Magistrates so to doe whereas indeed we ought the rather to doe good things that are agreeable unto the Word when wee know them to be also commanded by the Christian Magistrate Though we are perswaded by the former reason Yet we doe grant that in some cases conceived prayers are more fit then other to think that stinted formes are so farre from being simply unlawfull as in that in the ordinary and generall occasions of the whole Church they are many times more fit then those that are called conceived prayers Yet it is well knowne that our Law alloweth and our preachers also doe use prayers conceived which we in some cases doe judge more fit to stirre up and expresse the groanes and sighes of the spirit then those prayers doe wherein we tie our selves to prescript words But why doe wee seeke to justifie our prescript Lyturgie before these men who speake as scornefully and profanely of our conceived prayers as they can possibly doe of those which wee read For when Henry Barrow had derided and flouted those that use onely read prayers hee breaketh out into these speeches in the 37. page of his discovery that other smooth hypocrites yet as grosse Idolaters use this viz. the Lords prayer as a clause or supply to their long and prolix prayers conceived before whereby it should seeme that their hatred to us rather then to our corruptions is so great as that whatsoever wee doe will displease them Concerning Homilies this answer wee give The reasons they bring against us for Homilies is of no force That though wee thinke it is not simply unlawfull to reade in our Assemblies such Homilies as are for the matter sound and good yet in regard of the dangerous inconveniences that may come by using them by so many Ministers and Congregations in the Land doe utterly dislike all publike use of them as that we wonder that these men are not ashamed to use this as a reason of their separation from the whole Church But what if all this were granted that the use of our stinted prayers If to have a Drescript form of Lyturgie were Idolatrous yet might we be the true Church for all that Catechismes and Homilies were Idolatrous which yet wee have proved to be otherwise will it from thence follow that we are not that true Church Is this a greater corruption in the worship of God then the retaining of hie places against which there is so expresse a commandement a Deut. 12.2 1 King 11.8 9 1 King 15.14 2 King 15.4 2 King 18.4 2 King 13.6 or then the burning Incense to the Brazen Serpent b and yet it is evident that the one of these was retained in the dayes of Asa and Azariah Kings of Iudah and the other even till Hezekiahs Reigne in which time notwithstanding it is manifest there was a true Church in Judah The testimony of Scripture which they quote in the page 68. of the collection of Letters and Conferences and in the 144. page of their resutations against our prescript Lyturgie are such as either tend generally to the condemning of Idolatrie f Deut. 5.8 9. 1 Chro. 28.10 Revel 22 19. Prov. 30.5 6. Deut. 4.32 Revel 22.18 19 Matth. 15.9 Col. 2.20 23. or such as forbid us to add any thing to the Word of God To the first sort we answer that they have not yet proved our Lyturgie Idolatrie Secondly if they had yet cannot they by these testimonies conclude that therefore they that use it are not the true Church To the other sort of Testimonies this we say that we adde not our Lyturgie unto the Word of God nor make it of equall authoritie with it neither doe we use it to the same ends and purposes that we doe the Scripture Secondly Wee doe wonder with what judgment or Conscience they can blame us for adding to the word by our Lyturgie who will at no hand allow us to use as prayers any of the formes that are set down in the Scripture The reasons also against all formes of Lyturgie The reasons against all formes of Lyturgie are weake and set downe in the 43. page of the collection of slanderous Articles are fond and weake though they seeme to collect them from the Scriptures for wee have above proved that God may be worshipped spiritually and fervently even in that prayer wherein a set and prescript forme of words are used Secondly That this is no good reason the Apostles are not read to have used any set forme of prayer themselves or to have prescribed any to the Churches Ergo they did not use or prescribe any or Ergo the Church might not Thirdly Iohn 4.23 Rom. 8.26 1 Iohn 2.17 1 Cor. 3.11 12 We see not why they may not as strongly reason the spirit helpeth our infirmities and wee have received that anointing and therefore we need not nor may not use any outward helps for our consolation and instruction or for the subduing of our corruptions as this the spirit helps our infirmities c. and we have received that anointing Ergo we need not nor may not use any prescript formes of words as helps in our prayers OBJECT III. The third thing they object against the whole bodie of the Church Object The third Objection against the whole body of our Church is that we want Christs Discipline is this That we want that discipline and order which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the government of the Church for neither have we say they the power to binde or to loose nor those officers by whom the censures of Christ should be exercised Yea saith Henry Barrow in the 160. page of his discoverie You have not any one thing order or administration according to his Testament And in the 188. page such places of Scripture as make expresse mention of Christs discipline as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 15. and 12. 2 Cor. 2 Ephes 4. 2 Thes 3. and 1 Tim. 5.1 are not saith he suffered so much as to be read in the Church much lesse to be sincerely expounded from these premises see what a conclusion he in the 27. page of his discovery inferreth without the power saith hee and practise of the diligent watch of every Member but especially of the Elders the Word of God is made an Idoll the Sacraments sacriledge unto us and all things we do odious and abominable unto the Lord. To this third Objection this answer we give Answ The first part of Christs Discipline which is most subst intiall we have 1. For the works and duties which hee would have performed in the governmēt of his Church are all one in our assemblies Discipline not exercised rightly First whereas the discipline of Christ consisteth in two things viz. what works and duties Christ would have performed for the ordering and government of his Church and by what persons and Officers hee would have these duties exercised We affirme that for as much as all these
same rule that we may mind the same thing whereby it appeareth that with those who hold the foundation wee both may and ought to hold and joyne our selves in the things wherein we are agreed notwithstanding our differences in those things that are not fundamentall By all which it is manifest how false and dangerous a doctrine that is which Henry Barrow in the 28. page of his discovery affirmeth that presumptuous sinne with obstinacie joyned thereunto breaketh the covenant with God if he had said it giveth the Lord just cause to cast us off and to make void that covenant whereby hee had bound himselfe unto us wee would have consented But that the everlasting covenant of God is utterly broken by a presumptuous sinne committed with obstinacie if wee should grant wee should condemne the generation of the just and darken much the glory of Gods Mercie who is constant in love towards those whom he hath receaved into covenant even though they bee many times unconstant and unfaithfull unto him And even as an Husband or wife ceaseth not presently to bee an Husband or wife when they have committed adulterie till by just divorce they bee separated so it is in this case as wee have above said Wee have a true Ministerie IN ENGLAND II. EXCEPTION THe second general exception is against the Ministery of our Church which they affirme to be false and Antichristian Concerning which they have these words in the page 146. and 147. of their refutation wee have perused all this rable of the ministerie of the Church of England and have not found any one of them right or almost in any point according to the right Rules of Christs Testament they are all strangers there they belong us to Christs body His Church neither are they 〈◊〉 is members to the Head And in the 147. page of the same back they â—â— they say that our Minister is such as can have 〈…〉 God alleadging moreover that the wayes if the 〈◊〉 Church 〈…〉 are the wayes of death and have no promise of salves and in the 147. page they have these words Out of the smoake of the Bottomlesse pit all their Ministers come wheâ— that fallen stâ—rre An christ haâ— the Key thereof given him to his Kingdome the false Church they have alwayes belonged alwayes served him in his sever 〈◊〉 shapes they have bin alwayes kâ—it to him as members to the head from him and not from Christ wee all see with our bodily eyes that the Church of England hath received them And in the 158. page of the same book they conclude thus The keeping of these offices cannot now belong unto or serve in Christs Kingdom His Church neither be knit unto Christ as the Head But as the Holy Chost witnesseth of them they have a King over them the Angell of the bottomlesse pit whose name is in Hebrew Abaddon and in Greeke Appollion as in all languages and places they discover ANSWER THat wee have a true Ministerie in this Land But it appeareth that our Ministery is holy and lawfull because the true Church hath received and approved our doctrine Iohn 10.3 5. Ephes 4.11 12 2 Iohn 4.6 2. Many have bin effectually called by our Ministerie And this reason taken from the force of our Ministery and hath force to prove the lawfulnesse of it it may evidently appeare by these reasons A true Church such as we have proved ours to be in our answer to their first exception could neither have received our doctrine at the first nor proved it so long nor have beene continued nourished and built up by it had not wee beene the true faithfull Ministers of Christ Secondly It is evident that many have beene brought by our Ministery to saving knowledge faith and reformation of life For proofe whereof wee appeale first to their owne consciences out of which wee desire them to answer us as in the presence of Almightie God Secondly By the manifest differences that may bee noted betwixt those that have beene taught by a learned Ministerie and those that have bad none who yet should bee in judgement and affection as good or better than the other if the Ministerie under which the other lived were not true and lawfull That this reason taken from the fruit of our labours is sufficient to prove wee are the true Ministers of God As appeareth in this 1. That the Lord in his most holy Word maketh this the most proper note of such ministerie as is according to his owne heart c Ier. 3.15 23 31. Iohn 10.25 Secondly In that the ministerie is oft justified and proved to be of God by this reason So that our Saviour Christ proveth Himselfe to be the true Messiah by doing the workes of the Messiah d Eph 4 11 12 Rom. 10.14 15. so may wee prove our selves true Ministers by doing the workes of God His Ministers To that which they object against this reason 2 Cor. 9.1 2. Rom. 13.17 18. 1 Thes 1.1 9. Mat. 12.5 6. Iohn 5.36 Notwithstanding that it is objected of other meanes viz. that thereby the Popish Church and Ministerie may be justified as well as ours seeing that many have beene converted by private conference and reading and by domesticall preaching and exhortations without a publicke Church alling We answer that though the Lord hath beene often wont heretofore and is able still to convert soules by private meanes and such as are extraordinary Yet cannot it be proved that any have beene converted usually or that publike Congregations have been gathered and builded up by any private interpretations and application of the Scriptures but by such only as hath been use by a lawful ministerie And whereas Henry Barrow excepteth further p. 152. and 153 and of his refutation that this argueth only true doctrine and not a true Ministerie we answer First That thereby he justifieth our doctrine which elsewhere he generally condemneth Secondly That he affirmeth only that true doctrine without a true ministerie doth ordinarily convert men but proveth it not nor indeed was able to prove it as shall hereafter appeare in the answer wee make to the second Article of their consequence But our Ministers have no promise of blessing in their teaching say they and therefore neither may they lawfully teach nor the people heare them To this we answer First Ezech. 3.2 7. That Gods Ministers have lawfully taught when they have not only wanted the promise that their labour should doe that people good whom they did teach but received assurance of the contrary Secondly That the people have lawfully heard Ionah 3.4 â— and hearkened to teachers that have come unto them when they as being utterly ignorant and unaconainted with Gods promises had no assurance to their consciences that God had promised a blessing to their hearing Objection first THe first thing they object against our Ministers Their first objection against our ministers is that the office whereunto our Ministers were called is
it for as it is necessary that this ordinance of God should be sanctified by the Word and prayer so it cannot bee inconvenient that the Word and prayer whereby it is sanctified should be administred by him who in a speciall sort is appointed of God to be the steward and disposer of all his mysteries and to whom in his ministeriall actions greater promises are made than to any other man though hee doe the very same thing And seeing that in these dayes it preventeth many dangerous inconveniences to have marriages blest in the publike congregations who can be thought so fit to speake in the congregation and to bee the month either of the Lord to the people or of the people unto God as is the Minister That which Henry Barrow objecteth in the 123. page of his discovery That he ever tooke Marriage for an Ordinance and an action of the second table and seeth not why we may not as well set up the tables of the money changers or bring in any other civill matters or chaffaire as this into our Church is easily answered for though marriages be a civill action yet is not the blessing of it by the word and prayer civill And as the Magistrates may have a hand in those actions that are Ecclesiasticall and belonging to the first Table even by Henry Barrowes owne confession in the 85. page of the same booke so may the Minister have a hand in those actions that are civill and belonging to the second Table And though Marriages receive life and being from the contract that is made by mutuall consent of parties and Parents privately which is the cause why we doe thereupon according to the Scriptures account them man and wife before they have lyen together yet doth this adde much to the seemlinesse and beautie of that holy ordinance when it is thus made knowne and rightly ratified in the congregation Concerning Courching of women we answer That many of our Ministers doe upon a just dislike of the forme prescribed in the booke and upon feare of nurishing the great superstition that the people for the most part have put in that custome forbeare to use any particular and personall forme of thankesgiving at that time and occasion And yet wee see not how it should simply be unlawfull though very unconvenient to use some form of thankesgiving at that time even with speciall mention of that occasion or how our ministerie should be made void and Antichristian by doing so besides that the booke it selfe tieth no Minister to the forme preseribed but leaveth it to his discretion to use it or any other as that case or occasion requireth Concerning burialls we answer First That many of our Ministers are knowne to refuse the forme of buriall prescribed in the booke Secondly That a Christian Minister may for the honour and seemlinesse of Christian buriall accompany as a Christian with the rest of the Neighbours the body of Christians departed unto the grave Thirdly if the minister use some few words of comfort and exhortation at that time Yea even in that forme that the booke prescribeth though it may prove inconvenient and offensive Yet is there no such impietie in that action that should make his ministerie void or Antichristian Their seventh reason against our office is That we are called to use Antichristian Geremonies whereunto we make this answer That the Ceremonies wherein opinion of Holinesse is or hath beene put many of our Ministers have cast off so that this reason maketh nothing to justifie separation from all our Church Assemblies Secondly Many that use sundry of these Ceremonies doe it because either they judge them things indifferent and such as whereunto the Law of Christian charitie b Rom. 7.15 2 Chron. 20 33. 1 King 2.5.3 Though we all used the most unlawfull Ceremonies that are in our Church Yet might we bee true Ministers Galath 4 9. 2 Kings 14.4 Fourthly Speciallie seeing we are not bound by office to use them Their second Objection against our ministerie is that the entrance in to our Office is Antichristian which insufficient to warrant their separation for First the people are not bound to enquire or see how their Ministers entred Secondly Our entrance may be lawfull though it be not in al points agreeable to the rules of Christs Testament â—esuâ—a p. 127. and the tender regard to the weakenesse of the people doth as they thinke binde them following therein the direction of the Word or else they tollerate them as burdens which it lieth not in them to remove being laid upon them by the determination of the Magistrate and custome of the Church And seeing that they doe in judgement and affection unfainedly dislike that which either through humane infirmitie or in Christian wisdome and to prevent more dangerous inconveniences they are inforced to beare with Wee see not why they may not bee accounted the true Ministers of Christ notwithstanding they use these inconyenient Ceremonies as well as Paul might be judged to be a good Christian though he sometimes did that evill which he hated and Iehosâ—phat a good King though hee indured the high places to continue in Iudah all the time of his government because hee was not able to abolish them And David though he suffered Ioab to live many dayes after he had committed most unnaturall murder because hee was notable without manifest danger to his state to cut him off Thirdly the use of the most unlawfull ceremonies that are amongst us is not of force to make our Ministerie void and Antichristian or our Church for the Galathians were still a true Church though they had received even those impotent and beggerly rudiments which they had once cast off much more wee which cannot bee said to have resumed them as being never yet freed from the bondage of them so was there still a true Church in Iudah when the hill alters and high places were continued there which yet was a greater corruption in the worship of God then the ceremonies whereof question is made can possibly be accounted Fourthly It is no part of our office whereunto we are in ordination called to use any ceremonies as hath beene shewed before The second thing they object against our Ministerie is That the manner of our entrance into the aforesaid office and calling is Antichristian and not according to Gods Ordinance Whereunto wee answer First that the people may lawfully accept us to bee true Ministers whom the Church so esteemeth though they cannot see how we first entred And that by no commandement or example in the Word they are bound to enquire there-into For further proofe whereof we referre out selves unto the answer which wee have made to their first Objection against the whole body of our Church Secondly Though none of those Rules which Christ his Testament hath set downe for the calling and ordaining of our Ministerie can be wanting without a blemish and maime to the calling And consequently they should
be also deposed and restrained from the exercise of our ministerie The fourth Objection against our ministrie is There fourth Objection against our Ministerie is that our maintenance is not according to Christs directions but Iewish and Antichristian which is not of force to condemne our ministerie Because wee may be the true Ministers of Christ although we receave maintenance from all sorts of men That we are not maintained a cording to the direction Christ bath given in his Testament but our maintenance is lewish and Antichristian That this is a principall matter objected against our ministerie appeareth in the fourth page of their Collection of letters and conferences and sundry other parts of their writings And least they should seeme to say it only they bring sundry reasons to prove that our maintenance is such as no Minister of Christ can accept or live by for say yee our Ministers receive maintenance from all sorts of men in their parish without difference This is alleadged in their collection of liberties and page 18. and called in the 145. page of the refutation An execrable sacriledge and covetous making marchandize of the holy things of God a letting out of our selves to hire to the prophan for filthy Lucre. To this first reason they bring against our mintenance this answer we give First That the Christian Magistrate is bound to use his authoritie for the furtherance of the subjects in all things that concerne godlines and honestic and so see that the morall Law bee kept by them whereas therefore the Christian Magistrate in conscience of his dutie hath provided by the Law that all his Subjects should of the increase God giveth them contribute somewhat towards the maintenance of their Minister we may truly be said to receave our maintenance rather from the Magistrate then from the people Secondly the Magistrate may lawfully appoint so much of the Subjects goods as by Law is given to the Ministers maintenance to bee imployed to this or any other good use as is evident by that which the Apostle saith Rom. 13.7 Thirdly the Magistrate may without any shew of wrong compell the subjects to pay this part of their goods which they give to their Minister because in Parliament it was voluntarily bestowed even by the people themselves whose free act that is to be accounted which is enacted and done in Parliament Fourthly It is evident by the Word that the offerings which heathens voluntarily brought and gave to the building and beautifiing of the Temple were accepted of as appeareth in the stories (a) Ezra 1.4 6 Fifthly Seeing the Apostle calleth it our owne bread Mehem 2.8 2 Thes 3.12 wee get by our honest labours (b) Eph. 4.28 and our Saviour saith in this case that the labourer is worthy of his hire (c) Luke 10.7 we may with comfort and good conscience take maintenance of the wicked that live in our parishes for whose sake both publikely and privately we take paines and to whom the benefit of our labour is offered seeing that the Apostle avoucheth (d) 1 Cor. 9.11 that such as sow spirituall things amongst people though God blesse not their feed may lawfully and honestly reape their carnall things Sixthly As for the testimonie of the holy Scriptures which our brethren alleadge in this point wee give this answer unto them To the place Levit. 22.25 we answer First that the meaning is that a stranger being a Proselite might no more lawfully offer any of these uncleane and imperfect sacrifices spoken of in the verses going before then a Jew might Secondly If the unbelieving stranger were meant here yet is there nothing spoken here of the maintenance which should come to the Priests for the intent of the Law in this place is to shew what manner of sacrifices should bee offered to the Lord and not what maintenance Priests should have which is evident both for that the sacrifice is here called the bread of their God and also for that elsewhere the Priests might receave maintenance which might have blemish as in the first fruits and first borne To that place Pro. 15.8 and all such like we answer First that thought the action their spoken of for the substance thereof bee good and lawfull yet as it commeth from them whose hearts are not purged by faith it is indeed abominable in Gods sight as all other the actions of the wicked are Secondly That they abuse this place for it is there meant of the spirituall services of God and not of corporall maintenance and lastly if it were to be understood of the maintenance of the Minister yet should not the Minister sinne in taking it because they sinne in giving it Because by the Law it was provided that all Iewes cleane or uncleane good or bad should pay tythes without exception To the place Phil 4 18. We answer First That he speaketh not there of maintenance due to the ministerie but of the contribution made to the afflicted Saints and to himselfe in particular that had a principall portion in the sufferings of the Saints Secondly if they urge that the maintenance of the Minister is also an odour that smelleth sweet and a sacrifice acceptable to God which nothing that proceedeth from the wicked can be wee referre our selves herein to the answer wee have made to the Prov. 15.8 cited by them to the same purpose Their second reason against our maintenance is Secondly although onr main'enance be fixed and certaine That it is fixed and certaine This is alledged in the 61. page of their Discovery and in sundry other parts of their writings Concerning which we answer First that this can be no good reason against all our Ministers seeing that we have some preach ordinarily and painfully who yet either live wholly of themselves or take nothing of the people but that which they give voluntarily Secondly if it be a great fault to live upon a set stipend yet seemeth it strange unto us that they should account it so great to make a nullitie of our Ministrie Thirdly wee can see no reason why it should be thought either unlawfull or unconvenient to set stipends to be given unto and receaved by the Minister for first under Moses law (a) Deut. 14.22 Numb 35.2.9 Iosh 21.18 c. 2 Chron. 6.64 a certaine and set course was prescribed for the Ministers maintenance and the people appointed what they should give Now if it be said of the manner of the Leviticall maintenance that it was Ceremoniall yet would we fain know what Ceremony or shadow there can be in the certainty thereof Shall we say that together with the Ceremonie it selfe all the equitie also and morall reason is abrogated Secondly as Ezekiel describing the pattern of the new Sanctuarie that should be under the Gospel alludeth unto a certaine and set maintenance that should be given to the ministrie (b) Ezr. 45.1.5 so there be fundry Phraises and Comparisons in the new
is the reason it prevaileth not with any such to their seduction yet unto men of weak judgements and strong affections or of more heat then knowledge it seemeth far otherwise who are not in our judgements to bee contemned and suffered to be so headlongly carried in so violent a course but rather with compassion to be reclaimed and with meeknesse to be restored by such as are spirituall If it please the Lord to give a blessing to their labour so spent and imployed Secondly seeing this Heresie of theirs doth not only seeke to untile the House of God built amongst us nor to breake downe the walls only but even to overthrow the whole fram thereof taking away the Pillars whereon it standeth the preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments Yea digging up the very foundation thereof and taking Christ from us whom as they say wee preach not but denie in all his offices were the false-hood and blasphemie thereof never so apparant yet were not the labour needlesse and superfluous that is spent in confuting thereof Thirdly Seeing this cause hath been thought to be of such weight and regard that it hath brought the High Court of Parliament to make a sharp Law for the preventing of the mischiefes thereof shall it bee thought a matter unnecessary and fruitlesse for Ministers to deale withall especially where Lawes politicke can but draw the outward man to conformitie which is but Hipocrisie unlesse the Law of God be annexed thereunto for the converting of the soule and bringing the inward man to doe that inwardly and sincerely which outwardly it performeth Lastly Wee have the examples of diverse Learned and godly brethren to warrant our doings and to perswade us of the necessitie of this labour who either by commandement from authoritie or of their own motions by occasions offered unto them have dealt not only by disputation and conference but also by writing and printing for the suppression of this Schisme and reclaiming these men For the persons against whom wee write though we hold them all to be in a dangerous estate wee are loath to say in a damnable estate as long as they continue in this Schisme and have cause to feare that Sathans subtilties abusing the gifts that are in them and drawing them to pride and conceit of themselves hath hardened some of them so in their Schisme that they will hardly be reclaimed yet hope we that as many of them have been brought backe againe to the Church who straied away with them so the rest may in time be brought to a sight of their owne error by good meanes effectuall thereunto such as God hath sanctified to that end and promised to accompany with the gracious assistance of his holy spirit This labour therefore of ours we trust shall not be in vaine but have that work in them for their recovery by the blessing of God If God vouchsafe us not this favour to be happy instruments of their good yet doubt we not but he that is witnesse unto our Consciences how we long after their salvation yea even from our hearts roots will be our strength and our judgment and worke shall be with him though they bee not gathered But if it be remembred that our labours have beene bestowed Esay 49.4 5. not only to raise them that are fallen already but also to stay them that stagger and strengthen them that stand upright though it should be utterly unprofitable unto the former sort yet being likely to prevaile with others to their benefit it cannot but be acceptable unto God and comfortable unto our selves and so neither superfluous nor unnecessary This now only remaineth Christian reader that before we commend this treatise to Gods blessing we advertise thee of two things needfull for thee to know First whereas to many rash and hot spirited men it may seeme that wee have dealt in this cause too remisly so that wee have justified the corruptions of our Church as hath beene objected against others heretofore We answer that our dealing may well indeed seem too remisse whilst the reader shall compare it with over bitter untrue yea and slanderous biting and invectives of our Brethren but being compared with it selfe and with our Church as in it selfe it standeth we hope it will appeare sure wee are that our knowledge wee have not justified the least thing therein worthy to be condemned Secondly whereas the worke is somewhat long and therefore somewhat wearisome to the Reader Know that we desired to be much more briefe therein then wee are both for that not the reading so much as the writing of it out by them that after the reading of it may desire it must needs be tedious as also for that fewer words and reasons might have as well satisfied the learned sort but whereas our desire is to satisfie the simple as having more need by framing divers answers unto the arguments and proofes which we confute and to make them plaine to their capacity and understanding wee could not vse more brevitie without more obscuritie And thus we commend thee to God and to his blessing upon the reading hereof that it may be a meanes to teach thee to discerne the things that differ and to keepe thee from thy being overmuch just lest thou become too wicked Amen A Collection of the chiefe Heads of this book I. Certaine exceptions they take and faults they find withus viz. With our I. Church in generall and the whole frame of Our Assemblies which they affirme to bee false and Antichristian because 1. They were not rightly gathered pag. 8. 2. They communicate together in an outward worship of God that is polluted with the writings and inventions of men pag. 12. 3. They want the true discipline of Christ page 17. 4. They submit themselves to false and Antichristian discipline page 19. 5. They obstinately continue in the aforesaid wants and corruptions having beene convinced page 21. II. Ministers whom they affirme to bee false and Antichristian 1. The Office whereunto we are called is not that which Christ hath ordained but that which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto page 28. 2. Their entrance is not according to Christs Ordinance but also Antichristian p. 34. 3. Their administration and exercise of their office is not according to Christs Ordinance but Antichristian formes of prayer p. 39. 4. Their maintenance is Iewish and Antichristian viz. by tythes c. pag. 42. III. People and the private members of our Assemblies whom they say to be such as no true Church can consist of 1. Because they are not a separated people from the world pag. 50. 2. They are not Saints faithfull pag. 51. 3. They tollerate the openly prophan p. 52 Two certaine conclusions which they inferre upon the foresaid exceptions viz. 1. Therefore the Assemblies wee separate from are such as the Scriptures doe warrant us to separate from pag. 57. 2. Therefore the Assemblies we joyne unto are such as the Scriptures doe warrant
us to joyne unto p. 62. THE Church of Engl. is a true Church OF CHRIST I. EXCEPTION THe first Exception is against the whole body of our Assemblies and our Church in Generall which they tearme Babylonish Synagogues and a whorish Idolatrous Church Henry Barrow in his discovery of the false Church Page 24. ANSVVER THat the Church of England is a true Church of Christ Our Congregations are true Churches For Arg. 1. We have and â—oyne together in the use of the preaching of the Gospell and administ ration of the Sacraments and such an one as from which whosoever wittingly and willingly separateth himselfe cutteth himselfe from Christ wee doubt not but the indifferent Reader may be perswaded by these reasons following First Wee enjoy and joyne together in the use of those outward meanes which God in his Word hath ordained for the gathering of a visible Church for proofe whereof wee alleadge that the meanes which we use and enjoy have been effectuall to the unfained conversion of many as may appeare both by the other fruits of faith and by the Martyrdome which sundry have endured that were Members of our Church and had no other meanes of conversion then such as we have Yea even those men who judge so hardly of us now are able to witnesse with us in this case That if their be any true faith and sanctification in them though it bee much increased as they think since they left us yet it was begun and bred in our Assemblies Secondly If these places of holy Scripture Marth 28.20 Eph. s 4.11 14. bee well examined it will bee found that the means which Christ ordained for the gathering of a visible Church are the very same which we enjoy even the preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments That which Henry Barrow saith against us in this point pag. 160. of his discovery viz. that there is not any one thing amongst us either in order or administration according to Christs Testament shall bee hereafter disproved when we shall come to justifie our Ministery of the Word and Sacraments against their arguments or Objection whatsoever Now that this is an infallible and good argument of a true Church appeareth Which is an in fallible note of a true Church because First There cannot any people be named that having these meanes may yet by the word be evicted not to have beene the true Church The Papists indeed bragge of these means but without cause for the doctrine of faith is not preached amongst them but oppugned and consequently they cannot have the true Sacraments which are Seales of righteousnesse Rom. 3.12 9 4. which is by faith Secondly the Scripture every where speaketh of the preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments as of priviledges peculiar to the Church of God psalm 147.19.20 So while the Jenes only were the Church these priviledges were restrained to them Matth. 10 56. and never made common to the Gentiles till the partition wall being broken downe Acts 11.19 23. they also were incorporated to the Church of God So the Prophet saith Arg. 2. that this should be the reason why the Gentiles were moved to joyne themselves unto the true Church because there and no where else the Ministerie of the Word was to be found Secondly Our whole Church maketh profession of the true faith The confession of our Church together with the Apologie thereof and those Articles of Religion which were agreed upon in the Convocation House in the Yeare of the Lord 1562. whereunto every Minister of the Land is bound by Law to subscribe so farre forth as they concerne the confession of faith and the doctrine of the Sacraments doe prove this evidently for how shall wee better judge of the faith which our Church professeth than by such evidence Many Papists and Atheists are in our Land wee grant and many ignorant and wicked men besides who make not so cleere and so holy profession of the true faith as they should but that our Church accounteth any one to be her Child or member who either denieth Christ or professeth any other way to salvation then faith which worketh by love or who doth not professe this faith an some measure we confidently deny Now this reason also hath force sufficient to prove us the true Church for as true faith in Christ is that which giveth the life and being to such as are effectually called and so become Members of the Invisible and Elect Church so the profession of true saith is that which giveth life and being to a visible Church Upon this profession wee finde many that have beene incorporated into the visible Church and admitted to the priviledges thereof even by the Apostles themselves Act 8.37 38. 16.31.32 12. Yea and Simon Magus though he had neither faith nor the spirit of God yet because he made profession of faith was judged a member of the visible Church and baptized So the Church of Pergamus Act. 8 13. Revel 2.12 15. though it did toletate grosse corruptions in it it kept the faith of Christ and denied not his faith and was still called the Church of God The description of a Church which they give in the page 67. See our further answer to this in the defence we make for our people against the second Article of their third exception of their collection of Letters and conferences viz. That it is a company of faithfull people that truly worship Christ and readily obey him is utterly untrue it it be understood as needs it must of the visible Church for it every one that the Church may account a visible member be truly faithfull how is our Saviour to bee understood when he compareth the Church or Ministery to a draw-net which being east into the Sea gathereth as well that which must be cast away as good Fish * Matth. 13.47 48. And to a field where the Devill doth as busily sow tares as the Sonne of Man doth good Wheate * Matth. 13.37 39. or how shall that difference stand which the Scripture maketh betwixt the Lords judgment and the judgment of men if men may not account any members of the Church by their outward appearance and profession 1 Sam. 1617. Acts 13.28 unlesse they know them to have true faith which thing the Lords eye is only able to discerne Thirdly We hold and teach and maintaine against all Heretickes Arg. 3. and adversaries every part and Article of Gods holy truth which is fundamentall and such as without the knowledge and believing whereof there is no salvation Our confessions Catechismes Articles of Religion published and approved of our Church may perswade all indifferent men of this Yet was not Henry Barrow ashamed to write in the 10th page of his discovery That all the Lares of God both of the first and second Table are here broken and forsaken both of the Ecclesiasticall and
It is well knowne not only that many of our Ministers are usually called by such names as the Scripture giveth but also that the Law of the Land in the book of conlecration giveth us the name of Pastors Teachers and Rectors Thirdly Though the names objected against us have beene used by the Papists and therefore are very unfit to bee given to the Ministers of the Gospell Yet see we not that either by their originall or use they have any such contagion in them as should poy son and infect all the offices and duties whereunto they are applyed Fourthly Fourthly Especially seeing they are imposed upon us we delight not in them Gen. 41.45 â—â—or 1.7 8. Though there names were of themselve of Antichristian original and use Yet if they be imposed upon any such as take no pleasure in them we see not how they can any wait 〈◊〉 pollute them and their offices then Ioseph and Daniel were polluted by 〈◊〉 and Idolatrous names that were given them or than private Christians are made the worse by the odious termes of Precisians Purity 〈◊〉 is Martinists or then our brethren themselves are by the names of Brownists and Barrowists which they so usually are called by and so much dislike Fifthly Fifthly Our Doctrines may bee good though wee were all called by and did delight in those names Matth. 23.2 Their third reason that we are called to read stinted imposed prayers if neither the Law nor the people did give us any other names then such as are popish and we also did glory in them our selves Yet makes this nothing to the condemnation of our office and doctrine seeing that though the name of Pharisie were not of divine institution Yet Christ Himselfe giveth approbation to the office of preaching which they exercised Their third reason against our office and function is That we are called to reade stinted prayers that are devised and imposed by men Concerning which they say page 62. of their discovery to the Booke of common prayers all the Priests of the Land are swonn to use it in manner and forme prescribed and in the booke â—s in 〈◊〉 the whole form and substance of their ministrâ—â—â—â—e and in 〈◊〉 3. 〈…〉 book of common prayer is the very ground worke of their faith 〈◊〉 and Ministerie and in place 〈◊〉 them of the Word of God And in the 64 page the Word of God may not be taught but when thâ—â— booke hath first â—eenâ—read and hath had the preheminence To all which was give this answer Is also insufficient for a prescript form of prayer is lawfull Secondly even though it be imposed First that a see and prescript forme of prayer may lawfully be used as we have proved already in our answer to their second objection against out Church Secondly If to have a prescript forme of prayer is lawfull in it selfe we see not how this should make it unlawfull that it is prescribed by the Church authorized by the Christian Magistrate for which we also referre our selves to that answer wee have already given to then second Objection against our Church Thirdly though that by statute the Ministers bee commanded to read prayer Yet doe we denie that is enjoyned as any eâ—â—entiall part of our office seeing that in the fâ—â—â—ie of ordination appointed by Law there is no such thing 〈◊〉 of us 〈…〉 are there only charged with the preaching of the Word prayer and 〈…〉 of the Sacraments and discipline of Christ And that statute which ratifieth the Communion booke respecteth of the substance of our Office but order onely and uniformitiâ—â— Neither doth any Law of our Land deny him to be a true and lawfully Minister which preacheth the word aright though he never reade prayers according to that booke Whereof the practise of our Church is a sufficient proofe wherein there are many Ministers allowed that never medled with that booke and many both Schoole-Masters and others by the Bishops are permitted to reade it publikely though they be not in the account of Ministers And which is more private men may 〈◊〉 Statute reable it in their private houses Their fourth reason viz. that wee are called to read ungodly prayers is also insufficient for 1. We have Ministers that read none of those prayers that for matter or forme can be proved ungodly All which proveth evidently the reading of the Booke of Common Prayer is not taken to be of the substance of our ministerie nor absolutly necessary to the being of a Minister in our Church And therefore we cannot but wonder to read those accusations which are so notoriously known to be false and slanderons in their writings who pretend such love to sinceritie and are so sharpe censurers even of the secret faults of other men Their fourth reason against the office we exercise is That wee are called to reade ungodly prayers whereunto we answer First It is most cleare that many Ministers in our Church use not to reade any of those prayers which you account for the matter ungodly and that therefore this can bee no good reason against all our Ministers Secondly Secondly none are in the ordination called and enjoyned to read such 2 Kings 16.11 If all did use to read them Yet are they not in their Ordination called to reade them as hath beene above proved so that if they reade them the fault is in them and not in the office they exercise Thirdly If they were enjoyned to read ungodly prayers and did accordingly read them this cannot make their Ministerie voyd or Antichristian for then Vriah should have beene no Priest for that he made an Alter at Jerusalem like that in all points which was at Damascus whereas it is evident that he continued the Priest of the Lord still Notwithstanding that great fault which was beyond all comparison greater than this that is in question Their fift reason against our office is That we are called to read Homilies and Injuctions and whereunto we answer First That neither do the most of our Ministers read Homilies Neither doth any law of the Land require that Preachers should read them Secondly If Law did enjoyne them to all and all did read them yet are they not enjoyned in our ordination nor accounted by Law as substantiall parts of our office neither is their any doubt made in our Land no not by them that doe presse the precise observation of Law in this point whether he be a lawfull Minister who doth not read either Homilies or Injunctions Their sixth reason against our office is That we are called to marry burie and Church women To which also we answer First That it is no part of our office whereunto in ordination we are called to doe these things Secondly as the Ministers use to blesse the Marriages that are made in our Land so make we no doubt but that it is lawfull and fit as a matter not of substance but of good order that they should not doe
all of them be carefully sought for both by Minister and people yet may some of them be wanting without losse of the life and being of the calling Neither is that true which they affirme That whatsoever Minister hath not a true and right calling in all points though the office whereunto hee be called be a true office is no true Minister but an usurper an intruder a thiefe and a murtherer For first whatsoever is of the being and substance of the calling to the ministerie hath beene common to all true and lawfull Ministers that ever were in the Church as well as the substance of the Sacraments and discipline and whole Religion hath ever beene one and the same in all places and at all times whereas it is cleere that some of the rules prescribed for the outward calling in the New Testament have not bin alwayes in use and practise throughout Gods Church no not in such ministries as the Word hath given testimonie to for proofe whereof may be alleadged the calling that those Levites and Preachers exercised whereof there is mention made 2 Chron. 17.7 9. For as in diverse other parts of Gods service the omitting and swerving from sundry of Gods holy Ordinances prescribed in the word maketh not the action it selfe void and unlawfull as is evident by that one example 2 Chro. 30.26 17 18 19 so the want and swerving from some rules prescribed for the outward calling of the Ministers cannot be of force sufficient to make their calling void and unlawfull Thirdly Thirdly Our entrance might be lawfull though in some points it were according to some Cannons of Antichrist Their first reason whereby thâ—y condemne our entrance viz. that we were not elect by the people not approved by the Eldership is of no force Though our entrance were according to some of Antichrists Canons yet would not that prove that our ministerie is Antichristian for further proofe whereof wee referre our selves to that answer wee have made to the fourth Objection against the whole body of our Church Their first reason against our entrance is That wee are not chosen by that people over whom wee are set or approved by an Eldership Whereunto we give this answer First that their be sundry of our Ministers in our Church that have beene in times past chosen by a faithfull people and ordained by a true Eldership to the worke of the ministerie at Antwerp Geneva Midlebarough Flushing Stoade Gernsey Against who if this be objected That they were not thus called to any of our Parish Assemblies Wee desire to know by what warrant they can â—â—ee accounted to be 〈◊〉 Ministers now that have given no just cause of deprivation since the time they were so sufficiently called to the ministery Secondly the most of such Preachers as have stood for the cause of Reformation have the very same outward election Secondly manie of the same election and ordination in substance which the word requireth and ordination in substance which the word prescribeth for first their are be ore their entrance sufficient meanes used to know and finde what gifts are in them by disputations and other exercises in divinitie Secondly their gifts are approved by the judgement of sundry learned men of the Colledges and places wherein and whereabout they have beene trained up Thirdly the faithfull that are in those Congregations where they are placed doe either desire them or gladly receive them or at the least by not taking exception to them do even by their silence consent to their entrance or by submitting themselves willingly to their godly directions in all things and profitting in knowledge and Reformation of life by their labours doe manifestly approve of them and set a seale unto their ministerie whereof this may serve for an evident proofe that many Assemblies have both made an earnest fuite for sundry Ministers before their first comming to them And when they have beene molested afterwards And seeing the right that Patrons now have was given them at first by the peoples free consent though ignorantly and unlawfully as wee are perswaded we see not why the choise that the Patron maketh may not be accounted the choice of the people as well as the acts done by the Knights and Burgesses of the Parliament are deemed the acts of the whole commons by whom they were deputed It is evident that by the Law mentioned Numb 30.8 that the silence of the husband or parent that testified not his dislike to the vow which hee understood was made by his wife or child made the said vow of as much force as if his consent had beene requited and given so it is judged in this case of the peoples silence in accepting of their Ministers Thirdly the Law it selfe requireth that wee should have the same election and ordination in substance which the Word of God prescribeth for by the Law First none should be made Minister but at the same time also be should be appointed to some certaine charge Secondly That when any Ministers are to be made there should be knowledge given thereof and that in so publike place and manner that even the people over whom any Minister is to be set may know it and be admitted to take any just exception they can either to his doctrine or life Thirdly There may be some entrance into the Ministerie in substance sufficient where the people at first have not made election nor their consent been required at all as in case where the people have not knowledge of their right or having known it have not been suffered to use it But yet have afterwards yeelded themselves subject thereunto as also in the case aforesaid Numbers 30.8 for further proofe whereof we refer our selves to the answer we have given unto that which they object in generall against our entrance Fourthly Concerning ordination by Eldership this wee answer in particular First that unlesse the eldership be held so essentiall a thing that there can be no true Church without it which we are well assured of that our brethren themselves and all that have any knowledge will denie ordination by the eldership cannot be absolutely necessary albeit in the setled government of a Church we hold it of the essence of the calling of a Minister that we have the substance of the ordination appointed in the Word Fiftly That as in times past so now also there may be in some places such an estate of the Church as wherein no manner of ordination and investing of Ministers hath been or could be used in the giving of an entrance into the Ministerie And though where it may be conveniently had we hold it fit that the weaknesse of the peoples judgement in their choise of their Minister should be supported by the discreet knowledge of the Ministers and Elders that are about them Yet where it cannot be conveniently had as in places where the Gospel is newly planted and far removed from other Churches already established there that
unlawfull for us to yeeld some kinde of obedience to Bishops so doe we performe it in our whole administration by going to their Courts by standing and falling at their commandement Whereunto we answer First that so long as the Christian Magistrate requireth we should yield obedience to the Bishops and that with this limitation viz. only in things lawfull and honest wee thinke it not unlawfull for us to give obedience to them in those things they doe by civill authoritie though neither themselves nor the Magistrate might well require us to doe for even our Saviour Himselfe yeelded obedience to Cesar in such a thing wherein Caesar could not lawfully exact obedience of him as for the excommunication and suspentions Mat. 17.24 27 and such other censures as are meerely Ecclesiasticall We answer As the true Church of God which from the Lord Iesus hath received these keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven did though unadvisedly and unlawfully deliver them over into the hands of the Bishops And the Bishops being Preachers of the Word though they should not have this power wholly committed unto them yet are they capable of it We see not how it should be utterly unlawfull to reverence and yeeld to the censures of Christs Church being exercised and administred even by them unlesse wee will say that the Church presently looseth her right and power to censure Offenders when she committeth it unto any such men as unto whom of right either not at all or not of right only it belongeth Secondly Secondly Not bind our selves thereto by oath so far as we doe Now as wee may lawfully yeeld some obedience to the Bishops in these things so wee may lawfully binde our selves by oath to doe it if our oathes be required or us by the Christian Magistrates anthoririe especially seeing we doe by oath binde our selves to obey in regard of the civill authoritie which is committed to them by the Christian Magistrate Thirdly For our going to their Courts this we answer That seeing we doe testifie in our callings our dislike to the vile and odious corruptions of their Courts And doe also utterly refuse to yeeld obedience to any oâ— their unlawfull decrees we cannot justly bee condemned for appearing intheir Courts or any other place whereunto we are by His Majesties authoritie summoned And whereas the persons before whom wee appeare are judged usually corrupt and enemies to that Reformation which wee desire and some of them also such as being no ministers themselves do by all meanes seeke the disgrace of our calling and the utter discoutagement of such Christians as in whom they perceive any sparkes of true zeale wee account this our appeating at their Courts not onely for an abridgment of our libertie but also for such a burthen as wee have just cause to groane under and to pray that God would in His good time move His Majesties heart to eate us of it And yet as the Apostle being free was content for the Churches sake not onely to become bound in serving it with the labour of his hands but also by subjecting himselse to those Ceremonies which in Christ were abolished so may and ought we for the Churches sake to beare this burden rather than to forsake or refuse the ministerie when the Lord hath called and fitted us unto it For our yeelding to the suspentions and deprivations wee answer That so long as the Bishops suspend and deprive according to the Law of the Land wee account of the action herein Fourthly To cease from the execution of our ministerie when they suspend or deprive us as of the act of the Church which wee may and ought to reverence and yeeld unto if they doe otherwise wee have liberty given us by the Law to appeale from them if it bee said that the Church is not to bee obeyed when it suspends and deprives us for such causes as wee in our Consciences know to be insufficient We answer That it lyeth in them to depose that may ordaine and they may shut that may open And that as he may with a good conscience execute a ministerie by the ordination and calling of the Church who is privie to himselfe of some unfitnesse if the Church will presse him to it so may he who is privie to himselfe of no fault that deserveth deprivation cease from the execution of his ministery when he is pressed thereunto by the Church And if a guiltlesse person put out of his charge by the Churches authoritie may yet continue in it what proceedings can there bee against guiltie persons who in their owne conceit are alwaies guiltlesse or will at least pretend so to be Seeing they also will bee readie alwayes to object against the Churches judgment that they are called of God and may not therefore give over the execution of their ministerie at the will of man And yet admitting it were meerely unlawfull Fourthly If this obedience wee yeeld to them were utterly unlawfull yet may we be true Ministers of Christ notwithstanding upon any respect to yeeld any new obedience at all to the censures of the Bishops yet how will it follow that this our unlawfull yeelding hath force sufficient to make us ipso fasto no true Ministers unlesse you will say that the High Priests who were in Christs time that took and left their offices at the will of tyrants and heathen Princes Were therefore not to be accounted Priests for further answer hereunto we referre the Reader to that which wee have above said to the fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies And to that also which wee have already answered unto the fourth reason which they bring against our office The speech of the Apostls The speech of the Apostles Acts 4.19 20 15. most unskilfully alleaged against us 1 Tim. 6.2 which they are wont to object against us in this case may easily appeare how unskilfully it is alleadged to them that will consider these three differences betweene their case and ours First they that inhibited the Apostles were knowne and professed enemies to the Gospell Secondly the Apostles were charged not to teach in the name of Christ nor to publish any part of the Doctrine of the Gospell which commandement might more hardly bee yeelded unto then this of our Bishops who though they cannot indure them which teach that part of the truth that concerneth the good government and reformation of the Church yet are they not only content that the Gospell should bee preached but are also preachers of it themselves Thirdly The Apostles received not their calling and authority from men (c) Galath 2.1 nor by the hands of men but immediately from God Himselfe and therefore also might not bee restrained or deposed by men whereas wee though we exercise a function whereof God is the Author and we are also called of God to it yet are we called and ordeined by the hand and ministerie of men and may therefore by men
of the people require tenths of his people to the maintenance of the ministerie of which as wee have said before he is bound to have a more speciall care and regard then of the maintenance of the warres or any other civill estate Their fourth reason against our maintenance is Fourthly Although we bee maintained by offerings and mortuary That it ariseth from popish offerings and mortuaries Concerning which wee answer as followeth First Their be sundry of our Ministers that receive none at all against whose Congregations and Ministers this reason cannot hold and many even of them to whom the Law alloweth offerings have refused them that were accustomed to bee given at the Churchings and burialls and such other as the receiving whereof they see would bee likely to nourish superstition in the people Secondly If all did receive and live by offerings we see not what pollution can come to their ministerie thereby for why may not that creature of God which was first given to profane and superstitious uses bee now lawfully translated to the maintenance of Gods service seeing that even under the Law translation was lawfull when for a Ceremony to shadow what detestation the people of God should beare to the manners of the heathen and how they should be separated from them Many things were made uncleane to the Iewes that are not so to us So also the Iron and Brasse Silver and Gold of Jericho a Iosua 6.24 was put into the treasure of Gods house as appeareth in the story of Joshuab And David dedicated unto the Lord the brasse and silver and gold of all the Nations that he subdued as may also appeare by Samuel b 2 Sam. 8.11 Now if those goods that were not onely put a part to an Idolatrous use by a civill institution but also actually abused to Idolatrie might yet lawfully bereceaved for the maintenance of the true service of God how much more may the mony wee receave for offerings c. be lawfully taken and enjoyed by us seeing whatsoever originall the money and institution had yet was it never applyed to any Idolatrous use Thirdly If those offerings were polluted things yet are they too accidentall to overthrow the very being and nature of our ministerie Our People may beaccounted Members of a true visible CHURCH III. EXCEPTION THeir third generall exception is against our people and the private Members of our Assemblies Whom they affirme to be such as no true Church of God can consist of ANSWER THe reasons amongst us to account of people Our people say they are such as cannot be members of a true Church But we have good reasons to account our people holy true Members of the visible Church for the members of the true Church are these First We know many in whom we thinke we doe discerne infallible notes of an unfained conversion Secondly That all that are by many of our Ministers admitted to the Sacrament and other the priviledges of the Church are such as can give account in some true measure of their faith and doe not only generally professe obedience but when they are convinced of any particular sin they are also willing to professe parricular sorrow and purpose of amendment Thirdly many of those who are wicked and ignorant wee cannot see just cause to account them wilfully ignorant nor obstinately rebellious and therefore we may lawfully esteeme them brethren 2 Thâ—s 3 14 â—â— notwithstanding their ignorance and sin and this we thinke the Apostles owne words will warrant us to doe Fourthly our people in generall professe the true faith and obedience of Christ which makes them members of the â—â—ole Church as wee have already proved and if an being dealt with according to the rule that Christ prescribeth shall bee found wilfull and obstinate in his ignorance and sin 〈◊〉 18.15 17 then as he ceaseth to professe the true faith and obedience of Christ So may wee by the Lawes of our Land cease to account him a member of our Church The first thing they object against our people is this Their first reason against our people is that thâ—â—r can no separation bee discerned amongst them but the consist of all â—oâ—â—s Which reason â—s fâ—lse and insufficient That the ignorant and prâ—phane multiâ—u le as they are confusedly by our Baptisme maâ—â—e memberâ— of our Church and admitted to all other th priviledges thereof so is there no separation say they to be observed amongst them in their ordinary conversation concerning which matter these are their own words in the ninth page of their discovery All the prophane and wicked of the Land Atheists Papists Anabaptists Heretickes of all sorts gluttons riotous blasphemous c. and who not that dwelleth in this land or is within the Kings-dominions all without exception are received into and nourished in the bosome of this Church with the Word and Sacraments none are here refused none are here kept out Wherunto we answer First 〈…〉 â—2 â—1 â—2 53. 〈◊〉 14.4 17 4 5. That even by the preaching of the Word that separation which the Scripture so much commendeth is wrought and evidently to be discovered amongst the people of our Land and very many of our people there be that doe carefully shunne the private familiaritie of all notorious offendors Secondly As all our Ministers may by Law so many of them doe keepe from the Lords Table every ignorant person and notorious offend or Thirdly Many of our Ministers doe refuse to receive such into the Church by Baptisme whose Parents will not make a confession of true faith and obedience to Christ Neither doth publike authoritie of Law enforce us to receive any mans Child against whom it may be manifestly proved that he professeth not the true faith Fourthly children may lawfully bee admitted to baptisme though both their Parents bee profane if those who are in the stead of Parents to them doe require baptisme for them and give their promise to the Church for their religious education seeing they may bee lawfully accounted within Gods covenant if any of their ancesters in any Generations were faithfull a Exod. 20.5 Their second Objection against our people is that none of them be accounted holy faithfull because they obey not Christ nor practise his ordinances Which is also false and insufficient for first themselves know many of our people to be such as have religiously reformed their owne persons and families and carefully sought the reformation of the Church The second thing they object against our people is That the best of them are without true faith because they live not in obedience of Christ set up among them nor practise his Ordinances Whereunto wee answer First It is a most rash and presumptuous judgement to denie them amongst us to bee a faithfull people of whom these our brethren themselves doe know that they have by the hearing of the Word beene brought to such a faith as bath beene effectuall
their separation concerne only the avoyding and taking heede of false Prophets blinde guides hypocriticall and prophane deceivers and therefor they can with no peace to their consciences ground their separation upon them till they have sufficiently proved that not some of our Ministers but all are not only faultie in their practise but teach also unsound and corrupt doctrine which they will never bee able to prove The third sort of their Testimonies b 2 Cor. 6.14.18 â—evel 18.4 doe indeed partly concerne that separation which Christians should make from Idolatours in the service of God yet doe they no wayes serve to justifie this their separation from us unlesse they could prove which they are not able to doe that those Assemblies which these Scriptures command a separation from were in the profession of truth equall to us or that the corruptions which are amongst us are equall unto such as were in those Assemblies Besides these test imonies they seeke by two reasons to prove the necessitie of their separation from us whereof the first is taken from the burt that may come to the true Christian by communicating with the wicked The other from the hurt he may doe to the wicked with whom he doth communicate Concerning the first they have these words in the 97. page of their refutation A little Leaven leaveneth the whole lumpe so one openly unworthy received to the Lords Supper maketh all the Communicants guiltie And in the 34. page of their discoverie The knowne and suffered sinne of any one member is contagious to all such as communicate in Prayers and Sacraments with such an obstinate offender and maketh them as guiltie in Gods sight as he himselfe is Whereunto we answer First That we have already proved by many examples in the answer wee have above given unto the last thing they object against the people and private members of our Church that the godly receive no contagion from the wicked with whom they are inforced to communicate in the true worship of God Secondly That their assertion may by reason appeare evidently to be most absurd for if the presence of the wicked should of its own nature make the action of the Sacrament and prayer voyd and of none effect to the faithfull that communicate with him then should we never without great doubting and wavering communicate in those holy exercises in such a Congregation where all that we joyne with are not well knowne unto us for feare their should bee in the company some open offendors whom our selves know not of If our knowledge and privity to his sin be the thing that maks his presence contagious to us especially when we haye admonished him a Ezec. 18.20 and by all meanes testified our dislike to his sinne so farre as in us lyeth Then how is the Prophet to bee understood when he saith the wickednesse of the wicked shall be upon his owne head but admit this was granted that the presence of the wicked in prayer and Sacrament did infect the godly how will they excuse their refusall to heare the Word preached in our Assemblies seeing it is so cleere by the Apostles speech b Cor. 14.24 25. that the preaching of the Word might be of force to doe them good though some that joyned with them in the hearing of it were Infidels To their second reason wherein they pretend a charitable regard of us who by their joyning with us in Gods worship may be hardened in the likeing of our corruptions and by their separation may happily be brought to Repentance We answer that the godly man who hath reproved the open offender shunned his private familiarity and hath gone so farre in testilying his dislike to his sinne as the bounds of his calling will permit is no way accessary to his sinne nor hath any fellowship with the unsruitfull workes of darknesse c Ephes 5.11 and if that any wicked man will imagine that the godly doe not much dislike him because they will not for his sake shun the publike worship of God it is an offence taken and not given and therefore such as wherewith the conscience of a godly man need not to be troubled Thus have we answered that which they pretend for the warrant and necessitie of their separation from our Assemblies And now least any should be justly offended by thinking that in this apologie we make for our Church wee doe any way plead for Baal or seeke to daube up the breaches of our Church with untempered morter and so runne our selves into the danger or that curse which the Lord denounceth against them that cal darknesse light and speake good of evill We therefore freely confesse that there are indeed in our Church great corruptions and that is the great sinne of our Ministers that they doe not with so much zeale and courage reveale and shew their distike of them and of our people that they mourne not nor seeke by all homble and earnest meanes to God and the Magistrate for Reformation of them as they ought to doe And yet though many in this Land doe both know and mourne and make knowne also in their callings their great dislike unto those corruptions that are amongst us as much as any of these brethren with truth can doe we dare considently affirme that the corruptions of our Church are not such as for which an Christian may make separation from us and that we are hereby induced to avouch because wee finde that in the Old and New Testament as hath beene above said as many and as hainous corruptions to have beene in such Assemblies as from which no separation was ever taught or practised Secondly Though we did grant that upon warrant of some places that they bring there might lawfully upon due regard of some circumstances a separation be made even from our Assemblies yet do we affirme that for as much as they have failed in sundry of those circumstances that therefore their seperation is utterly unjustifiable for wheras they could not with any just warrant to their consciences seperate themselves from us till they bad found us obstinate in our corruptions and temptuous scorners of all good meanes used for reforming us as is evident by the example of such separations as are commended in the Word (d) Acts 13.45.46 and 19.8 9. we affirme that they have departed from us before they could with any charitie or good conscience be so perswaded of us And this we doubt not to prove to their owne consciences and to all that know them well by these reasons following First they separated themselves from us before that either by writing or any competent meanes they had soundly convicted us or manifested unto our judgement the dangerous errors we held wherein they have manifestly transgressed the rule of the word (a) Act. 19.3.9 2 Tim. 4.2 Tâ—â— 1.10 11. and 3.10 we grant indeed the truth and necessitie of the government of Christ prescribed in the word which hath beene
sufficiently manifested to the Church and that our Church hath beene sufficiently convinced of many grosse corruptions but that for the want of some parts of discipline our Church should be no Church or that for the corruptions amongst us our Ministers should be no true Ministers or our people no faithfull people which are the very fundamentall principles of their Schisme and almost the very matter of difference betwixt them and us In these points wee deny that either to this day they have sufficiently convinced us or that before the first time of their separation they had in any measure used meanes to convince us Secondly after they had convicted us in Judgement they should have by brotherly admonition and exhortation sought to perswade us unto the love and practise of the truth revealed and to the hatred and forsaking of the manifested corruptions (b) 2 Thes 3.14.15 Tit. 3.10 Heb. 10.15 which is evident they did not before their separation Thirdly the Scripture forbiddeth the Church to eject a private member till in all patience and long suffering his repentance hath been waited for and the fruit of the aforesaid meanes expected (c) 2 Thes 3.14.15 2 Tim. 2.24 25 and 2 Tim. 4.2 which evidently reproveth their hastie and sudden departure from us either before or suddenly after they had used the meanes abovesaid especially seeing that in all reason more long-sufferance should be vsed by such private members as they were toward a whole Church than by a whole Church towards private members Fourthly whereas they should have used all the meanes abovesaid in meeknesse humilitie and love mourning also for the hardnesse of our hearts whereby the meanes became frustrate unto us d Ephes 4.15 2 Tim. 2.25 Tit. 3.2 Heb. 10.24.25 It is evident that their zeale in dealing against us hath beene like the rash and undiscreet zeale spoken of and reproved in the sons of Zebedeus e Mar. 3.5 Luke 9.55 And hath favoured altogether of uncharitablenesse and not of love for as all they that once have declined to that Schisme are found to be exceedingly proud and disdainfull to wards all that are contrary minded yea even such as before they were infected with that leaven were patternes of all love modesty and humility unto others so will they not acknowledge nor reverence any of the most excellent graces that God hath given unto any of his servants amongst us nor so much respect them as the very Papists will doe no they professe greater detestation and despite to the most godly and most sincere men amongst us then they doe to such as are most notorious in profannesse and malice to the truth To which purpose also wee desire that the spirit whereby Henry Barrow was directed in writing his last bookes may be well examined Fiftly whereas by the equitie of the rule which our Saviour himselfe giveth and according to the practise of the Apostolike Church wee should have had our corruptions made knowne to some other Reformed Churches and by them we should have beene convinced and admonished before these our brethren could rightly judge us as heathens and publicanes we affirme that they as if the Word of God had come out from them or had come unto them onely have by their disorderly separation not onely despised and robbed us of our right but all other christian Churches in the world besides Sixtly they have not so much as protested the cause of their separation from us to the particular Congregations whereof before their departure they were accounted by others and did also acknowledge themselves to be members Seaventhly those of them which once exercised the places of the Ministrie amongst us and received for the same the reward due which they call Balaams wages have not before or since their departure made actuall restitution of that which was if their opinions be true most unjustly received nor yet shewed themselves willing so to doe to their abilitie which norwithhstanding by the law of God they are most strictly bound to doe The scond Article in their conclusion is this That the Assemblies which they goe and joyne themselves unto are such as the Word of God commandeth them to goe unto whereunto we give this answere That if they had followed the direction of Gods Word when they had left us for our coruptions and wants as they charge us with they should have joyned themselves to some other Reformed Churches which are pure from our corruptions and amongst whom the discipline of Christ is rightly established as we finde the faithfull Levites and people did in the dayes of Iiroboam and every wise hearted Christian will hold it to be a reason of great force against them that they have made separation not from us onely but from all other Reformed Churches in the world For there by they appeare to have beene of this judgement that till they arose there was not a true coÌ„stituted visible Church in the whole world knowne unto them unto which they might have joyned themselves Secondly the Assemblies which they erected and joyned themselves unto if they be looked into with a Christian and indifferent eye shall well appeare to be much more deformed than many of those are which they have for saken for proofe whereof we desire the Readers to weigh well with the weights of the Sanctuary and to try by the touchstone of the Word certaine points of doctrine which they have both brewed and broached to the world in their printed Books Then secondly their practise and dispositions All their Paradoxes and absurd opinions we will not set downe but in some few we will give the Readers a taste of the rest In the 138. page of their discovery they affirme That such an Idolatrous shape cleaveth to every stone of our Materiall Charches as by no meanes can be severed from them while there is a stone left standing upon a stone so that neither they can be used to the worship of God nor we have any use of them seeing that they are execrable and devoted to destruction In the 167. page of the same booke they teach That to every Christian God hath given his boly sanctifying spirit to open unto them and to lâ—ade them in to all truth Much like unto this is that which they wright in the 161. page of their refutation That it is an execrable position to say that the Church and every member thereof is in some spirituall bondage to sinne Touching the Magistrates authority besides that by the whole tenour of their writings it appeareth that they hold the people may take in hand the publike Reformation of the Church and erect the whole discipline not only without but contrary to the Christian Magistrates liking and consent they doe also directly affirme page 218 and 219. of their discovery That God hath in the holy Scripture made most perfect and necessary Lawes both for the Church and Common-wealth and that he requireth of the King and Magistrase to see their
Testament used by Christ and the Apostles from which the same may be very probably gathered to be lawfull and fit as when the Ministers maintenance is compared to the wages and hire of a servant (c) Luke 10.17 2 Tim. 5.18 and when it is compared to the souldiers pay (d) 1 Cor. 9.7 which both things are certaine and set Thirdly it standeth with sound reason that the Ministers maintenance should be certaine For first seeing it is already proved that a sufficient maintenance must necessarily be given to the Minister of the people how can it be unlawfull either for the people by their owne promise or for the Magistrate by law to binde them unto that which they should voluntarily do of themselves Secondly by this kinde of maintenance sundry of the peoples infirmities as their grudging to give ought when it is in their power to give or not to give their base estimation likewise of the Minister and looking for civill dutie at his hand and many other such like are best prevented Yea we deny that ever any Church was so well informed wherein the most part of the people had not need to have such infirmities restrained in them by the wisedom and authority of the Christian Magistrate Touching the places of Scripture (e) 1 Thess 2.5 1 Tim. 6.8 Iude 11.13 in this point alleadged by them we give this answer First that they condemne onely the covetousnesse of men and not the set maintenance of Ministers which may be receaved without covetousnesse Secondly if they will enforce these places against set payments to the Minister they may as well enforce them against all set payments to the Prince to the servant to the labourer or any other Thirdly if not then seeing the Apostles rule (a) Tim. 5.8 doth concern even the Ministers as well as others why should it be thought covetousnesse in him to provide a certaine and set maintenance for himselfe and his family more then the same care is in any other Christian To the place Mat. 10. we say that the Commandment which our Saviour Christ gave there to his disciples was temporary and concerned that especiall voyage onely wherein for their incouragement to the Ministry our Saviour assureth them that they should not need to feare the want of maintenance for he would supply that extraordinarily as it were by his especiall providence in inclining the hearts of men to maintaine them And that this is so may appeare by these reasons Verse 7.8 First if it be a perpetuall rule we may thence gather 1. that the Minister ought now to have no abiding place neither two coates two paire of shooes nor a staffe neither that they may possesse any thing of their owne Secondly they then received their gifts of preaching and working of miracles freely without cost and therefore were bound from covenanting for stipend to dispence those gifts receaving no more then for their present necessitie of food and raiment which cannot be so said of those whose bringing up in learning is costly and whose study is painfull Thirdly by the commandement which our Saviour Christ giveth (b) Luke 22.35 36. 1 Cor. 96 7. Matth. 20. for provision for themselves And that which Paul challengeth it is evident that the restraint given Mat. 10. was but temporarie yea ad mit it might be proved from hence that no set maintenance were given to the Ministers during the Apostles time which cannot be yet followeth not that there should be none Now seeing that the Church was then without those nourishing fathers which the Lord promised by the Prophet (c) Esay 49 23 â—â— without whose authoritie wee see not how that order for forced maintenance could be taken Neither doubt we to acknowledge even this for a speciall fruit of that blessing promised to come to the Church by Christian Magistrates whereas they said that whatsoever is given to the maintenance of Gods Service should be free and voluntarie and alleadge for that these places Exodus 15.2 2 Cor. 8.12 2 Cor. 9.5 7. we answer That the bond of the peoples promise and Magistrates Law is no hinderance to the freedom and voluntarines seeing the service and obedience of David was free and voluntary Notwithstanding the vow and oath hee bound himselfe with Psal 119.106 Nâ—bem 10.38 So was that also which is mentioned in Nehemiah for if Covenanting should take away the voluntarinesse of the act then should it not bee lawfull to covenant with servants and labourers or any other Yea the Lord our God doth binde Himselfe by Covenant to give that reward to the faith and obedience of his servants which yet he giveth most freely and voluntarilie The third reason they alleadge against our maintenance Thirdly Although we bee maintained by Tythes Is this That we are maintained by Iewish tythes and concerning which they have these words In the 60. page of their discoverie It is evident who are thus maintained by those Iewish Tythes and offerings are not the ministers of Christ and a little after these Priests and people still retaine the Leviticall decimations in the same forme to the same ends And page 16. I could never see any difference betweene the Iewes and them save that the Swine-heards tythe-Pïgges and Geese c. To all which wee thus answer First It is evident that the tythes are not held amongst us by vertue of the Leviticall Law but only by the positive Law of our Land for proofe whereof these reasons following may be sufficient First If this kinde of maintenance were given to the Minister for conscience and obedience to that Law why should not the first fruits also offerings and diverse other things which by a plaine commandement were due to the Leviticall Priest-hood bee given us as well as tythes Secondly The manner of tything which in diverse parts of our Land is diversly used and which through custome also is many wayes altered proveth that paying of tythes amongst us is not according to the Leviticall Law nor in religeous obedience thereunto Thirdly The Law by consent of the states in the Parliament having alenated the tythes in many places from the Minister unto the Prince and other men doth thereby declare that it appointeth not the paying of the tythes by vertue of the Law of God Fourthly Sundry of our Ministers are and that even in the judgement of our whole Church lawfully by other meanes maintained then by tythes which is also a plaine demonstration that both the Leuiticall Law is not held to be in force with us and if it were wee might yet have some true Ministers in our Land notwithstanding Secondly As the Prince without any shew of Jewish superstition may require of the Ministers first fruits and tenths and of all the rest of the subjects fifteenes and subsidies for the maintenance of the wars and other civill purposes so doubt we not but he may as well especially by act of Parliament which is also the act