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reason_n apostle_n ghost_n holy_a 2,984 5 4.9985 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A08426 A true report of the disputation or rather priuate conference had in the Tower of London, with Ed. Campion Iesuite, the last of August. 1581. Set downe by the reuerend learned men them selues that dealt therein. VVhereunto is ioyned also a true report of the other three dayes conferences had there with the same Iesuite. Which nowe are thought meete to be published in print by authoritie Nowell, Alexander, 1507?-1602.; Day, William, 1529-1596. aut; Fielde, John, d. 1588.; Fulke, William, 1538-1589. aut; Goad, Roger, 1538-1610. aut; Campion, Edmund, Saint, 1540-1581. aut; Walker, John, d. 1588. aut; Charke, William, d. 1617. aut 1583 (1583) STC 18744; ESTC S113389 169,017 230

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example_n of_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o man_n be_v the_o image_n of_o god_n for_o it_o be_v not_o equal_a with_o christ_n nor_o like_v unto_o he_o either_o concern_v his_o humanity_n or_o deity_n but_o a_o mere_a insensible_a thing_n as_o that_o which_o have_v no_o power_n of_o life_n whereas_o christ_n be_v all_o sensible_a all_o of_o power_n all_o incomprehensible_a concern_v his_o godhead_n campion_n reply_v against_o my_o answer_n if_o you_o can_v the_o exterior_a form_n or_o colour_n which_o we_o see_v be_v that_o which_o he_o say_v to_o be_v insensible_a fulke_n he_o speak_v not_o of_o colour_n he_o speak_v of_o that_o which_o christ_n call_v his_o body_n be_v the_o exterior_a form_n call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v the_o colour_n of_o bread_n the_o image_n of_o christ_n epiphanius_n say_v that_o of_o which_o christ_n say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v void_a of_o sense_n therefore_o he_o say_v the_o whole_a sacrament_n or_o whatsoever_o be_v contain_v in_o it_o be_v insensible_a campion_n that_o be_v christ_n be_v not_o see_v but_o under_o the_o exterior_a form_n or_o colour_n for_o no_o substance_n can_v be_v see_v be_v not_o you_o doctor_n fulke_n and_o yet_o i_o see_v nothing_o but_o your_o colour_n and_o exterior_a form_n i_o will_v abide_v by_o this_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o any_o thing_n can_v not_o be_v see_v fulke_n i_o will_v not_o vouchsafe_v to_o reply_v upon_o this_o answer_n too_o childish_a for_o a_o sophister_n camp_n you_o be_v very_o imperious_a you_o come_v i_o trow_v to_o pose_v i_o as_o a_o grammar_n scholar_n and_o to_o take_v i_o up_o with_o check_n at_o your_o pleasure_n i_o know_v no_o cause_n why_o i_o shall_v take_v it_o at_o your_o hand_n i_o be_o the_o queen_n prisoner_n and_o not_o you_o fulke_n i_o will_v you_o be_v the_o queen_n true_a subject_n goad_n whatsoever_o be_v natural_o present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v beneath_o upon_o earth_n argument_n but_o christ_n touch_v his_o body_n be_v not_o beneath_o upon_o earth_n ergo_fw-la christ_n touch_v his_o body_n be_v not_o natural_o present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n campion_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_a goad_n christ_n touch_v his_o bodily_a presence_n be_v in_o heaven_n and_o only_o in_o heaven_n therefore_o not_o upon_o earth_n campion_n i_o deny_v your_o antecedent_n it_o be_v partly_o true_a and_o partly_o false_a ordinary_o he_o be_v in_o heaven_n but_o miraculous_o his_o body_n also_o be_v in_o earth_n goad_n i_o will_v ease_v you_o of_o your_o distinction_n christ_n be_v no_o way_n present_v on_o earth_n touch_v his_o body_n therefore_o neither_o ordinary_o nor_o yet_o miraculous_o answer_v to_o the_o argument_n brief_o campion_n as_o brief_a as_o you_o wil._n he_o be_v some_o way_n present_a upon_o earth_n touch_v his_o body_n prove_v your_o antecedent_n goad_n i_o prove_v it_o thus_o if_o christ_n touch_v his_o bodily_a presence_n be_v any_o way_n present_a upon_o earth_n than_o he_o be_v to_o be_v seek_v upon_o earth_n but_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v seek_v upon_o earth_n ergo_fw-la no_o way_n present_a upon_o earth_n campion_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n he_o be_v some_o way_n to_o be_v seek_v upon_o earth_n in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o not_o by_o his_o ordinary_a presence_n goad_n my_o argument_n be_v against_o all_o distinction_n campion_n will_v you_o not_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o distinguish_v goad_n i_o say_v he_o be_v no_o way_n bodily_a present_n on_o earth_n which_o utter_o take_v away_o your_o distinction_n and_o i_o prove_v it_o by_o the_o apostle_n reason_n colos._n 3._o 1._o si_fw-mi consurrexistis_fw-la cum_fw-la christo._n etc._n etc._n if_o you_o be_v rise_v together_o with_o christ_n seek_v those_o thing_n that_o be_v
above_o where_o christ_n sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n set_v your_o affection_n on_o heavenly_a thing_n and_o not_o upon_o earthly_a thing_n the_o apostle_n exhort_v we_o to_o seek_v thing_n above_o because_o christ_n be_v in_o heaven_n touch_v his_o body_n sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n if_o he_o be_v beneath_o on_o earth_n bodily_a any_o way_n than_o the_o apostle_n reason_n be_v nothing_o campion_n the_o apostle_n meaning_n be_v that_o christ_n be_v not_o to_o be_v seek_v for_o now_o in_o that_o sort_n as_o when_o he_o walk_v upon_o earth_n goad_n this_o answer_n be_v take_v away_o before_o the_o apostle_n true_a meaning_n be_v to_o draw_v they_o from_o man_n tradition_n and_o earthly_a ceremony_n by_o this_o reason_n because_o christ_n be_v not_o beneath_o on_o earth_n touch_v his_o body_n campion_n he_o mean_v of_o all_o earthly_a thing_n and_o not_o of_o ceremony_n goad_n that_o be_v but_o your_o conjecture_n of_o ignorance_n or_o forgetfulness_n of_o the_o apostle_n argument_n in_o the_o former_a chapter_n next_o go_v before_o camp_n be_v not_o christ_n to_o be_v seek_v upon_o earth_n when_o i_o look_v into_o my_o bible_n do_v i_o not_o seek_v christ_n goad_n i_o think_v you_o do_v not_o true_o seek_v he_o camp_n do_v you_o goad_n i_o will_v not_o answer_v your_o word_n answer_v you_o my_o argument_n you_o will_v go_v from_o the_o matter_n camp_n your_o argument_n be_v nothing_o if_o christ_n be_v in_o heaven_n i_o must_v not_o seek_v he_o in_o earth_n goad_n it_o be_v the_o argument_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o may_v thus_o be_v frame_v our_o affection_n must_v there_o be_v set_v where_o christ_n be_v touch_v his_o body_n but_o christ_n be_v in_o heaven_n alone_o touch_v his_o body_n where_o he_o sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n therefore_o our_o affection_n must_v be_v in_o heaven_n camp_n what_o be_v it_o to_o seek_v christ_n above_o must_v i_o fly_v up_o into_o heaven_n it_o be_v our_o affection_n and_o cogitation_n that_o must_v be_v lift_v up_o goad_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o argument_n you_o answer_v not_o the_o apostle_n reason_n be_v frame_v into_o a_o syllogism_n our_o affection_n must_v be_v where_o christ_n be_v touch_v his_o body_n but_o he_o be_v in_o heaven_n in_o his_o body_n at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n ergo_fw-la there_o to_o be_v seek_v and_o not_o upon_o earth_n if_o christ_n be_v any_o way_n upon_o earth_n the_o apostle_n argument_n hold_v not_o but_o contrariwise_o by_o the_o apostle_n reason_n earthly_a thing_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v if_o christ_n be_v any_o way_n upon_o earth_n touch_v his_o body_n camp_n i_o must_v not_o now_o seek_v christ_n in_o conversation_n in_o jerusalem_n to_o seek_v he_o in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o to_o seek_v he_o in_o earth_n goad_n but_o if_o he_o be_v on_o earth_n in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o you_o say_v bodily_a than_o he_o may_v be_v seek_v upon_o earth_n yea_o and_o earthly_a thing_n also_o which_o the_o apostle_n deni_v there_o be_v a_o manifest_a opposition_n in_o the_o apostle_n word_n between_o above_o and_o beneath_o in_o heaven_n and_o in_o earth_n you_o may_v not_o confound_v these_o we_o must_v ascend_v thither_o where_o christ_n be_v but_o he_o be_v above_o in_o heaven_n therefore_o in_o mind_n we_o must_v ascend_v into_o heaven_n campion_n the_o drift_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v we_o must_v ascend_v with_o christ_n we_o must_v die_v with_o christ_n in_o affection_n and_o spiritual_o goad_n you_o never_o answer_v direct_o to_o the_o argument_n it_o 〈◊〉_d contrary_a to_o the_o apostle_n plain_a word_n and_o against_o the_o scope_n of_o his_o exhortation_n that_o we_o shall_v seek_v christ_n beneath_o as_o any_o way_n bodily_a present_n on_o earth_n camp_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o according_a to_o his_o ordinary_a presence_n he_o be_v above_o but_o according_a to_o miracle_n he_o be_v bodily_a upon_o earth_n beneath_o goad_n now_o you_o fly_v again_o to_o miracle_n but_o this_o shift_n be_v take_v away_o before_o for_o if_o christ_n be_v any_o way_n bodily_a present_n on_o earth_n though_o it_o be_v by_o miracle_n than_o he_o be_v to_o be_v seek_v on_o earth_n which_o the_o apostle_n deni_v you_o hear_v his_o answer_n this_o stone_n have_v be_v roll_v enough_o fulke_n if_o christ_n be_v present_a in_o his_o natural_a body_n he_o be_v present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n argument_n but_o he_o be_v not_o present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v not_o present_a in_o his_o natural_a campion_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_a he_o be_v present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n fulke_n if_o he_o be_v present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n then_o wheresoever_o the_o sacrament_n be_v there_o be_v his_o true_a body_n but_o wheresoever_o the_o sacrament_n be_v there_o be_v not_o his_o true_a body_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v not_o present_a in_o his_o true_a body_n campion_n prove_v your_o minor_a wheresoever_o the_o sacrament_n be_v there_o be_v his_o true_a body_n fulke_n chrysostome_n deni_v it_o in_o cap._n 5._o math._n homilia_fw-la 12._o operis_fw-la imperfecti_fw-la sin_n vasa_fw-la sanctificata_fw-la ad_fw-la privatos_fw-la usus_fw-la transfer_v peccatum_fw-la est_fw-la &_o periculum_fw-la sicut_fw-la docet_fw-la nos_fw-la balthasar_n qui_fw-la bibens_fw-la in_o calicibus_fw-la sacratis_fw-la de_fw-la regno_fw-la depositus_fw-la &_o de_fw-la vita_fw-la si_fw-mi ergo_fw-la haec_fw-la vasa_fw-la sanctificata_fw-la in_o privatos_fw-la usus_fw-la transfer_v periculosum_fw-la est_fw-la in_fw-la quibus_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la verum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la sed_fw-la misterium_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la continetur_fw-la quanto_fw-la magis_fw-la vasa_fw-la corporis_fw-la nostri_fw-la quae_fw-la sibi_fw-la deus_fw-la ad_fw-la habitaculum_fw-la preparavit_fw-la non_fw-la debemus_fw-la locum_fw-la dare_v diabolo_fw-la agendi_fw-la in_o eye_n quae_fw-la vult_fw-la here_o you_o see_v chrysostome_n do_v plain_o deny_v the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v present_a in_o the_o holy_a vessel_n in_o the_o which_o the_o mystery_n or_o sacrament_n thereof_o be_v contain_v campion_n of_o all_o other_o doctor_n he_o make_v most_o against_o you_o fulke_n he_o make_v nothing_o against_o we_o for_o this_o question_n in_o any_o place_n of_o his_o work_n but_o how_o answer_v you_o unto_o this_o place_n camp_n i_o say_v where_o the_o natural_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v present_a there_o be_v his_o true_a body_n present_a fulke_n but_o this_o doctor_n say_v clean_o contrary_a that_o in_o the_o holy_a vessel_n be_v contain_v the_o mystery_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o not_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ._n camp_n he_o speak_v of_o balthasars_n vessel_n fulke_n although_o he_o bring_v balthasars_n example_n of_o abuse_v the_o holy_a vessel_n of_o the_o jew_n to_o show_v how_o dangerous_a it_o be_v to_o convert_v holy_a thing_n to_o private_a use_n yet_o he_o speak_v express_o of_o the_o holy_a vessel_n of_o the_o christian_n wherein_o be_v the_o mystery_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n camp_n the_o chalice_n may_v be_v abuse_v after_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v take_v out_o of_o it_o and_o that_o be_v a_o great_a fault_n to_o abuse_v it_o when_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o it_o fulke_n then_o he_o shall_v say_v in_o quibus_fw-la non_fw-la erat_fw-la but_o he_o say_v in_o quibus_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la in_o which_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o campion_n he_o talk_v of_o all_o holy_a vessel_n not_o only_o of_o the_o chalice_n fulke_n i_o grant_v he_o reason_v from_o the_o less_o to_o the_o more_o if_o it_o be_v dangerous_a to_o abuse_v all_o holy_a vessel_n namely_o those_o in_o which_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o but_o the_o mystery_n thereof_o how_o much_o more_o perilous_a be_v it_o to_o abuse_v the_o vessel_n of_o our_o body_n wherein_o god_n dwell_v campion_n do_v he_o say_v that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o the_o chalice_n fulke_n he_o say_v it_o be_v in_o none_o of_o the_o vessel_n but_o the_o chalice_n be_v a_o vessel_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o chalice_n campion_n may_v not_o the_o holy_a vessel_n be_v abuse_v after_o mass_n be_v do_v and_o so_o he_o mean_v that_o though_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o they_o when_o they_o be_v abuse_v yet_o it_o be_v a_o heinous_a fault_n to_o abuse_v they_o when_o the_o sacrament_n be_v take_v out_o fulke_n his_o word_n be_v plain_a that_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o they_o but_o the_o mystery_n or_o sacrament_n thereof_o understande_v for_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n and_o danger_n to_o transfer_v the_o sanctify_a vessel_n unto_o private_a use_n as_o balthasar_n do_v teach_v we_o which_o drink_v in_o the_o hallow_a cup_n be_v depose_v from_o his_o kingdom_n and_o from_o his_o life_n therefore_o if_o it_o be_v so_o dangerous_a to_o transfer_v
rom._n chap._n 3._o verse_n 20._o chap._n 4._o verse_n 13._o eph._n 2._o ver_fw-la 8._o and_o verse_n 9_o 2._o tim._n 1._o 9_o tit._n 3._o 5._o beside_o some_o other_o camp_n i_o do_v but_o request_v that_o i_o may_v answer_v they_o several_o for_o not_o one_o of_o they_o prove_v your_o assertion_n charke_n if_o you_o answer_v any_o of_o they_o i_o will_v subscribe_v to_o your_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n tush_o camp_n you_o may_v not_o think_v to_o face_n out_o the_o matter_n with_o these_o bare_a word_n dare_v you_o say_v our_o justification_n be_v partly_o of_o work_n when_o the_o holy_a ghost_n say_v so_o often_o plain_o and_o exclusive_o not_o of_o work_n without_o work_n not_o of_o the_o law_n but_o without_o the_o law_n herein_o i_o challenge_v you_o that_o make_v challenge_v against_o the_o truth_n &_o will_v prove_v that_o this_o weighty_a and_o great_a cause_n which_o may_v worthy_o be_v call_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o church_n be_v direct_o and_o plain_o set_v down_o in_o all_o these_o place_n deny_v it_o if_o you_o can_v camp_n bring_v one_o of_o the_o eleven_o place_n charke_n what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o apostle_n conclusion_n rom._n 3._o verse_n 20_o therefore_o by_o the_o deed_n of_o the_o law_n no_o flesh_n shall_v be_v justify_v camp_n will_v you_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o answer_v and_o to_o speak_v somewhat_o general_o to_o this_o charke_n you_o have_v a_o particular_a place_n make_v a_o particular_a answer_n plain_o and_o to_o the_o issue_n rove_v not_o in_o general_a discourse_n that_o come_v not_o near_o the_o mark_n camp_n the_o meaning_n of_o saint_n paul_n in_o such_o place_n be_v to_o exclude_v the_o jew_n ceremony_n for_o the_o jew_n assever_v the_o observation_n of_o the_o law_n the_o keep_n of_o their_o sacrifice_n and_o ceremony_n as_o circumcision_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n s._n paul_n inform_v the_o gentile_n that_o these_o thing_n be_v not_o so_o necessary_a but_o faith_n be_v sufficient_a this_o he_o urge_v throughout_o the_o scripture_n only_o so_o that_o faith_n be_v urge_v but_o not_o faith_n only_o again_o by_o faith_n be_v mean_v all_o christianity_n and_o the_o whole_a religion_n of_o christian_n which_o be_v sufficient_a without_o any_o parcel_n of_o the_o jew_n religion_n this_o be_v one_o general_a consideration_n why_o paul_n so_o often_o urge_v faith_n throughout_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o roman_n and_o else_o where_o another_o general_a consideration_n be_v for_o that_o the_o wise_a man_n of_o the_o gentile_n do_v allege_v their_o morality_n as_o a_o cause_n of_o their_o election_n which_o paul_n in_o the_o same_o epistle_n stand_v special_o upon_o and_o mean_v to_o confute_v as_o be_v afore_o say_v charke_n whether_o of_o these_o two_o interpretation_n you_o will_v allow_v it_o follow_v by_o your_o own_o exposition_n that_o the_o apostle_n conclude_v for_o faith_n against_o work_n conclude_v that_o it_o be_v faith_n only_o that_o justifi_v shut_v out_o all_o such_o work_n as_o be_v oppose_v unto_o it_o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o the_o work_v opposite_a to_o faith_n be_v only_o either_o the_o moral_a work_n of_o the_o gentile_n or_o the_o ceremonial_a of_o the_o jew_n i_o will_v easy_o overthrow_v the_o distinction_n camp_n overthrow_n it_o then_o charke_n first_o there_o be_v never_o any_o such_o error_n maintain_v in_o the_o church_n that_o the_o moral_a work_n of_o the_o gentile_n shall_v justify_v therefore_o paul_n never_o labour_v so_o much_o and_o so_o often_o to_o confute_v that_o error_n which_o do_v not_o trouble_v the_o church_n as_o for_o the_o ceremonial_a work_n the_o apostle_n write_v to_o the_o ephesian_n not_o justify_v with_o the_o observation_n of_o jewish_a ceremony_n have_v no_o cause_n to_o bar_v ceremonial_a work_n from_o justification_n therefore_o he_o teach_v that_o all_o the_o work_n of_o the_o faithful_a even_o of_o abraham_n be_v exclude_v from_o be_v cause_n of_o justification_n and_o not_o ceremony_n only_o or_o the_o morality_n of_o heathen_a man_n as_o you_o imagine_v against_o the_o apostle_n argument_n and_o scope_n in_o those_o place_n camp_n the_o general_a scope_n of_o saint_n paul_n be_v to_o exclude_v all_o work_n both_o of_o jew_n and_o gentile_n in_o that_o epistle_n but_o in_o the_o way_n of_o discourse_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o incident_o a_o other_o answer_n be_v to_o be_v give_v charke_n this_o last_o part_n of_o your_o speech_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o first_o do_v grant_v all_o that_o i_o desire_v matter_n camp_n he_o exclude_v the_o precedent_n work_v of_o abraham_n charke_n the_o end_n why_o work_n be_v seclude_v from_o justification_n do_v prove_v for_o i_o for_o the_o apostle_n in_o that_o place_n show_v the_o final_a counsel_n &_o purpose_n of_o the_o lord_n to_o be_v far_o otherwise_o than_o you_o suppose_v and_o to_o remember_v my_o promise_n of_o syllogism_n i_o will_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o very_a form_n of_o the_o apostle_n word_n the_o end_n 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holy_a ghost_n note_v it_o the_o apostle_n faith_n master_n campion_n prove_v that_o abraham_n be_v justify_v by_o work_n i_o reply_v against_o you_o with_o a_o double_a argument_n first_o abraham_n have_v all_o his_o work_n of_o christ_n for_o he_o 1_o be_v faithful_a therefore_o the_o work_n exclude_v be_v work_n wrought_v in_o grace_n second_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o he_o as_o of_o a_o infidel_n but_o as_o 2_o be_v the_o father_n of_o believer_n therefore_o the_o apostle_n exclude_v not_o work_n without_o expectation_n of_o christ_n as_o you_o speak_v answer_v it_o campion_n camp_n i_o answer_v that_o no_o work_n of_o abraham_n be_v exclude_v charke_n and_o i_o have_v prove_v that_o all_o be_v exclude_v and_o you_o can_v neither_o answer_v the_o syllogism_n nor_o satisfy_v the_o place_n of_o saint_n paul_n the_o text_n and_o argument_n be_v clear_a if_o abraham_n be_v justify_v by_o any_o work_n he_o have_v wherein_o to_o glory_v but_o he_o can_v not_o glory_v in_o any_o thing_n for_o that_o be_v absurd_a by_o the_o apostle_n reason_n therefore_o there_o be_v no_o work_n of_o merit_n or_o justification_n in_o he_o camp_n this_o be_v the_o apostle_n reason_n all_o the_o good_a work_n of_o abraham_n be_v found_v in_o christ_n and_o by_o these_o good_a work_n he_o be_v justify_v therefore_o he_o be_v justify_v by_o christ._n for_o if_o he_o have_v be_v justify_v by_o other_o work_n exclude_v christ_n he_o may_v have_v glory_v and_o not_o be_v justify_v by_o christ._n charke_n i_o can_v go_v no_o further_o in_o this_o argument_n for_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v against_o you_o that_o be_v the_o plain_a text_n and_o argument_n also_o i_o advow_v word_n it_o and_o make_v all_o this_o company_n witness_n that_o you_o have_v utter_v in_o these_o strait_n plain_a contradictory_n proposition_n the_o apostle_n prove_v that_o abraham_n be_v
faith_n be_v of_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o see_v you_o have_v grant_v many_o absurdity_n this_o day_n while_o you_o labour_v to_o defend_v that_o the_o church_n on_o earth_n be_v always_o visible_a and_o now_o the_o conclusion_n be_v worst_a of_o all_o that_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o which_o you_o be_v so_o earnest_a be_v prove_v to_o be_v no_o article_n of_o faith_n campion_n why_o may_v not_o a_o man_n see_v &_o yet_o believe_v peter_n see_v he_o who_o he_o believe_v say_v thou_o be_v christ_n the_o son_n of_o the_o live_a god_n etc._n etc._n fulke_n that_o which_o he_o see_v of_o christ_n be_v experimental_a knowledge_n but_o that_o which_o he_o confess_v christ_n to_o be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n be_v of_o faith_n and_o not_o of_o sense_n for_o flesh_n and_o blood_n reveal_v it_o not_o unto_o he_o but_o god_n from_o heaven_n that_o which_o peter_n see_v of_o christ_n with_o his_o bodily_a eye_n be_v see_v of_o many_o unbelieve_a jew_n and_o of_o judas_n the_o traitor_n but_o 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be_v make_v what_o point_n they_o shall_v deal_v upon_o and_o be_v ask_v whether_o he_o will_v defend_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n he_o deny_v to_o meddle_v therein_o as_o be_v dangerous_a unless_o leave_n may_v be_v obtain_v of_o her_o majesty_n most_o honourable_a counsel_n then_o be_v demand_v whether_o he_o will_v deal_v with_o that_o question_n in_o the_o after_o noon_n whether_o the_o church_n may_v err_v he_o consent_v the_o company_n present_v agree_v thereunto_o and_o so_o the_o hour_n be_v appoint_v at_o two_o of_o the_o clock_n after_o dinner_n the_o replyer_n have_v no_o long_a time_n to_o provide_v their_o argument_n in_o the_o after_o noon_n ❧_o the_o question_n whether_o the_o visible_a church_n may_v err_v first_o because_o promise_n be_v make_v in_o the_o forenoon_n that_o those_o place_n which_o be_v omit_v shall_v be_v show_v d._n goad_n bring_v forth_o his_o place_n out_o of_o chrysostome_n upon_o math._n 5._o rursus_fw-la eos_fw-la per_fw-la ista_fw-la ad_fw-la bene_fw-la vivendum_fw-la ac_fw-la diligetiam_fw-la cohortatur_fw-la ostendens_fw-la ut_fw-la studeant_fw-la esse_fw-la soliciti_fw-la quasiante_fw-la omnium_fw-la oculos_fw-la constituti_fw-la &_o in_o medio_fw-la orbis_fw-la terrarum_fw-la theatro_fw-la nolite_fw-la inquit_fw-la aspicere_fw-la quia_fw-la in_o isto_fw-la nunc_fw-la residemus_fw-la loco_fw-la in_fw-la exigua_fw-la sumus_fw-la parte_fw-la certaminis_fw-la sic_fw-la enim_fw-la eritis_fw-la manifesti_fw-la cunctis_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la civitas_fw-la in_o montis_fw-la vertice_fw-la collocata_fw-la vel_fw-la sicut_fw-la lucerna_fw-la in_o domo_fw-la super_fw-la candelabrum_fw-la relucens_fw-la again_o by_o these_o thing_n he_o exhort_v they_o by_o diligence_n of_o well_o live_v that_o they_o may_v stand_v to_o be_v careful_a as_o they_o that_o be_v set_v before_o all_o man_n eye_n and_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o theatre_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n do_v not_o you_o regard_v say_v he_o that_o we_o remain_v now_o in_o this_o place_n and_o be_v but_o in_o a_o small_a part_n of_o our_o battle_n for_o you_o shall_v be_v so_o manifest_a to_o all_o man_n as_o a_o city_n place_v upon_o the_o top_n of_o a_o hill_n or_o as_o a_o candle_n shine_v in_o a_o house_n upon_o a_o candlestick_n etc._n etc._n here_o you_o see_v by_o the_o judgement_n of_o chrysostome_n expound_v the_o place_n that_o it_o only_o respect_v the_o apostle_n which_o you_o deny_v to_o day_n for_o he_o exhort_v they_o to_o live_v well_o as_o those_o that_o be_v set_v in_o the_o sight_n and_o eye_n of_o all_o and_o therefore_o must_v be_v careful_a how_o they_o bear_v themselves_o upon_o that_o open_a stage_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n be_v as_o a_o city_n upon_o a_o hill_n campion_n the_o place_n be_v nothing_o against_o i_o for_o it_o pertain_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n do_v chrysostome_n contrary_a any_o thing_n speak_v by_o i_o do_v not_o their_o function_n their_o faith_n and_o religion_n their_o place_n show_v that_o this_o be_v not_o speak_v only_o to_o they_o goad_n these_o be_v but_o word_n it_o be_v plain_a he_o note_v their_o doctrine_n by_o the_o salt_n and_o their_o conversation_n by_o the_o light_n campion_n he_o speak_v not_o any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o that_o which_o i_o have_v say_v goad_n yes_o you_o say_v the_o place_n mean_v the_o whole_a church_n to_o prove_v the_o visibilitie_n thereof_o as_o a_o city_n set_v upon_o a_o hill_n can_v not_o be_v hide_v whereas_o chrysostome_n interprete_v it_o of_o the_o ministry_n only_o as_o be_v manifest_a by_o the_o word_n salt_n &_o the_o whole_a drift_n of_o the_o place_n campion_n of_o all_o other_o first_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o prelate_n then_o to_o their_o flock_n as_o i_o have_v show_v you_o by_o the_o example_n of_o a_o master_n of_o a_o family_n goad_n it_o belong_v in_o deed_n to_o the_o flock_n also_o to_o live_v well_o but_o this_o place_n be_v not_o direct_v unto_o they_o it_o be_v absurd_a against_o the_o whole_a scope_n of_o the_o place_n to_o make_v a_o general_a conclusion_n from_o a_o particular_a from_o the_o apostle_n to_o the_o whole_a church_n campion_n the_o apostle_n be_v faithful_a they_o include_v the_o whole_a church_n as_o they_o be_v christian_n and_o not_o apostle_n goad_n why_o then_o that_o which_o be_v speak_v to_o the_o apostle_n be_v likewise_o speak_v to_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v say_v to_o the_o apostle_n drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o ergo_fw-la to_o the_o whole_a church_n campion_n that_o be_v personal_a and_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o function_n he_o speak_v only_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o be_v present_a but_o there_o be_v none_o present_a but_o the_o apostle_n like_o that_o which_o be_v say_v to_o the_o apostle_n go_v you_o and_o preach_v to_o all_o nation_n baptise_v etc._n etc._n do_v he_o therefore_o command_v the_o people_n also_o to_o preach_v and_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n goad_n the_o race_n be_v far_o unlike_a the_o receive_n of_o the_o sacrament_n belong_v to_o all_o christian_n they_o must_v all_o receive_v and_o though_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o minister_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o funetion_n be_v only_o appropriate_a to_o the_o apostle_n and_o minister_n yet_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n be_v common_a to_o all_o christian_n so_o by_o manifest_a difference_n it_o appear_v that_o the_o commandment_n go_v &_o preach_v be_v personal_a belong_v to_o one_o calling_n and_o the_o commandment_n commandment_n drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o be_v general_a to_o all_o the_o faithful_a campion_n there_o be_v no_o place_n in_o the_o institution_n that_o command_v the_o common_a people_n to_o drink_v or_o not_o to_o drink_v goad_n the_o apostle_n the_o best_a interpreter_n of_o christ_n institution_n apply_v it_o to_o the_o whole_a church_n 1._o cor._n 11._o verse_n 23._o that_o
which_o i_o receive_v of_o the_o lord_n etc._n etc._n and_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n you_o may_v say_v as_o be_v say_v before_o there_o be_v no_o commandment_n to_o receive_v the_o communion_n campion_n there_o be_v no_o commandment_n in_o that_o institution_n that_o the_o lay_v people_n shall_v receive_v the_o communion_n fulke_n that_o be_v a_o shameful_a absurdity_n but_o now_o see_v the_o place_n be_v show_v let_v we_o come_v to_o the_o question_n agree_v upon_o whether_o the_o church_n militant_a 〈◊〉_d err_v that_o it_o may_v 〈◊〉_d i_o prove_v thus_o whatsoever_o error_n be_v incident_a to_o every_o member_n be_v incident_a to_o the_o whole_a but_o it_o be_v incident_a to_o every_o member_n to_o err_v ergo_fw-la to_o the_o whole_a campion_n i_o deny_v both_o the_o maiorand_n minor_n disputation_n fulke_n why_o the_o mayor_n be_v from_o a_o place_n in_o logic_n that_o which_o be_v incident_a to_o every_o part_n must_v needs_o be_v incident_a to_o the_o whole_a as_o every_o part_n of_o a_o man_n body_n be_v subject_a to_o corruption_n therefore_o the_o whole_a body_n be_v subject_a to_o corruption_n campion_n there_o be_v no_o such_o place_n in_o logic_n every_o man_n may_v err_v but_o not_o the_o whole_a gather_v together_o your_o example_n be_v not_o like_a for_o the_o whole_a have_v a_o promise_n and_o so_o have_v not_o every_o particular_a man_n fulke_n the_o whole_a have_v no_o promise_n that_o it_o shall_v not_o err_v more_o theu_fw-la every_o particular_a member_n for_o every_o member_n of_o christ_n have_v the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n and_o therefore_o the_o same_o promise_n that_o the_o whole_a have_v campion_n why_o then_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o heretic_n fulke_n yes_o heretic_n may_v be_v within_o the_o church_n but_o not_o of_o the_o church_n si_fw-la ex_fw-la nobis_fw-la essent_fw-la permansissent_fw-la nobiscum_fw-la say_v saint_n john_n if_o they_o have_v be_v of_o we_o they_o have_v abide_v with_o us._n camp_n they_o be_v of_o we_o in_o appearance_n &_o in_o outward_a show_n fulke_n i_o deny_v that_o they_o be_v of_o we_o though_o in_o outward_a profession_n they_o seem_v to_o be_v of_o we_o for_o in_o deed_n they_o be_v never_o of_o us._n john_n 3._o they_o go_v out_o from_o we_o but_o they_o be_v never_o of_o us._n and_o he_o add_v the_o reason_n for_o if_o they_o have_v be_v of_o we_o they_o have_v remain_v with_o us._n they_o be_v within_o the_o church_n but_o they_o be_v never_o of_o the_o church_n campion_n christ_n say_v of_o they_o that_o fall_v away_o in_o persecution_n that_o they_o believe_v the_o gospel_n therefore_o before_o persecution_n they_o be_v of_o we_o but_o they_o depart_v from_o we_o etc._n etc._n they_o be_v of_o we_o according_a to_o faith_n though_o they_o be_v not_o according_a to_o election_n fulke_n christ_n speak_v not_o there_o of_o true_a justify_n faith_n nor_o of_o the_o elect_a but_o of_o those_o that_o believe_v for_o a_o time_n for_o if_o they_o have_v be_v of_o we_o they_o will_v have_v remain_v still_o with_o we_o but_o they_o be_v not_o of_o we_o neither_o according_a to_o justify_v faith_n nor_o according_a to_o election_n camp_n the_o meaning_n of_o john_n be_v they_o be_v not_o of_o we_o according_a to_o the_o election_n of_o god_n yet_o they_o be_v of_o the_o militant_a church_n which_o contain_v both_o good_a and_o evil_a fulke_n it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v contain_v both_o good_a and_o evil_n but_o the_o elect_n only_o be_v of_o the_o church_n campion_n why_o what_o say_v you_o by_o david_n when_o he_o commit_v adultery_n be_v he_o elect_v and_o the_o child_n of_o god_n fulke_n i_o say_v he_o do_v wicked_o but_o yet_o he_o be_v and_o remain_v elect_v and_o the_o child_n of_o god_n campion_n this_o be_v strange_a but_o i_o say_v when_o he_o commit_v adultery_n he_o be_v the_o child_n of_o the_o devil_n for_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o that_o commit_v sin_n be_v the_o servant_n of_o sin_n but_o david_n commit_v sin_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v the_o servant_n of_o sin_n and_o the_o child_n of_o the_o devil_n goad_n the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n be_v that_o he_o that_o give_v himself_o over_o to_o sin_n be_v the_o servant_n of_o sin_n to_o be_v lead_v whole_o by_o it_o in_o who_o sin_n reign_v but_o no_o particular_a sin_n in_o the_o elect_a do_v make_v the_o child_n of_o god_n to_o become_v the_o child_n of_o the_o devil_n neither_o do_v separate_v they_o from_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n fulke_n he_o that_o be_v once_o a_o true_a member_n of_o christ_n can_v never_o become_v a_o member_n of_o the_o devil_n campion_n then_o once_o good_a and_o never_o evil_a fulke_n that_o follow_v not_o he_o may_v fall_v into_o evil_n but_o never_o final_o goad_n the_o place_n be_v to_o be_v understodde_n of_o he_o that_o fall_v of_o malice_n and_o not_o of_o he_o that_o fall_v by_o infirmity_n campion_n he_o that_o fall_v into_o adultery_n fall_v malicious_o for_o he_o may_v resist_v if_o he_o will_n for_o every_o member_n of_o the_o church_n have_v power_n to_o withstand_v sin_n if_o he_o will_n fulke_n now_o we_o shall_v have_v free_a will_n by_o campion_n i_o mean_v not_o of_o himself_o but_o by_o grace_n for_o when_o god_n have_v give_v he_o grace_n he_o may_v if_o he_o will_v resist_v answer_v i_o this_o place_n he_o be_v the_o servant_n of_o sin_n that_o commit_v sin_n fulke_n you_o be_v answer_v before_o campion_n why_o then_o you_o hold_v that_o a_o catholic_a fall_v into_o adultery_n be_v still_o the_o child_n of_o god_n i_o grant_v that_o for_o every_o offence_n god_n do_v not_o cast_v out_o his_o son_n for_o in_o a_o great_a house_n in_o magna_fw-la domo_fw-la there_o be_v many_o son_n which_o though_o they_o be_v disobedient_a they_o cease_v not_o to_o be_v son_n till_o they_o be_v cast_v out_o etc._n etc._n but_o when_o they_o be_v cast_v out_o they_o be_v no_o more_o the_o son_n of_o god_n fulk_n god_n cast_v out_o none_o of_o his_o si●…es_n for_o if_o they_o be_v son_n they_o be_v also_o heir_n they_o be_v the_o apostle_n word_n camp_n i_o say_v they_o be_v son_n for_o the_o tune_n which_o be_v cast_v out_o eijcit_fw-la in_o exteriores_fw-la tenebras_fw-la he_o cast_v they_o out_o into_o utter_a darkness_n he_o that_o have_v not_o the_o nuptial_a garment_n make_v this_o claim_n to_o be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o sit_v down_o among_o god_n child_n but_o he_o be_v cast_v out_o into_o utter_a darkness_n fulk_n but_o he_o be_v never_o any_o son_n but_o a_o hypocrite_n &_o therefore_o no_o marvel_n if_o he_o be_v cast_v out_o s._n paul_n say_v that_o a_o son_n be_v a_o heir_n camp_n why_o be_v not_o all_o that_o be_v bapti●…_n the_o son_n of_o god_n fulk_n no_o for_o they_o have_v not_o all_o the_o spirit_n of_o adoption_n camp_n why_o then_o what_o judge_v you_o of_o infant_n that_o die_v without_o baptism_n or_o immediate_o after_o they_o be_v baptize_v be_v they_o not_o the_o child_n of_o god_n fulke_n i_o take_v not_o upon_o i_o to_o judge_v but_o if_o they_o be_v not_o god_n we_o elect_v baptism_n can_v make_v they_o his_o child_n camp_n then_o christ_n command_v baptism_n in_o vain_a if_o it_o save_v not_o those_o that_o be_v baptize_v fulke_n that_o be_v not_o so_o for_o there_o be_v a_o necessary_a use_n of_o baptise_v though_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v not_o give_v to_o every_o one_o that_o receive_v baptism_n i_o baptize_v with_o water_n say_v john_n baptist●…_n but_o christ_n baptize_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n camp_n i_o will_v prove_v that_o infant_n be_v without_o si●…_n &_o therefore_o must_v needs_o be_v save_v for_o if_o they_o have_v sin_n they_o must_v either_o have_v original_a sin_n or_o actual_a sin_n but_o be_v baptize_v they_o have_v neither_o of_o both_o for_o original_a sin_n be_v take_v away_o by_o baptism_n &_o as_o for_o actual_a sin_n they_o never_o commit_v any_o ergo_fw-la they_o be_v without_o sin_n fulke_n original_a sin_n be_v not_o take_v away_o from_o any_o in_o this_o life_n but_o it_o be_v not_o impute_v to_o the_o elect_a m._n lieutenant_n m._n doctor_n the_o question_n that_o be_v appoint_v before_o dinner_n be_v whether_o the_o visible_a church_n may_v err_v goad_n m._n lieutenant_n he_o continual_o draw_v we_o into_o new_a question_n to_o avoid_v the_o matter_n in_o controversy_n shall_v i_o enter_v that_o question_n i_o will_v recite_v some_o church_n in_o the_o apostles_n time_n &_o ask_v your_o judgement_n of_o they_o &_o then_o go_v to_o my_o argument_n the_o church_n of_o corinth_n &_o of_o galatia_n what_o say_v you_o to_o they_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n though_o they_o have_v a_o promise_n as_o you_o say_v do_v