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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
reason_n	answer_n	objection_n	reply_n	3,529	5	13.8745	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15418	Limbo-mastix: that is, A canuise of Limbus Patrum shewing by euident places of Scripture, inuincible reasons, and pregnant testimonies of some ancient writers, that Christ descended not in soule to Hell, to deliuer the Fathers from thence. Containing also a briefe replie to so much of a pamphlet lately published, intituled, An answere to certaine obiections against the descension &c. as lookes that way, and is personally directed against some writers of our Church.	Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621.	1604 (1604)	STC 25692; ESTC S120030	49,797	70

LIMBO-MASTIX That is A Canuise of Limbus Patrum shewing by euident places of Scripture inuincible reasons and pregnant testimonies of some ancient writers that Christ descended not in soule to Hell to deliuer the Fathers from thence Containing also a briefe replie to so much of a Pamphlet lately published intituled An answere to certaine obiections against the descension c. as lookes that way and is personally directed against some writers of our Church PHILIP 3. 15. Let vs as many as be perfect be thus minded and if ye be otherwise minded God shall reueale euen the same vnto you Augustin de Trinitat lib. 1. c. 3. Siquid erraueris Deus tibi reuelabit siue per occultas inspirationes admonitiones siue per manifesta eloquia siue per fraternas sermocinationes If thou hast any where erred God shall reueale it vnto thee either by secret inspiration and admonition or by manifest Scripture or brotherly conference LONDON Printed for Thomas Man 1604. TO THE MOST HONORABLE SENATE OF THE LORDS SPIRITVALL AND Temporal Knights Burgesses assembled in the high Court of Parliament grace mercie and peace from the Lord Iesus RIght Honourable Lords and ye right Worshipfull Knights and Gentlemen I feared at the first to present this short treatise to your view remembring what sometime I had read in Hierom I am afraide least in doing my dutie I bee thought to be ambitious while I pretend to write should intend to seeke great mens fauour But the Apostles words did more imbolden mee than the others could draw mee back We cannot but speak the things that we haue seene and heard So neither could I containe my selfe hearing of that honourable resolution which is in you all to further the cause of the Church of Christ and true religion but to reioyce in this common ioy and among other welwillers of Sion to testifie our inward ioy and outward thankfulnes to God and you all for the same It is written that the Israelites gathering themselues together against the children of iniquitie the men of Gibeah assembled before the Lord as one man Such a Christian consent hath well appeared in this sacred assemblie to promote Gods glorie and his truth The saying was wont to be The greater part hath ouercome the better but the contrarie is now wel seene and that rule which Plinius Cecilius was wont to prescribe vnto his schoole that hee had worst spoken which had the greatest applause beginneth now to faile in this great Consistorie where the best motions we doubt not but shall haue the greatest applause I know not whereunto better to liken this Christian harmonie than vnto the Seraphims that cried one to another Holy holy holy Lord of hosts and to that heauenly song wherein both the vpper ranke of those foure glorious creatures and the nether order of the foure and twentie Elders consented to giue glorie and honour vnto God that I may say truly in his words That in this reuerent assemblie wee haue a patterne of the heauenlie companie Now we see performed that worthie saying of his excellent Maiestie A godly King findeth as his heart wisheth godly estates concurring with him For as God hath endued his princely hart with a liuely feeling and inward touch of true religion as hee saith It was fit that hee which was superiour in power should not be inferiour in deuotion So your Honours are wee trust those godly states which will be readie to concurre with his Maiestie in establishing of godly lawes Among the rest of the Parliaments in this land one was called the good Parliament another the Parliament that wrought wonders But wee doe all hope that this honourable Session shall rather deserue to be so called That Parliament was of all other the most glorious which in the beginning of worthie Queene Elizabeths raigne restored religion how can this be inferiour which endeuoureth to establish and make better both Church and religion One saith well It is one thing to seeke what thou hast lost another to keepe that thou hast This Church may count her self more happie in holding and encreasing that she hath than when shee was forced to recouer that which she had lost Well may we now say vnto this noble companie as the Prophet to and of Sion Glorious things are spoken of thee O Citie of God We cannot but reioyce to heare of your Honors Christian consultation for the propagating of the Gospell in planting euery where of good pastors that the people may be brought from the darknesse of their ignorance to the light of knowledge that they be no longer children in vnderstanding 1. Cor. 14. 20 and as babes and sucklings in religion Ambrose herein thus pleasantly alludeth vpon these words Woe to them that giue sucke Lot vs make haste to weane our little ones when Isaak was weaned Abraham made a feast the child not weaned was in the night by the drowsie mother ouerlaid Your Honors then do right well to prouide good nurses to weane the people from their ignorance that they be no longer ouerlaid with drowsie and negligent pastors and that such bee not excluded from nursing which haue store of milke in the breasts and seeke in peace and a good conscience to nourish the people of God But because the nurse cannot giue milke that is not first fed her selfe most prudent and christian is that other care to prouide for the maintenance of good pastors which as wee hope will be by our Reuerent Fathers in their graue Synode deuised so we trust it shall by your Honourable fauours be furthered for the Apostle saith The mouth of the oxe is not to be musled And Origene well agreeth Nisi dederit oleum populus extinguetur lucerna in templo If the people minister not oyle the lampe goeth out in the temple Now among other graue matters of deliberation if it were not too great boldnes giue me leaue I beseech you to interpose my petition Saint Paul saith in a case not much vnlike Set vp them which are least esteemed in the Church and I trust you will not despise my simple motion euen the least of the seruants of Christ. Valerius saith well to this point We know the noise of geese is contemned according to the saying a goose among Swannes yet by the chattring of geese the citie of Rome was saued from burning May it therefore please you to heare a foole speak vnto wise men That whereas men haue of late daies taken vnto themselues great libertie in Sermons Lectures writings to set abroach strange vncouth doctrines exorbitant from the current doctrine among Protestants it might please this honourable Court that one vniformitie of doctrine may be taught and held and seeing there are many vnsound doctrines which because they are omitted are not opposite to the articles of religion established that either it might seem pleasing to his Maiestie and you

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he preached doth properly import in Scripture an action of the ministerie of the word performed alwaies by Christ in his humane nature but when the operation of the godhead is intimated the common phrase of Scripture is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he spake by the mouth of the holy Prophets Luk. 1. 70. Ans. p. 31. Answ. 1. And is there not now great difference betweene he preached and he spake by the Prophets Is the diuinitie of Christ said to speake and not to preach as though preaching were not an excellent kinde of speaking and so more proper to the diuine spirit of Christ. 2. But what aileth this man to be so confident to say that the scripture alwaies referreth preaching to Christs humane nature It seemeth hee neuer read the first of the Prouerbs vers 21. Wisdome preacheth in the high waies or streetes of the citie Who else is this wisdome but Christ as he is God 3. And that the Apostle meaneth that Christ preached in his spirit by Noah S. Peter else where sheweth where he calleth Noah the preacher of righteousnesse and so Augustine saith Arcae fabricatio quaedam praedicatio fuit The making of the Arke was a kinde of preaching Argum. 4. The text is not to be read to the spirits which were in prison but the words are the spirits in prison where the greeke participle to be supplied 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being of the present tence is rather to be translated are than were It cannot then be vnderstood of any which were in the prison of hell and are not and so maketh nothing for the harrowing of Hell Obiect 1. The participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is translated by the Latine and Syrian interpreters by the time past which were 2. And it oftentimes doth implie the time past as Ioh. 13. 1. which were in the world Luk. 6. 4. he gaue to them that were with him where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be supplied 3. The Greeke participle here to be supplied as appeareth by some auncient Greeke copies is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enclosed or shut vp which is a participle of the time past Answ. p. 36. 37. Ans. 1. How Translators doe interpret we are not so much to respect as how the originall reedeth therefore because in the autentike Greeke there is no word to expresse were we are not bound to receiue it 2. The places are cited without cause where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is expressed which often serueth for a participle of the pretertense because the verbe is defectiue and hath no other participle to expresse the time past but where it is to bee supplied and not expressed it is seldome or neuer taken for the time past but where the necessitie of the sense enforceth it as in those two places giuen in instance wee must of necessitie reade hee had loued his that were in the worlde and so Luke 6. 4. he speaketh of Dauid that entred into the house of God and gaue to those that were with him otherwise this participle to be supplied betokeneth the time present as Matth. 4. 6. 9. Our father which art in Heauen Matth. 24. 18. He that is in the field Iohn 5. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They which are in the graue So then this article of the present tense being here to be supplied and the sense not enforcing a change of the time doth rather giue to bee translated are than were 3. What though some coppies haue that participle enclosed or shut vp we must followe Augustines rule If the coppies differ the more bookes must be preferred before the fewer and the older before the newer and so hath reuerend Beza done in translating this place and yet if this participle of the preter tense bee yeelded as to say the spirits shut vp in prison will it follow they were shut vp but are not I thinke not as Iohn 20. 19. when the doores shut vp though the doores were shut vp before Christ came yet they were so shut vp in the very instant of his entrance Hebr. 12. 23 the Apostle saith Ye are come c. to the company of the first borne which are written in Heauen yet the participle is of the time past and so in this place the word would well enough beare to be translated which are shut vp in prison c. 4. But what meaneth the Answerer so mightely to striue for this word were doth hee thinke that these disobedient spirits were in hell and are not if he doe not he trifleth for the word were will nothing helpe him if he doe he either must thinke with the Papists that Christ descended to emptie Limbus Patrum or if he thinke that this place is vnderstoode onely of the damned as he seemeth therein to approue the opinion of Thomas Aquinas then holding that these spirits were there and are not hee falleth into a worse error that they which are damned may bee deliuered out of hell contrarie to the Scripture Luke 16. 21. They that would goe from hence to you cannot neither can they come from thence to vs and this opinion by Augustine is counted an heresie to beleeue that any can bee deliuered out of hell Haeres 79. Now let him make his choise whether hee will bee thought a Papist an Heretike or a trifler one of these hee cannot auoide Argum. 5. Augustine againe maketh this obiection If Christ preached to the spirits in hell how commeth it to passe that he preached not to all that were there but onely to those which were incredulous in the daies of Noe or if he preached to all why doth Peter only make mention of those omitting such an innumerable multitude of others The argument may bee framed thus If Christ preached to the spirits in hell he preached to all for they being all in the same place and in the same state of damnation could not be seuered But Christ preached onely to those spirits in hell which had been sometime disobedient in the dayes of Noe whereas there were many there beside for Saint Peter maketh mention of no other preached vnto Ergo he preached not c. Bellarmine here shuffleth vp an answere by retorting Augustines obiection Neither saith hee doth the reason appeare why Christ should bee saide rather to preach in the dayes of Noe rather than of Abraham and other Patriarkes Contra. 1. Then hee graunteth thus much that hee cannot yeelde vs a reason why S. Peter maketh mention onely of those spirits which were disobedient in the time of Noe why then doth he obtrude a senselesse exposition whereof he can giue no reason 2. We can giue him many reasons why Christ is said to haue preached in the daies of Noe rather than in any other time 1. Because he onely was in those dayes in all the world the preacher of righteousnesse 2. Pet. 2. 5. and the like example