he_o be_v a_o papist_n ever_o profess_v the_o truth_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o they_o do_v and_o do_v err_v in_o very_a many_o thing_n but_o yet_o they_o do_v and_o do_v profess_v some_o truth_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o many_o which_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o time_n of_o popish_a darkness_n die_v god_n servant_n if_o you_o think_v that_o a_o man_n be_v wide_o in_o many_o thing_n be_v wide_o in_o all_o thing_n then_o because_o you_o m._n penry_n have_v deliver_v many_o blasphemous_a anabaptisticall_a and_o other_o error_n i_o may_v just_o conclude_v that_o you_o hold_v nothing_o sound_o but_o i_o will_v not_o offer_v you_o such_o measure_n if_o i_o do_v i_o shall_v deal_v absurd_o with_o you_o how_o profess_v papist_n be_v idolater_n appear_v in_o my_o second_o proposition_n which_o be_v new_o add_v to_o my_o former_a treatise_n thither_o i_o refer_v you_o i._o penry_n antichrist_n i_o grant_v shall_v sit_v as_o god_n in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n but_o it_o be_v 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the_o forefather_n be_v not_o altogether_o true_a in_o popery_n for_o there_o be_v many_o large_a region_n now_o profess_v popery_n where_o not_o so_o much_o as_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n be_v hear_v until_o they_o be_v become_v gross_o popish_a so_o that_o their_o first_o step_n be_v out_o of_o paganism_n unto_o popery_n and_o this_o be_v the_o estate_n of_o all_o those_o poor_a oppress_a vassal_n the_o west_n indian_n who_o now_o in_o great_a number_n profess_v romish_a idolatry_n for_o at_o such_o time_n as_o the_o spaniard_n invade_v their_o land_n bring_v upon_o they_o the_o most_o miserable_a slavery_n of_o the_o body_n &_o soul_n that_o be_v upon_o any_o people_n under_o heaven_n they_o have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o hear_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o christ_n but_o be_v most_o heathenish_a and_o senseless_a idolater_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o the_o popish_a historiographer_n themselves_o who_o write_v the_o story_n of_o those_o time_n and_o therefore_o to_o omit_v who_o 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with_o their_o authority_n r._n some_o if_o your_o writing_n be_v as_o sound_o as_o they_o be_v absurd_a they_o will_v give_v many_o time_n great_a advantage_n to_o the_o papist_n anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n if_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v never_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n since_o antichrist_n plant_v his_o pestilent_a chair_n there_o then_o in_o your_o judgement_n the_o pope_n be_v not_o antichrist_n for_o antichrist_n do_v and_o must_v sit_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n that_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n i_o have_v handle_v this_o argument_n before_o i_o rest_v in_o that_o i_o have_v write_v there_o you_o say_v that_o a_o circumcise_a edomite_n be_v receive_v into_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n shall_v content_v himself_o with_o his_o circumcision_n in_o idumea_n because_o circumcision_n be_v the_o lord_n ordinance_n etc._n etc._n i_o agree_v with_o you_o in_o this_o if_o the_o edomitish_a circumcision_n be_v the_o lord_n ordinance_n than_o it_o be_v a_o seal_n of_o god_n covenant_n to_o the_o idumean_n and_o consequent_o the_o edomite_n in_o your_o judgement_n be_v not_o alien_n from_o god_n covenant_n for_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n do_v import_n and_o presuppose_v a_o covenant_n beside_o if_o the_o edomitish_a circumcision_n be_v true_a circumcision_n and_o the_o edomitish_a church_n no_o church_n then_o a_o sacrament_n be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n how_o like_v you_o this_o m._n penry_n you_o know_v my_o meaning_n you_o add_v that_o you_o call_v not_o popish_a baptism_n in_o question_n here_o i_o grant_v you_o do_v not_o but_o a_o little_a after_o you_o use_v these_o word_n viz._n where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a christ_n whereunto_o man_n can_v be_v engraft_v by_o baptism_n there_o true_a baptism_n as_o touch_v the_o substance_n can_v be_v get_v etc._n etc._n but_o in_o popery_n there_o be_v no_o true_a christ_n etc._n etc._n mendacem_fw-la oportet_fw-la esse_fw-la memorem_fw-la your_o memory_n be_v very_o short_a you_o will_v never_o i_o think_v have_v vent_v such_o motley_n stuff_n as_o this_o if_o you_o have_v think_v it_o will_v have_v be_v look_v on_o i_o can_v assure_v you_o that_o beside_o i_o who_o you_o have_v put_v to_o a_o little_a pain_n your_o treatise_n have_v be_v view_v and_o review_v by_o very_a many_o learned_a man_n who_o condemn_v it_o for_o a_o foolish_a and_o fantastical_a babble_n if_o the_o west_n indian_n after_o profession_n of_o their_o belief_n in_o the_o holy_a trinity_n be_v baptize_v as_o you_o say_v by_o popish_a shaveling_n i_o assure_v myself_o that_o they_o receive_v true_a baptism_n &_o be_v therefore_o engraft_v into_o christ_n we_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n need_v not_o sail_v thanks_o be_v to_o god_n to_o the_o massemonger_n in_o cuba_n hispaniola_n mexico_n or_o any_o other_o part_n of_o the_o indian_n we_o have_v god_n holy_a
be_v make_v by_o idolater_n i_o make_v no_o question_n and_o when_o do_v god_n give_v idolater_n leave_v to_o make_v minister_n see_v therefore_o that_o popish_a priest_n be_v no_o minister_n i_o see_v no_o show_n of_o probability_n whereupon_o my_o faith_n or_o the_o faith_n of_o any_o can_v be_v assure_v to_o receyve_v true_a baptism_n at_o their_o hand_n unless_o it_o can_v be_v show_v by_o you_o m._n some_o that_o either_o there_o may_v be_v faith_n where_o there_o be_v no_o promise_n or_o that_o there_o be_v a_o promise_n to_o receive_v a_o sacrament_n where_o there_o be_v no_o minister_n which_o no_o man_n of_o any_o christian_n modesty_n will_v affirm_v hence_o also_o it_o follow_v that_o neither_o the_o obstinate_a crew_n of_o recusant_n in_o this_o land_n who_o offer_v their_o child_n to_o be_v profane_v by_o traitorous_a and_o runagate_n jesuite_n nor_o any_o else_o within_o the_o body_n of_o the_o romish_a babylon_n can_v assure_v themselves_o that_o their_o child_n 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will_v not_o present_o write_v but_o this_o i_o tell_v you_o that_o this_o argument_n do_v not_o necessary_o follow_v viz._n true_a circumcision_n be_v give_v in_o idumea_n and_o true_a baptism_n have_v be_v &_o may_v be_v give_v of_o excommunicate_v heretic_n therefore_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n in_o the_o former_a time_n may_v require_v circumcision_n among_o the_o edomite_n or_o they_o of_o hippo_n or_o carthage_n in_o latter_a time_n may_v require_v baptism_n among_o the_o donatist_n i._o penry_n my_o reason_n beside_o that_o they_o be_v no_o minister_n be_v these_o and_o i_o desire_v that_o they_o may_v be_v examine_v by_o you_o good_a m._n some_o where_o you_o must_v remember_v that_o i_o speak_v not_o of_o that_o which_o have_v be_v do_v yesterday_o but_o of_o they_o assurance_n that_o may_v be_v have_v of_o that_o which_o to_o morrow_n be_v to_o be_v do_v r._n some_o sir_n you_o desire_v i_o to_o examine_v your_o reason_n you_o shall_v have_v a_o easy_a suit_n of_o this_o for_o 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absurd_a write_n i_o shall_v wonder_v at_o you_o more_o than_o i_o do_v your_o reason_n such_o as_o they_o be_v do_v follow_v i._o penry_n where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a christ_n whereunto_o man_n can_v be_v engraft_v by_o baptism_n there_o true_a baptism_n as_o touch_v the_o substance_n can_v be_v get_v for_o what_o baptism_n be_v that_o which_o be_v not_o a_o engraff_n into_o the_o true_a christ_n but_o in_o popery_n there_o be_v no_o true_a christ_n whereunto_o man_n may_v be_v ingraff_v because_o he_o be_v not_o the_o true_a christ_n who_o either_o will_v not_o or_o can_v satisfy_v the_o wrath_n of_o god_n for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o elect_a without_o their_o merit_n and_o such_o be_v the_o christ_n profess_v in_o popery_n and_o no_o other_o therefore_o man_n can_v be_v assure_v to_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o baptism_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n r._n some_o i_o deny_v your_o minor_a proposition_n for_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v engraft_v 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and_o profession_n be_v all_o one_o to_o proceed_v because_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o reason_n thorough_o i_o will_v set_v it_o down_o in_o this_o sort_n the_o christ_n profess_v in_o popery_n be_v a_o divided_a christ_n and_o consequent_o not_o asleep_o true_a christ_n therefore_o none_o in_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v engraft_v by_o baptism_n into_o the_o true_a christ_n this_o be_v your_o reason_n m._n penry_n my_o answer_n be_v your_o antecedent_n be_v true_a i_o deny_v your_o argument_n my_o reason_n be_v the_o false_a profession_n of_o any_o man_n whatsoever_o can_v separat_fw-la christ_n from_o his_o own_o institution_n rom._n 3_o therefore_o see_v christ_n institution_n be_v in_o popish_a baptism_n the_o true_a christ_n be_v there_o that_o be_v in_o that_o baptism_n i_o do_v set_v down_o my_o word_n more_o wary_o than_o i_o need_v because_o i_o find_v you_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a wrangler_n and_o to_o take_v up_o that_o which_o i_o never_o let_v fall_n beside_o circumcision_n in_o idumea_n as_o you_o write_v be_v true_a circumcision_n and_o a_o seal_n of_o god_n covenant_n yet_o the_o edomite_n which_o you_o can_v deny_v fail_v in_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o almighty_a god_n i_o hope_v you_o see_v by_o this_o time_n that_o your_o argument_n be_v scopae_fw-la dissolutae_fw-la very_o loose_a ware_n and_o slender_o truss_v together_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o esteem_v they_o mountain_n but_o they_o be_v not_o worthy_a the_o name_n of_o mollhil_n i_o deal_v plain_o with_o you_o if_o my_o answer_n please_v you_o not_o confute_v they_o direct_o and_o not_o with_o if_n and_n and_o why_n in_o which_o kind_n of_o answer_v if_o i_o may_v call_v it_o answer_v you_o have_v a_o special_a grace_n i._o penry_n no_o man_n can_v assure_v himself_o to_o have_v the_o
of_o 80._o godly_a man_n he_o kill_v 70._o of_o they_o jer._n cap._n 41._o judas_n kiss_v christ_n but_o he_o betray_v he_o matth._n 26._o you_o use_v goodly_a word_n sometime_o but_o proud_a malice_n will_v appear_v it_o can_v be_v hide_v marcus_z cicero_z in_o his_o time_n have_v many_o hollow_a friend_n after_o his_o return_n from_o banishment_n he_o be_v revenge_v of_o they_o nihil_fw-la credendo_fw-la omne_fw-la cavendo_fw-la that_o be_v in_o credit_v they_o in_o nothing_o and_o beware_v of_o they_o in_o every_o thing_n if_o i_o serve_v you_o so_o i_o can_v not_o be_v just_o blame_v you_o pretend_v great_a sincerity_n and_o innocence_n but_o your_o heretical_a absurdity_n in_o your_o treatise_n and_o your_o shameless_a deal_n with_o our_o magistrate_n and_o learned_a man_n do_v cry_v aloud_o that_o you_o be_v in_o deed_n very_o little_o acquaint_v with_o sincerity_n and_o innocence_n i_o tell_v you_o plain_o that_o i_o like_v better_a humile_fw-la peccatum_fw-la quà m_fw-la superbam_fw-la innocentiam_fw-la that_o be_v humble_a sin_n then_o proud_a innocence_n the_o humble_a publican_n be_v more_o account_v of_o then_o the_o proud_a pharisee_n luk._n 18._o i_o pray_v god_n with_o all_o my_o heart_n to_o keep_v i_o and_o all_o such_o as_o love_v the_o religion_n and_o detest_v your_o anabaptisticall_a fancy_n from_o such_o as_o you_o and_o the_o fantastical_a sort_n be_v you_o and_o they_o be_v strange_a cattle_n your_o hope_n that_o i_o will_v grant_v you_o the_o cause_n you_o defend_v be_v a_o vain_a hope_n for_o i_o think_v great_a scorn_n to_o be_v one_o of_o ignorant_a penries_n disciple_n that_o be_v a_o proud_a and_o ignorant_a anabaptist_n if_o you_o will_v have_v any_o thing_n at_o my_o hand_n in_o divinity_n matter_n you_o must_v gain_v it_o by_o force_n of_o argument_n if_o you_o think_v that_o i_o will_v come_v off_o otherwise_o you_o be_v in_o a_o wrong_a box_n for_o i_o intend_v not_o to_o be_v at_o your_o whistle_n yea_o i_o require_v and_o charge_v you_o in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n if_o you_o be_v not_o void_a of_o grace_n to_o confess_v your_o ignorance_n to_o detest_v your_o error_n to_o yield_v unto_o god_n truth_n that_o god_n blessing_n may_v rest_v upon_o you_o if_o you_o refuse_v to_o do_v this_o take_v heed_n that_o god_n vengeance_n seize_v not_o upon_o you_o i._o penry_n last_o if_o man_n may_v be_v assure_v that_o they_o can_v have_v the_o true_a substance_n of_o baptism_n in_o popery_n than_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o keep_v their_o child_n from_o popish_a baptism_n if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o baptism_n in_o the_o world_n to_o be_v have_v for_o man_n may_v come_v to_o their_o baptism_n &_o detest_v their_o corruption_n if_o it_o be_v god_n baptism_n as_o you_o m._n some_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v pag._n 20._o and_o they_o can_v add_v a_o edify_a word_n unto_o the_o sacrament_n if_o the_o recital_n of_o the_o word_n of_o institution_n be_v a_o edify_a word_n and_o that_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o sacrament_n both_o which_o you_o have_v write_v page_n 23._o 24._o but_o man_n ought_v rather_o to_o keep_v their_o child_n unbaptise_v then_o to_o offer_v they_o to_o be_v profane_v by_o popish_a baptism_n both_o for_o the_o former_a reason_n and_o because_o we_o ought_v to_o have_v no_o more_o fellowship_n with_o papist_n in_o the_o service_n of_o god_n then_o with_o pagane_n idolater_n m._n caluine_n have_v write_v otherwise_o in_o this_o point_n therefore_o again_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o word_n r._n some_o i_o will_v answer_v this_o section_n of_o you_o both_o brief_o and_o round_o by_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n that_o baptism_n deliver_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v and_o be_v god_n baptism_n i_o make_v no_o question_n for_o proof_n of_o this_o point_n i_o have_v set_v down_o weighty_a reason_n in_o my_o former_a treatise_n one_o of_o m._n caluines_n a_o other_o ab_fw-la absurdo_fw-la your_o answer_n to_o they_o be_v very_o foolish_a and_o be_v so_o account_v of_o by_o the_o learned_a sort_n i_o have_v examine_v they_o a_o little_a in_o this_o treatise_n it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o there_o be_v &_o be_v true_a baptism_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n before_o you_o deny_v it_o not_o but_o now_o the_o case_n be_v alter_v you_o account_v it_o a_o error_n to_o affirm_v it_o what_o mutability_n be_v this_o he_o that_o will_v sail_v after_o your_o compass_n for_o divinity_n matter_n shall_v prove_v as_o giddy_a as_o a_o goose_n i_o pray_v god_n with_o all_o my_o heart_n to_o bless_v his_o people_n in_o england_n &_o wales_n and_o to_o keep_v they_o from_o such_o blind_a guide_n as_o the_o ignorant_a sort_n be_v and_o from_o such_o blind_a guide_n as_o the_o ignorant_a sort_n be_v and_o from_o such_o shameless_a and_o fantastical_a guide_n as_o you_o m._n penry_n be_v concern_v this_o question_n viz._n whether_o man_n ought_v to_o offer_v their_o child_n to_o popish_a baptism_n if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o baptism_n in_o the_o world_n to_o be_v have_v m._n penry_n say_v one_o while_n that_o they_o ought_v if_o popish_a baptism_n be_v god_n baptism_n which_o before_o he_o deny_v not_o an_o other_o while_n he_o be_v peremptory_a that_o man_n ought_v rather_o to_o keep_v their_o child_n unbaptise_v his_o reason_n be_v because_o we_o ought_v to_o have_v no_o more_o fellowship_n with_o papist_n in_o god_n scruice_n then_o with_o pagane_n idolater_n the_o issue_n therefore_o now_o be_v first_o whether_o infant_n ought_v rather_o to_o be_v keep_v unbaptise_v then_o to_o be_v present_v to_o popish_a baptism_n second_o whether_o no_o more_o fellowship_n be_v to_o be_v have_v with_o papist_n in_o god_n service_n then_o with_o heathen_a idolater_n concern_v the_o first_o question_n m._n caluines_n resolution_n be_v affirmative_a if_o the_o parent_n which_o they_o can_v do_v without_o peril_n of_o life_n do_v public_o detest_v the_o popish_a corruption_n m._n caluines_n reason_n be_v the_o omit_v of_o baptism_n be_v contempt_n of_o christianity_n cal._n epist_n 104._o of_o this_o judgement_n be_v melanchthon_n and_o peter_n martyr_n cal._n epist_n 103._o &_o viretus_fw-la tract_n the_o commun_n fid_fw-we cum_fw-la papist_n cer._n pag._n 61_o 62_o 70._o i_o confess_v free_o that_o this_o be_v a_o very_a weighty_a question_n but_o in_o this_o our_o time_n a_o needless_a question_n and_o that_o man_n of_o great_a excellency_n for_o learning_n have_v their_o several_a judgement_n i_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o stir_v coal_n in_o this_o argument_n touch_v the_o other_o question_n m._n penry_n say_v that_o no_o more_o fellowship_n be_v to_o be_v have_v in_o religion_n matter_n with_o papist_n then_o with_o pagane_n idolater_n i_o dissent_v from_o he_o in_o this_o my_o reason_n be_v first_o the_o papist_n profess_v the_o holy_a trinity_n so_o do_v not_o the_o pagane_n idolater_n second_o the_o papist_n be_v not_o altogether_o alien_n from_o god_n external_a covenant_n but_o the_o heathen_a idolater_n as_o yet_o be_v last_o m._n caluine_n be_v very_o flat_a against_o you_o in_o this_o point_n epist_n 104._o in_o steed_n of_o answer_v his_o reason_n in_o that_o epistle_n you_o appeal_v to_o the_o word_n a_o strange_a kind_n of_o appeal_n when_o m._n caluines_n argument_n be_v draw_v out_o of_o the_o holy_a word_n if_o you_o will_v deal_v plain_o as_o you_o ought_v never_o piddle_v any_o long_o go_v through_o stitch_n withal_o see_v you_o be_v over_o shoe_n adventure_n over_o boot_n too_o confute_v caluines_n 104._o epistle_n and_o that_o which_o he_o have_v write_v very_o excellent_o upon_o the_o 20._o verse_n of_o the_o 16._o chap._n of_o ezechiel_n if_o you_o give_v the_o unset_a and_o fail_v whereof_o i_o make_v no_o question_n you_o shall_v lose_v no_o credit_n of_o learning_n for_o you_o never_o have_v any_o as_o yet_o qui_fw-la semel_fw-la verecundiae_fw-la limit_n etc._n etc._n you_o know_v the_o rest_n i._o penry_n see_v therefore_o in_o popery_n there_o be_v no_o church_n no_o ministry_n no_o christ_n see_v we_o ought_v in_o no_o case_n to_o be_v join_v with_o papist_n in_o their_o religion_n but_o to_o be_v separate_v from_o they_o as_o from_o those_o that_o be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v become_v a_o very_a filthy_a cage_n and_o nest_n of_o unclean_a and_o sacrilegious_a idolater_n therefore_o also_o it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o neither_o our_o popish_a recusant_n nor_o any_o else_o offer_v their_o child_n to_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a synagogue_n by_o those_o pollute_a and_o unclean_a priest_n may_v assure_v themselves_o that_o they_o can_v be_v there_o partaker_n of_o true_a baptism_n as_o touch_v the_o substance_n of_o baptism_n r._n some_o see_v therefore_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o learned_a man_n and_o all_o reform_a church_n there_o be_v in_o
edify_a word_n unless_o it_o be_v utter_v according_a to_o the_o ordinance_n both_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o person_n that_o utter_v the_o same_o and_o the_o end_n wherefore_o it_o be_v utter_v chap._n 8._o pag._n 99_o this_o be_v a_o popish_a error_n for_o the_o scripture_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v of_o credit_n in_o itself_o read_v my_o answer_n chap._n 8._o pag._n 102._o m._n penry_n say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n chap._n 23._o pag._n 175._o 176._o this_o be_v a_o gross_a error_n condemn_v of_o very_o famous_a man_n and_o all_o reform_a church_n if_o there_o be_v no_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n these_o absurdity_n will_v follow_v first_o the_o pope_n be_v not_o antichrist_n second_o the_o infant_n of_o papist_n may_v not_o be_v baptize_v in_o any_o reform_a church_n though_o some_o of_o the_o religion_n do_v present_v they_o to_o baptism_n and_o public_o undertake_v the_o good_a education_n of_o they_o read_v that_o which_o i_o have_v write_v chap._n 17._o pag._n 147._o 148._o 149._o and_o chap._n 23._o pag._n 176._o m._n penry_n say_v that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o church_n in_o popery_n our_o magistrate_n etc._n etc._n be_v schismatic_n inasmuch_o as_o they_o have_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n chap._n 17._o pag._n 151._o this_o be_v a_o gross_a and_o popish_a collection_n and_o can_v stand_v with_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o subject_n read_v my_o answer_n chap._n 17._o pag._n 151._o 152._o m._n penry_n write_v that_o man_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v not_o ingraff_v by_o baptism_n into_o a_o true_a christ_n his_o word_n be_v these_o where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a christ_n whereunto_o man_n can_v be_v ingraff_v by_o baptism_n there_o true_a baptism_n as_o touch_v the_o substance_n can_v be_v get_v etc._n etc._n but_o in_o popery_n there_o be_v no_o true_a christ_n whereinto_o man_n may_v be_v ingraff_v etc._n etc._n chap._n 23._o pag._n 173._o this_o be_v a_o gross_a error_n condemn_v of_o all_o famous_a writer_n and_o church_n read_v that_o which_o i_o have_v write_v chap._n 23._o pag._n 173._o &_o 174._o and_o cha_n 20._o pag._n 156._o 157._o master_n penry_n write_v that_o if_o baptism_n administer_v by_o unpreach_v minister_n be_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n he_o will_v wish_v none_o to_o offer_v themselves_o to_o that_o holy_a sacrament_n for_o six_o cause_n first_o we_o be_v already_o receyve_v into_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o church_n and_o acknowledge_v to_o have_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n in_o as_o much_o as_o we_o be_v once_o offer_v and_o receyve_v into_o the_o number_n of_o the_o godly_a by_o the_o outward_a element_n though_o corrupt_o to_o what_o end_n then_o shall_v baptism_n serve_v we_o again_o in_o his_o exhort_v to_o the_o governonr_n etc._n etc._n of_o wales_n pag._n 31._o if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o m._n penry_n say_v the_o outward_a and_o bare_a element_n deliver_v by_o he_o which_o in_o m._n penryes_n judgement_n be_v no_o minister_n be_v the_o seal_n of_o god_n covenant_n which_o be_v a_o most_o absurd_a heresy_n second_o the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o baptism_n to_o salvation_n by_o this_o mean_n may_v seem_v to_o be_v maintain_v false_a they_o which_o require_v man_n unbaptise_v to_o offer_v themselves_o to_o baptism_n be_v persuade_v that_o the_o contempt_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v damnable_a they_o do_v not_o think_v that_o all_o which_o die_v without_o baptism_n if_o contempt_n be_v absent_a be_v damn_v beside_o baptism_n be_v necessary_a in_o respect_n of_o our_o obedience_n but_o what_o obedience_n be_v perform_v when_o baptism_n be_v refuse_v three_o lest_o we_o shall_v seem_v to_o agree_v with_o the_o heretical_a catabaptist_n if_o no_o baptism_n be_v deliver_v by_o unpreach_v minister_n m._n penry_n be_v a_o heretical_a catabaptist_n if_o he_o dehort_v any_o such_o from_o holy_a baptism_n as_o be_v baptize_v by_o unpreach_v minister_n four_o other_o church_n have_v not_o public_o decide_v the_o cause_n they_o need_v not_o they_o make_v no_o question_n of_o it_o for_o with_o one_o voice_n they_o condemn_v your_o anabaptisticall_a fancy_n five_o that_o the_o practice_n shall_v not_o enforce_v they_o to_o be_v rebaptise_v which_o have_v be_v already_o baptize_v by_o such_o as_o have_v commission_n from_o the_o lord_n to_o deal_v in_o those_o mystery_n if_o they_o be_v already_o baptize_v no_o reason_n they_o shall_v desire_v a_o second_o baptism_n for_o baptism_n may_v not_o be_v iterate_v i_o have_v prove_v this_o point_n in_o my_o treatise_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o in_o this_o book_n chap._n 19_o pag._n 156._o last_o they_o who_o be_v now_o in_o the_o age_n of_o discretion_n have_v be_v baptize_v by_o idol_n minister_n be_v either_o call_v or_o not_o call_v to_o salvation_n if_o call_v why_o shall_v they_o be_v rebaptise_v see_v already_o they_o have_v be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o outward_a element_n and_o account_v in_o the_o number_n of_o christian_n if_o not_o call_v neither_o shall_v they_o be_v baptize_v until_o they_o declare_v by_o their_o work_n that_o they_o be_v god_n child_n if_o they_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n before_o they_o need_v not_o if_o they_o receive_v no_o sacrament_n they_o can_v abstain_v from_o baptism_n without_o intolerable_a both_o sin_n and_o vengeance_n none_o that_o be_v effectual_o call_v either_o have_v or_o will_v refuse_v to_o offer_v themselves_o to_o baptism_n which_o baptism_n before_o they_o have_v not_o cornelius_n example_n do_v teach_v we_o that_o acts._n 10._o yea_o i_o dare_v be_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o her_o majesty_n subject_n which_o be_v unbaptise_v and_o do_v not_o offer_v themselves_o to_o baptism_n be_v not_o as_o yet_o effectual_o call_v whatsoever_o either_o they_o or_o you_o pretend_v the_o reason_n be_v none_o be_v effectual_o call_v which_o be_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o god_n covenant_n the_o word_n of_o god_n covenant_n be_v these_o i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n gen._n 17._o be_v they_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o this_o covenant_n which_o either_o witting_o omit_v or_o wilful_o refuse_v baptism_n which_o be_v the_o seal_n of_o god_n covenant_n m._n penry_n say_v that_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n be_v necessary_o require_v in_o the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n chap._n 7_o pag._n 82._o if_o this_o be_v true_a all_o such_o as_o be_v baptise_a without_o a_o sermon_n receive_v no_o sacrament_n i_o refer_v you_o to_o my_o answer_n chap._n 7._o pag._n 84._o m._n penry_n say_v that_o baptism_n be_v not_o out_o of_o the_o church_n chap._n 23._o pag._n 176._o this_o be_v a_o gross_a error_n read_v that_o which_o i_o have_v write_v chap._n 21._o pag._n 158._o etc._n etc._n m._n penryes_n judgement_n be_v that_o queen_n elizabeth_n and_o many_o thousand_o in_o england_n be_v unbaptise_v that_o his_o judgement_n be_v such_o i_o prove_v it_o by_o his_o own_o word_n he_o write_v thus_o etc._n etc._n in_o popery_n there_o be_v no_o true_a christ_n whereunto_o man_n may_v be_v ingraff_v etc._n etc._n and_o a_o little_a before_o what_o baptism_n be_v that_o which_o be_v not_o a_o engraff_n into_o the_o true_a christ_n chap._n 23._o pag._n 173._o a_o little_a after_o he_o have_v these_o word_n there_o be_v no_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n chap._n 23._o pag._n 175._o 176._o and_o in_o a_o other_o place_n etc._n etc._n that_o baptism_n be_v not_o out_o of_o the_o church_n if_o m._n penry_n shall_v answer_v that_o it_o be_v baptism_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n yesterday_o but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o either_o to_o day_n or_o to_o morrow_n because_o the_o christ_n profess_v now_o in_o popery_n be_v not_o a_o true_a but_o a_o divided_a christ_n i_o must_v needs_o tell_v he_o that_o christ_n in_o the_o popish_a profession_n be_v divide_v as_o well_o when_o her_o majesty_n etc._n etc._n be_v baptise_a as_o he_o be_v divide_v in_o the_o popish_a profession_n in_o this_o day_n beside_o m._n penry_n write_v that_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v never_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n since_o antichrist_n plant_v his_o pestilent_a chair_n therein_o chap._n 22._o pag._n 165._o to_o conclude_v see_v there_o be_v in_o m._n penryes_n judgement_n no_o church_n no_o baptism_n no_o ministry_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n etc._n etc._n i_o may_v be_v bold_a to_o affirm_v that_o in_o m._n penryes_n judgement_n her_o majesty_n and_o many_o thousand_o more_o be_v unbaptise_v m._n penry_n say_v that_o the_o holy_a supper_n be_v a_o extraordinary_a sacrament_n which_o be_v deliver_v private_o by_o a_o minister_n chap._n 14._o pag._n 139._o this_o error_n be_v condemn_v by_o m._n caluine_n who_o resolution_n be_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o administer_v the_o holy_a supper_n private_o if_o certain_a caution_n be_v
every_o one_o of_o your_o reason_n be_v answer_v a_o peremptory_a resolution_n they_o be_v pin_v be_v like_a on_o your_o sleeve_n i_o hope_v we_o shall_v not_o have_v a_o pythagoras_n of_o you_o will_v you_o have_v your_o boisterous_a speech_n go_v for_o a_o oracle_n and_o carry_v all_o as_o a_o violent_a stream_n before_o it_o god_n forbid_v it_o be_v a_o hard_a case_n i_o trust_v you_o desire_v it_o not_o if_o you_o do_v you_o be_v not_o like_a to_o have_v it_o i._o penry_n in_o this_o point_n there_o be_v also_o another_o want_n which_o i_o will_v have_v be_v redress_v and_o that_o be_v of_o two_o sort_n first_o a_o manifest_a go_v from_o the_o controversy_n for_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o ignorant_a man_n not_o ordain_v of_o god_n for_o the_o gather_v together_o of_o the_o saint_n be_v minister_n or_o no_o you_o leave_v that_o and_o prove_v the_o sacrament_n administer_v by_o they_o viz._n by_o popish_a priest_n &_o our_o dumb_a minister_n in_o the_o day_n of_o blindness_n and_o ignorance_n to_o be_v sacrament_n which_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o matter_n in_o controversy_n but_o a_o other_o point_n to_o be_v discuss_v if_o man_n will_v be_v get_v at_o all_o to_o enter_v thereunto_o when_o the_o former_a be_v determine_v and_o decide_v r._n some_o your_o speech_n be_v very_o idle_a i_o swerve_v not_o one_o jot_n from_o the_o cause_n i_o deal_v in_o for_o proof_n of_o this_o consider_v what_o i_o write_v certain_a in_o london_n give_v out_o in_o my_o hear_n first_o that_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o popish_a priest_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n and_o by_o unpreach_v minister_n in_o our_o church_n receive_v no_o baptism_n second_o that_o the_o godly_a be_v pollute_v which_o receive_v any_o sacrament_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o unpreach_v minister_n to_o heal_v these_o sore_n i_o be_v desire_v to_o provide_v a_o plaster_n i_o do_v so_o and_o god_n have_v give_v a_o good_a blessing_n unto_o it_o all_o this_o time_n your_o book_n be_v as_o great_a a_o stranger_n to_o i_o as_o it_o be_v now_o to_o the_o duke_n of_o medina_n what_o say_v you_o m._n penry_n have_v i_o fault_v as_o you_o imagine_v have_v you_o any_o the_o least_o cause_n so_o rough_o to_o seize_v upon_o i_o and_o to_o charge_v i_o with_o go_v from_o the_o point_n bee_n judge_v yourself_o yea_o i_o refuse_v not_o the_o judgement_n of_o your_o disciple_n if_o they_o have_v any_o dram_n of_o equity_n in_o they_o i._o penry_n second_o your_o reason_n be_v so_o few_o and_o so_o common_o know_v unto_o all_o that_o for_o their_o number_n a_o small_a deal_n of_o paper_n may_v contain_v a_o answer_n unto_o they_o for_o their_o novelty_n they_o can_v not_o put_v a_o man_n that_o have_v according_a unto_o knowledge_n but_o once_o allow_v of_o the_o cause_n to_o any_o great_a labour_n in_o answer_v they_o as_o be_v thing_n so_o common_o object_v by_o all_o learned_a or_o unlearned_a that_o hold_v our_o reader_n to_o be_v minister_n and_o think_v it_o lawful_a to_o communicate_v 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book_n this_o course_n hurt_v you_o and_o not_o i_o it_o hurt_v you_o for_o it_o betray_v your_o humour_n it_o hurt_v not_o i_o for_o your_o tongue_n can_v disgrace_v i_o i._o penry_n the_o last_o want_n i_o find_v in_o you_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o your_o reason_n which_o evident_o show_v the_o insufficiency_n of_o the_o conclusion_n that_o will_v be_v infer_v by_o they_o your_o reason_n be_v all_o of_o they_o faulty_a either_o because_o they_o desire_v that_o for_o grant_v which_o be_v the_o question_n or_o make_v those_o thing_n of_o like_a nature_n wherein_o there_o be_v a_o great_a dissimilitude_n from_o the_o first_o of_o the_o two_o fault_n it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o the_o writing_n of_o reverend_a and_o godly_a man_n as_o of_o augustine_n m._n beza_n etc._n etc._n will_v prove_v that_o which_o the_o word_n of_o the_o eternal_a god_n do_v not_o warrant_n hence_o you_o take_v it_o grant_v that_o popish_a priest_n be_v 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these_o two_o point_n which_o you_o alone_o in_o our_o church_n have_v public_o call_v in_o question_n and_o for_o my_o own_o part_n when_o you_o have_v do_v i_o know_v not_o who_o will_v be_v your_o adversary_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n why_o i_o shall_v deal_v in_o controversy_n of_o so_o small_a gain_n of_o this_o i_o be_o assure_v that_o neither_o popish_a priest_n nor_o any_o other_o ignorant_a guide_n be_v minister_n whether_o the_o element_n administer_v by_o they_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o no_o look_v you_o to_o that_o which_o have_v in_o your_o treatise_n debate_v that_o which_o my_o writing_n never_o call_v into_o question_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o prove_v reader_n to_o be_v minister_n because_o you_o can_v get_v i_o to_o deny_v that_o which_o have_v be_v administer_v to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n you_o shall_v but_o press_v that_o which_o will_v prove_v nothing_o your_o reason_n be_v as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v that_o either_o all_o they_o which_o supply_v the_o place_n of_o 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you_o imagine_v they_o which_o be_v so_o forward_o in_o jangle_v of_o these_o point_n be_v either_o of_o your_o humour_n which_o be_v very_o bad_a or_o anabaptisticall_a recusant_n which_o be_v somewhat_o worse_o you_o add_v these_o word_n a_o strange_a manner_n of_o demonstration_n etc._n etc._n they_o do_v proclaim_v your_o ignorance_n they_o do_v not_o answer_v my_o reason_n i_o perceive_v a_o argument_n ab_fw-la absurdo_fw-la be_v a_o pille_n that_o will_v not_o down_o with_o you_o the_o slendernes_n of_o my_o reason_n be_v repeat_v by_o you_o every_o handwhile_o it_o be_v like_o the_o cuckoo_n song_n it_o please_v you_o again_o to_o reverence_v i_o you_o be_v at_o more_o cost_n than_o i_o will_v have_v you_o this_o reverence_n be_v either_o a_o burden_n or_o a_o benefit_n if_o a_o burden_n lade_v some_o other_o with_o it_o if_o a_o benefit_n beneficium_fw-la non_fw-la datur_fw-la invito_fw-la i_o will_v none_o of_o it_o i._o penry_n now_o i_o can_v well_o overpasse_v these_o two_o point_n because_o of_o themselves_o they_o contain_v nothing_o that_o i_o have_v withstand_v but_o in_o as_o much_o as_o you_o have_v not_o only_o ground_v they_o upon_o false_a principle_n and_o such_o as_o in_o no_o wise_a can_v be_v warrant_v by_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o word_n but_o also_o infer_v upon_o their_o grant_n that_o our_o reader_n be_v minister_n and_o consequent_o that_o it_o be_v no_o sin_n to_o communicate_v with_o they_o i_o be_o first_o to_o set_v down_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n which_o in_o deed_n be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v decide_v between_o you_o and_o i_o concern_v the_o element_n administer_v both_o by_o popish_a priest_n and_o other_o unpreach_a minister_n and_o second_o to_o examine_v the_o ground_n whereby_o you_o prove_v the_o element_n already_o deliver_v by_o they_o to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n which_o you_o know_v i_o do_v not_o deny_v to_o be_v so_o r._n some_o because_o i_o have_v a_o ill_a memory_n you_o tell_v i_o again_o and_o again_o that_o you_o deny_v not_o the_o six_o and_o seven_o proposition_n of_o my_o treatise_n it_o be_v well_o do_v of_o you_o i_o will_v you_o will_v keep_v you_o there_o only_o you_o mislike_v the_o foundation_n i_o build_v on_o and_o some_o consequent_n i_o be_o sorry_a for_o your_o heaviness_n my_o ground_n you_o say_v shall_v be_v examine_v spare_v they_o not_o arraign_v they_o if_o you_o will_n but_o what_o shall_v i_o reason_n of_o or_o look_v for_o at_o your_o hand_n to_o be_v acquit_v no_o hope_n of_o that_o to_o be_v condemn_v it_o be_v certain_a for_o it_o have_v please_v you_o to_o give_v sentence_n before_o examination_n hard_o deal_v but_o i_o must_v abide_v it_o i._o penry_n the_o question_n therefore_o be_v not_o whether_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o of_o they_o have_v deliver_v a_o sacrament_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o action_n do_v but_o whether_o a_o christian_a go_v unto_o they_o for_o those_o holy_a seal_n may_v be_v assure_v that_o he_o can_v receive_v the_o same_o at_o their_o hand_n i_o affirm_v that_o we_o can_v m._n some_o take_v it_o grant_v that_o we_o may_v my_o warrant_n be_v out_o of_o the_o word_n because_o there_o be_v no_o promise_n make_v to_o we_o therein_o that_o the_o action_n celebrate_v by_o such_o man_n be_v a_o sacramental_a action_n and_o where_o there_o be_v no_o promise_n there_o can_v be_v no_o assurance_n because_o our_o assurance_n arise_v only_o of_o faith_n which_o must_v be_v ground_v upon_o the_o promise_n set_v down_o in_o the_o word_n we_o have_v no_o promise_n that_o they_o can_v deliver_v we_o a_o sacrament_n because_o they_o be_v no_o minister_n for_o they_o only_o be_v enjoin_v by_o our_o saviour_n christ_n to_o deliver_v a_o sacrament_n neither_o do_v we_o know_v what_o he_o can_v deliver_v which_o be_v no_o minister_n r._n some_o no_o marvel_n though_o you_o dissent_v from_o i_o conueniet_fw-la nulli_fw-la qui_fw-la secum_fw-la etc._n etc._n you_o be_v at_o war_n with_o yourself_o your_o word_n agree_v like_o 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of_o truth_n dangerous_a for_o it_o will_v breed_v confusion_n the_o magistrate_n thanks_n be_v to_o god_n neither_o do_v nor_o will_v suffer_v this_o bad_a course_n of_o you_o if_o they_o shall_v fancy_n will_v as_o weed_n grow_v too_o too_o fast_o and_o this_o noble_a land_n shall_v receive_v more_o hurt_n than_o your_o head_n be_v worth_a i_o doubt_v not_o of_o their_o godly_a wisdom_n the_o miserable_a estate_n of_o germany_n heretofore_o by_o reason_n of_o sectary_n may_v and_o will_v awake_v they_o if_o you_o be_v restrain_v for_o your_o gross_a error_n as_o some_o other_o be_v very_o just_o you_o may_v not_o cry_v persecution_n persecution_n your_o note_n must_v be_v poena_fw-la perfidiae_fw-la that_o be_v that_o you_o be_v just_o meet_v with_o otherwise_o you_o sing_v
out_o of_o tune_n i._o penry_n so_o that_o the_o question_n be_v now_o grow_v to_o this_o issue_n whether_o popish_a priest_n and_o our_o unpreach_a minister_n be_v minister_n or_o no_o who_o if_o i_o can_v prove_v to_o be_v none_o than_o the_o matter_n be_v clear_a that_o no_o man_n go_v unto_o they_o for_o the_o sacrament_n can_v assure_v himself_o there_o to_o have_v the_o same_o and_o this_o shall_v be_v a_o general_a reason_n equal_o belong_v unto_o both_o the_o point_n handle_v by_o you_o the_o particular_n whereof_o shall_v follow_v in_o their_o place_n r._n some_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o i_o will_v commend_v and_o prefer_v you_o before_o martyr_n bucer_n caluine_n beza_n and_o other_o very_a famous_a man_n and_o church_n yea_o i_o will_v deny_v her_o majesty_n and_o a_o great_a number_n of_o her_o excellent_a subject_n to_o be_v baptize_v which_o i_o be_o sure_o be_v baptize_v the_o mark_v you_o level_v at_o be_v as_o i_o take_v it_o either_o to_o send_v many_o thousand_o to_o the_o font_n again_o or_o to_o make_v they_o guilty_a of_o contempt_n of_o baptism_n one_o of_o these_o two_o must_v needs_o fall_v out_o if_o popish_a priest_n and_o unpreach_v minister_n without_o any_o call_n do_v administer_v a_o sacrament_n you_o may_v level_v and_o level_a again_o at_o this_o mark_n but_o you_o shall_v never_o hit_v it_o the_o bow_n you_o shoot_v in_o be_v too_o strong_a and_o your_o arm_n be_v very_o weak_a beside_o you_o will_v fain_o have_v i_o confess_v that_o either_o popish_a priest_n and_o ignorant_a minister_n be_v lawful_a and_o good_a minister_n of_o god_n or_o that_o no_o sacrament_n be_v or_o be_v deliver_v by_o they_o i_o will_v grant_v you_o neither_o not_o the_o first_o for_o i_o abhor_v that_o defence_n not_o the_o second_o for_o i_o detest_v your_o anabaptisticall_a fancy_n the_o next_o thing_n you_o deal_v in_o be_v that_o neither_o popish_a priest_n nor_o unpreach_v minister_n be_v minister_n in_o which_o treatise_n you_o bewray_v intolerable_a both_o pride_n and_o ignorance_n what_o i_o like_v or_o mislike_v in_o that_o discourse_n appear_v in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o book_n thither_o i_o refer_v you_o i_o will_v now_o set_v down_o that_o part_n of_o my_o treatise_n which_o you_o fight_v against_o chap._n 7._o they_o which_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n by_o popish_a priest_n receive_v true_a baptism_n touch_v the_o substance_n of_o baptism_n r._n some_o the_o popish_a priest_n do_v retain_v the_o essential_a form_n of_o christ_n baptism_n that_o be_v they_o do_v baptize_v in_o the_o name_n not_o of_o pope_n or_o idol_n but_o of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n therefore_o it_o be_v not_o man_n but_o god_n baptism_n which_o be_v deliver_v by_o they_o if_o it_o be_v god_n baptism_n i_o be_o sure_a it_o be_v true_a baptism_n master_n caluin_n call_v they_o catabaptist_n which_o deny_v that_o we_o be_v right_o baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n institut_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 15._o sect._n 16._o i._o penry_n now_o to_o the_o examination_n of_o your_o reason_n bring_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o which_o be_v baptize_v in_o popery_n have_v receive_v true_a baptism_n your_o conclusion_n you_o must_v remember_v i_o do_v not_o deny_v though_o your_o reason_n prove_v not_o the_o same_o which_o be_v thus_o frame_v whosoever_o deliver_v god_n baptism_n they_o deliver_v true_a baptism_n but_o popish_a priest_n deliver_v god_n baptism_n therefore_o true_a baptism_n you_o have_v change_v the_o conclusion_n from_o that_o which_o be_v do_v unto_o that_o which_o be_v do_v but_o this_o oversight_n i_o omit_v the_o assumption_n you_o prove_v thus_o whosoever_o baptize_v in_o the_o name_n not_o of_o pope_n or_o idol_n but_o of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n they_o deliver_v god_n baptism_n but_o popish_a priest_n do_v baptize_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n therefore_o they_o deliver_v god_n baptism_n your_o proposition_n in_o this_o last_o sillogisme_n be_v most_o false_a and_o such_o as_o upon_o the_o grant_n whereof_o not_o only_o the_o communicate_v with_o unpreach_v minister_n may_v be_v advouch_v but_o also_o god_n whole_a ordinance_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o his_o holy_a sacrament_n quite_o overthrow_v for_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o make_v substantial_a baptism_n as_o you_o here_o require_v no_o more_o but_o to_o baptize_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o trinity_n then_o these_o impious_a absurdity_n will_v follow_v thereof_o 1_o that_o a_o amalekite_n may_v deliver_v true_a circumcision_n as_o touch_v the_o substance_n 2_o that_o true_a baptism_n may_v be_v administer_v unto_o a_o substance_n not_o capable_a of_o baptism_n but_o this_o odious_a instance_n i_o will_v not_o urge_v 3._o that_o a_o woman_n 4._o that_o any_o man_n not_o be_v a_o minister_n as_o a_o child_n of_o five_o year_n old_a a_o turk_n or_o jew_n may_v deliver_v true_a baptism_n as_o touch_v the_o substance_n for_o these_o pronounce_v the_o word_n of_o institution_n may_v retain_v by_o your_o reason_n the_o essential_a form_n of_o christ_n baptism_n and_o so_o to_o use_v your_o own_o word_n they_o baptise_v not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o pope_n or_o of_o idol_n but_o of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n shall_v deliver_v god_n baptism_n and_o not_o man_v if_o god_n baptism_n then_o true_a baptism_n i_o be_o sure_a in_o like_a manner_n by_o this_o reason_n they_o shall_v be_v catabaptist_n which_o deny_v man_n to_o be_v right_o baptize_v by_o turk_n or_o woman_n r._n some_o you_o deny_v not_o my_o conclusion_n i_o must_v you_o say_v remember_v it_o you_o have_v sing_v this_o song_n very_o often_o it_o need_v not_o a_o word_n have_v be_v enough_o if_o it_o have_v so_o please_v you_o you_o tell_v i_o you_o will_v omit_v a_o oversight_n of_o i_o you_o deserve_v no_o thanks_n for_o this_o courtesy_n therefore_o i_o will_v give_v you_o none_o but_o what_o i_o beseech_v you_o be_v my_o oversight_n forsooth_o i_o do_v account_n it_o as_o true_a baptism_n which_o be_v administer_v now_o as_o heretofore_o in_o the_o popish_a church_n call_v you_o this_o a_o oversight_n be_v it_o true_a baptism_n yesterday_o and_o be_v it_o none_o to_o day_n a_o marvelous_a case_n this_o be_v like_o those_o absurd_a fellow_n of_o who_o tertullian_n write_v in_o a_o other_o case_n hodie_fw-la presbyter_n quicras_fw-la laicus_fw-la de_fw-fr prescr_n adversus_fw-la haer._n that_o be_v to_o day_n a_o minister_n but_o to_o morrow_n none_o you_o be_v one_o of_o the_o strange_a divine_n that_o ever_o i_o hard_o of_o very_o ignorant_a very_o bold_a very_o absurd_a you_o be_v such_o a_o one_o as_o the_o apostle_n mention_v 1._o tim._n 1.7_o to_o proceed_v my_o reason_n you_o say_v proove_v not_o my_o proposition_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o learned_a man_n it_o do_v if_o not_o in_o you_o the_o matter_n be_v not_o great_a for_o your_o judgement_n be_v not_o worth_a a_o rush_n the_o argument_n i_o make_v be_v in_o deed_n m._n caluines_n &_o a_o very_a sure_a one_o it_o be_v allow_v of_o all_o church_n that_o i_o can_v hear_v of_o it_o please_v you_o to_o set_v down_o my_o reason_n thus_o whosoever_o deliver_v god_n baptism_n they_o deliver_v true_a baptism_n but_o popish_a priest_n deliver_v god_n baptism_n therefore_o true_a baptism_n you_o say_v i_o prove_v my_o minor_n thus_o whosoever_o baptize_v in_o the_o name_n not_o of_o pope_n or_o idol_n but_o of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n they_o deliver_v god_n baptism_n but_o popish_a priest_n etc._n etc._n your_o answer_n be_v that_o my_o mayor_n proposition_n be_v most_o false_a &_o that_o upon_o the_o grant_n of_o it_o many_o absurdity_n will_v follow_v etc._n etc._n your_o deal_n with_o i_o be_v most_o absurd_a it_o shall_v appear_v thus_o my_o minor_a proposition_n set_v down_o by_o you_o be_v popish_a priest_n deliver_v god_n baptism_n you_o say_v i_o prove_v it_o thus_o whosoever_o baptize_v in_o the_o name_n not_o of_o pope_n or_o idol_n but_o of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n they_o deliver_v god_n baptism_n upon_o this_o you_o infer_v many_o consesequents_n at_o your_o pleasure_n viz._n that_o turk_n jew_n woman_n private_a man_n child_n may_v deliver_v true_a baptism_n touch_v the_o substance_n you_o pretend_v great_a sincerity_n answer_v i_o direct_o i_o appeal_v to_o your_o conscience_n if_o you_o have_v any_o do_v i_o ever_o deliver_v such_o a_o mayor_n proposition_n if_o i_o have_v quote_v the_o page_n set_v down_o the_o word_n if_o i_o have_v not_o which_o i_o be_o well_o assure_v of_o you_o have_v gross_o abuse_v i_o you_o may_v as_o easy_o fetch_v oil_n out_o of_o a_o flint_n as_o any_o such_o consequent_n out_o of_o my_o writing_n the_o godly_a reader_n may_v see_v by_o this_o little_a how_o near_o you_o be_v drive_v when_o you_o use_v such_o beggarly_a shift_n
call_n at_o all_o first_o luther_n which_o have_v imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n have_v no_o external_a call_n at_o all_o second_o in_o your_o judgement_n either_o no_o baptism_n be_v deliver_v by_o popish_a priest_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n or_o baptism_n if_o any_o be_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v administer_v by_o private_a man_n for_o they_o which_o have_v no_o call_n at_o all_o be_v private_a man_n i_o need_v not_o drive_v you_o to_o absurd_a consequent_n you_o cast_v yourself_o headlong_o into_o they_o as_o into_o a_o dangerous_a quavemire_n your_o treatise_n wherein_o you_o have_v sow_v gross_a error_n thick_a and_o threefold_a be_v witness_n enough_o of_o this_o be_v not_o your_o disciple_n most_o unhappy_a which_o depend_v on_o you_o as_o on_o another_o pope_n you_o ask_v whether_o there_o be_v a_o ministry_n out_o of_o the_o church_n what_o my_o judgement_n be_v appear_v hereafter_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n you_o deny_v not_o that_o there_o be_v true_a baptism_n therefore_o consequent_o a_o ministry_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n which_o you_o say_v be_v no_o church_n caiphas_n priesthood_n have_v both_o search_v and_o find_v you_o out_o it_o bewray_v your_o gross_a ignorance_n chap._n 8._o they_o be_v the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o holy_a supper_n which_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o unpreach_v minister_n i._o penry_n you_o know_v m._n some_o what_o i_o mean_v by_o a_o unpreach_a minister_n namely_o every_o one_o learned_a or_o unlearned_a that_o can_v show_v himself_o by_o the_o good_a trial_n of_o his_o gift_n to_o have_v that_o fitness_n to_o reach_v whereof_o we_o read_v 2._o tim._n 2._o 1._o tim._n 3._o which_o ability_n the_o lord_n do_v not_o ordinary_o bestow_v upon_o any_o in_o these_o our_o day_n without_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o art_n especial_o the_o two_o handmaid_n of_o all_o learning_n rhetoric_n and_o logic_n and_o the_o two_o original_a tongue_n wherein_o the_o word_n be_v write_v r._n some_o if_o none_o be_v to_o be_v account_v minister_n ordinary_o which_o be_v not_o furnish_v as_o you_o prescribe_v and_o require_v many_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n after_o christ_n ascension_n be_v no_o ordinary_a minister_n valerius_n a_o godly_a man_n who_o augustine_n succeed_v at_o hippo_n in_o africa_n be_v no_o ordinary_a minister_n possid_n in_o vita_fw-la aug._n cap._n 5._o samsucius_n a_o godly_a bishop_n be_v no_o ordinary_a minister_n aug._n epist_n 168._o augustine_n which_o be_v a_o famous_a man_n be_v no_o ordinary_a minister_n many_o profitable_a pastor_n in_o this_o age_n be_v no_o ordinary_a minister_n yea_o m._n penryes_n ignorant_a leviticall_a priest_n who_o he_o allow_v and_o defend_v to_o be_v lawful_a priest_n be_v no_o ordinary_a minister_n if_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n receive_v true_a baptism_n i_o trust_v they_o be_v right_o baptize_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v baptize_v by_o unpreach_v minister_n i._o penry_n the_o rest_n of_o your_o book_n be_v now_o to_o be_v examine_v your_o conclusion_n pag._n 22._o that_o they_o which_o be_v baptize_v by_o unpreach_v minister_n be_v right_o baptize_v as_o touch_v the_o substance_n of_o baptism_n i_o do_v not_o gainsay_v your_o reason_n be_v weak_a for_o how_o can_v we_o prove_v your_o conclusion_n if_o man_n shall_v deny_v popish_a baptism_n to_o be_v true_a baptism_n as_o i_o do_v not_o you_o know_v and_o he_o shall_v do_v i_o great_a injury_n which_o will_v lay_v that_o to_o my_o charge_n be_v it_o sufficient_a for_o we_o to_o say_v they_o be_v catabaptist_n which_o deny_v popish_a baptism_n how_o can_v this_o be_v prove_v and_o this_o shall_v not_o prove_v the_o matter_n doubt_v of_o r._n some_o do_v you_o answer_v of_o this_o fashion_n this_o be_v as_o far_o off_o as_o york_n from_o london_n the_o sum_n of_o your_o answer_n be_v that_o my_o reason_n be_v weak_a &_o that_o you_o deny_v not_o my_o conclusion_n be_v my_o reason_n weak_a because_o you_o say_v so_o if_o they_o be_v like_o your_o senseless_a answer_n they_o be_v strange_a stuff_n if_o you_o deny_v not_o they_o which_o be_v baptize_v by_o unpreach_v minister_n to_o be_v right_o baptize_v it_o be_v a_o necessary_a consequent_a even_o in_o your_o own_o judgement_n first_o that_o either_o unpreach_a minister_n be_v minister_n or_o that_o private_a man_n may_v deliver_v a_o sacrament_n second_o that_o it_o be_v and_o be_v a_o sacrament_n which_o be_v administer_v without_o a_o sermon_n they_o which_o deny_v that_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n receive_v true_a baptism_n touch_v the_o substance_n of_o baptism_n be_v catabaptist_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o learned_a writer_n and_o reform_a church_n i_o rest_v in_o their_o judgement_n r._n some_o if_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o popish_a priest_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n and_o by_o unpreach_v minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n receive_v no_o sacrament_n many_o gross_a absurdity_n will_v follow_v first_o very_o many_o be_v unbaptise_v and_o if_o they_o be_v unbaptise_v they_o sin_v grievous_o in_o not_o present_v themselves_o to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n i._o penry_n shall_v we_o say_v that_o they_o sin_n in_o not_o present_v themselves_o to_o be_v baptize_v to_o who_o shall_v they_o present_v themselves_o who_o will_v baptize_v they_o r._n some_o what_o mean_a scholar_n in_o either_o of_o the_o university_n yea_o what_o russet_a coat_n in_o the_o country_n will_v shape_v such_o a_o answer_n in_o stead_n of_o answer_v my_o reason_n you_o ask_v i_o two_o question_n i_o must_v be_v content_a to_o answer_v there_o be_v no_o remedy_n your_o first_o question_n be_v shall_v we_o say_v that_o they_o sin_n in_o not_o present_v themselves_o to_o be_v baptize_v my_o answer_n be_v they_o do_v sin_n no_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n doubt_n of_o it_o my_o reason_n be_v first_o baptism_n be_v externus_fw-la character_n that_o be_v the_o outward_a mark_n and_o badge_n of_o a_o christian_n so_o write_v that_o famous_a man_n m._n fox_n cap._n 14._o in_o apocal._n second_o the_o contempt_n of_o circumcision_n be_v grievous_o punish_v gen._n 17._o yea_o the_o angel_n will_v have_v kill_v moses_n because_o his_o son_n be_v not_o circumcise_v exod._n 4._o three_o they_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n which_o have_v excellent_a grace_n present_v themselves_o to_o baptism_n which_o baptism_n before_o they_o have_v not_o so_o do_v many_o in_o jerusalem_n after_o peter_n sermon_n act._n 2._o many_o in_o samaria_n after_o philip_n sermon_n act._n 8._o many_o in_o corinth_n after_o paul_n sermon_n act._n 18._o your_o second_o question_n be_v to_o who_o shall_v they_o present_v themselves_o who_o will_v baptize_v they_o my_o answer_n be_v after_o a_o public_a profession_n of_o their_o faith_n in_o the_o christian_n assembly_n they_o must_v present_v themselves_o to_o be_v baptize_v of_o the_o minister_n so_o do_v cornelius_n in_o caesarea_n act._n 10._o lydia_n in_o philippi_n acts._n 16._o crispus_n and_o gaius_n in_o corinth_n act._n 18.1_o cor._n 1._o and_o a_o jew_n of_o late_a year_n in_o london_n i_o speak_v now_o of_o such_o as_o be_v of_o year_n and_o be_v unbaptise_v i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o gather_v of_o this_o that_o i_o shut_v our_o infant_n from_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o baptism_n if_o you_o shall_v you_o deserve_v rather_o to_o be_v censure_v by_o the_o magistrate_n then_o to_o be_v confute_v by_o argument_n r._n some_o if_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o popish_a priest_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n and_o by_o unpreach_v minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n receive_v no_o sacrament_n a_o great_a number_n have_v sin_v gross_o in_o partake_v the_o holy_a supper_n my_o reason_n be_v none_o uncircumcised_a may_v eat_v the_o passeover_n exo._n 12.48_o therefore_o none_o unbaptise_v may_v receive_v the_o holy_a supper_n i._o penry_n admit_v 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to_o deny_v they_o the_o comfort_n of_o baptism_n which_o they_o can_v have_v shall_v they_o deny_v to_o themselves_o the_o comfort_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n which_o they_o may_v have_v yea_o but_o no_o uncircumcised_a may_v eat_v the_o pascal_n lamb_n exod._n 12.48_o true_a but_o what_o shall_v we_o say_v unto_o those_o that_o be_v uncircumcised_a in_o the_o wilderness_n forty_o year_n almost_o jos_n 5.5_o do_v they_o never_o eat_v the_o passover_o all_o that_o time_n if_o they_o do_v the_o place_n of_o exodus_fw-la will_v be_v quick_o answer_v it_o be_v plain_a that_o the_o passover_o be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o wilderness_n once_o at_o the_o least_o nom._n 9.1_o if_o every_o year_n why_o shall_v the_o godly_a of_o the_o family_n be_v exclude_v from_o the_o action_n the_o cause_n why_o they_o be_v uncircumcised_a not_o be_v in_o they_o r._n some_o you_o answer_v very_o strange_o your_o wit_n i_o think_v be_v a_o wool_n gather_v if_o they_o sin_v in_o partake_v the_o lord_n 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penryes_n answer_n be_v contain_v in_o these_o word_n true_a but_o what_o shall_v we_o say_v unto_o those_o that_o be_v uncircumcised_a in_o the_o wilderness_n forty_o year_n almost_o josua_n 5.5_o do_v they_o never_o eat_v the_o passeover_n all_o that_o time_n if_o they_o do_v the_o place_n of_o exodus_fw-la will_v be_v quick_o answer_v it_o be_v plain_a that_o the_o passeover_n be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o wilderness_n once_o at_o the_o least_o number_n 9.1_o if_o every_o year_n why_o shall_v the_o godly_a of_o the_o family_n be_v exclude_v from_o the_o action_n the_o cause_n why_o they_o be_v uncircumcised_a not_o be_v in_o they_o call_v you_o this_o answer_v there_o be_v never_o any_o such_o i_o be_o sure_a in_o cambridge_n or_o oxford_n it_o come_v i_o think_v out_o of_o barbary_n i_o hope_v you_o be_v ashamed_a of_o it_o by_o this_o time_n you_o ask_v i_o whether_o they_o which_o be_v uncircumcised_a in_o the_o wilderness_n almost_o forty_o year_n do_v all_o that_o time_n never_o 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do_v i_o deny_v your_o argument_n my_o reason_n be_v if_o they_o have_v admit_v any_o uncircumcised_a to_o the_o passeover_n they_o have_v profane_v the_o holy_a sacrament_n the_o word_n in_o the_o text_n be_v manifest_a if_o a_o stranger_n dwell_v with_o thou_o and_o will_v observe_v the_o passeover_n of_o the_o lord_n let_v he_o circumcise_v all_o the_o male_n that_o belong_v unto_o he_o and_o then_o let_v he_o come_v and_o observe_v it_o and_o he_o shall_v be_v as_o one_o that_o be_v bear_v in_o the_o land_n for_o no_o uncircumcised_a person_n shall_v eat_v thereof_o one_o law_n shall_v be_v to_o he_o that_o be_v bear_v in_o the_o land_n and_o to_o the_o strange_a that_o dwell_v among_o you_o exod._n 12._o an_o other_o reason_n of_o you_o be_v the_o cause_n why_o the_o israelite_n be_v uncircumcised_a be_v not_o in_o they_o therefore_o the_o godly_a uncircumcised_a of_o the_o family_n may_v not_o be_v bar_v from_o the_o passeover_n i_o answer_v your_o argument_n be_v naught_o and_o very_o saucy_a for_o you_o control_v almighty_a god_n by_o who_o they_o be_v bar_v this_o be_v no_o pride_n m._n penry_n i_o may_v say_v to_o you_o as_o the_o apostle_n in_o another_o case_n o_o man_n who_o be_v thou_o that_o plead_v against_o god_n have_v not_o the_o potter_n power_n of_o the_o clay_n etc._n etc._n rom._n 9_o i_o confess_v that_o the_o israelite_n cease_v from_o circumcision_n in_o the_o wilderness_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o faulty_a in_o omit_v and_o defer_v circumcision_n for_o they_o have_v god_n special_a dispensation_n to_o do_v so_o because_o they_o be_v in_o continual_a travail_n and_o people_n be_v new_o circumcise_v can_v abide_v no_o labour_n for_o the_o sure_a proof_n of_o this_o point_n vidz_fw-fr that_o none_o which_o be_v know_v to_o be_v unbaptise_v may_v either_o present_v themselves_o or_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o holy_a supper_n i_o offer_v these_o reason_n to_o the_o godly_a reader_n first_o baptism_n be_v a_o entrance_n into_o the_o visible_a church_n the_o holy_a supper_n be_v a_o confirmation_n of_o this_o entrance_n second_o they_o which_o be_v of_o year_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v first_o baptize_v and_o afterward_o receive_v the_o holy_a supper_n this_o be_v manifest_a in_o these_o word_n of_o s._n luke_n then_o they_o that_o glad_o receive_v his_o word_n be_v baptize_v and_o the_o same_o day_n there_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n about_o three_o thousand_o soul_n and_o they_o continue_v in_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n and_o fellowship_n and_o break_v of_o bread_n and_o prayer_n etc._n etc._n act._n 2._o by_o break_v of_o bread_n be_v understand_v the_o partake_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n three_o none_o may_v present_v themselves_o to_o the_o holy_a table_n before_o due_a examination_n of_o themselves_o 1._o cor._n 11._o this_o examination_n consist_v of_o faith_n and_o repentance_n which_o faith_n and_o repentance_n be_v not_o in_o they_o which_o either_o witting_o omit_v or_o wilful_o contemn_v the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o baptism_n which_o baptism_n be_v the_o sacrament_n of_o repentance_n matth._n 3._o calu._n inst._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 19_o sect_n 17._o last_o all_o famous_a man_n and_o church_n be_v of_o my_o side_n if_o master_n penry_n dissent_v it_o be_v no_o great_a matter_n his_o writing_n be_v not_o as_o the_o law_n of_o the_o mede_n and_o persian_n etc._n etc._n r._n some_o if_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o popish_a priest_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n and_o by_o unpreach_v minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n receive_v no_o sacrament_n many_o excellent_a man_n have_v usurp_v the_o preacher_n office_n my_o reason_n be_v it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o any_o man_n to_o be_v a_o public_a teacher_n in_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o be_v not_o by_o baptism_n graft_v into_o and_o so_o become_v a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n our_o saviour_n christ_n be_v baptize_v of_o john_n in_o jordane_n before_o he_o preach_v mat._n 3._o and_o 4._o chap._n the_o apostle_n paul_n be_v baptize_v of_o ananias_n in_o damascus_n before_o he_o preach_v act._n 9_o i._o penry_n none_o uncircumcised_a may_v minister_v before_o the_o altar_n true_a but_o do_v none_o of_o the_o levite_n that_o be_v bear_v in_o the_o wilderness_n teach_v jacob_n the_o law_n or_o offer_v the_o incense_n of_o his_o god_n in_o all_o those_o forty_o year_n r._n some_o the_o truth_n i_o perceive_v be_v mighty_a it_o make_v the_o enemy_n many_o time_n to_o confess_v it_o so_o do_v it_o you_o in_o this_o place_n your_o word_n be_v clear_a for_o i_o and_o flat_a against_o yourself_o you_o grant_v that_o none_o uncircumcised_a may_v minister_v before_o the_o altar_n i_o thank_v you_o for_o it_o of_o this_o i_o conclude_v therefore_o none_o unbaptise_v may_v be_v a_o public_a teacher_n in_o the_o visible_a church_n thus_o
you_o see_v by_o the_o way_n which_o may_v not_o be_v forget_v that_o a_o argument_n may_v be_v draw_v from_o the_o leviticall_a priesthood_n to_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o priesthood_n and_o ministry_n be_v not_o twin_n be_v unmatcheable_a and_o can_v stand_v together_o i_o confess_v myself_o great_o bind_v unto_o you_o you_o deal_v very_o liberal_o with_o i_o for_o you_o reach_v i_o argument_n as_o weapon_n to_o smite_v yourself_o withal_o m._n penry_n a_o little_a after_o in_o steed_n of_o answer_v my_o reason_n ask_v a_o question_n after_o his_o usual_a manner_n do_v say_v he_o none_o of_o the_o uncircumcised_a levite_n teach_v jacob_n the_o law_n or_o offer_v incense_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v first_o that_o no_o such_o thing_n appear_v in_o the_o text_n second_o that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o leviticall_a prieft_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n do_v ever_o any_o student_n deal_v so_o childish_o as_o m._n penry_n do_v be_v not_o he_o a_o very_a fit_a man_n to_o censure_v famous_a man_n &_o church_n caluine_n martyr_n beza_n augustine_n etc._n etc._n be_v no_o body_n with_o he_o i_o do_v never_o see_v he_o that_o i_o know_v of_o but_o ex_fw-la unguibus_fw-la leonem_fw-la i_o see_v by_o his_o answer_n what_o a_o deep_a clerk_n he_o be_v i._o penry_n thus_o many_o thing_n you_o see_v may_v be_v object_v against_o your_o reason_n and_o i_o take_v the_o objection_n to_o be_v of_o some_o weight_n it_o have_v be_v well_o you_o have_v consider_v of_o they_o before_o you_o have_v publish_v your_o book_n and_o the_o baptism_n by_o unpreach_v minister_n must_v have_v better_a proof_n than_o any_o you_o have_v bring_v as_o yet_o or_o else_o i_o fear_v i_o our_o posterity_n will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v therewith_o r._n some_o your_o weighty_a objection_n be_v invincible_a in_o your_o eye_n suum_fw-la cuique_fw-la pulchrum_fw-la but_o they_o have_v neither_o suczum_n nor_o sanguinem_fw-la they_o have_v no_o pith_n in_o they_o they_o be_v light_a than_o any_o feather_n and_o bewray_v your_o ignorance_n you_o wish_v i_o have_v consider_v before_o hand_n of_o your_o objection_n satis_fw-la pro_fw-la imperio_fw-la you_o be_v by_o your_o leave_n a_o little_a too_o lordly_a have_v i_o nothing_o to_o think_v of_o but_o of_o your_o absurd_a fancy_n you_o imagine_v very_o base_o of_o i_o my_o argument_n for_o baptism_n by_o unpreach_v minister_n be_v such_o as_o you_o be_v unable_a to_o stir_v for_o proof_n of_o this_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o your_o unscholerlike_o answer_n your_o fear_n that_o the_o posterity_n will_v not_o rest_v in_o my_o reason_n be_v a_o vain_a fear_n etc._n etc._n r._n some_o the_o unpreach_a minister_n do_v add_v the_o word_n unto_o the_o element_n in_o the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n therefore_o it_o be_v the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n which_o be_v deliver_v by_o they_o accedit_fw-la verbum_fw-la ad_fw-la elementum_fw-la &_o fit_a sacramentum_fw-la august_n tract_n 80._o in_o johan._n that_o be_v the_o word_n be_v add_v to_o the_o element_n and_o it_o become_v a_o sacrament_n by_o word_n in_o baptism_n be_v understand_v the_o word_n of_o institution_n which_o be_v to_o baptize_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n etc._n etc._n of_o this_o judgement_n be_v beza_n confess_v cap._n 4._o art_n 47._o and_o musculus_fw-la de_fw-fr sig_n sacram._n art_n 4._o i._o penry_n your_o next_o reason_n page_n 23._o be_v slender_a reader_n pronounce_v the_o word_n of_o institution_n with_o the_o delivery_n of_o the_o element_n therefore_o say_v you_o they_o deliver_v a_o sacrament_n you_o have_v once_o already_o allege_v this_o to_o prove_v popish_a baptism_n page_n 20._o i_o have_v answer_v it_o page_n 29._o 30._o 31._o and_o the_o place_n of_o matth._n 28.19_o bring_v in_o by_o you_o page_n 23._o proove_v your_o consequent_a to_o be_v false_a for_o it_o show_v that_o he_o who_o be_v to_o baptize_v must_v be_v also_o able_a to_o teach_v which_o ability_n be_v want_v in_o our_o reader_n go_v say_v our_o saviour_n and_o teach_v all_o nation_n baptise_v etc._n etc._n therefore_o if_o he_o that_o deliver_v the_o element_n be_v not_o able_a to_o teach_v we_o can_v be_v assure_v that_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n because_o the_o commandment_n be_v not_o general_o to_o all_o that_o can_v pronounce_v the_o word_n of_o institution_n be_v thereunto_o permit_v by_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o time_n but_o particular_o limit_v unto_o they_o that_o can_v teach_v unless_o you_o will_v say_v that_o the_o lord_n bid_v they_o go_v teach_v who_o can_v teach_v which_o be_v not_o once_o to_o be_v conceive_v of_o his_o majesty_n r._n some_o whatsoever_o pass_v from_o i_o be_v slender_a in_o your_o opinion_n all_o that_o you_o deliver_v be_v ex_fw-la tripod_n a_o oracle_n at_o the_o least_o you_o answer_v before_o wise_o &_o like_o yourself_o so_o you_o do_v in_o this_o place_n semper_fw-la idem_fw-la you_o be_v no_o changeling_n you_o deny_v my_o consequent_a and_o do_v add_v for_o your_o reason_n a_o objection_n set_v down_o by_o i_o a_o little_a after_o my_o answer_n to_o that_o objection_n be_v extant_a and_o very_a direct_a i_o rest_v in_o it_o i_o do_v never_o say_v or_o think_v that_o almighty_a god_n do_v either_o command_n or_o allow_v any_o to_o be_v a_o priest_n in_o the_o old_a or_o a_o minister_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o have_v not_o gift_n in_o some_o measure_n it_o please_v you_o to_o write_v in_o your_o treatise_n that_o unfitness_n to_o teach_v make_v not_o a_o nullity_n of_o the_o leviticall_a priest_n office_n if_o you_o mean_v that_o it_o make_v not_o a_o nullity_n before_o god_n you_o conceive_v very_o base_o of_o almighty_a god_n for_o you_o make_v he_o to_o allow_v ignorant_a man_n to_o be_v his_o priest_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n which_o absurd_a course_n will_v have_v bring_v great_a dishonour_n to_o his_o majesty_n and_o great_a hurt_n to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o israelite_n i_o do_v now_o but_o touch_v this_o gross_a and_o blasphemous_a paradox_n of_o you_o and_o with_o the_o dog_n of_o egypt_n do_v as_o it_o be_v sip_v and_o away_o but_o i_o will_v examine_v it_o more_o sure_o hereafter_o that_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v clear_o as_o in_o a_o crystal_n glass_n what_o base_a ware_n you_o commend_v unto_o we_o for_o excellent_a divinity_n i._o penry_n the_o corruption_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o the_o delivery_n of_o the_o element_n shall_v be_v sever_v from_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n be_v a_o breach_n of_o god_n ordinance_n you_o can_v deny_v matth._n 28.19_o act_n 20.7_o and_o therefore_o ungodly_a and_o intolerable_a whether_o it_o make_v the_o action_n frustrate_a or_o no_o that_o be_v not_o the_o question_n r._n some_o you_o mean_v as_o i_o take_v it_o by_o the_o word_n add_v to_o the_o element_n the_o word_n preach_v but_o you_o do_v not_o say_v flat_o here_o though_o you_o have_v a_o little_a before_o that_o the_o want_n of_o a_o sermon_n make_v the_o action_n frustrate_v that_o be_v the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v no_o sacrament_n i_o confess_v that_o paul_n preach_v at_o troas_n in_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a supper_n act._n 20.7_o and_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v teach_v the_o gentile_n before_o they_o baptize_v they_o mat._n 28.19_o but_o no_o learned_a man_n will_v conclude_v of_o this_o that_o a_o sermon_n be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o sacrament_n if_o you_o will_v know_v what_o i_o think_v of_o sound_n preach_v before_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o do_v great_o both_o like_a and_o commend_v it_o yea_o i_o do_v wish_n with_o all_o my_o heart_n that_o all_o the_o church_n in_o england_n have_v able_a teacher_n to_o perform_v that_o duty_n this_o mind_n be_v i_o ever_o of_o since_o i_o know_v what_o god_n religion_n and_o good_a divinity_n mean_v of_o this_o mind_n be_v all_o godly_a and_o learned_a man_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n a_o objection_n of_o the_o fantastical_a sort_n christ_n say_v to_o his_o apostle_n go_v and_o teach_v all_o nation_n baptise_v etc._n etc._n matt._n 28.19_o therefore_o if_o the_o word_n preach_v be_v not_o add_v to_o the_o element_n it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n answer_n the_o argument_n be_v very_o weak_a i_o confess_v that_o christ_n command_v his_o apostle_n first_o to_o teach_v such_o as_o be_v of_o year_n and_o alient_n from_o his_o religion_n and_o then_o to_o baptize_v they_o if_o the_o gentile_n have_v not_o be_v first_o teach_v they_o will_v not_o have_v offer_v themselves_o nor_o the_o apostle_n admit_v they_o to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o baptism_n if_o any_o will_v conclude_v of_o this_o place_n in_o saint_n
ut_fw-la eadem_fw-la prorsus_fw-la à _fw-la nobis_fw-la iudicari_fw-la debeat_fw-la &_o eo_fw-la haberi_fw-la in_o loco_fw-la quo_fw-la aut_fw-la mahumetana_n aut_fw-la judaica_n quae_fw-la christum_fw-la penitus_fw-la repudiant_fw-la &_o ab_fw-la eius_fw-la legibus_fw-la &_o institutis_fw-la abhorrent_n no_o sinulla_fw-la omnino_fw-la extarent_fw-la in_o ea_fw-la veteris_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la vestigia_fw-la daniel_n non_fw-la praedixisset_fw-la futuram_fw-la abominationem_fw-la in_o loco_fw-la sancto_fw-la nequè_fw-fr paulus_n perditum_fw-la illum_fw-la filium_fw-la in_fw-la templo_fw-la dei_fw-la sessurum_fw-la quomodo_fw-la enim_fw-la sederet_fw-la antichristus_fw-la in_o templo_fw-la dei_fw-la si_fw-la nullae_fw-la amplius_fw-la superessent_fw-la illius_fw-la templi_fw-la saltem_fw-la reliquiae_fw-la &_o aliqua_fw-la ruinarum_fw-la vestigia_fw-la aut_fw-la quomodo_fw-la occupare_fw-la abominatio_fw-la lucum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la si_fw-la totus_fw-la adeò_fw-la esset_fw-la profanatus_fw-la ut_fw-la ne_fw-la ullus_fw-la quidem_fw-la vel_fw-la exiguus_fw-la angulus_fw-la pristinae_fw-la sanctitati_fw-la relictus_fw-la esset_fw-la no_o etsi_fw-la praevalet_fw-la ac_fw-la latiùs_fw-la dominari_fw-la videtur_fw-la hominum_fw-la iudicio_fw-la impietatis_fw-la regnum_fw-la et_fw-la christi_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la usqué_fw-fr eo_fw-la oppressa_fw-la ac_fw-la pene_fw-la suffocata_fw-la ut_fw-la vix_fw-la spiritum_fw-la ampliùs_fw-la trahere_fw-la possit_fw-la nondum_fw-la tamen_fw-la penitus_fw-la animam_fw-la exhalait_fw-fr viret_n tract_n de_fw-fr commun_n fid_fw-we cum_fw-la pap._n cer_n pag._n 66._o 67._o the_o sum_n of_o his_o word_n be_v first_o that_o the_o popish_a church_n may_v not_o be_v account_v of_o as_o the_o mahomet_n &_o jewish_a church_n which_o refuse_v christ_n altogether_o second_o that_o if_o no_o print_n of_o god_n church_n remain_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n daniel_n and_o paul_n will_v not_o have_v foretell_v the_o one_o that_o abomination_n shall_v be_v in_o the_o holy_a place_n the_o other_o that_o antichrist_n shall_v sit_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n last_o that_o the_o church_n of_o god_n among_o the_o papist_n though_o it_o be_v almost_o smother_v have_v not_o as_o yet_o give_v up_o the_o ghost_n daneus_n write_v that_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v the_o church_n and_o temple_n of_o god_n not_o simple_o but_o secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la that_o be_v after_o a_o sort_n his_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o popish_a church_n retain_v some_o print_n of_o the_o mark_n and_o badge_n of_o god_n church_n tract_n de_fw-fr ant._n cap._n 17._o m._n fox_n have_v these_o word_n neque_fw-la enim_fw-la romam_fw-la ita_fw-la totam_fw-la etc._n etc._n in_o apoc._n cap._n 13._o pag._n 235._o that_o be_v we_o do_v not_o so_o sever_v rome_n from_o all_o fellowship_n of_o the_o church_n that_o it_o shall_v have_v no_o conjunction_n at_o all_o with_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n if_o m._n penry_n mislike_v my_o first_o reason_n let_v he_o confute_v it_o etc._n etc._n 2_o jeroboam_fw-la do_v set_v up_o calf_n at_o bethel_n and_o dan._n in_o his_o time_n the_o service_n of_o god_n be_v strange_o corrupt_v yet_o certain_a prerogative_n belong_v to_o the_o church_n remain_v then_o among_o the_o jew_n circumcision_n which_o be_v the_o lord_n sacrament_n can_v not_o be_v so_o defile_v by_o the_o unclean_a hand_n of_o the_o jew_n but_o that_o it_o be_v always_o a_o sign_n and_o sacrament_n of_o god_n covenant_n therefore_o god_n call_v the_o infant_n of_o that_o people_n his_o child_n etc._n etc._n in_o the_o popish_a church_n god_n have_v preserve_v baptism_n etc._n etc._n beside_o there_o remain_v among_o they_o other_o remnant_n vidz_n the_o lord_n prayer_n the_o article_n of_o the_o faith_n the_o commandment_n etc._n etc._n lest_o the_o church_n shall_v utter_o perish_v etc._n etc._n last_o almighty_a god_n have_v miraculous_o preserve_v among_o they_o the_o remnant_n of_o his_o people_n though_o poor_o and_o thin_o scatter_v etc._n etc._n of_o this_o m._n caluine_n conclude_v that_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v church_n institut_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 2._o sect_n 11.12_o if_o my_o second_o reason_n take_v out_o of_o m._n caluine_n please_v you_o not_o confute_v that_o part_n of_o m._n caluines_n institution_n 3_o if_o there_o be_v no_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n the_o infant_n of_o papist_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v in_o any_o reform_a church_n though_o some_o of_o the_o religion_n do_v answer_n for_o &_o undertake_v the_o good_a education_n of_o they_o which_o i_o take_v to_o be_v a_o great_a error_n master_n caluine_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o learned_a man_n in_o geneva_n be_v require_v of_o m._n knox_n to_o set_v down_o their_o judgement_n touch_v this_o question_n vidz_n whether_o the_o infant_n of_o idolater_n and_o excommunicate_a person_n may_v be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n etc._n etc._n deliver_v this_o answer_n promissio_fw-la non_fw-la sobolem_fw-la tantum_fw-la cuiusque_fw-la fidelium_fw-la in_o primo_fw-la gradu_fw-la comprehendit_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o mille_fw-la generationes_fw-la extenditur_fw-la vnde_fw-la etiam_fw-la factum_fw-la est_fw-la ut_fw-la pietatis_fw-la interruptio_fw-la quae_fw-la grassata_fw-la est_fw-la in_o papatu_fw-la etc._n etc._n calu._n epist_n 285._o the_o sum_n of_o their_o word_n be_v that_o god_n promise_n do_v not_o only_o comprehend_v the_o posterity_n of_o the_o faithful_a in_o the_o first_o degree_n but_o reach_v unto_o a_o thousand_o generation_n and_o that_o those_o child_n which_o descend_v of_o such_o ancestor_n as_o be_v godly_a many_o year_n ago_o do_v belong_v to_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n though_o their_o parent_n and_o grandfather_n be_v apostate_n etc._n etc._n m._n beza_n write_v thus_o of_o this_o argument_n iniquum_fw-la esset_fw-la papistas_n etc._n etc._n epist_n 10._o the_o sum_n of_o his_o word_n be_v that_o papist_n be_v otherwise_o to_o be_v account_v of_o then_o turk_n because_o popery_n be_v a_o aberration_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n beside_o because_o god_n goodness_n extend_v itself_o to_o a_o thousand_o generation_n that_o it_o be_v a_o hard_a case_n to_o judge_v by_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o late_a parent_n whether_o the_o infant_n pertain_v to_o god_n covenant_n etc._n etc._n thus_o far_o m._n beza_n if_o any_o shall_v reply_v that_o god_n covenant_n have_v no_o place_n at_o all_o among_o the_o papist_n and_o therefore_o that_o their_o infant_n be_v at_o no_o hand_n to_o be_v baptize_v in_o our_o church_n howsoever_o some_o of_o the_o religion_n offer_v they_o in_o the_o assembly_n to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n m._n caluines_n answer_n be_v certum_fw-la est_fw-la adhuc_fw-la illic_fw-la manere_fw-la residuum_fw-la faedus_fw-la dei_fw-la exparte_n quia_fw-la quamuis_fw-la etc._n etc._n cal._n ezec._n 16.20_o that_o be_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o covenant_n be_v there_o on_o god_n behalf_n and_o therefore_o that_o popish_a baptism_n need_v not_o to_o be_v renew_a beside_o that_o satan_n albeit_o he_o reign_v of_o late_a in_o the_o popish_a church_n can_v not_o altogether_o extinguish_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n imò_fw-la illic_fw-la est_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la alioqui_fw-la falsum_fw-la esset_fw-la pauli_n vaticinium_fw-la ubi_fw-la dicit_fw-la antichristum_fw-la sedere_fw-la in_o dei_fw-la templo_fw-la 2._o thes_n 2.4_o that_o be_v a_o church_n be_v there_o otherwise_o paul_n prophecy_n that_o antichrist_n shall_v sit_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n be_v false_a etc._n etc._n if_o it_o shall_v please_v the_o learned_a reader_n to_o read_v m._n caluines_n commentary_n upon_o chap._n 16._o and_o vers_n 20._o of_o ezech._n it_o will_v be_v worth_a his_o labour_n a_o popish_a objection_n of_o the_o absurd_a papist_n and_o of_o master_n penry_n if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o church_n those_o magistrate_n which_o have_v separate_v themselves_o and_o their_o subject_n from_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v schismatic_n etc._n etc._n answer_n our_o magistrate_n people_n etc._n etc._n have_v sever_v themselves_o not_o from_o the_o church_n but_o from_o idolatry_n not_o from_o the_o common_a wealth_n but_o from_o tyranny_n oppress_v the_o common_a wealth_n not_o from_o the_o city_n but_o from_o the_o plague_n which_o pester_v the_o city_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v separation_n be_v not_o from_o any_o truth_n remain_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n nor_o from_o the_o poor_a church_n that_o be_v there_o hold_v under_o captivity_n but_o from_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o popish_a church_n and_o from_o the_o tyranny_n of_o antichrist_n which_o be_v more_o grievous_a than_o the_o yoke_n either_o of_o egypt_n or_o chaldaea_n therefore_o godly_a prince_n &_o people_n can_v just_o be_v call_v schismatic_n thrasibulus_n withdraw_v himself_o to_o phile_n during_o the_o time_n that_o thirty_o tyrant_n do_v tear_v in_o piece_n the_o common_a wealth_n in_o athens_n camillus_n withdraw_v himself_o to_o vey_v during_o the_o time_n that_o the_o gaul_n waste_v the_o city_n of_o rome_n if_o any_o shall_v conclude_v of_o this_o that_o thrasibulus_n and_o camillus_n separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o common_a wealth_n of_o rome_n and_o athens_n and_o not_o from_o the_o tyranny_n under_o which_o the_o athenians_n and_o roman_n then_o be_v he_o reason_v most_o absurd_o etc._n etc._n the_o
they_o receive_v true_a baptism_n the_o argument_n follow_v for_o baptism_n be_v a_o engraff_n into_o the_o true_a christ_n rom._n chap._n 6.3_o the_o antecedent_n be_v manifest_a in_o m._n penries_n judgement_n for_o he_o will_v not_o have_v they_o to_o offer_v themselves_o again_o to_o baptism_n therefore_o he_o be_v either_o a_o catabaptist_n or_o else_o there_o be_v and_o be_v even_o in_o his_o judgement_n true_a baptism_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n 2_o they_o which_o be_v circumcise_v in_o the_o time_n of_o jeroboam_fw-la and_o caiphas_n be_v account_v true_a circumcise_a person_n although_o at_o that_o time_n the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n be_v almost_o altogether_o pervert_v and_o corrupt_v therefore_o such_o as_o be_v and_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n etc._n etc._n this_o argument_n be_v use_v of_o the_o great_a learned_a man_n of_o the_o religion_n and_o be_v allow_v of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n 3_o caluine_n and_o beza_n be_v resolute_a for_o this_o calu._n jon_n chap_n 1._o v._n 16._o ezech_v 16._o v._n 20._o epist_n 103._o and_o 104._o beza_n confess_v chap._n 4._o art_n 49._o and_o chap_n 7._o art_n 11._o epist_n 10._o and_o 81._o viretus_fw-la have_v these_o word_n baptismum_fw-la qui_fw-la à _fw-la sacerdotibus_fw-la papisticis_fw-la collatus_fw-la est_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v we_o do_v allow_v popish_a baptism_n albeit_o we_o condemn_v the_o vain_a and_o superstitious_a ceremony_n which_o be_v use_v in_o it_o tract_n de_fw-fr commun_fw-fr fid_fw-we cum_fw-la papist_n cer_n pag._n 64._o of_o this_o judgement_n be_v all_o learned_a man_n and_o all_o reform_a church_n none_o dissent_n but_o catabaptist_n anabaptist_n m._n penry_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o fantastical_a order_n chap._n 21_o there_o have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v true_a baptism_n out_o of_o the_o church_n the_o donatist_n thought_n otherwise_o in_o augustine_n time_n but_o they_o be_v notable_o confute_v by_o augustine_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr baptis_fw-la contra_fw-la don._n 2_o true_a circumcision_n be_v among_o the_o edomite_n 3_o they_o which_o be_v baptize_v out_o of_o the_o church_n by_o heretic_n neither_o be_v nor_o may_v be_v rebaptise_v therefore_o they_o receive_v true_a baptism_n the_o antecedent_n be_v manifest_a for_o it_o be_v a_o rule_n in_o divinity_n and_o receive_v of_o all_o learned_a man_n baptizati_fw-la ab_fw-la haereticis_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la rebaptizandi_fw-la that_o be_v they_o which_o be_v baptize_v of_o heretic_n be_v not_o to_o be_v rebaptise_v the_o reason_n be_v where_o the_o essential_a form_n of_o baptism_n be_v observe_v non_fw-la haereticus_fw-la sed_fw-la haeretici_fw-la manu_fw-la christus_fw-la baptizat_fw-la that_o be_v not_o the_o heretic_n but_o christ_n do_v baptize_v by_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o heretic_n aug._n passim_fw-la de_fw-mi bapt_v count_v don._n it_o be_v not_o the_o baptism_n of_o heretic_n or_o schismatics_n but_o of_o god_n &_o the_o church_n wheresoever_o it_o be_v find_v and_o whithersoever_o translate_v aug._n the_o bapt_a contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 14._o the_o heresy_n be_v they_o the_o error_n be_v they_o etc._n etc._n but_o baptism_n which_o be_v christ_n must_v not_o be_v account_v they_o aug._n de_fw-fr baptis_fw-la contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 11._o cyprian_n be_v of_o a_o other_o judgement_n in_o the_o church_n of_o carthage_n but_o he_o be_v condemn_v for_o that_o error_n by_o the_o best_a church_n in_o that_o age_n 4._o the_o ark_n of_o the_o testament_n which_o be_v take_v of_o the_o philistines_n lose_v not_o the_o virtue_n of_o sanctification_n 1._o sam._n 4._o dagon_n can_v teach_v we_o that_o 5_o si_fw-la foris_fw-la nemo_fw-la potest_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o no_o man_n can_v have_v any_o thing_n which_o be_v christ_n out_o of_o the_o church_n neither_o can_v any_o man_n have_v any_o thing_n which_o be_v the_o devil_n within_o the_o church_n aug._n the_o bapt_a contr_n don._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o 6_o non_fw-la itaque_fw-la ideo_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o ecclesiae_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v they_o be_v not_o therefore_o not_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o church_n because_o heretic_n and_o wicked_a man_n do_v unlawful_o use_v they_o they_o that_o be_v the_o heretic_n etc._n etc._n be_v to_o be_v amend_v or_o punish_v but_o the_o sacrament_n be_v to_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o reverent_o esteem_v of_o etc._n etc._n question_n how_o do_v heretic_n possess_v baptism_n answer_n baptismum_fw-la legitimum_fw-la habent_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la legitimè_fw-la habent_fw-la that_o be_v heretic_n have_v lawful_a baptism_n but_o they_o have_v it_o not_o lawful_o aug._n de_fw-fr bapt._n cont_n don._n lib._n 5._o cap._n 7._o neque_fw-la licitè_fw-fr foris_fw-la habetur_fw-la &_o tamen_fw-la habetur_fw-la sic_fw-la illicitè_fw-fr for_o be_v datur_fw-la sed_fw-la tamen_fw-la datur_fw-la that_o be_v baptism_n be_v not_o have_v lawful_o out_o of_o the_o church_n notwithstanding_o it_o be_v have_v in_o like_a sort_n it_o be_v give_v out_o of_o the_o church_n unlawful_o notwithstanding_o it_o be_v give_v aug._n de_fw-fr bap._n contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 6._o ca._n 15._o if_o any_o shall_v ask_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o offer_v our_o infant_n to_o baptism_n out_o of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n because_o all_o learned_a man_n except_o the_o donatist_n etc._n etc._n in_o augustine_n time_n and_o m._n penry_n and_o his_o worthy_a disciple_n in_o our_o time_n have_v and_o do_v affirm_v that_o true_a baptism_n have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n my_o answer_n be_v negative_a as_o augustine_n be_v i_o refer_v the_o learned_a reader_n to_o his_o writing_n contra_fw-la cresc_n gram_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 23._o and_o de_fw-mi bapt._n contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 4._o chap._n 22._o i._o penry_n that_o no_o popish_a priest_n be_v a_o minister_n every_o minister_n must_v be_v at_o the_o least_o by_o profession_n a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n no_o popish_a priest_n be_v by_o profession_n a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n therefore_o no_o popish_a priest_n be_v a_o minister_n every_o minister_n have_v a_o office_n within_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n no_o popish_a priest_n have_v a_o office_n within_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o no_o popish_a priest_n be_v a_o minister_n the_o proposition_n or_o first_o part_n of_o both_o these_o reason_n be_v set_v down_o evident_o and_o plain_o by_o the_o wisdom_n of_o god_n in_o these_o word_n for_o as_o we_o have_v many_o member_n in_o one_o body_n and_o all_o member_n have_v not_o one_o office_n so_o we_o be_v many_o be_v one_o body_n in_o christ_n and_o every_o one_o another_o member_n see_v then_o that_o we_o have_v gift_n that_o be_v diverse_a etc._n etc._n the_o place_n show_v clear_o that_o whosoever_o be_v not_o a_o member_n be_v not_o of_o the_o body_n if_o not_o of_o the_o body_n than_o no_o minister_n again_o whosoever_o be_v no_o member_n he_o have_v no_o office_n in_o the_o body_n if_o no_o office_n no_o minister_n he_o that_o shall_v object_v that_o in_o this_o place_n be_v mean_v a_o member_n of_o the_o body_n by_o election_n in_o the_o secret_a counsel_n of_o god_n and_o not_o in_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o the_o church_n by_o profession_n will_v not_o deserve_v the_o answer_n because_o it_o be_v vocation_n and_o not_o election_n that_o make_v such_o a_o member_n in_o the_o church_n as_o may_v have_v a_o office_n therein_o of_o which_o sort_n the_o apostle_n speak_v in_o this_o place_n by_o vocation_n i_o mean_v that_o whereof_o the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v where_o it_o be_v say_v many_o be_v call_v but_o few_o be_v choose_v neither_o can_v any_o man_n deny_v he_o to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n which_o by_o outward_a profession_n submit_v himself_o unto_o true_a religion_n and_o such_o be_v the_o member_n whereof_o the_o apostle_n speak_v namely_o such_o as_o be_v member_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n judas_n be_v a_o member_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n though_o not_o belong_v to_o election_n a_o further_a proof_n of_o the_o proposition_n you_o shall_v find_v 1._o cor._n 12.26.28_o he_o be_v no_o priest_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n that_o be_v not_o a_o jew_n by_o profession_n yea_o and_o of_o the_o line_n of_o aaron_n too_o and_o shall_v he_o be_v account_v a_o minister_n among_o we_o that_o be_v a_o stranger_n from_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o a_o profess_a idolater_n ishmael_n and_o esau_n be_v circumcise_v and_o the_o son_n of_o those_o father_n unto_o who_o the_o covenant_n be_v make_v even_o i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n they_o and_o their_o posterity_n fall_v from_o true_a religion_n well_o admit_v that_o the_o profanation_n of_o circumcision_n have_v still_o continue_v in_o their_o house_n yet_o a_o man_n supply_v
substance_n of_o baptism_n out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o by_o those_o that_o be_v without_o the_o church_n for_o then_o a_o sacrament_n may_v be_v have_v out_o of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v very_o impious_a and_o absurd_a to_o be_v affirm_v but_o popery_n be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o be_v all_o popish_a priest_n therefore_o no_o man_n can_v assure_v himself_o to_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o baptism_n in_o popery_n by_o any_o popish_a priest_n r._n some_o before_o that_o i_o deny_v any_o part_n of_o your_o reason_n i_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o i_o have_v prove_v already_o that_o true_a baptism_n have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n cyprian_a thought_n otherwise_o and_o therefore_o will_v have_v such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o excommunicate_v heretic_n to_o be_v rebaptise_v but_o he_o be_v and_o be_v condemn_v for_o that_o error_n by_o ancient_a &_o late_a writer_n you_o give_v out_o very_o peremptory_o that_o it_o be_v very_o impious_a and_o absurd_a to_o affirm_v that_o baptism_n either_o have_v be_v or_o may_v be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n so_o do_v the_o donatist_n in_o augustine_n time_n it_o be_v no_o great_a matter_n what_o you_o say_v your_o bolt_n be_v soon_o shoot_v your_o water_n be_v very_o shallow_a many_o point_n which_o you_o condemn_v in_o your_o consistory_n for_o gross_a absurdity_n be_v manifest_a truth_n in_o the_o sound_a judgement_n of_o all_o reform_a church_n so_o be_v this_o present_a particular_a touch_v your_o argument_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n my_o reason_n be_v the_o popish_a church_n be_v a_o church_n though_o a_o unsound_a church_n and_o popish_a priest_n have_v a_o calling_n though_o a_o faulty_a one_o for_o proof_n of_o this_o i_o refer_v you_o to_o that_o which_o i_o have_v write_v before_o in_o this_o treatise_n if_o you_o like_v not_o my_o reason_n confute_v they_o i._o penry_n that_o there_o be_v no_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n and_o that_o all_o popish_a priest_n be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n beside_o the_o former_a reason_n this_o one_o do_v further_a show_n if_o there_o be_v a_o church_n in_o popery_n or_o if_o all_o popish_a priest_n be_v not_o out_o of_o the_o church_n than_o those_o magistrate_n that_o have_v separate_v themselves_o and_o their_o subject_n and_o all_o other_o that_o make_v this_o separation_n from_o the_o romish_a religion_n as_o from_o that_o synagogue_n where_o salvation_n be_v not_o to_o be_v have_v and_o consequent_o where_o there_o be_v no_o church_n be_v schismatics_n to_o speak_v the_o least_o because_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n to_o make_v this_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n detest_v the_o corruption_n thereof_o we_o may_v but_o make_v such_o a_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n we_o ought_v not_o unless_o we_o will_v be_v account_v schismatik_n but_o those_o magistrate_n and_o their_o people_n that_o make_v this_o separation_n be_v not_o schismatickes_n because_o in_o popery_n the_o foundation_n be_v overthrow_v you_o say_v in_o your_o book_n m._n some_o page_v 33._o that_o you_o can_v press_v the_o argument_n of_o the_o magistracy_n against_o i_o very_o far_o whether_o you_o may_v or_o no_o that_o shall_v be_v consider_v when_o i_o deal_v with_o the_o point_n but_o this_o i_o be_o assure_v of_o that_o in_o this_o point_n you_o shall_v be_v drive_v either_o to_o defend_v the_o absurdity_n that_o baptism_n be_v to_o be_v have_v out_o of_o the_o church_n in_o a_o company_n estrange_v from_o christ_n which_o i_o think_v you_o will_v not_o do_v or_o urge_v so_o far_o as_o to_o the_o plain_a breach_n of_o a_o statute_n which_o far_o be_v it_o from_o i_o even_o in_o the_o cause_n of_o treason_n will_v you_o say_v that_o baptism_n may_v be_v have_v out_o of_o the_o church_n the_o assertion_n be_v absurd_a or_o will_v you_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n in_o popery_n the_o assertion_n be_v dangerous_a and_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o false_a it_o be_v dangerous_a because_o it_o affirm_v our_o magistrate_n to_o be_v schismatic_o inasmuch_o as_o they_o have_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o church_n i_o hope_v rather_o than_o you_o will_v fall_v into_o either_o of_o these_o point_n that_o you_o will_v grant_v i_o the_o cause_n r._n some_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o several_a point_n very_o brief_o the_o reason_n which_o you_o use_v to_o prove_v there_o be_v no_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n be_v this_o viz._n if_o there_o be_v a_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n the_o magistrate_n and_o people_n which_o be_v of_o the_o religion_n be_v schismatics_n at_o the_o least_o my_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o be_v a_o popish_a argument_n i_o have_v answer_v it_o before_o and_o do_v rest_n in_o that_o answer_n if_o either_o you_o or_o any_o of_o the_o popish_a sort_n mislike_v my_o answer_n you_o may_v confute_v it_o beside_o if_o there_o be_v no_o church_n at_o all_o in_o popery_n as_o you_o affirm_v why_o shall_v the_o church_n of_o england_n germany_n demmarke_n which_o be_v sometime_o popish_a be_v call_v reform_a church_n the_o very_a name_n of_o reform_a church_n do_v manifest_o import_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n germany_n denmark_n etc._n etc._n though_o popish_a and_o unsound_a be_v church_n in_o some_o sort_n before_o the_o reformation_n if_o you_o think_v that_o all_o the_o popish_a sort_n which_o die_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n over_o damn_a you_o think_v absurd_o for_o you_o dissent_v from_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o learned_a protestant_n and_o do_v presume_v to_o sit_v in_o god_n chair_n which_o be_v intolerable_a sauciness_n to_o say_v or_o write_v that_o true_a baptism_n have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n be_v a_o true_a proposition_n in_o divinity_n augustine_n do_v maintain_v it_o against_o the_o donatist_n the_o most_o famous_a man_n &_o church_n in_o our_o time_n be_v of_o that_o judgement_n i_o rest_v in_o that_o with_o all_o my_o heart_n you_o account_v it_o a_o absurd_a proposition_n the_o best_a be_v you_o be_v not_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n as_o peter_n lombard_n be_v if_o you_o be_v which_o god_n defend_v the_o sound_n divinity_n which_o be_v teach_v in_o cambridge_n and_o oxford_n shall_v be_v cry_v down_o and_o your_o strange_a fancy_n shall_v be_v rule_v case_n the_o argument_n of_o the_o magistracy_n be_v touch_v before_o i_o perceive_v it_o have_v move_v you_o a_o little_a for_o you_o draw_v out_o a_o statute_n of_o treason_n etc._n etc._n what_o i_o beseech_v you_o good_a sir_n no_o less_o than_o treason_n you_o be_v a_o charitable_a man_n i_o have_v do_v and_o will_v perform_v all_o duty_n by_o god_n grace_n to_o the_o religion_n and_o my_o gracious_a prince_n so_o long_o as_o i_o live_v therefore_o treason_n statute_n can_v take_v no_o hold_n of_o i_o yea_o the_o refutation_n of_o your_o blasphemous_a anabaptisticall_a popish_a and_o proud_a error_n by_o i_o be_v i_o be_o sure_a a_o performance_n of_o a_o special_a duty_n to_o almighty_a god_n my_o prince_n and_o this_o church_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o blessing_n which_o god_n have_v give_v already_o to_o my_o last_o treatise_n and_o which_o his_o majesty_n will_v give_v to_o this_o will_v mar_v your_o market_n great_a word_n shall_v not_o fray_v i_o etc._n etc._n if_o your_o ignorant_a disciple_n will_v still_o magnify_v you_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o they_o do_v but_o their_o kind_n such_o as_o be_v learned_a &_o wise_a have_v &_o do_v find_v you_o out_o cognoscitur_fw-la quis_fw-la sit_fw-la ut_fw-la ut_fw-la laudetur_fw-la coruus_fw-la the_o most_o famous_a orator_n that_o ever_o be_v in_o rome_n and_o athens_n can_v not_o make_v the_o raven_n to_o be_v no_o raven_n tertullus_n commend_v felix_n act._n 24._o but_o felix_n be_v a_o absurd_a body_n and_o strip_v of_o his_o office_n by_o claudius_n caesar_n the_o samaritan_o commend_v simon_n magus_n act._n 8_o libanius_n the_o sophister_n commend_v julian_n the_o apostate_n socr._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 22._o eunomius_n commend_v aetius_n which_o be_v a_o pestilent_a heretic_n theodor._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 29._o you_o have_v protest_v many_o time_n in_o your_o treatise_n that_o you_o reverence_v i_o but_o here_o you_o offer_v i_o this_o choice_n either_o to_o defend_v that_o which_o be_v in_o your_o judgement_n a_o absurdity_n but_o in_o deed_n be_v none_o or_o to_o incur_v the_o danger_n of_o treason_n etc._n etc._n do_v you_o think_v that_o i_o have_v any_o the_o least_o cause_n to_o believe_v your_o glorious_a protestation_n joab_n pretend_v extraordinary_a good_a will_n to_o abner_n and_o amasa_n but_o he_o kill_v they_o 2._o sam._n 3._o and_o 20._o chap._n ishmael_n pretend_v extraordinary_a good_a will_n to_o they_o of_o sichem_n silo_n samaria_n the_o beast_n shed_v tear_n but_o they_o be_v crocodile_n tear_n for_o