the Protestants faith is not the true faith Before I answer directly to the parts of this Syllogisme I hold it needfull to note a few things concerning the reason in generall The first is that in this question wee inquire not of such professours onely as our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles were who deliuered the Articles of faith by way of reuelation but of such as haue beleeued and profest those articles as they haue beene gathered out of that which they reuealed Secondly it is worth the doing to consider a little way of gesse what the reason should be why the Papists are so loath to make tryall of their faith by the Scriptures and cry so loud for a catalogue or register of the names of such as haue from time to time beleeued as now we do This may well seeme strange to all men who vnderstand that the diuine reuelation is a most faithfull record and most certaine rule in all matters of faith so that whatsoeuer is agreeable thereto is a part of true faith whatsoeuer differeth from it either positiuely by affirming that which is not reuealed or negatiuely by denying that which is reuealed is vntrue and may not be taken for an article of faith As for a beadroll of names who knoweth not that it must needes be made out of humaine storie Wher as Diuine and infallible faith is not built upon deduction out of humane historie but diuene reuelation as is well obserued by the learned reuerend D. Featly And how can that be any foundation of diuine faith when it is not diuine authoritie nor free from errour but humane onely and subiect to errour yea among all kindes of humane authoritie of least credit Our of doubt then the Papists would neuer haue pursued this course so eagerly but for some especiall aduantage to theiâ— cause which in all likely hood is this that they saw well enough it was not for their religion to abide the tryall by Scripture in those articles of faith But what saith the Prophet Isaiah If they refuse the Law Isa 8. 20. 8 and the testimonie it is because there is no light in them Now in particular I say that the proposition is faultie diuers wayes First whereas it supposeth that the true faith hath beene in all ages in the word if they meane it hath been in the Scriptures in all ages we grant that they say is true but we adde that it is not to purpose for our question is not of faith as it is reuealed in the Scriptures but as it is gathered out of them and particularly beleeued and in this latter sence we denie that the true faith hath been in all ages For proofe of our deniall we alleage the experience of all ages by which it is manifest that some articles of faith haue been obseruÌ„ed and concluded out of the Scriptures from time to time and were not all known and beleeued for articles of saith at once I may bring for instance those great points debated and determined in the 4 first generall Councells For certainely if The god-head of our blessed Sauiour and the holy Ghost the distinction of the diuine and humaine natures of our Lord Iesus the Vnitie of his person had bin resolutely holden in the Church for articles of faith Arius Macedonius Eutyches and Nestorius would not haue durst to speake of them so wickedly and heretically as they did neither would the Church haue assembled Councells to aduise of the points but haue cast out those wretches as enemies of the faith The like might be said of Pelagius touching grace and of many other points of no small importance To come nearer to this our age there is no Papist of any reading and iudgement but will confesse that diuâ—rs propositions in tholate Councell of Trent which ended since I was borne were neuer receiued for articles of faith till they were neuer receiued for articles of faith till they were propounded for such by that Councell Secondly to grant them as much as they desire I yet except against their proposition as false because there is no necessitie that the being of true faith and such a profession thereof must alwayes goe together For such a publike profession of faith is neither of the essence of true faith as a reasonable soule is of the essence of a man nor proceedeth from the essence thereof as the faculty of speech doth from the essence of man neither are they lincked inseparably together by any ordianance of God as faith and iustification are The two former I am not out of doubt all Papists will grant If they fly to the last let them shew the record or deed wherein that coniunction of true faith and such a publike profession of it is inrolled and ingrossed Will they tell vs I know not what goodly matters of the visibilitie of the Church what is that but to beg the question For we denie that as no lesse vncertaine and vntrue then the other The assumption also is false which auoucheth so confidently that The professours of the Protestants faith in such things As they dissent from the Church of Rome in cannot be shewed in all ages from time to time since our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles If we call for a proofe of this they bid vs shew a beadroll of their names that were professours of our faith what if we cannot will they conclude thereupon that it cannot be done there may be a Catalogue though we cannot shew it Which cannot seeme strange to any man that shall consider that the Papists had for many yeares yea ages the whole sway command of Christendome and laboured all they could to make away if it had been possible not onely the writings but the memorie of all such as made any kind of opposition to their doctrine or proceedings Yet by the gracious mighty prouideÌ„ce of God it hath come to passe that the registers of their own bloudy persecutors haue by the worthy paines of som of our writers afforded the world a view of the names of many holy Martyrs confessours which from time to time haue refused as we do now to acknowledge many of the points wherein we dissent from the Church of Rome and it cannot be looked for that wee should shew that all of them haue been denied because many of them were first bred and hatched in the late Councell of Trent and were neuer articles of faith till then Wherefore to returne to my first conclusion since the faith of the Church of Rome is erroneous both in the foundation of it which is the authoritie of the Church and in many particular articles thereof I may boldly affirme that it is to be shunned as a perilous rocke whereon many haue suffered shipwrack of their eternall saluation CHAP. XVII That the faith of the Church of Rome is to refused vpon paine of damnation VVHen I first deliuered the proposition I intended to handle that there might be no ignorance by errour
RVNNE FROM ROME OR A TREATISE SHEWING THE necessitie of Separating from the Church of Rome Disputed in these Termes EVERIE MAN IS bound vpon paine of Damnation to refuse the Faith of the Church of Rome By ANTONY WOTTON B. D. REVEL 18. 4. Come out of her my people that ye be not Partakers of her sinnes and that ye receiue not of her plagues LONDON Printed by W. J. for Nicholas Bourne and are to be sold at his Shop at the South side of the Royall-Exchange 1624. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE EDWARD LORD DENNY OF WALTHAM MY ESPECIALL GOOD LORD Right Honorable WHen the great God of heauen and earth proclaimed by his Prophet to Eli 1. Sam. 2. 30 that he would honor them that honour him he therein implied both an example and a charge for all men to do the like Therefore is this actioÌ„ of honouring theÌ„ that honour God one of those whereof the holy Ghost made choise Psal 15. 4. that he might by them giue vs notice of those men which shal abide in the Tabernacle of the Lord and dwell in his holy hill It is my desire to performe this dutie to God by this seruice to your Lordship wherein I feele and confesse that I receiue far more then I can possibly giue For by desiring to honour our Lordship for your zeale in honouring God I encrease mine owne hope that I am of their number who haue obtained already some part of his grace and shall hereafter haue entrance into his glorie Giue me leaue noble Lord to forget in this respect my particular obligation to your Honour for your continuall bountie to me and good opinion of me that I haue an vnfained desire to maintaine the truth of God profest in this famous Church of England against the subtill and dangerous errors of the Romish Synagogue For I truly and willingly professe that the consideration of your Lordships feruent zeale for the glory of God zealous loue of his truth and true detestation of Popery haue so possest and rauisht my heart with a longing after your Honour that it will not suffer any other of your noble vertues though many and great either to come into comparison with it or to haue the least place in my thoughts while it is in presence This in my apprehension is as much to true honour as in Demosthenes opinion pronuntiation was to true eloquence Let them that will dote vpon their worldly greatnesse as the Peacocke is in loue with his owne feathers It is true honour to be honourable in his sight who onely is worthy of honour and yet graciously vouchsafeth to giue and to command that honour be giue to his faithfull seruants This is the foundation of your Lordships honour in my heart and vpon this ground wil I daily offer vp my poore prayers to God for your good Lordship your noble and truly vertuous Lady and hopefull of spring that it would please him to shewer downe euery day more more the comfortable dew of his grace and blessing vpon euery one of you to the increase of all honour in this life and happinesse in the life to come through Jesus Christ our Lord In whom I shall euer be at your Lordships seruice to be commanded Antony Wotton Tower-Hill May 3. 1624. TO THE CHRISTIAN READER THe Councell of Trent confirmed by the Pope is the chiefe Oracle of the Church of Rome from it she receiues all doctrines necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation Romish Catholikes hold it for a principle that whatsoeuer is deliuered therein for doctrine is an article of faith and must stedfastly be beleeued vpon paine of damnation he that doth not is pronounced an Hereticke and is made lyable to a supposed heauy curse What little reason there is that Papists should yeeld such blind obedience to the Canons of that Councell may appeare by a plaine but true testimonie which was giuen thereunto by a Bishop a member of that Church and Councell who was present thereat This testimonie I haue thought good to prefixe to this my Treatise because in it I dispute against the doctrine of faith deliuered in the said Councell Andraeas Dudithius Bishop of Quinquecclesiae Quinquecclesiae is acitty in Lungarie calleâ— in German â—unsâ—â—rchin in Turkish â—nden or 〈◊〉 and Embassadour in the Councell of Trent for Maximilan the second Emperour in an Epistle to the said Emperour wherein he deliuereth his iudgement about granting the Cup to the Laitie and the marriage of Priests writes thus of the Councell of Trent WHat good could be done in that Councell where voyces were taken by number not by weight If argument if reason might haue preuailed if we had had some and those not many to take part with vs though we should haue bin but a few yet had vve ouerthrowne the greÌ„at forces of our aduersaries but when all stood vpon number wherein we were much inferiour we could not get the better though our cause were the better The Pope was able to set an hundreth of his against euery one of ours and if an hundreth were not sufficient he could vpon a sundaine haue created a thousand to succour them that were readie to faint and perish Therefore we might see euery day hungrie and needie Bishops and these for the most part beardlesse younkers and wastfully ryotous come in flocks to Trent hired to giue their voices according to the Popes humour vnlearned indeed and foolish but of good vse to him for their audaciousnesse and impudencie When these fellowes were ioyued to the Popes old slatterers then iniquitie got the vpper hand and triumphed neither could any thing be decreed but according to their liking who thought it the highest point of religion to defend the power and royot of the Pope There was in the Councell a graue and learned man who could not endure this indignitie but the Councell by terrour threatning and bayting him as one that was no good Catholike drew him to yeeld to that which he did no way like of In a word things are brought to that passe by their dishonesty who came prepared and made for the nonce that it seemed to be a Councell not of Bishops but of puppies not of men but of images who as it is reported of Daedalus Statues were moued not by their owne but by other mens nerues and muscles Those hireling Bishops most of them were like Countrey Bagpipes which must haue breath blowne into them before they can sound The holy Ghost had nothing to doe with that Couenticle all things were argued by human pollicy which was wholly employed in maintaining the immoderate indeed most shamelesse Lordship Domination of the Popet From thence were answers looked and wayted for as it were from the Oracles of Delphos or Dodona from thence the holy Ghost who as they brag is President of their Councell was sent shut vp in the Carriers budgets and packes who a thing worthy to be laught at when the waters were vp as it falls
baptisme May we not iustly ranke them with those luke-warme Revel 3. 15. 16. Laodiceans that were neither hot nor cold fish nor flesh And may not they certainely looke for the euent which our Lord Iesus threatneth that he will spue them out of his mouth It is high time therefore for all men 1. Reg. 18. 21. to resolue themselues whether they will follow God or Baal Christ or Antichrist and not to continue halting betwixt two opinions I cannot reasonably conceiue whence this want of resolution should proceed in them that are not desperately carelesse or profainely politicke but onely from ignorance of the necessity of being separated from the church of Rome The clouds of this ignorance I desire and purpose to scatter by the light of truth that all men which will not shut their eyes against the beames thereof may see both the way wherein they are and the place it leades them too Now to the end I may the bettor vnderstand my selfe and be vnderstood by them that seeke for resolution if they doubt or confirmation if they be resolued I will labour to speak as plaine as the matter will giue me leaue to doe desiring to haue that I deliuer rather iudged of thèn wondered at And because we are accused by the Church of Rome sometimes of heresie sometimes of schisme I will apply my disputation and discourse to the iustifying of our forefathers in separating from the popish religion and our selues in continuing that separation Wherefore that we may proceed orderly and plainely I propound the matter to be disputed in these termes Euery man is bound vpon paine of damnation to refuse the faith of the Church of Rome This proposition or sentence hath two things in it to be proued That 1. The faith of the Church of Rome is to be refused That 2. It is to be refused vpon paine of damnation These two I will handle seuerally First by shewing the necessitie of that refusall Secondly by setting out the penaltie if that faith be not refused And that nothing may be wanting which may helpe the simplest to conceiue and iudge aright of that which shall be spoken before I come to debate the point I will declare the meaning of the termes in which I haue deliuered it as shortly as I can with plainenesse By the faith of the Church of Rome I meane the Doctrine of the said Church deliuered by it in certaine Articles propositions or sentences to be beleeued by all men that desire to be saued as matters reuealed by God to that end This their faith I consider as one individuall or singular thing For although it may indeed be devided into many seuerall Articles of which it consists and is as it were compacted or framed yet it is conceiued by themselues as one intire body because they are all knit together by the same bond namely by being assented to or beleeued vpon one and the same ground or reason which is the spirit of that body and are all to be receiued a like vnder paine of the same Auathema or curse if they be not receiued and this is especially to be obserued as the maine point in this iuquir That the faith of the Church of Rome is so to be conceiued of it appeareth manifestly by Mr. Fisher the Iesuites Mr. Fisher Trealise of saith vnder the name of AD. treatise of Faith vnder the name of A. D. wherein the whole fourth chapter is spent to shew that Faith must be intire Faith saith he must be intire whole and sound in all points and it is not sufficient to beleeue stedfastly some points mis-beleeuing or not beleeuing obstinately other some or any one The reason thereof followes a little after where he saith that Not to beleeue any one point whatsoeuer which God by reualing it doth testisie to bo true and which by his Church he hath commanded vs to beleeue must needs be damnable as being a not able iniury to Gods verity and a great disobedience to his will To the same purpose writes the titular Archbishop of Spalato that All Articles of faith determined by Spalato Consil 〈◊〉 pag 20. the Church are fundamentall and that none of them may be denied without heresie By this it comes to passe that whosoeuer is a true member of the Church of Rome must as stedfastly and resolutely beleeue the least point of reliques and Images deliuered by the Councell of Trent as the greatest mysteries of the God-head the Trinitie the Redomption of the world by the Lord Iesus and that if he denie any of the former he is no lesse an hereticke then if he did refuse to beleeue any of the latter yea though he beleeue all they propound to be beleeued saue some one small matter he is for want of beleeuing that one if he know the Church propounds it to be beleeued a miscreant and mis-beleeuer the reason of this is that if the Church may erre in one thing it may erre in an other and so can be no sure foundation of faith But what is it to refuse the faith of the Church of Rome surely nothing else but not to acknowledge the doctrine deliuered by the Church of Rome to be true but to abhoire it as false I speake not of euery particuler point but of all ioyntly together according to my former exposition For I doe freely and willingly confesse that the Papists hold many great misteries of diuinitie truely and soundly wherein also we agree with them but yet I say we may not at any hand receiue their faith for true as it is deliuered by them for one intire bodie of diuinitie reuealed by God to be acknowledged by all men that will be saued So then to refuse the faith of the Church of Rome is not to beleeue that it is true or to beleeue tht it is false and this I say is required of euery man vpon paine of damnation The exposition of the second point vpon paine of damnation I referre to the place where it is to be handled after I haue dispatched that which is first to be debated CHAP. III. Of the Authors that haue formerly hold the proposition handled in this Treatise THere are not a few that looke more after the man then after the matter and inquire rather who is the writer then what is written Therefore least the meannesse of my condition and abilities should bring some preiudice to the truth I search for giue me leaue I pray you in the first place to shew that the point I intend by Gods gracious assistance to proue is no new conceit or deuise of mine but a matter aduisedly resolued of and set down by more then one of the worthies of our church and nation Amongst whom the first in time and authoritie was that rare and pretious Iewel Bishop of Salisburie They B. Iewel des apol paro ◠cap 22. divis 1. haue no cause saith he of the Papists to complaine of our departing and to call
to be found in the Councell of Trent Sess 4. which is the place I alledged ere-while It is committed singularly to Peter and his successors that they should teach all men what is to bee held concerning the doctrine of faith For the expounding whereof he saith a little after Sect. Si etiam that The Lord speakes of a singular office of teaching the whol Church by appointing and decreeing what is to be beleeued of all men And againe he saith that The Councels Popes execute the office of a Iudge committed Cap. 10. Sect. Respond aliud est to them by God What the Office of a Iudge is he shews in the same place a few lines before To explication after the manner of a Iudge there is authoritie required A Iudge deliuereth his sentence as a thing that necessarily must be followed To conclude hee tells vs in the same tenth chapter that Sect. Septiâ—um argumentum Christians who are sure the Church cannot erre in expounding the doctrine of faith are bound to receiue that doctrine and not to doubt whether those things be so or no. This matter Bellarmine makes plaine to all men by shewing the manner of this Office in this sort The Scripture for Cap. 10. Sect. Respondeâ— Christus It selfe needs not the witnes of men for it is most true in it selfe whether it be vnderstood or not but for our sake it needs the witnes of the Church because otherwise wee are not certaine what bookes are sacred and diuine nor what is the true and proper meaning In the same Chapter he giues vs to vnderstand what manner of foundation the testimony of the church is The word of God deliuered by the Prophets and Apostles is the first Sect. Respondeo Ad hoc foundation of our faith for therefore we beleeue whatsoeuer we beleeue because God hath reuealed it by his Prophets and Apostles But we adde that besides this first foundation there is another secondary foundation needfull to wit the testimony of the Church for we know not certainly what God hath reuealed but by the testimony of the Church Therefore our faith cleaueth to Christ the first truth reuealing those mysteries as to the first foundation It cleaues also to Peter that is to the Pope propounding and expounding these mysteries as to a secondary foundation And to make the matter yet more plaine he speakes thus in the same tenth chap. Sect. Respondeo verbum We are to know Sect. Respondeâ— verbum that a Proposition or article of faith is concluded in such a Syllogisme as this Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in the Scriptures is true But this God hath reuealed in the Scriptures Therefore this is true Of the first of these Propositions no man makes any question The second is held for certaine truth amongst all Catholikes for it is grounded vpon the testimony of the Church that is the Councell or the Pope By which it appeares how little Mr. Fisher vnderstands the doctrine whereof he makes profession or how vnaduisedly he deliuereth his opinion For whereas Bellarmine will haue a two-fold foundation primary and secondary Mr. Fisher will acknowledge but one namely the authority of God speaking by the mouth of the church Christian beleefe saith hee ought onely to bee Treat of Faith in the Preface Sect of which point grounded vpon the authority of God speaking by the mouth of the Church We haue seene Bellarmines opinion of this matter which indeed agrees very well with the words of the Councell where it challengeth the office of interpreting the Scriptures For in that clayme it presumes that the diuine truth is already reuealed and that it is the first foundation of our faith to which the office of the Church is added which is but a secondary foundation Now by these places of the Counceâ—l and Bellarmine it is cleare that The foundation of the Romish faith is the authority of the Church This foundation of faith say wee is false and erroneous That our Sauiour Christ and his Prophets and Apostles are the foundation of faith wee beleeue and acknowledge and in this we and they agree That secondary foundation which lyeth in the authority and testimony of the church we refuse as false and naught and in this lyeth the true difference betwixt vs and them in this point as besides other De Script quaest 5. cap. 3. Apol. part 2. chap. 3. diuis 2. 11 Dr. Whitaker hath noted and the reuerend B. Iewell And this indeed is the main reason why we may not ioyn with them If they demand of vs VVhy we receiue not this authority of the church for a foundation of faith VVe answer Because we find no commission in the word of God wherby any such office is conueyed vnto it Neither deale wee herein any otherwise then reason and law direct men to do in the like case For is any man so destitute of reason or so ignorant of the law that he would receiue a man for L. Chancellour L. Treasurer or Lord Chiefe Iustice that were not able to shew any commission for the hauing and executing such an office And shall wee in a businesse of such importance that concernes our free-hold not onely for our present being of the church but for our future becomming heires of glory in heauen giue credit to men vpon their bare word without sight of their commission VVerfore doth our Lord and Sauiour so often in the Scriptures plead his authority from God warranted by the old Testament and vpbraid the Iewes with lightnesse and folly for being ready to receiue one that should come in his owne name If then the Papists would haue vs beleeue that their church is appointed to bee a foundation let them shew their warrant for it and we will accept it and build our faith vpon it But we looke that their commission should be very plain and certaine because it is of such a matter as no naturall reason can conceiue to be true For who would imagine or beleeue that the Apostles who had a little before receiued full power of order and iurisdiction ioyntly and equally with Peter as Bellarmine himselfe confesseth should suddenly De Rom. Poâ—t lib. 1. cap. 12. Sect. vt autem haue their authority abridged and be made subiect to Peter yea to his successors too as it fell out with S. Iohn to learne of them which wee bookes of Scripture and what was the meaning of the seuerall places or texts and what was true what false in Diuinity Besides the matter it selfe is of such importance by their doctrine that without the constant beliefe thereof and obedience according thereto there is no possibility of saluation For Whosoeuer saith Bellarmine will not be sed by Peter De verb. Dei lib 3. cap. 5. Sect. quartum that is learne of him or his successors as iudges and determiners what he is to take for matter of faith and what is the sense of the Scripture is none
That which the Apostle commanded the Thessalouians to keepe was a sauing faith Therefore some sauing truth is contained in tradition There is no end of Bellarmines begging We must deny as before that whatsoeuer the Apostles taught is recorded and come to posteritie To the proposition I answer in particular that being vnderstood of that time when the Apostle writ that Epistle it is true he had then deliuered some things by word of mouth and not written them and those hee commandeth them to keepe But what proofe can Bellarmine make that those things were not written afterwards The assumption is not easily to be proued that those things were sauing truth Why doth not Bellarmine tell vs what they were Me thinks he dareth not so much as guesse at them otherwise he would let vs know at the least what his Catholickes worthily take them to be Would any man dally thus in a matter of faith to bee beleeued vpon paine of damnation Bellarmine will make amends for the want of weight in his reasons by the number of them and he propoundeth his fift thus to bee deliuered Bellar. ubi supra sect quaitam That which was committed to Timothy 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2. is contained in tradition That which was there committed to Timothy is a sauing 1. Tim. 6. 20. 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2. truth Therefore some sauing truth is contained in tradition Here he beggeth againe as before but wee cannot grant that whatsoeuer the Apostles preached is remaining vpon record to posteritie If that were granted yet should I thinke the proposition no sufficient warrant for an Article of faith Therefore Bellarmine offereth proofe of it on this maner That which Timothy had heard of Saint Paul 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2 and was to deliuer to faithfull men able to teach other also that is contained in tradition But that which was committed to Timothy 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2 he had heard of Saint Paul and was to deliuer to faithfull men able to teach other also Therefore that which was committed to Timothy 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2 is contained in tradition Least wee should deny the first part or Proposition of this Syllogisme because the things so delivered and given in charge by the Apostle might be matter for the present vse of the Church and such as needed not to be alwayes knowne Bellarmine telleth us that by those things so heard and so to be committed the vnderstanding of the sense of the scriptures and other doctrine is signified so that the whole force of his Argument lyeth in this interpretation which he never offereth to proue Therefore vnlesse we will take his bare word for proofe wee are as farre to seeke as we were before Now that we haue no reason to doe so I thinke it may appeare by those things which I will now propound to the consideration of all reasonable men First then I would know oâ— Bellarmine whether by Vnderstanding of the sense he meane generall rules for the vnderstanding of it or the sense of particular places Secondly I demaund whether he deliuered to him the sense oâ— euery place of Scripture or of some onely Whether he answer this or that I aske thirdly what is become of those rules and expositions How will he proue to vs that they haue beene continued from time to time till now If they haue not beene continued what haue wee to do with them who dispute onely of such traditions as are in the possession and vse of the present Church Fourthly is it likely euen in Bellarmines iudgement that Saint Paul would take vpon him to instruct Timothy in the sense of any place of Scripture when as the office of interpreting the Scripture is committed by the Councell of Trent to the Church that is as Bellarmine expoundeth it to Peter and his successours Did he meane ambitiously to vsurpe Peters office or to send him to Peter or his successours to learne of them whether the interpretation he had giuen were true or no. Touching the second part of the first Syllogisme that Those thinges which were committed to Timothy were sauing truths Bellarmine saith nothing which argueth that he knew not what to say What reason haue we then to imagine that they were sauing truths or that this argument concludeth any thing for the doctrine of the Councell of Trent concering traditions There is yet one argument more in the same fift chapter thus to be concluded Those things which Iohn had to write 2. Ioh. 11 and Bellar. ubi supra Sect. ultimum testimonium 3. Ioh. 14. are contained in tradition for he saith he would not write them But those things which he had then to write were sauing truths taught by the Apostles Therefore some sauing truths taught by the Apostles are contained in tradition I am inforced here also to repeate my former answer that Bellaâ—mine still takes it for granted that whatsoeuer the Apostles taught is continued to posteritie which we denie and no papist can proue His assumption or minor is to weake to beare vp the weight of an Article of faith vnlesse he be able to â—â—ll 〈◊〉 certainly what the things were which the Apostle would not write and to whom hee did or at the least that hee did afterward deliuer them to some body from whom the Church hath receiued them Till we know what they were how shall we be sure they were part of the sauing truth CHAP. XV. Of two other arguments of Bellarmine VVEE haue done with the fift Chapter and are now to examine two arguments set downe chap. 4 the former I frame thus That there are Scriptures that these we haue he they is â— Bellar de verbo Dei non scripto cap. 4 Sect. quarto quinto Soxio contained in tradition For we cannot find them in the Scriptures But that there are Scriptures that these wee haue are they is part of sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles Therefore some sauing truthes taught by Christ and his Apostles are contained in tradition It hath appeared by my answer to Bellarmines arguments that he can find no place of Scripture that sendeth vs to tradition for any part of sauing truth taught by our Lord or his Apostles Wee might therefore conclude that there are no such traditions without troubling our selues any further But that we may dit vp the mouths of the Papists wee will bestow a little time and paines in these arguments If there had beene no more intended by the Councell of Trent in the decree touching tradition but to signifie that these three points are contained in tradition the danger had not beene great for then both the number and the particulars had been determined but the Papists by vertue of that Article take authoritie to thrust what they list vpon the Church and warrant it by tradition Thus much to the argument in generall Particularly I answer