be_v every_o body_n else_o that_o i_o can_v speak_v to_o and_o which_o be_v worst_a of_o all_o i_o must_v not_o judge_v between_o these_o different_a party_n which_o of_o they_o speak_v the_o church_n sense_n because_o i_o be_o that_o way_n infallible_o throw_v upon_o my_o own_o sentiment_n which_o be_v as_o private_a as_o can_v be_v in_o this_o state_n there_o be_v no_o council_n sit_v i_o have_v no_o live_a judge_n upon_o earth_n to_o help_v i_o and_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o must_v not_o be_v a_o live_a judge_n for_o myself_o so_o that_o i_o have_v no_o oracle_n to_o go_v to_o but_o a_o few_o dead_a letter_n which_o can_v speak_v and_o i_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o expect_v whilst_o i_o be_o doubt_v whether_o the_o word_n mean_v capisucchi_n or_o de_fw-fr meaux_n sense_n that_o the_o letter_n shall_v disappear_v and_o other_o letter_n rise_v in_o the_o room_n of_o they_o and_o make_v word_n plain_a enough_o to_o end_v the_o dispute_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v we_o must_v do_v as_o the_o vindicator_n give_v leave_v and_o suspend_v our_o judgement_n at_o least_o till_o the_o sit_v of_o the_o next_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n that_o shall_v be_v call_v to_o interpret_v the_o last_o though_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o that_o can_v end_v the_o controversy_n because_o the_o word_n of_o that_o council_n too_o must_v be_v interpret_v by_o private_a sense_n and_o so_o to_o the_o world_n end_n till_o council_n have_v find_v out_o a_o way_n to_o determine_v controversy_n of_o faith_n without_o any_o word_n at_o all_o there_o be_v i_o confess_v one_o way_n leave_v to_o come_v to_o a_o certainty_n of_o the_o church_n sense_n if_o we_o have_v it_o and_o but_o one_o and_o that_o be_v for_o every_o body_n to_o be_v infallible_a for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n that_o they_o will_v take_v we_o off_o from_o the_o scripture_n we_o have_v not_o any_o security_n by_o council_n unless_o we_o have_v a_o infallible_a spirit_n to_o interpret_v and_o then_o i_o fancy_n there_o 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sentiment_n and_o at_o this_o rate_n i_o confess_v it_o will_v be_v impossible_a to_o find_v out_o two_o popery_n in_o the_o church_n because_o popery_n be_v nothing_o but_o the_o church_n sense_n but_o than_o you_o will_v not_o be_v able_a to_o find_v so_o much_o as_o one_o popery_n in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o it_o may_v be_v the_o vindicator_n never_o think_v of_o for_o whilst_o every_o body_n give_v his_o own_o sense_n to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n as_o they_o say_v every_o one_o of_o we_o do_v to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o scripture_n indeed_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a that_o the_o church_n sense_n be_v not_o reach_v by_o any_o of_o the_o private_a sentiment_n of_o man_n but_o who_o have_v have_v the_o good_a luck_n to_o reach_v it_o the_o lord_n know_v for_o it_o be_v a_o happiness_n which_o no_o man_n that_o have_v it_o can_v certain_o say_v that_o he_o have_v and_o therefore_o by_o that_o trick_n which_o serve_v he_o to_o keep_v two_o popery_n out_o of_o the_o church_n he_o have_v unaware_o throw_v out_o all_o popery_n except_v that_o dead_a popery_n that_o lie_v bury_v in_o the_o word_n of_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n thus_o speak_v of_o that_o which_o we_o term_v old_a popery_n and_o his_o party_n condemn_v it_o he_o say_v 6._o pag._n 6._o so_o long_o as_o there_o be_v such_o a_o dispute_n betwixt_o they_o who_o the_o church_n acknowledge_v to_o be_v her_o child_n and_o she_o do_v not_o determine_v it_o any_o one_o may_v hold_v which_o side_n they_o please_v as_o a_o opinion_n or_o suspend_v their_o judgement_n but_o neither_o side_n be_v true_o what_o you_o ought_v to_o mean_v by_o popery_n so_o that_o it_o be_v neither_o popery_n to_o worship_v image_n with_o the_o same_o worship_n that_o be_v due_a to_o what_o they_o represent_v nor_o be_v it_o popery_n to_o worship_v they_o with_o a_o worship_n that_o be_v not_o the_o same_o nor_o be_v it_o popery_n to_o worship_v they_o as_o it_o be_v not_o at_o all_o and_o therefore_o the_o child_n of_o the_o church_n may_v hold_v which_o side_n they_o please_v as_o a_o opinion_n they_o may_v with_o cardinal_n capisucchi_fw-it be_fw-mi of_o the_o opinion_n that_o m._n the_o meaux_n doctrine_n concern_v due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n savour_v of_o heresy_n and_o they_o may_v with_o m._n de_fw-fr meaux_n be_v of_o the_o opinion_n that_o capisucchi_n doctrine_n savour_v of_o idolatry_n and_o they_o that_o be_v of_o the_o former_a opinion_n may_v yet_o with_o the_o cardinal_n approve_v the_o bishop_n exposition_n and_o they_o that_o be_v of_o the_o late_a opinion_n may_v with_o the_o bishop_n say_v that_o the_o cardinal_n in_o his_o treatise_n about_o image_n have_v say_v nothing_o in_o the_o whole_a that_o contradict_v the_o bishop_n in_o short_a we_o may_v take_v due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n in_o this_o sense_n or_o in_o that_o sense_n or_o in_o any_o sense_n wherein_o any_o of_o the_o child_n of_o the_o church_n understand_v it_o or_o if_o you_o please_v no_o sense_n whatsoever_o for_o you_o may_v suspend_v your_o judgement_n and_o if_o the_o vindicator_n be_v in_o the_o right_n that_o what_o he_o have_v say_v in_o this_o case_n be_v applicable_a to_o all_o other_o protestant_n without_o believe_v one_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n more_o than_o they_o do_v already_o may_v be_v say_v to_o have_v as_o much_o doctrinal_a popery_n as_o the_o member_n of_o the_o romish_a church_n itself_o i_o will_v have_v the_o vindicator_n think_v of_o these_o thing_n and_o before_o he_o send_v we_o again_o to_o the_o express_a word_n of_o his_o general_a council_n to_o consider_v how_o his_o friend_n have_v use_v the_o scripture_n and_o we_o for_o make_v they_o the_o rule_n of_o our_o faith._n we_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o find_v in_o express_a word_n of_o their_o general_a council_n every_o thing_n which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n but_o we_o find_v it_o in_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o prevail_a part_n even_o of_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n and_o in_o its_o oppress_v those_o that_o seem_v in_o good_a earnest_n to_o be_v of_o another_o mind_n and_o as_o we_o may_v without_o blame_n call_v that_o popery_n or_o the_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n which_o themselves_o call_v so_o so_o we_o can_v be_v reprove_v for_o say_v that_o their_o popery_n seem_v to_o be_v the_o true_a and_o genuine_a popery_n because_o it_o agree_v vast_o better_o with_o the_o express_a word_n of_o their_o council_n than_o the_o popery_n of_o our_o modern_a expositor_n and_o representer_n but_o yet_o for_o call_v this_o popery_n the_o vindicator_n call_v the_o defender_n a_o misrepresenter_n 7._o pag._n 6_o 7._o a_o misrepresenter_n and_o a_o calumniator_n too_o a_o misrepresenter_n a_o falsifier_n and_o a_o calumniator_n thus_o he_o lay_v about_o he_o without_o fear_n or_o wit_n and_o hurt_v himself_o more_o than_o his_o adversary_n for_o his_o bad_a language_n do_v furnish_v i_o with_o a_o proof_n that_o there_o be_v two_o popery_n among_o they_o which_o the_o dull_a apprehension_n will_v feel_v and_o the_o fine_a shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o distinguish_v away_o to_o take_v the_o vindicator_n instance_n once_o more_o here_o in_o england_n i_o make_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o worship_v image_n and_o crucifix_n with_o the_o same_o worship_n that_o be_v due_a to_o the_o person_n represent_v be_v popery_n and_o for_o this_o by_o a_o authentic_a papist_n i_o be_o call_v a_o misrepresenter_n a_o falsifier_n and_o a_o calumniator_n too_o which_o be_v hard_a word_n and_o i_o will_v not_o willing_o deserve_v they_o i_o will_v therefore_o know_v what_o be_v the_o sincere_a popery_n in_o this_o case_n and_o i_o be_o tell_v that_o image_n be_v not_o proper_o to_o be_v worship_v but_o the_o person_n represent_v
be_v not_o to_o be_v trust_v with_o a_o implicit_a faith_n which_o we_o desire_v not_o to_o be_v but_o rather_o to_o be_v believe_v in_o these_o matter_n so_o far_o as_o we_o prove_v what_o we_o say_v and_o no_o far_o and_o if_o he_o be_v trust_v no_o far_o we_o desire_v no_o more_o iii_o we_o offer_v say_v he_o and_o be_v ready_a to_o accept_v any_o into_o our_o communion_n that_o will_v but_o embrace_v and_o receive_v the_o doctrine_n as_o it_o there_o stand_v in_o his_o first_o book_n under_o those_o very_a colour_n and_o that_o shape_n own_v not_o only_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o but_o even_o that_o appearance_n etc._n etc._n now_o this_o he_o have_v offer_v twice_o or_o thrice_o before_o and_o his_o offer_n have_v be_v as_o often_o answer_v but_o he_o will_v not_o take_v the_o least_o notice_n of_o it_o he_o think_v at_o first_o no_o doubt_n that_o here_o he_o have_v nick_v the_o business_n but_o though_o he_o have_v have_v some_o reason_n to_o fall_v in_o his_o opinion_n of_o the_o proposal_n yet_o he_o come_v over_o with_o it_o as_o if_o this_o too_o remain_v in_o its_o full_a force_n i_o will_v try_v however_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a to_o oblige_v he_o to_o reflect_v upon_o what_o we_o have_v to_o say_v in_o this_o matter_n 1._o then_o this_o offer_v aught_o to_o be_v esteem_v no_o otherwise_o than_o a_o ludicrous_a one_o make_v without_o good_a faith_n and_o with_o no_o other_o meaning_n than_o to_o put_v some_o colour_n upon_o his_o own_o deceitful_a character_n of_o a_o papist_n because_o he_o have_v be_v tell_v and_o indeed_o can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o it_o before_o that_o we_o can_v swallow_v popery_n even_o as_o he_o have_v smooth_v and_o gild_v it_o for_o we_o he_o have_v in_o the_o first_o answer_n to_o his_o book_n our_o reason_n against_o popery_n as_o by_o he_o represent_v which_o he_o do_v not_o and_o i_o imagine_v dare_v not_o reply_v to_o and_o so_o long_o as_o our_o reason_n be_v good_a against_o that_o which_o he_o confess_v to_o be_v popery_n he_o offer_v a_o vain_a trial_n of_o his_o sincerity_n about_o that_o which_o he_o deny_v to_o be_v so_o because_o he_o know_v that_o as_o the_o case_n stand_v it_o be_v impossible_a for_o we_o if_o we_o will_v keep_v a_o good_a conscience_n to_o accept_v the_o offer_n and_o therefore_o this_o belove_a offer_n of_o he_o which_o he_o intend_v for_o a_o varnish_n to_o set_v off_o his_o character_n will_v to_o all_o man_n that_o can_v use_v their_o eye_n give_v a_o just_a occasion_n to_o suspect_v they_o be_v false_a and_o that_o the_o sincerity_n he_o have_v use_v in_o his_o representation_n be_v of_o one_o piece_n with_o that_o which_o he_o have_v show_v in_o his_o proposal_n to_o which_o i_o may_v add_v that_o if_o we_o be_v very_o sure_o that_o his_o character_n be_v deceitful_a if_o we_o see_v that_o himself_o decline_v the_o defence_n of_o they_o and_o that_o no_o importunity_n will_v provoke_v he_o to_o undertake_v the_o vindication_n of_o they_o and_o that_o he_o write_v time_n after_o time_n to_o excuse_v himself_o from_o it_o we_o can_v have_v just_a cause_n to_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v not_o deceitful_a in_o the_o offer_n he_o make_v upon_o such_o character_n 2._o suppose_v that_o we_o can_v accept_v and_o shall_v be_v accept_v here_o upon_o the_o term_n he_o propound_v yet_o we_o have_v no_o security_n that_o when_o we_o be_v in_o this_o representer_n either_o can_v or_o will_v if_o he_o can_v save_v we_o from_o be_v press_v to_o profess_v and_o practice_v that_o popery_n which_o he_o either_o deny_v or_o conceal_v on_o the_o one_o hand_n we_o be_v very_o certain_a that_o the_o prevail_a part_n of_o his_o church_n hold_v that_o which_o he_o either_o reject_v from_o his_o faith_n or_o say_v nothing_o of_o and_o if_o we_o understand_v any_o thing_n that_o they_o declare_v agreeable_o to_o their_o council_n and_o public_a office_n on_o the_o other_o hand_n we_o have_v no_o reason_n at_o all_o to_o believe_v his_o authority_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v considerable_a enough_o to_o carry_v on_o his_o representation_n when_o the_o turn_n be_v once_o serve_v or_o to_o secure_v we_o from_o be_v serve_v in_o due_a time_n as_o mounseur_fw-fr imbert_n have_v be_v who_o be_v base_o leave_v in_o the_o lurch_n by_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n after_o he_o have_v declare_v for_o worship_v not_o the_o wood_n but_o christ_n not_o the_o cross_n but_o he_o that_o suffer_v on_o it_o where_o the_o inquisition_n be_v set_v up_o can_v this_o man_n that_o talk_v as_o if_o he_o be_v somebody_o govern_v the_o proceed_n by_o his_o character_n if_o he_o think_v that_o he_o can_v that_o be_v a_o new_a reason_n to_o suspect_v that_o his_o wit_n be_v set_v aside_o by_o self-conceit_n if_o that_o he_o can_v not_o what_o conscience_n can_v it_o be_v in_o he_o to_o try_v if_o he_o can_v draw_v we_o into_o snare_n and_o by_o his_o new_a popery_n wheedle_n we_o into_o a_o subjection_n to_o the_o roman_a see_v and_o so_o into_o a_o necessity_n of_o be_v use_v as_o the_o physician_n at_o goa_n be_v xxvii_o relation_n de_fw-fr l'inquisition_n de_fw-mi goa_n chap._n xxvii_o who_o suffer_v under_o the_o inquisition_n for_o two_o thing_n whereof_o one_o be_v no_o more_o than_o his_o declare_v as_o his_o accuser_n say_v that_o a_o ivory_n crucifix_n be_v a_o piece_n of_o ivory_n which_o i_o shall_v think_v may_v as_o safe_o be_v say_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o new_a popery_n as_o what_o the_o representer_n offer_v may_v be_v do_v viz._n to_o burn_v a_o image_n or_o a_o crucifix_n if_o that_o will_v satisfy_v we_o that_o he_o have_v no_o superstition_n in_o these_o thing_n for_o as_o i_o remember_v he_o talk_v at_o that_o rate_n but_o then_o again_o if_o the_o representer_n be_v a_o man_n of_o that_o figure_n in_o his_o church_n as_o to_o be_v able_a to_o save_v we_o in_o a_o time_n of_o exigence_n we_o have_v not_o yet_o any_o good_a reason_n to_o trust_v he_o that_o he_o will_v be_v willing_a to_o do_v so_o for_o he_o have_v not_o give_v we_o reasonable_a assurance_n that_o himself_o reject_v that_o popery_n which_o he_o know_v we_o call_v so_o i_o shall_v therefore_o take_v the_o same_o liberty_n with_o he_o that_o he_o have_v do_v with_o we_o and_o put_v he_o upon_o a_o test_n which_o i_o think_v he_o can_v honest_o refuse_v he_o have_v tax_v his_o answerer_n with_o charge_v the_o determination_n of_o schoolman_n and_o the_o sentiment_n of_o private_a author_n and_o some_o passage_n in_o old_a missal_n and_o ritual_n upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o if_o her_o doctrine_n be_v to_o be_v conclude_v from_o thence_o i_o will_v not_o here_o repeat_v what_o have_v be_v say_v in_o answer_n to_o it_o but_o this_o i_o say_v will_v the_o representer_n be_v content_a to_o go_v through_o his_o thirty_o seven_o point_n as_o they_o be_v consider_v by_o his_o first_o answerer_n and_o make_v his_o mark_n upon_o every_o thing_n which_o he_o reject_v and_o which_o he_o say_v we_o false_o charge_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o declare_v before_o the_o world_n upon_o his_o honest_a word_n what_o it_o be_v that_o he_o believe_v to_o be_v impious_a there_o and_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v fasten_v upon_o his_o church_n this_o perhaps_o will_v be_v something_o and_o we_o who_o be_v not_o a_o little_a dispose_v to_o hope_v well_o of_o other_o man_n may_v then_o conceive_v ourselves_o oblige_v to_o think_v that_o he_o mean_v honest_o he_o have_v more_o than_o once_o or_o twice_o offer_v that_o his_o church_n shall_v receive_v we_o upon_o his_o term_n and_o he_o have_v be_v answer_v but_o as_o i_o do_v remember_v he_o have_v be_v ask_v whether_o he_o will_v refuse_v we_o if_o we_o desire_v to_o come_v into_o the_o roman_a communion_n with_o that_o which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n but_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o he_o have_v answer_v to_o that_o and_o yet_o i_o will_v assure_v he_o this_o be_v a_o very_a material_a question_n and_o which_o i_o will_v make_v he_o take_v notice_n of_o here_o if_o i_o can_v will_v the_o representer_n take_v we_o by_o the_o hand_n and_o present_v we_o to_o his_o church_n if_o we_o shall_v come_v with_o the_o lateran_n popery_n about_o depose_v sovereign_n for_o heresy_n and_o with_o the_o trent_n popery_n about_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n as_o it_o be_v understand_v by_o bellarmine_n or_o rather_o by_o capisucchi_fw-it and_o as_o it_o be_v practise_v by_o the_o tartuff_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o with_o all_o that_o old_a popery_n which_o the_o answerer_n give_v a_o account_n of_o if_o he_o will_v not_o undertake_v for_o we_o upon_o these_o term_n let_v he_o do_v two_o thing_n which_o may_v fair_o
for_o those_o advice_n do_v not_o only_o of_o themselves_o intimate_v that_o there_o be_v some_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n who_o need_v they_o but_o by_o the_o opposition_n that_o be_v make_v against_o it_o they_o show_v too_o that_o there_o be_v some_o practice_n condemn_v there_o which_o the_o prevail_a part_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n can_v not_o bear_v the_o condemnation_n of_o the_o vindicator_n indeed_o will_v make_v we_o believe_v 5._o pag._n 5._o that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o to_o answer_v for_o the_o extravagancy_n condemn_v in_o those_o advice_n because_o she_o have_v always_o take_v care_n to_o instruct_v the_o people_n better_o but_o he_o regard_v not_o what_o he_o say_v i_o pray_v what_o care_n do_v she_o take_v to_o instruct_v they_o better_o when_o monsieur_n widenfelt_n who_o take_v a_o little_a honest_a care_n about_o it_o be_v serve_v as_o father_n crasset_fw-la assure_v we_o he_o be_v when_o the_o holy_a see_v condemn_v he_o when_o spain_n banish_v he_o and_o forbid_v the_o read_n and_o print_n of_o his_o book_n and_o in_o a_o word_n when_o the_o learned_a of_o all_o nation_n be_v say_v to_o condemn_v he_o and_o all_o this_o but_o for_o advise_v the_o people_n better_o the_o vindicator_n call_v this_o a_o scandalous_a insinuation_n and_o say_v that_o the_o defender_n know_v it_o to_o be_v such_o and_o talk_v as_o if_o he_o have_v prove_v it_o without_o say_v a_o word_n where_o he_o have_v do_v so_o and_o yet_o father_n crasset_fw-la publish_v it_o no_o long_o ago_o than_o in_o the_o year_n 1679._o in_o the_o preface_n to_o his_o la_n veritable_a devotion_n etc._n etc._n what_o shall_v we_o do_v with_o this_o man_n who_o grow_v rude_a when_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o say_v to_o the_o argument_n and_o will_v then_o have_v we_o to_o speak_v against_o our_o conscience_n when_o he_o either_o do_v so_o himself_o or_o talk_v of_o thing_n without_o knowledge_n he_o say_v the_o defender_n have_v give_v we_o in_o another_o place_n it_o may_v be_v through_o forgetfulness_n a_o short_a answer_n to_o this_o they_o who_o oppose_v that_o book_n of_o wholesome_a advice_n be_v not_o therefore_o enemy_n to_o every_o one_o of_o those_o particular_n but_o how_o be_v this_o a_o answer_n to_o it_o for_o they_o must_v oppose_v it_o for_o something_o or_o other_o that_o m._n de_fw-fr meaux_n be_v bind_v to_o answer_v for_o for_o m._n widâ—nfelt_n allow_v as_o much_o to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n as_o m._n de_fw-fr meaux_n do_v and_o m._n de_fw-fr meaux_n will_v be_v think_v to_o deny_v all_o that_o widenfelt_n deny_v to_o she_o when_o crasset_fw-la be_v at_o leisure_n to_o tell_v we_o what_o those_o particular_n be_v which_o he_o and_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o learned_a of_o all_o nation_n do_v condemn_v we_o shall_v then_o know_v more_o particular_o what_o we_o be_v undoubted_o assure_v of_o in_o the_o general_n viz._n that_o crasset_fw-la bring_v the_o universal_a church_n against_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n for_o i_o say_v it_o again_o m._n widenfelt_n allow_v as_o much_o honour_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n as_o the_o bishop_n exposition_n do_v the_o consequence_n of_o all_o this_o be_v clear_a if_o the_o bishop_n have_v expound_v popery_n to_o we_o as_o they_o say_v he_o have_v and_o if_o for_o all_o that_o the_o bishop_n exposition_n be_v as_o father_z crasset_fw-la assure_v we_o widenfelt_n advice_n be_v a_o outrage_n to_o the_o whole_a church_n then_o of_o necessity_n there_o must_v be_v two_o popery_n among_o they_o and_o these_o not_o only_o different_a from_o but_o outrageous_o contrary_a to_o one_o another_o and_o here_o i_o will_v take_v notice_n of_o the_o vindicator_n exception_n to_o crasset_n testimony_n for_o a_o old_a popery_n father_n crasset_fw-la say_v he_o be_v again_o bring_v upon_o the_o stage_n for_o defend_v what_o he_o himself_o do_v not_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o therefore_o belong_v not_o to_o what_o you_o call_v popery_n at_o all_o this_o man_n will_v fain_o say_v something_o if_o he_o know_v what_o do_v nothing_o then_o belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o which_o father_n crasset_fw-la do_v not_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n i_o be_o somewhat_o sure_a that_o father_n crasset_fw-la will_v not_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n that_o no_o more_o honour_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o virgin_n than_o what_o mr._n widenfelt_n or_o m._n de_fw-fr meaux_n allow_v to_o be_v give_v to_o she_o nay_o instead_o of_o defend_v we_o be_v very_o sure_a that_o he_o have_v oppose_v that_o doctrine_n and_o do_v not_o the_o bishop_n exposition_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n in_o this_o point_n belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o but_o let_v this_o pass_n at_o present_a fa._n crasset_fw-la defend_v in_o gross_a what_o widenfelt_n condemn_v and_o do_v withal_o defend_v it_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n to_o what_o he_o take_v widenfelt_n book_n to_o be_v a_o outrage_n and_o if_o crasset_fw-la believe_v what_o he_o defend_v not_o only_o to_o belong_v to_o popery_n but_o to_o be_v the_o true_a and_o genuine_a popery_n of_o the_o church_n this_o man_n hurt_v himself_o and_o not_o we_o by_o do_v all_o he_o can_v to_o prove_v that_o crasset_n doctrine_n can_v belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o this_o be_v what_o we_o say_v that_o some_o of_o they_o call_v that_o popery_n which_o other_o deny_v to_o be_v so_o and_o that_o what_o be_v heretofore_o universal_o maintain_v as_o popery_n and_o be_v so_o maintain_v by_o the_o most_o considerable_a as_o well_o as_o the_o most_o numerous_a party_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n now_o be_v by_o some_o other_o that_o we_o have_v to_o do_v with_o reject_v as_o not_o belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o which_o make_v good_a what_o the_o defender_n say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o in_o our_o calumny_n that_o this_o reflect_a distinction_n be_v to_o be_v find_v but_o in_o the_o real_a disagreement_n of_o those_o of_o their_o own_o communion_n but_o because_o these_o man_n be_v always_o fly_v to_o the_o church_n sense_n to_o make_v they_o and_o the_o old_a papist_n one_o though_o all_o the_o world_n see_v that_o they_o be_v divide_v about_o this_o question_n what_o be_v popery_n therefore_o the_o defender_n be_v desirous_a to_o know_v what_o at_o last_o this_o thing_n call_v the_o church_n sense_n be_v and_o how_o we_o may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o it_o to_o both_o part_n of_o this_o question_n the_o vindicator_n condescend_v though_o with_o some_o frown_v to_o return_v a_o answer_n first_o 5._o pag._n 5._o say_v he_o the_o church_n sense_n in_o our_o case_n be_v that_o which_o she_o deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n or_o a_o necessary_a practice_n i_o shall_v be_v too_o troublesome_a to_o he_o to_o ask_v upon_o this_o occasion_n what_o he_o shall_v mean_v by_o those_o word_n in_o our_o case_n and_o by_o some_o other_o expression_n that_o occur_v in_o the_o interpretation_n of_o this_o answer_n i_o shall_v therefore_o take_v his_o answer_n without_o any_o exception_n to_o it_o that_o the_o church_n sense_n in_o our_o case_n be_v what_o she_o deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n or_o a_o necessary_a practice_n but_o how_o shall_v we_o come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o this_o sense_n 6._o pag._n 6._o to_o this_o he_o answer_v by_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n and_o by_o she_o universal_o practise_v such_o thing_n as_o necessary_a that_o be_v to_o say_v 1._o we_o be_v to_o know_v what_o she_o deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n by_o her_o voice_n in_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n 2._o we_o be_v to_o know_v what_o she_o deliver_v as_o a_o necessary_a practice_n by_o she_o universal_o practise_v such_o thing_n as_o necessary_a this_o i_o take_v to_o be_v his_o meaning_n and_o to_o these_o two_o particular_n some_o little_a i_o have_v to_o say_v with_o the_o vindicator_n good_a leave_n and_o first_o of_o the_o former_a i._o where_o i_o desire_v he_o not_o to_o take_v it_o ill_o if_o i_o ask_v he_o one_o question_n or_o two_o with_o some_o under_o question_n which_o can_v be_v spare_v for_o if_o he_o have_v no_o mind_n to_o answer_v they_o he_o may_v let_v it_o alone_o the_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o know_v what_o the_o church_n deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n but_o by_o her_o voice_n in_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n the_o reason_n of_o the_o question_n be_v this_o because_o if_o there_o be_v another_o way_n and_o if_o the_o gentleman_n of_o the_o old_a popery_n shall_v chance_v to_o prove_v their_o doctrine_n to_o be_v the_o church_n sense_n that_o way_n the_o vindicator_n will_v be_v at_o
they_o be_v both_o of_o they_o like_o a_o pair_n of_o diamond_n hard_a and_o sharp_a and_o nothing_o can_v cut_v the_o one_o so_o handsome_o as_o his_o fellow_n if_o they_o shall_v chance_v to_o fall_v foul_a it_o will_v be_v indeed_o a_o comical_a end_n of_o the_o controversy_n and_o not_o unsuitable_a to_o the_o representer_n who_o study_v to_o make_v a_o farce_n of_o it_o when_o he_o bring_v in_o his_o fanatic_a sermon_n but_o let_v they_o make_v what_o end_n of_o it_o they_o please_v there_o be_v a_o time_n when_o it_o be_v decent_a for_o we_o to_o give_v over_o that_o as_o hitherto_o truth_n have_v lose_v no_o ground_n for_o want_v of_o argument_n so_o it_o may_v lose_v no_o honour_n by_o want_n of_o discretion_n i_o have_v give_v up_o the_o representer_n and_o shall_v but_o once_o more_o trouble_v the_o vindicator_n which_o will_v be_v more_o than_o enough_o for_o he_o since_o ere_o long_o he_o may_v expect_v from_o his_o antagonist_n such_o a_o account_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n as_o will_v be_v esteem_v by_o judicious_a and_o impartial_a man_n a_o final_a determination_n of_o that_o controversy_n the_o content_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o representer_n his_o extravagance_n in_o divert_v to_o the_o case_n of_o the_o dissenter_n page_z 1_o and_o his_o indiscretion_n in_o upbraid_v we_o with_o their_o suffering_n page_z 5_o that_o the_o discourse_n against_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o scurrilous_a page_z 9_o his_o pretence_n that_o we_o have_v write_v against_o popery_n without_o success_n be_v false_a and_o impertinent_a if_o it_o be_v true_a page_z 10_o that_o the_o papist_n be_v to_o thank_v the_o representer_n for_o the_o revival_n of_o these_o controversy_n page_z 13_o that_o he_o now_o write_v to_o praise_v himself_o and_o what_o he_o have_v write_v before_o page_n 16_o and_o press_v upon_o we_o with_o mere_a confidence_n and_o tedious_a repetition_n page_n 21_o that_o he_o be_v a_o false_a representer_n because_o he_o have_v conceal_v one_o part_n of_o the_o character_n of_o a_o papist_n page_n 28_o the_o folly_n of_o his_o clamour_n that_o we_o pretend_v to_o know_v what_o popery_n be_v better_o than_o the_o papist_n page_n 29_o his_o offer_n to_o receive_v we_o into_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n upon_o the_o term_n which_o he_o propound_v consider_v page_n 31_o that_o we_o can_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n accept_v his_o offer_n page_n 32_o that_o if_o we_o can_v he_o can_v give_v we_o no_o security_n against_o old_a popery_n page_n 33_o that_o if_o he_o be_v able_a to_o secure_v we_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o think_v that_o he_o be_v willing_a page_n 34_o his_o insincerity_n in_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o detest_v some_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n with_o which_o his_o answerer_n charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o in_o refuse_v to_o say_v what_o they_o be_v in_o particular_a page_n 35_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o these_o offer_v to_o receive_v we_o upon_o the_o profession_n of_o his_o new_a popery_n page_n 38_o and_o this_o exemplify_v by_o the_o term_n upon_o which_o the_o convert_v of_o the_o city_n of_o orange_n be_v reconcile_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n p._n 39_o that_o he_o have_v abuse_v mr._n montague_n by_o a_o false_a representation_n of_o his_o judgement_n concern_v the_o homily_n of_o our_o church_n p._n 45_o that_o he_o continue_v his_o charge_n of_o misrepresentation_n upon_o some_o of_o our_o man_n without_o reply_v to_o the_o answer_v make_v in_o their_o defence_n p._n 49_o but_o make_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o the_o author_n of_o the_o view_n confess_v what_o that_o author_n clear_o diprove_v pag._n 53_o his_o pretence_n for_o decline_v a_o particular_a answer_n to_o the_o view_n pag._n 57_o his_o pleasant_a way_n of_o prove_v that_o he_o have_v not_o forsake_v the_o defence_n of_o his_o double_a character_n pag._n 58_o a_o brief_a rehearsal_n of_o the_o representer_n performance_n pag._n 66_o the_o content_n of_o the_o reply_n to_o the_o vindicator_n that_o the_o apology_n of_o the_o new_a convert_v in_o france_n be_v a_o clear_a evidence_n both_o that_o the_o distinction_n between_o old_a popery_n and_o new_a popery_n be_v general_o understand_v there_o and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o distinction_n without_o a_o difference_n pag._n 71_o that_o he_o strive_v in_o vain_a to_o show_v the_o case_n of_o monsieur_n imbert_n to_o be_v no_o argument_n of_o such_o a_o difference_n pag._n 78_o that_o the_o new_a popery_n be_v offer_v for_o the_o sake_n of_o the_o old_a one_o pag._n 82_o the_o good-friday_n service_n of_o the_o missal_n as_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o cross_n once_o more_o explain_v pag._n 83_o how_o matter_n stand_v between_o mr._n de_fw-fr meaux_n mr._n widenfelt_n and_o father_n crasset_fw-la as_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o b._n virgin._n pag._n 85_o the_n vindicator_n rule_n to_o know_v the_o church_n sense_n in_o these_o thing_n by_o her_o general_n council_n and_o by_o her_o universal_a practice_n consider_v pag._n 88_o that_o if_o there_o be_v another_o way_n to_o know_v the_o church_n sense_n in_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n beside_o her_o voice_n in_o general_a council_n and_o two_o popery_n be_v make_v to_o appear_v that_o way_n the_o vindicator_n get_v nothing_o by_o council_n p._n 90_o that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n yet_o even_o by_o this_o way_n it_o be_v demonstrate_v that_o they_o have_v two_o popery_n among_o they_o pag._n 93_o that_o the_o vindicator_n have_v bring_v thing_n to_o that_o pass_n that_o he_o make_v council_n as_o insignificant_a as_o the_o representer_n have_v make_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v pag._n 101_o that_o to_o avoid_v two_o popery_n he_o have_v in_o truth_n not_o leave_v so_o much_o as_o one_o popery_n among_o papist_n pag._n 105_o but_o after_o all_o the_o ill_a language_n we_o have_v from_o the_o vindicator_n here_o for_o not_o grant_v that_o his_o be_v the_o true_a popery_n and_o the_o ill_a usage_n we_o shall_v meet_v with_o elsewhere_o for_o contend_v that_o it_o be_v the_o true_a one_o be_v a_o sensible_a demonstration_n of_o two_o popery_n pag._n 106_o a_o final_a defence_n of_o our_o charge_n against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n about_o the_o veneration_n of_o relic_n pag._n 107_o of_o judge_v of_o the_o church_n sense_n by_o her_o universal_a practice_n pag._n 110_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n argue_v against_o the_o pagan_n from_o their_o practice_n show_v to_o be_v good_a against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n pag._n 111_o that_o the_o vindicator_n have_v utter_o ruin_v the_o representer_n design_n pag._n 113_o and_o at_o the_o same_o time_n betray_v the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n exposition_n too_o pag._n 118_o particular_a reply_v to_o what_o remain_v in_o his_o full_a answer_n pag._n 120_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o representer_n reflection_n upon_o the_o state_n and_o view_n of_o the_o controversy_n his_o first_o reflection_n upon_o the_o stater_n be_v for_o misrepresent_v the_o case_n of_o the_o dissenter_n have_v the_o stater_n do_v so_o the_o representer_n have_v business_n enough_o of_o his_o own_o to_o let_v they_o speak_v for_o themselves_o but_o he_o have_v a_o better_a opinion_n of_o himself_o than_o so_o hitherto_o say_v he_o i_o have_v be_v concern_v with_o such_o who_o have_v most_o unjust_o traduce_v and_o expose_v the_o doctrine_n and_o faith_n of_o our_o church_n 1._o pref._n p._n 1._o and_o now_o of_o late_a a_o upstart_n sort_n of_o misrepresenter_n have_v call_v upon_o i_o who_o pretend_v to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o present_a state_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v just_a as_o if_o he_o have_v say_v have_v not_o i_o for_o this_o three_o year_n and_o upward_o so_o maul_v the_o traducer_n and_o exposer_n of_o papist_n that_o they_o feel_v it_o to_o this_o very_a hour_n how_o then_o dare_v this_o upstart_n sort_n of_o misrepresenter_n show_v his_o head_n as_o if_o there_o be_v not_o such_o a_o man_n as_o i_o in_o the_o nation_n to_o this_o tune_n he_o begin_v which_o be_v not_o seemly_a in_o a_o man_n who_o character_n require_v more_o humility_n and_o modesty_n than_o this_o come_v to_o for_o i_o be_o tell_v he_o be_v a_o reverend_a father_n which_o make_v i_o the_o more_o sorry_a for_o he_o i_o be_o resolve_v to_o be_v very_o civil_a to_o the_o representer_n but_o as_o he_o have_v behave_v himself_o i_o be_o at_o a_o great_a loss_n how_o to_o express_v it_o his_o fall_n upon_o the_o forementioned_a author_n as_o a_o misrepresenter_n and_o the_o pretence_n upon_o which_o he_o do_v it_o too_o be_v so_o very_a much_o out_o of_o the_o common_a road_n of_o pertinence_n that_o i_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o he_o it_o look_v as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v a_o little_a unsettled_a with_o that_o overween_a opinion_n i_o mention_v just_a now_o and_o than_o
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one_o as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o case_n but_o there_o be_v this_o reason_n to_o think_v that_o they_o be_v rather_o the_o discourse_n than_o the_o penalty_n which_o fill_v our_o church_n that_o the_o prosecution_n have_v be_v at_o a_o end_n a_o good_a while_n and_o it_o be_v therefore_o to_o be_v hope_v that_o the_o virtue_n of_o the_o discourse_n do_v the_o good_a work_n at_o first_o and_o go_v on_o to_o do_v it_o still_o for_o whatever_o the_o representer_n fancy_n the_o church_n be_v as_o full_a at_o this_o day_n as_o they_o be_v in_o those_o time_n when_o he_o pretend_v the_o church_n of_o england_n take_v the_o lash_n in_o hand_n they_o be_v so_o full_a that_o a_o reverend_a father_n may_v come_v to_o spy_v and_o hearken_v and_o think_v to_o escape_v in_o the_o throng_n without_o be_v observe_v and_o what_o if_o the_o representer_n have_v be_v upon_o this_o mission_n himself_o then_o i_o say_v he_o shall_v represent_v for_o those_o that_o will_v trust_v he_o but_o for_o i_o and_o my_o friend_n never_o whilst_o he_o breathe_v as_o for_o his_o story_n of_o one_o mr._n 2._o p._n 2._o the_o lawn_n i_o know_v nothing_o of_o it_o the_o representer_n say_v he_o write_v a_o book_n and_o be_v send_v to_o the_o compter_n but_o he_o do_v not_o say_v it_o be_v for_o write_v that_o book_n though_o he_o will_v insinuate_v some_o such_o matter_n from_o which_o modesty_n of_o he_o if_o there_o be_v any_o truth_n at_o all_o in_o the_o story_n one_o may_v venture_v to_o conclude_v that_o he_o know_v the_o man_n be_v send_v to_o prison_n for_o something_o else_o and_o yet_o if_o he_o be_v send_v to_o prison_n for_o the_o write_n of_o that_o book_n but_o if_o neither_o that_o divine_a who_o he_o write_v against_o nor_o any_o of_o the_o rest_n contribute_v to_o it_o so_o much_o as_o by_o a_o wish_n the_o representer_n sting_v we_o not_o by_o this_o reflection_n of_o this_o i_o have_v tell_v he_o something_o of_o my_o own_o knowledge_n already_o for_o what_o he_o say_v of_o some_o that_o be_v starve_v and_o of_o orphan_n and_o widow_n that_o be_v make_v so_o by_o the_o penalty_n inflict_v upon_o the_o dissenter_n it_o be_v to_o be_v hope_v that_o our_o representer_n overdoes_a the_o business_n and_o rant_v somewhat_o too_o tragical_o 3._o p._n 3._o for_o my_o part_n i_o have_v always_o think_v that_o the_o use_n of_o those_o persuasive_n which_o he_o talk_v of_o do_v at_o the_o long_o run_v more_o mischief_n to_o a_o church_n than_o good_a and_o if_o i_o may_v speak_v my_o own_o experience_n i_o do_v not_o find_v this_o spirit_n of_o moderation_n to_o prevail_v any_o where_o so_o much_o as_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o the_o representer_n bring_v over_o the_o suffering_n of_o dissenter_n for_o nothing_o else_o but_o to_o prejudice_v they_o against_o we_o i_o will_v not_o here_o enter_v into_o a_o enquiry_n what_o reason_n there_o be_v for_o it_o but_o this_o one_o thing_n i_o will_v say_v that_o i_o be_o no_o less_o desirous_a than_o himself_o that_o the_o dissenter_n shall_v be_v very_o often_o tell_v of_o their_o suffering_n in_o those_o time_n only_o if_o a_o man_n will_v be_v tell_v they_o then_o as_o the_o representer_n say_v it_o will_v do_v well_o not_o to_o tell_v the_o story_n by_o half_n but_o if_o he_o do_v than_o to_o return_v he_o some_o of_o his_o own_o word_n i_o do_v not_o think_v that_o with_o all_o his_o poor_a shift_n 3._o p._n 3._o his_o reader_n will_v be_v impose_v upon_o in_o a_o matter_n so_o well_o know_v and_o therefore_o i_o no_o less_o than_o the_o representer_n desire_v that_o the_o dissenter_n will_v think_v of_o all_o that_o be_v past_a as_o long_o as_o they_o have_v a_o day_n to_o live_v as_o to_o the_o tract_n that_o be_v soon_o after_o write_v against_o the_o papist_n the_o representer_n observe_v that_o two_o thing_n be_v not_o mention_v by_o the_o stater_n upon_o this_o occasion_n which_o we_o have_v upon_o the_o former_a not_o the_o plain_a and_o inoffensive_a manner_n of_o write_v nor_o any_o news_n of_o success_n which_o these_o discourse_n have_v upon_o the_o party_n design_v for_o the_o former_a he_o say_v 5._o p._n 5._o that_o the_o stater_n be_v too_o conscious_a of_o the_o scurrilous_a and_o bitter_a spirit_n with_o which_o some_o of_o they_o be_v pen_v that_o one_o against_o transubstantiation_n be_v instance_n enough_o by_o which_o he_o will_v insinuate_v that_o other_o of_o they_o too_o be_v write_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n how_o hard_o be_v it_o for_o some_o man_n to_o be_v sincere_a in_o any_o thing_n i_o remember_v indeed_o some_o of_o these_o expression_n in_o that_o discourse_n which_o he_o produce_v such_o
as_o impudence_n nonsense_n monstrous_a stupidity_n and_o the_o like_a but_o i_o will_v know_v of_o the_o representer_n whether_o there_o can_v be_v any_o just_a occasion_n for_o let_v these_o word_n loose_a and_o to_o the_o sense_n and_o reason_n of_o mankind_n i_o may_v appeal_v if_o there_o can_v be_v a_o occasion_n more_o just_a than_o this_o for_o it_o be_v impossible_a we_o shall_v have_v great_a evidence_n that_o any_o thing_n be_v true_a than_o we_o have_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v false_a and_o then_o i_o may_v ask_v the_o representer_n whether_o it_o be_v not_o the_o great_a abuse_n that_o ever_o be_v put_v upon_o mankind_n this_o argument_n therefore_o will_v bear_v a_o little_a more_o quickness_n than_o be_v think_v convenient_a for_o the_o handle_n of_o the_o rest_n but_o here_o lie_v the_o sting_n of_o the_o representer_n charge_n that_o transubstantiation_n be_v a_o subject_a in_o which_o so_o many_o learned_a and_o virtuous_a man_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v near_o concern_v to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v so_o much_o the_o worse_o for_o the_o christian_a world_n but_o not_o for_o the_o author_n of_o that_o discourse_n for_o if_o indeed_o learned_a man_n and_o virrtuous_a man_n espouse_v such_o a_o monstrous_a doctrine_n as_o that_o of_o transubstantiation_n there_o be_v not_o less_o but_o great_a cause_n to_o exclaim_v both_o against_o they_o and_o it_o if_o the_o representer_n think_v that_o the_o learning_n and_o virtue_n of_o the_o man_n shall_v have_v gain_v some_o more_o reverence_n for_o the_o cause_n than_o that_o author_n have_v for_o it_o he_o may_v think_v so_o still_o for_o i_o i_o will_v not_o go_v about_o to_o question_v the_o learning_n and_o the_o virtue_n of_o many_o that_o hold_v transubstantiation_n but_o it_o be_v transubstantiation_n still_o i_o think_v it_o be_v no_o question_n but_o there_o be_v many_o learned_a and_o virtuous_a man_n in_o egypt_n who_o be_v near_o concern_v in_o the_o business_n of_o make_v god_n of_o thing_n that_o grow_v in_o their_o garden_n and_o yet_o he_o have_v not_o be_v too_o blame_v that_o shall_v have_v say_v it_o be_v impudence_n nonsense_n and_o monstrous_a stupidity_n to_o worship_n and_o to_o teach_v other_o to_o worship_n leek_n and_o onion_n now_o for_o the_o second_o observation_n 5._o p._n 5._o that_o we_o have_v no_o news_n of_o any_o success_n those_o discourse_n have_v upon_o the_o party_n design_v i_o say_v if_o they_o have_v indeed_o no_o success_n the_o stater_n be_v the_o honest_a man_n not_o to_o say_v they_o have_v any_o though_o he_o escape_v here_o very_o well_o that_o he_o be_v not_o make_v a_o misrepresenter_n for_o not_o confess_v that_o they_o have_v none_o but_o upon_o this_o occasion_n the_o representer_n be_v very_o angy_a it_o can_v not_o say_v he_o be_v rational_o expect_v that_o those_o who_o choose_v rather_o to_o forgo_v all_o the_o interest_n and_o convenience_n of_o humane_a life_n than_o join_v with_o a_o schismatic_a congregation_n shall_v be_v afterward_o bring_v to_o church_n by_o a_o few_o empty_a discourse_n which_o make_v no_o more_o convert_v than_o they_o deserve_v make_v as_o i_o can_v hear_v of_o none_o at_o all_o but_o why_o schismatic_a congregation_n and_o a_o few_o empty_a discourse_n when_o man_n keep_v what_o their_o adversary_n will_v get_v from_o they_o and_o when_o they_o have_v disappoint_v all_o their_o design_n they_o use_v to_o be_v please_v and_o in_o good_a humour_n and_o though_o perhaps_o they_o may_v laugh_v hearty_o at_o their_o antagonist_n for_o lose_v their_o pain_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o natural_a to_o rage_v against_o they_o as_o if_o themselves_o be_v the_o loser_n i_o begin_v therefore_o to_o suspect_v that_o our_o representer_n know_v of_o some_o success_n those_o discourse_n have_v which_o he_o be_v not_o will_v to_o own_o but_o be_v that_o as_o it_o will_v as_o we_o do_v not_o think_v the_o better_a of_o the_o former_a performance_n 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not_o only_o to_o recover_v those_o that_o be_v deceive_v but_o likewise_o to_o keep_v those_o from_o error_n that_o be_v in_o the_o way_n of_o truth_n and_o therefore_o it_o may_v be_v reasonable_o presume_v that_o our_o endeavour_n have_v have_v good_a success_n upon_o the_o great_a part_n of_o those_o who_o they_o be_v design_v to_o serve_v though_o not_o upon_o all_o but_o when_o i_o have_v tell_v this_o man_n what_o perhaps_o himself_o know_v that_o by_o these_o discourse_n we_o have_v gain_v some_o from_o popery_n to_o the_o reform_a religion_n i_o will_v also_o tell_v he_o that_o if_o we_o have_v never_o gain_v so_o much_o as_o one_o it_o have_v be_v no_o disparagement_n to_o our_o argument_n since_o they_o have_v way_n of_o fix_v their_o proselyte_n which_o we_o abhor_v of_o which_o i_o shall_v give_v this_o one_o instance_n it_o be_v their_o rule_n let_v otherr_n judge_v whether_o it_o be_v their_o practice_n to_o require_v a_o dreadful_a oath_n of_o all_o who_o they_o can_v 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forefather_n go_v off_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o why_o on_o the_o other_o side_n themselves_o ought_v now_o to_o return_v to_o it_o and_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a be_v in_o effect_n to_o confess_v a_o old_a and_o a_o new_a popery_n and_o not_o only_o a_o more_o clear_a and_o intelligible_a way_n of_o expound_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n which_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n have_v get_v above_o all_o that_o be_v before_o he_o unless_o the_o vindicator_n will_v say_v that_o their_o forefather_n as_o well_o as_o we_o be_v so_o stupid_a that_o they_o can_v not_o see_v either_o the_o one_o what_o doctrine_n they_o hold_v or_o the_o other_o what_o they_o reject_v but_o be_v still_o play_v at_o blindman's-buff_n about_o notion_n which_o they_o can_v not_o make_v one_o another_o understand_v because_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o express_v they_o as_o they_o ought_v to_o have_v be_v express_v which_o i_o be_o confident_a mr._n bruey_n will_v never_o say_v and_o perhaps_o not_o the_o vindicator_n neither_o though_o without_o say_v it_o he_o must_v in_o spite_n of_o his_o heart_n find_v a_o new_a and_o old_a popery_n acknowledge_v by_o that_o gentleman_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o occasion_n for_o that_o distinction_n till_o these_o happy_a day_n of_o we_o but_o for_o the_o vindicator_n to_o find_v in_o mr._n bruey_n word_n a_o new_a and_o a_o old_a popery_n charge_v upon_o the_o conceit_n of_o our_o forefather_n be_v so_o very_o ridiculous_a and_o utter_o inconsistent_a with_o his_o argument_n to_o persuade_v we_o to_o put_v matter_n into_o the_o same_o state_n in_o which_o they_o be_v before_o by_o reunite_a to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o any_o one_o may_v see_v he_o be_v hard_o put_v to_o it_o to_o make_v this_o testimony_n
a_o loss_n again_o and_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n in_o council_n will_v do_v he_o little_a service_n in_o those_o point_n where_o it_o may_v be_v council_n be_v silent_a if_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n out_o of_o council_n be_v plain_o and_o loud_o against_o he_o and_o his_o party_n if_o the_o vindicator_n than_o shall_v say_v that_o though_o the_o church_n have_v a_o sense_n of_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n out_o of_o council_n yet_o that_o sense_n can_v or_o at_o least_o be_v never_o deliver_v but_o by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_a council_n then_o i_o have_v one_o other_o question_n to_o put_v which_o will_v break_v out_o into_o a_o few_o more_o but_o which_o he_o who_o have_v consider_v these_o thing_n very_o well_o will_v make_v no_o difficulty_n to_o answer_v this_o question_n be_v how_o the_o church_n sense_n come_v to_o be_v know_v concern_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n before_o any_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n deliver_v they_o for_o such_o which_o question_n will_v appear_v to_o be_v a_o very_a reasonable_a one_o if_o he_o will_v please_v to_o read_v these_o that_o follow_v 1._o whether_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o the_o same_o now_o that_o they_o be_v from_o the_o beginning_n 2._o whether_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n concern_v these_o doctrine_n have_v not_o be_v always_o the_o same_o 3._o whether_o the_o church_n therefore_o have_v not_o the_o same_o sense_n of_o they_o before_o they_o be_v deliver_v by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n that_o she_o have_v afterward_o or_o whether_o she_o have_v one_o sense_n and_o deliver_v another_o and_o then_o as_o i_o say_v at_o first_o 4._o if_o she_o have_v the_o same_o sense_n before_o it_o be_v so_o deliver_v that_o she_o have_v when_o she_o deliver_v it_o and_o after_o she_o deliver_v it_o how_o come_v that_o sense_n to_o be_v know_v before_o this_o i_o think_v be_v plain_a enough_o but_o if_o it_o be_v not_o i_o will_v try_v to_o make_v it_o plain_o therefore_o 1._o we_o say_v with_o the_o romanist_n that_o it_o be_v a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o son_n be_v of_o the_o same_o substance_n with_o the_o father_n but_o this_o doctrine_n be_v never_o deliver_v in_o a_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n before_o the_o first_o council_n of_o nice_a as_o it_o be_v impossible_a it_o shall_v because_o that_o be_v the_o first_o general_n council_n i_o will_v know_v of_o the_o vindicator_n whether_o the_o church_n sense_n concern_v that_o doctrine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v know_v before_o and_o how_o it_o be_v to_o be_v know_v 2._o the_o romanist_n say_v that_o it_o be_v a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o in_o the_o eucharist_n the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o wine_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o his_o blood._n but_o this_o be_v never_o deliver_v in_o any_o pretend_a general_n and_o approve_a council_n as_o we_o be_v very_o sure_a before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n under_o innocent_a iii_o i_o will_v know_v of_o the_o vindicator_n whether_o the_o church_n have_v the_o same_o sense_n of_o this_o transubstantiation_n before_o that_o lateran_n council_n which_o it_o be_v say_v to_o have_v have_v since_o and_o whether_o that_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n be_v know_v and_o if_o so_o then_o how_o it_o be_v know_v i_o have_v give_v the_o vindicator_n two_o instance_n one_o of_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n for_o which_o we_o contend_v no_o less_o than_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o as_o we_o think_v to_o better_a purpose_n another_o of_o a_o doctrine_n which_o that_o church_n say_v be_v of_o faith_n though_o we_o say_v it_o destroy_v all_o faith_n and_o these_o two_o in_o behalf_n of_o all_o that_o be_v real_a and_o of_o all_o that_o be_v by_o they_o pretend_v to_o be_v doctrine_n of_o faith._n for_o till_o i_o be_o better_a inform_v by_o the_o vindicator_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o foresay_a question_n i_o say_v of_o all_o the_o doctrine_n of_o both_o kind_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v some_o way_n to_o come_v to_o the_o church_n sense_n about_o these_o thing_n before_o she_o deliver_v her_o sense_n of_o they_o in_o the_o voice_n of_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n this_o i_o shall_v presume_v till_o he_o acquaint_v i_o otherwise_o and_o if_o he_o do_v not_o yet_o understand_v which_o way_n these_o question_n drive_v i_o will_v now_o tell_v he_o let_v he_o keep_v to_o his_o principle_n and_o show_v i_o by_o what_o way_n the_o church_n sense_n come_v to_o be_v know_v concern_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n before_o they_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o voice_n of_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n and_o then_o let_v he_o leave_v it_o to_o i_o to_o show_v he_o by_o the_o same_o way_n that_o old_a popery_n as_o we_o call_v it_o have_v be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n till_o these_o expound_v and_o represent_v day_n of_o we_o nay_o and_o that_o father_n crasset_fw-la shall_v prove_v by_o the_o same_o way_n that_o it_o be_v now_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n whatever_o some_o few_o man_n of_o that_o communion_n may_v pretend_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o when_o i_o have_v do_v this_o the_o vindicator_n shall_v by_o i_o be_v never_o contradict_v while_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n prove_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v quite_o different_a from_o what_o father_n crasset_fw-la in_o his_o way_n prove_v to_o be_v so_o for_o most_o undoubted_o he_o thereby_o do_v our_o work_n for_o we_o and_o enable_v we_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o must_v of_o necessity_n be_v two_o church-sense_n betwixt_o they_o and_o consequent_o two_o sort_n of_o popery_n a_o old_a popery_n and_o a_o new_a popery_n whereas_o therefore_o the_o vindicator_n say_v till_o you_o can_v prove_v by_o the_o express_a word_n of_o a_o general_n approve_a council_n that_o what_o you_o term_v old_a popery_n be_v deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n all_z you_o say_v will_v avail_v nothing_o i_o will_v be_v glad_a to_o know_v what_o the_o vindicator_n will_v have_v say_v in_o behalf_n of_o transubstantiation_n so_o some_o such_o man_n as_o rabanus_n maurus_n or_o bertram_n or_o berengarius_fw-la if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o their_o time_n and_o they_o shall_v have_v say_v to_o he_o though_o i_o think_v in_o my_o conscience_n none_o of_o they_o will_v have_v talk_v so_o insipid_o till_o you_o can_v prove_v by_o the_o express_a word_n of_o a_o general_n approve_a council_n that_o what_o you_o term_v the_o catholic_a faith_n concern_v christ_n presence_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n all_o you_o say_v will_v avail_v nothing_o here_o i_o will_v not_o allow_v that_o the_o vindicator_n shall_v bring_v in_o the_o doctor_n and_o saint_n of_o the_o church_n who_o may_v be_v pretend_v to_o bear_v testimony_n to_o the_o church_n sense_n in_o this_o point_n for_o he_o have_v foreclose_v himself_o as_o to_o this_o relief_n and_o that_o by_o give_v the_o defender_n a_o notable_a reason_n why_o all_o he_o can_v say_v will_v avail_v he_o nothing_o if_o he_o bring_v not_o the_o express_a word_n of_o a_o council_n for_o say_v he_o you_o bring_v only_o the_o sentiment_n of_o private_a man_n which_o other_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n condemn_v i_o have_v urge_v this_o matter_n further_o than_o i_o intend_v at_o first_o for_o i_o mean_v not_o to_o press_v for_o answer_n to_o the_o forego_n question_n with_o much_o importunity_n and_o now_o i_o say_v no_o more_o than_o that_o i_o shall_v take_v it_o very_o kind_o of_o the_o vindicator_n if_o he_o will_v please_v to_o admit_v these_o thing_n into_o his_o consideration_n and_o enlighten_v i_o with_o his_o thought_n about_o they_o ii_o i_o proceed_v in_o the_o second_o place_n to_o suppose_v a_o very_a strange_a thing_n for_o fear_v the_o vindicator_n shall_v affirm_v it_o and_o that_o be_v that_o nothing_o be_v to_o be_v take_v for_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n as_o to_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o she_o declare_v by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_n approve_v council_n for_o if_o we_o take_v the_o cause_n by_o this_o handle_n the_o distinction_n between_o old_a and_o new_a popery_n will_v i_o believe_v go_v on_o as_o roundly_o as_o it_o do_v before_o and_o some_o inconvenience_n too_o will_v follow_v in_o the_o close_a to_o trouble_v the_o vindicator_n no_o less_o than_o this_o odious_a distinction_n between_o old_a and_o new_a popery_n because_o i_o will_v lead_v he_o fair_o to_o the_o business_n i_o ask_v he_o in_o the_o first_o place_n whether_o his_o church_n have_v deliver_v her_o sense_n concern_v those_o two_o point_n which_o he_o mention_n upon_o this_o occasion_n by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_n and_o
approve_a council_n or_o whether_o she_o have_v not_o the_o two_o point_n be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o worship_v image_n if_o she_o have_v not_o do_v it_o then_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n there_o can_v be_v no_o doctrine_n concern_v these_o two_o thing_n which_o can_v be_v call_v a_o doctrine_n of_o faith._n the_o vindicator_n therefore_o will_v say_v i_o hope_v that_o she_o have_v deliver_v her_o sense_n by_o her_o voice_n and_o so_o i_o ask_v he_o in_o the_o second_o place_n whether_o by_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o church_n deliver_v he_o understand_v only_o so_o many_o word_n put_v together_o and_o not_o rather_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o word_n which_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o church_n use_v that_o be_v which_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n have_v put_v together_o to_o express_v their_o mean_v by_o this_o be_v a_o question_n which_o the_o vindicator_n must_v needs_o understand_v because_o i_o do_v in_o effect_n but_o borrow_v it_o of_o his_o friend_n for_o the_o like_a question_n have_v be_v often_o put_v to_o we_o by_o they_o and_o particular_o by_o his_o good_a friend_n the_o representer_n and_o it_o may_v be_v by_o himself_o viz._n whether_o by_o the_o scripture_n we_o understand_v the_o word_n or_o the_o sense_n so_o say_v i_o by_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n which_o the_o vindicator_n say_v be_v deliver_v by_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o her_o general_n council_n do_v he_o mean_v the_o sense_n or_o the_o word_n only_o of_o her_o council_n i_o will_v for_o once_o answer_v for_o he_o that_o he_o mean_v the_o sense_n which_o be_v contain_v under_o the_o word_n i_o ask_v he_o therefore_o the_o three_o time_n whether_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o word_n which_o his_o general_n council_n have_v put_v together_o 6._o pag._n 6._o be_v not_o as_o he_o say_v what_o true_o we_o ought_v to_o mean_v by_o popery_n if_o i_o may_v be_v bold_a to_o answer_v for_o he_o once_o more_o he_o must_v needs_o grant_v it_o for_o if_o the_o church_n doctrine_n of_o faith_n be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n and_o if_o that_o which_o we_o ought_v to_o call_v popery_n and_o to_o mean_v by_o popery_n be_v the_o church_n doctrine_n of_o faith_n it_o will_v go_v very_o hard_o if_o popery_n be_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n and_o now_o the_o odious_a distinction_n clear_v up_o apace_o in_o go_v this_o way_n to_o work_v for_o if_o that_o part_n of_o popery_n which_o be_v make_v by_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n be_v neither_o more_o nor_o less_o than_o the_o sense_n of_o general_n council_n concern_v such_o doctrine_n as_o we_o protestant_n disclaim_v it_o follow_v present_o that_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o council_n be_v what_o we_o ought_v to_o call_v popery_n and_o therefore_o 1._o i_o humble_o conceive_v that_o if_o there_o be_v two_o party_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o be_v not_o agree_v what_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n be_v it_o follow_v out_o of_o hand_n that_o so_o far_o they_o be_v not_o agree_v about_o popery_n and_o that_o for_o this_o very_a good_a reason_n because_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n and_o the_o faith_n part_n of_o popery_n according_a to_o he_o be_v all_o one_o and_o indeed_o but_o two_o expression_n of_o the_o same_o thing_n 2._o it_o follow_v also_o that_o in_o what_o sense_n soever_o either_o of_o those_o party_n take_v the_o word_n of_o the_o church_n council_n that_o sense_n be_v and_o must_v necessary_o be_v that_o party_n popery_n because_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o council_n be_v popery_n that_o which_o be_v to_o one_o party_n the_o sense_n of_o her_o council_n must_v likewise_o be_v popery_n to_o that_o party_n 3._o if_o therefore_o one_o of_o those_o party_n take_v the_o word_n of_o her_o council_n in_o one_o sense_n and_o another_o take_v the_o same_o word_n in_o a_o contradictory_n sense_n then_o because_o the_o sense_n in_o which_o the_o former_a take_v those_o word_n be_v the_o popery_n of_o or_o to_o that_o party_n and_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o latter_a be_v its_o popery_n it_o unavoidable_o follow_v that_o there_o be_v two_o pretend_a popery_n betwixt_o those_o two_o party_n which_o be_v inconsistent_a with_o one_o another_o 4._o if_o the_o sense_n of_o one_o of_o these_o party_n be_v that_o which_o prevail_v without_o control_v ever_o since_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n till_o very_o late_o and_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o other_o party_n be_v therefore_o but_o of_o yesterday_o then_o of_o these_o two_o popery_n the_o former_a must_v needs_o be_v the_o old_a popery_n and_o the_o latter_a the_o new_a popery_n 5._o so_o much_o reason_n as_o we_o have_v to_o believe_v the_o old_a popery_n to_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o the_o church_n council_n rather_o than_o the_o new_a one_o so_o much_o reason_n also_o we_o have_v to_o believe_v that_o the_o old_a popery_n be_v the_o true_a popery_n and_o the_o new_a to_o be_v but_o a_o imposture_n or_o a_o mistake_n of_o those_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o have_v of_o late_o bring_v it_o up_o 6._o and_o last_o if_o protestant_n do_v not_o make_v those_o different_a sense_n for_o they_o but_o each_o party_n in_o that_o church_n make_v they_o for_o themselves_o than_o this_o distinction_n of_o a_o old_a and_o a_o new_a popery_n be_v no_o misrepresentation_n falsification_n or_o calumny_n of_o protestant_n but_o a_o distinction_n ground_v upon_o the_o real_a disagreement_n of_o papist_n about_o popery_n quod_fw-la erat_fw-la demonstrandum_fw-la but_o i_o think_v that_o man_n be_v never_o put_v to_o it_o as_o we_o be_v to_o make_v solemn_a proof_n of_o thing_n that_o be_v so_o evident_a that_o they_o need_v not_o to_o be_v prove_v at_o all_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n determine_v that_o we_o be_v to_o fly_v to_o the_o prayer_n the_o help_n and_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o saint_n if_o we_o will_v know_v the_o council_n sense_n in_o this_o matter_n the_o old_a one_o will_v tell_v we_o that_o the_o meaning_n be_v we_o shall_v have_v recourse_n to_o they_o for_o other_o aid_n beside_o their_o prayer_n and_o as_o one_o will_v very_o take_v this_o for_o the_o meaning_n from_o the_o construction_n of_o the_o word_n themselves_o so_o the_o term_n of_o invoke_v the_o saint_n which_o be_v then_o use_v in_o their_o office_n and_o still_o be_v so_o do_v manifest_o favour_v that_o interpretation_n but_o our_o new_a expositor_n come_v and_o tell_v we_o that_o they_o require_v no_o other_o aid_n and_o assistance_n from_o the_o saint_n than_o their_o prayer_n and_o the_o vindicator_n intimate_v that_o if_o they_o do_v we_o shall_v have_v something_o to_o say_v against_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o what_o they_o practise_v if_o popery_n therefore_o be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n in_o which_o i_o acknowledge_v they_o all_o agree_v as_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n in_o which_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v how_o be_v it_o possible_a but_o that_o here_o be_v two_o popery_n in_o this_o matter_n advance_v among_o themselves_o one_o against_o the_o other_o again_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n affirm_v that_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n and_o therefore_o what_o one_o party_n in_o that_o church_n take_v to_o be_v that_o due_a honour_n be_v popery_n to_o they_o because_o it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n to_o that_o party_n and_o what_o another_o believe_v to_o be_v so_o be_v their_o popery_n and_o here_o i_o be_o sure_a if_o we_o find_v a_o harmony_n it_o be_v make_v up_o all_o of_o discord_n indeed_o one_o will_v have_v think_v that_o the_o council_n by_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n have_v mean_v that_o worship_n which_o be_v at_o that_o time_n give_v to_o image_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o their_o office_n require_v and_o for_o which_o their_o most_o celebrate_a writer_n have_v contend_v and_o this_o way_n of_o come_v to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n must_v lead_v a_o man_n to_o the_o popery_n of_o give_v the_o same_o honour_n to_o the_o image_n that_o be_v due_a to_o the_o prototype_n or_o at_o least_o a_o inferior_a honour_n by_o which_o the_o image_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v true_o and_o proper_o worship_v for_o the_o former_a sense_n cardinal_n capisucchi_fw-it dos_n at_o this_o day_n earnest_o contend_v and_o very_o fair_o argue_v it_o against_o all_o opposer_n from_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n but_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n and_o the_o representer_n and_o the_o vindicator_n be_v as_o cross_v to_o that_o sense_n as_o downright_a contradiction_n can_v make_v they_o they_o say_v etc._n see_v second_o def._n p._n 31_o 32_o etc._n etc._n that_o in_o presence_n of_o
construction_n be_v no_o false_a translator_n but_o a_o true_a one_o especial_o if_o that_o sentence_n be_v part_n of_o a_o work_n where_o the_o latin_a be_v every_o where_o else_o very_o good_a and_o that_o sense_n which_o the_o construction_n make_v agree_v with_o all_o that_o be_v in_o connexion_n and_o 1._o it_o agree_v very_o well_o with_o the_o mention_n of_o those_o many_o benefit_n which_o relic_n be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o mean_n of_o and_o 2._o it_o hold_v with_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o matter_n of_o this_o period_n and_o that_o of_o the_o forego_v one_o much_o better_a than_o the_o vindicator_n sense_n do_v for_o he_o will_v have_v the_o help_v of_o the_o saint_n to_o be_v mention_v here_o but_o let_v he_o observe_v that_o this_o be_v abundant_o take_v care_n for_o in_o the_o provision_n that_o go_v immediate_o before_o and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v indifferent_a as_o it_o be_v not_o which_o way_n the_o construction_n shall_v be_v carry_v according_a to_o the_o use_n of_o latin_a this_o shall_v carry_v it_o for_o we_o that_o here_o the_o council_n be_v engage_v in_o a_o new_a matter_n not_o for_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o the_o benefit_n of_o that_o which_o be_v provide_v for_o before_o but_o for_o the_o veneration_n of_o their_o relic_n and_o the_o benefit_n that_o come_v that_o way_n which_o be_v the_o business_n of_o this_o period_n and_o now_o the_o vindicator_n may_v consider_v to_o who_o of_o right_a the_o character_n of_o a_o false_a translator_n belong_v of_o a_o falsifier_n and_o a_o calumniator_n too_o certain_o controversy_n about_o religion_n be_v never_o disgrace_v by_o such_o mean_a bicker_n as_o these_o but_o who_o can_v help_v it_o that_o have_v to_o do_v with_o such_o man_n as_o this_o vindicator_n and_o his_o friend_n the_o representer_n so_o much_o for_o know_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n by_o her_o voice_n in_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n again_o we_o be_v to_o know_v what_o the_o church_n deliver_v as_o a_o necessary_a practice_n 6._o pag._n 6._o by_o she_o universal_o practise_v such_o thing_n as_o necessary_a i_o ask_v therefore_o 1._o do_v not_o the_o church_n intend_v her_o public_a office_n for_o rule_n of_o universal_a practice_n and_o be_v they_o not_o therefore_o one_o mean_n by_o which_o we_o be_v to_o judge_v of_o such_o practice_n 2._o whether_o those_o thing_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o her_o public_a office_n require_v 3._o whether_o she_o do_v not_o practise_v those_o thing_n as_o necessary_a which_o she_o practise_v in_o conformity_n to_o her_o own_o public_a office_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v indifferent_a for_o the_o child_n of_o the_o church_n to_o observe_v her_o rule_n or_o to_o refuse_v to_o observe_v they_o the_o vindicator_n understand_v himself_o to_o be_v liable_a to_o these_o question_n and_o therefore_o when_o he_o come_v to_o apply_v this_o mean_n of_o know_v the_o church_n sense_n in_o necessary_a practice_n he_o add_v a_o new_a limitation_n unless_o say_v he_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o what_o you_o term_v old_a popery_n be_v deliver_v as_o a_o practice_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n all_o you_o say_v will_v avail_v you_o nothing_o for_o the_o church_n be_v to_o answer_v for_o nothing_o which_o she_o require_v not_o as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o though_o she_o oblige_v all_o her_o child_n to_o worship_v the_o wood_n on_o good-friday_n and_o condemn_v those_o that_o refuse_v as_o schismatic_n as_o imberâ—_n know_v to_o his_o cost_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o the_o church_n sense_n that_o they_o shall_v do_v so_o because_o the_o rubric_n do_v not_o add_v that_o this_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n so_o that_o if_o the_o church_n have_v command_v we_o to_o worship_n moloch_n that_o have_v not_o be_v popery_n or_o the_o church_n sense_n unless_o she_o have_v insert_v that_o reason_n for_o her_o command_n that_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o worship_n moloch_n in_o a_o word_n the_o general_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o the_o service_n of_o the_o virgin_n the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v notorious_a to_o the_o world._n and_o no_o man_n that_o know_v the_o authorize_v practice_n can_v doubt_v of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o be_v ignorant_a that_o in_o these_o thing_n the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n have_v deliver_v not_o the_o church_n sense_n but_o his_o own_o if_o indeed_o it_o be_v his_o own_o the_o defender_n produce_v a_o author_n of_o the_o roman_a communion_n who_o conclude_v that_o the_o true_a and_o only_o mean_v to_o free_v their_o religion_n from_o the_o exception_n of_o heretic_n be_v to_o show_v that_o it_o do_v not_o tolerate_v any_o thing_n but_o what_o be_v good_a and_o that_o the_o public_a worship_n the_o custom_n and_o doctrine_n authorize_v in_o it_o be_v just_a and_o holy._n this_o author_n have_v good_a reason_n for_o what_o he_o say_v especial_o against_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n who_o impute_v to_o the_o pagan_a religion_n those_o abuse_n which_o be_v public_o commit_v among_o they_o and_o laugh_v at_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o philosopher_n that_o will_v put_v a_o good_a sense_n upon_o their_o abominable_a worship_n the_o vindicator_n say_v he_o admit_v the_o parallel_n but_o he_o be_v certain_a that_o it_o will_v never_o make_v any_o thing_n for_o we_o till_o we_o can_v show_v that_o the_o church_n do_v or_o do_v make_v use_n of_o rack_n and_o gibbet_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o torture_n to_o oblige_v people_n to_o believe_v and_o practice_v those_o thing_n which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n as_o the_o heathen_n do_v to_o make_v they_o worship_v idol_n that_o be_v to_o say_v he_o do_v not_o admit_v the_o parallel_n though_o he_o say_v he_o do_v admit_v it_o for_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n be_v bring_v in_o charge_v paganism_n with_o a_o barbarous_a and_o idolatrous_a worship_n upon_o the_o account_n of_o their_o notorious_a and_o authorize_v practice_n without_o regard_n to_o their_o cruelty_n upon_o those_o that_o refuse_v to_o comply_v with_o they_o and_o therefore_o if_o the_o parallel_n be_v admit_v we_o may_v conclude_v a_o old_a popery_n from_o a_o like_o general_a practice_n without_o inquire_v whether_o rack_n and_o gibbet_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o torture_n be_v use_v to_o enforce_v it_o upon_o the_o people_n but_o the_o vindicator_n have_v require_v a_o wise_a condition_n to_o make_v the_o parallel_n hold_v for_o he_o say_v in_o effect_n that_o before_o christianity_n appear_v against_o heathenism_n and_o till_o the_o pagan_n have_v some_o people_n to_o hang_v and_o to_o torture_v paganism_n can_v not_o be_v charge_v with_o a_o corrupt_a and_o idolatrous_a worship_n and_o yet_o if_o this_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v add_v old_a popery_n have_v not_o be_v behind_o hand_n with_o the_o use_n of_o rack_n and_o gibbet_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o torture_n to_o speak_v all_o in_o a_o word_n it_o have_v have_v and_o to_o this_o day_n it_o have_v a_o inquisition_n to_o uphold_v it_o as_o for_o what_o he_o say_v that_o the_o defender_n must_v show_v 7._o pag._n 7._o that_o the_o church_n allow_v such_o wicked_a practice_n as_o correspond_v to_o his_o author_n example_n of_o kill_v and_o rob_v and_o be_v as_o dangerous_a to_o the_o church_n as_o those_o be_v to_o a_o state._n i_o reply_v that_o the_o question_n be_v not_o here_o how_o dangerous_a those_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n be_v which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n but_o whether_o indeed_o they_o be_v to_o be_v charge_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o similitude_n be_v bring_v to_o show_v that_o it_o be_v to_o as_o little_a purpose_n to_o defend_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o our_o exception_n by_o pretend_v that_o no_o decision_n of_o council_n can_v be_v produce_v require_v that_o service_n and_o worship_n which_o be_v universal_o give_v to_o saint_n and_o image_n as_o to_o acquit_v a_o city_n where_o they_o rob_v and_o kill_v without_o contradiction_n by_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o law_n command_v man_n to_o rob_v and_o murder_v one_o another_o as_o for_o the_o danger_n of_o those_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n it_o be_v another_o question_n in_o which_o i_o be_o pretty_a confident_a that_o good_a man_n the_o representer_n be_v bind_v to_o appear_v he_o and_o the_o vindicator_n therefore_o shall_v agree_v about_o it_o at_o their_o leisure_n i_o shall_v do_v my_o part_n to_o bring_v they_o fair_o together_o and_o so_o let_v they_o compound_v the_o matter_n betwixt_o they_o as_o well_o as_o they_o can_v the_o vindicator_n feel_v himself_o bear_v down_o with_o those_o clear_a testimony_n of_o a_o old_a popery_n which_o the_o defender_n ply_v he_o with_o and_o by_o what_o appear_v now_o he_o struggle_v
at_o last_o with_o all_o his_o might_n to_o make_v this_o same_o popery_n if_o so_o we_o must_v call_v it_o to_o be_v not_o the_o popery_n of_o the_o church_n but_o a_o popery_n rather_o in_o the_o church_n and_o because_o it_o be_v of_o so_o large_a a_o spread_v and_o be_v manifest_o uphold_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o great_a one_o therefore_o some_o good_a word_n be_v now_o to_o be_v give_v it_o to_o save_v the_o reputation_n of_o the_o church_n which_o else_o will_v be_v in_o great_a danger_n of_o the_o similitude_n of_o a_o city_n that_o permit_v to_o rob_v and_o kill_v without_o contradiction_n or_o rather_o of_o a_o city_n that_o reward_v robber_n and_o punish_v honest_a man_n wherefore_o say_v the_o vindicator_n every_o thing_n 7._o pag._n 7._o i_o hope_v that_o any_o one_o fancy_n to_o be_v ill_a be_v not_o therefore_o to_o be_v reprove_v and_o be_v it_o come_v to_o this_o at_o last_o we_o have_v be_v in_o good_a hand_n i_o see_v if_o we_o have_v come_v into_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n upon_o the_o representer_n term_n for_o be_v it_o not_o the_o representer_n that_o say_v he_o will_v as_o soon_o be_v a_o turk_n as_o the_o answerer_n papist_n now_o the_o answerer_n papist_n be_v the_o old_a papist_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v notable_o and_o bold_o say_v that_o he_o will_v as_o soon_o be_v a_o turk_n as_o our_o papist_n for_o one_o will_v at_o least_o conclude_v from_o thence_o that_o the_o expound_v and_o represent_v party_n will_v have_v stand_v stout_o by_o we_o if_o we_o have_v come_v in_o reject_v all_o that_o popery_n as_o we_o use_v to_o call_v it_o which_o the_o representer_n have_v so_o brave_o reject_v but_o if_o we_o have_v take_v the_o bait_n have_v we_o not_o be_v fine_o angle_v up_o for_o what_o say_v our_o representer_n other_o self_n the_o vindicator_n why_o true_o every_o thing_n he_o hope_v that_o any_o one_o fancy_n to_o be_v ill_a be_v not_o therefore_o to_o be_v reprove_v it_o seem_v then_o that_o the_o representer_n do_v but_o fancy_v those_o thing_n to_o be_v ill_a which_o not_o he_o in_o his_o misrepresent_v side_n but_o the_o answerer_n charge_v upon_o they_o as_o popery_n or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o these_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o and_o that_o he_o do_v not_o fancy_n they_o to_o be_v ill_a but_o for_o the_o present_a thought_n good_a to_o say_v however_o that_o they_o be_v monstrous_a ill_a thing_n and_o that_o he_o will_v as_o soon_o be_v a_o turk_n as_o the_o answerer_n papist_n but_o i_o rather_o think_v they_o do_v not_o lay_v their_o head_n together_o upon_o this_o business_n but_o that_o in_o the_o desperate_a estate_n to_o which_o the_o vindicator_n cause_n be_v reduce_v by_o the_o clear_a testimony_n of_o such_o a_o popery_n among_o they_o as_o the_o representer_n reject_v with_o detestation_n he_o find_v himself_o oblige_v for_o the_o credit_n of_o his_o church_n and_o perhaps_o for_o his_o own_o safety_n to_o remit_v of_o his_o rigour_n or_o rather_o to_o take_v off_o his_o disguise_n a_o little_a without_o ask_v the_o representer_n leave_n and_o so_o he_o hope_v that_o every_o thing_n that_o any_o one_o fancy_n to_o be_v ill_a be_v not_o therefore_o to_o be_v reprove_v but_o the_o representer_n have_v the_o less_o reason_n to_o be_v angry_a with_o our_o vindicator_n because_o this_o gentleman_n have_v make_v as_o bold_a with_o himself_o as_o with_o his_o friend_n the_o vindicator_n too_o once_o fancy_v that_o it_o be_v a_o ill_a thing_n to_o worship_n the_o image_n of_o our_o saviour_n or_o the_o holy_a cross_n with_o divine_a worship_n upon_o any_o account_n whatsoever_o but_o cardinal_n capisucchi_fw-it come_v in_o the_o way_n and_o so_o every_o thing_n that_o the_o vindicator_n himself_o fancy_v to_o be_v ill_a be_v not_o therefore_o to_o be_v reprove_v nay_o he_o be_v not_o content_a to_o let_v the_o old_a popery_n get_v up_o again_o but_o he_o have_v be_v please_v to_o sink_v the_o new_a one_o as_o much_o for_o though_o cardinal_n capisucchi_fw-it ses_fw-fr so_o and_o so_o yet_o see_v other_o of_o the_o same_o communion_n reject_v this_o and_o be_v not_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n it_o plain_o follow_v that_o his_o be_v not_o the_o necessary_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n 7._o pag._n 7._o and_o what_o he_o say_v in_o this_o case_n be_v applicable_a to_o all_o other_o alas_o for_o new_a popery_n for_o it_o decline_v apace_o we_o have_v think_v it_o have_v be_v show_v we_o for_o the_o true_a ancient_a stand_v sense_n of_o the_o church_n and_o now_o the_o most_o that_o can_v be_v say_v for_o it_o be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n it_o seem_v then_o that_o these_o expounder_n and_o representer_n be_v but_o a_o tolerate_a party_n one_o step_n more_o backward_o make_v they_o not_o to_o be_v so_o much_o as_o tolerate_v and_o the_o next_o news_n we_o shall_v hear_v be_v that_o they_o be_v intolerable_a but_o by_o the_o way_n what_o church_n do_v the_o vindicator_n mean_v by_o say_v that_o he_o and_o he_o 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to_o be_v adore_v with_o the_o same_o adoration_n with_o which_o the_o prototype_n be_v adore_v 2._o that_o the_o cross_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v only_o with_o a_o inferior_a adoration_n this_o very_a instance_n be_v produce_v by_o the_o defender_n out_o of_o capisucchi_fw-it xv._o pref._n p._n fourteen_o xv._o who_o leave_v it_o for_o a_o caution_n and_o a_o conviction_n to_o such_o man_n as_o in_o good_a earnest_n maintain_v our_o vindicator_n doctrine_n for_o the_o vindicator_n to_o mention_v capisucchi_n doctrine_n and_o to_o say_v in_o the_o same_o breath_n that_o they_o who_o reject_v it_o be_v not_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n be_v of_o a_o piece_n with_o his_o sincerity_n every_o where_o else_o well_o but_o let_v that_o pass_v and_o let_v we_o consider_v what_o will_v come_v of_o this_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o they_o be_v not_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n real_o this_o be_v but_o a_o small_a encouragement_n to_o take_v popery_n upon_o the_o representer_n term_n for_o 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