exposition_n of_o this_o text_n we_o have_v not_o observe_v one_o substantial_a ground_n or_o approve_a author_n to_o be_v allege_v dr._n ames_n show_v the_o necessity_n of_o christian_n join_v themselves_o to_o some_o peculiar_a church_n give_v this_o reason_n quoniam_fw-la alius_fw-la fieri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la quin_fw-la conturbentur_fw-la signa_fw-la illa_fw-la quibus_fw-la fideles_fw-la ab_fw-la infidelibus_fw-la discerni_fw-la possunt_fw-la 1_o cor._n 5.12_o but_o herein_o dr._n ames_n manifest_o show_v that_o by_o they_o without_o heathen_n and_o unbeliever_n must_v be_v understand_v and_o not_o believer_n though_o of_o no_o settle_a society_n for_o the_o time_n for_o thus_o we_o conceive_v he_o argue_v the_o sign_n whereby_o the_o faithful_a be_v to_o be_v discern_v from_o unbeliever_n must_v not_o be_v confound_v but_o unless_o christian_n make_v themselves_o actual_a member_n of_o a_o church_n the_o sign_n whereby_o the_o faithful_a be_v discern_v from_o unbeliever_n will_v be_v obscure_v and_o darken_v and_o if_o this_o be_v his_o reason_n how_o can_v that_o text_n be_v allege_v unless_o by_o man_n without_o infidel_n be_v understand_v answ_n first_o that_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o allege_v it_o in_o that_o sense_n and_o respect_v declare_v may_v appear_v by_o our_o answer_n to_o your_o objection_n second_o that_o we_o have_v one_o approve_a author_n so_o allege_v it_o viz._n doctor_n ames_n shall_v appear_v in_o clear_n his_o meaning_n from_o your_o objection_n 1._o grant_v that_o by_o man_n without_o according_a to_o doctor_n ames_n his_o reason_n infidel_n be_v understand_v by_o the_o apostle_n yet_o how_o shall_v the_o sign_n discern_v believer_n from_o unbeliever_n be_v confound_v by_o such_o as_o join_v not_o to_o some_o particular_a church_n if_o those_o believer_n do_v not_o in_o some_o respect_n stand_v without_o among_o unbeliever_n and_o the_o consequence_n be_v so_o plain_a that_o the_o own_o syllogism_n whereinto_o you_o cast_v his_o argument_n will_v have_v conclude_v so_o much_o if_o it_o have_v be_v suffer_v to_o speak_v out_o in_o the_o conclusion_n for_o in_o stead_n of_o say_v except_o such_o join_v to_o some_o church_n the_o sign_n will_v be_v darken_v and_o obscure_v the_o reason_n right_o conclude_v will_v have_v say_v fieri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la it_o can_v be_v but_o the_o sign_n will_v be_v confound_v and_o therefore_o in_o his_o judgement_n it_o be_v unavoidablâ—…_n that_o such_o mix_v themselves_o with_o unbeliever_n that_o be_v without_o indeed_o proper_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n reply_n again_o doctor_n ames_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 17._o speak_v of_o infant_n to_o be_v receive_v say_v it_o be_v require_v first_o that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n by_o outward_a profession_n etc._n etc._n answ_n what_o you_o allege_v here_o out_o of_o doctor_n ames_n we_o confess_v show_v that_o he_o be_v very_o large_a in_o his_o charity_n about_o the_o baptise_v of_o infant_n extend_v the_o same_o to_o the_o child_n of_o a_o papist_n etc._n etc._n but_o it_o may_v seem_v by_o some_o passage_n that_o he_o understand_v by_o profession_n of_o faith_n such_o as_o live_v in_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o look_n at_o the_o child_n of_o a_o papist_n as_o one_o of_o a_o visible_a church_n for_o substance_n though_o so_o exceed_o corrupt_a but_o all_o this_o do_v not_o disprove_v that_o he_o understand_v 1_o cor._n 5.12_o otherwise_o then_o have_v be_v say_v what_o you_o allege_v out_o of_o his_o second_o manuduction_n concern_v the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o consent_v unto_o neither_o do_v we_o deny_v seal_n to_o any_o if_o they_o demand_v they_o as_o member_n of_o any_o true_a church_n in_o england_n and_o in_o a_o orderly_a way_n chap._n x._o consid_n 5._o reply_n to_o the_o first_o consideration_n if_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o divine_a institution_n to_o admit_v of_o approve_a christian_n lawful_o baptize_v walk_v in_o the_o faith_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o partaker_n of_o church_n privilege_n among_o we_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n or_o their_o child_n to_o baptism_n because_o they_o be_v not_o enter_v into_o church-fellowship_n according_a to_o your_o order_n than_o it_o be_v unlawful_a though_o no_o such_o evil_a consequence_n be_v to_o be_v fear_v but_o if_o by_o accident_n some_o abuse_n shall_v fall_v out_o the_o evil_a be_v to_o be_v prevent_v by_o all_o lawful_a mean_n but_o the_o faithful_a be_v not_o to_o be_v debar_v utter_o of_o the_o order_n of_o god_n whereto_o they_o have_v right_a and_o title_n by_o his_o free_a grant_n and_o gracious_a institution_n answ_n we_o can_v but_o still_o complain_v of_o this_o liberty_n which_o be_v take_v in_o change_v the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n first_o that_o clause_n member_n of_o visible_a church_n be_v not_o in_o the_o poâ—…ition_n nor_o be_v it_o maintain_v by_o we_o in_o that_o sense_n neither_o do_v we_o limit_v church-fellowship_n to_o our_o order_n as_o it_o be_v call_v but_o acknowledge_v church_n defective_a in_o matter_n of_o order_n as_o be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o apparent_a wrong_n to_o we_o and_o to_o the_o reader_n so_o oft_o to_o put_v in_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v not_o in_o the_o controversy_n second_o if_o it_o be_v unlawful_a by_o divine_a institution_n may_v not_o evil_a consequence_n be_v add_v and_o if_o both_o hold_n be_v not_o our_o reason_n the_o more_o strong_a what_o need_v then_o such_o a_o reply_n three_o we_o have_v oft_o grant_v a_o remote_a right_n but_o next_o and_o immediate_a we_o still_o deny_v and_o we_o conceive_v no_o other_o order_n of_o god_n in_o his_o church_n to_o prevent_v such_o evil_n then_o by_o join_v to_o the_o institute_v church_n of_o christ_n reply_n seal_n may_v be_v profane_v when_o the_o dispenser_n can_v help_v it_o but_o here_o be_v no_o fear_n or_o danger_n of_o such_o consequence_n necessary_a to_o follow_v for_o we_o speak_v not_o of_o all_o sort_n at_o random_n but_o of_o christian_n profess_v the_o faith_n entire_o lawful_o baptize_v know_v and_o approve_v to_o the_o wise_a and_o judicious_a visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n among_o we_o sufficient_o know_v to_o you_o or_o orderly_o recommend_v etc._n etc._n answ_n the_o fear_n and_o danger_n in_o this_o case_n be_v more_o than_o so_o far_o off_o can_v easy_o be_v discern_v though_o the_o limitation_n be_v good_a in_o themselves_o yet_o the_o application_n of_o this_o description_n in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o it_o will_v open_v a_o door_n wide_a than_o many_o can_v imagine_v for_o many_o such_o in_o the_o judgement_n even_o of_o the_o wise_a come_v into_o this_o state_n of_o temptation_n prove_v far_o otherwise_o even_o yourselves_o be_v judge_n if_o you_o be_v here_o we_o suppose_v the_o experience_n of_o the_o discovery_n god_n have_v make_v in_o these_o late_a trial_n of_o england_n among_o forward_a professor_n will_v teach_v our_o brethren_n to_o consider_v how_o many_o professor_n may_v prove_v here_o yet_o second_o if_o you_o add_v such_o as_o retain_v their_o membership_n in_o your_o church_n be_v recommend_v unto_o we_o by_o your_o church_n or_o by_o know_a godly_a minister_n we_o can_v then_o according_a to_o order_n receive_v they_o and_o avoid_v the_o confusion_n and_o inconvenience_n we_o object_v three_o if_o also_o it_o be_v take_v into_o the_o description_n know_v and_o sufficient_o approve_v of_o ourselves_o than_o the_o door_n be_v open_a to_o they_o to_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o though_o they_o can_v settle_v in_o the_o place_n of_o their_o present_a abode_n and_o this_o way_n of_o order_n will_v prevent_v the_o inconvenience_n but_o if_o we_o come_v to_o put_v a_o difference_n any_o other_o way_n we_o can_v avoid_v it_o but_o great_a offence_n will_v be_v give_v to_o many_o and_o the_o inconvenience_n object_v in_o some_o degree_n at_o least_o will_v follow_v here_o with_o we_o and_o it_o may_v be_v much_o more_o in_o some_o other_o place_n reply_n you_o profess_v high_a respect_n to_o your_o brethren_n in_o old_a england_n but_o it_o seem_v you_o judge_v they_o insufficient_a to_o give_v you_o orderly_a testimony_n of_o the_o sincerity_n of_o approve_a christian_n well_o know_v and_o live_v among_o they_o which_o two_o can_v well_o agree_v answ_n this_o position_n hold_v forth_o no_o such_o judgement_n of_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o our_o brethren_n in_o the_o case_n neither_o have_v we_o show_v it_o by_o reject_v such_o orderly_a testimony_n that_o we_o know_v reply_n we_o speak_v not_o of_o such_o who_o against_o light_n refuse_v to_o profess_v subjection_n to_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n or_o to_o join_v to_o some_o approve_a church_n etc._n etc._n answ_n neither_o do_v we_o impute_v that_o to_o all_o that_o join_v not_o unto_o we_o but_o our_o meaning_n be_v that_o under_o such_o a_o
english_a church_n and_o we_o deny_v not_o the_o same_o in_o a_o orderly_a way_n as_o they_o also_o require_v testimony_n of_o their_o piety_n if_o any_o do_v but_o present_a a_o child_n to_o baptism_n in_o their_o church_n we_o have_v often_o profess_v this_o and_o by_o your_o own_o grant_n most_o of_o the_o approve_a christian_n among_o we_o be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o english_a church_n have_v renounce_v their_o right_n of_o membership_n and_o commuion_n with_o the_o church_n they_o be_v of_o there_o reply_n three_o this_o order_n be_v observe_v by_o they_o to_o prevent_v the_o imposture_n of_o some_o that_o pretend_v to_o the_o english_a they_o be_v join_v to_o the_o stranger_n &_o contra_fw-la answ_n this_o be_v not_o the_o only_a reason_n of_o their_o order_n for_o his_o word_n be_v all_o stranger_n do_v not_o join_v themselves_o to_o our_o church_n yea_o there_o be_v those_o that_o avoid_v all_o church_n etc._n etc._n which_o plain_o show_v they_o look_v further_a than_o such_o according_a to_o our_o practice_n even_o their_o own_o country_n man_n flee_v for_o religion_n as_o we_o be_v they_o yet_o receive_v they_o not_o till_o by_o public_a profession_n of_o faith_n and_o subjection_n to_o discipline_n they_o join_v themselves_o to_o some_o congregationall_a church_n second_o this_o show_v what_o disorder_n and_o abuse_v of_o ordinance_n will_v follow_v from_o such_o a_o liberty_n to_o admit_v such_o as_o be_v not_o join_v to_o some_o church_n for_o by_o this_o mean_v many_o will_v neglect_v all_o order_n and_o discipline_n if_o they_o may_v but_o have_v the_o seal_n three_o to_o put_v all_o out_o of_o question_n that_o their_o practice_n and_o judgement_n in_o effect_n be_v the_o same_o with_o we_o in_o this_o point_n note_v the_o first_o question_n propound_v by_o they_o be_v these_o infant_n which_o you_o offer_v the_o seed_n of_o this_o church_n that_o they_o may_v lawful_o be_v here_o baptize_v by_o our_o ministry_n chap._n xiii_o thus_o far_o we_o have_v answer_v to_o the_o reply_v make_v to_o the_o consideration_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o 3._o and_o 4._o position_n now_o whereas_o we_o take_v notice_n of_o three_o objection_n against_o our_o first_o consideration_n and_o answer_v the_o same_o it_o please_v the_o learned_a author_n to_o take_v up_o only_o two_o of_o they_o and_o with_o much_o enlargement_n to_o urge_v the_o same_o as_o his_o reason_n against_o the_o position_n and_o to_o apply_v our_o answer_n thereunto_o by_o which_o mean_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n brief_o set_v down_o may_v seem_v not_o so_o apt_a and_o full_a here_o as_o they_o will_v appear_v in_o their_o proper_a place_n and_o therefore_o it_o will_v be_v needful_a for_o we_o to_o enlarge_v ourselves_o somewhat_o in_o answer_v some_o passage_n at_o least_o in_o the_o reason_n as_o they_o be_v here_o propound_v before_o we_o come_v to_o the_o reply_n reply_n reason_n 1._o that_o sacred_a order_n god_n have_v set_v in_o his_o visible_a church_n etc._n etc._n answ_n these_o word_n with_o all_o that_o follow_v whatever_o they_o may_v seem_v to_o carry_v with_o they_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o bare_a denial_n of_o the_o position_n in_o variety_n of_o expression_n reply_n for_o first_o the_o baptism_n of_o john_n be_v true_a baptism_n etc._n etc._n but_o he_o never_o demand_v of_o those_o he_o receive_v whether_o they_o be_v enter_v into_o church_n covenant_n etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o we_o have_v in_o substance_n before_o and_o be_v answer_v with_o all_o the_o other_o instance_n in_o this_o first_o reason_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o reply_n to_o the_o first_o consideration_n and_o in_o other_o place_n and_o therefore_o in_o vain_a here_o to_o repeat_v the_o same_o and_o we_o have_v observe_v more_o than_o once_o your_o plain_a confession_n that_o the_o apostle_n constitute_v church_n by_o baptism_n even_o such_o church_n as_o they_o set_v elder_n in_o by_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n reply_n the_o second_o reason_n in_o substance_n be_v this_o because_o from_o christ_n and_o the_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n we_o learn_v that_o such_o as_o be_v call_v of_o god_n receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n believe_v in_o the_o lord_n profess_v their_o faith_n in_o he_o with_o repentance_n and_o amendment_n of_o life_n have_v a_o right_n to_o baptism_n and_o desire_v it_o be_v wrong_v if_o they_o be_v deprive_v thereof_o answ_n we_o grant_v the_o whole_a but_o as_o it_o be_v suppose_v in_o due_a order_n they_o must_v receive_v it_o so_o we_o desire_v no_o more_o for_o we_o grant_v upon_o these_o common_a ground_n such_o have_v jus_o ad_fw-la rem_fw-la but_o not_o jus_o in_o re_fw-mi and_o the_o immediate_a fruition_n of_o they_o reply_n three_o by_o a_o lively_a faith_n a_o man_n have_v internal_a communion_n with_o christ_n by_o profession_n of_o the_o entire_a faith_n join_v with_o conformity_n of_o life_n in_o righteousness_n holiness_n and_o fellowship_n of_o love_n he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a congregation_n or_o flock_n of_o christ_n though_o no_o set_a member_n of_o a_o free_a independent_a society_n and_o baptism_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n into_o the_o flock_n of_o christ_n not_o ever_o more_o but_o by_o accident_n of_o our_o receive_n into_o a_o particular_a congregation_n answ_n this_o reason_n stand_v upon_o such_o a_o sense_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o can_v be_v find_v and_o it_o be_v before_o confess_v that_o the_o catholic_n church_n consist_v of_o all_o true_a particular_a church_n as_o the_o part_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o how_o can_v a_o man_n be_v visible_o a_o member_n of_o the_o whole_a and_o belong_v to_o no_o part_n thereof_o second_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o such_o have_v a_o right_a to_o be_v in_o the_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o to_o baptism_n and_o all_o ordinance_n but_o as_o by_o such_o profession_n they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n so_o neither_o have_v they_o immediate_a right_n to_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o without_o admittance_n into_o the_o same_o fit_a matter_n such_o be_v for_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n that_o profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n etc._n etc._n but_o it_o do_v not_o admit_v they_o actual_o thereunto_o and_o your_o own_o expression_n secret_o imply_v as_o much_o when_o you_o say_v baptism_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n into_o the_o church_n or_o flock_n of_o christ_n if_o baptism_n be_v the_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n than_o there_o be_v a_o admission_n thereunto_o before_o baptism_n but_o who_o do_v admit_v and_o where_o and_o when_o be_v any_o admit_v to_o the_o church_n but_o in_o particular_a congregation_n can_v any_o be_v admit_v into_o a_o church_n that_o whole_a church_n be_v ignorant_a thereof_o but_o a_o man_n may_v profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n and_o live_v according_o among_o the_o heathen_a where_o neither_o any_o church_n nor_o member_n of_o it_o take_v knowledge_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o bare_a profession_n do_v not_o admit_v man_n but_o make_v they_o fit_a to_o be_v receive_v and_o admit_v into_o the_o visible_a church_n your_o four_o reason_n we_o have_v have_v twice_o before_o and_o answer_v the_o same_o reply_n to_o our_o answer_n of_o the_o first_o objection_n from_o the_o instance_n of_o the_o centurion_n lydia_n the_o jailor_n and_o the_o eâ—…nuch_n first_o if_o where_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v give_v and_o receive_v and_o faith_n profess_v according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n there_o none_o may_v hinder_v from_o be_v baptize_v scil_n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptize_v they_o then_o either_o such_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n or_o baptism_n be_v not_o a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n than_o it_o be_v not_o essential_a to_o baptism_n in_o the_o first_o institution_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v dispense_v to_o none_o but_o member_n of_o a_o congregationall_a assembly_n answ_n it_o be_v free_o grant_v first_o that_o baptism_n be_v a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n second_o that_o such_o as_o profess_v the_o faith_n and_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n if_o by_o church_n â—…ee_v mean_v the_o church_n mystical_a consider_v as_o visible_a though_o not_o always_o political_a three_o that_o these_o may_v receive_v baptism_n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptize_v they_o but_o immediate_o to_o baptize_v they_o none_o have_v power_n but_o by_o a_o extraordinary_a call_n of_o god_n so_o to_o do_v as_o have_v be_v former_o show_v but_o it_o will_v not_o hence_o follow_v that_o ordinary_a officer_n have_v such_o a_o power_n want_v such_o extraordinary_a call_n because_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a have_v right_o unto_o the_o seal_n yet_o the_o immediate_a fruition_n of_o they_o they_o must_v have_v by_o ordinary_a officer_n in_o a_o political_a body_n the_o only_a
a_o defence_n of_o the_o answer_n make_v unto_o the_o nine_o question_n or_o position_n send_v from_o new-england_n against_o the_o reply_n thereto_o by_o that_o reverend_a servant_n of_o christ_n mr._n john_n ball_n entitle_v a_o trial_n of_o the_o new_a churchway_n in_o new-england_n and_o in_o old_a wherein_o beside_o a_o more_o full_a open_n of_o sundry_a particular_n concern_v liturgy_n power_n of_o the_o key_n matter_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n etc._n etc._n be_v more_o large_o handle_v that_o controversy_n concern_v the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n tend_v to_o clear_v up_o the_o old-way_n of_o christ_n in_o new-england_n church_n by_o john_n allin_n pastor_n of_o dedham_n tho._n shepard_n pastor_n of_o cambridge_n in_o new-england_n veritas_fw-la nihil_fw-la crubescit_fw-la praeterquam_fw-la abscondi_fw-la tertul._n sua_fw-la silentia_fw-la amat_fw-la spiritus_fw-la per_fw-la quae_fw-la nobis_fw-la illabitur_fw-la seque_fw-la insinuat_fw-la cupidis_fw-la non_fw-la gloriae_fw-la sed_fw-la cognoscendae_fw-la veritatis_fw-la melanct._n let_v the_o blessing_n come_v upon_o the_o head_n of_o joseph_n and_o upon_o the_o top_n of_o the_o head_n of_o he_o that_o be_v separate_v from_o his_o brethren_n deut._n 33.16_o london_n print_v by_o r._n cotes_n for_o andrew_n crook_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o the_o green_a dragon_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n 1648._o the_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n it_o be_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n before_o pilate_n when_o he_o question_v with_o he_o about_o his_o kingdom_n john_n 18.37_o that_o for_o this_o cause_n he_o be_v bear_v and_o come_v into_o the_o world_n to_o bear_v witness_n of_o the_o truth_n many_o truth_n about_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n have_v he_o impart_v to_o we_o if_o therefore_o we_o be_v bear_v into_o the_o world_n or_o send_v into_o this_o wilderness_n to_o bear_v witness_n to_o his_o truth_n it_o be_v unto_o we_o reward_v sufficient_a that_o we_o shall_v be_v witness_n thereunto_o even_o to_o the_o utmost_a part_n of_o the_o earth_n we_o confess_v we_o have_v be_v too_o slow_a in_o this_o service_n of_o christ_n not_o have_v to_o this_o day_n set_v forth_o a_o unanimous_a confession_n of_o that_o form_n of_o wholesome_a word_n which_o be_v preach_v receive_v and_o profess_v in_o these_o church_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o which_o we_o be_v not_o unmindful_a of_o though_o our_o distance_n and_o other_o difficulty_n may_v delay_v the_o opportunity_n but_o this_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o profess_v in_o general_a that_o so_o far_o as_o we_o know_v there_o be_v the_o same_o bless_a spirit_n of_o truth_n breathe_v in_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o country_n the_o same_o faith_n embrace_v and_o profess_v in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v general_o receive_v as_o the_o orthodox_n doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n and_o particular_o by_o our_o godly_a learned_a brethren_n of_o england_n and_o scotland_n and_o though_o error_n have_v spring_v up_o among_o we_o and_o some_o be_v go_v out_o from_o we_o that_o we_o fear_v be_v not_o of_o we_o yet_o we_o have_v bear_v witness_n against_o they_o and_o by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n by_o the_o breath_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o mouth_n of_o his_o servant_n they_o have_v be_v blast_v neither_o do_v we_o understand_v that_o these_o church_n be_v accuse_v of_o any_o error_n about_o the_o save_a truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o therefore_o we_o think_v ourselves_o not_o so_o much_o call_v of_o god_n to_o such_o a_o confession_n at_o present_a as_o to_o clear_v up_o to_o the_o world_n those_o truth_n we_o profess_v about_o the_o kingdom_n and_o government_n of_o christ_n in_o his_o church_n which_o be_v the_o great_a work_n of_o this_o age_n and_o of_o this_o nick_n of_o time_n and_o yet_o here_o also_o we_o fear_v that_o we_o have_v be_v too_o slack_a for_o though_o it_o be_v say_v we_o be_v the_o volunteer_n such_o as_o cry_v up_o this_o way_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o it_o seem_v we_o be_v apprehend_v to_o be_v one_o cause_n of_o these_o present_a difference_n yet_o if_o thing_n be_v well_o weigh_v we_o may_v seem_v rather_o to_o be_v far_o behind_o in_o the_o duty_n that_o lie_v upon_o we_o indeed_o some_o brief_a answer_n send_v over_o to_o some_o particular_a person_n to_o satisfy_v brethren_n what_o our_o practice_n be_v with_o some_o brief_a touch_n of_o our_o reason_n rather_o then_o to_o discâ—…sse_v those_o point_n have_v be_v print_v by_o some_o without_o our_o knowledge_n or_o assent_v upon_o what_o ground_n they_o best_o know_v and_o some_o short_a treatise_n by_o some_o reverend_a brethren_n have_v be_v publish_v to_o declare_v their_o affectionate_a desire_n of_o the_o unanimous_a endeavour_n of_o all_o our_o dear_a brethren_n for_o a_o general_a and_o holy_a reformation_n but_o what_o have_v be_v say_v or_o do_v that_o either_o may_v just_o offend_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o godly_a provoke_v their_o spirit_n disunite_v their_o affection_n or_o hinder_v a_o godly_a reformation_n yea_o we_o have_v be_v too_o slow_a to_o clear_v our_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n from_o the_o many_o objection_n harsh_a interpretation_n and_o manifold_a crimination_n cast_v upon_o the_o same_o wherein_o we_o fear_v our_o loathness_n to_o intermeddle_v in_o these_o controversy_n for_o fear_n of_o make_v the_o breach_n wide_o among_o brethren_n and_o our_o desire_n rather_o to_o attend_v what_o light_n we_o may_v receive_v from_o other_o in_o these_o point_n wherein_o we_o profess_v ourselves_o seeker_n after_o the_o truth_n have_v make_v we_o guilty_a of_o neglect_n in_o this_o our_o duty_n but_o now_o we_o see_v ourselves_o press_v hereto_o by_o a_o necessity_n of_o justify_v our_o way_n against_o the_o many_o aspersion_n cast_v upon_o they_o as_o well_o as_o against_o the_o reason_n use_v against_o they_o for_o we_o perceive_v by_o the_o first_o letter_n of_o our_o brethren_n how_o the_o withdraw_a of_o christian_n from_o the_o liturgy_n be_v impute_v to_o we_o and_o by_o this_o reply_n both_o in_o the_o epistle_n and_o divers_a passage_n we_o can_v but_o see_v what_o apprehension_n be_v raise_v of_o we_o yea_o many_o be_v apt_a to_o think_v that_o if_o we_o have_v say_v nothing_o yet_o our_o very_a act_n in_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o our_o dear_a native_a country_n and_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n there_o together_o with_o the_o practice_n of_o these_o church_n think_v to_o be_v so_o different_a from_o the_o reform_a church_n have_v be_v not_o only_o a_o great_a weaken_n to_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o godly_a that_o have_v stand_v by_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n but_o also_o have_v cause_v great_a disturbance_n to_o the_o reformation_n in_o hand_n to_o which_o much_o may_v be_v say_v but_o that_o we_o shall_v exceed_v the_o bound_n of_o a_o epistle_n yet_o let_v we_o entreat_v all_o the_o godly_a wise_a to_o consider_v and_o look_v back_o upon_o the-season_n of_o this_o great_a enterprise_n undertake_v by_o we_o and_o the_o manner_n of_o our_o proceed_n in_o it_o with_o the_o admirable_a work_n of_o god_n providence_n first_o and_o last_o about_o it_o and_o we_o think_v though_o we_o be_v silent_a they_o may_v easy_o satisfy_v themselves_o whether_o this_o be_v of_o god_n or_o man_n a_o sinful_a neglect_n of_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n or_o a_o manifest_a attestation_n to_o the_o truth_n by_o open_a profession_n against_o corruption_n of_o worship_n in_o use_n and_o for_o the_o necessity_n of_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o confirm_v by_o no_o small_a degree_n of_o suffering_n for_o the_o same_o for_o be_v it_o not_o a_o time_n when_o humane_a worship_n and_o invention_n be_v grow_v to_o such_o a_o intolerable_a height_n that_o the_o conscience_n of_o god_n saint_n and_o servant_n enlighten_v in_o the_o truth_n can_v no_o long_o bear_v they_o be_v not_o the_o power_n of_o the_o tyrannical_a prelate_n so_o great_a that_o like_o a_o strong_a current_n carry_v all_o down_o stream_n before_o it_o what_o ever_o be_v from_o the_o law_n or_o otherwise_o set_v in_o their_o way_n do_v not_o the_o heart_n of_o man_n general_o fail_v they_o where_o be_v the_o people_n to_o be_v find_v that_o will_v cleave_v to_o their_o godly_a minister_n in_o their_o suffering_n but_o rather_o think_v it_o their_o discretion_n to_o provide_v for_o their_o own_o quiet_a and_o safety_n yea_o when_o some_o free_o in_o zeal_n of_o the_o truth_n preach_v or_o profess_v against_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o time_n do_v not_o some_o take_v offence_n at_o it_o judge_v it_o rashness_n and_o to_o be_v against_o all_o rule_n of_o discretion_n who_o since_o be_v ready_a to_o censure_v we_o for_o desert_v the_o cause_n many_o then_o think_v it_o be_v a_o evil_a time_n the_o prudent_a shall_v hold_v their_o peace_n and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v this_o be_v not_o
answer_n we_o have_v study_v not_o only_o to_o answer_v to_o the_o reply_n but_o have_v take_v in_o what_o sundry_a other_o godly_a learned_a object_n against_o our_o principle_n but_o without_o mention_v scarce_o any_o time_n their_o name_n of_o which_o we_o be_v spare_v for_o no_o other_o reason_n but_o because_o we_o honour_v the_o man_n from_o our_o very_a heart_n and_o can_v wish_v though_o different_o mind_v from_o we_o in_o some_o thing_n as_o melanchthon_n do_v in_o another_o the_o like_a case_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o bosom_n the_o name_n of_o this_o servant_n of_o christ_n now_o asleep_a be_v a_o ointment_n pour_v out_o and_o precious_a to_o we_o we_o can_v therefore_o have_v wish_v it_o our_o portion_n to_o have_v answer_v the_o book_n without_o the_o least_o reflect_v upon_o he_o but_o the_o necessity_n herein_o be_v unavoidable_a this_o only_a we_o add_v that_o whatever_o weakness_n may_v pass_v from_o we_o let_v they_o not_o be_v impute_v to_o those_o servant_n of_o christ_n that_o set_v we_o on_o work_n and_o have_v want_v leisure_n to_o review_v what_o be_v here_o do_v every_o one_o may_v not_o be_v in_o all_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o mind_n with_o we_o for_o they_o may_v meet_v we_o in_o the_o same_o end_n though_o they_o use_v not_o the_o same_o argument_n or_o become_v follower_n of_o we_o in_o the_o same_o path_n yet_o we_o know_v we_o be_v not_o alone_o in_o any_o thing_n but_o may_v safe_o say_v this_o much_o that_o what_o be_v here_o defend_v be_v general_o acknowledge_v and_o receive_v in_o these_o church_n of_o christ_n a_o defence_n of_o the_o nine_o position_n chap._n i._n concern_v the_o title_n whereas_o it_o be_v call_v a_o new_a churchway_n we_o little_o expect_v that_o brethren_n studious_a of_o reformation_n who_o have_v be_v so_o exercise_v with_o imputation_n of_o novelty_n will_v have_v so_o ready_o and_o in_o the_o frontispiece_n cast_v the_o same_o upon_o we_o who_o with_o they_o desire_v to_o walk_v in_o 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junius_n in_o a_o case_n not_o unlike_a ut_fw-la cunque_fw-la nâ—…vam_fw-la esse_fw-la videâ—…tur_fw-la 〈◊〉_d quaecunque_fw-la sunt_fw-la vetera_fw-la 6._o fuerunt_fw-la nova_fw-la ac_fw-la non_fw-la propterâ—…a_fw-la nouâ—…tatâ—â—_n nomine_fw-la vitiosa_fw-la nisi_fw-la forte_fw-fr novam_fw-la pro_fw-la renovatâ_fw-la &_o restitutâ_fw-la accipitis_fw-la quo_fw-la sensuâ—…_n novam_fw-la esse_fw-la hanc_fw-la viam_fw-la agnosciâ—â—â—_n one_o thing_n more_o in_o the_o title_n page_n the_o reader_n be_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o that_o whereas_o it_o be_v say_v this_o treatise_n of_o mr._n ball_n be_v pen_v a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n and_o send_v over_o 1637._o it_o seem_v to_o be_v a_o mistake_n of_o the_o printer_n for_o the_o nine_o question_n themselves_o be_v send_v over_o 1636_o the_o answer_n return_v 38_o but_o miscarry_v another_o be_v send_v 39_o from_o which_o time_n we_o longing_o expect_v a_o return_n but_o partly_o for_o the_o reason_n render_v in_o the_o epistle_n and_o what_o else_o we_o know_v not_o we_o never_o in_o so_o many_o year_n receive_v any_o till_o this_o print_a reply_n by_o a_o friend_n mean_n come_v occasional_o to_o our_o hand_n 1644._o concern_v the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n whereas_o the_o publisher_n of_o this_o treatise_n impute_v unto_o we_o or_o some_o relate_v to_o our_o cause_n that_o we_o be_v the_o volunteer_n such_o as_o cry_v up_o this_o way_n and_o forward_o to_o blow_v such_o thing_n abroad_o in_o the_o world_n which_o press_v they_o to_o make_v this_o controversy_n public_a 1_o we_o may_v true_o profess_v before_o the_o world_n that_o our_o epistle_n send_v with_o our_o former_a answer_n proceed_v from_o a_o spirit_n of_o love_n and_o peace_n with_o a_o humble_a willingness_n to_o receive_v further_a light_n by_o the_o holy_a and_o just_a animadversion_n of_o our_o reverend_a and_o belâ—â—â—d_a brethren_n which_o we_o earnest_o expect_v as_o man_n 〈…〉_z after_o the_o truth_n 2_o that_o we_o be_v altogether_o ignorant_a of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o that_o our_o answer_n and_o in_o that_o it_o be_v publish_v then_o be_v not_o without_o our_o utter_a dislike_n we_o have_v neither_o sound_v trumpet_n nor_o strike_v up_o drum_n to_o any_o if_o any_o such_o volunteer_n we_o hearty_o grieve_v that_o there_o be_v any_o difference_n between_o brethren_n much_o more_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v publish_v most_o of_o all_o if_o before_o they_o be_v private_o debate_v and_o bring_v to_o some_o head_n by_o mutual_a consent_n be_v think_v fit_a to_o be_v send_v out_o to_o public_a consideration_n 3_o for_o our_o brethren_n in_o england_n we_o know_v no_o reason_n to_o question_v the_o truth_n of_o that_o apology_n of_o our_o brother_n mr._n thomas_n weld_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o w._n r._n pag._n 2._o obj._n 3_o answ_n 1._o where_o he_o profess_v in_o the_o name_n of_o himself_o and_o other_o of_o our_o way_n a_o loathness_n to_o appear_v in_o the_o case_n and_o that_o although_o they_o have_v book_n of_o this_o subject_a ready_a for_o the_o press_n yet_o by_o joint_a consent_n they_o suppress_v they_o happy_o to_o the_o detriment_n of_o the_o cause_n be_v unwilling_a to_o blow_v a_o fire_n and_o whether_o they_o appear_v in_o pulpit_n or_o press_n without_o instigation_n and_o how_o spare_o he_o appeal_v to_o all_o the_o godly_a to_o judge_v 4_o last_o we_o desire_v our_o brethren_n to_o consider_v the_o date_n of_o mr._n ball_n his_o book_n print_v for_o stint_a liturgy_n one_o chief_a part_n of_o this_o controversy_n and_o the_o print_a answer_n to_o the_o nine_o question_n and_o let_v that_o resolve_v the_o question_n who_o of_o we_o come_v first_o volunteer_n into_o the_o field_n and_o if_o any_o through_o weakness_n or_o zeal_n without_o knowledge_n have_v be_v too_o clamorous_a to_o cry_v up_o new-england_n way_n with_o reproach_n to_o other_o we_o desire_v the_o world_n to_o take_v notice_n that_o they_o have_v neither_o patent_n nor_o pattern_n from_o we_o so_o to_o do_v who_o 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believe_v but_o he_o give_v new_a matter_n of_o new_a affection_n in_o prayer_n daily_o 2_o if_o by_o set_v form_n of_o catechism_n and_o confession_n be_v mean_v according_a to_o the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n stint_v form_n like_o stint_a liturgy_n i._n e._n beyond_o or_o short_a of_o which_o minister_n may_v not_o teach_v or_o christian_n believe_v and_o profess_v than_o we_o shall_v say_v the_o same_o of_o these_o as_o we_o do_v of_o stint_a form_n of_o prayer_n we_o confess_v there_o be_v danger_n in_o cast_v by_o all_o form_n of_o confession_n and_o catechism_n lest_o through_o the_o instability_n of_o ungrounded_a and_o heady_a man_n pretend_v new_a light_n or_o search_v after_o further_a light_n the_o church_n adhere_v to_o nothing_o and_o their_o faith_n as_o the_o learned_a leyden_n professor_n term_v it_o become_v fides_fw-la horaria_fw-la or_o menstrua_fw-la the_o faith_n of_o a_o hour_n or_o month_n and_o then_o cast_v it_o off_o the_o next_o and_o on_o the_o other_o 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therefore_o such_o may_v be_v use_v as_o he_o have_v leave_v yet_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o impose_v some_o of_o these_o at_o least_o to_o be_v use_v always_o and_o only_o in_o his_o church_n much_o less_o do_v he_o allow_v any_o man_n to_o impose_v their_o own_o form_n upon_o his_o church_n or_o conform_v to_o such_o as_o be_v tyrannous_o impose_v reply_n three_o advert_v we_o have_v not_o call_v you_o at_o this_o time_n to_o witness_v for_o or_o against_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o common-prayer-book_n this_o you_o fall_v upon_o by_o strain_v the_o sense_n of_o our_o demand_n answ_n we_o have_v speak_v to_o this_o before_o and_o we_o think_v whatsoever_o your_o intent_n and_o desire_n be_v yet_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o the_o case_n itself_o give_v we_o a_o just_a call_v to_o testify_v against_o it_o especial_o see_v the_o corruption_n then_o increase_v in_o england_n and_o the_o imposition_n be_v more_o rigid_a and_o violent_a reply_n the_o reason_n you_o bring_v 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the_o word_n be_v baptize_v but_o withal_o that_o they_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n and_o such_o a_o church_n as_o continue_v steadfast_o in_o the_o fellowship_n etc._n etc._n of_o the_o apostle_n likewise_o verse_n 47._o that_o the_o conversion_n and_o baptise_v of_o disciple_n be_v omit_v the_o join_n or_o add_v to_o the_o church_n be_v put_v in_o the_o stead_n thereof_o which_o proof_n as_o they_o be_v omit_v whole_o in_o the_o print_a copy_n so_o also_o you_o make_v no_o reply_n unto_o they_o second_o by_o these_o proof_n it_o may_v easy_o have_v be_v see_v that_o we_o do_v not_o look_v upon_o all_o the_o apostle_n act_n in_o this_o case_n of_o baptism_n as_o extraordinary_a but_o that_o their_o first_o and_o lead_v example_n be_v ordinary_a and_o in_o that_o order_n we_o plead_v for_o which_o if_o it_o have_v be_v regard_v much_o labour_n have_v be_v save_v in_o this_o dispute_n which_o have_v be_v spend_v to_o little_a purpose_n and_o our_o second_o reason_n reply_n in_o 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this_o may_v answer_v the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o reply_n about_o rom._n 4.11_o as_o also_o all_o the_o rest_n which_o follow_v be_v thing_n so_o oft_o repeat_v and_o answer_v before_o as_o make_v it_o tedious_a to_o all_o chap._n xiiii_o position_n 5._o that_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v so_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n shall_v allow_v must_v be_v do_v though_o the_o pastor_n and_o governor_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o assembly_n be_v of_o another_o mind_n and_o that_o peradventure_o upon_o more_o substantial_a reason_n reply_n this_o question_n be_v much_o mistake_v for_o the_o demand_n be_v not_o whether_o in_o the_o congregation_n matter_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o you_o interpret_v the_o position_n but_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n so_o lie_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n as_o that_o sentence_n must_v proceed_v in_o externo_fw-la foro_fw-la according_a to_o the_o vote_n and_o determination_n of_o the_o major_a part_n and_o so_o in_o admission_n of_o member_n etc._n etc._n and_o though_o they_o have_v no_o power_n against_o god_n but_o for_o god_n yet_o in_o execution_n of_o that_o power_n they_o may_v be_v divide_v in_o judgement_n and_o one_o part_n must_v errâ—…_n now_o hence_o the_o question_n be_v move_v whether_o the_o power_n be_v so_o in_o the_o people_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n determine_v must_v stand_v answ_n if_o our_o whole_a answer_n have_v be_v attend_v unto_o it_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o full_a that_o it_o can_v not_o with_o any_o show_n of_o reason_n be_v subject_a to_o such_o a_o mistake_n to_o omit_v the_o first_o part_n of_o our_o answer_n affirmative_o wherein_o we_o cite_v mr._n parker_n as_o consent_v with_o he_o in_o the_o second_o part_n to_o the_o position_n as_o state_v our_o answer_n be_v plain_o negative_a that_o excommunication_n be_v not_o so_o seat_v neither_o aught_o to_o be_v 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with_o the_o separation_n upon_o what_o ground_n it_o be_v not_o say_v nor_o can_v we_o apprehend_v that_o neither_o our_o flat_a negation_n of_o the_o position_n nor_o our_o reference_n to_o mr._n parker_n as_o concur_v with_o he_o shall_v give_v he_o any_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o contrary_n but_o if_o that_o be_v the_o judgement_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o separation_n which_o be_v here_o impute_v unto_o they_o viz._n that_o the_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o the_o key_n be_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o what_o the_o officer_n do_v therein_o be_v but_o as_o servant_n of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o they_o derive_v their_o authority_n if_o our_o profession_n may_v be_v of_o any_o use_n to_o satisfy_v we_o do_v free_o and_o hearty_o profess_v to_o the_o contrary_a
that_o of_o ananias_n and_o saphira_n where_o god_n have_v not_o bind_v they_o to_o debar_v approve_a christian_n from_o the_o seal_n because_o they_o can_v promise_v as_o settle_a member_n to_o abide_v in_o the_o society_n and_o yet_o charge_v they_o as_o man_n that_o against_o light_n refuse_v subjection_n to_o the_o gospel_n this_o be_v that_o which_o we_o can_v approve_v which_o yet_o we_o suspect_v will_v follow_v from_o your_o judgement_n and_o desire_v to_o be_v resolve_v in_o your_o practice_n answ_n here_o be_v a_o great_a heap_n of_o heavy_a crimination_n gather_v together_o and_o cast_v upon_o we_o upon_o very_o weak_a ground_n upon_o mistake_n suspicion_n and_o we_o fear_v too_o much_o credulity_n give_v to_o some_o clamorous_a person_n return_v to_o england_n and_o too_o little_a credit_n give_v to_o our_o true_a relation_n and_o faithful_a profession_n most_o of_o these_o have_v be_v clear_v in_o the_o former_a passage_n where_o we_o meet_v with_o they_o and_o we_o marvel_v how_o they_o come_v in_o so_o twist_v together_o here_o again_o we_o shall_v here_o only_o clear_v ourselves_o of_o the_o first_o and_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o their_o proper_a place_n to_o see_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o other_o here_o it_o be_v impute_v unto_o we_o that_o we_o have_v devise_v a_o rite_n to_o preserve_v the_o unity_n and_o prevent_v the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o body_n which_o we_o conceive_v be_v intend_v of_o this_o promise_n of_o not_o removal_n without_o leave_n which_o promise_n be_v not_o require_v of_o we_o nor_o make_v in_o our_o church_n covenant_n as_o we_o have_v say_v and_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o imputation_n be_v also_o a_o mere_a mistake_n arise_v from_o the_o confound_a of_o a_o second_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n against_o our_o first_o reason_n with_o the_o second_o reason_n of_o our_o practice_n which_o be_v distinct_a and_o have_v a_o different_a scope_n for_o whereas_o some_o may_v object_v that_o this_o reason_n from_o the_o covenant_n hold_v with_o such_o as_o grant_v such_o a_o covenant_n lawful_a the_o answer_n say_v that_o some_o indeed_o question_v the_o necessity_n of_o it_o but_o we_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o question_v the_o lawfulness_n and_o thereupon_o the_o answer_n first_o give_v reason_n and_o proof_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o it_o and_o second_o for_o the_o necessity_n which_o be_v take_v from_o the_o nature_n of_o all_o society_n incorporate_v which_o by_o a_o fundamental_a rule_n do_v require_v of_o all_o that_o enter_v into_o they_o and_o partake_v of_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o to_o conform_v to_o all_o such_o lawful_a rite_n and_o order_n as_o be_v expedient_a for_o the_o well_o be_v of_o that_o society_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o will_v be_v injurious_a to_o he_o to_o offer_v and_o confusion_n in_o they_o to_o accept_v and_o from_o hence_o it_o easy_o follow_v that_o a_o church_n be_v a_o body_n of_o a_o people_n enjoy_v privilege_n together_o it_o be_v necessary_a fundamental_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v join_v in_o some_o promise_n or_o covenant_n which_o covenant_n though_o in_o civil_a society_n it_o may_v consist_v in_o rite_n and_o order_n devise_v by_o themselves_o for_o their_o good_a yet_o in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n this_o covenant_n be_v no_o other_o but_o to_o perform_v the_o duty_n require_v in_o the_o gospel_n towards_o god_n and_o one_o another_o without_o any_o rite_n or_o order_n devise_v by_o themselves_o as_o we_o profess_v in_o set_v forth_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o this_o be_v the_o true_a scope_n of_o those_o word_n let_v any_o judge_n what_o ground_n be_v give_v by_o we_o of_o such_o a_o imputation_n of_o devise_v rite_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v the_o second_o reason_n in_o the_o answer_n give_v any_o ground_n of_o this_o imputation_n for_o though_o it_o dispute_v from_o the_o necessary_a ruin_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o church_n if_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o member_n when_o whither_o and_o wherefore_o he_o please_v to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n without_o consent_n yet_o there_o be_v not_o one_o syllable_n that_o give_v a_o hint_n of_o any_o rite_n custom_n or_o order_n devise_v by_o we_o to_o prevent_v the_o same_o but_o for_o the_o avoid_n thereof_o we_o still_o whole_o and_o only_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n to_o direct_v order_n and_o reform_v all_o action_n of_o this_o nature_n and_o to_o show_v unto_o man_n whether_o they_o may_v lawful_o remove_v or_o not_o remove_v not_o require_v any_o express_a promise_n to_o the_o contrary_a in_o this_o particular_a no_o more_o than_o in_o other_o and_o thus_o we_o hope_v we_o have_v resolve_v you_o of_o our_o practice_n as_o you_o desire_v to_o conclude_v this_o passage_n give_v we_o leave_v without_o offence_n to_o say_v thus_o much_o although_o through_o the_o grace_n of_o christ_n we_o desire_v humble_o to_o submit_v to_o this_o part_n of_o our_o trial_n even_o to_o go_v through_o evil_a report_n as_o well_o as_o good_a yea_o all_o the_o reproach_n and_o cruel_a mock_n of_o the_o world_n know_v that_o we_o have_v deserve_v much_o more_o from_o the_o hand_n of_o that_o god_n without_o who_o providence_n a_o tongue_n can_v not_o move_v against_o we_o yet_o we_o can_v but_o account_n be_v one_o of_o our_o poor_a affliction_n to_o suffer_v in_o this_o kind_n from_o the_o pen_n or_o tongue_n of_o our_o dear_o belove_a brethren_n for_o who_o we_o daily_o pray_v and_o to_o who_o we_o hope_v we_o shall_v never_o be_v provoke_v to_o return_v any_o other_o language_n then_o savour_v of_o love_n and_o respect_n but_o we_o must_v confess_v we_o meet_v with_o so_o many_o sore_a crimination_n oft_o upon_o mere_a mistake_n cast_v not_o only_o upon_o ourselves_o but_o the_o truth_n and_o way_n of_o god_n which_o we_o profess_v and_o that_o both_o by_o this_o learned_a author_n and_o some_o other_o that_o we_o can_v be_v so_o senseless_a of_o the_o dishonour_n be_v reflect_v upon_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n herein_o as_o whole_o to_o be_v silent_a and_o groan_n out_o the_o grief_n of_o our_o spirit_n to_o he_o that_o know_v our_o heart_n wherefore_o we_o humble_o beseech_v all_o our_o godly_a brethren_n to_o bear_v with_o we_o a_o little_a if_o after_o all_o the_o harsh_a passage_n of_o this_o reply_n such_o a_o heap_n of_o accusation_n as_o be_v here_o throw_v upon_o we_o move_v we_o to_o present_v to_o the_o reader_n a_o short_a view_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unjust_o and_o unground_o cast_v upon_o we_o and_o which_o we_o can_v but_o think_v have_v draw_v a_o black_a cloud_n over_o the_o glory_n of_o the_o holy_a discipline_n of_o christ_n which_o he_o have_v here_o set_v up_o among_o we_o to_o omit_v the_o general_a frame_n of_o this_o reply_n in_o present_v our_o opinion_n and_o way_n to_o the_o people_n as_o if_o we_o concur_v general_o with_o those_o of_o the_o rigid_a separation_n and_o differ_v almost_o in_o every_o thing_n from_o such_o godly_a brethren_n as_o have_v breathe_v after_o purity_n of_o ordinance_n and_o reformation_n to_o omit_v also_o the_o frequent_a insert_v of_o such_o term_n unto_o our_o question_n and_o argument_n contrary_a to_o the_o true_a state_n thereof_o which_o render_v every_o thing_n harsh_a and_o full_a of_o rigidness_n to_o the_o ear_n of_o the_o reader_n as_o have_v be_v observe_v by_o we_o and_o omit_v also_o divers_a other_o supposition_n and_o objection_n we_o shall_v only_o desire_v those_o who_o have_v take_v up_o evil_a thought_n concern_v these_o church_n and_o the_o way_n of_o christ_n we_o walk_v in_o from_o this_o reply_n to_o note_v these_o particular_a imputation_n in_o this_o short_a chapter_n and_o upon_o what_o ground_n they_o be_v build_v as_o page_n 79._o that_o we_o hinder_v man_n from_o entrance_n into_o church_n society_n because_o they_o can_v promise_v continuance_n in_o the_o place_n and_o run_v upon_o this_o strain_n he_o say_v be_v it_o ever_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o this_o day_n that_o any_o such_o thing_n be_v propound_v unto_o and_o require_v of_o member_n to_o be_v admit_v into_o church_n fellowship_n here_o be_v a_o loud_a outcry_n and_o who_o will_v not_o think_v but_o that_o we_o usual_o propound_v and_o require_v such_o a_o thing_n in_o our_o admission_n which_o yet_o be_v nothing_o so_o but_o what_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o all_o this_o look_v a_o little_a before_o and_o he_o say_v if_o such_o a_o promise_n be_v require_v again_o ibidem_fw-la say_v he_o we_o think_v the_o church_n be_v overrigid_a in_o exact_v such_o a_o condition_n of_o the_o member_n and_o the_o member_n go_v beyond_o their_o measure_n as_o busy_a body_n and_o what_o be_v the_o ground_n it_o follow_v if_o they_o arrogate_v
can_v pass_v over_o these_o thing_n in_o the_o answer_n which_o may_v evince_v it_o to_o be_v a_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n as_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o abridgement_n to_o which_o we_o refer_v do_v prove_v reply_n the_o argument_n in_o the_o abridgement_n use_v against_o conformity_n to_o the_o ceremony_n do_v not_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o author_n hold_v against_o the_o liturgy_n of_o which_o judgement_n we_o be_v answ_n it_o matter_n not_o whether_o they_o see_v so_o far_o and_o so_o judge_v if_o indeed_o the_o reason_n and_o nature_n of_o ceremony_n and_o the_o book_n be_v the_o same_o for_o the_o first_o reformer_n think_v their_o argument_n strong_a against_o oil_n cream_n and_o spittle_n etc._n etc._n in_o baptism_n but_o see_v not_o that_o they_o will_v hold_v against_o the_o cross_n surplice_n etc._n etc._n as_o well_o yet_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o the_o reverend_a author_n do_v judge_v of_o all_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n reply_n advert_v 4._o if_o these_o reason_n be_v intend_v only_o to_o show_v why_o you_o receive_v not_o our_o form_n of_o administration_n it_o be_v that_o which_o we_o be_v persuade_v you_o know_v we_o never_o require_v of_o you_o if_o to_o disallow_v the_o use_n of_o the_o book_n among_o we_o altogether_o in_o thing_n lawful_a good_a and_o pertinent_a they_o will_v not_o hold_v weight_n answ_n 1_o we_o be_v tell_v in_o the_o first_o epistle_n of_o our_o reverend_n and_o dear_a brethren_n that_o while_o we_o live_v in_o england_n we_o join_v in_o the_o same_o ordinance_n and_o purity_n of_o worship_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v have_v some_o just_a cause_n to_o clear_v up_o our_o differ_a practice_n from_o disuse_v that_o form_n of_o administration_n there_o consider_v that_o our_o differ_a practice_n may_v occasion_v other_o to_o rend_v off_o from_o your_o administration_n there_o whereof_o your_o complain_n 2_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o in_o the_o popish_a form_n of_o mass_n matten_n and_o evensong_n etc._n etc._n some_o thing_n lawful_a good_a and_o pertinent_a may_v be_v find_v yet_o will_v not_o the_o godly_a allow_v these_o very_a reason_n we_o allege_v in_o the_o answer_n sufficient_a to_o refuse_v the_o whole_a form_n and_o so_o those_o good_a and_o lawful_a thing_n in_o that_o form_n as_o that_o they_o be_v devise_v by_o man_n without_o the_o command_n of_o god_n impose_v by_o a_o antichristian_a power_n abuse_v to_o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n wherein_o the_o people_n place_n much_o holiness_n and_o necessity_n full_a of_o scandal_n etc._n etc._n and_o if_o these_o reason_n do_v not_o hold_v against_o this_o form_n in_o the_o communion_n book_n the_o reply_n shall_v have_v acquit_v it_o from_o they_o or_o else_o the_o consequence_n must_v be_v yield_v in_o this_o case_n as_o in_o the_o other_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o good_a and_o pertinent_a thing_n therein_o john_n simpson_n and_o john_n ardly_a martyr_n in_o q._n mary_n day_n and_o faithful_a witness_n make_v answer_v to_o the_o six_o article_n of_o bonner_n concern_v the_o mass_n that_o it_o be_v of_o the_o pope_n not_o of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o not_o good_a not_o have_v in_o it_o any_o goodness_n save_v gloria_fw-la in_o excelsis_fw-la the_o epistle_n and_o gospel_n the_o creed_n and_o pater_fw-la noster_fw-la and_o for_o this_o cause_n they_o say_v they_o have_v not_o nor_o will_v not_o come_v to_o hear_v mass_n the_o same_o answer_n be_v make_v by_o six_o more_o in_o those_o day_n mention_v by_o mr._n fox_n if_o therefore_o corrupt_a form_n may_v be_v use_v because_o of_o some_o thing_n good_a and_o lawful_a mix_v with_o they_o there_o shall_v have_v be_v show_v we_o some_o proof_n for_o it_o but_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o lawful_a use_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v lawful_a and_o good_a in_o it_o we_o say_v so_o too_o due_a circumstance_n of_o their_o use_n be_v observe_v but_o than_o we_o fall_v off_o from_o the_o question_n between_o we_o otherwise_o we_o know_v that_o thing_n lawful_a and_o good_a in_o themselves_o yet_o not_o due_o circumstantiate_v may_v be_v evil_a and_o scandalous_a in_o their_o use_n hear_v what_o paul_n say_v it_o be_v lawful_a for_o paul_n to_o eat_v some_o kind_n of_o meat_n yet_o if_o it_o make_v my_o brother_n offend_v i_o will_v eat_v no_o flesh_n while_o the_o world_n stand_v 1_o cor._n 8.13_o hear_v what_o the_o author_n of_o the_o second_o admonition_n to_o the_o parliament_n say_v in_o queen_n elizabeth_n day_n the_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n which_o of_o all_o other_o must_v not_o be_v touch_v because_o they_o have_v get_v the_o state_n to_o bear_v it_o out_o yet_o he_o have_v but_o a_o bad_a conscience_n that_o in_o this_o time_n will_v hold_v his_o peace_n and_o not_o speak_v it_o for_o fear_n of_o trouble_n know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o intolerable_a abuse_n in_o it_o if_o there_o be_v never_o a_o ill_a word_n or_o sentence_n in_o all_o the_o prayer_n yet_o to_o appoint_v it_o to_o be_v use_v or_o to_o use_v it_o as_o the_o papist_n do_v their_o matin_n and_o evensong_n as_o a_o fit_a service_n to_o god_n though_o the_o word_n be_v good_a yet_o the_o use_n be_v naught_o but_o if_o this_o seem_v too_o sharp_a hear_v what_o a_o late_a godly_a and_o learned_a writer_n speak_v 2._o rejicimus_fw-la illas_fw-la precum_fw-la cultusque_fw-la publici_fw-la formulas_fw-la quae_fw-la tyrannide_fw-la quâdam_fw-la conscientiis_fw-la hominum_fw-la ut_fw-la cultus_fw-la divini_fw-la part_n essentiales_fw-la impoâ—…untur_fw-la quamvis_fw-la quoad_fw-la materiam_fw-la sunt_fw-la legitime_fw-la dispositae_fw-la quoad_fw-la formam_fw-la &_o modum_fw-la tamen_fw-la quo_fw-la inducuntur_fw-la illegitima_fw-la crudelitatis_fw-la instrumenta_fw-la fiunt_fw-la &_o praetextus_fw-la improbae_fw-la malitiae_fw-la &_o occasiones_fw-la violentae_fw-la tyrannidis_fw-la in_o dignissimos_fw-la &_o optimos_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la filias_fw-la reply_n advert_v 5._o you_o be_v general_o you_o say_v loath_a to_o medâ—…le_v with_o the_o affair_n of_o other_o church_n unless_o necessary_o call_v thereunto_o but_o when_o some_o upon_o request_n as_o we_o suppose_v of_o private_a friend_n and_o other_o out_o of_o their_o zeal_n and_o forwardness_n have_v labour_v to_o draw_v many_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o sacrament_n because_o minister_v in_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n we_o can_v apprehend_v any_o just_a ground_n of_o this_o apology_n the_o â—…ent_n be_v wide_a and_o some_o brethren_n have_v their_o hand_n deep_a therein_o which_o make_v we_o crave_v your_o judgement_n and_o the_o reason_n thereof_o to_o make_v up_o the_o breach_n answ_n 1_o what_o you_o impute_v to_o some_o if_o just_o we_o grant_v will_v not_o allow_v this_o apology_n to_o be_v general_a for_o all_o but_o how_o many_o that_o some_o be_v or_o who_o we_o know_v not_o it_o may_v be_v one_o or_o two_o and_o if_o so_o one_o or_o two_o exception_n will_v not_o much_o infringe_v a_o 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that_o his_o manner_n of_o preach_v proceed_v it_o shall_v be_v be_v disorderly_a in_o carry_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la a_o matter_n before_o he_o have_v declare_v it_o to_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v not_o we_o with_o like_a reason_n object_n that_o this_o manner_n of_o proceed_v be_v disorderly_a in_o seek_v to_o draw_v man_n to_o separation_n because_o of_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n before_o you_o have_v show_v we_o or_o other_o brethren_n who_o it_o may_v concren_n by_o scripture_n or_o reason_n that_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n be_v unlawful_a answ_n what_o j._n d._n object_n we_o can_v tell_v see_v you_o neither_o quote_v the_o place_n nor_o the_o printer_n give_v we_o his_o word_n in_o any_o way_n to_o make_v sense_n but_o so_o far_o as_o we_o guess_v at_o the_o meaning_n the_o case_n be_v very_o wide_a from_o this_o in_o hand_n j._n d._n may_v just_o complain_v of_o wrong_n offer_v to_o he_o and_o
false_a church_n we_o think_v it_o needless_a to_o recite_v more_o testimony_n aliquando_fw-la honus_fw-la dormitat_fw-la homerus_fw-la a_o good_a memory_n may_v sometime_o fall_v asleep_a and_o not_o see_v that_o which_o be_v sometime_o most_o obvious_a and_o visible_a but_o what_o other_o argument_n they_o have_v be_v or_o may_v be_v common_a to_o other_o studious_a of_o reformation_n as_o their_o argument_n against_o ceremony_n be_v common_a with_o nonconformist_n and_o therefore_o if_o some_o of_o our_o ground_n be_v find_v in_o they_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v they_o be_v â—…afts_n take_v out_o of_o the_o same_o quiver_n and_o peculiar_a to_o they_o as_o you_o object_n reply_n these_o reason_n shall_v be_v common_a to_o all_o that_o plead_v for_o the_o purity_n of_o god_n ordinance_n which_o be_v never_o take_v to_o be_v sound_a and_o true_a either_o by_o the_o reform_a church_n abroad_o or_o by_o the_o godly_a brethren_n at_o home_n dead_a or_o live_a or_o yet_o by_o the_o most_o 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the_o answer_n will_v be_v very_o imperfect_a and_o impertinent_a and_o just_a so_o it_o be_v here_o in_o the_o frame_n of_o the_o reason_n though_o the_o corruption_n in_o that_o service_n and_o this_o be_v not_o alike_o we_o grant_v but_o before_o we_o answer_v to_o the_o second_o part_n of_o your_o dis-junction_a let_v we_o consider_v a_o little_a here_o once_o for_o all_o the_o act_n of_o the_o people_n in_o join_v with_o the_o read_n of_o this_o liturgy_n or_o so_o much_o of_o it_o as_o be_v read_v usual_o by_o such_o idol-priest_n first_o concern_v the_o liturgy_n itself_o if_o you_o respect_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n or_o manner_n of_o it_o it_o will_v be_v too_o tedious_a to_o rip_v up_o what_o for_o matter_n have_v be_v object_v by_o the_o godly_a reformer_n consider_v but_o two_o thing_n object_v strong_o by_o mr._n cartwright_n against_o the_o form_n or_o manner_n of_o it_o first_o that_o it_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o popish_a massebook_n concern_v which_o he_o 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preach_v and_o preach_v christ_n though_o not_o of_o sincerity_n do_v not_o reach_v such_o minister_n as_o the_o word_n condemn_v for_o many_o such_o may_v be_v approve_v minister_n by_o the_o word_n have_v a_o call_v according_a to_o the_o same_o but_o we_o shall_v not_o contend_v in_o this_o case_n wherein_o we_o do_v not_o dissent_v so_o that_o christian_n be_v leave_v to_o their_o lawful_a liberty_n of_o withdraw_a from_o minister_n gross_o wicked_a and_o teacher_n of_o false_a doctrine_n or_o idle_a and_o unsufficient_a when_o they_o can_v reclaim_v they_o or_o remove_v they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o all_o lawful_a mean_n within_o their_o power_n reply_n the_o reason_n whereby_o the_o ancient_a church_n condemn_v the_o donatist_n and_o catharist_n for_o their_o voluntary_a and_o seditious_a separation_n and_o the_o modern_a church_n condemn_v the_o anabaptist_n for_o their_o rent_v from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n will_v hold_v against_o separation_n from_o the_o prayer_n of_o 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be_v of_o your_o judgement_n herein_o for_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o prophet_n and_o our_o saviour_n christ_n as_o great_a abuse_n no_o question_n be_v find_v etc._n etc._n but_o they_o never_o teach_v people_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o holy_a thing_n of_o god_n answ_n first_o we_o must_v still_o mind_v the_o reader_n of_o the_o true_a and_o full_a state_n of_o the_o question_n which_o in_o our_o answer_n be_v of_o join_v in_o prayer_n with_o and_o when_o that_o whole_a liturgy_n be_v use_v and_o he_o that_o join_v with_o that_o whole_a liturgy_n must_v needs_o be_v suppose_v to_o have_v actual_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o corruption_n thereof_o what_o ever_o they_o be_v and_o therefore_o though_o this_o proposition_n reach_v to_o the_o practice_n of_o able_a and_o godly_a minister_n yet_o let_v none_o think_v we_o plead_v herein_o separation_n from_o their_o ministry_n but_o only_o that_o people_n may_v not_o conform_v with_o they_o to_o any_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o by_o this_o proposition_n also_o the_o author_n may_v easy_o have_v see_v that_o we_o deny_v the_o other_o which_o be_v weave_v in_o with_o this_o not_o because_o of_o the_o ungodliness_n of_o the_o minister_n alone_o as_o he_o carry_v his_o dispute_n but_o chief_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o worship_n together_o with_o the_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o such_o a_o ministry_n that_o be_v both_o unable_a and_o ungodly_a second_o concern_v the_o argument_n it_o run_v as_o full_a for_o conformity_n to_o all_o the_o corrupt_a ceremony_n of_o the_o book_n as_o the_o corrupt_a worship_n itself_o therein_o as_o be_v say_v before_o clear_v the_o one_o viz._n non-conformitie_n to_o ceremony_n show_v a_o reason_n why_o you_o will_v separate_v from_o the_o sacrament_n because_o you_o will_v not_o kneel_v according_a to_o the_o book_n and_o you_o answer_v your_o argument_n here_o allege_v against_o we_o but_o the_o reply_n proceed_v reply_n and_o if_o presence_n at_o form_n of_o prayer_n be_v not_o lawful_a by_o reason_n of_o the_o corruption_n allege_v there_o can_v be_v no_o visible_a society_n name_v since_o 200._o year_n after_o christ_n or_o thereabouts_o wherein_o a_o christian_a may_v lawful_o join_v in_o prayer_n read_v the_o scripture_n hear_v the_o word_n or_o participation_n of_o the_o sacrament_n their_o doctrine_n prayer_n right_n be_v less_o pure_a than_o we_o but_o no_o man_n we_o hope_v will_v be_v so_o bold_a as_o to_o affirm_v the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n within_o 200._o year_n after_o christ_n to_o be_v so_o miserable_o decay_v that_o the_o faithful_a can_v not_o without_o sin_n hold_v communion_n with_o they_o in_o the_o foresay_a ordinance_n of_o god_n answ_n first_o this_o argument_n hold_v as_o strong_o for_o conformity_n to_o the_o ceremony_n as_o to_o the_o whole_a book_n of_o common_a prayer_n as_o be_v say_v before_o second_o this_o be_v a_o dangerous_a kind_n of_o reason_v from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o faithful_a in_o 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will_v never_o meet_v to_o combine_v but_o they_o be_v only_o a_o visible_a number_n of_o saint_n we_o have_v be_v thus_o large_a in_o clear_v this_o scripture_n because_o we_o conceive_v the_o chief_a strength_n of_o the_o contrary_a opinion_n to_o lie_v in_o it_o and_o this_o be_v answer_v the_o light_n of_o it_o we_o hope_v will_v scatter_v the_o darkness_n that_o be_v bring_v upon_o divers_a other_o scripture_n which_o be_v draw_v to_o prove_v such_o a_o kind_n of_o catholic_n church_n as_o rom._n 12.4_o etc._n etc._n col._n 1.25_o 1_o tim._n 3_o 1â—…_n ephes_n 4.11_o in_o which_o last_o scripture_n we_o never_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o officer_n be_v give_v not_o for_o that_o particular_a church_n of_o ephesus_n only_o much_o less_o to_o such_o a_o diminutive_a congregation_n consist_v of_o 40_o 60_o or_o 100_o only_a as_o if_o we_o intend_v to_o iâ—…pawn_v all_o power_n in_o this_o or_o that_o congregational_a body_n but_o to_o a_o congregationall_a church_n consider_v as_o the_o genus_fw-la of_o all_o particular_a congregation_n of_o the_o world_n neither_o to_o this_o congregationall_a church_n only_o but_o to_o all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v gather_v to_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o faith_n but_o do_v this_o argue_v one_o political_a body_n consist_v of_o all_o these_o for_o though_o veâ—…s_o 16._o the_o whole_a body_n be_v say_v to_o be_v compact_v yet_o that_o this_o shall_v be_v understand_v of_o a_o political_a not_o spiritual_a way_n of_o compact_v we_o confess_v with_o submission_n our_o weakness_n can_v apprehend_v the_o last_o scripture_n which_o we_o find_v cite_v that_o seem_v to_o look_v this_o way_n be_v 1_o pet._n 5.1_o feed_v the_o flock_n which_o be_v among_o you_o answ_n 1_o we_o answer_v it_o must_v necessary_o be_v understand_v distributive_o for_o the_o several_a flock_n in_o all_o those_o country_n to_o be_v feed_v by_o their_o particular_a elder_n not_o collective_o to_o be_v feed_v as_o one_o flock_n in_o common_a for_o the_o country_n be_v so_o many_o and_o large_a as_o it_o be_v impossible_a yea_o we_o have_v a_o clear_a parallel_n james_n 2.2_o where_o write_v to_o the_o jew_n of_o the_o twelve_o tribe_n scatter_v abroad_o yet_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o man_n come_v into_o their_o assembly_n which_o can_v be_v mean_v collective_o as_o if_o they_o have_v one_o assembly_n among_o they_o all_o but_o distributive_o of_o any_o assembly_n 2_o though_o they_o be_v call_v a_o flock_n not_o flock_n yet_o this_o as_o râ—…imes_o observe_v be_v not_o because_o it_o be_v one_o flock_n real_o in_o themselves_o but_o in_o some_o respect_n of_o reason_n which_o also_o he_o expound_v to_o be_v per_fw-la internam_fw-la we_o have_v rather_o say_v spiritualem_fw-la unionem_fw-la but_o not_o per_fw-la externam_fw-la combinationem_fw-la in_o respect_n of_o which_o spiritual_a union_n that_o be_v true_a which_o mr._n ball_n cit_v out_o of_o cyprian_a 7._o etsi_fw-la pastor_n multi_fw-la sumus_fw-la unam_fw-la tamen_fw-la gregâ—…m_fw-la pascimus_fw-la as_o also_o that_o there_o be_v episcopatus_fw-la unus_fw-la &_o ecclesia_fw-la una_fw-la in_o â—…oto_fw-la mundo_fw-la hence_o also_o may_v appear_v a_o answer_n to_o divers_a argument_n the_o chief_a whereof_o we_o shall_v run_v through_o objection_n 1_o if_o by_o baptism_n we_o be_v not_o admit_v into_o one_o particular_a church_n but_o into_o the_o whole_a catholic_n visible_a church_n 1_o cor._n 12.13_o then_o there_o be_v such_o a_o catholic_n church_n answ_n baptism_n admit_v we_o into_o the_o whole_a mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n whether_o visible_a or_o invisible_a of_o all_o age_n but_o this_o be_v not_o a_o catholic_n political_a body_n of_o which_o we_o speak_v for_o then_o every_o baptize_v person_n shall_v be_v a_o member_n of_o every_o particular_a church_n and_o have_v a_o oar_n in_o every_o boat_n in_o elect_a officer_n admit_v member_n censure_v offender_n etc._n etc._n which_o mr._n ball_n will_v not_o grant_v and_o indeed_o will_v bring_v in_o endless_a confusion_n into_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n beside_o no_o man_n can_v be_v a_o member_n of_o any_o combine_a society_n without_o their_o consent_n for_o otherwise_o so_o many_o may_v crowd_n into_o the_o church_n because_o baptize_v as_o shall_v overthrow_v the_o edification_n thereof_o and_o that_o against_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o officer_n thereof_o objection_n 2_o when_o any_o scandalous_a person_n be_v deliver_v to_o satan_n he_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n for_o he_o can_v be_v cast_v out_o who_o be_v never_o within_o answ_n 1_o some_o answer_n that_o he_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o all_o only_o consequenter_fw-la by_o reason_n of_o communion_n of_o church_n neither_o do_v we_o see_v that_o this_o be_v take_v away_o by_o say_v that_o as_o when_o the_o left_a hand_n cut_v off_o a_o finger_n of_o the_o right_a hand_n it_o be_v not_o the_o left_a hand_n only_o that_o cut_v it_o off_o but_o the_o whole_a man_n deliberate_a reason_n and_o will_n consent_v for_o if_o this_o similitude_n will_v suit_v than_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n must_v be_v call_v to_o consult_v and_o consent_v antecedenter_n before_o a_o particular_a church_n can_v cut_v off_o any_o member_n which_o ordinary_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v attain_v 2_o but_o further_o according_a to_o our_o former_a principle_n lay_v down_o we_o say_v he_o that_o be_v just_o cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n he_o be_v moral_o excommunicate_v out_o of_o all_o but_o not_o political_o and_o formal_o for_o to_o excommunicate_v political_o and_o formal_o be_v by_o virtue_n of_o a_o superior_a authority_n next_o under_o christ_n so_o that_o what_o be_v bind_v by_o they_o be_v bind_v in_o heaven_n in_o which_o act_n the_o minister_n do_v not_o only_o bind_v the_o person_n but_o also_o by_o virtue_n of_o his_o office_n charge_v the_o church_n not_o to_o have_v communion_n with_o he_o but_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o our_o brethren_n will_v say_v that_o one_o church_n put_v forth_o such_o a_o act_n of_o superior_a authority_n bind_v or_o charge_v all_o church_n politicè_fw-la and_o judicialitâ—…r_v not_o to_o have_v communion_n with_o he_o for_o so_o one_o church_n shall_v exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o church_n and_o that_o without_o their_o actual_a approbation_n for_o quod_fw-la spectat_fw-la ad_fw-la 〈◊〉_d debat_fw-la ob_fw-la 〈◊〉_d approbari_fw-la if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o a_o particular_a church_n do_v excommunicate_a by_o a_o intrinsical_a power_n not_o only_o in_o itself_o but_o intrinsicall_a in_o the_o whole_a body_n the_o question_n will_v be_v what_o be_v that_o intrinsicall_a power_n be_v it_o natural_a or_o voluntary_a to_o say_v it_o be_v natural_a be_v too_o absurd_a it_o voluntary_a than_o neither_o congregation_n class_n province_n nation_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v without_o the_o previous_a consent_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n which_o must_v voluntary_o concur_v thereunto_o and_o if_o the_o catholic_n presbytery_n as_o 〈◊〉_d say_v have_v no_o next_o but_o a_o a_o remote_a power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o this_o remote_a power_n be_v extraordinary_a or_o rare_a contingens_fw-la or_o almost_o never_o than_o the_o ordinary_a power_n of_o excommunication_n which_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o be_v not_o from_o a_o intrinsâ—…call_a power_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a on_o the_o other_o side_n if_o it_o be_v say_v this_o power_n be_v in_o the_o whole_a but_o not_o derive_v from_o the_o whole_a to_o the_o part_n as_o the_o power_n of_o see_v be_v first_o in_o the_o man_n then_o in_o the_o eye_n yet_o not_o derive_v from_o hand_n leg_n shoulder_n etc._n etc._n and_o as_o the_o great_a body_n of_o the_o sun_n have_v intrinsical_v light_n in_o every_o part_n not_o by_o derivation_n from_o one_o part_n to_o another_o so_o this_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v from_o christ_n the_o head_n to_o all_o the_o integral_a part_n in_o point_n that_o several_o concern_v the_o same_o first_o if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o every_o particular_a congregation_n receive_v its_o power_n of_o the_o key_n immediate_o from_o christ_n not_o by_o derivation_n from_o any_o presbytery_n or_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o be_v in_o that_o respect_n independent_a neither_o also_o can_v congregation_n derive_v the_o power_n seat_v in_o they_o to_o presbytery_n nor_o any_o great_a body_n take_v it_o from_o they_o second_o though_o we_o acknowledge_v this_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o excommunication_n in_o particular_a congregation_n as_o be_v there_o proper_o seat_v by_o christ_n yet_o that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o political_a church_n classical_a provincial_n national_n or_o catholic_n that_o have_v any_o such_o intrinsical_a power_n as_o be_v in_o the_o sun_n this_o be_v not_o yet_o prove_v to_o our_o understanding_n we_o deny_v â—…ot_v the_o use_n of_o lesser_a and_o great_a synodâ—…_n
ordinance_n of_o christ_n and_o privilege_n of_o a_o church_n which_o the_o other_o have_v not_o be_v out_o of_o that_o order_n of_o christ_n prescribe_v in_o the_o gospel_n in_o which_o order_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n visible_a ordinance_n be_v to_o be_v dispense_v as_o have_v be_v prove_v before_o reply_n if_o a_o synod_n consist_v of_o sundry_a member_n of_o particular_a church_n meet_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n about_o the_o common_a and_o public_a affair_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v join_v together_o in_o prayer_n and_o communion_n of_o the_o supper_n we_o can_v see_v no_o ground_n to_o question_v it_o as_o unlawful_a although_o that_o assembly_n be_v no_o particular_a congregation_n or_o church_n have_v no_o pastor_n over_o they_o etc._n etc._n answ_n that_o such_o a_o assembly_n may_v pray_v together_o be_v no_o question_n for_o every_o family_n may_v do_v so_o and_o that_o they_o may_v receive_v the_o supper_n also_o in_o a_o right_a order_n we_o deny_v not_o for_o meet_v where_o there_o be_v a_o particular_a institute_v church_n they_o may_v have_v communion_n therewith_o in_o the_o supper_n be_v many_o as_o well_o as_o few_o but_o whether_o they_o may_v as_o a_o church_n be_v no_o political_a body_n but_o member_n of_o many_o political_a church_n administer_v church_n ordinance_n proper_a to_o a_o church_n we_o will_v see_v some_o reason_n before_o we_o can_v judge_v it_o lawful_a so_o to_o do_v for_o though_o some_o do_v account_v such_o a_o synod_n ecclesia_fw-la orta_fw-la yet_o not_o proper_o such_o a_o church_n as_o have_v ecclesiastical_a power_n authority_n and_o privilege_n belong_v thereto_o they_o may_v consult_v and_o doctrinal_o determine_v of_o case_n of_o that_o assembly_n act_v 15._o but_o further_a to_o proceed_v we_o see_v no_o rule_n nor_o pattern_n beside_o if_o such_o a_o assembly_n of_o many_o church_n may_v administer_v seal_n why_o may_v not_o any_o other_o assembly_n of_o church_n member_n or_o minister_n do_v the_o same_o and_o so_o this_o power_n will_v be_v carry_v without_o limitation_n we_o know_v not_o how_o far_o if_o they_o once_o depart_v from_o a_o particular_a church_n chap._n viii_o consid_n 3._o reply_n to_o the_o three_o consideration_n this_o whole_a reason_n as_o it_o be_v propound_v make_v only_o against_o itself_o who_o ever_o think_v that_o the_o seal_n be_v not_o proper_a to_o confederate_n or_o the_o church_n of_o god_n of_o old_a visible_a believer_n in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n be_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o in_o church_n order_n according_a to_o the_o dispensation_n of_o those_o time_n though_o not_o join_v to_o the_o society_n of_o abraham_n family_n to_o exclude_v job_n melchisedeck_v etc._n etc._n because_o not_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v wellnigh_o a_o contradiction_n and_o so_o to_o debar_v know_v approve_v christian_n etc._n etc._n answ_n that_o this_o reason_n make_v not_o against_o itself_o mr._n ball_n himself_o have_v clear_v when_o he_o state_v our_o consideration_n true_o in_o the_o word_n follow_v as_o will_v appear_v however_o here_o he_o somewhat_o trouble_v the_o water_n needlesse_o that_o the_o ground_n may_v not_o appear_v for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o our_o answer_n which_o deny_v melchisedech_n job_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n according_a to_o the_o manner_n of_o those_o time_n indeed_o we_o instance_n in_o they_o as_o person_n under_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n not_o mention_v their_o membership_n in_o family_n church_n as_o be_v enough_o for_o our_o purpose_n if_o they_o have_v not_o right_a to_o circumcision_n by_o virtue_n of_o their_o right_n in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n except_o they_o join_v to_o the_o church_n at_o first_o in_o abraham_n family_n and_o so_o after_o to_o the_o same_o church_n in_o israel_n and_o the_o more_o special_a church_n relation_n in_o abraham_n family_n be_v require_v to_o circumcision_n the_o strong_a be_v the_o force_n of_o our_o reason_n not_o the_o weak_a for_o so_o much_o the_o rather_o it_o follow_v that_o seal_n be_v not_o to_o be_v dispense_v to_o believer_n as_o such_o though_o visible_o profess_v the_o faith_n except_o they_o join_v also_o to_o such_o a_o form_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n to_o or_o in_o which_o the_o seal_n be_v institute_v and_o give_v reply_n the_o true_a and_o proper_a meaning_n of_o this_o consideration_n be_v that_o as_o circumcision_n and_o the_o passeover_n be_v not_o to_o be_v dispense_v to_o all_o visible_a believer_n under_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n but_o only_o to_o such_o as_o be_v join_v to_o abraham_n family_n or_o the_o people_n of_o the_o god_n of_o abraham_n no_o more_o may_v baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v administer_v now_o to_o any_o believer_n unless_o they_o be_v join_v to_o some_o particular_a congregation_n answ_n these_o word_n right_o state_v the_o consideration_n we_o leave_v it_o to_o any_o indifferent_a reader_n to_o judge_v whether_o any_o way_n it_o make_v against_o itself_o or_o whether_o there_o be_v any_o cause_n first_o to_o darken_v it_o as_o be_v do_v in_o the_o former_a passage_n reply_n the_o strength_n of_o it_o stand_v in_o the_o parity_n between_o circumcision_n and_o baptism_n but_o this_o parity_n be_v not_o find_v in_o every_o thing_n as_o yourselves_o allege_v to_o unfold_v it_o more_o full_o we_o will_v consider_v three_o thing_n first_o wherein_o the_o sacrament_n agree_v and_o wherein_o they_o differ_v answ_n it_o matter_n not_o in_o how_o many_o thing_n the_o sacrament_n differ_v so_o they_o agree_v in_o the_o thing_n question_v and_o though_o we_o may_v raise_v dispute_n and_o query_n about_o some_o particular_n in_o this_o large_a discourse_n upon_o this_o first_o head_n yet_o see_v here_o be_v a_o grant_n of_o the_o parity_n in_o the_o point_n now_o question_v viz._n concern_v the_o person_n to_o who_o circumcision_n and_o baptism_n do_v belong_v we_o shall_v take_v what_o be_v grant_v and_o leave_v the_o rest_n for_o thus_o it_o be_v say_v circumcision_n and_o baptism_n be_v both_o sacrament_n of_o divine_a institution_n and_o so_o they_o agree_v in_o substance_n of_o the_o thing_n signify_v the_o person_n to_o who_o they_o be_v to_o be_v administer_v and_o the_o order_n of_o administration_n if_o the_o right_a proportion_n be_v observe_v now_o that_o we_o hold_v the_o right_a proportion_n in_o the_o person_n may_v appearâ—…_n first_o in_o that_o as_o be_v grant_v circumcision_n seal_v the_o entrance_n into_o the_o covenant_n but_o this_o covenant_n be_v not_o simple_o and_o only_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n but_o that_o whole_a covenant_n that_o be_v make_v with_o abraham_n whereby_o on_o god_n part_n they_o be_v assure_v of_o many_o special_a blessing_n whereof_o lot_n and_o other_o not_o in_o this_o covenant_n with_o abraham_n be_v not_o capable_a and_o whereby_o abraham_n his_o seed_n and_o family_n be_v bind_v for_o their_o part_n to_o be_v a_o people_n to_o god_n and_o to_o observe_v this_o sign_n of_o the_o covenant_n which_o other_o in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o answ_n second_o as_o be_v grant_v it_o be_v abraham_n and_o his_o household_n and_o the_o seed_n of_o believe_a jew_n that_o be_v the_o person_n to_o be_v circumcise_a and_o therefore_o not_o visible_a believer_n as_o such_o for_o then_o lot_n have_v be_v include_v so_o by_o right_a proportion_n not_o all_o visible_a believer_n as_o such_o but_o such_o as_o with_o abraham_n and_o his_o family_n be_v in_o visible_a covenant_n to_o be_v the_o people_n of_o god_n according_a to_o the_o institution_n of_o church_n when_o and_o to_o which_o the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n be_v give_v and_o therefore_o as_o all_o family_n church_n but_o abraham_n be_v in_o a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n be_v exclude_v so_o much_o more_o such_o as_o be_v in_o no_o visible_a constitute_v church_n at_o all_o reply_n second_o as_o for_o the_o proposition_n itself_o certain_a it_o be_v circumcision_n and_o the_o passeover_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v only_o to_o the_o visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n i._n e._n to_o man_n in_o covenant_n profess_v the_o true_a faith_n but_o that_o in_o abraham_n time_n none_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o join_v not_o to_o abraham_n family_n we_o have_v not_o learned_a answ_n the_o proposition_n we_o see_v be_v grant_v yet_o it_o be_v obscure_v divers_a way_n to_o which_o we_o answer_v first_o whereas_o it_o be_v say_v these_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v man_n in_o covenant_n profess_v the_o true_a faith_n true_o but_o where_o not_o in_o any_o place_n but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o abraham_n family_n and_o so_o after_o in_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n second_o what_o faith_n not_o only_a faith_n in_o the_o messiah_n for_o life_n and_o salvation_n but_o withal_o faith_n in_o the_o promise_v make_v to_o
reply_n if_o lot_n job_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o circumcise_v there_o be_v not_o the_o like_a reason_n for_o circumcision_n and_o baptism_n in_o this_o particular_a answ_n the_o force_n of_o the_o consideration_n do_v not_o depend_v upon_o the_o likeness_n of_o reason_n between_o the_o person_n to_o be_v circumcise_v and_o baptize_v in_o every_o respect_n but_o in_o this_o that_o as_o circumcision_n and_o the_o passeover_n be_v give_v only_o to_o visible_a member_n of_o that_o institute_v visible_a church_n and_o therefore_o so_o in_o this_o case_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n now_o therefore_o if_o you_o can_v allege_v many_o more_o different_a reason_n between_o lot_n job_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o circumcise_v and_o those_o not_o to_o be_v baptize_v it_o will_v little_o avail_v in_o the_o case_n but_o we_o shall_v consider_v your_o difference_n particular_o reply_n first_o if_o ever_o circumcision_n be_v appropriate_v to_o abraham_n family_n and_o may_v not_o be_v communicate_v to_o other_o visible_a believer_n it_o be_v in_o the_o first_o institution_n but_o in_o the_o first_o institution_n of_o baptism_n it_o be_v not_o so_o observe_v that_o believer_n shall_v be_v gather_v into_o a_o christian_a church_n and_o then_o baptize_v mat._n 3.7_o john_n baptize_v such_o as_o come_v to_o he_o confess_v their_o sin_n the_o apostle_n baptize_v disciple_n such_o as_o glad_o receive_v their_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n answ_n there_o be_v no_o such_o disparity_n in_o this_o as_o be_v object_v for_o abraham_n family_n be_v in_o covenant_n before_o circumcision_n be_v give_v only_o the_o covenant_n be_v more_o full_o explain_v and_o confirm_v and_o so_o when_o john_n baptize_v he_o baptize_v the_o member_n of_o the_o jew_n church_n in_o covenant_n before_o to_o who_o he_o be_v send_v to_o turn_v the_o heart_n of_o the_o father_n to_o the_o child_n etc._n etc._n and_o to_o prepare_v a_o people_n for_o the_o lord_n and_o baptism_n be_v then_o give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n with_o reference_n to_o so_o many_o as_o will_v receive_v the_o doctrine_n of_o john_n concern_v repentance_n and_o remission_n of_o sin_n by_o faith_n in_o the_o messiah_n now_o come_v among_o they_o and_o therefore_o christ_n himself_o and_o his_o disciple_n remain_v yet_o member_n of_o that_o church_n second_o though_o the_o visible_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o yet_o to_o be_v erect_v in_o christian_a church_n till_o after_o christ_n death_n and_o resurrection_n whereby_o he_o do_v put_v a_o end_n to_o the_o jewish_a worship_n and_o therefore_o no_o christian_a church_n can_v be_v gather_v by_o john_n yet_o there_o be_v a_o middle_a state_n of_o a_o people_n prepare_v for_o the_o lord_n gather_v out_o of_o the_o jewish_a church_n which_o according_a to_o that_o state_n be_v make_v the_o disciple_n of_o john_n by_o solemn_a profession_n of_o their_o repentance_n or_o conversion_n to_o god_n and_o acknowledgement_n of_o christ_n the_o lamb_n of_o god_n already_o come_v to_o who_o the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n be_v appropriate_v as_o for_o the_o instance_n act._n 2.37_o etc._n etc._n and_o 8.37_o and_o 10.47_o 48._o they_o be_v speak_v to_o before_o in_o the_o first_o consideration_n reply_n second_o lot_n job_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o bind_v to_o join_v to_o abraham_n family_n and_o be_v circumcise_v but_o now_o all_o visible_a believer_n be_v bind_v to_o seek_v baptism_n in_o a_o holy_a manner_n answ_n first_o this_o difference_n make_v little_a to_o the_o point_n in_o hand_n it_o be_v enough_o that_o all_o that_o will_v be_v circumcise_v be_v bind_v to_o join_v to_o that_o church_n and_o so_o now_o second_o in_o after_o time_n no_o doubt_n every_o true_a proselyte_n fear_v god_n be_v bind_v to_o join_v to_o that_o church_n as_o well_o as_o now_o and_o if_o now_o all_o visible_a believer_n be_v bind_v to_o profess_v their_o faith_n and_o seek_v baptism_n in_o a_o holy_a manner_n why_o shall_v they_o not_o be_v bind_v to_o join_v to_o some_o visible_a church_n and_o seek_v it_o there_o as_o well_o as_o of_o old_a yea_o where_o shall_v they_o profess_v their_o faith_n but_o in_o the_o visible_a church_n as_o the_o proselyte_n of_o old_a do_v your_o three_o difference_n be_v oft_o press_v and_o answer_v before_o reply_n four_o if_o circumcision_n be_v appropriate_v to_o the_o family_n of_o abraham_n it_o be_v because_o that_o covenant_n be_v peculiar_a to_o abraham_n posterity_n namely_o that_o christ_n shall_v come_v of_o isaac_n but_o baptism_n be_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n without_o peculiarity_n or_o respect_n answ_n this_o difference_n be_v of_o little_a moment_n neither_o will_v it_o hold_v for_o first_o though_o that_o and_o other_o promise_n have_v a_o special_a eye_n to_o abraham_n family_n yet_o circumcision_n seal_v the_o righteousness_n of_o faith_n rom._n 4._o to_o they_o be_v in_o visible_a covenant_n with_o the_o church_n as_o baptism_n now_o do_v second_o this_o peculiar_a respect_n you_o speak_v of_o no_o way_n hinder_v the_o join_n of_o many_o servant_n to_o abraham_n family_n and_o covenant_n nor_o any_o proselyte_n to_o the_o church_n afterward_o of_o any_o nation_n no_o more_o than_o now_o in_o respect_n of_o baptism_n three_o the_o true_a reason_n be_v because_o although_o the_o covenant_n be_v make_v with_o other_o yet_o not_o establish_v nor_o enlarge_v towards_o they_o and_o hence_o if_o they_o will_v partake_v of_o such_o a_o covenant_n they_o must_v join_v in_o this_o which_o also_o be_v the_o glory_n of_o the_o rich_a grace_n of_o christ_n shine_v forth_o in_o church-covenant_n with_o all_o that_o will_v become_v a_o people_n to_o he_o to_o this_o day_n the_o first_o difference_n be_v answer_v in_o the_o first_o and_o second_o chap._n ix_o consid_n 4._o reply_n to_o the_o four_o consideration_n first_o man_n be_v capable_a of_o church_n censure_n either_o as_o have_v power_n to_o dispense_v they_o or_o as_o be_v subject_a unto_o they_o etc._n etc._n in_o the_o second_o sense_n many_o be_v capable_a of_o church_n privilege_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o church_n censure_n as_o the_o child_n of_o christian_a parent_n be_v capable_a of_o baptism_n and_o approve_a member_n of_o any_o true_a church_n be_v capable_a of_o seal_n in_o other_o congregation_n among_o you_o who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o other_o congregation_n spiritual_a communion_n in_o public_a prayer_n whereof_o visible_a beleiver_n not_o in_o church_n order_n be_v capable_a but_o not_o subject_a to_o common_a censure_n in_o your_o sense_n answ_n this_o distinction_n be_v needless_a our_o meaning_n be_v plain_a in_o the_o second_o sense_n and_o therefore_o we_o say_v nothing_o to_o what_o be_v object_v against_o the_o first_o to_o the_o instance_n object_v against_o the_o proposition_n in_o the_o second_o sense_n we_o answer_v first_o concern_v the_o infant_n of_o church-member_n they_o be_v subject_a to_o censure_n whensoever_o they_o offend_v the_o church_n as_o other_o be_v though_o so_o long_o as_o they_o live_v innocent_o they_o need_v they_o not_o second_o member_n of_o any_o true_a visible_a church_n be_v subject_a and_o so_o capable_a of_o censure_n though_o not_o in_o another_o church_n which_o be_v not_o in_o in_o the_o proposition_n 2._o also_o they_o be_v capable_a of_o censure_n mediate_o by_o and_o in_o that_o other_o church_n if_o they_o there_o offend_v for_o that_o church_n may_v admonish_v and_o prosecute_v the_o admonition_n in_o the_o church_n to_o which_o they_o belong_v and_o refuse_v society_n with_o they_o if_o they_o repent_v not_o which_o can_v be_v say_v of_o such_o as_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o visible_a church_n who_o can_v be_v prosecute_v to_o excommunication_n in_o any_o place_n three_o public_a prayer_n of_o the_o church_n though_o they_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o church_n have_v a_o special_a communion_n in_o they_o in_o which_o respect_v other_o do_v not_o share_v yet_o they_o be_v not_o a_o privilege_n or_o peculiar_a ordinance_n wherein_o none_o but_o the_o church_n may_v share_v for_o a_o heathen_a or_o infidel_n may_v hear_v the_o word_n and_o join_v in_o the_o prayer_n be_v cultus_fw-la naturalis_fw-la say_v amen_o unto_o the_o same_o which_o can_v be_v say_v of_o seal_n and_o censure_n be_v cultus_fw-la institutus_fw-la reply_n second_o a_o person_n baptize_v be_v not_o baptize_v into_o that_o particular_a congregation_n only_o but_o into_o all_o church_n and_o in_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v all_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o baptize_v person_n and_o so_o to_o be_v esteem_v of_o they_o now_o the_o privilâ—…dge_n of_o the_o baptize_v person_n walk_v in_o the_o truth_n and_o able_a to_o examine_v himself_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n as_o all_o circumcise_a person_n have_v right_o thereby_o to_o eat_v the_o passeover_n in_o any_o
have_v and_o answer_v oft_o before_o in_o a_o word_n there_o can_v be_v the_o like_a reason_n no_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o other_o church_n who_o may_v in_o a_o due_a order_n of_o christ_n persecute_v the_o censure_n against_o they_o though_o not_o complete_o among_o themselves_o which_o can_v beâ—…_n say_v of_o such_o as_o have_v not_o join_v themselves_o to_o any_o church_n and_o therefore_o we_o deny_v tâ—…at_v the_o apostle_n reason_n be_v because_o they_o be_v without_o to_o corinth_n but_o without_o to_o all_o church_n reply_n three_o the_o fornicator_n of_o this_o world_n do_v they_o not_o explain_v who_o the_o apostle_n point_v unto_o by_o the_o title_n of_o be_v without_o verse_n the_o 10.11_o such_o as_o have_v not_o receive_v the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n answ_n we_o nâ—…ver_v think_v otherwise_o but_o that_o the_o fornicator_n of_o this_o world_n and_o the_o heathen_a be_v most_o proper_o without_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n but_o if_o our_o word_n be_v observe_v that_o in_o a_o certain_a respect_n or_o as_o our_o word_n be_v in_o regard_n of_o visible_a church_n communion_n such_o as_o be_v in_o no_o church_n society_n be_v say_v to_o be_v without_o what_o great_a offence_n have_v we_o give_v for_o first_o be_v not_o a_o godly_a man_n if_o just_o eâ—…communicate_v without_o in_o this_o sense_n second_o do_v not_o the_o apostle_n john_n express_o call_v they_o without_o that_o forsake_v the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o church_n 1_o john_n 2.19_o say_v they_o wâ—…nt_v out_o three_o be_v not_o the_o catechumâ—…ni_n of_o old_a in_o this_o respect_n without_o and_o the_o lapse_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n and_o the_o likeâ—…_n who_o in_o those_o zealous_a and_o severe_a time_n of_o church_n discipline_n be_v not_o only_o say_v to_o be_v without_o but_o stand_v without_o though_o weep_v and_o pray_v as_o penitent_n at_o the_o church_n door_n sometime_o for_o two_o or_o three_o year_n and_o after_o this_o degree_n of_o preparation_n for_o entrance_n into_o the_o church_n which_o they_o call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o be_v three_o more_o before_o they_o be_v receive_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n which_o severity_n though_o we_o approve_v not_o yet_o it_o may_v mollify_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o godly_a learned_a that_o be_v apt_a to_o be_v offend_v at_o such_o a_o word_n from_o we_o four_o our_o saviour_n himself_o express_o say_v and_o that_o not_o only_o of_o those_o of_o no_o church_n but_o such_o as_o be_v even_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o his_o ordinary_a hearer_n that_o many_o of_o they_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o man_n without_o and_o therefore_o this_o application_n of_o 1_o cor._n 5.12_o need_v not_o be_v call_v insolent_a or_o raise_v such_o a_o hubbub_n abroad_o as_o we_o perceive_v it_o do_v reply_n four_o church_n order_n be_v necessary_a we_o deny_v not_o but_o that_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v a_o constant_a set_a member_n of_o a_o particular_a society_n by_o covenant_n to_o make_v he_o a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n or_o to_o give_v he_o title_n or_o interest_n to_o the_o public_a order_n this_o be_v not_o teach_v of_o god_n this_o be_v but_o a_o bare_a denial_n of_o the_o position_n itself_o but_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o public_a order_n we_o know_v not_o or_o where_o the_o order_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v grant_v to_o be_v necessary_a can_v be_v find_v but_o in_o particular_a church_n we_o be_v yet_o to_o learn_v neither_o be_v it_o anywhere_o teach_v in_o this_o reply_n and_o we_o will_v glad_o learn_v how_o that_o church_n shall_v orderly_o deal_v with_o such_o a_o man_n in_o case_n of_o offence_n that_o be_v of_o no_o particular_a church_n reply_n five_o paul_n divide_v all_o man_n into_o two_o rank_n the_o first_o and_o great_a without_o the_o last_o and_o lesser_a within_o but_o that_o believer_n etc._n etc._n and_o their_o child_n shall_v be_v reckon_v without_o we_o read_v not_o in_o any_o scripture_n but_o in_o scripture_n phrase_n heretic_n themselves_o be_v within_o 1_o john_n 2.19_o 1_o cor._n 11.19_o answ_n all_o that_o be_v say_v in_o this_o objection_n except_o the_o last_o clause_n be_v but_o a_o repeat_v denial_n of_o the_o conclusion_n in_o other_o word_n to_o the_o objection_n about_o heretic_n within_o we_o grant_v they_o be_v within_o till_o cast_v out_o or_o go_v out_o of_o the_o church_n 1_o john_n 2.19_o and_o if_o go_v out_o how_o be_v they_o within_o and_o so_o if_o a_o orthodox_n professor_n will_v froward_o forsake_v all_o church_n and_o live_v alone_o or_o among_o the_o heathen_a how_o be_v he_o within_o we_o speak_v only_o in_o general_n reply_n six_o this_o have_v not_o be_v believe_v in_o the_o church_n answ_n we_o be_v not_o bind_v in_o every_o thing_n to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n faith_n and_o what_o we_o have_v say_v before_o may_v satisfy_v here_o reply_n seven_o without_o be_v dog_n etc._n etc._n rev._n 22.15_o not_o such_o as_o be_v faithful_a holy_a etc._n etc._n answ_n true_o proper_o such_o be_v without_o not_o these_o yet_o in_o some_o respect_n as_o have_v be_v say_v other_o also_o may_v be_v without_o as_o such_o as_o forsake_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n as_o be_v before_o say_v more_o full_o reply_n eight_o they_o that_o be_v without_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n be_v alien_n from_o the_o commonwealth_n of_o israel_n stranger_n from_o the_o covenant_n of_o promise_n have_v no_o hope_n and_o without_o god_n in_o the_o world_n but_o we_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o pass_v such_o rash_a censure_n upon_o the_o brethren_n who_o be_v not_o gather_v into_o the_o society_n as_o set_v member_n answ_n to_o say_v some_o believer_n may_v be_v without_o in_o some_o respect_n be_v far_a from_o such_o a_o censure_n the_o scripture_n say_v of_o israel_n in_o their_o corrupâ—…_n estate_n and_o defect_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n that_o they_o be_v a_o long_a time_n without_o god_n without_o law_n without_o a_o teach_a priest_n yet_o that_o hard_a expression_n do_v not_o equal_v they_o with_o the_o heathen_a much_o less_o to_o say_v some_o believer_n be_v without_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o regard_n of_o visible_a church_n communion_n and_o we_o judge_v no_o otherwise_o of_o such_o then_o of_o ourselves_o when_o we_o be_v in_o the_o like_a case_n reply_n nine_o 〈…〉_z shall_v â—…ee_v without_o 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v not_o 〈…〉_z of_o the_o particular_a combination_n 〈…〉_z reform_a church_n that_o ascribe_v the_o 〈…〉_z and_o not_o to_o the_o community_n and_o some_o among_o 〈…〉_z also_o and_o therefore_o we_o 〈…〉_z approve_a christ_n 〈…〉_z be_v either_o without_o or_o not_o capable_a of_o church_n censure_n if_o they_o offenâ—…_n though_o no_o set_a member_n for_o 〈…〉_z themselves_o 〈…〉_z ordinance_n for_o a_o time_n and_o 〈…〉_z â—…ffending_a 〈◊〉_d answ_n this_o objection_n have_v no_o colour_n without_o extreme_a strain_n of_o our_o application_n oâ—…_n 1_o cor_n 5_o 1â—…_n see_v 〈◊〉_d never_o limit_v the_o position_n to_o church_n of_o the_o same_o judgemenâ—…_n or_o in_o like_a degree_n of_o order_n to_o we_o it_o be_v only_o a_o force_a 〈◊〉_d which_o be_v cast_v upon_o we_o but_o we_o can_v 〈…〉_z our_o brethren_n â—…andâ—…_n neither_o do_v we_o know_v any_o church_n oâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d that_o 〈◊〉_d the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o the_o presbytery_n or_o classiâ—…_n exclude_v the_o community_n among_o we_o second_o for_o that_o objection_n that_o such_o puâ—…_n themselves_o under_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o time_n if_o with_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o subjection_n to_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n they_o desire_v seal_n it_o be_v something_o but_o that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d deâ—…iâ—…ing_v of_o seal_n do_v include_v such_o a_o subjection_n in_o itself_o be_v 〈◊〉_d for_o this_o or_o that_o act_n of_o administration_n we_o can_v understand_v but_o let_v this_o be_v real_o make_v good_a that_o defit_v seal_v it_o be_v a_o way_n that_o subject_n themselves_o to_o the_o church_n as_o member_n and_o the_o case_n will_v be_v issue_v be_v understand_v of_o such_o approve_a christian_n as_o the_o position_n speak_v of_o last_o to_o proceed_v against_o such_o as_o aâ—…_n not_o member_n or_o of_o another_o church_n as_o with_o a_o offend_a member_n of_o our_o own_o be_v not_o much_o unlike_o the_o proceed_n of_o victor_n in_o his_o contentious_a time_n or_o may_v sow_v the_o seed_n of_o such_o usurpation_n which_o we_o leave_v to_o the_o godly_a wise_a to_o consider_v of_o reply_n ten_o if_o upon_o good_a reason_n a_o passage_n of_o scripture_n can_v be_v clear_v to_o prove_v that_o for_o which_o it_o be_v never_o allege_v by_o any_o writer_n we_o be_v not_o to_o except_v against_o it_o for_o want_v of_o man_n testimony_n only_o in_o such_o case_n our_o reason_n must_v be_v convince_a but_o for_o the_o
rest_n etc._n etc._n it_o can_v never_o be_v show_v in_o scripture_n that_o any_o society_n of_o unbaptised_a do_v first_o choose_v from_o among_o themselves_o a_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n by_o who_o they_o may_v be_v baptize_v you_o can_v produce_v one_o example_n or_o other_o proof_n in_o scripture_n of_o one_o man_n teach_v the_o gospel_n ministerial_o but_o he_o be_v baptize_v and_o a_o member_n of_o a_o true_a church_n or_o of_o a_o society_n who_o make_v choice_n of_o a_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n but_o they_o be_v baptize_v person_n answ_n 1_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v that_o when_o church_n be_v gather_v by_o apostle_n and_o extraordinary_a officer_n out_o of_o person_n unbaptise_v they_o be_v first_o baptize_v into_o church_n fellowship_n before_o they_o choose_v officer_n and_o so_o long_o as_o the_o apostle_n remain_v enjoy_v from_o they_o other_o ordinance_n as_o act._n 2._o and_o so_o have_v no_o officer_n choose_v by_o themselves_o but_o by_o christ_n immediate_o for_o they_o yet_o as_o when_o the_o apostle_n leave_v they_o they_o must_v choose_v officer_n if_o they_o will_v enjoy_v ordinance_n so_o when_o there_o be_v no_o such_o apostle_n nor_o evangelist_n nor_o no_o need_n of_o baptism_n as_o be_v usual_o the_o cause_n of_o christian_n arise_v out_o of_o popery_n in_o this_o case_n we_o say_v such_o church_n can_v partake_v of_o no_o ordinance_n without_o they_o choose_v officer_n and_o yet_o this_o vary_v not_o from_o the_o scripture_n pattern_n neither_o but_o only_o so_o far_o as_o the_o state_n of_o those_o believer_n differ_v when_o paul_n find_v about_o twelve_o believer_n at_o ephesâ—…s_n who_o be_v baptize_v by_o john_n the_o baptist_n act._n 19.1_o etc._n etc._n if_o these_o be_v by_o the_o apostle_n set_v into_o a_o constitute_v church_n as_o be_v probable_a be_v call_v on_o further_a to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o will_n and_o way_n there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o baptise_v they_o again_o with_o water_n but_o only_o with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o the_o apostle_n be_v at_o pentecost_n act._n 1.5_o with_o 2.1.2_o and_o yet_o no_o vary_a from_o the_o rule_n in_o so_o do_v and_o the_o like_a be_v our_o case_n now_o 2_o if_o this_o be_v so_o as_o here_o you_o urge_v than_o those_o former_a assertion_n must_v needs_o fall_v to_o the_o ground_n as_o that_o every_o society_n in_o covenant_n with_o god_n be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n page_n 23._o and_o that_o it_o be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n that_o it_o be_v lay_v upon_o christ_n the_o foundation_n which_o be_v do_v the_o remain_v of_o what_o be_v forbid_v or_o want_v of_o what_o be_v command_v can_v put_v the_o society_n from_o the_o right_n and_o title_n of_o a_o church_n if_o these_o be_v so_o a_o company_n of_o unbaptised_a person_n may_v be_v a_o church_n be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o lay_v on_o christ_n the_o foundation_n though_o they_o want_v baptism_n 3_o though_o no_o such_o example_n of_o 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baptize_v but_o we_o see_v no_o need_n of_o such_o a_o example_n scripture_n ground_n be_v sufficient_a to_o guide_v we_o in_o these_o case_n be_v they_o rule_v example_n or_o good_a consequence_n deduce_v from_o they_o and_o we_o reason_n thus_o a_o church_n of_o believer_n profess_v christ_n have_v liberty_n from_o christ_n to_o choose_v their_o officer_n but_o a_o company_n of_o unbaptised_a man_n profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n in_o a_o combine_a society_n be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o therefore_o may_v choose_v their_o officer_n reply_n the_o three_o proposition_n that_o the_o power_n of_o call_v minister_n be_v give_v by_o christ_n unto_o the_o church_n must_v also_o right_o be_v understand_v by_o the_o church_n must_v not_o be_v understand_v the_o faithful_a alone_o but_o their_o guide_v and_o officer_n with_o they_o who_o be_v to_o go_v before_o they_o and_o to_o govern_v and_o direct_v they_o in_o their_o choice_n neither_o can_v we_o say_v two_o or_o three_o believer_n link_v in_o a_o society_n be_v such_o a_o church_n to_o who_o the_o call_v of_o minister_n do_v belong_v but_o that_o right_o be_v give_v by_o christ_n to_o such_o church_n as_o be_v gather_v by_o the_o apostle_n answ_n the_o first_o limitation_n of_o this_o proposition_n we_o pass_v over_o as_o be_v speak_v to_o in_o the_o former_a to_o this_o we_o answer_v that_o when_o a_o church_n have_v guide_n we_o grant_v they_o be_v to_o govern_v they_o therein_o but_o not_o to_o limit_v they_o who_o to_o choose_v but_o when_o the_o church_n have_v no_o such_o guide_n as_o by_o death_n and_o other_o way_n it_o may_v fall_v out_o shall_v they_o then_o lose_v their_o right_n of_o choose_v if_o so_o let_v it_o be_v show_v to_o who_o the_o right_a fall_n they_o may_v take_v what_o counsel_n and_o help_v from_o other_o they_o want_v but_o the_o choice_n be_v only_o in_o they_o and_o therefore_o this_o limitation_n be_v needless_a for_o the_o number_n of_o two_o or_o three_o we_o contend_v not_o but_o such_o church_n as_o the_o apostle_n gather_v be_v particular_a congregation_n and_o therefore_o the_o right_n be_v in_o such_o be_v they_o more_o or_o few_o when_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o our_o minister_n intrude_v themselves_o into_o church_n no_o say_v dr._n field_n for_o the_o people_n elect_v they_o which_o they_o may_v lawful_o do_v and_o separate_v from_o wicked_a minister_n which_o he_o prove_v by_o the_o testimony_n of_o cyprian_a write_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o spain_n not_o to_o communicate_v with_o basilides_n and_o martialis_n who_o fall_v to_o idolatry_n in_o time_n of_o persecution_n quando_fw-la ipsa_fw-la plebs_fw-la potestatem_fw-la habet_fw-la etc._n etc._n also_o from_o ocham_n who_o say_v si_fw-mi papa_n &_o maxim_n celebres_fw-la episcopi_fw-la incidunt_fw-la in_o haeresin_fw-la ad_fw-la catholicos_fw-la devoluta_fw-la est_fw-la potestas_fw-la omnis_fw-la judicandi_fw-la to_o which_o he_o add_v this_o reason_n either_o they_o must_v separate_v from_o they_o and_o choose_v other_o or_o consent_v to_o their_o impiety_n field_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 39_o what_o follow_v in_o this_o place_n be_v little_a to_o this_o point_n and_o for_o the_o most_o part_v not_o scruple_v by_o we_o and_o what_o be_v not_o acknowledge_v by_o we_o we_o shall_v have_v a_o fit_a occasion_n to_o speak_v to_o it_o therefore_o here_o we_o pass_v it_o over_o reply_n proposi_fw-la 4._o that_o all_o those_o who_o desire_v seal_n be_v bind_v to_o join_v themselves_o in_o church_n fellowship_n that_o so_o they_o may_v call_v a_o minister_n to_o dispense_v the_o seal_n unto_o they_o will_v not_o follow_v from_o the_o former_a right_o understand_v for_o they_o must_v partake_v of_o the_o seal_n before_o they_o can_v join_v themselves_o together_o in_o church_n estate_n answ_n to_o this_o objection_n be_v speak_v before_o only_o we_o marvel_v why_o you_o say_v they_o must_v first_o partake_v of_o seal_n when_o as_o act_v 2._o they_o be_v baptize_v and_o add_v to_o the_o church_n the_o same_o day_n and_o it_o be_v grant_v the_o apostle_n gather_v church_n by_o baptism_n reply_n such_o as_o for_o lack_v of_o mean_n and_o opportunity_n can_v join_v in_o such_o estate_n or_o be_v disperse_v persecution_n or_o destitute_a of_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n may_v for_o a_o time_n seek_v the_o seal_n in_o other_o society_n answ_n the_o first_o instance_n be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o such_o as_o may_v come_v to_o any_o society_n to_o desire_v seal_n be_v not_o whole_o destitute_a of_o mean_n and_o opportunity_n to_o join_v viz._n to_o that_o society_n the_o two_o other_o instance_n be_v of_o such_o as_o may_v be_v suppose_v still_o to_o hold_v their_o right_n in_o a_o church_n society_n the_o thing_n iâ—…_n grant_v by_o we_o in_o way_n of_o communion_n of_o church_n reply_n the_o people_n also_o who_o be_v deprive_v
subject_n according_a to_o order_n of_o all_o such_o institution_n otherwise_o we_o must_v admit_v private_a baptism_n if_o the_o extraordinary_a example_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v press_v for_o our_o pattern_n reply_n then_o the_o apostle_n in_o dispense_n seal_v walk_v by_o rule_n of_o scripture_n and_o ground_n common_a to_o we_o and_o then_o the_o difficulty_n remain_v be_v only_o this_o whether_o a_o pastor_n may_v dispense_v seal_n to_o such_o as_o have_v right_a to_o they_o and_o do_v orderly_o desire_v they_o though_o he_o be_v not_o yet_o a_o set_a member_n of_o a_o congregation_n answ_n we_o grant_v the_o apostle_n ordinary_o and_o general_o baptize_v upon_o common_a ground_n but_o still_o when_o they_o do_v so_o they_o receive_v they_o into_o some_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o baptize_v they_o and_o in_o the_o like_o orderly_a way_n any_o pastor_n may_v do_v the_o same_o second_o we_o answer_v thing_n may_v be_v do_v sano_fw-la sensu_fw-la upon_o common_a and_o moral_a ground_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o be_v do_v by_o other_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n to_o give_v one_o instance_n in_o stead_n of_o many_o the_o apostle_n preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o gather_v in_o the_o elect_a of_o god_n and_o to_o edify_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o minister_n upon_o the_o same_o common_a ground_n must_v now_o preach_v the_o gospel_n also_o yet_o in_o that_o the_o apostle_n on_o those_o ground_n preach_v to_o all_o nation_n this_o do_v not_o warrant_v minister_n now_o to_o do_v the_o like_a so_o here_o though_o we_o baptize_v believer_n as_o they_o do_v yet_o we_o may_v not_o do_v it_o to_o all_o in_o all_o case_n as_o they_o do_v and_o therefore_o the_o rule_n hold_v only_o when_o all_o circumstance_n be_v alike_o as_o well_o as_o the_o common_a ground_n reply_n second_o in_o the_o instance_n give_v it_o be_v not_o probable_a that_o baptism_n be_v evermore_o administer_v by_o the_o apostle_n or_o evangelist_n for_o before_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n the_o disciple_n baptize_v when_o they_o be_v neither_o apostle_n nor_o evangelist_n proper_o after_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n if_o philip_n ananias_n and_o other_o may_v baptize_v such_o as_o be_v no_o member_n of_o particular_a congregation_n then_o may_v ordinary_a pastor_n do_v the_o like_a answ_n you_o mistake_v here_o in_o the_o force_n of_o our_o answer_n as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o first_o consideration_n to_o which_o this_o objection_n and_o answer_n belong_v for_o we_o do_v not_o make_v all_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n extraordinary_a but_o general_o orderly_a in_o the_o way_n we_o profess_v second_o we_o answer_v to_o the_o particular_n not_o to_o wrestle_v with_o the_o ghost_n of_o humane_a imagination_n and_o conjecture_n whether_o any_o beside_o the_o apostle_n baptize_v the_o 3000._o act._n 2._o as_o for_o philip_n and_o ananias_n if_o they_o baptize_v do_v they_o baptize_v as_o private_a man_n or_o as_o church_n officer_n if_o the_o second_o what_o officer_n be_v they_o ordinary_a or_o extraordinary_a we_o think_v it_o will_v not_o be_v think_v they_o be_v ordinary_a who_o be_v honour_v with_o such_o extraordinary_a work_n but_o in_o what_o office_n soever_o they_o be_v those_o particular_a action_n in_o baptise_v the_o eunuch_n and_o paul_n be_v do_v by_o a_o immediate_a call_n of_o god_n as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o story_n reply_n three_o it_o be_v very_o improbable_a that_o the_o person_n baptize_v be_v in_o church_n state_n or_o order_n if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v this_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o man_n have_v not_o right_a to_o baptism_n because_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n but_o because_o disciple_n and_o as_o you_o say_v join_v together_o in_o covenant_n etc._n etc._n answ_n we_o grant_v that_o since_o the_o visible_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n be_v set_v up_o in_o visible_a christian_a church_n the_o seal_n belong_v proper_o and_o ordinary_o to_o the_o member_n of_o christian_a church_n not_o jewish_a yet_o we_o may_v affirm_v that_o if_o in_o any_o special_a case_n a_o believer_n be_v baptize_v by_o any_o that_o have_v a_o special_a call_v thereto_o where_o there_o be_v no_o christian_a church_n present_v actual_o to_o join_v unto_o yet_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v the_o case_n do_v not_o so_o much_o vary_v from_o the_o set_a order_n of_o christ_n in_o those_o time_n and_o that_o be_v all_o we_o intend_v reply_n if_o the_o eunuch_n and_o centurion_n be_v proselyte_n and_o of_o the_o jewish_a church_n the_o samâ—…ritans_n who_o philip_n baptize_v be_v not_o so_o and_o that_o any_o gentile_n or_o the_o jailor_n be_v set_v member_n of_o a_o christian_a assembly_n be_v very_o strange_a etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o be_v full_o answer_v before_o in_o the_o first_o consideration_n and_o that_o which_o be_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n and_o mind_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o first_o and_o common_a practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n act._n 2._o to_o join_v man_n to_o the_o church_n when_o they_o baptize_v they_o need_v not_o seem_v strange_a reply_n in_o the_o apostle_n practise_v two_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v consider_v first_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o action_n second_o the_o substance_n or_o quality_n of_o the_o act._n in_o some_o circumstance_n the_o baptise_v of_o some_o of_o these_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o the_o substance_n and_o quality_n of_o the_o action_n be_v ground_v upon_o rule_n perpetual_a and_o common_a to_o we_o and_o they_o that_o be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n etc._n etc._n answ_n 1_o we_o suppose_v among_o such_o circumstance_n you_o will_v reckon_v that_o for_o one_o that_o the_o eunuch_n be_v baptize_v alone_o in_o the_o wilderness_n not_o in_o any_o visible_a assembly_n of_o saint_n wherein_o ordinary_a pastor_n may_v not_o imitate_v that_o act_n and_o this_o come_v not_o far_o short_a of_o what_o we_o say_v for_o the_o chief_a proof_n that_o they_o be_v not_o receive_v into_o a_o particular_a church_n lie_v in_o their_o absence_n from_o such_o a_o assembly_n and_o if_o they_o may_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o catholic_n church_n without_o the_o presence_n of_o any_o christian_a but_o he_o that_o baptize_v they_o why_o not_o into_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o well_o 2_o the_o large_a discourse_n about_o the_o apostle_n extraordinary_a power_n and_o do_v thing_n upon_o common_a ground_n be_v so_o oft_o say_v for_o substance_n and_o answer_v before_o that_o it_o be_v vain_a to_o trouble_v the_o reader_n again_o with_o the_o same_o thing_n reply_n second_o a_o argument_n follow_v necessary_o from_o a_o particular_a example_n to_o a_o general_a when_o the_o proof_n of_o one_o particular_a to_o another_o be_v make_v by_o force_n of_o the_o similitude_n common_a to_o the_o whole_a kind_n under_o which_o those_o particular_n be_v contain_v now_o in_o this_o matter_n we_o speak_v of_o no_o reason_n can_v be_v name_v why_o we_o shall_v think_v it_o lawful_a for_o the_o apostle_n to_o baptize_v such_o as_o be_v no_o set_a member_n and_o the_o same_o shall_v be_v unlawful_a in_o all_o case_n for_o pastor_n of_o particular_a congregation_n answ_n we_o deny_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v so_o ordinary_o and_o therefore_o your_o argument_n do_v not_o hold_v if_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o the_o common_a practice_n but_o if_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o some_o few_o special_a case_n we_o retort_v the_o argument_n thus_o that_o which_o the_o apostle_n do_v ordinary_o upon_o common_a ground_n that_o pastor_n ought_v to_o do_v but_o ordinary_o they_o baptize_v disciple_n admit_v they_o first_o into_o particular_a church_n therefore_o in_o the_o three_o reason_n we_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n of_o it_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v walk_v by_o ordinary_a rule_n general_o reply_n four_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o receive_v the_o faithful_a etc._n etc._n be_v back_v on_o divine_a precept_n etc._n etc._n answ_n if_o you_o mean_v they_o baptize_v such_o without_o receive_v they_o into_o some_o particular_a church_n we_o deny_v this_o assumption_n upon_o the_o ground_n lay_v down_o before_o reply_n five_o in_o the_o first_o consideration_n you_o prove_v the_o seal_n to_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n in_o ordinary_a dispensation_n by_o this_o passage_n of_o scripture_n then_o they_o that_o glad_o receive_v the_o word_n be_v baptize_v but_o if_o the_o apostle_n baptizâ—…d_v by_o extraordinary_a dispensation_n in_o your_o sense_n this_o testimony_n be_v insufficient_a for_o that_o purpose_n answ_n although_o the_o print_a copy_n of_o our_o answer_n omit_v this_o proof_n whole_o and_o also_o rom._n 9.4_o yet_o in_o our_o true_a cypy_n we_o allege_v act_v 2_o 41_o 42.47_o wherein_o you_o will_v find_v not_o only_o this_o passage_n then_o they_o that_o glad_o receive_v
affirm_v that_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o transact_v all_o thing_n in_o the_o church_n be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o officer_n who_o minister_v in_o the_o name_n and_o power_n of_o christ_n to_o and_o over_o the_o church_n and_o that_o the_o power_n or_o liberty_n of_o the_o community_n whereby_o they_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o concur_v with_o their_o guide_n so_o long_o as_o they_o rule_v in_o the_o lord_n be_v to_o be_v carry_v in_o a_o way_n of_o obedience_n unto_o they_o and_o when_o upon_o just_a cause_n they_o dissent_v from_o they_o still_o they_o be_v to_o walk_v respectful_o towards_o they_o and_o we_o think_v our_o brethren_n be_v not_o ignorant_a that_o mr._n parker_n and_o fenner_n give_v as_o much_o to_o the_o church_n in_o excommunication_n as_o we_o have_v plead_v for_o in_o any_o of_o our_o public_a write_n but_o see_v we_o be_v lead_v by_o this_o learned_a author_n from_o this_o particular_a question_n about_o excommunication_n to_o that_o beat_a controversy_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n in_o general_a and_o the_o first_o subject_n thereof_o whereby_o we_o be_v force_v to_o declare_v ourselves_o herein_o we_o shall_v brief_o glean_v up_o some_o few_o of_o our_o scatter_a apprehension_n as_o may_v most_o concern_v the_o case_n in_o hand_n 1_o there_o be_v divers_a key_n that_o be_v diverse_o distribute_v to_o several_a subject_n in_o respect_n of_o execution_n and_o therefore_o the_o question_n shall_v have_v be_v first_o state_v and_o what_o key_n be_v deny_v to_o the_o people_n and_o appropriate_v to_o the_o officer_n and_o what_o to_o some_o officer_n not_o to_o other_o shall_v have_v be_v show_v before_o argument_n be_v press_v com._n 2_o the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n be_v mix_v of_o a_o aristocracy_n to_o which_o belong_v office_n and_o democracy_n to_o which_o belong_v privilege_n hence_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v twofold_a 1_o official_a official_a power_n 2_o fraternal_a the_o first_o belong_v to_o the_o guide_v of_o the_o church_n the_o other_o to_o the_o fraternity_n thereof_o 3_o the_o official_a power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v a_o power_n to_o act_v with_o authority_n in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n ministerial_o in_o open_v and_o shut_v bind_v and_o lose_v etc._n etc._n in_o respect_n of_o which_o office_n while_o the_o minister_n act_v according_a to_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n he_o be_v over_o the_o church_n in_o thing_n proper_o ecclesiastical_a because_o he_o stand_v in_o the_o room_n of_o christ_n and_o come_v in_o his_o name_n and_o hence_o in_o those_o church_n act_n which_o be_v not_o proper_a to_o he_o but_o common_a in_o some_o case_n to_o the_o fraternity_n yet_o there_o be_v a_o office-authority_n upon_o they_o which_o be_v not_o upon_o the_o like_a act_n material_o do_v by_o other_o ex._n gr_n any_o brother_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o exhort_v and_o rebuke_v 1_o thes_n 5.14_o heb._n 3.13_o titus_n a_o minister_n be_v exhort_v to_o do_v the_o same_o thing_n but_o with_o all_o authority_n titus_n 2.15_o some_o able_a and_o gift_a though_o not_o in_o office_n may_v occasional_o open_v and_o apply_v the_o word_n yet_o not_o with_o a_o office-authority_n but_o a_o officer_n preach_v as_o a_o ambassador_n of_o christ_n 2_o cor._n 5._o so_o also_o in_o admission_n of_o member_n and_o cast_v out_o of_o offender_n wherein_o though_o the_o fraternity_n have_v a_o power_n whether_o in_o consent_v or_o otherwise_o yet_o they_o act_v obediential_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o guide_n declare_v the_o rule_n go_v before_o they_o in_o example_n and_o command_v they_o if_o need_v be_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n to_o do_v his_o pleasure_n but_o the_o officer_n act_v in_o these_o thing_n in_o the_o name_n and_o authority_n of_o he_o in_o who_o room_n they_o stand_v and_o hence_o we_o think_v that_o in_o case_n the_o fraternity_n without_o officer_n shall_v cast_v out_o any_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o altogether_o the_o same_o with_o that_o which_o may_v be_v dispense_v by_o the_o officer_n thereof_o it_o be_v no_o official_a act_n 2_o fraternal_a power_n in_o public_a church_n act_n be_v a_o joint_a power_n of_o liberty_n or_o privilege_n in_o some_o sense_n &_o in_o some_o case_n to_o open_v &_o shut_v which_o power_n be_v not_o in_o any_o one_o or_o more_o several_o but_o in_o the_o whole_a joint_o for_o as_o they_o have_v power_n to_o combine_v and_o so_o to_o receive_v other_o into_o the_o communion_n so_o by_o like_a reason_n to_o shut_v out_o offender_n from_o their_o communion_n but_o thus_o they_o do_v fraternal_o not_o official_o and_o as_o they_o have_v such_o a_o power_n of_o election_n of_o officer_n to_o they_o so_o they_o have_v also_o a_o fraternal_a power_n due_a order_n be_v attend_v to_o shut_v they_o out_o when_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n according_a to_o the_o common_a receive_v rule_n cujus_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la &_o destituere_fw-la these_o thing_n which_o may_v be_v more_o full_o explain_v and_o confirm_v we_o have_v only_o brief_o set_v down_o both_o to_o wash_v off_o the_o blot_n of_o popular_a government_n from_o the_o way_n of_o christ_n as_o if_o all_o authority_n be_v take_v from_o the_o minister_n or_o nothing_o leave_v they_o but_o to_o dispense_v the_o seal_n and_o in_o all_o other_o thing_n to_o â—…it_v mere_o as_o a_o moderator_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o we_o utter_o disclaim_v and_o also_o to_o make_v way_n for_o our_o more_o clear_a answer_n to_o what_o be_v object_v here_o in_o the_o reply_n we_o grant_v therefore_o the_o first_o argument_n and_o the_o conclusion_n thereof_o thus_o far_o that_o the_o official_a power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v not_o give_v to_o the_o whole_a multitude_n but_o only_o there_o be_v give_v to_o they_o a_o power_n to_o choose_v officer_n which_o officer_n shall_v execute_v the_o same_o reply_n 2_o if_o christ_n give_v this_o power_n to_o the_o community_n be_v it_o from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o church_n or_o take_v it_o effect_v after_o the_o church_n be_v plant_v not_o the_o first_o for_o then_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o shall_v derive_v their_o power_n from_o the_o community_n which_o they_o do_v not_o answ_n this_o reason_n be_v answer_v before_o so_o far_o as_o concern_v our_o tenant_n in_o the_o second_o consideration_n where_o it_o be_v allege_v to_o which_o we_o refer_v the_o reader_n neither_o do_v we_o say_v the_o official_a power_n be_v so_o give_v to_o the_o community_n but_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v here_o add_v we_o shall_v consider_v so_o far_o as_o concern_v we_o reply_n the_o apostle_n and_o other_o governor_n be_v give_v of_o christ_n to_o the_o church_n as_o for_o their_o end_n and_o all_o their_o authority_n be_v give_v unto_o they_o for_o the_o church_n as_o for_o the_o whole_a but_o the_o authority_n itself_o be_v immediate_o derive_v from_o christ_n and_o be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n as_o the_o immediate_a subject_n nor_o derive_v from_o the_o church_n but_o from_o christ_n the_o king_n of_o the_o church_n the_o authority_n of_o governor_n be_v give_v of_o christ_n for_o a_o gift_n to_o the_o church_n but_o not_o a_o gift_n absolute_a that_o it_o may_v reside_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o for_o a_o conditional_a gift_n communicate_v to_o the_o governor_n for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o whole_a parker_n pol._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 8._o answ_n 1_o concern_v the_o power_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o extraordinary_a officer_n we_o now_o dispute_v not_o it_o be_v answer_v before_o and_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o other_o officer_n we_o do_v not_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o church_n but_o from_o christ_n for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o church_n but_o if_o the_o question_n be_v of_o the_o application_n of_o a_o office_n and_o the_o power_n of_o it_o to_o such_o and_o such_o person_n in_o the_o church_n we_o will_v demand_v whether_o christ_n do_v this_o to_o such_o a_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n immediate_o or_o mediate_o if_o immediate_o than_o their_o call_n be_v not_o in_o this_o different_a from_o apostle_n which_o paul_n express_o distinguish_v gal._n 1.1_o paul_n be_v a_o apostle_n not_o of_o man_n nor_o by_o man_n but_o of_o god_n and_o by_o jesus_n christ_n false_a teacher_n be_v of_o man_n and_o by_o man_n true_a pastor_n as_o thomas_n john_n etc._n etc._n be_v of_o god_n by_o man_n and_o if_o christ_n communicate_v this_o office_n and_o the_o authority_n annex_v unto_o it_o mediate_o by_o man_n not_o immediate_o the_o question_n be_v who_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o this_o power_n to_o call_v and_o so_o to_o apply_v this_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n to_o this_o or_o that_o person_n john_n thomas_n etc._n etc._n we_o hold_v this_o fraternal_a ministerial_a power_n under_o christ_n
be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o far_o we_o shall_v defend_v this_o position_n and_o wherever_o it_o be_v else_o place_v it_o will_v be_v subject_a to_o all_o the_o absurdity_n that_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o to_o the_o sentence_n of_o parker_n we_o answer_v that_o the_o misinterpret_v one_o word_n of_o his_o sentence_n do_v pervert_v his_o whole_a meaning_n his_o word_n be_v pro_fw-la dono_fw-la conditionali_fw-la ut_fw-la rectoribus_fw-la communicetur_fw-la i._n e._n that_o the_o church_n may_v not_o communicate_v that_o power_n to_o officer_n nor_o keep_v it_o in_o her_o own_o hand_n or_o that_o it_o may_v be_v communicate_v from_o christ_n by_o the_o church_n and_o this_o will_v appear_v his_o meaning_n and_o it_o agree_v with_o that_o position_n he_o hold_v so_o strong_o that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n reply_n after_o the_o church_n be_v establish_v it_o take_v not_o effect_n for_o it_o be_v no_o where_o find_v in_o scripture_n that_o christ_n first_o commit_v this_o power_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o after_o to_o the_o community_n the_o minister_n and_o guide_n be_v immediate_o of_o jesus_n christ_n from_o who_o immediate_o they_o derive_v their_o power_n and_o authority_n by_o who_o they_o be_v set_v over_o their_o charge_n in_o who_o name_n they_o execute_v their_o office_n etc._n etc._n yea_o pastorship_n be_v the_o gift_n of_o christ_n as_o well_o as_o apostleship_n and_o every_o pastor_n be_v not_o immediate_o call_v but_o the_o office_n and_o order_n of_o pastor_n the_o call_n authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n not_o from_o the_o church_n answ_n first_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n in_o a_o right_a sense_n give_v to_o the_o church_n take_v effect_n from_o the_o begin_n in_o christ_n institution_n and_o in_o the_o frequent_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v show_v before_o and_o therefore_o this_o be_v needless_a to_o be_v prove_v that_o it_o take_v effect_v after_o second_o that_o minister_n and_o guide_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n if_o you_o mean_v ordinary_a officer_n and_o that_o every_o pastor_n be_v not_o immediate_o call_v seem_v to_o be_v a_o contradiction_n the_o place_n act._n 28.8_o ephes_n 4_o 8._o etc._n etc._n do_v not_o prove_v that_o all_o officer_n be_v immedate_o from_o christ_n though_o they_o be_v set_v in_o the_o church_n by_o christ_n and_o over_o the_o church_n by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n etc._n etc._n this_o the_o lord_n can_v do_v and_o do_v do_v by_o the_o mean_n of_o his_o church_n walk_v according_a to_o his_o rule_n and_o institution_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v come_v at_o last_o home_n to_o our_o tenant_n as_o here_o you_o do_v that_o pastorship_n the_o office_n power_n jurisdiction_n etc._n etc._n annex_v to_o it_o be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n viz._n by_o his_o institution_n in_o the_o gospel_n but_o pastor_n every_o one_o that_o receive_v this_o office_n have_v it_o from_o christ_n but_o by_o his_o church_n call_v they_o to_o the_o same_o and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n apply_v it_o to_o they_o and_o thus_o far_o we_o agree_v with_o you_o reply_n the_o steward_n be_v appoint_v of_o the_o master_n of_o the_o family_n alone_o and_o have_v all_o his_o authority_n from_o he_o every_o ambassador_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o embassage_n do_v immediate_o depend_v upon_o he_o from_o who_o he_o be_v send_v but_o if_o the_o function_n order_n and_o authority_n of_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n than_o it_o be_v not_o receive_v from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o immediate_a receptacle_n answ_n answ_n first_o though_o pastor_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o function_n dispense_v the_o word_n and_o other_o mystery_n of_o christ_n as_o from_o he_o immediate_o and_o so_o be_v fit_o compare_v to_o ambassador_n and_o steward_n yet_o in_o the_o call_n of_o the_o one_o and_o other_o to_o that_o work_n there_o be_v a_o plain_a dissimilitude_n the_o one_o be_v call_v mediate_o the_o other_o immediate_o by_o their_o master_n and_o therefore_o in_o this_o case_n it_o prove_v nothing_o what_o do_v this_o argument_n conclude_v if_o only_o that_o the_o function_n and_o order_n be_v not_o from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o first_o subject_n we_o ready_o grant_v it_o if_o the_o application_n of_o the_o office_n to_o such_o a_o person_n so_o far_o as_o may_v be_v do_v by_o a_o outward_a call_n it_o follow_v not_o at_o all_o for_o the_o function_n and_o office_n may_v be_v from_o christ_n and_o the_o application_n thereof_o by_o the_o church_n reply_n thus_o protestant_n divine_v dispute_v against_o papist_n if_o bishop_n receive_v their_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o exercise_v immediate_o from_o christ_n by_o mandate_n mission_n and_o commission_n from_o he_o than_o not_o from_o the_o pope_n and_o so_o for_o presbyter_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o bishop_n answ_n the_o reason_n and_o ground_n of_o that_o dispute_n be_v because_o the_o pope_n claim_v a_o plenitude_n of_o power_n from_o peter_n whence_o all_o must_v â—…ee_v derive_v to_o all_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n be_v they_o never_o so_o orderly_o choose_v and_o ordain_v in_o their_o own_o esteem_n and_o so_o indeed_o usurp_v the_o prerogative_n of_o christ_n the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n the_o like_a usurpation_n iâ—…_n its_o degree_n be_v in_o the_o bishop_n over_o presbyter_n but_o here_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a the_o church_n clame_v no_o such_o power_n but_o only_o ministerial_a in_o the_o outward_a call_n of_o officer_n according_a to_o his_o direction_n and_o so_o the_o application_n of_o that_o office_n unto_o the_o person_n which_o have_v sufficient_a ground_n of_o scripture_n from_o christ_n and_o therefore_o we_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n viz._n that_o they_o derive_v not_o their_o power_n from_o the_o people_n but_o from_o christ_n by_o mean_n of_o the_o church_n ministerial_o and_o instrumental_o apply_v that_o office_n to_o they_o whereunto_o christ_n have_v annex_v that_o power_n last_o the_o like_a argument_n may_v be_v object_v against_o any_o other_o subject_n of_o this_o power_n you_o can_v or_o will_v suppose_v even_o the_o presbytery_n itself_o reply_n it_o be_v usual_o objâ—…cted_v that_o the_o church_n can_v convey_v what_o she_o never_o have_v but_o the_o people_n may_v elect_v their_o pastor_n whereunto_o the_o answer_n be_v direct_a and_o plain_a nothing_o can_v give_v that_o it_o have_v not_o formal_o or_o virtual_o unless_o it_o give_v it_o as_o a_o instrument_n minister_a to_o one_o that_o have_v it_o but_o so_o it_o may_v give_v what_o it_o never_o have_v nor_o be_v capable_a of_o a_o steward_n may_v give_v all_o the_o office_n in_o his_o master_n house_n as_o ministerial_o execute_v his_o master_n pleasure_n answ_n this_o answer_n do_v not_o satisfy_v for_o we_o can_v put_v off_o our_o old_a principle_n of_o reason_n that_o every_o instrument_n minister_a to_o the_o principal_a cause_n do_v confer_v vim_o ad_fw-la effectum_fw-la and_o so_o far_o or_o in_o what_o sense_n it_o give_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o effect_n in_o that_o sense_n and_o so_o far_o it_o must_v needs_o have_v virtual_o or_o formal_o the_o same_o in_o itself_o if_o a_o conduit_n convey_v water_n ministerial_o from_o the_o fountain_n to_o the_o house_n it_o have_v water_n in_o such_o a_o sense_n as_o it_o do_v concur_v to_o the_o effect_n and_o so_o the_o church_n can_v give_v the_o key_n to_o the_o officer_n as_o a_o instrument_n of_o christ_n but_o it_o must_v be_v grant_v she_o receive_v they_o from_o christ_n virtual_o to_o give_v they_o to_o the_o officer_n second_o for_o the_o instance_n if_o it_o be_v mean_v of_o a_o steward_n give_v the_o office_n to_o such_o person_n as_o his_o master_n have_v name_v thereunto_o and_o he_o instal_v they_o into_o the_o same_o the_o case_n be_v not_o alike_o yet_o here_o he_o must_v have_v some_o power_n and_o authority_n so_o to_o do_v so_o that_o he_o have_v these_o office_n virtual_o in_o his_o hand_n but_o if_o it_o be_v his_o master_n will_n he_o shall_v choose_v what_o person_n he_o see_v fit_a according_a to_o rule_n give_v he_o which_o be_v the_o case_n here_o than_o he_o have_v this_o power_n virtual_o in_o his_o hand_n reply_n three_o if_o ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n be_v in_o the_o multitude_n and_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a the_o church_n do_v not_o only_o call_v but_o make_v officer_n out_o of_o power_n and_o virtue_n receive_v into_o herself_o and_o then_o shall_v the_o church_n have_v a_o true_a lordlike_a power_n in_o regard_n of_o her_o minister_n reply_n answ_n if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o that_o hold_v the_o church_n have_v so_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n in_o herself_o as_o that_o she_o may_v derive_v from_o herself_o authority_n to_o the_o officer_n let_v such_o look_v unto_o the_o
be_v to_o be_v admit_v without_o such_o a_o promise_n include_v a_o necessity_n the_o answer_n speak_v only_o of_o expediency_n and_o agreeablenesse_n to_o rule_v not_o to_o break_v off_o abrupt_o second_o the_o position_n affirm_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o promise_n the_o answer_n speak_v only_o of_o the_o case_n in_o practice_n as_o in_o many_o case_n beside_o for_o the_o watch_n of_o the_o church_n reach_v to_o such_o particular_a act_n of_o which_o we_o make_v no_o promise_n express_v in_o the_o entrance_n three_o the_o position_n speak_v of_o the_o church_n leave_v the_o answer_n acknowledge_v only_o that_o brethren_n remove_v shall_v approve_v themselves_o to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v lawful_a and_o take_v counsel_n in_o such_o weighty_a affair_n by_o all_o which_o it_o appear_v that_o we_o do_v not_o own_o this_o position_n in_o judgement_n nor_o practice_n and_o therefore_o in_o effect_n our_o answer_n do_v deny_v the_o same_o and_o be_v negative_a second_o if_o the_o word_n of_o the_o answer_n be_v not_o full_a enough_o because_o we_o see_v our_o brethren_n here_o run_v upon_o it_o as_o a_o question_n if_o such_o a_o promise_n be_v require_v and_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o other_o take_v it_o up_o as_o a_o confess_a practice_n we_o do_v therefore_o clear_o and_o plain_o deny_v the_o position_n and_o affirm_v that_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o none_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v without_o such_o a_o promise_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o practice_n in_o our_o admission_n of_o member_n to_o require_v such_o a_o promise_n we_o only_o count_v such_o removall_n especial_o of_o family_n a_o action_n among_o many_o other_o whereunto_o the_o watch_n of_o the_o church_n do_v extend_v to_o prevent_v sin_n where_o there_o be_v any_o just_a ground_n of_o suspicion_n thereof_o and_o to_o further_a the_o best_a good_a of_o such_o as_o be_v under_o our_o charge_n by_o counsel_n prayer_n etc._n etc._n if_o any_o minister_n and_o people_n of_o old_a acquaintance_n and_o dear_a affection_n or_o any_o other_o christian_n cleave_v together_o in_o love_n have_v private_o resolve_v or_o agree_v together_o not_o to_o part_v from_o each_o other_o in_o any_o church_n it_o be_v the_o most_o that_o we_o have_v take_v knowledge_n of_o and_o we_o think_v that_o have_v be_v very_o rare_a but_o for_o any_o such_o public_a promise_n covenant_n or_o church_n oath_n as_o some_o strain_v thing_n to_o the_o height_n have_v call_v it_o it_o be_v not_o nor_o have_v be_v require_v or_o practise_v among_o we_o this_o be_v so_o there_o need_v no_o ground_n of_o that_o which_o we_o practise_v not_o reply_n first_o you_o exclude_v all_o such_o as_o be_v not_o set_v member_n from_o the_o seal_n and_o yet_o hinder_v they_o from_o entrance_n into_o the_o church_n society_n because_o they_o can_v promise_v continuance_n in_o the_o place_n they_o be_v resident_a in_o for_o the_o present_a here_o we_o desire_v to_o be_v satisfy_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n by_o what_o you_o require_v it_o etc._n etc._n answ_n first_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o divers_a may_v and_o do_v forbear_v to_o join_v because_o of_o their_o unsettlednesse_n in_o the_o place_n of_o their_o present_a abode_n second_o it_o may_v be_v in_o some_o case_n some_o may_v be_v advise_v by_o the_o counsel_n of_o their_o private_a friend_n in_o a_o church_n to_o forbear_v till_o they_o be_v some_o way_n settle_v but_o that_o any_o be_v debar_v from_o communion_n when_o they_o desire_v it_o because_o they_o can_v promise_v continuance_n unless_o other_o just_a cause_n hinder_v it_o neither_o suit_n with_o our_o judgement_n nor_o practice_n and_o if_o any_o shall_v practice_v other_o way_n we_o do_v not_o allow_v of_o the_o same_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o give_v you_o reason_n of_o what_o we_o practise_v not_o reply_n second_o it_o pertain_v not_o to_o the_o whole_a congregation_n to_o take_v notice_n or_o be_v acquaint_v with_o or_o judge_v of_o every_o particular_a member_n removal_n may_v not_o a_o servant_n remove_v from_o his_o master_n to_o another_o congregation_n or_o a_o father_n bestow_v his_o child_n in_o marriage_n to_o one_o of_o another_o congregation_n but_o the_o whole_a church_n must_v be_v call_v to_o counsel_v in_o the_o matter_n etc._n etc._n when_o church_n grow_v populous_a they_o must_v be_v negligent_a or_o weary_a of_o such_o a_o task_n and_o for_o the_o present_a to_o challenge_v so_o much_o authority_n over_o one_o another_o be_v usurpation_n etc._n etc._n answ_n if_o our_o answer_n be_v but_o attend_v such_o apprehension_n of_o our_o practice_n of_o call_v the_o whole_a church_n to_o counsel_n in_o every_o such_o case_n and_o all_o that_o follow_v may_v be_v spare_v for_o thus_o we_o say_v we_o judge_v it_o expedient_a etc._n etc._n that_o none_o forsake_v fellowship_n and_o abrupt_o break_v off_o etc._n etc._n this_o do_v not_o imply_v a_o necessity_n of_o call_v the_o whole_a church_n to_o counsel_n in_o every_o plain_a and_o easy_a case_n many_o time_n and_o for_o the_o most_o part_n such_o removal_n be_v so_o plain_a and_o free_a from_o suspicion_n of_o abrupt_a break_v off_o or_o forsake_v fellowship_n that_o there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o counsel_n as_o in_o case_n of_o servant_n marriage_n etc._n etc._n and_o therefore_o no_o trouble_n to_o the_o church_n and_o in_o some_o removal_n of_o family_n also_o the_o case_n be_v clear_a and_o open_o carry_v in_o the_o knowledge_n of_o many_o of_o the_o church_n none_o scruple_n it_o and_o therefore_o at_o the_o first_o demand_n of_o dismission_n or_o letter_n of_o recommendation_n the_o same_o be_v grant_v but_o in_o removal_n of_o some_o member_n and_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o same_o there_o be_v such_o difficulty_n and_o danger_n as_o need_v the_o prayer_n and_o counsel_n of_o the_o officer_n and_o whole_a church_n as_o be_v confess_v after_o nor_o do_v we_o say_v it_o pertain_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n to_o be_v call_v to_o counsel_n and_o judge_v of_o every_o particular_a member_n removal_n for_o they_o may_v approve_v themselves_o to_o the_o conscience_n of_o all_o mediate_o by_o advise_v with_o some_o who_o may_v satisfy_v the_o rest_n if_o need_v be_v reply_n let_v it_o be_v show_v that_o ever_o by_o divine_a right_n this_o power_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o church_n and_o we_o will_v confess_v it_o expedient_a but_o till_o then_o we_o think_v the_o church_n over_o rigid_a and_o the_o member_n busy_a body_n etc._n etc._n answ_n the_o rule_n of_o love_n whereby_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o exhort_v admonish_v seek_v the_o edification_n and_o good_a one_o of_o another_o and_o that_o not_o only_o in_o general_n as_o of_o all_o christian_n but_o as_o member_n of_o so_o near_a relation_n in_o one_o church_n body_n who_o be_v bind_v to_o serve_v the_o lord_n with_o one_o shoulder_n zeph._n 3._o â—…_n and_o to_o uphold_v the_o worship_n of_o christ_n therein_o as_o this_o do_v reach_n to_o all_o the_o action_n and_o way_n of_o one_o another_o so_o in_o a_o special_a manner_n to_o such_o a_o action_n as_o this_o iâ—…_n and_o we_o think_v this_o ground_n be_v sufficient_a to_o satisfy_v our_o practice_n as_o we_o have_v declare_v which_o may_v wipe_v off_o the_o aspersion_n of_o be_v rigid_a or_o busybody_n reply_n in_o the_o multitude_n of_o counsellor_n be_v peace_n but_o overmany_a counsellor_n oft_o cause_v distraction_n and_o different_a apprehension_n breed_v delay_n answ_n we_o grant_v it_o may_v do_v so_o neither_o do_v we_o bring_v all_o case_n to_o public_a counsel_n but_o the_o case_n may_v be_v such_o as_o needs_o the_o public_a counsel_n of_o all_o and_o as_o we_o have_v a_o gracious_a promise_n of_o the_o presence_n of_o christ_n in_o his_o church_n who_o be_v the_o counsellor_n so_o we_o confess_v to_o his_o praise_n that_o we_o find_v the_o judgement_n of_o a_o church_n of_o saint_n in_o matter_n orderly_o carry_v and_o gather_v up_o from_o the_o various_a gift_n of_o wisdom_n grace_n and_o experience_n of_o many_o christian_n when_o need_n be_v to_o be_v a_o bless_a privilege_n of_o god_n people_n to_o enjoy_v and_o sanctify_v oft_o to_o the_o great_a good_a of_o his_o saint_n and_o be_v neglect_v and_o slight_v have_v be_v oft_o follow_v with_o sad_a event_n reply_n the_o nature_n of_o your_o church-covenant_n infer_v not_o a_o necessity_n of_o bring_v every_o such_o business_n to_o the_o church_n for_o you_o bind_v yourselves_o mutual_o to_o watch_v one_o over_o another_o etc._n etc._n but_o this_o essential_o tie_v not_o any_o man_n to_o a_o perpetual_a residence_n in_o one_o place_n for_o then_o even_o occasional_a absence_n shall_v be_v a_o breach_n of_o covenant_n without_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n answ_n we_o grant_v our_o church-covenant_n neither_o require_v every_o business_n to_o come_v to_o public_a counsel_n nor_o perpetual_a
be_v baptize_v be_v find_v upon_o careful_a examination_n by_o the_o minister_n before_o the_o other_o church-officer_n to_o have_v a_o competent_a measure_n of_o knowledge_n and_o ability_n to_o examine_v themselves_o and_o profess_v their_o willingness_n to_o submit_v themselves_o to_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n and_o be_v of_o approve_a conversation_n according_a to_o christ_n the_o ignorant_a and_o scandalous_a be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v nor_o those_o of_o another_o congregation_n unless_o they_o have_v sufficient_a testimony_n or_o be_v very_o well_o know_v if_o it_o be_v object_v that_o some_o of_o these_o instance_n concern_v unbaptise_v person_n only_o which_o be_v not_o our_o case_n answ_n 1._o multitude_n of_o baptize_v person_n in_o these_o day_n be_v as_o ignorant_a and_o profane_a as_o some_o unbaptised_a and_o therefore_o as_o apt_a to_o pollute_v god_n ordinance_n 2._o chamiers_fw-fr reason_n why_o unbaptised_a person_n be_v to_o go_v under_o such_o strict_a examination_n hold_v good_a in_o our_o case_n 3._o such_o profession_n of_o faith_n be_v require_v by_o john_n and_o the_o apostle_n of_o those_o that_o be_v church_n member_n before_o reply_n the_o creed_n be_v honour_v by_o the_o ancient_n with_o glorious_a title_n as_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n etc._n etc._n by_o which_o they_o understand_v that_o rule_n of_o faith_n give_v by_o christ_n when_o he_o be_v about_o to_o ascend_v and_o command_v his_o disciple_n say_v go_v teach_v all_o nation_n in_o after_o time_n some_o article_n be_v add_v for_o explanation_n to_o meet_v with_o the_o heresy_n of_o those_o time_n but_o for_o substance_n the_o church_n never_o require_v other_o acknowledgement_n etc._n etc._n answ_n if_o you_o mean_v that_o which_o be_v call_v the_o apostle_n creed_n it_o be_v just_o doubt_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o ancient_a however_o the_o time_n which_o follow_v the_o scripture_n pattern_n be_v both_o obscure_a to_o we_o and_o no_o infallible_a pattern_n yet_o many_o church_n use_v great_a strictness_n as_o be_v show_v in_o receive_v and_o restore_v fall_v member_n and_o if_o afterward_o heresy_n give_v just_a occasion_n to_o require_v further_a profession_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o to_o add_v more_o article_n for_o explanation_n why_o may_v not_o the_o church_n require_v a_o more_o explicate_v confession_n of_o the_o work_n of_o faith_n and_o repentance_n the_o formality_n and_o mere_a outside_n profession_n of_o so_o many_o civilist_n formalist_n and_o atheist_n require_v the_o same_o reply_n if_o you_o put_v man_n to_o declare_v that_o work_n of_o grace_n god_n have_v wrought_v in_o this_o or_o that_o way_n which_o perhaps_o be_v not_o determine_v by_o the_o word_n of_o grace_n at_o least_o not_o agree_v upon_o among_o yourselves_o we_o beseech_v you_o to_o consider_v by_o what_o authority_n you_o do_v it_o and_o upon_o what_o ground_n you_o stand_v answ_n this_o be_v but_o upon_o a_o supposition_n if_o so_o etc._n etc._n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o our_o judgement_n and_o profess_a practice_n to_o limit_v the_o spirit_n of_o grace_n in_o the_o work_n of_o it_o if_o any_o have_v so_o do_v as_o it_o may_v be_v in_o the_o time_n of_o opinion_n prevail_v among_o we_o we_o do_v not_o own_v it_o but_o disapprove_v the_o same_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o to_o see_v any_o have_v some_o way_n or_o by_o some_o mean_n or_o other_o be_v humble_v for_o sin_n bring_v home_o to_o christ_n by_o faith_n or_o have_v any_o breathe_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n with_o a_o life_n answerable_a to_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n chap._n xvi_o position_n 7._o that_o a_o minister_n be_v so_o a_o minister_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n that_o if_o they_o dislike_v he_o or_o leave_v he_o unjust_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n reply_n the_o question_n be_v of_o minister_n unjust_o forsake_v or_o drive_v from_o the_o church_n and_o your_o answer_n be_v for_o most_o part_n of_o minister_n set_v aside_o or_o deprive_v by_o their_o own_o default_n we_o never_o purpose_v to_o speak_v one_o word_n for_o a_o unworthy_a minister_n who_o christ_n have_v put_v out_o of_o office_n and_o therefore_o your_o labour_n to_o prove_v that_o such_o just_o reject_v by_o the_o the_o church_n be_v no_o long_o minister_n may_v well_o have_v be_v save_v answ_n the_o ground_n of_o this_o position_n be_v about_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o minister_n office_n whether_o it_o consist_v in_o his_o office_n relation_n to_o the_o flock_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n the_o former_a part_n of_o our_o answer_n be_v not_o in_o vain_a nor_o the_o ground_n impertinent_a and_o we_o accept_v your_o grant_n of_o it_o that_o a_o minister_n just_o reject_v by_o his_o church_n be_v no_o long_o a_o minister_n then_o we_o infer_v that_o there_o be_v no_o indelible_a character_n in_o the_o office_n but_o that_o his_o ministry_n stand_v in_o relation_n to_o a_o particular_a flock_n not_o to_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o then_o a_o particular_a church_n can_v not_o dissolve_v his_o office_n and_o therefore_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o if_o he_o be_v find_v worthy_a after_o upon_o repentance_n to_o be_v call_v to_o another_o church_n he_o must_v be_v new_o elect_v and_o ordain_v to_o his_o office_n be_v no_o minister_n upon_o his_o just_a depose_n reply_n but_o we_o will_v examine_v your_o conclusion_n upon_o which_o you_o build_v the_o sentence_n which_o you_o pass_v against_o they_o first_o it_o be_v certain_a etc._n etc._n answ_n what_o be_v say_v to_o the_o first_o be_v speak_v before_o and_o we_o will_v not_o repeat_v thing_n in_o vain_a reply_n second_o the_o power_n of_o feed_v which_o the_o minister_n have_v be_v neither_o confine_v to_o one_o society_n only_o nor_o next_o derive_v to_o he_o from_o christ_n by_o the_o church_n the_o office_n and_o authority_n of_o a_o pastor_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n the_o deputation_n of_o the_o person_n which_o christ_n have_v design_v be_v from_o the_o church_n ministerial_o but_o neither_o virtual_o nor_o formal_o answ_n these_o thing_n about_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n by_o the_o church_n be_v also_o speak_v to_o before_o when_o we_o speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o the_o first_o subject_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o the_o assertion_n be_v grant_v these_o thing_n may_v well_o be_v spare_v but_o what_o we_o find_v here_o more_o than_o in_o the_o other_o place_n we_o shall_v consider_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n in_o elect_v her_o officer_n be_v so_o clear_a in_o the_o scripture_n and_o so_o confess_v a_o truth_n by_o the_o godly_a learned_a that_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v yet_o here_o seem_v to_o be_v give_v so_o many_o restriction_n in_o the_o case_n that_o they_o much_o abate_v and_o weaken_v this_o great_a and_o precious_a liberty_n and_o power_n give_v by_o the_o lord_n 1._o that_o the_o power_n and_o office_n of_o a_o pastor_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n by_o his_o institution_n be_v grant_v but_o the_o question_n be_v how_o this_o man_n come_v to_o have_v this_o office_n apply_v to_o he_o if_o immediate_o than_o he_o be_v in_o this_o a_o apostle_n if_o mediate_o it_o be_v by_o the_o church_n or_o else_o show_v by_o who_o 2._o that_o the_o church_n choose_v ministerial_o and_o aught_o to_o choose_v who_o christ_n have_v describe_v in_o his_o word_n and_o fit_v with_o gift_n and_o so_o far_o design_v by_o christ_n we_o grant_v but_o what_o if_o there_o be_v twenty_o such_o which_o of_o they_o do_v christ_n design_n but_o who_o the_o church_n free_o choose_v and_o therefore_o that_o be_v no_o diminution_n of_o their_o power_n that_o they_o must_v choose_v ministerial_o and_o who_o christ_n so_o design_n the_o case_n be_v alike_o in_o all_o other_o ordinance_n dispense_v examination_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n by_o his_o institution_n the_o person_n to_o be_v censure_v be_v design_v or_o describe_v by_o christ_n a_o notorious_a or_o obstinate_a sinner_n the_o church_n 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the_o marriage_n consist_v in_o the_o mutual_a consent_n and_o promise_v of_o the_o child_n that_o marry_v and_o so_o here_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v must_v lie_v in_o the_o election_n of_o the_o church_n and_o acceptance_n of_o the_o minister_n which_o be_v not_o avoid_v but_o by_o the_o similitude_n confirm_v it_o be_v a_o duty_n of_o neighbour_n church_n to_o lend_v their_o help_n to_o their_o brethren_n in_o election_n of_o their_o minister_n when_o the_o scripture_n will_v we_o to_o exhort_v one_o another_o or_o admonish_v one_o another_o it_o be_v not_o only_o a_o command_n to_o every_o singular_a person_n towards_o his_o fellow_n but_o also_o to_o any_o whole_a company_n answ_n we_o grant_v all_o this_o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o a_o church_n be_v it_o weak_a or_o strong_a to_o take_v all_o needful_a counsel_n advise_v or_o exhortation_n and_o admonition_n in_o so_o weighty_a a_o work_n but_o if_o church_n or_o other_o shall_v impose_v upon_o 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to_o any_o church_n if_o they_o will_v refuse_v he_o or_o who_o shall_v censure_v they_o for_o refuse_v by_o any_o rule_n of_o christ_n reply_n the_o save_a truth_n of_o god_n and_o a_o lawful_a ministry_n be_v both_o essential_a to_o a_o true_a church_n answ_n answ_n what_o then_o become_v of_o the_o church_n when_o the_o minister_n be_v dead_a reply_n the_o true_a church_n have_v continue_v by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n where_o the_o election_n of_o minister_n have_v be_v give_v away_o by_o the_o people_n or_o take_v from_o they_o answ_n true_a but_o it_o have_v be_v continue_v by_o the_o after_o consent_n and_o subjection_n of_o the_o people_n to_o their_o minister_n choose_v by_o other_o else_o they_o must_v needs_o have_v break_v a_o piece_n and_o dissolve_v the_o church_n or_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o choose_v other_o to_o themselves_o which_o still_o show_v that_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o call_n be_v in_o the_o people_n what_o be_v say_v of_o the_o disorder_n of_o ancient_a church_n in_o election_n we_o pass_v over_o as_o nothing_o to_o this_o purpose_n that_o the_o ministry_n may_v be_v lawful_a for_o substance_n where_o there_o be_v many_o defect_n in_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o call_v we_o grant_v the_o church_n at_o length_n consent_v to_o submit_v thereto_o in_o who_o the_o true_a right_n be_v place_v by_o christ_n and_o therefore_o we_o pass_v over_o what_o follow_v to_o that_o purpose_n though_o we_o may_v object_v against_o some_o passage_n in_o the_o discourse_n reply_n as_o for_o the_o second_o branch_n of_o your_o answer_n we_o know_v not_o well_o your_o meaning_n if_o this_o be_v your_o mind_n that_o a_o minister_n lawful_o call_v and_o set_v over_o the_o congregation_n be_v to_o be_v esteem_v a_o minister_n in_o the_o usual_a church_n aâ—…_n the_o particular_a church_n have_v unity_n with_o and_o be_v part_n of_o the_o universal_a or_o catholic_a and_o as_o a_o party_n baptize_v be_v not_o baptize_v into_o that_o congregation_n only_o but_o into_o all_o church_n and_o that_o the_o ministry_n be_v one_o cujus_fw-la a_o singulis_fw-la in_o solidum_fw-la pars_fw-la tenetur_fw-la as_o cyprian_n speak_v and_o therefore_o though_o the_o minister_n be_v unjust_o cast_v off_o by_o one_o congregation_n yet_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v esteem_v as_o no_o minister_n we_o free_o consent_v but_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o he_o be_v only_o by_o right_a a_o minister_n of_o that_o particular_a congregation_n because_o unjust_o depose_v as_o former_o in_o the_o execution_n of_o his_o office_n he_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o they_o only_o and_o to_o no_o other_o society_n whatsoever_o or_o in_o what_o respect_n soever_o your_o opinion_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o universal_a and_o tend_v to_o destroy_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o communion_n which_o the_o church_n of_o god_n ought_v to_o have_v one_o with_o another_o answ_n first_o if_o our_o meaning_n be_v doubtful_a see_v these_o expression_n do_v not_o well_o suit_n our_o notion_n nor_o full_o enter_v into_o our_o understanding_n we_o shall_v give_v the_o meaning_n of_o our_o answer_n distinct_o and_o then_o consider_v what_o be_v here_o say_v first_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o the_o unjust_a leave_v or_o cast_v off_o a_o minister_n without_o all_o orderly_a proceed_n against_o he_o and_o the_o unjust_a depose_v he_o in_o a_o orderly_a way_n of_o church_n censure_n if_o the_o question_n be_v take_v in_o the_o first_o sense_n he_o remain_v every_o way_n and_o in_o every_o respect_n by_o right_a a_o minister_n as_o he_o be_v before_o except_o he_o reject_v they_o and_o so_o dissolve_v the_o relation_n that_o be_v between_o they_o but_o if_o the_o question_n speak_v of_o a_o orderly_a censure_n of_o deposition_n unjust_o than_o we_o judge_v of_o that_o case_n as_o we_o will_v do_v in_o any_o other_o censure_n of_o a_o member_n by_o excommunication_n &_o therefore_o we_o say_v he_o be_v still_o a_o minister_n in_o fâ—…ro_fw-la interno_fw-la before_o christ_n for_o clavis_fw-la errans_fw-la non_fw-la ligat_fw-la second_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o church_n he_o have_v still_o right_a true_o to_o minister_v to_o they_o and_o be_v their_o minister_n though_o unjust_o hinder_v in_o the_o execution_n of_o his_o ministry_n as_o a_o member_n unjust_o censure_v have_v a_o true_a right_n to_o the_o ordinance_n and_o membership_n though_o unjust_o hinder_v from_o the_o same_o though_o in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la we_o grant_v to_o they_o or_o in_o their_o account_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n as_o a_o person_n excommunicate_v be_v to_o they_o no_o member_n three_o in_o respect_n of_o other_o church_n if_o it_o do_v appear_v unto_o they_o that_o he_o be_v unjust_o depose_v they_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o esteem_v he_o still_o and_o receive_v he_o and_o have_v
communion_n with_o he_o as_o a_o true_a minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n in_o the_o church_n he_o do_v belong_v to_o as_o they_o may_v do_v with_o a_o member_n unjust_o cast_v out_o but_o till_o that_o appear_v unto_o they_o they_o can_v so_o esteem_v and_o honour_v he_o be_v orderly_o depose_v but_o must_v at_o least_o suspend_v their_o judgement_n till_o the_o case_n be_v clear_v four_o we_o answer_v clear_o and_o plain_o to_o the_o chief_a scope_n of_o the_o question_n if_o a_o minister_n be_v unjust_o depose_v or_o forsake_v by_o his_o particular_a church_n and_o he_o also_o withal_o renounce_v and_o forsake_v they_o so_o far_o as_o all_o office_n and_o relation_n between_o they_o cease_v then_o be_v he_o no_o long_o a_o officer_n or_o pastor_n in_o any_o church_n of_o god_n whatsoever_o you_o will_v call_v it_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o a_o minister_n office_n in_o the_o church_n be_v no_o indelible_a character_n but_o consist_v in_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o flock_n and_o if_o a_o minister_n once_o ordain_v his_o relation_n cease_v his_o office_n of_o a_o minister_n steward_n of_o the_o mystery_n of_o god_n shall_v still_o remain_v why_o shall_v not_o a_o roll_a elder_a or_o deacon_n remain_v a_o elder_a or_o deacon_n in_o the_o church_n as_o well_o all_o be_v officer_n ordain_v of_o christ_n alike_o give_v to_o his_o church_n officer_n choose_v and_o ordain_v by_o lay_v on_o of_o â—…ands_n alike_o but_o weâ—…_n suppose_v you_o will_v not_o say_v a_o deacon_n in_o such_o a_o case_n shall_v remain_v a_o deacon_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n therefore_o not_o a_o minister_n second_o we_o shall_v now_o consider_v what_o be_v here_o say_v and_o first_o this_o language_n of_o a_o minister_n in_o the_o usual_a church_n as_o a_o particular_a church_n have_v union_n with_o and_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o universal_a it_o be_v a_o unusual_a expression_n to_o we_o and_o to_o the_o scripture_n phrase_n and_o therefore_o bear_v with_o we_o if_o we_o fall_v short_a of_o your_o meaning_n the_o usual_a church_n in_o england_n have_v be_v either_o the_o arch-deacon_n church_n in_o the_o deanaâ—…ies_n or_o diocesan_n in_o the_o bishopric_n or_o provincial_n or_o national_n but_o we_o hope_v that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o intend_a here_o yet_o to_o all_o this_o and_o the_o jurisdiction_n thereof_o particular_a church_n have_v be_v subject_a as_o part_n there_o but_o if_o by_o usual_a church_n you_o mean_v a_o classical_a provincial_n or_o national_n church_n we_o must_v entreat_v better_a ground_n for_o any_o of_o these_o and_o therefore_o we_o must_v confess_v our_o mind_n and_o meaning_n be_v not_o so_o that_o we_o look_v at_o a_o minister_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o any_o such_o relation_n to_o the_o usual_a and_o intermediate_v church_n between_o it_o and_o the_o catholic_a the_o second_o sense_n therefore_o we_o own_o and_o acknowledge_v as_o before_o but_o whether_o this_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o judgement_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n we_o know_v not_o because_o it_o be_v hard_o for_o we_o know_v what_o the_o universal_a church_n judge_v except_o we_o can_v hear_v it_o speak_v or_o see_v its_o practice_n if_o the_o only_a head_n prophet_n and_o shepherd_n of_o the_o church_n jesus_n christ_n be_v fit_a to_o declare_v her_o judgement_n we_o will_v be_v try_v thereby_o who_o we_o know_v have_v set_v elder_n in_o every_o particular_a church_n act._n 14.23_o to_o watch_v over_o their_o particular_a flock_n act._n 20.28_o but_o not_o over_o any_o other_o church_n that_o we_o can_v find_v neither_o do_v this_o destroy_v the_o unity_n or_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n nor_o of_o particular_a church_n one_o with_o another_o as_o be_v say_v for_o church_n may_v enjoy_v brotherly_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o without_o such_o state_v form_n under_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o one_o another_o as_o have_v be_v show_v before_o reply_n for_o if_o he_o be_v not_o a_o minister_n to_o other_o church_n then_o be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o god_n one_o nor_o the_o communion_n which_o they_o have_v together_o on_o nor_o the_o minister_n one_o non_fw-la the_o flock_n which_o they_o feed_v one_o answ_n in_o what_o sense_n be_v intend_v to_o have_v the_o minister_n one_o and_o flock_v one_o we_o do_v not_o see_v if_o you_o mean_v one_o by_o one_o visible_a government_n over_o the_o catholic_a church_n wherein_o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n of_o church_n and_o minister_n you_o must_v at_o last_o rise_v to_o oecomenicall_a pastor_n or_o council_n that_o must_v be_v the_o supreme_a which_o can_v scarce_o ever_o be_v have_v if_o you_o mean_v a_o unity_n by_o brotherly_a communion_n in_o officeâ—…_n of_o love_n and_o mutual_a helpefulnesse_n of_o church_n and_o minister_n without_o usurpation_n such_o a_o unity_n and_o community_n be_v not_o destroy_v and_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o follow_v can_v many_o distinct_a society_n of_o town_n or_o corporation_n make_v up_o one_o county_n except_o the_o major_n or_o constable_n in_o one_o town_n be_v a_o major_n or_o constable_n in_o other_o also_o by_o this_o reason_n the_o deacon_n of_o one_o church_n be_v the_o deacon_n of_o all_o or_o else_o the_o unity_n be_v destroy_v reply_n if_o the_o pastor_n derive_v all_o his_o authority_n from_o the_o church_n when_o the_o church_n have_v set_v he_o aside_o what_o right_o have_v he_o to_o administer_v among_o that_o people_n answ_n true_o but_o we_o say_v he_o derive_v all_o his_o authority_n from_o christ_n by_o the_o church_n indeed_o apply_v that_o office_n to_o he_o to_o which_o the_o authority_n be_v annex_v by_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n hence_o be_v the_o minister_n of_o christ_n unto_o they_o if_o they_o without_o christ_n depose_v he_o they_o hinder_v the_o exercise_n of_o his_o office_n but_o his_o right_n remain_v reply_n as_o they_o give_v right_a to_o a_o unworthy_a man_n to_o minister_v among_o they_o if_o they_o call_v he_o unjust_o so_o they_o take_v right_a from_o the_o worthy_a if_o they_o unjust_o depose_v he_o answ_n we_o grant_v there_o be_v a_o parity_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la but_o as_o in_o the_o call_n his_o outward_a call_v consist_v in_o the_o election_n of_o the_o call_n and_o the_o acceptation_n of_o the_o call_v to_o complete_a his_o power_n of_o administration_n now_o this_o by_o christ_n in_o his_o church_n may_v be_v destroy_v in_o a_o â—…ust_v censure_v without_o his_o consent_n but_o can_v unjust_o be_v wring_v from_o he_o without_o his_o consent_n &_o therefore_o he_o may_v hold_v his_o right_n till_o either_o he_o be_v just_o depose_v or_o willing_o relinquish_v the_o same_o upon_o their_o injurious_a interruption_n of_o the_o use_n of_o his_o right_n reply_n and_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o minister_n be_v for_o the_o ministry_n and_o the_o office_n for_o the_o execution_n and_o so_o the_o pastor_n and_o the_o flock_n be_v relative_n and_o therefore_o if_o their_o election_n give_v he_o authority_n among_o they_o to_o feed_v their_o câ—…sting_v he_o off_o have_v strip_v he_o of_o the_o same_o power_n they_o give_v he_o answ_n we_o grant_v it_o be_v so_o yet_o the_o execution_n may_v be_v unjust_o hinder_v though_o the_o right_n and_o office_n remain_v but_o we_o may_v well_o retort_v this_o argument_n upon_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o usual_a or_o catholic_a church_n thus_o if_o the_o minister_n be_v for_o the_o ministry_n and_o the_o office_n for_o the_o execution_n and_o so_o the_o pastor_n and_o flock_n be_v relative_n than_o he_o that_o may_v just_o for_o ever_o be_v hinder_v of_o all_o execution_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o have_v no_o power_n to_o censure_v his_o flock_n or_o can_v so_o much_o as_o just_o approve_v and_o admonish_v they_o for_o the_o same_o sure_o he_o have_v a_o poor_a office_n and_o ministry_n but_o such_o a_o minister_n that_o have_v no_o particular_a congregation_n that_o be_v his_o flock_n under_o his_o charge_n may_v just_o be_v exclude_v out_o of_o all_o church_n and_o can_v censure_v or_o reprove_v his_o catholic_n or_o usual_a church_n for_o the_o same_o therefore_o he_o be_v indeed_o no_o minister_n and_o and_o have_v no_o office_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n â—…hap_n xvii_o position_n 8._o that_o one_o minister_n can_v perform_v any_o ministerial_a act_n in_o another_o congregation_n reply_n the_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o public_a prayer_n in_o the_o congregation_n meet_v together_o solemn_o to_o worship_n god_n etc._n etc._n be_v proper_o ministerial_a etc._n etc._n answ_n concern_v our_o true_a sense_n and_o meaning_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o this_o position_n we_o have_v speak_v in_o the_o second_o consideration_n of_o the_o second_o and_o three_o position_n to_o which_o we_o refer_v the_o reader_n only_o here_o we_o must_v ingenuous_o confess_v that_o our_o expression_n that_o a_o minister_n exercise_v in_o another_o church_n do_v it_o not_o by_o virtue_n of_o any_o call_n but_o only_o by_o his_o gift_n be_v not_o so_o clear_a but_o may_v occasion_v stumble_v yet_o the_o the_o next_o word_n follow_v do_v full_o express_v our_o mind_n viz._n that_o he_o do_v not_o put_v forth_o such_o a_o ministerial_a act_n of_o authority_n and_o power_n in_o dispense_n of_o god_n ordinance_n as_o a_o minister_n do_v perform_v to_o that_o church_n whereunto_o he_o be_v call_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n for_o so_o he_o do_v not_o perform_v any_o ministerial_a act_n with_o that_o authority_n he_o do_v to_o his_o own_o which_o further_o clear_v up_o our_o expression_n in_o the_o second_o consideration_n viz._n that_o he_o be_v a_o pastor_n of_o none_o but_o his_o proper_a flock_n although_o some_o act_n of_o his_o office_n may_v extend_v beyond_o his_o own_o flock_n as_o we_o have_v show_v before_o and_o therefore_o in_o this_o sense_n we_o may_v still_o conclude_v that_o if_o the_o question_n be_v put_v to_o any_o minister_n so_o exercise_v in_o another_o church_n which_o be_v once_o put_v to_o our_o saviour_n by_o what_o authority_n do_v thou_o these_o thing_n let_v he_o study_v how_o to_o give_v a_o answer_n for_o we_o have_v not_o yet_o learn_v it_o from_o this_o reply_n we_o confess_v there_o be_v some_o godly_a learned_a servant_n of_o christ_n who_o possible_o may_v be_v otherwise_o mind_v and_o think_v that_o a_o minister_n preach_v in_o another_o congregation_n do_v it_o only_o as_o a_o gift_a man_n as_o the_o refuter_fw-la of_o doctor_n downam_n with_o other_o in_o former_a time_n of_o reformation_n believe_v also_o but_o we_o desire_v that_o if_o any_o difference_n appear_v herein_o it_o may_v be_v no_o prejudice_n to_o the_o same_o cause_n for_o substance_n we_o maintain_v if_o by_o sundry_a line_n we_o all_o meet_v at_o last_o in_o the_o same_o point_n finis_fw-la with_fw-mi pet._n mart._n loc._n com._n de_fw-fr excom_n brin_n watch_n part_v 3._o capâ—…_n 10._o jun._n lib._n 1._o paral_n 6._o g._n apol._n cap._n 7._o q._n 2._o ibid._n p._n 138._o peter_n martyr_n in_o 1_o king_n 12._o verse_n 31._o pet._n mart._n com._n loc._n the_o idol_n in_o praeâ—…_n l._n 1._o john_n 2.15_o 16._o conc._n miliv_n can._n 12._o tertull._n apol._n cap._n 30._o vid._n chemnit_fw-la ex._n de_fw-fr innoc._n sanctorum_fw-la vid._n birth_n of_o heresy_n out_o of_o elasopolitans_n comment_n pet._n mart._n loc_n â—…om_n the_o idol_n whit._n de_fw-fr eccle._n 1_o cor._n 15.47_o vid._n brightm_n an._n in_o loc._n cypr._n lib._n 3._o epist_n 13._o cypr._n lib._n 4._o epist_n 7._o 7._o right_o of_o presbyt_fw-la pag._n 482._o page_n 22._o page_n 68_o tertul._n lib._n 4._o com._n mar._n mar._n calvin_n epist_n 332._o chamier_n de_fw-fr euchar_n cap._n 13._o reply_v to_o the_o second_o consideration_n of_o the_o answer_n pet_n mart._n de_fw-fr excom_n loc._n com._n com._n official_a lib._n 1._o cap._n 6.7_o rev._n 2.2_o and_o 3.9_o act_n 2_o 38.8_o â—…7_n 19_o 17_o 18_o â—…_n cham_fw-mi de_fw-fr bap._n lib._n 5._o cap._n 1â—…_n