of separation 1. We are yet you say but in our journey to Sion visibly separated and not arrived thither and so may not take on us to set up Sion-like Churches Answ. But why are we but on our journey unto Sion visibly separated when as the Apostle describeth this to be the estate of all imbracing the Gospel that they are come to Mount Sion and the celestial Jerusalem and the same not meerly invisible but visibly separated from the impious world Heb. 12. 22. 2. St John saw many thousands Revel. 14. 1. walking with the Lamb on Mount Sion and the same visible as seen by John during the time of the great Apostasie and before the time of this more publick departure and Reformation And why may not our late reformed Christians be ranged among those thousands and admitted to the same Mount Sion with them since in their Reformation they have endeavoured to conform unto them 1. In bearing their Fathers name in their forehead by an open profession of Religion 2 In restoring an orderly performance of Gods Worship by the Ministery and Church-assemblies as they praised God before the four Beasts and the Elders 3. In ascribing their redemption only to God and praising him for it which is meant by the new Song those hundred fourty four thousand did sing 4. By cleansing themselves from Popish Idolatry as those kept themselves virgins and undefiled 5. By holding forth the practice of holinesse as in the mouths of the other there was no guile 3. Admit that we be but in our way to this Sion what lets but that we may set up and use all Gods Ordinances as well as some in this our journey The Israelites whenas they were but in their way to Canaan had all Gods Ordinances set up amongst them and made use of them more or lesse as their unsetled estate and sudden occasions of removing would give leave What you seem elswhere to conclude to this purpose from the Jews bringing along the Temple-vessels with them from Babylon but not officiating with them in their way shall in its place be considered About these matters you referre me to Revel. 15. 8. where we read that the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God c. that none could enter into it untill the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled From whence it seems you would conclude that we are not yet come to Sion Answ. I wish you had made the argument your self opened the