himself and the Conformists of farr greater esteem in this church then the Reformists Whether this be not a playne schisme and Mr Bern a factious person thus to carry hâ—mselfe in a church let himselfe say as also whether he be not fâ—r this ipso â—acto excommâ—nicated by force of theâ—r own Canon which sayth Whosoeuer shall hereafter separate themselues from the Communion of Saincts as it is approued by the Apostles rules in the Church of England and combine themselues together in a new brotherhood accounting the Christiâ—ns who are conformable to the doctrine gouernments rites and ceremonies of the church of England to be profane and vnmeet for them to ioyne with in Christian profession let them be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Archbishop after their repentance and publick reuocation of such their wicked errors Into like danger doth he come by Canon 11 and 12. The il meanes by which our cause is mainteyned he makeâ—h to be strange expositiâ—n of scripture c. First Mr Bern. here walketh still in the Papists steps who obiect the like vnto the Protestants Let an indifferent reader say they peruse the learnedst book of these reformers and he shall see in them false allegations of Fathers corruptions of scriptures fathers and councels c. Secâ—â—dly I answer our expositions may seeme strange to such as are themselues strangers from God but the Godly wise can discerne to whom if they haue read our books I leane the iudging of this probability Now thâ—s old calumniatioÌ„ which SataÌ„ layd vpoÌ„ the Sainct how truly Mr Bâ—rn hath layd vpon vs let his proofs shew which are in these two particulars First that one of us sayth All the truth is not taught in the Church of Eâ—gland and to proue this Act. 20 21. is cited Which one of vs thus citeth Act. 20 and where Mr Bern. nameth not Good cause we haue to suspect his faithfulnes for in his book he chargeth vs with some errors which we hold not as after shall appear And he that would so iniury the whole what may we think he wâ—ll doe for a part I suppose therefore the party cited that scripture to proue the whole truth ought to be taught which because it may be questioned whether it be needfull at all times therefore the Apostles example is brought As for the Priests of England 〈◊〉 they preach not the whole truth is proued by their dayly practise who balk many truthes touching the church ministery worship governmenâ— c. as all that obserue their doctrines know very well It is proued â—lso by the lawes and canons of their church which excommunicate â—ll such as shall by the truth reproue the falsehoods and abominations that are among them as before in this treatise is shewed And Mr Bern. is very silly if he exspect any scriptures to proue what is now taught in his church Furthermore if it be granted him that Act. 20. were by some one of vs alleged for the purpose he pretendâ—th yet it is no more lâ—kelihood that our cause is evill then that his brethrens cause and plea against vs is evill for they without all doubt doe allege scriptures for to proue things done in Engl which it is not posible by the scripturs for to shew See before in this book pag. 43. c 44. But what speak I of others Mr Bern himsefe is fayn to vse such colours els would the glory of his church soon fade for in the 48 page of his book he allegeth God for witnes that they are his people 1 by giuing them his word Psa 147.19 20. 2 by his effectuall working thereby Ier 22 22 therefore there is the voyce of the sonne of God Ioh. 5.25 c. If these be found and sufficient proofs that England hath Gods word because Israel had it and so in the rest then why may not men allege like Scriptures and proofs against them saying They are stayned with their own works and goe a whoring with their own inuentions Psal. 106 39. from the Prophets of Ierusalem is hyprocrisie gone forth into all the Land Ier. 23.15 I haue not sent these Prophets sayth the Lord yet they ran c. Ier. 23.21 and the like So then Mr Bern. must eyther bring better reasons for himselfe or els he may blush to blame others for that wherein himself is more faulty then they if they be faulty at all The other particular which he specifieth is that places setting forth the inuisible church c. we bring to set forth the visible church by as namely 1. Pet. 2.9 10. But Mr Bern. shewes his reader no reason at all why that Scripture must be vnderstood of the inuisible church as he Sayth and it is an easie matter for him to find faults without reasoÌ„ in any maÌ„s writing That place of Peter as the wise reader may perceiue Speaketh of and to the visible or Sensible church for th' Apostle wrote to the visible christians the strangers that then dwelt in Pontus Galatia c. and this which he speaketh to them in Chap· 2 9.10 is as Moses of old spake to the visible church of Israel Exod. 19 6. Againe he mentioneth the end of their calling to this dignity vidz to shew forth the vertues of him that had called them out of darknes into his maruelous light which whether it appertaynes not to the visible church I leaue it for euery true member thereof to iudge And such as these are the exceptions that D. Allison to whome he referreth us tooke heretofore which because they are vnworthy a Dr. of Diuinity we haue though best to passe by as vnworthy of reply till further occasion The 4. likelihood is that we haue not the approbation of any reformed churches Churches for our cause This is much like his first probability before answered and seemeth to be a mayn propp to vphold the church of England which loue to make flesh their arme The reader may see this poynt thrise vrged before in this book and thrise answered I referr him also to our Letters vnto Mr Iunius whome Mr Bern. mentioneth finally to the Apologie of the church of England where themselues say vnto the like obiections of the Papists thâ— truth of the Gospel of Iesus Christ dependeth not upon councels add also nor vpon Churches nor as S. Paul sayth vpon the iudgements of mortall creatures The 5. is the condemnation of this way by the Diuines of England both liuing and dead c. But this is no other likelihood then it is like Mr Bern. if he had then liued would haue alleged against Christ himselfe when the learned Priests Rabbines and Diuines of Israel condemned his way and doctrine Ioh. 7.48.49 19 7. c. If these learned English Diâ—ines haue confuted vs let Mr Bern. or any shew the scriptures and reasons by which they haue done it if they were our aduersaries without reason as some of them he
appoynted them These Elders called generally Bishops or Ouerseers had charge of their particular flocks and might not goe from them as did the Apostles but attend and feed them These now could not properly be sayd to beget their peoâ—le to the faith as the Apostle noteth to the Corinthians but to feed and instruct them and therefore are not called Fathers but Feeders or Pasters and Pedagogues Child-leaders or Instructeurs From which I gather that people must regenerate and borne again before they may be admitted into any particular church or haue officers ouer them and that ordinary ministers which feed their flocks cannot be sayd to beget them as is the common vawnt of you Ministers in England which me thinks even reason it selfe might shew you For you that are now over your parishes how found you your people at first a church or no church If you say a church then you begat them not but entred vpon other mens labours that were before you if you say they were not a church then you condemn the state of your parishes as they were planted before you were their Ministers Now then to come to your â—roposition In whatsâ—ever churches that is assemblies for so I vnderstand you to vse the werd generallie as the Scripture sometime vseth Ecclesia is such an ordinance of God in publick vse and force by which there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth c. they are true visible churches of Christ This I denie for in the assemblies of the heathens in the Apostles daies as before is proued there was such an ordinance of God sometimes in publick vse and force as by it ordinarilie there was made an vndoubted new birth as th' fruit of th' Apostles preaching sheweth· yet were not those assemblies of heathens true visible churches of Christ. but such onelie as were converted to God and separated from the rest that beleeved not and joyned in a holy communion togither were true visible churches Whereas you assume that in the best of your assemblies is such an ordinancâ— of God c this also I denie for your ministers are not Gods ordinance he hath not called or sent them they execute no lawfull office in your assemblies But your assumption you say is manifest because by that ordinance â—f preaching which is in publick vse and force there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth I answer first in verie many of your assemblies there is no such ordinance of preaching in publick use as you here bâ—ast of but bare reading onely yet those assemblies are by the Constitutions of your church to be reputed as true visible churches as the other SecoÌ„dly in those other other where preaching is I deny that there is ordinarily madâ— an vndoubed new birth Your proof is because thâ—re do ordinarily appear in many the undoubted fruites and testimonis of Gods spirit c. I answer first if this be so yet what will these many help the moâ—t and greatest â—umber in whom such fruits appear not When many of the hethens beleeued the Apostles word did their beleef bring the other that beleeued not into the church did not the Apostles separate the beleeuers from the rest and teach them to come from among them Yet you for the faith of some will vnite all the assemblie vnto Christ and his church contrary to the Apostles practise and to all the scriptures Secondly I deny that there doth ordinarily appear in many such vndoubted fruits of Gods spirit after your ordinary preaching as for which we may esteem them true visible churches Some fruites I knâ—w there doe appear so doe there among the Papists yea they take occasion for such things to reproch you that there follow not so many good works after your preaching as after their doctrine but among neyther of you are those fruits seen whâ—ch by the testimonie of scriptures will proue you true visible churches So we haue here but your bare affirmation to rest vpon and though I might thus end with as bare a deniall tâ—l you bring further proof yet for to help the reader I wil shew that ordinarily there appeareth not a new birth after your preaching Because of your publick idolatrous estate whereâ—n you stand subiect to Antichristian Prelatâ—s and canons whiles you haue your publick worship after the Romish idolatrous manner and are stil comming led in one bodie with the profane and serâ—ents seed with many other evils among you which plainly shew you want the new birth and are stil in your old mothers womb This the scriptures which you allege in your proposition will confirme for the Apostles shew Iam 1 18 1 Pet 1 23. that Christs church is a people begotten of God with the word of truth that is the Gospell but your church was first begotten gathered constituted ordered and is still continued by the Magistrates word and authority which if it did not inforce the people the estate wherein you now stand would soon be changed your church dissolved and eyther be better or Worse And where you learned so to inforce fâ—â—th and constrein men to be members of your church I can not tel vnlesse you follow Mahomets doctrine who taught that men should be compelled to the faith by warr and sword Againe the Apostle addeth this for a testimony and end of our new birth that we should be as the first fruitâ— of Gods creatures This men are not till they be as was Israel hallowed to the Lord Ier 2 3 which was by separation from the world Levit 20.26 and a willing covenant with the Lord Exod. 19.5 6.8 Dâ—ut 26 17 18 19 And that the like must be of vs Christians an other scrâ—pture confirmeth saying These are they wâ—iâ—h are not defilâ—d with women for thâ—y are virgins this implyeth a seâ—arâ—tâ—on from the world â—hâ—sâ— fâ—llow the Lamb whithâ—rsoeuer he goeth this argueth a couenant and communion with Chriâ—t and in the next words both poynts are repeted these are 1 bought from men being the first fruits 2 â—nto Gâ—d and to the Lamb after this followeth the fruit and in their mouth 〈◊〉 found no guile for they are without spot before the throne of God Whereas therefore you haue stood so long against vs for separation and would mainteyn a meer confusion of all sorts of people in a Câ—â—rch vpon an imaginary separation made in the clowdes of your own fansies whiles outwardly and indeed you are one body with the wicked you are vndoubtedly â—ot yet borne a new your Church hath not strength to bring forth your ministers are vnskilfull midwiues and the saying of the Prophet coÌ„cerning the people of Ephraim is verified also vâ—oÌ„ your people be is an vnwise son els would be not stand still such a time even in the breaking forth of the childâ—en Hos 13 13. The 4. Argument IN what churches soeuer all things needfull to saluation by publick authoryâ—y and gâ—nâ—rall approbation are ordinarily and
vnderstood of the ordinary cathedrall parish assemblies of England which all are by one line For defense of these churches Mr Bern. refers the reader to an other treatise after and so doe I to the answer of the same following Yet least he should seem â—o say nothing Mr Ber excepteth 1 That they haue no false head for they hold Iesus Christ. I answer so might Ieroboam haue pleaded for himself his people that they had no false head but the true God which brought them out of the Land of Aegypt Yet were they a false church The Papists Papists and Anabaptists at this day hold and professe Iesus Christ yet such errors are among them as Christ in deed is deneyed the parishes of England professe him also but such is their estate otherweise that they haue him not truly for a head prophet priest or king vnto them as befor is proued But it is yenough for Mr Bernard to affirme without proofe and correction with him is a needfuller argument in this case tâ—eÌ„ iâ—struction For when the Priests liâ—s preserue not knowledge how should men be answered but by the gaole or gallowes 2. The matter sayth he is not false and to shew this he noteth a difference between No matter true matter and false matter No matter are thâ—y which make no profession of Christ at all as Iewes Turks and Pagans True visible matter are all such as openly professe this mayn truth that Iesus the sonne of Mary is the sonne of God Christ the Lord by whome onely alone they shal be saued And false matter is contrary to this true matter I answer this false matter is very rawly set down for being contrary to the former true it may imply Iewes and Turks whome he made no matter and then it confoundeth his own distinction But if he mean that they which professe not Christ rightly and truely as he setteth downe are a false matter then say I â—t will euince the matter of their Churches to be false seing there is not aright and true profession of Chrâ—st made by their parishes But Mr Ber. leauing out this word rightly truly tels vs they all professe this fayth as is apparent 1 by the doctrine of their church vidz that in the Harmony of Confessions 2 by the same publickly preached 3 by the same mainteyned by their lawes writings and blood of holy martyrs I answer if all this were granted yet will it not proue Mr Bernards purpose for some may write and preach the truth the Magistrate may establish it by law and some may seal it with their blood and yet not al the nation be a true matter for Christs church except they also make lâ—ke profession Which that the parishes of England doe not the profanenes of the multitudes shew But least I be thought to speake of envy let vs hear the testimony of their own ministers and such as were no fauourers of vs at all as their malicious writings of vs sheweth Mr Nichols esteemed a forward preacher among them sayth We finde by great experience and I haue now fiue and twenty yeres obserued it that in those places where there is not preaching and priuate conferring of the Minister and the people the most part haue as litle knowledge of God and of Christ as Turks and Pagans To confirme this he giues vs an example in his own flock For I haue been in a parish sayth he of fowr hundred communicants and maruelling that my preaching was so little regarded I tooke vpon me to conferre with euery man and woman before they receiued the communion I asked them of Christ what he was in his person what his office how firme came into the world what punishment for sinne what becomes of our bodies being rotten in the graue and lastly whither it were possible for a man to liue so vprightly that by wel doing he might winn heauen In all the former questions I scarse found ten in the hundred to haue any knowledge but in the last question scarse one but did affirme that man might be saued by his own wel doing and that he trusâ—ed he did so liue that by Gods grace he should obtâ—yn euerlasting life by serâ—ing of God and god prayers c. Now then this being so tell me I prâ—y yâ—u sayth Mr Niâ—hols first for Athâ—isme whether these be any bettor then Aâ—hâ—isâ—s whiâ—h know not Christ And tell me I pray you Mr Bernard whether thâ—â—â— be a â—rue matter such as Christs church consisteth of But you would â—aâ—â— vs beleeue the Bishops and Priests of Engl. are wondrous men for iâ—â—hey write books or preach sermons to the people their whole Dioceses and Parishes must needs be estemed conuerts and profelytes Such effect grace was neuer heard of before since the world began More absurd it is to say that the good lawes of the Magistrate doe make a profane idolatrous multitude true professors but most of all that because some few were martyrs therefore they that killed the martyrs professe Christ truly If these be not pregnant reasons then M. Bernards book is little worth 3. But he proceedeth and sayth The visible form is not false which is the vniting of vs unto God and one to another uisibly This he would proue by 3 reasons 1 because the word is preached and offred to the people 2 Because of the peoples open profession of their fayth vnto the doctrine God working in them a will to receiue it 3 because the Lords supper is in vse among them Sundry scriptures are alleged to shew that thus the primitiue churches were planted and constituted all which we grant but when he comes to apply these to themselues he barely assumes that thus is their case neyther answering any reason of ours to the contrary nor shewing any reason of his own to confirme that which he sayth And what cause in the world what church is so bad but may thus be pleaded for He knowes wel that we except and the visible estate of that church their own monuments records complaints c. doe bear witnes with us that they were planted in this religion and profession by force of the Magistrates law that multitudes are profane that many thowsands want the preaching of the word that they ar al compelled to come to church be baptised receiue the communion and the like and what profession the poor ignorant people make is before manifested If he would heare more of their profession and subiection to the word and ministery Mr. Nichols shewes it thus How little haue they esteemed the godly and learned ministers How content they be with simple and ignorant men How hardly are they drawn to pay duties which law hath appoynted How many quarrels they pick against painfull ministers And how little reuerence they giue to any that are faithfull How they follow their couetousnes and pleasures How they fil al sorts of courts with brawles foolish and
are there thowsands and ten thowsands dwelling among them that neyther so professe nor are members of their churches But if it were granted that the publicke writings articles canons c. are to be esteemed the faith profession of all Engl. yet we deny them to make profession of the true faith for their Seruice book homilies book of Ordination with the impious canons confirming all the Romish idolatries Antichristian clergie and ceremonies that are among them excommunicating ipso facto all that speake against them this is no true Christian profession whatsoeuer other truthes are mixed with them For as the Papists holding many good grounds of religion in generall yet by other additions and contradictions do ouerthrow the truth so is it in England as before in this treatise and in many others hath been proued and after shall further appear Whereas these Ministers confidently deny that their church accounteth any one for her childe or member that doth not professe the faith of Christ in some measure it is nothing but a vayn flourish For was there euer such grossnes in the deepest gulfe of Popery as to deney Christ utterly and not to professe him in some measure Nay it could not be the throne of Antichrist vnlesse he did professe Christ. It is wel known none are baptised among the Papists but they professe the very same faith that is now professed at the baptisme in Engl. namely that which they call th' Apostles Creed So then what haue these godly ministers sayd more then the simplest papist in the world could haue sayd for his church Now in that they make this a colour as if the profane and wicked were not accounted children of the church they shew themselues to be the snare of a fowler in al their wayes yet set they a snare so slight that euery man may breake it For who knowes not that there be multitudes of profane and wicked persons in the land Who knowes not that the whole land generally is baptised Yea the baptisiing of the seed of the most wicked is not onely practised but befended in print by their late Archbishop D. Whitg who pleaded what if it be the child of a dronkard or of an harlâ—t what if the Parents be papists what if they be heretiks c. shall not their children be baptised Yes he will haue it to be a common passage for all uile persons Good and euil sayth he clean and vnclean holy and profane must needs passe by it And at baptisme their seruice book teacheth the priest to say of euery one we receiue this child into the congregation of Christs flock Being thus receiued not one of a thowsand wicked persons are euer excommunicated but are fostered in the church vntill their death and then the priest is taught agayn to say that it hath pleased God to take vnto himselfe the sowle of their dear brother there departed and so he committeth his body to the ground in sure and certayn hope of resurrection to eternal life This being the generall state of the land as all men know what dissemblers are these Ministers to intimate as if their church acknowledged not the open wicked for her children and members Mr Gifford when tyme was yeilded farr otherweise I confesse sayth he that our church if ye vnderstand the whole assembly is ful of al wicked vices There are a number among vs which are of your brood speaking to a â—apist whâ—se euill life is seen wel yenough there arâ— a very great number of meer worldlings which doe not greatly esteem any religion although they seem now because of lawes to allow and fauour our side c. Now hauing sayd somewhat for themselues such as it is they cauil at our description of a church when we say that it is a company of faithfull people that truely worship Christ and reaâ—â—ly obey him This say these Ministers is vtterly vntrue if it be understood of the visible church This is strange What would they haue vs describe the Church to be a company of infidels or a company of faithfull and of infidels togither when Paul teacheth that there is no communion between such 2 Cor 6.14.15 or should we say a people that falsely worship Christ Indeed if so we held we might wel returne to their Church of England for there is false worship more then yenough The Apostle writing to the visible church of Ephesus calleth them Saincts and thâ— faithfull in Christ Iesus Wil they say that this also was utterly untrue Their own Articles of religion in England say thus the visible church of Christ is a congregation of faithfull people c. and is this also vttâ—rly vntrue But let vs hear their reason why this should be vntruth For say they if euery one that the church may account a visible member be truely faithfull how is our Sauiour to be vnderstood when he compareth the churâ—h or ministery thereof to a draw net gathering aswel that which must be cast away as good fish c. Me thinks these godly ministers f should be ashamed so to depraue not onely our meaning but our very words that when we say of faithfull people that truely worship they wil turne and transâ— lace them to truely faithfull and then gather as afterwards they doe as if men may not account any to be members of the church by their outward profession vnlâ—sse they know them to haue true faith which the Lord onely is able to disâ—â—rne Could any reasonable man thus construe our words or gather from them vnlesse he purposely would depraue especially knowing as these men know wel our constant witnesse otherweise who esteeme of all men by their outward profession and walking and haue long since published in our Confussion that many hypocrites will lurke in the church whiles it is on earth But thus it pleased these men to abuse vs before the simple reader Their third reason for their church is that they hold teach and maynteyn every part and article of Gods holy truth which is fundamentall The proof of this they would haue to be seen in their Confessions Catechisnes and Articles of religion published and approued of in their church This reason is like if not the very same with the former which sâ—ake also of professing the true faith as was to be seen in their Confâ—sâ—â—â—n Apologie Articles What meane these ministers to cloy their reader so ofteÌ„ with one dish of meat a little diuertly dressed It is doubtlesse for want of better store Yet this whâ—ch they bring is very vnsauoury for it is not seasoned with the salt of Gods couenant First for that poynt of fâ—ndamentall truth which they so long haue stood vpon and coâ—ld neuâ—r be gotten distinctly to shew what truth is fundamental and what not we haue now these ministers resolute judgement of it thus The onely fundamental truth in religion is this That Iesus Christ the Son of
COVNTERPOYSON CONSIDERATIONS touching the poynts in difference between the godly ministers and people of the Church of England and the seduced brethen of the Separation ARGVMENTS That the best assemblies of the present Church of England are true visible Churches That the Preachers in the best assemblies of Engl. are true ministers of Christ. Mr BERNARDS book intituled The SEPARATISTS SCHISME Mr CRASHAWES Questions propounded in his Sermon preached at the Crosse. Examined and Answered by HENRY AINSWORTH Lord God the strength of my saluation couer thou my head in the Day of battel Psal. 140.7 RIGHT RIGHT Printed in the yeare 1642. A fore-speech to the Christian reader THE truth and church of God by multitude of enemies hath euer been dâ—sgraced and troden down in the world that many which haue seemed to loue and seek after it haue stumbled at the reproch oppotision of the same Yet the godly wise haue vnderstood discerned things that differ It is a great help vnto the weak and simple when the deceits and snares wherewith the adversarie seeketh to destroy the sowl are oâ—enly discouered by the light of Gods word and for this cause haue I endeauoured according to the measure of knowledge and grace giuen vnto me to make answer vnto such reasons cauils and calumniations as are giuen out against that part of the truth which this church witnesseth vnto the world touching our separation from the Church of Engl. the Considerations Arguments first answered were written by Mr Spr a Minister of Glocestershire in them as I suppose the summ and weight of that which may be sayd for that church is comprised Mr Bernards booke hath rather shew then weight of reason as the iudicious reader may perceiue and seemeth to be penned by him rather for disgrace of others then defence of themselues But no better fruit can be exspected from such as rebel against the light which themselues once seemed to regard Mr Crashawes questions are rather to stumble at then to direct the ignorant as hauing neyther weight of argument against vs nor for themselues Yet as by al these meanes the truth is oppugned so by all contrary good meanes it should be defended that wisdome may be iustified of all her children and others left without excuse How weak and insufficient the aduersaries reasons are in partiular the answers vnto them more parâ—icularly will shew Here I will briefly obserue some generall things whereby falshood endeavoureth to vphold it selfe and how it may by the prudente be discried Vntruth hatâ— sought to preuayl 1. By perseâ—uting such as haue spoken against or forsaken her iniquitie iniquitie This the blood of Gods martyrs shed in all ages proclaimeth vnto all men And thus haue the chief Pastors of the Church of England dealt with Christs lambs in these our dayes For hauing gotten into their hands the sword of the Magistrate they there with haue smitten such as with the word the sword of the spirit they could not conuince In which they fulfill the measure of their Fathers for so haue the Papall Prelates vsed to feed their flocks 2. By blaspheming and preaching against the faith witnesses therof For they that hold forth the truth are exposed to the reproch venim of the tongue and many vniust calumniations come forth against their persons especially the principall of them whom evill minded men doe most maligne Also the cause it selfe is often wronged whiles the truth thereof and reasons that vphold it are svâ—pressed arguments feighned and confuted which wer neuer made or otherwise made then the aduersaries pretend and sometimes such articles and errors imputed as from which it is altogether free How others heretofore haue caried themselues this way all records shew how men at this day haue dealt with vs and the truth which we imbrace many pulpits in Engl. can witnesse besides priuate calumnies innumerable and some publicke pamphletes The stinch of their reprochfull mouthes hath caused many to distast the sweet sauour of the Gospell and caused also for a while a dislike in sundry of vs till God in mercy visited and saued vs from the deceitfull tongue 3. Yet is not this yenough but men seek to bear down the truth by writing against and to the defamation of the same with all exquisite cunning and frawd to disgrace it and by plausible reasons to perswade vnto error If any would see this let the generall arguments vsed at this day against vs consonant and agreable to the reasons of Papists other ancient adversaries of the Gospel be obserued 1. The Papists haue continually exclaimed against them for leauing their mother the ch of Rome that bare them crying out the Church the Church the Catholike church and saying that Luther and all the pack of their first fathers were children of their mother the Catholike Church and are gone out from them And when the Protestants obiected her sinns for which they left her it was pleaded againe will ye forsake your mother because shee wanteth perfect bewty or because there is some deformity in her c Moreouer they would allege to proue them schismatiks how in that ch thâ—y had been regenerated and made hâ—r citezens and members by baptisme c that from her they had their first faith and knowledge yea euen the Bible it selfe which treasure their church euer had the custody of and many such like These are the mayn reasons obiected to vs at this day they tel vs the Church of England is the mother of the faithfull that the ministery thereof hath begotten vs if euer we were truely begotten in the spirit asking us where els we were regenerate â—f not in the womb of that their church c. And if we tell them of their transgressions for which we forsake them they answer though there were in our church these wounds you speake of yet doe they not come neare the hart they be not deadly they may blemish the bewty but endanger not the life of our church c. thereforâ— your separation from vs is scismaticall and vniust and many such like pleas they pretend 2 For the châ—rch of Rome it hath by her Mediators been alleged that in her is reteyned the pâ—ofession of Christ authorety of scriptures and Apostolike doctrine as touching all the chief or capitall articles of religion and that the church is to be esteemed by the foundation thereof which is Chrst on which foundation though they that came after builded wood and hay and stubble instead of siluer and gold and precious stones yet haue they not by and by departed from the foundation c. Now who knoweth not that this is the bulwarke of the church of Eng. now against all batteries and one of the chiefest reaâ—ons whereby they reteyn many simple and wel affected people among them and that may be also seen in this book following pag. 43.105 119. 123. and in many other of their writings 3.
more to separate from theâ— being maynteyned in a false vnleâ—se a false Church haue more privâ—lige tâ—en â— crâ—e And we consider that our separation is from the corrâ—â—ptioÌ„ of â— false Church 2. The scrâ—ptures also are playn that we must separate and forsake all false Churches as well as corruâ—tions in a true 2. Cor. 6 17. Come out from among them and separate your sâ—lues saith the Lord and touch no unclean thâ—ng and I will receiue you Reuelation 18 4 Goe out of her my people that ye receive not of her plagues Hosea 4.15 Come not ye vnto Gilgal neither give vp to Bethâ—ven and many the like How rightly then doe you allege scriptures as if they taught vs separation in a Church onely and not out of it also when it is false and Idolatroâ—s 3. Yoâ—r selues are a president to vs of like practise in separating not in but out of the Church of Rome as yoâ— haue dealt with the mother so doe we with the daughter because like mother like daughter according to the prouerb Eze. 16.44 4. You allege thâ— examples of all the prophâ—ts yet shew you not any that â—alâ—ed by your râ—le to seâ—arate in the Church and not out of it Wee are sure they called the people out of the Church of Israel when it was idolatrous aâ—d forbad them to come at their aâ—semblies Hos 2.2.3.4 4 15.17 Amos. 5.5 And how they coâ—ld themselues joyn with that Church from which they separated others is strange uÌ„to us especially coÌ„siâ—erinâ— that Israel in that estate is noted by the proâ—het Azariah to be withâ—ut the true God without Pâ—â—ist to teach â—nd wihtâ—ut law 1 Chro. 15.3 and may we thinke he separated not from that Church The Israelites thâ—n sacrâ—â—iced to Divils not to Gâ—â— Deut. 3â— 17. Chron. 11.15 and wil yoâ— sâ—y the prophets separated not from them 5. The like I Answer to the examples of Christ and his Apostles who as tâ—ey absteyned from corruptioâ—s in the Ieâ—ish Church so were they qâ—â—re sepâ—râ—teâ— from all false Churches as the Samâ—ritans and other like Mat 10 5. Ioh. 4.22 Act. 2.40 199 so theâ—r examples also doe approue our practise 6. Wâ—ere as you would haue noted that those Churches which Christ and hâ—s Apâ—stles coâ—â—unicated with were Antianosaicall as yours we â—ay ar◠〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 tâ—e comparâ—son For â— the Iewish Church consistâ—d it all 〈…〉 the same Leuit 20 21.16 of a people separated not onely from heathens but also from fâ—lse professors heretiks and idolaters and were children of the prophets aâ—d couenant of God Iohn 4.9 Act 3.25 But your Church câ—nsâ—steth â—f an vnseparated people children of Idolatrous Priests strangers from the couenant of God 2. The Iewes then had their sacrifices seruices and solemne feasts according to Moses Law Mat 8.4 Mar 14.12 Luk 9. â—O 2.21 24 and Chrâ—st himselfe jâ—stâ—fâ—ed theâ—r worship Ioh. 4.22 but your seruice worship and fâ—stivalâ— are after Antichrists law translated out of his masse-booke 3. Theâ—r Priests were according to Moses instâ—tution of Aarons line Luk 1 5. with 1 Chro. 2.1 10 their Scribes and Pharisees sate in Moses chaâ—re Mat 23.2 your Priests after the Popes institution your prelates fit in Antichrist chair So they wer not so much against Moses as you are agaâ—nst Christ and that your Church reteyneth not the foundation Christ shal through his grace anone be proued The 2. Consideration 2. OVR Church hath the essentiall notes of a true church able to beget a true sauing faith to worke the fruites of the spirit to make a man a true and perfect Christian and last of all to saue him To the which also Christ hath tied his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world Rom 10 13 17 Mat 28 19.20 Act 20.32 2 Tim. 3.15.16 1. Tim. 4.16 Iam. 1.21 Isa 55 11. Answer THese notes which you propound 1 are not the essentiall notes of a true Church a neyther if they were are they ordinariely found in your Church 1. These are not essentiall notes because 1 One man may haue al this you speake of and no one man is or can be a Church for that consisteth of a multitude or nuÌ„ber of persons it is an assembly or convocation joyntly together it is a body and euery one severally is but a member 1. Cor 12 20.27 That one man may haue all your esâ—entiall notes may appear in Pavls exaâ—ple who was able to bâ—get a true sauing faith to worke the fruites of the spirit and so the rest 1. Cor. 4 â—5 Gal. 3 2 5. 2. An Angel may haue all the notes you mention and no Angel is a Church For example the Angel Gabriel who was sent to giue Daniel knowledge and understanding and preached liuly of Christs death the benifits thereof Dan. 9.21.22 c 3. A wicked man may doe al that you speake of but no wicked man is a true church Iudas sent forth with the other Apostles to preach and work miracles might bring others to saluation by his doctrine though hâ—mselfe were a reâ—robate Mat. 10.5 6. c 4. A true Church is the spowse hous of Christ bringeth him forth a sâ—irituall seed But as God gaue the blessing of multiâ—lying childreÌ„ onely to lawfull maried estate yet often it commeth to passe through hâ—s almighty power and goodneâ—â—e that harlots also are partakers of this bleâ—sing and doe bring forth children so the blessing of spirituall propagation is peculiar to the true Church yet God which brought light out of darknes causeth some children to be borne and brought vp vnto him in false Churches For example the Church of Rome the mother of whordoms and abominations of the earth hath doubtles since she was wedded to Antichrist borne and brought vp by the generall true grounds of Chrstian relâ—geon taught in her many children of God and heyres of saluation This I sâ—ppose your selues will not deny neyther yet wâ—ll you say that Rome is Christ true Church Your reason then is as if Thamer should haue pleaded I am able to bear câ—ildren to nourse and brâ—ng them vp to mans estate c. therefore I am my Father Iudahâ— true and lawfull wife Gen. 38 15.18 c. 2. Now if these were essentâ—all notes which you haue set down yet helpe they you nothing for I deny that they ar ordinarily found in your Châ—rch For though I doubt not but the doctrine of your Church hath saued many yet that is Gods extraordinary blessing not the ordinarie effects of your Church This is the thinâ— you should haue proued by comparing yoâ—r Church and minâ—sterie with the Lawes and promises in Gods word which because you haue not done but onely quoted some scriptures generally which men of all religions may doe likeweise I will by one or two of the scriptâ—res that your selfe here ciâ—e shew how vnlike you are to a true Church and Ministery In Rom. 10.3.17 th' Apostle treateth of two things 1 of calling on
by it Rome had been kept agaiâ—st 〈◊〉 and â—ther â—neâ—ies and that therefore Rome had got the Empâ—râ— of all provinces and parts of the world because it worshiped and served 〈◊〉 â—oâ—s that were in the wâ—rld even the vnknown Gods also I would wish you therefore to minde better ground for the truth of religion and remeâ—ber what is written of the ancient Babylonians after their victories Thâ—n shall they take courage transgresse and doe wickedly imputing this their power vnto their Gods Habak 1.11 2. The long continuance of the gâ—spel among you will make the more agaâ—nst you at the day of your accounts because you yeld no better obedience to the gospell as your present idolatrous estate sheweth The gospell was among the men of the old world 120 yeares taught by Noah a preacher of righteousnes yet at last they perished by the stood for their disobedience therefore though it hath been with you about halfe that time you also â—ay perish if you repent not But note you take it for granted which is yet to be proued that the gospel is among you whereas the true peachâ—ng and practise thereof you cannot endure The sound of the Gosâ—el by thâ— fâ—et of them that puplish peace is this Thy God o Sion reignetâ— â— Iudah keep thy solemne feasts perforrme thy vowes for the wicked shall no more passe through thee he is utterly out off Isa. 52 7 Nahum 1.15 with Rom. 10 15. but Christ reigneth not yet among you by his own officers and lawâ—s as hath been confeâ—sed by the best of your Ministers you keep the solâ—mn feasts of Antâ—christ as your Christmas Câ—nâ—elinas Hâ—lloâ—â—as Eaâ—â—â—r and many the like and the wicked at still in the midds of you and wâ—lk on eâ—ery side yea are exalted which Daâ—id saith is a forme for the sons of mâ—n Psal. 12.8 3. The strange iudgâ—â—nts on â—nimies and persecutors are good warnings for you that you persecute your bâ—ethren no longer we haue seen minded some vpon no mean men â—mong you but wish not to see more we rather desire the conuersion of our enimâ—es 4. The power and blessing in casting out Diuils though it may be questioned whether it be so or no in your Church is a thing that the Papists can boast of more then you See their late supplication 37. reason of religion Secondly such Diuils as are said to dwel in Babylon Reu. 18 2. we playnly see you haue no power to cast out 3 I would wish you to remember the words of Christ Many will say to me in that day Lord Lord haue we not by thy name proâ—hesied and by thy name cast out diuils c. and then will I professe to them I neuer knew you depart from me ye that work iniquity Mat. 7.22.23 5 For your prayer heard both in spiritual and earthly things take heed you deceiu not your selues many years haue you prayed fasted for your discipline and pretended reformation but how you haue bene heard your present state sheweth As for earthly things if God giue them vnto you it is no sound proof that he approueth your praiers much lesse your church Some evil mens eyes stand out for fatnes they haue more then the hart desireth but their wealth is not in their hand there forâ— the councel of the wicked be farr from me God heard the praier of the King of the Philistims Gen 20.4.6 he answered at the sacrifices of the sooth sayer Balaam Num 23 3 4 15 16. c shal we think God therefore allowed of their religion Againe what people in the world is not perswaded and will not say that God heareth their praiers EueÌ„ the hethens would boast thus of their false Gods as Iulian protested that Aesâ—ulapius had often healed him being sick and Ovid that he had often seen Iupiters anger appeased with incense c. See you not then that as the Saincts when they walk vpright before the Lord haue assurance and sound comfort thereby that be heareth their praiers which they make according to his will so hipocrites and ethniks haue also their false perswasions that their praiers are heard and vaine comforts according Vaunt not therefore of your praiers being â—eard so long as you doe works which are to be abhorred but remember how it â—s written whosoâ—uer we ask we receiue of God because wâ— keâ—p his 〈◊〉 and doe those things that are pleasing in his sight Heb. 3.21 6. Your throwing down the church of Antichrist and building the church of God by â—reaching c. is according to the prouerb Clowdes and wind without 〈◊〉 Let your brethren be witnesses Of the first they say Antichrist raigneth amongst you Of the latter that as yet you are scarse come to 〈…〉 a church rightly reformed and againe that the wals of Sion he euen with the ground Yet now you vaunt of throwing down Antichâ—â—â—â—s â—hurâ—h and building Gods The Martyrs in Q Maries daies did indeed by their faithfull testimonies and patient suffrings throw downe a great part of Antichrist church but sithence that time what haue you doen unlesse it hath been to repayr Iericho For many grosse abuses which those Martyrs abhorred are now stâ—fly mainteyned and practised in your church but farther theÌ„ they went haue you not stepped a foot if some of your inferiour ministerie haue spokeÌ„ or writteÌ„ against a few foolish ceremonies yet others of your chiefest ministers haue written as much for them that what superstition your church pulleth downe with the left hand it setteth vp with the right The Prelates and their side haue written against you that seek reformation of Babel and they both haue set against vs that make separation from Babel and yet you heer offer to our consideration how you haue builded Sion But the Lord wil visit both you your building then shall your reword be according to your works In the end you ease yoâ—r stomach against vs as they that throw downe Gods church raise dissention with many moe greeuous calumniations which in your distempered affection you throw forth More wisdome and much more modestie had it been if you had spared these reproches til you had convinced vs of such things But I see how your zele did carie you Ezekiah threw downe the idolatrous places in Israel and reduced the people vnto Gods true worship 2 Chro 31.1.2 c. 30.1.2 c. Rabsaketh reproched him for this as hauing done sacrilege against his own God Isa. 36.7 We by the word of our testimonie throw downe your idolatrous high places superstitions ceremonies false worship and mâ—nisterâ—e you charge vs wâ—th throwing downe Godâ—s church and lode vs with many criminations But it is your selues that trouble Israel for doe we â—eproue you for any good thing in doctrine or practise or haue we left any truth that is among you And if by our testimonie of the gospel dissâ—ntion be raysed and your church rent the
of al men by that word if men eyther will not trie nor giue sentence at all or doe judge amisse we are not bound to wayt vpon them but must liue by our own faith The reformed churches haue been wrâ—â—ten to by vs for we know and acknowledge them to be true churcheâ— and our brethren in the Lord they giue vs no Answer Shall wee coÌ„tinew still â—n boÌ„dage to Antichrâ—st til they bid vs com out What scripture teacheth vs so If they or any convince vs of error or evill and we yeeld not leâ— vs be esteemed accordingly otherwise if we walke in the truth and they will not approue it be it vpon them as they shal answer befâ—re the Lord. Mr. Iunius whom you mention to reply so sharply neyther approueth your Church nor condemneth our practice no not though he were instantly vrged the writings between him and us are extant to the world let the reader judge what both sides haue sayd Your censure of Mr Barrow or scoffing rather at him neyther hurteth him or vs nor helpeth you His playn dealing in reprouing the corruptions of these times you call rayling it is marvel you say not also the prophets rayled on the people of Israel when they vsed sharp rebukes for I suppose you can hardly shew any hard speech that Mr. Barrow ther writeth which the Prophets and Apostles haue not vsed before But if he were overcaried with some seuere speeches in a good cause‘ neyther we not himselfe euer iustified that infirmitie we know that we are frayl men let the sharpnesse therefore be his but the trueth which he sharply teacheth Gods And why carp you at the manner of his writing and meddle not with the matter That book with others haue discouered the idolatries of your church which neyther by you nor any haue euer yet been answered refuted by the scriptures For your self let the reader iudge what you â—aue sayd The 7 Consideration 7. THe great and grosse disorder and partiallity in administring of your disciplinâ— which George Iohnson sheweth cheerly besides the wants of sunctimony and common duties of godlynes which he sayth are to be found in farr greater measure in the câ—mmâ—n professâ—rs of the church of England and saith further that the Dutch churches take you for a most vnquiet conâ—entious and disorderly people Answer THis article you obiect vnto vs vpon one mans report that was for lying and slandering false accusation and contention himselfe cast out of our Church By what rule or word of God can you admit of the testimony of an excommunicate against a whole congregation Reason also might teach you that no man standing against a church to excommunication will ever speake wel of that church in the cause wherein he standeth But grant that this all were true which he reporteth what would you vrge vpon it that therefore Christianitie which we professe is evill so perhaps a Turk or Iew would doe with as much reason as you can conclude that our separation from you is euill Was there ever any truth think you that men did walke in it as they ought or any Church in the world wherein the discipline as you call it was administred as it should Iulian the Apostata that wrote so much against Christ reading the testimonies of Moses the Prophets and Apostles Deut. 9.7.22.24 Isa. 59 3 4 5 c. Mic. 3.9.11 1. Cor. 5.1.2 11.21.22 c. 3 Iohn 9.10 had as good ground to blame the Israelites and Christians for their manners discipline and consequently to disswade them from their faith as you do vs yea he might allege faithfull and vndeniable witnesses whereas you rely vpon a slanderer Finally what ayme you at in all this but to draw vs back vnto your church and there it is like we shall find discipline without disorder or partiallity to weet in your Bishops courts for there the discipline of your church is to be seen Of which we need say nothing the voyce almost of al the land crieth out of their abominations Onely we obserue how pregnant your perswasions are to make vs beleeu that because there ar sinns in Sion there be none in Babylon The 8 Consideration 8. GOD neuer witnessed for you nor gaue testimony of his approuing your separation whether we consider your ministerie or people For hardly can you shew any one person conuerted by your ministery from papistry or atheisme or other open wickednes as by Gods blessing multitudes haue been by ours but onely haue you seduced and wrought vpon the tender consciences of such as by our ministery were first begotten vnto Christ But which is specially to be obserued from your distracted and devided congregations multitudes haue fallen away to euery kind of impiety herisie reigning in the world Answer IF God approue our seperation and our ministerie by his word as we are surâ— he dooth it is yenoâ—gh though our ministery haue not conuerted any Your reason is as if a Câ—inite should haâ—e sayd vnto Nâ—ah God neuer witneâ—sed for thee nor gaue testimony of his approuing thy building of the Ark for hardly canst thou shew any one person converted by thy precahing or Ark building these 120. yeares Our ministery belongeth to our church the assemblies whereof Papists Athâ—ists such like wicked ones vse not to frequent and how is it poâ—sible â—ur ministery should conuert such as come not to heare it If we wâ—â—ld obiect vnto you that few Turks and Saracens haue been converred by yâ—ur mâ—â—isterie what would you answer Yet where you say â—e can harâ—ly shâ—w my c. we can if need wer shew you many that wer sometime profâ—in irreligious whiles they were of your church but coÌ„mâ—ng and heâ—râ—ng by Gods providence the doctrine of our church haue been reclâ—ymed from their lewd life doe walk holily in the faith with vs. It is true in â—eed that our cause hath wrought most vpoÌ„ such as being somtimes vnâ—er yoâ—r ministery had tender consciences pliable to the truth others of more corrupt consciences haue set against blasphemed it Tâ—e â—â—â—â—ideratioâ— of this in any wise mans iudgment wil rather lead vnto â—hen â—rom our cause when the better sort by your own confession do come vnto vs the worser and refuse remayn stil with you Your last poynt which you would haue specially to be obserued that multitudes haâ—e fallen from vs to every kind of heresie and impietie is indeed worthy to be obserued For first the scripture is fulfilled which sayth mâ—ny shâ—ll â—leaue vnto them faynedly Dan. 11.34 Secondly being fallen if they had com to a more holy faith better walking wheÌ„ they were gone out from vs it might haue importeâ— ours to be evil but now that they haue fallen to grosse heresie impietie it argueth Gods hand so be heavy vp on them because they continued not in the truth with vs. And this the scripture confirmeth saying of such as receiue not the loue of the truth
that they might be saued that therefore God wil send them strong delusion that they shall beleeâ— lies and of such as depart from the faith that they shall giue heed vnto spirits of errors and doctrines of Diuils It is also to be obserued that al such impious hereticall persons as haue departed from vs are interteyned with you in your communion vnlesse themselues refuse to communâ—cate with you your church is the receptacle of al sâ—ch Apostataes there they are suffred in herisie impietie so as they wâ—l frâ—qâ—eÌ„t your assemblies Better reasons therfore more weithty câ—nsidâ—rations haâ—e you need to allege before you can perswade vs to returâ—e vnto your church for these hitherto propounded examined are found too too lâ—ght But it may be better follow ARGVMENTS That the best assemblies of the present church of ENGLAND are true visible CHVRCHES 1. IN what churches soeuer are found in publick practise the things that essentially constitute a true visible church they are true visible churches of Christ. But in the best of our assemblies are found in publick practise the things that essentially constitute a true visible church Therefore the best of our assemblies are true visible Churches Proof of the assumption A visible church is the house of God 1 Tim. 3.15 Now the meanes or things that constitute it are 1 Foundation Iesus Christ to build vpon 1 Cor 3.11 Mat 16.18 2 Builders that is such preaching ministers of the word as doe build in godlynes convert and confirme 1 Cor 3 10. 3 Instrument of building the word of God Eph. 2.20 4 Matter to be built people ioyned togither in the profesion of the Gospel 1 Cor 3.9 Eph. 2 20. But all these are found in publick practise in the best of our assemblies Therfore in the best of our assemblies are found in publick practise the things that constitute a true visible church Answer THE title of your arguments conteyneth 1 an error or absurditie 2 argueth some check in your own consciences for defence of your Church 1 The error is that you divide the church of England into many Churches making the first as I conjecture a national Church the other parishionall This is an error because it is an humane inuention and differeth from the scripture which sheweth many churches to be in a nation or country as in Iudea Asia Galatia c Gal 1 2 21. Reu. 1.4 but sheweth not any natioÌ„al church Now that yours is a national church not onely the name and title but also the constitution sheweth for it hath a Pastor over it the Archbishop of Canterbury Primate and Metropolitan your most reverend father in God who maketh and consecrateth the Diocesan Bishops wherevpon there are Diocesan churches or Sees and they agayn make the Parish Priests To him and to his successors the inferior Bishops haue sworn so help them god through Iesus Christ. all due reverence and obedience If the mould of this Church were not fetched from Rome shew where you learned it 2. The check which the title argueth to be in your conscience appâ—areth apâ—eareth it that you plead but for the best assemblies of the present church of England for doe you not hereby intimate that there is a worser sort which you will not plead for yet both bâ—st and worst are all one body one church and communion If your Church of England be Christs why maynteyn you not the whole is not every â—art and parcell of Christs church to be defended Thinke you that the priests and people of Israell would haue mainteyned the Most holy place of their Temple onely haue suffred the rest of the howse to be ruinate and troden vnder foot or if they did thus should they haue done well How persidiously then doe you deal with your church if it be the true church of Christ that you seek to vphold your Sanctum sanctâ—rum your best assemblies and neglect the rest Or if you would make one peece of your church Christ and another peece Antichrists where both be in brotherhood and vnitie togither it is as absurd as if you would make one part of your bodie humane an other bestiall one peece Gods another Diuils It is contrarie also to the playn scriptures which say what communion hath light with darknese â—hat concerd hath Christ with belial meaning none at all Eyther therefore you must iustify your whol Church or you must with vs make a separation How long will you halt between two opinions To your Argument I answer the proofs of your assumption fayl you A visible church you say is the house of God True but your Bethell will be found Bethaâ—en the houâ—e of Idolatrie You make the things constituting your howse to be fowr 1 Foundation 2 Builders 3 Instruments 4 Matter But the forme or fashion of the building you leaue quite out perhaps you saw that it would not endure the trial when it should be compared with the patterne that God shewed in the Mount The Prophet Haggai reproued the Iewes for that Gods house was not builded amoÌ„g them If you had beeÌ„ ther. you would have disproued the Prophet by this sophistrie We haue the 1 Foundation laid Hag. 2.9 2 Builders we haue many both priests and people 3 Instruments also for to hew and square the timber and stone as axes c. 4 and matter wherewith to build as wood from the mountain and stone from the qarrie Therefore though the stones be neither laid nor squared nor the timber hewen fitted or framed because with vs are found the things that essentially constitute a visible house we haue the true house of God But if your own material houses were no otherwise builded then your church is by this your argument you would haue but an vncouth dwelling If you read Gen. 11. you shall find the towr of Babel to be as wel builded as your church for there was the 1 Foundation laid 2 Builders many 3 instruments also 4 matter both brick and slime Now let vs examine the things which you say you haue and doe buâ— barelie say for you proue it not 1. The Foundation is Iesus Christ to build vpon 1 Cor. 3.11 Mat. 16.18 But this Foundation is not yet rightlie laid in your assemblies you haue it onelie in name and shew Christ is neer in your mouthes but farr from your actions If you had shewed by the scriptures how Christ is laid for the foundation of the church it would soon haue bene seen that your house is set vpon the sands For you haue not him for the mediator prophet priest or king of your church as it is now established Many truthes I acknowledge are taught among you but many vntruthes are also mixed with them and the power of godlines is denied for the truthes that are taught cannot be practised Your church hath also other spirituall Lords and lawes then Christ and his testament as your Prelates with their cannons
branches bear little fruit but vnto themselues and as Moses foretold their grapes are grapes of gal their clusters bitter for the publick idolatries vsed in your assemblies after the maner of the mother of Rome shew that your vine is of the vine of Sodom Christ prayed onely for them that should beleeu in him through the word that they all might be one in the Father and the Son as the Father in him and he in the Father but the true members of your best assemblies are one with the world for whome Christ would not pray being on spiritual body ioyned in communioÌ„ with the whol multitude of profane and wicked of the land That strange it is you should read the scriptures and not discerne how farr you are from being vnited with Christ who as himselfe was not of the world so neyther are his people but chosen and separated out of the same Whereas you bring no proof that your people haue true faith but by Mr Iohnsons confession it sheweth how distressed and helplesse your estate is Yet doe you great wrong to Mr. Io as the reader may see in the place that you cite For although considering them apart from the constitution of your Church he thinketh by the appearance of the knowledge faith and fruits of diuers that they may well be thought in regard of Gods election in Christ to be heirs of saluation and in that respect true Christians yet in respect of the constitution of your Church he sayth they can not be iudged true Christian. Now we deal against your church in regard of the constitution thereof not doubting but God hath many elect heyres of salâ—ation among you which we leaue vnto him that knowes them Your argument then from Mr Iohnsons confession is faultie and agreeth not with the rules of right reasoning for whereas he limiteth his iudgment of them shewing in what respect it is plainelie excepteth their church-constitution you bear your reader in hand as if he granted it without lâ—mitation and that too according to the Scriptures in your first proposition which evidently do concern the churches constitution You may much abuse any mans words if what he speaketh respectively you will take and allege as spoken absolâ—telie So your proofe fayleth you In the end you referr vs to the confirmation of your 5 Argument following to the Answer whâ—reof I also refer the reader Now though I haue answered first to the assumption or second part of your argument on proof whereof you doe insist yet the first part also shal be better examined ere I let it passe Those churches you say whose true members are onely espowsed to Christ. are true visible churches By true members I conceiue you doe meane not as the truth is all baptised and so reteyned in your church but some few choise persons or forward professors among whom there is an imaginary brotherhood and separation from the other profane in your parishes though invery deed they stand all one bodie If thus you intend as the proof of your assumption plainelie intimateth you do then offer you violence to the similitud of mariage or espowsall which al meÌ„ know is not with some few members of a womans body as her fingers or hands c but with the whole woman who giueth her selfe by covenant vnto her spowse or husband And as in civill mariage so it is in spirituall for Israel of old when the Lord became a husband vnto them did not some of them but all the multitude generally make covenant with their God the scriptures also which you alleg Eph 5.2 Cor 11 speak of the whole body of the church not of a few select members of the same For though it be true of every visible church that some onely are elect howsoeuer all be called yet the discerning of this belongeth to God alone and not to vs who esteem of persons according to their outward covenant profession and walking Your reason then seemes to be like this That womans â—hose true members as namely her eye and eare and some of her fingers are espowsed onâ—ly to such a man She is his true and lawfull wife But the true members of N howsoeuer her whole bodie in generall is coupled with an adulterer and the most of her members ar affected and wholly giuen ouer to that adulterer and her pretended husband they hate never made couenaÌ„t with ar espowsed only to such a man Threfore c. If this reason be not absurd let him that readeth iudge and if such absurdity be not implyed in your argument shew if you can in your next writing for if you striue to avoyd this you will fall into another evill as shall then be manifested The 3. argument IN what churches soever is such an ordinance of God in publick vse and forâ— by which there is ordinarily made an vndoubted resurrection or quickning froÌ„ the death of sinne vnto the life of grace and a new birth they are true visible churches of Christ. Iam 1 18 1 Pet 1 23. But in the best of our assemblies is such an ordinance of God c. Therefâ—â—e c. The assumption is manifest because by that ordinance of preaching which is in publick vse and force there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth seing there doe ordinarily appear in many the vndoubted fruites and testimonies of Gods spirit after the publick and ordinary preaching of the word in our best assemblies Answer THE first part of this your argument seemeth to imply an error as that a church is first gathered constituted of an vnregenerate profane and worldly people over which are set Pastors and Teachers who by preaching the Gospel doe beget them or some of them vnto thâ— faith and quicken them from the death of sinn c which quickning or new birth is a proof that they are a true visible church This course I finde to be contrary vnto the scriptures which I would thus manifest When the Lord Iesus would shew mercy to the world and call his elect out of the same he sent Apostles Prophets and Evangelists to preach his saluation to all peoples The people to whom they preached werâ— not for the most part churches of God but assemblies of heathens and idolaters as for example the men of Lystra of Corinth of Athens where Paul preached in Mars street and other like places By meaneâ— of this manner preaching many â—eople were regenerate or beâ—ne a new quickned from the death of sâ—â—â—e aâ—d tuâ—â—ed from idols to the liuing God And being thus begotten vnto God they were separated from others that belâ—eued not and ioyned togither into a holy comâ—union not hauing other officers over them for a while till men were fitted for such a worke Therefore oft times the Apostles departed to other places and left the Evangelâ—sts to redresse things that remayned and to ordein them Elders in every citie as the Apostles
you further bring aginst vs forreyn churches and speciall persons the chiefest lights of this age first mind whither this be not â—lso â— ground of Popery so to presse humane authority and whether the Papists cannot for many of theâ—r heresies allege the ancient fathers the chiefests lights of their ages whome your selues I suppose will not deny but to be spirituall seing their testâ—monies are often alleged by your church in pulpits and in print Secondly this your dealing is such as both the better sort of the late Fathers as Augustine for example who was of mâ—nde that counsels Bishops c. ought not to be obiected for triall of controuersies but the holy scriptures onely and the very superstitious Popelings themselues haue condemned saying that we are rather to beleeu â—ne priuatâ— faithfull man then a whol Councel and the Pope himselfe if a man haue better aâ—thorety reason on his side Thirdly your obiection and pleading against vs is much like as if the Iewes should haue obiected against Christianity thus It is not needfull to saluation to beleeu that Iesus who was crucâ—fied is the Christ for then it would be cleerly set down in scripture to the vnderstanding of the spirituall Dan 12 10 Prou 8 9 but that it is not for the thousands of priests and people of Israel Gods own people among whom are the chiefest lights of this age the Rabbines expounders of the law c. which are vndoubtedly spirituâ—ll are of contrary judgment to you his disciples Iob 7 47 48 49.52 Fourthly as I haue before answered forreyn churches and the lights in them haue cleerly seen the things we stand for and doe asseâ—t with vs touching separation from Antichristianisme gathering into and walking in a holy communion of Saincts and other poynts of greatest moment between you and vs. as their Harmony of Confessions besides other particular books many doe testify If you obiect their particular judgment of your churches estate I answer that is not needfull to saluation therefore they may misse in it and yet be spirituall for if men iâ— their own churches profesâ—e and walke in the truth so farr as God giues them to see and thinke better of other churches then they doe deserue such errors even the most spirituall are subiect vnto It was cleerly revealed in scriptures that the Gentiles should be called vnder the Gospell Deut 32.43 Gen. 12 3 Psal. 67. 117 Isa. 11.10 Chrâ—st â—imself plainly confirmed and commanded it Mat 28.19 Iohn 10 16 Act 1 8. Yet the Apostle Peter himselfe and many other spirituall men perceiued it not till in more speciall and particular weise it was to them reuealed Act. 10.14 28 34 3â— 11 2 â— 18. As Peter and many other godly then fayled in esteeming worse of the Gentiles then they should so learned and godly men now may fayl in esteeming better of your estâ—tâ— then it doth deseruâ— The 5. Argument WHatsoeuer church is the mother of the faithfull is a true visible church but the best of our assemblies are c. Ergo true visible churches The preposition is true because that regeneration and new birth is onely ordirarily wrought by the word preached Rom 10.8.17 Iam. 1.18 1 Pet. 1 23. which is onely and ordinarily found in the visible Church Gal 5 26. 1 Iohn â— 5. The assumption is true because many are ordinarily new borne in our best assemblies by the ordinance of preaching in publick vse and force as appeareth by Mr Iohnsons foresayd confession as also by the meanes of the causes and meanes ordeyned by God to beget faith in the hearers and efficacie thereof Esa. 55 11 Rom. 10.17 and lastly â—y the infallible effects of faith and fruits of the spirit appearing in the true members of our best assemblies Gal. 5 6 22. Answer HEre you seem to bring a new argument though it be but the old in a new coat for take away this mantel wherewith your Major is clothed The mother of the faithfull and all the rest wil be but regeneration and new birth wrought as you say by the preaching in your best assemblies Which things we heard in your third argument and there refuted As you here vrge them agayn I further answer first to your proposition Whatsoever church say you is the mother of the faithfull is a true visible church But Israel say I in her idolatrous estate was the mother of the faithfull yet was she not in that estate a true visible church therfore your proposition is not true That Israel then was the mother of the faithfull appeareth by the words of the Lord Plead with your mother Hos 2 2 That they which were willed thus to plead were the faithfull appereth by theâ—r names Ammi Ruhamah that is My people and she that hath obteyned mercy That yet notwithstanding this mother was not a true visible church appeareth by the Plea to be made against her She is not my wife neyther am I her husbaÌ„d her estate being as elsewhere is sayd without the true God and her children that continewed in her idolatrie should obteyn no mercy Thus you see a church may be sayd to be the mother of the faithfull and yet not be a true Church of God You would confirme the proposition to be true because regeneration and new birth is ordinarily wrought by the word preached which is one lie and ordinarily found in the visible church I answer the word preached is to be found also in the false church as among Papists Anabaptists Anabaptists c. as ordinarie if not more ordinarie then â—n many of youâ— assemblies and although there be not such or so many truthes â—aught among them as are among you yet the word that is taught hath effect for sanctâ—fication of life in as great measure as ordinarâ—ly appeareth in your Church of Engl. where so much profannes reigneth as all men see and know The church of Rome is as your selues prâ—feâ—â—e a falâ—e church yet doubt I not neyther doe I thinke you doubt but sundrie children haue been borne vnto God by that harlot The church of Enâ—land it as we professe a false church your Ministery also falâ—e yet God which brought light out of darknesse hath brought forth I doâ—bt not and saued many of his dear châ—ldren among you But let not thiâ— embolden the rest to continew with you in your false estâ—te least they finde no mercy with the Lord because they be children of fornications To your assumption then I answer as you first set it down I graunt it yet will not your conclusion follow for it may be a mother of the faithfull and yet no true visible church for the reason foreshewed But as you afterward explain your selfe saying the assumption is true because many aâ—e ordinarily new borne c. I deny it thus to be true because neyther is a new birth ordinarily to be had among you neither haue you Gods ordinance of preaching in publick vse and
force If your people were truelâ—e regenerate they would not sinne mâ—stike me not I know the remainders of sinne dwell in the best men and draw them to that they neyther would not ought but as thâ— Apostle sayth He that is borne of God sinneth not And seing so many and great sinns reign in your best assemblies how can you say you are regenerate for I haue before manifested that ordinarilie people are kept and continued among you in an vnholy communion with the wicked and irreligious and nourished with sâ—perstition and idolatrâ— these and the like things are no tokens of true regeneration Mr Iohnsons confession is before treated of and will not import that which you would infer The causes and meanes ordeyned by God to beget faith are not by Esa 55 11 Râ—m 10.17 proued to be among you For there is spoken of the word going out of the Lords mouth but your minâ—sters are not the Lords mouth because they haâ—e not from him their calling sending and authoritie to preach bâ—t haue it from his enemie Antichrist and as the Apostle saith how shal thâ—y preach except they be sent Neither are they as the Lords mouth because they separate not the precious from the vile Ier. 15 19. Neyther are the infallible effects of faith c. proued by Gâ—l 5 6 â—2 to be in the true members of yâ—ur best assemblies For seing faith is there sayd to work by loue and there is no loue of Christ vnlesse men keep his commandements and his commandâ—ments are not kept in your idolatrouâ— assemblies it cannot be affirmed that you loue the Lord if so you contineâ— continew in sinne or that you haue true faith But rather seing the contrary works of the flesh which the Apostle there mentioneth adultery fornication c idolatrie witchcraft hatred c. contentions seditions heresies c. are found in the true members of your church for all among you are baptised and all baptised are true members you are more rightly to be reputed vnregenerate and vnsanctâ—fied in that your sinnfull and confused estate Neyther haue you Christs power in your best assemblies to cast out the wicked from among you but they are fostered fâ—d and blessed with your word prayers sacraments c. and such as absteyn from your idolatrie and from communion with the wicked you hate reproach excommunicate and persecute that your church is indeed a mother to the profane But a stepmother to the faithfull The 6 argument THose Churches for whome the Churches of God reiâ—yce are true Churcheâ— 2. Thes. 1.4 But our best assemblies are such for whome the churches of God reioyce Ergo. The reason of the proposition is because the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and ministery from a false as Ioh 10.27 5. Maâ— 24 24 1 Cor. 14 32. and 10 15· 1 Ioh. 4 1· The assumption is true because all the churches of God reioyce in our best assemblies and haue giuen vs the right hand of fellowship and testimony of a truâ—â—hurch hauing ioyned our publick confession with their Harmony Answer THIS argument is one and the same with the third of your first Constlerations saue that it hath gotten the fashion of a syllogisme The in sâ—fficiencie of this reason I haue there shewed and thether doe referr the reader Further here I answer that you turne the testimony of the reformed churches to your best advantage yet neyther with equitie nor good successe For they joy not for your best assemblies more then for your worst but for your Church in generall and the confeâ—sion of the same They rejoyce for every Bishop Priest and Deacon and for every Parish that maketh such confession as Bishop Iewel in his Apologie hath set down Part of which Apologie they haue vnited with their Harmâ—nie And why bring you them as approuing your best assemblies onely Your Lords the Prelates may truely say you doe them wrong to apply vnto your selues the applause which other churches giue to their Apologie They wil tel you in your own words the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and Ministery from a false But the reformed â—hurches haue discerned the nationall church of England whereof the Archbâ—shop of Cant· is Pastorâ— to be a true church they haue discerned the Diâ—cesan Bishâ—ps in England as well as the Parish Priests to be true Ministers and reioyce as well for their Sees as for yoâ—r Parishes hauing joyned these all alike in their Harmony And what will you that suffâ—r sâ— many things for sepâ—rating in yâ—ur châ—rch as yoâ— sâ—yd answer to your right reverend Fathers against whome like vnnaturall children yoâ— hauâ— striven so long and would have them with their jâ—risdâ—ctâ—on â—ut out of your church thâ—t the Pâ—râ—sh priest or Deacon mâ—ght Lord it alone More particularly I answer yoâ—r first propostion is vnsound cannot be proâ—ed from the scripture you allege 2 Thâ—s 1.4 from which text yoâ— must conclude on this faâ—hâ—on Pâ—ul and Siluanus and Timotheuâ— reioyced of the Thesalonians in other churches of Gâ—d because of their pacience and faith in all persecutions c. Therefore the reformed churcheâ— reioycing for the church of England it must needs be a true church The conseqâ—ence is denied True churches may err in their judgment of an other church especialy if theâ— be not rightly informed of the statâ— thereof as the reformed churches are not by that your Apologie Moreover he that mindeth the things recorded of that church 1 Thes. 1 3 6 7 9 c. and the different estate to be seen in your church may soon perceiâ—e their is no lâ—ke cause of joy for you â—s for them that if there be a lâ—ke effeâ—t it is in error The reason of the proposition is no better confirmed by the scriptures you allege For when Chrâ—â—t sayth Iohn 10 27 5. Mâ— sheep hâ—ar my voyce and they will not follow a stranger doeth he send his sheep to other flocks to try their shepheards by or if I see my shepheard to be a thâ—ef a hireling a wolf mâ—st I commit my sowl vnto hâ—m because other shepherds wâ—ll giue him the right hand oâ— fellowship In the other scriptures say nâ—t the Apostles to the particular churches and persons iudge ye what I saâ— try ye thâ— spâ—rit and beleeue not euery spirit But you would not haue our selues to iudâ—e or try but to send over sea and hear what other churches iudge if they apâ—roue we must not disalow You may as wel bid vs. put out our own eyes that other men may lead vs and as soon will we follâ—w you in that as in this your popish counsell We have learned to liue by our own faith and know that every man shall beare hâ—s own bâ—rden and answer for himself to God But you will tell vs if we can iudge and discerne the true church others can doe it also and better I
answer I may err iudgment so may others even whole churches therefore let euery man look how he iudgeth and how he deâ—endeth on other men and let evey mans â—udgment be tried by the scriptures For this cause we say vnto you seing we haue fought for the judgement of other churches but can get no answer procure you some reasons from them in defence of your church ministerie worship and ecclesiasticall gouerâ—ment and if by Gods word they can justâ—fy those things and evince that we haue done evil to depart from you we will returne vnto you Otherwise if they reioyce neuâ—r so mâ—ch for your estate we are verâ—ly perswaded that both they and you haue more causâ— to mourne for the many abominations that are amâ—ng 〈◊〉 To conclude consider in an example the weight of your argument for by the like reâ—son the envious ministers in Pauls time mought thus haâ—e justâ—fied themselues That mâ—nisterie and ministration for which the Apostles of Christ reioyce is true to be obeyed and continued in But our ministery and minâ—stration is such as for it the Apostle Paul reioyceth yea and will râ—ioyce Philip â— 16.18 If you Answer the Apostle reioyced for the preaching of Christ not forthe envious affection of the preachers who might be damned themselues notwithstanding their true doctrine it is true And so minde I for the reformed churches They reioyce for the many truthes you profesâ—e against Popery as we also doe the like yet may you neverthelesse perish for your false constitution idolatrous worship popish hierarchie and other transgressions that are among you Amend your liues therefore and turne your feet into the wayes of peace for if you rely vpon man anâ— make â—lesh yoâ—r arme and will not heâ—r the word of the Lord that condemneth your iniquities you shâ—ll perish in your sinns other châ—rches shall not be able to excuse of sâ—ue you ARGVMENTS That the PREACHERS of the best assemblies of the church of ENGLAND are true ministers of Christ. I THâ— prâ—achers after whose publick powerfull doctrine of the word do ordinarily follow repeÌ„â—ance conuersion to God sauing fayth in Christ loue to the brethrâ—n and oâ—heâ— fruits of the spiâ—it Gal. 5 6 22. in the hearers are true ministers of God and of the visible châ—rcâ— But â—fter â—he dâ—ctrine of Gods word taught by the preachers of our best asseâ—bliâ—s doe ordâ—narily appear the fruites of the spirit in the hearers Thâ—refore thâ— preachers of our best assemblies are true ministers of Christ. The â—roposition is proued because onely the word that God doth send in the 〈◊〉 oâ— his ministers is ordinarily effectuâ—ll for these things Ier. 23 22 Esa. 55 11. Mat 7 20 Luk 1 76 Ioh. 10.1 2. 1 Cor 9 1. â— 4 15. Thâ— assumption is proued by the answer to the assumption of the 4 argumeâ—◠〈◊〉 thâ— churcheâ— Answer OVR separation is from your Church consisting of many assemblieâ— all compact into ore bodâ—e and from all your Ministerie both prelacie and priesthood We cannot tel which assemblies or ministers be best for they that seem best may proue worst because they most deceiue the simple the wolf that comes in a sheeps coat is no whit better than he that commeth in his natiue hiew but he may doe more harm in that he is disguised Reason would perswade vs that the Bishops are the preachers of your best assemblies for they haue greatest dignity fatherhood and authority in your church they preach in the highest and most honorable assemblies of the land they are most carefull to obserue their oath of due obedience to keep the canonâ— orders lawes and ceremonies of your church and set themselues against such as secretly vndermine the state of the church and ministerie of England yet openlie stand members and professed friends of the same They and their assemblies are best ordered after the constitution and lawes of your church So that to speak as I think I know not which assemblies be best where the Leven hath sow red the whole lump though I can guesse which you doe mean but plain dealing about your ministers and asâ—emblies would haue beseemed you best Tel vs therefore when you next write what ministers you mean whether the Bishops Deanes Doctors c. that are in the cathedrall churches or the Doctors and Diuines that are in your vniuersities or thâ— Parsons Vicars Lecturers that are in your Parishes Again what Ministers they be whither Apostles or Prophets or Evangelists or Pastors or Teachers for all these are ministers Eph. 4. and meet it is to know your meaning for though Apostles and Pastors be both ministers ordeined of Christ yet if one will say everie Pastor is an Apostle he is but a liar So you see it is needfull that we ransack these your ambiguous and generall termes Now for your argument first I answer to the proposition that though these fruites you mention doe many times follow the doctrine of Christs ministers yet not theirs onely nor alwaies Not onelie because other men that are not in office of Ministerie may by excercise of their gifts work such fruites as appeareth 1 Cor. 14.1.31.3.24 25. c. I appeal also to your selues whether you thinke not that your best ministers though silenced or degraded from all ministeriall office may not when they teach work repentance fath and other fruites of the spirit Neither doe these fruites alwayes follow the doctrine of true ministers for Noah preached 120· yeares yet followed there not faith and repentance in the old world Christ himselfe preached to Chorazin and Bethsaida yet left the woe vpon them and complaineth in Esaias that he had laboured in vayn among the Iewes and of Israel it is said All the day long haue I stretched out my hand a disobedient and gâ—ynsaying people To reason therefore from the effects this man wrought faith by his teaching therefore he is a true minâ—ster or this man wrought not faith by his teaching therefore no true minister is vnsound and vnconcludable by the scriptures The â—roofs of your proposition being examined wil be found to light for your purpose if you mean that the officers doctrine onely or alwayes is effectuall for these thinâ—s to weet repentance faith c often I know it is and alwayes it hath effect eyther to life or death in the hearers Your scriptures are Ier 23 22. which sheweth what true prophets should labour to doe namely to turne sinners from their evill way c whereas the false prophets did otherwise Eze 13 22 but proueth not that the prophets onely did this for the Priests and Levites did it also Mal 2 6 yea priuate men may often turne their neighbours from evill Leu 4 27.8 19.17 Prou. 31.26 Mal. 3 16 Mat. 18.15 Iam. 5.19 20. neyther proveth it that the prophets alwayes did this for Esaias crieth Lord who hath beleeued our report Isa. 53.1 and it is written that the Lord testified to Israel by all the Prophets
haue not consumed or abolished the Antichristian prelacie and other abominations of that man of sinne nay it is evident they maynten Antichrist for haue they not al receiued their ministery from the prelates promised obedieÌ„ce to their ordinaris yet your preachers wer woÌ„t to say the prelats ar AntichristiaÌ„ Agayn if your ministers had in them the spirit of the Lords mouth they would ere this time haue made a separatioÌ„ from the wicked popish sinful generation for God sayd vnto Ieremie if thou take away the precious from the vile thou shal be as my mouth But this doctrine of separation your ministers wil neyther teach nor suffer to be taught but lock vp the kingdome of heauen as much as they can that men may not enter they blame vs for nothing so much as for separation when nothing is more needfull to be done if we will keep the couenant of our God and maynteyn that war which his own Maiestie first proclaymed between the womans seed and the serâ—ents Gen. 3 15. so vnlike your ministers be to the mouth of God As vnlike they are also to those Angels and witnesses Reu. 18. 14. 11. whâ—ch cried the downfall of Antichrists pompous church and ministerie and called al Gods children out of it saying Goe cut of her my people but your ministers cry that men should tarry within as the potters that contrary to Gods commaundement dwelt with the king of Babel for hâ—s work and such as are gone out they labour to bring back agayne saying that with them is the true doctrine of saluation their errors ar not fundamentall their corruptions abolish not from Christ all reformed churches apâ—roue of theâ—r church and ministery and many such Babilonian songs haue we heard among them And whereas in Reâ— 14 there followed an Angel that with a lowd voyce threatned all those that worshipped the beast and his image and receiued his mark in forehead or in hand your ministers themselues stand vnder that wrath whiles the mark of the beast is so open in theâ—r foreheads by that false ministery of priesthood which they haue receiued from the Bishops whose vnlawfull authority and iurisdiction they submit vnto and teach men to doe the like in whâ—ch respect they cannot excuse themselues from worshipping the Beast seing that hierarchie and prelacy‘ is by the light of Gods word and by the aâ—teâ—tation of the Christian reformed churches and by your own confession heretofore found to be Antichrâ—stian if the Pope be Antiâ—hrisâ— Râ—me be the throne of the Beast Thus men may see that your ministers are far from overthrowing Antichrist kingdome your selfe haue shewed a good reason why Satan cannot cast out Satan The 5. argument THose ministers which are the sauiour of death to the wicked and life to the godly are the true ministers of Christ 1 Cor. 2.16 Such are the ministers of our best assâ—mblies Ergo true ministers of Christ. Answer THis naked argument hath not a ragg to help to couer the falsehood of the aâ—â—umption wherefore â—t may soon be stript and let goe I disprâ—ue that which you haue asâ—umed thâ—s Your minâ—sters are not the saviour of death to the wicked because they suffer them in the bosome of theâ—r church by their sacraments and blessinâ—s confirme them in their sinns doe not excommunicate the profane or vicious liver but let them remayn in mixture with the rest and plead for such a people to be the true church of God They are not the sauour of life to the godly because they preach not the way of lâ—fe trâ—ely by separating from idolaters and idolatry and gathering to a hâ—ly communiâ—n in the faith and obedience of the gospel Bâ—t whileâ— they persecute preach and write against Gods children which prâ—ctise the orâ—inances of his couenant and by fayr pretexts and tolorable reasons seek to draw them back to their confused assembliâ—s they are lâ—ke those whome the Lord reproued thus And will ye pollute me among my people for handâ—uls of barly and fâ—r peeces of bread and to stay the soules of them that should not die and to giue life to the souleâ— that should not liue in lying to my people that heare your lyes Ezek 13.19 The 6. Argument THese ministers that are hated of all men for the sake of Christ are the true ministers of Christ 1 Cor. 4 9 10.11..12.13 2. Cor. 6.4.5 6.8 Mat. 10 â—2 Such are the ministers of our best assemblieâ— Therefore true ministers of Christ. The MINOR is proued for that thâ—y are hated of the most part and of the most evil of all sorts as were the Apostles and desciples of Christ. Consider what I say â—nd the Lord giue thee understanding in all things 2 Tim 2.7 Answer THis your last reason comes al too late and wil help your ministery nothing For by the discussing of your former arguments We haue seen that your ministers câ—nnot proue their office calling or entrance into the sheepfold by Christ neyther administer they according to his testament but after their owne invented leitâ—rgie lawes and Cannons So that if they be hated of all men in respect of their ministery they are not hated for Christs sake seeing they haue none of his ministery hated it may be they ar of many so are Frâ—ars and Monks and the rest of Anti-christs clergie so it is written that the ‡ whore shall be hated made desolate and naked her flesh eaten and shee burned with fyer but it is the cause not the suffering which makes the martyr Whereas therfore your minor is proued by a bare affirmation onely that so it is as is your manner of disputing you must take a better course and proue things otherwise ere we will yield for the Arrian and Anabaptists and all sorts of religion wil Plead that both they and their ministers are hated for Christs sake but every tree is knowne by its fruits Yet haue yea no such cause to complayn of hatred for the ministry of your Church is aproued and reioyced for as your selfe while are sayd of all the forreyn reformed Churches in the world and at home wee know how it is reuerenced honoured and obeyed Your cheifest ministers being acknowledged for spiritual Lords and right reverend Fathers the inferiour priests as sound and excelent Divines followed and flockked after by the people And how they are provided for by rich Bishoppricks fat benefices al ouer the Land besides their dayly intertainment at great and rich mens tables who is there among you that knoweth not These are not signes of hatred Therefore let him that readeth consider indeed what you haue sayd and the Lord giue him vnderstanding in all things O England ISRAEL thy Prophets are like the foxes in the wast places Ezek. 13.4 Positions concerning a true Church INtending to set down some arguments against the corrupt estate of the present church of England I thought it profitable to prefix some few positions as a
comfort one another in the faith and feare of God whose power and presence they haue with them in all estates and places 44 So to conclude a true church is a sacred communiallty consociate and knit togither into a mistical body whose head is Christ whose members christians of any nation or condition whose soul is the word and whose spirit is the spirit of the liuing God who gathereth togither dry desolate bones layeth synewes on them makes flesh to grow and couereth them with skin and putteth breath in them that they may liue and stand vpon their feet an exceeding great army Vnto him for all his blessings be praise in his churches throughout all generations Amen Amen ARGVMENTS Disprouing the present estate and constitution of the CHVRCH of ENGLAND EVery true Church is the body of Christ and hath him for the head thereof For â—t is wrâ—tten God hath appoynted him ouer all â—hâ—ngs the head of the church which is his body Eph 1 22 23 and agayn to the church of Corinth it is sayd yâ— are the bâ—dy of Christ 1 Cor 12 27. But the church of England is not the body of Christ neyther hath him for the hâ—ad thereof Because it waâ— first constituted as now it standeth of the members of Antichrist namely the idolatrous Papâ—sts which openly professed Antichristian sme in Q. Maries dayes haâ—ing Abadden the Pope for their head and spilled much christian blood that they might mainteyn their Romish abominations Who all except some few that of themselues refused were at the beginning of Q. Elisabeths reign receâ—ued into the body of the church and so haue continued they and their seed euer since Yet did they not then enter in by repentance and faith in Christ which two things are the beginning and foundation of the kingdome of God but by the commandement of the Magistrate were compelled vnto the Church sacraments ministery c. which then were by law establâ—shed and euer since continewed Now the Magistrates law cannot work faith in any seing faith is the gift of God and by his word onely is wrought in mans hart So that the Magistrate though he ouâ—th to abolish idolatrâ—e and set vp Gods true worship to suppresse all errours and cause the truth to be taught yet cannot he constreyn men to ioyne vnto the church but they must doe it williâ—gly and gladly the Lord perswading them herevnto And these of whome we speak not being perswaded by the Lord and his word but â—s the worldly multitude alway is beâ—ng ready to receiue any religion the prince woâ—ld establish rather then they would suffer persecution wherein that their popish estate the body of Antichrist yet then compelled and vnâ—ted vnto this church Agayn not onely those that were popishly 〈◊〉 and superstitious but such also as were profane and irreligâ—ous atheists blasphemers whoremongers theeues drunkards witches and all other vngodly persons of which then were and still are too too many in the land these al though by reason of their wicked and miserable estate â—hey wâ—rlimmes of Satan and as the scripture calleth such children of the Diuill were yet receiued into the Church likeweise they and â—heir seed so continew as the state of that Church plainely sheweth For eâ—en to this day profane people mockers and contemners of religion thaâ— blasphem God and his holy name even in the streets as they walk such as cal themselues the donned crew Familists Atheâ—sts and all other sorts of miscreants and wicked liuers are members of the Church of Enâ—land vnited with the body and partakers of the sacraments and other holy actâ—ons of the same Now these children of wrath this sinnfull generation cannot possibly be members of the body of Christ nor haue him for their head seing they are not partakers of his life and spirit nor called to his faith neither admitteth he any such vnto him vntil they repent he hath no coÌ„cord with Belial therefore not with the children of Belial the members of his glorious body must not be the dead stâ—nking and abominable members of Satan Light and darknes heauen and hel will as soon be vnited togither Neyther will it be yenough to say that some are affected to reliâ—ion are of better life and conuersation c. and that for their sakes the residew are sanctâ—fied and may be ioyned vnto and reputed Christs body and Church for they that professe more sincerity yet are not come to a true â—rofeâ—sion of the Gospell or renoâ—ncing of Idolatrie but after theâ—r false and popish manner worship God with the rest remayning one body one Church with them Now we are taught of God that the religious are so farr from sanctifying the wicked as contrariweise the wicked doe pollute them whatsoeuer the vnclean person toucheth sayth the Lord shal be vnclean and the person which toucheth him shal be vncleane â— wherefore come out from among them and separate your selues and touch no vnclâ—ane thing and I will receiue you and I will be a Father vnto you and ye shal be my sonns and daughters sayth the Lord almighty So then the religious and well affected people must separate from the rest if they would be acknowledged of God for his and not think by their holynes to sanctify the profane Agayn it is as easy to make peace agreement between Christ the Diuil as between Christ and such open obstinate synners the children of the Diuill yea it ouerturneth at once the first promise of saluation made by God and so the uery ground of Christian religion For when God first promised redemption to mankind it was by Christ the seed of the woman that should crush the serpents head who in due time appeared for this purpose that he might loose the works of the Diuill destroy and abolish him And as then the Lord put enmity between Christ and the serpent so did he also between him and the serpents seed that is wâ—cked men which being children of the Diuill would take the Diuâ—ls part to hate and kill Christ and root out his châ—ldren and reliâ—ion accâ—rding to whâ—ch decree and word of his Father oâ—r Lord Iesus set himselfe not onely agaâ—nst the Serpent but against sâ—ch wicked men also as would not be turned from their impietie therefore he sayth by his proâ—hets Dâ—e not I hate them that hate thee ô Lorâ— c I hate thâ—m with an vnfeighned hatred as they were mynâ— vtter enemies I hate the assembly of eâ—il doers and company not with the wicked Betimâ—s wil I destroy all the wicked of thâ— land that I may cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord Three shepheards I cut of in one moneth and my sowl loathed loathed them and their sowl abhorred me with many such like speeches throughout the scriptures whereby Christ shewed how farr he was and would be from being head vnto
Eph 4.11.12 14.15 16. 1 Cor. 12 27 28. See also Ioh 10.1 4.5 Act 20 28. Ioh. 21 15 16. But all the ministers of the church of England haue and execute the ministery of a fals church for so by the former argumeÌ„ts that church is proued Therefore they are not the true ministers of Christ and consequently not to be heard or obeyed as shepheards of our soules For the further descrying of the false ministery of this church I referr the good reader to a treatise lately published intituled Reasons and Arguments prouing that it is not lawfull to hear the Ministerie of Engl. And to an other heretofore published called A treatise of the Ministerie of the Church of England I will put enimitie between thee ô Serpent and the woman and between thy seed and her seed He shall crush thy head and thou shalt crush his heel Gen. 3.15 Forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood he also Christ himselfe likewâ—ise took part of the same that through death he might abolish him that had the power of death that is the Diuil and that he might deliuer them all which foâ— fear of death all their life time were subiect to bondage Heb. 2.14 15. And there was warr in heauen Michael and his Angels warred against the Dragon the Dragon also warred his Angels but preuailed not neither was their place found any more in heauen And cast was the great Dragon that old Serpent called Diuill and Satan that deceaueth the whole world cast was he into the earth and his Angels were cast with him Reu 12.7.8 9. A BRIEF ANSWER TO Mr BERNARDS BOOK INTIâ—VLED The Separatiâ—ts Scâ—isme WHen the former treatise was almost finished among other aduersaries Mr Bernard commeth forth to fight against the truth which but a while since he would needs seem to fauour but things not succeeding to his exspeâ—tation he hath changed his loue into hatred And in the bitternes of his zele he haâ—h sent out a treatise conteyning Disswasions from the practise of the Gospel which he pleaseth to call The separatists schisme or Brownisme Though in his book ther be little weight of reason or truth to be seen nor any thing which may grealy trouble a discreet reader who is but meanely acquainted without cause yet both for the stopping of the mans mouth if it may be who maketh huy and crie after some of vs as in his Prooeme to the reader he proclaymeth and for help of the simple who may be offended at the truth not discerning his frawd I thought it needful to obserue and answer briefly the principall things by him obiected many of which are before in this treatise and in other books more largely refuted and all of â—hem may if need require hereafter by some other be particularly refelled Herein now the Lord giue me wisdom to discouer this adversaries falsehood and thee good reader vnderstanding to discerne it Of his PROBABILITIES THE first meanes whereby Mr BERNARD would disswade from the truth which he calleth Brownisme are Probabilities or likâ—lihoods that the way is not good and they are in number as himselfe hath cast them seuen 1. The Novelty of it 2. The agreement thereof with ancient schismatiks 3. The ill meanes by which it is mayteyned namely by abuse of scripture deceauable reasonning 4. The want of approbation of the reformed Churches 5. The condeâ—nation thereof by all their Diuines vidz of the church of England 6. Gods iudgment against it 7. The â—ll successâ— it hath had Such lâ—kelihoods as these the Papists heretofore with as much colour and truth haue alleged against the church of England heathens and enemies haue in former ages obiected the lâ—ke things to the church of Christ and Mr Ber. speaketh but that which hath been spoken before him fulfillâ—ng the measâ—re of his forefathers But to the particulars The Novâ—lty he maketh to be in differing from all the best reformed churches in Christendome But if a Papist had to deal with him he would bring those reformed churches also within the câ—mpasse of Novelâ—y and then Mr Bern. would flee as his brethren before him haue done to the scriptures for antiquity as he would answer a Papist so wâ—ll I answer him let the scriptures speak for the differences between other churches and vs. But here Mr Bern. is mute and medleth not with thâ—s controversie he thought belike the very name of Noveltie and of the reformed churches would fray the simple If it be Nouelty to differ from the reformed churches then may he blame his own church â—f Engl. more then vs seing it differeth from those churches in mâ—e and weightier poynts then we doe yea it hateth persecuteth sileÌ„ceth excommunicateth those ministers people that stand vp plead for such things as the reformed churches haue and practise Agayn these churches haue reiected and writen against many of the Antichrâ—stian enormities that are now in England So if it be likely we are not in the truth because we dâ—ffer from the churches in few things it is more likely Mr Bern. and his brethren are not in the truth because they differ from them in many Wherefore let him first pull the beam out of his own eye Agayn where he standeth vpon the hard words which some of vs haue vttered of the Presbytery c. if he had not an evill and partial eye he mought haue seen many moe hard reproachful words vsed by his right reverend Fathers and fellow priests against the Presbytery and discipline which the reformed churches haue and the reforming ministers of Engl. would haue That still his weapon entreth into his own bowels His 2 likelihood he maketh to be our agreement with ancient schismatiks yet any poynts wherein we agree with them in evill he nameth not much leâ—â—e proueth but referreth us to Mr Giffords paynes herein who had long since his answer by Mr Greenwood to every particular of that his pretended consimillitude between the Donatists and vs to which answer I râ—ferr the reader Agayn this obiection is such as the Papists make against the church of England for so N. D. compareth Protesâ—â—nts with Donatists and let vs see what answer the Priests of England can make for themselues that will not as well if not better clear vs And to come a little neare to this oâ—r aduersary we could pâ—t Mr Ber. in mind of his own wayes wherein he might see himselfe more like a schismatik then any of vs for we openly professe our departure frâ—m the châ—rch of England as from a false church so proued by evident groâ—nds out of Gâ—ds word whereas Mr Bernard holding it to be a true châ—rch abâ—ding in it yet he and a hundred with him made not long since a pretended coâ—enant togâ—ther whereby they separated from the vnpreaching ministers and all that hate to be reformed Yet are those reaâ—ing priests of as â—ood authority by the Lawes and Canons of that Church as
mentioneth shew little or none at all wise men will esteem them accordingly But if such a Diuine as Bredwel doe but call our curse a by-path this sentence is authentik yenough for Mr Bern to put in his book The 6. is the Lords iudgement giuing sentence with them of England against vs. These things as they are before more prudently urged both for the good successe of the English ministers and bad ysâ—ue of many of vs so I leaue the reader vnto the answers before made pag 13. c 23. c. Onely I would advise Mr Bern. to look better to his words when he next write and not to set down such positions as may tend to Atheisme or Iudaisme as wherein his brother Boltons case that hanged himself he Sayth which end the Lord letteth not his speciall instruments to come vnto c. A Iew vpon this graunt would trouble Mr Bernard to defend Christianity seeing Iudas hanged himself who was a farr more speciall instrument of the Lord being an Apostle then Bolton that was but a ruling Elder and not the first brocher of this way as Mr Bern. very vntruely vpon Mr Giffords report if he so reported doth allege Besides that Iudas after a sort repented and acknowledged his sinne and was not that we know of excommunicate yet came to that woefull end wheras Bolton for revolting from his faith at Paules crosse was dealt with excommunicated and so died for ought that is knowen without repentance a member of Mr Bernards church See before pag. 23. The 7. is the ill successe it hath had these very many yeares being no more increased The naturall man perceiueth not the things of God but iudging by the outward appearance giues vnrighteous iudgement If M. Bernard had liued in Noahs dayes and seen his 120. yeares labours and preaching spent in vayn how would he haue stumbled at the work of God that gaue his word no other effect in the world And loe it is written as it was in the dayes of Noe so shall it be in the Dayes of the Son of man But had Mr Bern. bene in the dayes following when Israel very few in number walked from nation to nation from one kingdome to an other people and notwithstanding the promise of multiplication yet in 200. yeares and moâ— had increased but vnto 70. sowles and as many moe yeares were in Aegyptian bondage and had he in the mean while seen the Princes of Israel and Dukes of Esau with the Kings that raigned in his land before any King in Israel how would this man may we think haue gathered likelihoods or rather haue concluded out of doubt against the poor afflicted church of God But it is no new thing to hear this pleading from such carnall gospellers Wel not totell him of Gods gracious work in bringing many to this truth and causing moe to listen after it dayly let Mr Bern. look to himselfe and his fellow Reformists and if his right eye be not blent let him acknowledge Gods hand aâ—ainst themselâ—es who heretofore had so many fautors and that not of the meanest in the land yet now are repressed as troublers of the church and their counterfeyt reformation further from all likelihood of effecting then was at the first And this much of his vnlikely likelihoods Of his REASONS HIS reasons now follow of more force as he pretends then his bare probabilities These are three fold taken 1 from the evill of the entraÌ„ce in to this way 2 from our persons so greueously sinning in this way 3 from our opinions which are altogether erroneous and false The first sort of reasons haue this foundation The entrance is very sinful and cursed Because of these 2 great evils 1 That we doe not onely condemn corruptions and the notorius wicked but also forsake all former Christian profession amongst them A man must cast off that word there with them which made them aliue also the faithfull messengers of God the Fathers which begat him yea he must renounce all fellowship of the godly there c. But we may with the Prophet truely complayn of this man that his mouth is full of cursing and deceit and frawd for how often haue we in our publick writings protested our consent in all the holy doctrines that themselues professe onely because we cannot enioy them without Antichristian abominations which the Prelates impose and the Priests and people practise we haue separated from those assemblies where idolatry is publickly set vp and maynteined from those blinde guides that would seem to make concord between light and darknes Christ and Beliall and vnder shew of many truthes seduce mens sowles vnto destruction Did the church of England forsake all former christian profession among the Papists when they left the Pope and some of his Prelates Masse images c. If not then neyther doe we that haue left but the remnants of Popery yet reteyned and doe walke in the truth to our knowledge and utmost power as God inableth vs not casting off any jote of his word nor any faithfull messenger of his or other godly person as this adversary calumniateth His hart knowes better though it sendeth forth such bitter waters 2. Next this he sayth with such a renunciation of truth must be reteyned much vntruth the particulars are 1 that men must beleeu our way to be the truth of God 2 and then condemn their church as a false church Whether our way be not the truth of God let the Godly iudge by his word by it also let them try the estate of the church of England But Mr Bern. begging the question will haue things to be taken for untruthes before triall or due conviction To help himselfe he seekes advantage by that we haue published as he sayth vnder our hand that the differrences between vs and them are onely such corruptions as are by vs set downe Though the word onely be not ours but Mr Bern. own yet to let this passe as ordinary with him what gathers he from it Corruptions saith he doe not makâ— a false church but a corrupt church make the worst of it that can be as corruptions in a man maketh but a corrupt man and not a false man First let the reader obserue that he speaks not a word of those corruptions which we set down neyther indeed is he able with our corruption to plead for them Secondly it is very corrupt and grosse that he would perswade no corruptions can make a church to be false for then rebellious Israel though they corrupted al their works was a true chuch still but Moses foretold that for corrupting themselues they should be none of Gods children but a froward and crooked generation Now let Mr Bern make the best of it he can His simillitude of a man is not fit in this case A man is a substance but a church consisteth in relation
or reference to Christ as a wife to her husband But if a mans wife play the whore neuer so often and openly she may be by Mr Bern. doctrine esteemed a corrupt but not a false wife Such distinctioÌ„ he may cary to the stewes Corruptions there may grow in churches and they yet be true churches as at Pergamus Thyatira c. corruptions also there may be that will make true churches false as in Israel and Rome where first wre assemblies of Saincts afterward they became whores and habitations of Diuils And there may be such corruptions in the constituting of a church that embraceth much truth as will make it from the first a false church as in Samaria 2. Kin. 1â— 27.28 c HIs second sort of reasons is from the greeuous sinns that are among vâ— by reason whereof from our own ground we may not sayth he be ioyned with The sinns he reckneth 6. First that woefull entrance before named I answer that Mr Bern. entred into this reason with vntruth and continued in it with begging the question as before is shewed So that this his obiection is very wofull aâ—d the man deserâ—eth rather to be pitied then answered in his iâ—le 〈◊〉 made without proof THe second is a hie degree of vnthankfulnes both to God that begat vsâ—ly â—is word and to our mother the church of Engl. that barâ— vs. I answer 〈◊〉 thank God for that knowledge of him whâ—ch we atteyned vnto in the Church of England and are thankfull also as is meet to all the instruments which God hath vsed to bring vs vnto knowledge but now when God hath shewed vs a further truth as what châ—lâ—e of his seeth not more dayly we should shew great vnthankfâ—lnes if we would not walk in it much more if we should blaspheme and persecute it as Mr. Bern. and many of his fellow Priests doe strugling against the light that shineth vpon them A papist may haue occasion of thankfulnes vnto Gâ—d aâ—d men for the knowledge of God and Christ which he hath get in thâ— Roâ—ish church farr aboâ—e that which he could haue had among Pagans yet if vpon sight of the errors in Popery he forsake that false church and ioyne to some other true no man can without vngodlynes condemne him of vnthankfulnes The Papists heretofore haue vsed such reasons as these agaâ—nst the Protestants now they for want of better apply them aâ—â—inst vs. Tâ—e third sinne imputed to vs is that we are full of spirituall vnchariblenes First toward thâ—m that will not goe our way nor be inclinable to vs whome he sayth we deeply censure and deadly condemn First this also is an old popish cauill vsed often against the Protestaâ—ts One telleth them they deserue the punishments of Parricides for scoffing taunting contemning and reviling their forefathers 2. Our vncharitablenes if such it be is this that we pray for and wish vnto all as to our own sowles even life and peace we seek to couer a multitude of sinns which then is done when sinners are converted from going astray And for this cause we speak that which we beleeue and know though the world therfore hate vs. 3 Câ—nsuâ—â— or condemn those that go not our way we doe not we know every man shall stand or fall to his own master It is the sinne onely which we condemn the sinner we seek to saue leauing him to the Lord who shall iudge both him and vs at the last day 4. But how charitable the ministers of England are vnto vs let theiâ— continuall reproches and vituperies in pulpit and in print shew and how they censure and condemn vs and all that will not goe their way let Mr. Bernards own book speake where by the sentence of his godly ministers every one is damned as cutting himselfe off from Christ whosoeuer wittingly and continually separateth from the church of EnglaÌ„d where yet so innumerable abominations and idolatries doe abound 2. Secondly our vncharitablenes as he sayth is a most vngodly desire as ever was heard of to haue the wâ—rd vtterly extinguished among them Aegyptian darknes to come over them rather then that it should be preachedly such as doe not fauour our course c. Our desire is that the Aegyptian darknes which now couereth the land by meanes of the false Prophets that are therein were done away and that the true light of the Gosâ—ell were risen vnto them We are sory to see the prophets which haue night for a vision and darknes for a divination as was threatned of God â—o to deceiue the people by preaching lyes in the name of the Lord when he neuer sent them Christ hath no need of such falsers to help up hâ—s kâ—ngdome he hath wayes and meanes yenough by his own ordinaÌ„ce minâ—stery to build vp his â—hurch though Antichrists clergie be sent back to the bottomles pit from whence they came We know men gather not grapes of thornes nor figs of thistles Lamentable experience these many yeres sheweth what hurt and misery commeth by this false hierarchy and priesthood which vpholds idolatry profanenes and humane traditions pleads for sinne and against the truth to the destruction of mens sowles We wish people therfore to beware of false prophets though they come in sheeps clothing and to seek the Lord by his own ministery not by Ant christs for the theefe commeth not but to steal to kill and to dâ—stroy Let them see by the lamps of God in his own Sanctuary and Candlestick and walke in the light of Ierusalem his church which hath the glory of God arisen vpon it leauing Vr of the Chaldees and walking no longâ—r in the light of the fire and sparks that men haue kindled to themselues least they lie down in sorow 3. The last poynt of our vncharital lenes whâ—ch M. Bern. sayth is the highest degree of all is that we are sorry and enâ—ious that the good things of God doe prosper with them c. That the good things of God doe prosper with them and the truth preuail manger all opposition we haue cause to reioyce for and doe reioyce Yea and we doubt not but the enuious writings and dealings of Mr. Bern and his fellowes against the gospell God will turne to the furtherance of the same and the generation of the righteous shal be blessed which the wicked shal see and fret and gnash their teeth and pine away when their desire shall perish But what are the good things Mr. Bern. meaneth Not the truth of God indeed for that he blasphemeth and writeth against as Schisme and Brownisme Nor the reformists cause called Puritanisme for that prospereth not as all men see but decreaseth dayly The Prelates are the men that prevayl for a whâ—le their canons are confirmed their ceremonies flourish and their hornes are exalted Whether M Bern himselfe who wrote not lâ—ng since a book against
them which also he was willing a gentleman should haue printed in his own name that M Bern. might haue slept in a whâ—le 〈◊〉 whither himselfe I say and his fellow Reformists who are disaâ—oyntâ—d of their hope be not sorry for this prosperitie let themselues say As for vt we haue learned not to fret or enâ—y when we see the wicked flourish for they shall soâ—n be cut down as grasse and wither as the green herb Sory we are indeed for their lamentable estate and desire that they may find mercy at the hands of the Lord. Our foâ—rth kind of sinne he sayth is our abusing of the werd misaleging and 〈◊〉 it c. This was the third of his probabilities before answered and is here for a shew mustred agayn among our sinns but nakedly and without all proof I leaue it therefoâ—e to the reproof of God and to the godly iudgements of all that shall read our writings and allegations of the scriptures The 5. sinne is our wilfull persisting in our schisme This is agayn to beg the question first let it appear to be schisme that we are in let the reasons aâ—d grounds of our separation be orderly dealt in and soundly convinced by Gods word then if we yeild not let vs be holden wilfull Otherweise to persist in wel doing is good And as easily do the Papists cal Protestants schismaticks as they vs. Whether M Bernard with all the helps that he hath had from other men hath conuinced vs of schisme let the godly judge If reproching of vs and idle excursions into by matters be a conuiction doubtleâ—â—e he hath done it better then any before him The 6. syn is our rayling and sâ—â—ffing and as he sayth Henry Barrowes blasphemies who hath â—grâ—giously abused all their holyest exercises of religion c. I answer if such sinne be in any of vs it is even by our selues condemned and â—f by humane infirmity any haue been ouertaken with vnseasoned speeches we desire the Christian reader to bear with and pardon it in vs as himselfe would haue pardon of God The like hath Mr. Barrâ—â— earnestly intreated in his Preface to his Discouery as the reader may see so farr was he from delighting in such wayes Secondly I answer howsoeuer I will not justify all the words of another man nor yet mine own for in many things we sinne all that many of the thâ—ngs which this man counteth raylings scoffs and blasphemies are no other speaches them the holâ— Ghost hath vsed before vs in the scriptures and applâ—ed to like persons and seemed as harsh to men of those times as these doe to men now Thirdly it is lâ—kely that some be rather the printers fault vnlesse Mr. Bernard hath forged them himselfe then Mr Barrowes Fourthly the Reformists themselus amongst whome Mr Bern. sometimes seemed one haue uttered as hard speeches against the Prelateâ— other corruptions of their own church though now like time seruers they gloze with their reuerend Fathers as this man maketh the first of Mr Barrowes raylings scoffs and blasphemies to be his caling the Bishops Antichristian But how many volumâ—s haue themselues heretofore written of this argument And who amongst vs hath euer dealt as did Marâ—in Marprelate among themselues Finally Mr. Barrow did sharply in 〈…〉 against the reforming preachers as being the greatest deceiuers of the people vnder shew of holines This maketh them aâ—ayn so eâ—er agaiâ—st him but whither he spake not right of them may in part be seen already time will shew more they can no longer halt as hitherto they haue but eyther they must recâ—ncile them to thâ—ir Fathâ—rs or quite forsake them and a bleâ—sed work of God it is that the most dangerous seducers should thus first be discouâ—â—â—d THe third and last sort of reasons which M. Bern. vseth against vs is Our errors and as he sayth the matter of our sâ—hisme The errors which he reckneth vp and vndertaketh to confute arâ— ten The first of them is that we hold the constitution of their church to be a false constitution To this he sayth 1. That we cannot proue this simply by any playn docâ—rine of scripture c. 2. That it is against the euidence of the scriptures which maketh the word Mat. 28.19 Mar 16 15. 2 Cor. 5.19 11 2. Iob 23.23.24 Act. 2.14.37.38 16.32.33 the externall profeâ—sion Act. 8.12.37.38 and Sacraments Mat. 28 19. 1 Cor. 10.16 the visible and true constitution of a company so gathered and knâ—t together and so was theirs constituted as that book of Mr. Ber. sheweth and as in another ere long shal be plainly manifested c. First Mr Ber. setteth down barely this as our position and doctrine not nameâ—ng place or boâ—k where it is written nor the proofs that we make of it but peremâ—torily sayth we cannot proue it Whereas it hath in many books by many playn doctrines of scripture been euidently proued so as Mr Bern. and all his fellow priests could neuer yet make a playn and direct answer And if when book is writen after booke no refutation be made but a bare deneyall as here M. Bern. sayth we cannot proue it I say the ministers of Engl. may so turne away any thing but with what credit or conscience the wise will judge Secondly for M. Bernards reason it selfe wanteth a good constitution being to confuâ—edly set down as a man knowes not what he makes the constitution of a church or how he would conclude that their church is constituted aright He pretends the word to be the Constitution of a church whereas the scriptures that he quoteth and reason it selfe might teach him that the word is the instrument or meanes of Constituting conseruing the church constituted so also be the sacraments But as the constitution of a common wealth or of a city is a gathering and vniting of people togither into a ciuill polity so the Constitution of the common wealth of Israel as the church is called and of the city of God the new Ierusalem is a gathering and vniting of people into a diuiue politie the form of which polity is Order as the heathens acknowledged calling polity an order of a city which Order is requisite in all actions and administrations of the church as the Apostle * sheweth and specially specially in the constitution thereof so that next vnto faith in God it â—s to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies Wherefore Paâ—l rejoyced for these two things in the Church at Colâ—ssâ— euen their order their stedfast faith in Christ. Now whereas to the constitâ—tioÌ„ of a châ—rch there belong â— a people as the mattâ—r whereof and 2 a calling gathering and vniting togither as the form whereof the church consisteth in both these the Constitution of the Church of Engl. hath in sundry treatises been â—roued false For with them all sorts of profane worldly and wicked â—ersons are receiued as the matter whereof
no Bishops then doth it follow most euidently that all the English Bishops be no Bishops at al as hauing no other coÌ„secratioÌ„ then from them And if our English Prelates be no true Bishops then surely nâ—yther be they Priâ—sts or Minisâ—ers or Deacons that be ordeyned by them and so consequently the congregation of Eâ—gâ— by Mr Sutcliffs argumeÌ„t not thâ— tru church of Christ. This is the Catholiâ—s argument and plea which how Mr Bern. or his brethren will wel answer and stand also to that which they haue written against vs I cannot tel Finally against that often boasting of the work and effect of the ministery of Engl I will oppose a testimony of one of their chief miâ—isters yet our professed aduersary that it cannot be thought he was partial for vs at all Mr Gifford is the man that thus hath written Somâ— dâ—e wonder how it should come to passe that among vs there should be so many which being borne since the gospell was restored in this land are so zealously addicted unto Popery which thâ—y neuer did know and so utter enemies to the Gospel which they hear But if they weigh the causes of this deadly mischeef they will cease wondring at that and rather wonder that there be no more For how can it bâ— so long as there be so many abuses in the ministery but that many shall stumble and loath the Gospell For from thence as it is manifest the cheife cause of this euill doth spring True it is that our ministery doth fight against them but yet in such sort that it doth greatly increase them Seeming and pretending to tread vpon those cockatrise eggs for to breake them and so â—o destroy utterly thâ— viperous generation when as indeed they sit vpon them and so hatch the broâ—ds of this euill kinde and bring them forth in great plenty For behold a number cry out against popery and proclaym vtter defiance in speach but their doings are such that for euery one which they conuert to the gâ—spel they cause an hundred to reuolt to be hardned in their errors or to fall into flat Atheisme While many coÌ„trary to the professioÌ„ wâ—ich they made when they entred setting aside the care of sowles not esteeming nor regarding what become of them studie most how to clime high and to satisfy their ambitious desire of honour taking togither liuings couetously and greedily not caring who feed the flock so they may â—â—me by the fleese Moreouer the door hath been opened also â—o let into the church 〈…〉 and swarme of such as are more like the priests of Ieroboam then ministerâ— of the gospell not onely unlearned idols which haue mouthes and speake nâ—t which being weary of their occupations and couet to liue easily and to that end are entred but also riotous dicers gamesters quaffers quarrellers adulterers and such like If the matter were secret I should doe amisse to make it manifest but when it is open in the sight and view of all men who can complayn iustlie when it is spoken of Let this record of Mr Gâ—ffords for the effect of their administration and their good quallities besides togither with Mr Bernards former doctrine for their first calling and ordination by the popish prelates shew whether it be not like that this ministery will ere long make accord with the mother church of Rome that hatched it and for whom it againe hatcheth cockatrices eggs The tenth error that we should hold is that their worship in Engl. is a false worship To proue this to be an error Mr Bern. bringeth these reasons 1. That they worship no false God I answer Neyther did Ieroboam the son of Nebaâ— who made Israel to syn yet vsed he a false worship 1 King 12. 2. That they worship the true God with no false worship for they haue the true word preached the true sacraments and their prayers are such as maâ— be warranted by the word c. I answer this is but taking for granted that which he should proue for he knowes well that we deney thâ—se things and by many reasons in sundry bookes none of which Mr Bern. answereth haue disproued their preaching ministring of Sacraments booke prayer c. Seing he will answer nothing before written by vs let him in his next booke prooue that the Apocrypha scriptures and homily bookes which they read in Gods worship are his true word that the sacraments which the vnpreaching priests minister to their profane parishioners by their popish leitourgie are true sacraments let him approue by Gods word the obseruation of all their holy dayes fasting dayes with their prescript peculiar seruice briefly let him shew warrant for his seruice book the making and vse thereof with all the popish contents therein These are strange incense new forgeries of their own neuer appoynted by Christ or his Apostles wherefore we doubt not to affirme their worship to be false euen an humane inuention With these things Mr Bern. medleâ—h not but bringeth proof for other matters which we neuer denyed and referreth vs to an after treatise which now next followeth to be answered Yet ere he leaueth us he will utter all his hart and from his inner store powreth out against vs 12. errors moe whâ—ch he will not spend time he saith in conâ—utâ—tion of they are so absurd and false being also as he thinketh conâ—ured by the former Though nothing need be answered where no shew of proof is made yet to satisfy the reader and shew him the vanity of this aduersary I will briefly touch them all and they be these 1 That their congregations as they stand are all and euery of them vncapable before God to chuse them ministers though they desire the meanes of saluation Al such as desire the means of saluation in what congregations soeuer haue ower and liberty from God to separate from all euill and ioyne togither in good and so to enioy Gods blessings in his ministery or any other part of the Gosâ—el But we hold that no false church hath power from God to chuse ministers which he hath ordeyned onely for true churches 1 Cor. 12.28 Eâ—h 4 12 Râ—m 12.4 5 c. we wonder with what face any Christian can say otherweise If Mr Bern. make the error to be in holding them false churches then is it the same with the 8. error before answered and is here bâ—t idly of him repeated 2. That God in their best assembliâ—s is worshipped after a false manner An other idle repetition of that which before he made our Tenth error which there was answered 3. That baptisme is not administred into the fayth of Christ simply but into the fayth of Bishops and Church of Engl. This I think is Mr Bernards vncharitable collection not our Position Though we hold baptisme among them to be administred neyther by a true minister nor after a lawfull manner but according to their own prescript Leitourgie and to the seed of
them to be the uery shrines of idols and lyable to the Curse Thus are we come to an end with M Bernard passing by his impertinent discourses which in his rouing he ran into leauing him also for his unchristian reproches and iniurious calumniations to the mercy or iudgment of the Lord who behold commeth with ten thowsâ—nds of his Saincts to giue iudgment against all men and to rebuke all the vngodly among them of all their wicked deeds which they haue wickedly committed and of all their cruâ—l speakings which wicked sinners haue spokeâ— against him THE MINISTERS POSITIONS SHAKEN THere is added to Mr Bernards book an other work intituled CERTAIN POSITIONS held and maynteined by some godly ministers of the gospel against those of the separation and namely against Barrow Greenwood The groundwork whereof is thus layd That the Church of England is a true Church of Christ and such a one as from which whosoeuer wittingly and continually separateth himselfe cutteth himselfe â—ff from Christ I will not stand vpon the consequences that may be made of this position whereby all that abhorrâ—ng the abominations in that church and so separating from it are quite cut off from Christ whatsoeuer truth they profeâ—â—e and walke in or whatsâ—euer other church they ioyne vnto but I will insist in a brieâ— answer to that which these Ministers bring to proue this their peremtory sentence and they be 4. reasons 1 For that they enioy and ioyne togither in the use of those outward meanes which God in his word hath ordâ—yned for the gathering of an inuisible Church that is preaching of the gospel and administration of the sacraments 2. For that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith 3. For that thâ—y hold and teach c. all truthes fundamental 4. For that all known churches in the world acknowledge that church for theâ—r sister and giue vnto her the right hand of fellowship These things haue been before handled in this treatise and the weakneâ—â—e of them discouered yet because it may be thought new men will make new arguments and many heads together bring forth deep counsels let us weigh what these godly ministers haue here sayd For proof of the first poynt they doe allege that the meanes which they vse and enioy haue been effectuall to the vnfained conuersion of many as may appear both by the other fruites of faith that may be found amongst them and by the martyrdome which sundry haue enduâ—ed c yea euen we our selues are able to witnes with them that if there be any true faith and sanctification in us it was begun and bred in thâ—ir assemblies Secondly that if Mat. â—8 18.20 Eph. 4 11.12.14 be well examined it wilâ—e found that the meanes which Christ ordeyned for the gathering of an inuisible church are the very same which they enioy euen the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments I answer All this that they say will not proue their Position namely that the church of England which consisteth of the whole nation diuided in to many dioceses and parishes vnder one or two Archbishops c. is a true church of Christ. For the Papists boast of all these things as colourable and as truely as these ministers Their priests haue conuerted many from Pagenisme Iudaisme and profanenes of life their church hath had many martyrs Luther and others that first left them had their faith begun in their assemblies c. and whatsoeuer Ministery is in England from the Archprelate to the halfe priest the Papists haue amongst them yea Engl. had it from them And it is to be admired that these godly ministers can allege nothing for their church but such old popish stales How vainely they assume these things vnto themselues hath been shewed befoâ—e fruits of faith appear noâ— in their confuse assemblies whâ—re God is publâ—ckly dishonoured by false worship his enemies profane wicked people fostered and bleâ—sed with his most holy things and Antichristian prelates and Canons obeyed Were it as they say that many haue been conuerted is that â—enough to make all the church We haue testimonies from their own mouthes that there be swarmes and thowsands of profane irreligeous atheists blasphemers and open wicked liuers Mr Gifford a champion of their own hath confessed and printed it that through want and absence of â— sincere ministery there is a flood of ignorance and darknesse ouerflowing the most part of the land the fear of God is banished from the greatest part the wonderfull heaps and piles of sinne which should be washed and clensed away by the word doe undoubtedly with one voyce cry alowd in the eares of the Lord for veâ—geance vpon the whole realm c Shal now a few supposed conuerts makâ— all this rowt a Christian church It is impiety and an ouerthrow of the Gospell Gen. 3.15 2 Cor. 6.14 18 Mat 15.13 Reu. 21..2 3.27 and 28.15 What meane these Ministers to boast so much of their martyrs whose blood cries against them in the eares of the Lord of hosts For did not their church kill them Let one of themselues speake in this case least we be thought partiall Who knoweth not sayth Mr Nichols how much blood of Gods Saincts was spilt in former ages and how many howses were guilty of blood And when did this land serioâ—sly and sincerely humble it selfe by â—pen repentance make reconciliation for the same Nay rather how many thowsands repined at the happy reign of her maiesty for the casting out of the idolatrous and superstitious worship of God and for the establishing of his holy namâ— and the liberty in preaching of the Gâ—spell This testimony is known to bâ— true the greater is their sinne that now plead for such a people to be a true Church of God Shall the Cainites be honoured for Abels martyrdom or the Iewes for crucifying Christ then also may the bloody genâ—tion of Papists be canonized for Saincts and made members without râ—pentance of a christian church And for these ministers let them heart and make vse of Christs words to their predecessors Woe unto you for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets and your fathers killed them Truly yâ— bear witnes and allow the deeds of your fathers for they killed them and yâ— build their sepulchres Fulfil ye also the measure of your Fathers It is a slight and simple kinde of reasoning to tel us if those scriptureâ— Mat. 28. Eph. 4. be well examined it will be found that the meanes which Christ ordeyned for the gathering of an inuisible church ar the uery same which they inioy First what doting Friar will not say this much for his popish Synagogue Then why doe not these ministers bring the meanes they boast of to the examination by these scriptures is it yenough think they to the examination by these scriptures is it yenough thinke they to cite a text or two and then ran away The
scriptures they allege haue been before examined and the ministers of Engl. being put into the other ballance are found all too leight But if it were true that they had the meanâ— yet their argument is false if they conclude of the effect Israel had farr better meanes then England I am sure for the Prophets and Apostles and Christ himselfe preached among them Yet loe he complayneth that he had laboured in vayne for Ierusalem killed the Prophets and stoned those that were sent vnto them and the Lord by his Apostles stretched forth his hand to a disobedient and gainsaying people And shall we thinke that the Prâ—ests of Engl. haue such power and grace tied to their lips that because they haue â—reached therefore the whole nation is a true church Or dotâ— there such vertue proceed from these ministers as can make the multituâ—e of swaggering professors atheists blasphemers and all sorts of profane which swarme in the land to be turned Christians worthy to be washed and fed with the body and blood of Christ. and yet continue atheists and profane as before what wondrous effect shall we next hear of but that their preaching hath conuerted the Diuils also But let us hear what testimony M. Gifford hath left behâ—nde him of the graâ— learned prâ—achers of the church of Engl among whom himselfe was one and of the people in their parishes The Diull sayth he is content those preachers should ride vpon his back because he is sure they will not spurg all him they be very gentle riders Doe ye not thinke that if they should set forth Gods word as they ought and spread the light that all wicked of which their parish is full would storme and fret against them the Diuill himselfe would fiâ—k about if they should spur him but a little But they can tell a smooth tale in the pulpit garnished with some merry story for to make the people merry or els some old rotten allegory or some far fetched matter out of some great writers that their people may be at their wits end and admit them A man would thinke to see the people come out of the church blowing that they were fed as ful as tikes when they goe home with emty bellies This I dare warrant if it be not so let me loose both mine eares that gâ—e through the parishes of these graâ—e and learned Diuines and except such as run to fetch their victuals otherwhere ye shall not finde fiâ—e among fiue skore which are able to vnderstand the necessary grounds and principles of religion and yet the People will say they be excellent deep men But I loue not those welles which are so deep that a man can draw no water out of them Loe here the means which the parishes of England doe enioy and worthy effects that follow If Mr Barrow or any of vs should I haue written this it would haue been counted sâ—â—ffing râ—yling blasphemy but now that Mr Gifford so worthy a patron of the church hath thus recorded I hope the witnes wil be thought irrefragable And now let these godly ministers examine Mat 28. Eph. 4 and see if there they can finde these meanes which they enioy iustified But they proceed and tel vs in their second reason that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith For the ConfessioÌ„ of their church tegither togither with the Apologie thereof and those articles of religion agreed vpon in the Conuocation howse anno 1562 doe proue this euidently But herein they would deceiue the simple euidently for first profession of the true sayth when men in practise doe deny it maketh them not a true church but they are as the Apostle sayth abominable Then for profession it selfe if it be by constreynt for fear of punishment by mâ—n that otherweise are profanâ— lewd and dissolute and enemies to the gospell this is no true profession such as will make men a true church for they ought to receiue and professe the truth willingly and gladly Psal 110.3 Act. 2 41. Now we know that with them men were and are forced to the profession they make and if it were at their own choise many thowsands would professe otherwise Their own acts and Monuments besides manifest experience doe witnes this For Mr Fox reporteth that when K. Edward had established this church and religion many people in Cornwal Deuenshire and other places not onely misliked it but openly rebelled for their old idolatrie The Preists though some allowed yet others dissembled and many carelessly conâ—emned all and still excercised their old monâ—ed Popery The Iustices c were not onely slack in furthering of religion but hindred so much as lay in them the Kings proceedings c. So that ciuill force not Christian zelo made men Protestants in that Kings dayes wherefore at his death hauing gotten Q. Mary they soâ— vp agayn their Romish superstition and persecuted the other vnto the death Til Q. Elisah came and inforced them the second tyme to put away theâ—r Latin Masse and images and receiue that English seruice and ceremonies whâ—ch since haue preuayled to this day Whâ—ch how willingly the people yeâ—lded vnto Mr Nichols testimony to omit all others before alleged sheweth And How wel this religion is liked of now after so many yeres let the multitude of church papists in England shew together with the whole rowâ— of rebels in Ireland all which are of the communion of the church of Engl hauing the same Bishops Priests service â— the English and Irish that dwel in the country being ioyned togither in one body and brotherhood Then adde to these papists the profane time-seruers such as M. Gifford deseribeth thus I know there be many which care not for the Pope but yet beleeue much of his doctrine they be those which we call Atheists of no religion but look whatsoeuer any prince doth set forth that they will profess and add vnto them those other firarmes in the church of England that Mr Chaderton complayneth of eronius and hereticall sectaries witches charmers sorcerers murtherers theeues adulterers liars c and all these togither being compelled by law into one church and brotherhood can any man doubt now of that which these ministers say that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith The Confession Apologie and Conuocation-howse articles are strange proofs of the peoples profession If a few men in their Studies or Consistories write books or articles of religion and send them a broad must all people that see or hear them wil they nil they needs be counted professors of that religion yea such also as neuer heard of them in their liues nor caÌ„not tel what they meaÌ„e Surly these ministers ar eyther very ignorant or carelesse what they say when they call this an euident proof The churches in France and Belgia haue published Confessions and Articles also better then those in England yet
God who took our nature of the Virgin Mary is our onely and alsufficient Sauiour For proof of this they first allege that thâ—y receiue this truth are the people of God and in the state of saluation they that receiue it not cannot possibly be saued Mat. 16.18 Mark 16.16 1 Iâ—h 4.2 Col 2.7 But first none of these scriptures doe say that this one article which these ministers haue set downe in this forme of words is the onely fundamentall truth in religion Neyther doth any other scripture that I know of so speake for though Christ onely is the foundation of the Christian church and though as they secondly allege no other point of religion is necessary otherwise then as it tendeth necessarily to teach or confirme this one truth yet foloweth it not but other points also are fundamental truthes the denyall of which will abolish from Christ. Secondly they haue altered added to and omitted some of the words of these scriptures for their own aduantage For fearing that we would as indeed we mean to doe presse them with the profession of the Anabaptists Papists and other heretiks they thinke to preuent vs. And first against the Anabaptists which deny that Christ took our flesh these men haue added who took our nature of the Virgin Mary Then against the papists which hold merit of works they adioyne these words our onely and alsufficient Sauiour And this because the church of England mainteyneth the truth in these points against those fore sayd heretiks On the other hand to help themselues in their corrupt Antichristian walking and false constitution they omit and mention not th' Apostles words Col. 2. wher he sayth As ye haue receiued Christ Iesus the Lord so walke in him rooted and built in him and stablished in the faith as ye haue been taught c The discreet reader may soon espy their purpose in this cunning cariage For let the position be set downe in the scripture termes and we shall see how weake their plea will be The onely fundamentall truth in religion is this That Iesus is the Christ the sonne of the liuing God comen in the flesh in whom we must beleeue and h walke being rooted and build in him and stablished in the faith as we are taught in the new testament If now these ministers will insist vpon the three first scriptures onely and generall terms that are in them it is apparant that the Papists Anabaptists and many other miscreants doe hold and professe them absolutely absolutely But if they joyne with them Colos. 2. and compare the walking rooting building and stablishing in the faith taught by th' Apostles with the Popish church or with their own it wil be found that neyther of them hold the foâ—ndation Christ aright Themselues wâ—ll grant it of the Papâ—sts and other heretiks and for their own church it is before in this treatise proued So then to come agayn vnto their reason that they hold â—eâ—ch and mainteyn euery part of Gods holy truth which is fundamâ—ntall whereby they woulâ— conclâ—de themselues to be a true chrâ—ch the arâ—ument is deneyed Fâ—r first if â—t were granted that thâ—y hâ—ld â—aught and maiâ—teynâ—d every part of fundâ—â—ental truth which yet with them is but one article onely as we haue heard it wâ—ll not follow necessaryly that therefore they are a true châ—rch or that they truely professe the Christ an faith There wanâ— two things 1 obedience to the truth professed withoâ—t which men shal be damned whatsoeuer they professe 2 and a right profession of the true faith onely without errâ—urs adioyned that ouerthrow the same faith and obedience thereto For if a people profeâ—sing that onely fundamentall truth which these ministers speake of should withall professe Mahomet the prophet of the Turks or H. N. the God of the Familists or any other like abomination were this misceline profession of Christ and Belial togither a true and sound profeâ—sion I trow not So then these ministers must alter their plea thus that they hold teach mainteyn and obey every part of the fundamentall truth and nothing els with it that ouerthrowes the same If now they say this they doe I haue before in this treatise disproued it and here agayn will briefly disproue it thus They professe to beleeu the Communion of Saincts and that the visible church is a congregation of faithfull people Yet contrariweise they hold teach and mainteyne that their own church is a true church of Christ though it consists as wel of vnholy as holy infidels as beleeuers and innumerable wicked persons openly seen and known That this they hold mainteyn is proâ—ed by their continual clamors and reprochful writings against vs that call vpon them for a separation of light from darknesse It is proued by Dr Wâ—itgifts plea before mentioned that the children of Papists heretiks and other wicked persons are and ought to be baptised amoÌ„g theâ— It is further proued by the visible estate of their church knowne vnto all among them and testâ—fied by her dearest freinds fauourers Mâ— Gifford speaking to his brethren â—f the Communion of Saincts in Engl. sayth Yee would euen powr out your stinâ—ing and râ—tâ—en pâ—yson like blaspemous and venemous beasts ye would speake after this manner you that are so full of the spirit you that are Saincts and suâ—h like What are you Diâ—ils are ye of the flesh No doâ—ut ye are vntill God convert ye But we may se how diuiâ—ishly men ar become wicked when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy but it is reproched as though it were a shamefull thing to be lead by the spirit c. These and the like records with the continuance continuance in this confused estate plainely proue an ouerthrow of that article of the true church which is the body of Christ and the body being disanulled Christ the head cannot soundly be reteyned Agayn they professe in Engl. that the puâ—e word of God is to be preached the sacraments duely administred c. also that in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we haue expresly decleared vnto vs in the word of God Yet withall they professe and practise in that church to read the Apocrypha â—criptures in which are found vntruthes and errors when many parts of the authentik scripture are neuer read among them they haue also written homilies in sted of preaching a written Leâ—tourgâ—e Letany collects c. in sted of praying which Leitoargie with all the popish contents therein must be approued and vsed by all the Priests and people and God serued by it euery day They haue also an antichristian clergie caâ—led and ordeyned according to their pontifical or book of ordination which â—n their beleef hath not any thing that of it selfe is sâ—perstitious and vngodly c. Finally all the Romish reliques yet in England to be seen in the
beleeue to be saued by him alone and by this colour men continue in transgression and idolatrie stil. which is as if a theef dronkard whormaister blasphemer or other vicious liuer being blamed by the lawes of God which condemne these sinnes should say These are petty faults I confesse but they are not fundamental for the onely fundamentall truth and ground of all Gods law is Loue and that is the fulfilling of the law Rom. 13.8 9.10 Gal. 5.14 1 Tim. 1.5 Now this foundatioâ— I hold for I professe to loue God aboue al and my neighbour as my sâ—lfe on which ground as Christ sayth the law and prophets doe depend and this I doe howsoeuer I cannot keep my tongue from swearing lying and â—iâ—auldrie nor my hands from picking and stealing nor my body chast c. yet my hart is good I loue God and my neighbour and hope to he saued as well as the precisâ—st puritan of them all And now what will these ministers say to theâ—r profane parishioners if thus they pleaded for doe not themselues thus plead for the transâ—reossins of the first table and violating of the testament of Christ in their own false ministery idolatrous rites ceremonies and forged worship But as euery true Christian hart knoweth that such profane ruffians howsoeuer they say they loue god yet in deed they hate him and howsoeuer the sâ—mme and end of all the Law is Loue onely yet that loue implyeth obedience to every particular precept and he which breaketh the least commandement and teacheth men so shal be called the least in the kingdome of heauen as Christ sayth so know they likeweise or should know that such superstitious idolaters false and Antichristian Prelates and priests howsoeuer they boast of true fayth yet by theyr works they deney it and although Fayth in Christ be the foundation of Christian religion yet in imâ—lieth necessarily obedience vnto the ordinances of his Testament euen whatsoeuer is commanded them therein and as the curse is denounced against all the transgressors of Moses law in any part thereof so they shall not escape vengeance that wilfully despise the law of Christ or any part of his testament confirmed with his precious blood And if thus we vnderstand not and interpret those scriptures which sum vp al christianity in Christ we must needs confesse that many false churches euen Rome it selfe is a true church seeing they doe professe such generall grounds of Christ as by playn evidence of scripture seem sufficient vnto saluation as appeareth by Council Trident. Seâ—s 3. compared with Rom. 10.9 Act. 8.37 38. 1 Ioh. 4.2 Mark 16.16 also Rhemes testam annot on 1 Tim. 2.5 wher they professe Christ by nature to be truely both God and man to be that on eternall priest and redeemer which by his sacrifice and death vpon the crosse hath reconciled us to God and payed his blood as a full and sufficient ransome for all our sinns c. How beit that these ministers stumble no more at that we professe let them know we hold euery generall head and ground of doctrine more necessary to be known then ech particular branch of the same an error ouerthrowing a whole ground of religion to be much more wicked then that which ouerturneth but a part thereof Also that many of Gods church are ignorant of sundry particular doctrines of the Gospell yea all of vs in some for none is perfect yet that in some generall grounds ignorance is damnable and further that the wilfull and obstinate refusall or contempt of the least evident truth of the Gospel is deadly and damnable of it own nature Neyther see we how we should beleeue otherweise vnlesse with the Papists we think some sinns veniall some mortall As for Mr Barrowes words from Ioh. 16.13 which also these ministers mistaking doe mislike it is evident by his own writings to the contrary otherwhere that he meant not so erroniously as they collect But that promise made to the Apostles he applieth vnto all the members of Christ by proportion though not in like measure Which that it may be done we learne of the Apostles themselues in other like cases 2 Cor. 4.13 from Psalm 116. Heb. 13.5.6 from Ios. 1 Psal. 118. c. Their last reason is from the approbation of all the known churches in the world which acknowledge this church of Engl. for their sister and give vnto them the right hand of fellowship This poynt is handled before in this treatise pag. 9. c. 48 51. c. vnto which places I refer the reader Many scriptures and reasons these ministers allege from the primitiue churches examples that reioyced for and saluted one another of and of the comfort that a church may haue in the communion and approbation of other churches All which we grant and dâ—e obserue how fast â—hey can cite scriptures for things that we deny not But they say nothing for the controuersie between them and vs. which consisteth of these 3. poynts 1 whither a people may not separate from euill and professe and walke in the truth vnlesse or vntill other churches allow them 2. whether it be a necessary and vndenyable argument that whomsoeuer other churches approue they are true churches and so must be esteemed of all men 3 and whither the reformed churches at this day doe approue of the church of England in all or any of the differences for which we sâ—parate from them The first of these is proved by all Gods commandements which require euery man particularly to refrayn all evill and doe that which is good Exod. 20. The second is disproued by themselues in their writings against the Papists who pressed them with such reasons Let councels sayth Mr Whitaker be esteemed as they deserue let their decrees be examined by Gods word and if they agree let them be receiued for that agreement if not let them be reiected for the contrary To this agreeth their own Bishops Articles ano 1562. Art 21. and also their Apoligie before alleged in this treaâ—ise and finally Mr Bernards own counsel though perhaps he knew no more then Caiaphas what he sayd saying See into the glasse of the word by thine own sight without other mens spectacles c. For the latter poynt we know the reformed churches as their constitution and writings shew are for vs and against them of which see before pag 10 c. and it shall hereafter be further confirmed if these ministers will deny it Hitherto of the reasons alleged by the godly ministers wherein how they haue proued and setled their first position let the godly wise judge Next follow their answers to the obiections made by vs. And these they make two First that their church of Engl. was not gathered by such meanes as God in his word hath ordeyned and sanctified for the gathering of his Church Secondly that they communicate together in a false
and idolatrous outward worship of God which is polluted with the writings of men vidz with read slinted prayers homilies catechismes c. Here let it first be obserued that whereas Mr Barrow whose books they would seem to answer hath giuen 4. causes of our separation namely the 1. false worship 2. profane people 3 false ministery and 4. Antichristian hierarchie these godly ministers like the vniust steward that set down fifty for fiue skore haue contracted the 4. causes into 2. for what cause let him that readeth consider Secondly in the two which they professe to answer they keep not the words by Mr Barrow there set downe as to begin with the first he sayth For that the profane vngodly multitudes without exception of any one person are with them receiued into and reteyned in the bosome of the church These ministers set down the poynt to be about the not gathering by due meanes Whereas if it were granted that they had due meanes of gathering yet the exception made is of force against them rather more then lesse for they that haue the true meanes of gathering a church and yet gather it amisse the greater is their sinne Now to the particulars whereas Mr Barrow had first shewed by many scriptures and reasons what manner persons were to be the matter of Gods church and then compared here with the people of the church of Engl. where all sorts of wicked persons are admitted kept in communion to this the ministers answer First that they might lawfully be accounted a true church though it could not appear that they were at the first rightly gathered For euen as the Disciples might be wel assured of Christs bodily presence amongst them when they saw and felt him though they could not haue discerned which way or how he could possibly come in so may we esteem them a true church of whose present profession and faith we are wel assured though we cannot see by what meanes they were first gathered This answer of theirs is full of errour and frawd for not to speake how they corrupt Mr Barrowes words in the places which they quote by leauing out things of speciall importance first they blamed because all profane wicked persoÌ„s ar of the mater their church they tel us they may esteem them a true church of whose present profession and fayth they are wel assured If this answer be direct and to the purpose then we must beleeue that the godly ministers are wel assured of the present profession and faith of all the lewd profane irreligious and wicked persons in the realm which are members of the church of Engl. Against these was the exception made for these the answer is giuen vnlesse they answer their own fansies and now what assurance the ministers have of such mens faith let the faithfull iudge Secondly the similitude which they bring is a great abuse of the reader whome they would blinde with a false comparison which if it were duely made would make against them thus As the disciples might be wel aâ—â—ured of Christs bodily presence when they saw and felt him c. so men may he wel assured of the wickeds bodily presence in the church of Engl when they see and feel them as who doe not But now as these men haue made the parable what likelihood of truth is there in it for iustifying the vngodly If a man seeing a Priest in bed with one of the Popes courtizans should blame him for this fornication and an other to defend him should plead thus As we are sure that Sarah was Abrahams wife though we cannot tell when or how they were married so may wee esteeme these two of whose present chascity we are wel assured to be lawfull man and wife though we cannot tel how they came together would this be a sufficient defence Yet loe when Mr Barrow blamed the Priests of England for linking themselues in the bed of spirituall loue with the idolatrous Papists and all other wicked of the land at the beginning of Q. Eliz. and continuing in like sinful commixtur vnto this day these Ministers now to saue their credit tel vs an example of Christ presence c. as before is seen Yea the indignity of it stayeth not here for as the Apostle by the Ministery of the gospell prepared the church of Corinth as a pure virgin for her husband Christ so these men pretending to be true Ministers will haue Papists Atheists profane and wicked persons to be Hephzi-bah people in whome God delighteth they will bring this sinfull and adulterous generation even all the vngodly in the land vnto the bed of Christ in his church whether he will or no Which high transgression is the ouerthrow of the mayn ground of the gospell which euer since it began to be sounded in the world hath proclamed a separation of the children of God from the children of Belial as before hath bene proued This being thus obserued how these ministers haue missed at first oâ— the question the further they goe the further they stray and run themselues out of breath in vayn For neyther the examples of Melchisedek Iob Cornelius c. nor their reasons following of 2 other meanes of gathering the church then by the preaching of the Gospel 3 of the preaching of Mr. Wickliff c 4 5 of the course that Q Elizab. took for bringing the Gospell in agayne c. none of these I say will proue eyther that open profane and wicked persons may be receiued and kept in the bozome of the church or that there be not multitudes of open profane and wicked members of the church of England Their present lamentable estate proclaymeth this latter to all men that haue conscience their own writings also heretofore doe strongly confirme it and all the scriptures cry out against the former teach a separation as before in this treatise and in sundry other books is manifested As these ministers have thus passed by the mayn controuersie so haue they in their pretended answers inserted some things corruptly and fraudulently which I will briefly touch First for to bolster out the constreyned profession of faith and ioyning to the church which their people are compelled vnto they plead that Synce Kings became noursing fathers c. to the church their lawes haue been means to bring men to the outward society of the church and the parable proueth that men may be compelled to come Luk. 14 23. This doctrine openeth a dore in the church to all the profane in the world contrary to the scriptures Isa 25.2 35.8 9.2 Chron. 23.19 Reu. 21.27 Leuit. 10.14 Zac. 14.21 2 Cor. 6.14 17. Act. 2.41 19.9 For if a prince may compel some of his subiects to be members of the church he may compel al and if one prince may doe it all may So if there were such an Emperor as Augustus that commanded all the world to be taxed he might