where_o as_o he_o allow_v it_o to_o have_v be_v so_o till_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o appear_v in_o all_o this_o discourse_n now_o for_o bellarmine_n i_o be_o sorry_a such_o a_o superficial_a reader_n shall_v meddle_v with_o he_o to_o the_o shame_n of_o our_o whole_a nation_n mark_v how_o he_o reason_v bellarmine_n disclaim_v these_o three_o as_o proper_a mark_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v they_o not_o i_o pray_v what_o consequence_n be_v here_o first_o may_v not_o a_o man_n disclaim_v that_o which_o he_o have_v for_o some_o siâ—ister_n respect_v best_a know_v to_o himself_o as_o pride_n and_o presumption_n in_o meddle_v in_o cause_n and_o with_o person_n too_o high_a for_o he_o and_o the_o like_a second_o do_v bellarmine_n disclaim_v they_o simple_o and_o not_o only_o in_o comparison_n of_o mere_a proper_a mark_n three_o may_v not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v they_o as_o mark_n common_a to_o all_o church_n true_a and_o false_a 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church_n from_o which_o confession_n you_o reason_n thus_o that_o which_o no_o one_o papist_n can_v demonstrate_v all_o of_o they_o put_v together_o can_v demonstrate_v but_o no_o one_o of_o they_o can_v demonstrate_v himself_o to_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la not_o all_o together_o and_o what_o the_o that_o church_n who_o member_n either_o several_o or_o together_o can_v demonstrate_v themselves_o to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n can_v demonstrate_v herself_o to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n but_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n neither_o several_o nor_o together_o can_v do_v it_o ergo_fw-la she_o herself_o can_v do_v it_o that_o i_o may_v give_v a_o full_a and_o sufficient_a answer_n to_o this_o large_a argument_n which_o be_v take_v from_o rome_n own_o doctrine_n and_o confession_n i_o must_v signify_v unto_o he_o that_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o that_o he_o know_v not_o what_o rome_n doctrine_n and_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n 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useful_a to_o join_v we_o together_o again_o in_o one_o communion_n the_o former_a whereof_o be_v false_a as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o former_a answer_n the_o latter_a depend_v upon_o the_o scandal_n of_o the_o author_n for_o the_o better_a understanding_n whereof_o we_o be_v to_o know_v that_o the_o reform_a church_n never_o make_v a_o full_a and_o total_a separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o only_o partial_a from_o her_o corruption_n non_fw-la tam_fw-la ab_fw-la ea_fw-la quam_fw-la ab_fw-la eius_fw-la erroribus_fw-la discessimus_fw-la say_v jewel_n in_o his_o apology_n which_o be_v the_o common_a voice_n of_o all_o even_o of_o perkins_n himself_o in_o his_o reform_a catholic_a who_o show_v in_o every_o head_n of_o doctrine_n how_o far_o we_o may_v and_o must_v hold_v communion_n with_o that_o church_n and_o to_o this_o and_o no_o more_o have_v the_o reverend_a author_n respect_n in_o this_o assertion_n now_o this_o calumniator_n will_v make_v the_o world_n 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his_o due_n as_o we_o say_v it_o be_v good_a therefore_o that_o all_o man_n be_v well_o advise_v in_o this_o point_n in_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n pro_n or_o contra_fw-la as_o a_o true_a church_n or_o no_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n not_o to_o be_v maintain_v by_o fineness_n of_o wit_n or_o quaint_a rhetorical_a discourse_n but_o upon_o sound_a ground_n &_o substantial_a demonstration_n answer_n this_o be_v your_o anticipation_n wherein_o you_o answer_v a_o suppose_a objection_n thereby_o to_o free_v yourself_o from_o fault_n in_o cry_v down_o the_o truth_n and_o true_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n it_o be_v no_o fault_n say_v you_o because_o it_o be_v no_o untruth_n but_o you_o know_v that_o be_v the_o question_n and_o beside_o have_v you_o so_o soon_o forget_v your_o own_o policy_n that_o though_o it_o be_v true_a yet_o the_o countenance_v or_o press_v of_o it_o in_o these_o time_n may_v very_o well_o be_v spare_v can_v you_o imagine_v that_o in_o these_o 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try_v all_o of_o truth_n shall_v depend_v upon_o the_o opinion_n of_o any_o man_n person_n though_o never_o so_o great_a or_o esteem_v in_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o learned_a my_o brethren_n say_v saint_n james_n have_v not_o the_o faith_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n the_o lord_n of_o glory_n with_o respect_n of_o person_n and_o 〈…〉_z saint_n augustine_n against_o maximinus_n a_o arrian_n bishop_n say_v nec_fw-la â—u_n mihi_fw-la ariminense_n nec_fw-la ego_fw-la tibi_fw-la nicenum_n concilium_fw-la objiciam_fw-la etc._n etc._n answer_n this_o be_v the_o three_o argument_n take_v from_o the_o condition_n of_o your_o person_n be_v so_o weak_a and_o unworthy_a to_o deal_v in_o such_o a_o cause_n and_o with_o such_o author_n wherein_o first_o you_o crave_v pardon_n of_o your_o boldness_n and_o after_o clear_v yourself_o of_o such_o imputation_n as_o may_v be_v lay_v to_o your_o charge_n for_o the_o former_a it_o be_v count_v the_o part_n of_o a_o unwise_a man_n to_o crave_v 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forbid_v that_o shall_v depend_v upon_o the_o opinion_n of_o any_o man_n person_n true_a but_o first_o a_o man_n must_v be_v sure_a of_o a_o warrant_n for_o his_o do_v for_o every_o man_n may_v not_o contend_v with_o his_o better_n in_o trial_n of_o truth_n upon_o his_o own_o head_n second_o he_o must_v not_o behave_v himself_o laweâ—ly_o as_o you_o do_v here_o say_v they_o have_v define_v the_o contrary_a tanquam_fw-la è_fw-la cathedra_fw-la else_o it_o may_v fall_v out_o as_o you_o say_v to_o the_o papist_n pag._n 24._o that_o god_n forbid_v will_v not_o serve_v the_o turn_n neither_o will_n s._n james_n who_o will_v not_o have_v many_o mast_n 〈…〉_z s_o speak_v for_o you_o nor_o saint_n augustine_n who_o contend_v with_o his_o fellow_n bishop_n plead_v for_o you_o and_o so_o much_o for_o your_o petition_n burton_n nor_o let_v any_o man_n here_o impute_v presumption_n to_o the_o weakness_n or_o unworthiness_n of_o my_o person_n as_o though_o i_o take_v a_o pride_n to_o be_v 〈…〉_z edle_v with_o such_o high_a matter_n and_o wherein_o great_a one_o be_v interest_v alas_o god_n know_v i_o take_v so_o little_a pride_n herein_o etc._n etc._n answer_n come_v we_o now_o to_o your_o purgation_n wherein_o you_o clear_v yourself_o of_o pride_n and_o presumption_n by_o way_n of_o anticipation_n some_o man_n perhaps_o will_v say_v vbi_fw-la dolour_n ibi_fw-la digitus_fw-la and_o that_o where_o man_n be_v guilty_a of_o great_a weakness_n there_o they_o make_v great_a preparation_n and_o that_o when_o a_o man_n clear_v himself_o without_o a_o accuser_n aliquid_fw-la latet_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la patet_fw-la but_o see_v you_o call_v god_n to_o witness_v i_o have_v rather_o believe_v you_o then_o suspect_v you_o yet_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o tell_v you_o what_o i_o can_v say_v against_o you_o if_o i_o be_v dispose_v notwithstanding_o all_o you_o can_v say_v for_o yourself_o to_o the_o contrary_n first_o david_n ubi_fw-la supra_fw-la make_v it_o a_o infallible_a note_n of_o 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rome_n without_o respect_n to_o the_o orthodox_n truth_n maintain_v therein_o now_o to_o apply_v this_o to_o our_o purpose_n when_o we_o say_v a_o papist_n may_v be_v save_v we_o understand_v it_o in_o the_o former_a &_o more_o large_a sense_n and_o when_o the_o say_v a_o papist_n can_v be_v fave_v he_o understand_v it_o in_o the_o latter_a and_o more_o strict_a sense_n and_o so_o we_o be_v all_o agree_v for_o as_o a_o thief_n or_o a_o murderer_n or_o any_o other_o malefactor_n can_v be_v save_v as_o he_o be_v such_o a_o one_o no_o more_o can_v a_o papist_n as_o he_o hold_v his_o error_n for_o no_o unclean_a thing_n shall_v enter_v into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n this_o be_v the_o former_a point_n of_o his_o sophistry_n the_o other_o be_v in_o the_o word_n renounce_v for_o there_o be_v two_o kind_n of_o renounce_v one_o actual_a and_o express_a another_o virtual_a and_o enfold_v the_o actual_a be_v when_o a_o man_n do_v both_o in_o word_n and_o practice_n separate_v himself_o from_o the_o religion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o virtual_a be_v when_o in_o preparation_n of_o mind_n a_o man_n be_v ready_a to_o doc_fw-fr it_o so_o soon_o as_o it_o shall_v appear_v to_o he_o to_o be_v sinful_a and_o damnable_a when_o therefore_o he_o require_v that_o a_o papist_n that_o must_v be_v save_v shall_v renounce_v his_o popery_n if_o he_o understand_v the_o actual_a renounce_n thereof_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o it_o be_v necessary_a so_o soon_o as_o he_o shall_v know_v and_o be_v convict_v of_o the_o evil_a of_o popery_n but_o if_o he_o never_o be_v convict_v thereof_o so_o long_o as_o he_o live_v then_o we_o say_v the_o virtual_a be_v sufficient_a which_o be_v include_v in_o general_a repentance_n otherwise_o we_o must_v confound_v sin_n know_v with_o unknown_a and_o general_a repentance_n with_o particular_a this_o be_v consider_v a_o man_n may_v easy_o perceive_v how_o a_o simple_a ignorant_a papist_n whether_o learned_a or_o unlearned_a may_v be_v say_v to_o renounce_v his_o popery_n and_o to_o be_v save_v though_o he_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o faith_n and_o religion_n so_o much_o for_o sophistry_n now_o his_o folly_n appear_v in_o this_o that_o he_o will_v have_v we_o to_o hold_v that_o a_o papist_n which_o we_o say_v may_v be_v iave_v by_o a_o general_a faith_n and_o repentance_n be_v save_v as_o a_o papist_n by_o virtue_n of_o his_o popish_a ignorance_n idolatry_n and_o other_o trumpery_n and_o not_o as_o a_o true_a believer_n by_o faith_n in_o christ_n merit_n and_o that_o we_o will_v have_v some_o god-have-mercy_o to_o be_v give_v to_o popery_n or_o silly_a ignorance_n for_o his_o salvation_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v so_o far_o from_o the_o conceit_n of_o any_o well_o dispose_v christian_n that_o all_o of_o we_o must_v acknowledge_v that_o no_o protestant_n as_o a_o protestant_n communicate_v with_o the_o corruption_n of_o several_a church_n dutch_n french_a german_a or_o the_o rest_n none_o of_o 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section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o idle_a repetition_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o have_v be_v former_o urge_v and_o answer_v at_o large_a and_o therefore_o with_o reference_n thereto_o i_o pass_v it_o over_o the_o same_o also_o i_o say_v to_o the_o next_o wherein_o he_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o he_o speak_v the_o truth_n and_o that_o his_o adversary_n do_v divorce_v themselves_o from_o sound_a judgement_n and_o right_a reason_n and_o have_v no_o right_a charity_n but_o such_o as_o call_v evil_a good_a because_o they_o say_v it_o be_v a_o hard_a sentence_n yea_o malicious_a and_o rash_a to_o say_v that_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n there_o be_v no_o salvation_n all_o which_o i_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o the_o reader_n so_o much_o for_o the_o two_o question_n and_o the_o two_o former_a author_n burton_n but_o other_o will_v not_o have_v it_o deny_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a visible_a church_n though_o not_o a_o true_a believe_a church_n answer_n have_v rid_v his_o hand_n of_o his_o two_o former_a author_n with_o a_o kind_n of_o neglect_n as_o i_o say_v afore_o he_o come_v now_o to_o his_o meek_a and_o sweet_a spirit_a author_n a_o reverend_a antistes_fw-la of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n our_o divine_a seneca_n etc._n etc._n against_o who_o he_o bend_v all_o his_o force_n and_o yet_o like_o judas_n as_o you_o see_v betray_v he_o with_o kiss_v may_v not_o i_o say_v to_o he_o as_o horace_n to_o lydia_n in_o another_o case_n lydia_n dic_fw-la per_fw-la omnes_fw-la te_fw-la deos_fw-la oro_fw-la sybarim_n cur_n properas_fw-la amande_fw-fr perdere_fw-la so_o burton_n for_o god_n sake_n tell_v i_o i_o thou_o pray_v why_o thou_o so_o love_o do_v exon_n flay_v i_o acknowledge_v my_o poetry_n may_v be_v blame_v but_o the_o conceit_n may_v be_v pretty_a and_o tolerable_a though_o i_o say_v it_o myself_o for_o to_o say_v the_o truth_n he_o labour_v to_o kill_v he_o with_o kindness_n in_o that_o as_o much_o as_o in_o he_o lie_v he_o blemish_v his_o well_o deserve_a reverend_a and_o honourable_a name_n in_o the_o church_n with_o his_o flatter_a opposition_n but_o he_o must_v be_v pardon_v for_o he_o have_v do_v it_o to_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n and_o the_o confusion_n of_o babylon_n which_o if_o it_o may_v prove_v to_o be_v true_a i_o dare_v be_v bold_a to_o say_v his_o author_n will_v not_o only_o be_v ready_a to_o make_v a_o humble_a and_o ingenuous_a palinody_n or_o retractation_n as_o he_o saucy_o require_v but_o even_o to_o sacrifice_v his_o good_n good_a name_n soul_n and_o body_n for_o ever_o but_o i_o doubt_v he_o have_v do_v god_n glory_n more_o hurt_n and_o babylon_n more_o good_a than_o any_o babylonian_a papist_n have_v do_v these_o many_o year_n author_n that_o which_o laertius_n speak_v of_o menodemus_n that_o in_o dispute_v his_o very_a eye_n will_v sparkle_v be_v true_a of_o many_o of_o we_o who_o zeal_n transport_v they_o to_o such_o a_o detestation_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o if_o 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christ_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v utter_o abrogate_a and_o abolish_v which_o i_o suppose_v heâ—_n will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o do_v burton_n but_o if_o the_o divorce_n be_v sue_v out_o than_o you_o will_v say_v she_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o spouse_n to_o her_o former_a husband_n well_o and_o be_v nor_o that_o divorce_n between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o christ_n yet_o sue_v forth_o yet_o certain_o and_o that_o on_o both_o party_n first_o on_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n part_n when_o say_v you_o in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v we_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n and_o property_n of_o christ_n spouse_n to_o hearken_v to_o her_o husband_n voice_n only_o and_o to_o honour_v he_o psal._n 45._o 11._o luke_n 9_o 35._o but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v take_v out_o a_o bill_n of_o divorce_n and_o have_v emancipate_v herself_o whole_o to_o the_o pope_n as_o her_o husband_n to_o hear_v he_o in_o all_o thing_n from_o that_o time_n forward_o and_o this_o divorce_n be_v ratify_v by_o the_o bull_n of_o pope_n pius_n 4._o super_fw-la forma_fw-la iuramenti_fw-la professionis_fw-la fidei_fw-la in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o council_n answer_n if_o i_o be_v dispose_v to_o pick_v quarrel_n i_o may_v have_v except_v against_o many_o of_o your_o absurd_a phrase_n since_o i_o begin_v to_o deal_v with_o you_o and_o against_o one_o here_o of_o a_o wife_n emancipate_v herself_o to_o another_o husband_n but_o i_o aim_v at_o the_o main_a point_n i_o make_v no_o doubt_n then_o but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v long_o ago_o even_o many_o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n break_v the_o covenant_n of_o her_o god_n and_o still_o abide_v in_o that_o transgression_n and_o so_o deserve_v well_o enough_o to_o be_v divorce_v from_o christ_n for_o ever_o but_o that_o it_o be_v ever_o her_o desire_n to_o separate_v herself_o from_o christ_n it_o will_v never_o be_v prove_v nay_o rather_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v her_o cunning_a to_o make_v he_o a_o cover_n and_o cloak_n of_o all_o her_o whoredom_n and_o abomination_n as_o a_o subtle_a adultress_n deal_v with_o her_o long_a suffering_n and_o patient_a husband_n that_o so_o she_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v a_o matron_n though_o she_o be_v indeed_o a_o notable_a strumpet_n and_o this_o be_v the_o high_a point_n of_o the_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n now_o how_o you_o prove_v the_o contrary_a by_o the_o form_n of_o oath_n of_o obedience_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o of_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o roman_a faith_n decree_v sess._n 24._o cap._n 12._o of_o the_o council_n to_o be_v administer_v and_o take_v and_o according_o perform_v only_o of_o such_o clergy_n man_n as_o be_v to_o be_v prefer_v to_o ecclesiastical_a dignity_n or_o benefice_n with_o cure_n of_o soul_n do_v you_o yourself_o at_o your_o far_a leisure_n consider_v as_o if_o a_o schismatic_a shall_v argue_v by_o the_o oath_n of_o supremacy_n allegiance_n and_o canonical_a obedience_n and_o by_o the_o subscription_n which_o be_v to_o be_v perform_v in_o the_o same_o case_n of_o all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v make_v minister_n or_o admit_v to_o any_o preferment_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n also_o have_v sue_v out_o a_o divorce_n from_o christ_n and_o so_o be_v no_o true_a visible_a church_n which_o god_n forbid_v as_o the_o fanatical_a brownist_n and_o anabaptist_n say_v upon_o the_o self_n same_o reason_n burton_n now_o if_o any_o will_v require_v a_o proof_n on_o christ_n part_n that_o he_o have_v also_o public_o give_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n a_o bill_n of_o divorce_n let_v he_o but_o search_v in_o god_n record_n do_v not_o christ_n revel_v 17._o open_o declare_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v the_o whore_n of_o babylon_n and_o be_v there_o not_o a_o plain_a bill_n of_o divorce_n revel_v 18_o and_o that_o by_o a_o voice_n from_o heaven_n say_v come_v out_o of_o she_o my_o people_n &_o c_o do_v not_o christ_n here_o separate_v his_o own_o people_n his_o own_o spouse_n out_o of_o babylon_n and_o this_o divorce_n on_o christ_n part_n come_v to_o be_v of_o force_n upon_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n second_o marriage_n be_v solemn_o conclude_v and_o christ_n exclude_v what_o need_v be_v say_v more_o to_o prove_v this_o divorce_n and_o that_o on_o both_o side_n answer_n what_o need_v be_v say_v more_o quoth_v you_o marry_v much_o more_o then_o either_o you_o have_v say_v yet_o or_o ever_o will_v be_v able_a to_o say_v i_o trow_v what_o be_v it_o i_o pray_v you_o have_v say_v now_o that_o you_o need_v to_o say_v no_o more_o be_v it_o this_o that_o rome_n and_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o whore_n of_o babylon_n we_o allow_v it_o or_o that_o christ_n will_v have_v his_o people_n to_o separate_v from_o she_o we_o grant_v it_o but_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v marry_v to_o a_o second_o husband_n in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n &_o christ_n exclude_v or_o that_o those_o word_n come_v out_o of_o she_o my_o people_n be_v a_o bill_n of_o divorce_n or_o that_o christ_n by_o they_o separate_v his_o spouse_n from_o she_o we_o utter_o deny_v to_o the_o first_o enough_o have_v be_v say_v in_o the_o last_o answer_n to_o the_o second_o we_o say_v first_o that_z if_o brightman_n your_o best_a master_n say_v true_a this_o place_n must_v not_o be_v understand_v spiritual_o but_o literal_o of_o the_o local_a departure_n of_o god_n people_n out_o of_o rome_n and_o god_n call_v they_o thereto_o at_o the_o last_o overthrow_n and_o destruction_n thereof_o as_o he_o call_v lot_n out_o of_o sodom_n and_o the_o jew_n out_o of_o the_o eastern_a babylon_n in_o the_o same_o word_n &_o the_o church_n out_o of_o jerusalem_n when_o it_o be_v to_o be_v utter_o destroy_v so_o that_o as_o mouse_n i_o use_v his_o own_o similitude_n perceive_v the_o house_n will_v fall_v do_v leave_v it_o and_o run_v away_o so_o the_o people_n of_o god_n warn_v 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the_o wife_n be_v the_o whore_n and_o the_o whore_n be_v babylon_n christ_n intend_v not_o here_o to_o separate_v his_o wife_n or_o spouse_n from_o babylon_n because_o in_o so_o do_v he_o shall_v separate_v his_o wife_n from_o his_o wife_n and_o babylon_n from_o babylon_n which_o imply_v a_o contradiction_n author_n as_o it_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n we_o have_v not_o detract_v to_o hold_v communion_n with_o it_o as_o babylon_n we_o can_v have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o it_o burton_n this_o distinction_n come_v too_o late_o after_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o divorce_n be_v give_v on_o both_o side_n christ_n have_v disclaim_v she_o for_o his_o spouse_n bid_v his_o spouse_n to_o come_v from_o she_o therefore_o who_o god_n separate_v let_v no_o man_n join_v together_o yea_o in_o this_o case_n no_o distinction_n will_v serve_v to_o join_v we_o together_o again_o in_o one_o communion_n herein_o we_o must_v not_o hearken_v to_o the_o voice_n of_o any_o man_n be_v he_o never_o so_o reverend_a before_o or_o against_o the_o voice_n of_o christ_n by_o what_o distinction_n i_o pray_v can_v a_o honest_a and_o chaste_a matron_n salve_v her_o credit_n by_o keep_v company_n or_o have_v communion_n with_o a_o notorious_a strumpet_n will_v it_o not_o seem_v a_o strange_a distinction_n to_o say_v the_o devil_n in_o his_o essence_n be_v good_a we_o detract_v not_o to_o hold_v communion_n with_o he_o but_o as_o a_o devil_n we_o can_v have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o he_o answer_n you_o abuse_v yourself_o and_o the_o reader_n too_o bad_a and_o that_o in_o two_o thing_n first_o in_o blame_v the_o distinction_n second_o in_o scandalize_a your_o author_n the_o distinction_n you_o say_v come_v too_o late_o and_o be_v not_o