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reason_n apostle_n church_n speak_v 2,322 5 4.7811 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
B01998 Certaine papers, which passed betwixt his Majestie of Great Britaine, in the time of his being with the Scottish army in New-Castle. And Mr. Alexander Henderson concerning the change of church government. Anno Dom. 1646. Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646. 1649 (1649) Wing C2154; Wing C2154; ESTC R171161 26,474 64

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better_a reason_n be_v aver_v that_o the_o bishop_n have_v their_o power_n from_o the_o pope_n than_o that_o presbyter_n have_v their_o power_n from_o the_o prelate_n it_o be_v true_a jerome_n say_v quid_fw-la facit_fw-la exceptâ_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la episcopus_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la facit_fw-la presbyter_n but_o in_o the_o same_o place_n he_o prove_v from_o scripture_n that_o episcopus_fw-la &_o presbyter_n be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o and_o therefore_o when_o he_o appropriate_v ordination_n to_o the_o bishop_n he_o speak_v of_o the_o degenerate_v custom_n of_o his_o time_n 2._o concern_v baptism_n a_o private_a person_n may_v perform_v the_o external_a action_n &_o rite_n both_o of_o it_o and_o of_o the_o eucharist_n yet_o be_v neither_o of_o the_o two_o a_o sacrament_n or_o have_v any_o efficacy_n unless_o it_o be_v do_v by_o he_o that_o be_v lawful_o call_v there_o unto_o or_o by_o a_o person_n make_v public_a &_o clothe_v with_o authority_n by_o ordination_n this_o error_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o baptism_n be_v beget_v by_o another_o error_n of_o the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o baptism_n 7._o to_o that_o which_o have_v be_v say_v concern_v your_o majesty_n oath_n i_o shall_v add_v nothing_o not_o be_v willing_a to_o enter_v upon_o the_o question_n of_o the_o subordination_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o civil_a power_n whether_o to_o king_n or_o parliament_n or_o both_o or_o to_o either_o of_o they_o in_o their_o own_o place_n such_o a_o headship_n as_o the_o king_n of_o england_n have_v claim_v and_o such_o a_o supremacy_n as_o the_o house_n of_o parliament_n crave_v with_o appeal_v from_o the_o supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judicature_n to_o they_o as_o set_v over_o the_o church_n in_o the_o same_o line_n of_o subordination_n i_o do_v utter_o disclaim_v upon_o such_o reason_n as_o give_v myself_o satisfaction_n although_o no_o man_n shall_v be_v more_o willing_a to_o submit_v to_o civil_a power_n each_o one_o in_o their_o own_o place_n and_o more_o unwilling_a to_o make_v any_o trouble_n then_o myself_o only_o concern_v the_o application_n of_o the_o general_n of_o a_o oath_n to_o the_o particular_a case_n now_o in_o hand_n under_o favour_n i_o conceive_v not_o how_o the_o clergy_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v principal_o intend_v in_o your_o oath_n for_o although_o they_o be_v esteem_v to_o be_v the_o representative_a church_n yet_o even_o that_o be_v for_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o church_n collective_a salus_fw-la populi_n be_v suprema_fw-la lex_fw-la and_o to_o be_v principal_o intend_v your_o majesty_n know_v it_o be_v so_o in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n where_o the_o like_a alteration_n be_v make_v and_o if_o nothing_o of_o this_o kind_n can_v be_v do_v with_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o clergy_n what_o reformation_n can_v be_v expect_v in_o france_n or_o spain_n or_o rome_n itself_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o pope_n or_o prelate_n will_v consent_v to_o their_o own_o ruin_n 8._o i_o will_v not_o presume_v upon_o any_o secret_a knowledge_n of_o the_o opinion_n hold_v by_o the_o king_n your_o majesty_n father_n of_o famous_a memory_n they_o be_v much_o better_o know_v to_o your_o majesty_n i_o do_v only_o produce_v what_o be_v profess_v by_o he_o before_o the_o world_n and_o although_o prayer_n and_o tear_n be_v the_o arm_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o it_o be_v neither_o acceptable_a to_o god_n nor_o conducible_a for_o king_n &_o prince_n to_o force_v the_o church_n to_o put_v on_o these_o arm_n nor_o can_v i_o ever_o hear_v a_o reason_n why_o a_o necessary_a defensive_a war_n against_o unjust_a violence_n be_v unlawful_a although_o it_o be_v join_v with_o offence_n and_o invasion_n which_o be_v intend_v for_o defence_n but_o so_o that_o arm_n be_v lay_v down_o when_o the_o offensive_a war_n cease_v by_o which_o it_o do_v appear_v that_o the_o war_n on_o the_o other_o side_n be_v in_o the_o nature_n thereof_o defensive_a 9_o concern_v the_o force_n of_o conscience_n which_o i_o pretermit_v in_o my_o other_o paper_n i_o be_o force_v now_o but_o without_o force_v of_o conscience_n to_o speak_v of_o our_o conscience_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v force_v either_o by_o ourselves_o or_o by_o other_o by_o ourselves_o 1._o when_o we_o stop_v the_o ear_n of_o our_o conscience_n and_o will_v not_o hearken_v or_o give_v place_n to_o information_n resolve_v obstinate_o nesi_fw-la persuaseris_fw-la persuadebis_fw-la which_o be_v no_o less_o than_o a_o resist_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n &_o the_o harden_v of_o our_o heart_n 2._o or_o when_o we_o stop_v the_o mouth_n and_o suppress_v the_o clamour_n of_o our_o conscience_n resolve_v rather_o to_o suffer_v the_o worm_n to_o gnaw_v &_o the_o fire_n to_o burn_v inward_o they_o to_o make_v profession_n of_o that_o we_o be_v convince_v to_o be_v truth_n 3._o or_o when_o we_o fear_v our_o conscience_n as_o with_o a_o hot_a iron_n that_o it_o become_v senseless_a which_o be_v the_o punishment_n of_o the_o former_a unto_o which_o be_v oppose_v the_o true_o tender_a conscience_n such_o as_o josiah_n have_v 2_o king_n 22.19_o again_o 1._o our_o conscience_n be_v say_v to_o be_v force_v by_o other_o when_o they_o obtrude_v upon_o we_o what_o be_v in_o itself_o evil_a and_o unlawful_a which_o if_o we_o admit_v against_o our_o own_o conscience_n we_o sin_v two_o way_n one_o be_v by_o do_v that_o which_o be_v in_o itself_o evil_a and_o unlawful_a the_o other_o be_v by_o do_v it_o against_o a_o dictate_v of_o conscience_n which_o be_v a_o contempt_n of_o god_n who_o vicegerent_n it_o be_v 2_o or_o when_o other_o urge_v we_o to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v in_o itself_o good_a or_o may_v lawful_o be_v do_v but_o through_o error_n of_o conscience_n we_o judge_v it_o to_o be_v evil_a and_o unlawful_a in_o this_o case_n if_o we_o do_v not_o that_o which_o be_v press_v upon_o we_o we_o sin_n because_o the_o thing_n be_v good_a and_o lawful_a and_o if_o we_o do_v it_o we_o sin_n because_o we_o do_v against_o our_o conscience_n which_o in_o this_o case_n bind_v but_o oblige_v not_o and_o yet_o there_o be_v a_o way_n to_o escape_v out_o of_o this_o labyrinth_n it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o equity_n of_o the_o will_n of_o god_n to_o lay_v a_o necessity_n of_o sin_v upon_o any_o man_n the_o only_a way_n be_v to_o lay_v aside_o such_o a_o conscience_n it_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o old_a man_n which_o we_o be_v command_v to_o put_v off_o otherwise_o we_o be_v sufficient_o inform_v and_o yet_o cleave_v to_o our_o old_a error_n we_o rather_o do_v violence_n to_o our_o conscience_n ourselves_o then_o suffer_v violence_n from_o other_o the_o application_n for_o answer_v the_o quaere_fw-la i_o leave_v to_o your_o majesty_n newcastle_n june_n 17._o 1646._o for_o mr._n alex_n henderson_n in_o reply_n to_o his_o second_o paper_n june_n 22._o 1646._o his_o majesty_n three_o paper_n 1._o i_o it_o be_v arrogance_n beside_o loss_n of_o time_n in_o i_o to_o vie_v preamble_n with_o you_o for_o it_o be_v the_o truth_n i_o seek_v and_o neither_o praise_n nor_o victory_n wherefore_o i_o shall_v only_o insist_v upon_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v mere_o necessary_a to_o my_o own_o satisfaction_n in_o order_n to_o which_o i_o desire_v the_o assistance_n of_o some_o divine_n whereupon_o i_o will_v insist_v no_o further_o save_v only_o to_o wish_v that_o you_o may_v not_o as_o i_o have_v know_v many_o man_n do_v loose_a time_n by_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o way_n to_o save_v it_o wherein_o i_o have_v only_o seek_v to_o disburden_v myself_o but_o to_o lay_v no_o blame_n upon_o you_o and_o so_o i_o leave_v it_o 2._o nor_o will_v i_o say_v more_o of_o the_o second_o than_o this_o that_o i_o be_o glad_a you_o have_v so_o well_o approve_v of_o what_o i_o have_v say_v concern_v my_o education_n and_o reason_n but_o then_o remember_v that_o another_o man_n will_n be_v at_o least_o as_o weak_a a_o ground_n to_o build_v my_o faith_n upon_o as_o my_o former_a education_n 3._o in_o this_o there_o be_v two_o point_n first_o concern_v the_o reform_a power_n then_o anent_o the_o english_a reformation_n for_o the_o first_o i_o confess_v you_o now_o speak_v clear_o which_o before_o you_o do_v but_o dark_o mention_v wherein_o i_o shall_v main_o differ_v with_o you_o until_o you_o shall_v show_v i_o better_a reason_n yet_o thus_o far_o i_o will_v go_v along_o with_o you_o that_o when_o a_o general_n council_n can_v be_v have_v several_a kingdom_n may_v reform_v themselves_o which_o be_v learned_o and_o full_o prove_v by_o the_o late_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n in_o his_o disputation_n against_o fisher_n but_o that_o the_o inferior_a magistrate_n or_o people_n take_v it_o which_o way_n you_o will_v have_v this_o power_n i_o utter_o deny_v for_o which_o by_o your_o
minor_a will_v never_o be_v make_v good_a in_o the_o behalf_n of_o a_o diocaesan_n bishop_n have_v sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v a_o multitude_n of_o father_n who_o maintain_v that_o bishop_n and_o persbyter_n be_v of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o order_n i_o shall_v humble_o offer_v some_o few_o consideration_n about_o the_o major_a because_o it_o have_v be_v a_o inlet_n to_o many_o dangerous_a error_n and_o have_v prove_v a_o mighty_a hindrance_n and_o obstruction_n to_o reformation_n of_o religion_n 1._o first_o i_o desire_v it_o may_v be_v consider_v that_o while_o some_o make_v two_o rule_n for_o define_v controversy_n the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o antiquity_n which_o they_o will_v have_v to_o be_v receive_v with_o equal_a veneration_n or_o as_o the_o papist_n call_v they_o canonical_a authority_n and_o catholical_a tradition_n and_o other_o make_v scripture_n to_o be_v the_o only_a rule_n and_o antiquity_n the_o authentic_a interpreter_n the_o latter_a of_o the_o two_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o be_v the_o great_a error_n because_o the_o first_o set_v up_o a_o parallel_n in_o the_o same_o degree_n with_o scripture_n but_o this_o will_v create_v a_o superior_a in_o a_o high_a degree_n above_o scripture_n for_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n shall_v be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o account_v the_o very_a cause_n and_o reason_n for_o which_o we_o conceive_v and_o believe_v such_o a_o place_n of_o scripture_n to_o have_v such_o a_o sense_n and_o thus_o man_n shall_v have_v dominion_n over_o our_o faith_n against_o 2_o cor._n 1.24_o our_o faith_n shall_v stand_v in_o the_o wisdom_n of_o man_n and_o not_o in_o the_o power_n of_o god_n 1_o cor._n 2.5_o and_o scripture_n shall_v be_v of_o private_a interpretation_n for_o the_o prophecy_n come_v not_o of_o old_a by_o the_o will_n of_o man_n 2_o pet._n 1.20_o 22._o nisi_fw-la homini_fw-la deus_fw-la placuerit_fw-la deus_fw-la non_fw-la erit_fw-la homo_fw-la jam_fw-la deo_fw-la propitius_fw-la esse_fw-la debebit_fw-la say_v tertullian_n 2._o that_o scripture_n can_v be_v authentical_o interpret_v but_o by_o scripture_n be_v manifest_a from_o scripture_n the_o levite_n give_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o law_n by_o no_o other_o mean_n but_o by_o scripture_n itself_o neh._n 8.8_o our_o saviour_n for_o example_n to_o we_o give_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o scripture_n against_o the_o depravation_n of_o satan_n by_o compare_v scripture_n with_o scripture_n and_o not_o by_o allege_v and_o testimony_n out_o of_o the_o rabbin_n mat._n 4._o and_o the_o apostle_n in_o their_o epistle_n use_v no_o other_o help_n but_o the_o diligent_a compare_v of_o prophetical_a writing_n like_v as_o the_o apostle_n peter_n will_v have_v we_o to_o compare_v the_o clear_a light_n of_o the_o apostle_n with_o the_o more_o obscure_a light_n of_o the_o prophet_n 2_o pet._n 1.19_o and_o when_o we_o betake_v ourselves_o to_o the_o father_n we_o have_v need_v to_o take_v heed_n that_o with_o the_o papist_n we_o accuse_v not_o the_o scripture_n of_o obscurity_n or_o imperfection_n 3._o the_o father_n themselves_o as_o they_o be_v cite_v by_o protestant_a writer_n hold_v this_o conclusion_n that_o scripture_n be_v not_o to_o be_v interpret_v but_o by_o scripture_n itself_o to_o this_o purpose_n among_o many_o other_o testimony_n they_o bring_v the_o say_n of_o tertullian_n surge_n veritas_fw-la ipsa_fw-la scripturas_fw-la tuas_fw-la interpretare_fw-la quam_fw-la consuetudo_fw-la non_fw-la novit_fw-la nam_fw-la si_fw-la noscet_fw-la non_fw-la esset_fw-la if_o it_o know_v scripture_n it_o will_v be_v ashamed_a of_o itself_o and_o cease_v to_o be_v any_o more_o 4._o the_o some_o error_n have_v be_v receive_v and_o continue_v for_o a_o long_a time_n in_o the_o church_n the_o error_n of_o free_a will_n beginning_n at_o justin_n martyr_n continue_v till_o the_o time_n of_o reformation_n although_o it_o be_v reject_v by_o augustine_n as_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o episcopacy_n be_v oppose_v by_o other_o the_o error_n about_o the_o vision_n of_o god_n that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v see_v not_o the_o face_n of_o god_n till_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o great_a day_n be_v hold_v by_o universal_a consent_n the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v of_o the_o error_n of_o the_o millenaryes_n and_o which_o more_o near_o touch_v upon_o the_o present_a question_n the_o ancient_n err_v gross_o about_o the_o antichrist_n and_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n which_o do_v begin_v to_o work_v in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o apostle_n many_o other_o instance_n may_v be_v bring_v to_o prove_v the_o universal_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v not_o warrant_v by_o the_o apostle_n as_o in_o the_o rite_n of_o baptism_n and_o prayer_n and_o the_o form_n up_o and_o draw_v together_o of_o the_o article_n of_o that_o creed_n that_o be_v call_v symbolum_n apostolicum_fw-la the_o observation_n of_o many_o feast_n and_o fast_n both_o aniversary_n and_o weekly_n 5._o that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n so_o incredible_a or_o impossible_a as_o some_o will_v have_v it_o appear_v to_o be_v for_o the_o primitive_a church_n to_o have_v make_v a_o sudden_a defection_n from_o the_o apostolical_a purity_n the_o people_n of_o israel_n in_o the_o short_a time_n of_o moses_n his_o absence_n on_o the_o mount_n turn_v aside_o quick_o and_o fall_v into_o horrible_a idolatry_n exod._n 32._o soon_o after_o the_o death_n of_o josuah_n and_o the_o elder_n that_o have_v see_v the_o great_a work_n which_o the_o lord_n have_v do_v for_o israel_n there_o arise_v another_o generation_n after_o they_o which_o do_v evil_a in_o the_o sight_n of_o the_o lord_n judg._n 2._o &_o 7._o soon_o after_o the_o build_n of_o the_o temple_n and_o settle_v of_o religion_n by_o david_n and_o solomon_n the_o worship_n of_o god_n be_v defile_v with_o idolatry_n when_o rehoboam_n have_v establish_v the_o kingdom_n he_o forsake_v the_o law_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o all_o israel_n with_o he_o 2_o chron._n 12.1_o and_o the_o apostle_n say_v too_o the_o galatian_n gal._n 1.6_o i_o marvel_v that_o you_o be_v so_o soon_o remove_v unto_o another_o gospel_n why_o then_o shall_v we_o think_v it_o strange_a that_o in_o the_o matter_n of_o discipline_n there_o shall_v be_v a_o sudden_a defection_n especial_o it_o be_v begin_v in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n i_o know_v it_o be_v a_o common_a opinion_n but_o i_o believe_v there_o be_v no_o strong_a reason_n for_o it_o that_o the_o church_n which_o be_v near_a the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v the_o most_o pure_a and_o perfect_a church_n 6._o that_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o universal_a consent_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o many_o of_o the_o father_n write_v nothing_o at_o all_o many_o of_o their_o writing_n be_v perish_v it_o may_v be_v that_o both_o of_o these_o have_v dissent_v from_o the_o rest_n many_o of_o the_o write_n which_o we_o have_v 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so_o far_o prefer_v to_o the_o modern_a doctor_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o one_o in_o a_o manner_n deify_v and_o the_o other_o vilify_v it_o be_v but_o a_o poor_a reason_n that_o some_o give_v fama_fw-la miratrix_fw-la sen●oris_fw-la aevi_fw-la and_o be_v abundant_o answer_v by_o the_o apologist_n for_o divine_a providence_n if_o your_o majesty_n be_v still_o unsatisfied_a concern_v the_o rule_n i_o know_v not_o to_o what_o purpose_n i_o shall_v proceed_v or_o trouble_v your_o majesty_n any_o more_o newcastle_n july_n 2._o 1646._o for_o mr._n alex_n henderson_n july_n 3._o 1646._o his_o majesty_n four_o paper_n to_o show_v a_o better_a way_n for_o clear_v of_o the_o scripture_n i_o shall_v very_o willing_o follow_v the_o method_n you_o have_v begin_v in_o your_o three_o paper_n but_o i_o do_v not_o conceive_v that_o my_o last_o paper_n multiply_v more_o controversy_n than_o my_o first_o give_v occasion_n for_o have_v be_v so_o far_o from_o
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interpretation_n which_o be_v authentical_a and_o of_o supreme_a authority_n which_o every_o man_n conscience_n be_v bind_v to_o yield_v unto_o be_v of_o a_o high_a nature_n and_o although_o the_o general_n council_n shall_v resolve_v it_o &_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o father_n shall_v be_v have_v unto_o it_o yet_o there_o must_v always_o be_v place_n leave_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n as_o davenant_n late_a bishop_n of_o salisbury_n beside_z divers_z other_o have_v learned_o make_v appear_v in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr judice_fw-la controversiarum_fw-la where_o also_o the_o power_n of_o king_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n be_v solid_o and_o unpartial_o determine_v two_o word_n only_o i_o add_v one_o be_v that_o notwithstanding_o all_o that_o be_v pretend_v from_o antiquity_n a_o bishop_n have_v sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n will_v never_o be_v find_v in_o prime_a antiquity_n the_o other_o be_v that_o many_o of_o the_o father_n do_v unwitting_o 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